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Melmetal’s brief appearance in Monotype so far has shown the council that it is the best candidate for the new generation's first suspect test. Melmetal boasts the third highest Attack stat in the tier and a physical bulk that puts even fully defensive Toxapex to shame. Its enormous HP offsets its rather poor Special Defense, enabling it to survive hits from even the tier's strongest wallbreakers including Choice Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump. While mono typing is ironically subpar most of the time in Monotype, Melmetal being immune to poison means it has no fear of Toxic Spikes or Toxic from a wall. Even though its Speed is irredeemable, its bulk makes it very difficult to 2HKO even with multiple Pokemon working together, and most defensive Pokemon will hardly even scratch Melmetal, giving it many opportunities to fire off its powerful attacks.
This incredible survivability is backed by one of the strongest attacks in the metagame: Double Iron Bash, which has an effective 120 Base Power that is further boosted by STAB and Iron Fist. Melmetal also comes fully equipped with excellent coverage options in the form of Thunder Punch, Earthquake, and Superpower allowing it to break the few walls that can survive Double Iron Bash like Toxapex, Corviknight, Torkoal, and Ferrothorn. Its Attack is so high that even if Toxapex luckily gets a burn with Scald, Melmetal is still capable of 2HKOing it with Facade. Due to this, the council has voted to suspect Melmetal to assess its presence in Monotype.
Feel free to post in this thread with your thoughts on Melmetal in Monotype. You are encouraged to post replays to prove your point.
In order to cast a vote in this suspect test, you must participate on the [Gen 8] Monotype ladder in which Melmetal will continue to be allowed. You must make a new account to ladder with. This account's registration date must be at earliest the day this suspect begins. You must prefix your account name with the tag: MSG8 in order for your account to qualify.
Acceptable:
MSG8 Eien
Unacceptable:
Eien MSG8
The requirement for qualification is at least 80% GXE and at least 45 games played. The suspect test will last two weeks until Sunday March 29 at 11:59 EDT (GMT-4 NOTE DAYLIGHT SAVINGS). You will then have three days to cast your vote. Melmetal will require a 60% majority of voters in favor of banning it in order for it to be banned from Monotype.
Upon meeting the requirements, you must post proof of the qualification in the Voter Identification thread, which is separate from this thread and will be created closer to the end of the suspect. Do not post your proof in this discussion thread.
You may use this thread to discuss this Melmetal suspect or ask for clarification for any questions you may have.
You may not use this thread to post one-liners or discuss topics unrelated to this specific suspect, such as possible future suspects.
Please stay respectful when you post and follow all Monotype forum rules. Please also make sure to follow the Monotype tiering philosophy found here.
He's not that OP. He has very bad Sp.Def and he's really slow. Really strong Special attackers can easily take him down.
He's kind of a one trick pony tbh. Slow, bulky and has a strong attack.
Although Melmetal is not broken, it has not lead to a healthy meta game. It isn’t over centralized, but it is definitely not the type of Pokémon that I want in the Monotype meta game. The role that melmetal plays in certain matchups is that of a nuke that will almost certainly destroy whatever Pokémon the opponent chooses to sacrifice. For some types there is no playing around Melmetal once it gets a safe switch in; you just need to sacrifice a Pokémon and bring in your check. Many lower powered matchups come down to strategically trading off your Pokémon to bring in the one or two good Pokémon you have for the opposing type. Melmetal destroys this dynamic by consistently limiting the number of Pokémon the opposing team has due to the nature of attempting to beat it. Melmetal’s signature move, Double-iron Bash, means that not even Focus-sashed Pokémon can attempt to play the hit and sacrifice game against it. Although this dynamic is not present in all type matchups, the number that are represented by it make monotype look bad.
Instead of broken or over centralized, I think the correct way to classify melmetal is generally uncompetitive. I would love to hear what others have to say about it’s role in the current meta game, because I definitely didn’t give a full picture of how it plays. I think that if people can understand what it actually does, then people will be able to come to a similar conclusion.
I have mixed thoughts about Melmetal.
One the one hand, it is like someone mentioned before: a one-trick pony. At best, it’s a strong wallbreaker and that’s it.
It is actually a wasted slot imo. It doesn’t provide good synergies in the team building process, it is usually banded rn so you can play around it pretty easily. It has subpar spd, which means it can be killed by special wall breakers, provided enough chip dmg.
On the other hand, though, the problem is that steel as a type is so strong rn that maybe that is why Melmetal seems kinda op. Now it has everything: an immunity to fight through Aegi, a good ground immunity in Corvi (which, unlike Skarmory or Celesteela, it has many good sets), a decent sr setter in duraludon, good def with ferro, speed control through exca or jirachi. Too many strong mons that you have a lot of flexibility to create good cores, even TR steel is viable.
Rn the only real weakness to steel is fire, but fire as a type sucks, and good fire coverage is limited in other types (subplot hydreigon or venu under sun really scares steel).
If we had another meta, Melmetal shouldn’t even be suspected, but rn Steel is the best type hands down. So any measure that aims to balance the meta is always welcome.
For these reasons, I say ban Melmetal.
I say do NOT ban Melmetal A346186B-F20A-4F23-BC4A-42A50A3A3283.gif
Yes,Double Iron Bash is quite a force,but Melmetal practically cant get the flinch except on slow walls.Even with Jolly+ 252 Spe+ Scarf,it still fails to flinch things like Darm-Galar-Zen.It is both horrible and awesome.While it is a hard-hat guy,it is one of the worst pokemon so I say MM stays
Although Melmetalis not broken inside of the metagame, it's very hard for certain types to prepare for a Melmetal. Fairy has no chance at defeating Melmetal and its signature-move Double-Iron Head Bash unless you are running Specs Fire Blast Togekiss, which isn't even a set. Otherwise, it breaks through Substitutes, Mimikyu's Disguise, and Physical Attackers like Grimmsnarl. Melmetal is not healthy in general inside of the metagame however it is defeat-able, yet it is detrimentally unpredictable and outrageous enough attempting to prepare for something that can be so abusive. Steel will "steel" be good with Aegislash, Corviknight, Excadrill, Lucario, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, Bisharp, and Durant.
I know everyone has been waiting to hear my expert, unbiased opinion on this subject matter, and I apologise for taking this long. If I end up getting around to completing the suspect test I will be voting ban on Melmetal, probably, maybe... Honestly the mon isn't as good as it is in OU, and certainly not as broken as everyone, including me, thought it was in the week or so after it came out. But it is incredibly aids and just generally not fun to play against. Banded Melmetal basically 2hkos the entire metagame with either Double Iron Bash or one of its coverage moves and even resistances aren't safe, with only the likes of Toxapex and Ferrothorn able to take more than 2 DIB's, and both of them get eaten by one of Melmetal's coverage moves. Of course I haven't even mentioned its incredible physical bulk and more than serviceable special bulk which allow it to take ridiculous amounts of punishment like a Galarian Darmanitan flare blitz or a +6 shadow claw from Mimikyu and even a choice banded Dracovish fishious rend. Keldeo needs to run focus blast just to ohko it and we all know how reliable that is... So ban the dickhead and let me use the better looking trick room sweeper pls
One of the cool things about Monotype is that even if you have a type advantage, you can still win. But with Melmetal, if you're unfortunate enough to have been using a team weak to steel, and the opponent brings a Melmetal, that's pretty much it. Most of the top threats in ice are physical, and with Melmetal's bulk, even an Adamant Galarian Darmanitan can't OHKO with Flare Blitz with out a crit or multiple hazards. The rock type is also very physical, and banded Tyranitar only 2HKOs with Earthquake. The fairy type doesn't do much better either, with their best bet being Gardevoir, who can OHKO it with a specs Focus Blast, but it can't switch in safely, which means something has to die first. Not to mention the fact the Focus Blast doesn't have the best accuracy, so after sacrificing a mon, there's still a chance that is too large for comfort that your efforts will have gone to waste. All the mons I mentioned are easily OHKO'd by Double Iron Bash among other moves Melmetal carries for coverage. Even if a mon doesn't drop dead from it's 143 base attack, Adamant, full attack investment, banded, STAB, Iron Fist boosted, basically 120 base power attack, there is still an absurd flinch rate of approximately fifty one percent if you happen to be slower than it, which, granted, isn't very likely given it's 34 base speed. I can't imagine fighting against this beast in TR. This is simply too much.
In brief, I believe Melmetal discourages the use of certain types due to it's utter destruction of anything weak to its attacks, namely Double Iron Bash. I say ban.
(However, I probably made some mistakes in this, so I could totally be wrong.)
Wow, I haven't posted in the Monotype Threads, since like Gen 6 Medicham but lemme talk about how dangerously THICC Melmetal is.
1. The BIG BOY Stats: 135 HP / 143 Def / 65 SpD; Terribly slow at 34 (but here's that TR mention someone can cover better than me).
1.a. Notably, Melmetal can live and retaliate the following:
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 351-416 (74 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 298-352 (62.8 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 272-322 (57.3 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Hustle Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 255-300 (53.7 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Zeraora Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 226-268 (47.6 - 56.5%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 288-338 (60.7 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 266-314 (56.1 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 396-468 (83.5 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Mew Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 240-284 (50.6 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 304-358 (64.1 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 396-468 (83.5 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 321-380 (67.7 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Melmetal: 341-403 (71.9 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Melmetal: 370-436 (78 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Melmetal: 390-460 (82.2 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It also lives Band Durant, Band Dracovish, but doesn't always OHKO in return. Keldeo needs to be like Focus Blast lol.
1.b. Not the greatest SpD, but it's HP makes it reasonable enough where running Assault Vest is plausible to stay in against threats such as Specs Dragapult, Specs Flygon, LO Modest Sun Weather Ball Venusaur, +2 Hydreigon (not LO/EBelt), etc.
1.c. Due to how CHONK Melmetal it is, it feels almost necessary to sack a mon in order to fully defeat it sometimes. You can say Dracovish has similar gameplay, but Dracovish does not have the 143 Atk to boast and its requirement to always go first to actually make use of the move.
Melmetal does have its checks, but the man is going to take significant damage off something whether that be Seismitoad/Quagsire/Gastrodon or the Rotom-Heat switching in. Slower defensive pivots such as Corsola-Galar, Toxapex, etc. might either have to fear the Double Iron Bash's 51% Flinch or getting to 50% off Melmetal's other moves of Earthquake, Thunder Punch, Superpower, or Rock Slide.
I wouldn't say Melmetal isn't broken or overcentralized either, but it's just unenjoyable to go against, so I'm leaning Ban.
There are 4 Main point of discussion for Melmetal:
1. His physical bulk
2. The Raw power & lack of switch ins
3. The Luck biased aspect of Double Iron Bash
His physical bulk is indeed impressive, but it isn't godlike when you factor in it's lack of recovery & easy chippability. Volt-pivoting into his aforementioned weak spD incredably weakens his ability to take hits from either side, and there are definately pokemon that can okho or ko with the proper chip damage. Banded Excadrill, Crawdaunt, Mamoswine, Diggersby Darmanitan (G & regular), Arcanine, Barresqewda Sirfecth'd & Haxorus are huge threats to Melmetal, even with the absurd hp & def. And while the argument could be made that it's special defense is offset by it's Hp stat, I can calm assert that any boosted SE special move WILL OHKO banded melmetal. Scarf Zard, specs Salazzle & Chandelure, Specs Dragapult (Chance), Keldeo in Rain OR Focus Blast ( not as run), Seis, nasty plot hydrei, Alolachu, Ninetails, & Togekiss all have the potential to OHKO Melmetal with the standard 4 spD.
Band Melmetal is indeed a threat. capable of OHKOing or 2HKOing most 'Frail' pokemon, and even dishing out damage to mons considered bulky. however, the problem with band is, and always will be, the lock move. while melmetal has the movepool to hit everything, after it clicks it's choice, you have the power to send in a mon that either walls, shut downs, or set ups on melmetal in it's entirety. Sash Diggersby SD's and OHKO's with quake or can predict the corvi and press Fire punch to either kill corvi, or to dish a 75% to non-bash locked melmetal, in which case fire punch ko's after superpower def drop (Diggersby also has a 93% chance to OHKO after superpower). Toxapex can come in on bash and fish for burns on whatever Melmetal switches into. Bulk-ish DD Crawdaunt can Dance on the Bash and clam Ko's with knock-CC-liquidation. ferro seed stalls, corvi pressure stalls & setsup, aegi sets up on anything that isn't quake. Melmetal has options, but with the band lockign it into a move, you can usually have a mon that turns it into at the very least a stalemate.
And Finally, Double Iron bash's tendency to flinch. 60% is a behemoth of a chance, and can steal KO's that would usually result in melmetal being shut down, i.e flinching Corsula-G on the Strength sap. Flinching, and Hax in general, is one of the worst things to have in a competitive game. having a win taken from a para or a miss is disheartening, but pinning Melmetal for this is to ignore other common offenders, such as kings rock skill link (ghetto Serene grace) mons such ass Cloyster and Cinccino, and the Primary offenders: Togekiss and Jirachi. Togekiss, while not being very seen since both of it's typing are rarely seen on ladder, is at full power with the ability to nasty plot and t-wave anythign slower that dosen't outrigth Ko it, whittling whatever mon's HP down chunk by chunk. Jirachi can also do this, but to a lesser extent as it's boosting moves are usually reserved to special attacking, it is still as powerful as it's gen 6 pastmand was even more threatening in gen's past with z-happy hour. neither of these have either been banned or even been up for a discussion, so i feel that factoring in a unreliable factor that isn't as abusable as the other mentioned is unfair to Melmetal.
With the main points addressed with, i'll now go into a small rantish idea i have. Jolly Togekiss and others describe Melmetal as "Uncompetitive", as it is hard to build against and make sets for. but we have seen another mon in the past who are also just as, if not more, uncompetitive than melmetal flourish with no repercussion in monotype before: Celesteela. The Notorious Tank flourished in monotype for most of the same reasons as Melmetal does; absurd bulk and threatening move-pool. Cele can either build defensively or offensively and would wipe teams by itself in gen7. Yet this mon didn't get even a discussion. why is that? because it wasn't as powerful? Cele could solo countless matchups with teh defensive set and clean up late game with the other. Was it the "Ample" Counters Cele had, like kyu, koko, raichu and fire? all of those are beaten by cele's teamates, such as excadrill, mantine, heatran, gliscor, and others. I feel there is a huge inconsistency with how "uncompetitive" mons are dealt with. there should be a true consensus on how a pokemon should be labled 'uncompetitive'. losts of team were viable on how they dealt with cele, so why should this meta be any different? it would allow types like fighting, fire, and ground to have some limelight. The Meta would gradually shift to counter the steel counters, and so on, so the metagame would shift consistently. I don't see the problem with Melmetal if Celesteela got to stay, and others should feel the same.
There are 4 Main point of discussion for Melmetal:
1. His physical bulk
2. The Raw power & lack of switch ins
3. The Luck biased aspect of Double Iron Bash
His physical bulk is indeed impressive, but it isn't godlike when you factor in it's lack of recovery & easy chippability. Volt-pivoting into his aforementioned weak spD incredably weakens his ability to take hits from either side, and there are definately pokemon that can okho or ko with the proper chip damage. Banded Excadrill, Crawdaunt, Mamoswine, Diggersby Darmanitan (G & regular), Arcanine, Barresqewda Sirfecth'd & Haxorus are huge threats to Melmetal, even with the absurd hp & def. And while the argument could be made that it's special defense is offset by it's Hp stat, I can calm assert that any boosted SE special move WILL OHKO banded melmetal. Scarf Zard, specs Salazzle & Chandelure, Specs Dragapult (Chance), Keldeo in Rain OR Focus Blast ( not as run), Seis, nasty plot hydrei, Alolachu, Ninetails, & Togekiss all have the potential to OHKO Melmetal with the standard 4 spD.
Band Melmetal is indeed a threat. capable of OHKOing or 2HKOing most 'Frail' pokemon, and even dishing out damage to mons considered bulky. however, the problem with band is, and always will be, the lock move. while melmetal has the movepool to hit everything, after it clicks it's choice, you have the power to send in a mon that either walls, shut downs, or set ups on melmetal in it's entirety. Sash Diggersby SD's and OHKO's with quake or can predict the corvi and press Fire punch to either kill corvi, or to dish a 75% to non-bash locked melmetal, in which case fire punch ko's after superpower def drop (Diggersby also has a 93% chance to OHKO after superpower). Toxapex can come in on bash and fish for burns on whatever Melmetal switches into. Bulk-ish DD Crawdaunt can Dance on the Bash and clam Ko's with knock-CC-liquidation. ferro seed stalls, corvi pressure stalls & setsup, aegi sets up on anything that isn't quake. Melmetal has options, but with the band lockign it into a move, you can usually have a mon that turns it into at the very least a stalemate.
And Finally, Double Iron bash's tendency to flinch. 60% is a behemoth of a chance, and can steal KO's that would usually result in melmetal being shut down, i.e flinching Corsula-G on the Strength sap. Flinching, and Hax in general, is one of the worst things to have in a competitive game. having a win taken from a para or a miss is disheartening, but pinning Melmetal for this is to ignore other common offenders, such as kings rock skill link (ghetto Serene grace) mons such ass Cloyster and Cinccino, and the Primary offenders: Togekiss and Jirachi. Togekiss, while not being very seen since both of it's typing are rarely seen on ladder, is at full power with the ability to nasty plot and t-wave anythign slower that dosen't outrigth Ko it, whittling whatever mon's HP down chunk by chunk. Jirachi can also do this, but to a lesser extent as it's boosting moves are usually reserved to special attacking, it is still as powerful as it's gen 6 pastmand was even more threatening in gen's past with z-happy hour. neither of these have either been banned or even been up for a discussion, so i feel that factoring in a unreliable factor that isn't as abusable as the other mentioned is unfair to Melmetal.
With the main points addressed with, i'll now go into a small rantish idea i have. Jolly Togekiss and others describe Melmetal as "Uncompetitive", as it is hard to build against and make sets for. but we have seen another mon in the past who are also just as, if not more, uncompetitive than melmetal flourish with no repercussion in monotype before: Celesteela. The Notorious Tank flourished in monotype for most of the same reasons as Melmetal does; absurd bulk and threatening move-pool. Cele can either build defensively or offensively and would wipe teams by itself in gen7. Yet this mon didn't get even a discussion. why is that? because it wasn't as powerful? Cele could solo countless matchups with teh defensive set and clean up late game with the other. Was it the "Ample" Counters Cele had, like kyu, koko, raichu and fire? all of those are beaten by cele's teamates, such as excadrill, mantine, heatran, gliscor, and others. I feel there is a huge inconsistency with how "uncompetitive" mons are dealt with. there should be a true consensus on how a pokemon should be labled 'uncompetitive'. losts of team were viable on how they dealt with cele, so why should this meta be any different? it would allow types like fighting, fire, and ground to have some limelight. The Meta would gradually shift to counter the steel counters, and so on, so the metagame would shift consistently. I don't see the problem with Melmetal if Celesteela got to stay, and others should feel the same.
Alright, I'm going to break down some of the points one by one before I drop to sleep, because some of the no-ban arguments on this thread have become pretty weary to read.
Firstly, Volt Switch is not a good reason to argue against a Melmetal ban, because only two types have Pokemon that consistently use Volt Switch, which are Electric (pretty obvious) and Water (Rotom-Wash). The other damaging pivot move is U-Turn, which does not budge Melmetal, if at all.
Some of the mons you listed have clear deficiencies in regards to being a Melmetal counter/check. Banded Excadrill does force out Melmetal, but Steel has the best Excadrill counter in Corviknight, which relishes the opportunity to set up against Ground (where you'd expect Band Excadrill). Banded Barraskewda and Crawdaunt do a max of 75% with their most effective move, Close Combat, and are likely to be fainted in return by CB Mel. Note that both of the aforementioned mons are most commonly used in Water teams, which generally do not struggle dealing with Melmetal due to the presence of Specs Pelipper, Focus Blast Keldeo, and Seismitoad, all with the capability to OHKO it, and Toxapex, which has trouble taking an Earthquake but forces difficult plays from the Melmetal user due to Regenerator granting it the ability to effectively pivot. Darmanitan-Regular and Arcanine are typed Mono-Fire, which already has an abundance of options to deal with Melmetal. Both Mamoswine and Darmanitan-Galar are mainly used on Ice, where a Trick Room leads to catastrophe, while Sirfetch'd and Haxorus are both ranked D, making them irrelevant to the discussion. Diggersby, out of all the mons, is the most threatening to Melmetal in context of Steel, not just in a vacuum.
Scarf Zard is mainly used on Fire, which does not have much trouble dealing with Melmetal. Specs Salazzle, to be blunt, is not a common set on either Poison or Fire. Meanwhile, Specs Chandy is outclassed on Ghost by SubCM Chandy, which deals with Bisharp, and isn't used on Fire. Ninetales is losing usage with the coming of Darmanitan and Incineroar, while also being on a type which handily deals with Mel. Seis and Keld both get significantly damaged under Trick Room (regardless, Water would be able to deal with Mel), and Alolachu and Toge both need to set up, unlikely since either Trick Room is up or Melmetal is switched into the Nasty Plot outside of TR, a very unlikely scenario.
How does Sash Diggersby set up an SD on Melmetal? Double Iron Bash kills it. While you could argue that Mel is forced out, your scenario does not paint that picture. Melmetal locking itself into Superpower on Diggers is an objectively bad play.
Toxapex is only present on two types, both of which Specs Aegis has a better matchup in. Crawdaunt, even if it uses the highly niche set you suggest, would not be able to kill Melmetal after one DDance.
Ferro and Corvi are commonly seen in the Steel mirror, where Melmetal is not of significant use. Both Flying and Grass are mediocre types as of now, at best. SD Aegislash has a high chance of being 2HKOed against Melmetal, therefore not being able to set up. Also, King's Shield is discounted since said setup Aegislash has been superseded by the superior Specs Aegis on Steel, and Ghost doesn't run King's Shield on SD variants.
Ok, let's go through the listed mons. One common theme is that Melmetal has access to unprecedented immediate power that the other Pokemon do not. Cloyster needs to Shell Smash to deal significant damage, Cinccino is irrelevant and unranked despite the painfully scarce selection of mons for Normal, and both Jirachi and Togekiss need to setup either TWave/Calm Mind/NPlot, or serve as late game sweepers. The latter two have an approximately 40% chance to flinch, while Melmetal clocks in at around 50%, with the notorious Serene Grace mons. Apart from the power difference, what separates Melmetal from the other two is that while Scarf Rachi and Scarf Togekiss can get outsped by other mons, nullifying the flinch effect (a prime example is ScarfGar), Melmetal under Trick Room has a fantastic speed tier, and there are no viable Pokemon slower than Melmetal in normal conditions that can deal it significant damage.
Z-Happy Hour Rachi was not as threatening as you make it out to be. Towards the end of Gen 7, Kasib and Band Metagross competed with Rachi in Psychic Builds. While Steel sometimes used Z-Rachi, it was outsped by Scarf Greninja on Water and nullified by SpDef Swampert, which made it an iffy choice. Flying had Celesteela and Lando-T, which were able to take it on. The set's notoriety also causing wariness, which ensured that players planned well in order to prevent Jirachi from getting a free setup. As a cursory example, a potential standard Water Balance team contains Greninja, M-Pert, Keldeo, Rotom-Wash, Toxapex, and Gyarados. The only scenarios Jirachi can set up on is a Scarf Gren locked into a non-Dark Pulse (or the rare HP Fire), which is very unlikely against Steel since Gren has no reason to click Ice Beam or other ineffective moves, on a Gyarados switch (the Water user would be keener to sack Gyara at that moment), or on Rotom-Wash, which immediately Volt Switches to M-Pert.
I don't think the last paragraph particularly pertains to this suspect, but Celesteela, while being one of the most prominent Pokemon in USUM Monotype (evidenced by presence in Top 10 Titans), was never wholly uncompetitive. Celesteela was never a reason for types being outright unviable, and it was easy to identify the set by the team composition. While Autotomize enabled it to run through the likes of Grass and Bug, it lessened its ability to perform against other types. Both aforementioned types would have a disadvantageous matchup against Flying regardless of Auto Celes. While Metronome could pose a threat to Water, due to the set being easy to read, it can be shut down if played around.
Melmetal is an interesting Pokemon. When the first few discussions came about Melmetal before it was released, there were some saying it would be banned and some saying it would stay. I was on the No Ban side thinking it would just be another hard hitting bulky mon. That was until I actually read into its signature move a little more and saw that Double Iron Bash was a punch move. My entire opinion of it switched to ban. That alone, along with Iron Fist, essentially makes the move's base power 144 before STAB. Along with its coverage moves, this mon is such a powerhouse. It's kind of up there with another mon that was said to 2HKO the meta Hoopa-U, but I digress.
Looking at Melmetal individually, it's a wallbreaker. That's its only job and it does it pretty well (maybe a little too well, hence the suspect test). There are some mons that can switch into it, like Toxapex, Ferrothorn, and Rotom-Wash notably. Outside of Rotom-Wash, the former two are threatened by Melmetal's coverage moves that 2HKO them. Now, not all types have a reliable core than can switch into Melmetal on a correct prediction, a lot of types have to sack something to bring in their check which sucks if this is repeated throughout the game. Some of the calcs that others have posted shows how great its bulk is. You can say it has low base SpD but it is really offset by its HP stat.
Looking at how Melmetal fits on Steel, it isn't entirely necessary but it helps clear some threats for its teammates. Melmetal kinda thrives outside of Steel's tough matchups. Outside of Water, Fire, and Steel mirror, it can reliably get kills in other matchups. Let's look at a few of the other matchups:
Bug - Everything either dies to Double Iron Bash or to its coverage moves. Durant dies to banded Superpower, Araquanid dies to Tpunch, Centiskorch has to get +1 before Melmetal comes in to reliably 2HKO Melmetal or else it dies to 2 Double Iron Bashes.
Dark - No reliable switchins outside of maybe Incineroar.
Dragon - Has to play Dragapult and/or Hydreigon carefully. Pretty much sack something to bring them in to force out/deal Melmetal.
Electric - Access to Rotom-Wash is a huge help in dealing with Melmetal. It's just, Electric needs some setup to get rid of it such as Raichu-Alola, Sub + Bulk Up Zeraora, and Dracozolt in Electric Terrain. Although, the combination of Ferrothorn + Scarf Excadrill makes it tough to tag Melmetal.
Fighting - Keldeo and Lucario are great checks.
Flying - Iron Fist boosted Thunderpunch is hard to beat but Scarf Charizard bodies Steel so there's that.
Ghost - As others mentioned, Chandelure with SubCM or Scarf Fire Blast works well. Dragapult and Corsola-Galar gets in the way too.
Ground - Melmetal doesn't do too much in this matchup besides getting some damage off before dying.
Normal - Melmetal can essentially Double Iron Bash and get a kill every time just about. Or it can click Superpower once and leave until Ditto comes in on a Superpower and dies. Then it's back to clicking Double Iron Bash and claiming kills. Corviknight protects Melmetal from things like Bewear and Diggersby or Duraladon can switchin to a potential Fire Punch from Diggersby.
Poison - Lead Melmetal and claim a kill or chunk Toxapex.
Psychic - Stallbreaker Mew is a great check, Iron Defense Necrozma and Reuniclus are good too so long as there's no Bisharp or it was KO'd.
Another archetype that hasn't been mentioned too often are Trick Room Steel variants. With Bronzong and/or Jirachi as the setters, Melmetal essentially can make use of Double Iron Bash's flinch chance and become an even greater threat. Especially with Jirachi being able to U-Turn or Healing Wish into Melmetal. Healing Wish in particular because of its buff this generation. If switching into a full HP mon, it will heal AFTER the mon takes damage. That's pretty huge considering how its bulk can take a hit from a threat then get healed after that turn.
I'm leaning towards Ban for Melmetal but not entirely sure. I'm still open to others' opinions to change my mind. There's arguments to keep it here as well.
In my opinion, melmetal should be ban. It has three elements which harm it.
It's oversized bulk allows it to withstand all life shots, even Fire Blast. But above all it holds all physical attacks quite easily and can retaliate by making a kill, it's therefore a huge threat for offensive teams. In addition, he can return to the terrain thanks to Healing Wish Jirachi.
Its low speed does not necessarily handicap it if it is played in Trick Room.
But that again, other pokemons can have a similar advantage.
The real problem is that it restricts the metagame and can ban certain types by its mere presence. This is because of his exceptional attack coupled with his stab which offers him the kill on almost everything, hitting twice consecutively.
For me, it's an anti-metagame pokemon that works too well.
By the way, maybe it’s just me or the requirements to vote are super high.
I mean, 80% GXE in 45 games? Like wtf bro, too many games. Maybe 35 or 40 was good enough. Like if you want us to get so tired of crossin that piece of junk in every odd ladder game that we will vote ban just because.
I'll pour some of my thoughts about Melmetal here, though everyone probably already said this:
This thing is too darn broken.
For real, ice monos have serious trouble with this Pokemon. It's absurd bulk and monstrous attack paired with it's great STAB move and lack of special attackers on any team just make this thing one heck of a threat. It's always that Pokemon that you need to get rid of or is usually the wincon of a team. There is a few days to deal with Melmetal, such as wearing it down with strong attacks and taking advantage of it's slow speed with moves like Will-O-Wisp, but even those can be dealt with the defensive and offensive cores it forms on steel teams such as Corviknight, Jirachi, Aegislash, Bronzong, etc. So yeah, it just beats the heck out of teams when it is free and given the chance.
EDIT: Fylkir Pudin also showed me a calc that is worth noting:
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 384-456 (97.4 - 115.7%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
This thing can OHKO even the most defensive physical wall, which shows how strong it is.
Glad everyone enjoyed the meme image I made above, going to drop my thoughts on Melmetal in the metagame and why I think we should vote to ban it. While I'm sure some of what I have said has been stated in the OP or in other people's posts I just want to give my whole opinion on it, rather than not repeat something that may have been said. Anyway, let's get into this essay!
Melmetal's signature trait is being an insanely strong physical wallbreaker with Choice Band Double Iron Bash, being able to take on anything bar defensive resists such as Ferrothorn, Corviknight, Toxapex, aka the usual insanely fat Pokemon. These fat Pokemon that are slower than Melmetal also have to worry about being flinched by Melmetal as well, so they do not always check it even though they should be able to. However, it has great coverage that allows you to break past the earlier mentioned Pokemon with Thunder Punch, Superpower, Earthquake and is able to muscle through pokemon that can burn it with Facade. Its safe to just say that Melmetal has a way to deal with any Pokemon using its moves. This is just the traits of a really good wallbreaker, so there isn't too much to look into there. It not only has the traits of an amazing wallbreaker but has insanely good bulk. A comparison I want to make only in terms of its physical defense is that if you all remember how hard it was to OHKO Mega Metagross (early in gen 7) on the physical side, well Melmetal is physically bulkier than it as well, so there is that, lol. What I'm going to look it is how Melmetal warps multiple matchups into almost centralizing a good chunk of types, even those that are naturally strong against Steel to still have to prepare for this beast.
I realize that you can also build successful Steel teams without the use of Melmetal, I do not think that is a reason to not ban it. While it might not be a staple that does not make it any less of a threat! Also while some of these checks might seem good on paper they are not always accurate especially the Pokemon that rely on Focus Blast or Fire Blast to OHKO Melmetal, meaning even if you pack proper checks things may not go your way, oftentimes forcing you to place multiple checks onto the team that might be otherwise less than optimal.
Small disclaimer, I am not going to talk about types that should not be losing to Melmetal Steel such as Fire, or types that get absolutely obliterated by it solely by typing such as Rock, Ice, and Fairy. I realize I did not talk about Electric or Ground, as I feel like it wasn't needed. Also, some of that calcs in 'are capable of ohkoing melmetal' sections are rolls, so keep that in mind when viewing them.
These are ways that different types can deal with Melmetal. This is not trying to convince you that Melmetal is balanced but rather how each type can deal with it even if that means losing a mon or two.
Normal:
Checks: Bewear, Diggersby, Heliolisk, Obstagoon
These are the four viable ways to weaken Melmetal on Normal teams. All of them can punish Melmetal with supereffective coverage and their naturally higher level of power. First of all, Bewear (without running a suboptimal Adamant CB set) and Obstagoon have no way of formally OHKOing Melmetal and can only merely weaken it. Heliolisk is able to OHKO Diggersby with only Choice Specs boosted Focus Blast and Diggersby has to run Adamant Choice Band Earthquake in order to not have a terrible roll against Melmetal. While this might be a decent set for Diggersby Heliolisk would much rather run an item such as Expert Belt to be able to handle Water- and Ground-type Pokemon better but can only OHKO Melmetal with Choice Specs. In return against most Pokemon on the type such as Braviary, non-Obstruct Obstagoon, Indeedee, and the other variants of those Pokemon give Melmetal room to claim a kill. While you could say well Ditto can turn into Melmetal it is prone to getting chipped while the Melmetal player can switch out into a Pokemon such as Corviknight.
Are Capable of OHKOing Melmetal:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 464-548 (98.3 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 492-580 (104.2 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Guts Obstagoon Close Combat vs. -2 244 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 446-526 (94.4 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Are not Capable of OHKOing Melmetal:
252 SpA Expert Belt Heliolisk Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 394-466 (83.4 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Braviary Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 186-220 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Mystical Fire vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 300-354 (63.5 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Water:
Luckily, Water is one of the blessed types that resist Double Iron Bash, however, that does not mean Melmetal is not capable of wreaking havoc on unprepared teams. Personally I have been using Webs Rain Water a lot this generation after Pokemon Home was released and I can say I have to put actual checks into the team mainly for Melmetal such as Superpower Barbaracle, which is only capable of OHKOing the beast after a Shell Smash and an Adamant nature, meaning timing is everything. I would not really say that since Water resists Double Iron Bash it does not hurt to take on because it certainly does, however, its coverage in Earthquake, Thunder Punch, and Facade tend to make it annoying to deal with at minimum. Allowing it to easily abuse all defensive water types. Water does have a defensive backbone that can tank Double Iron Bash, but burning it does not really help because it has access to Facade, allowing it to turn around the disadvantage easily. Basically, to sum up, the type does have a decent number of checks but Melmetal is still dangerous here.
Are Capable of OHKOing Melmetal:
252 SpA Keldeo Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 554-654 (117.3 - 138.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Pelipper Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal in Rain: 463-546 (98 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Earth Power vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 447-530 (94.7 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (timid has 12.5% to KO)
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Barbaracle Superpower vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 470-554 (99.5 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO (less than 50% on Jolly)
Are not Capable of OHKOing Melmetal:
252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 298-352 (63.1 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Barraskewda Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 265-312 (56.1 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 390-460 (82.6 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Grass:
Grass is fully fucked up by Melmetal if it is not running Sun variants, there is a chance this type just loses at matchup to Melmetal. Basically the only thing inside of Sun that is capable of OHKOing Melmetal are the users that can abuse Weather Ball, however, both are super threatened by Bisharp, so there is only so much that can be done there. Outside of sun, I could not really think of anything that could OHKO Melmetal bar maybe CM Virizion with Focus Blast, which at best is a shaky check. This matchup is fairly straight forward after Ferrothorn dies (which Melmetal can dent it with Superpower) its either you can OHKO this thing or you are dying.
Are Capable of OHKOing Melmetal:
252 SpA Virizion Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 434-512 (91.9 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal in Sun: 551-650 (116.7 - 137.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Celebi Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal in Sun: 466-550 (98.7 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Are not Capable of OHKOing Melmetal:
+2 252 SpA Rotom-Mow Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 360-424 (76.2 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Virizion Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 224-266 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 83.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Celebi Earth Power vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 281-331 (59.5 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 274-325 (58 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Superpower vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 280-330 (59.3 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Fighting:
Not really gonna include calcs for this type because they get a STAB attack that is supereffective against Melmetal, however it still can take on a majority of Fighting-types. Just looking at the type the things that can outright OHKO Melmetal are Keldeo with Focus Blast, Choice Band Terrakion's Close Combat (less than 50% to OHKO), Lucario's Focus Blast, and Choice Band Bewears Close Combat. This means common Pokemon such as Conkeldurr, unboosted Hawlucha, Toxicroak, and Gallade it can easily take advantage of.
Poison:
This matchup is kind of very sad, there is only one thing that can reliably take on Melmetal, everything else gives it a free opportunity to just claim a kill. On top of this, the few things that have a possibility of killing it can easily be tanked by other teammates, making this matchup near impossible to lose for Melmetal. This is type is absolutely throttled and not much you can do aside hope they let you status it with a burn or rely on Focus Blast from Specs Gengar.
Are Capable of OHKOing Melmetal:
252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 556-656 (117.7 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Are not Capable of OHKOing Melmetal:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 363-426 (76.9 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Salazzle Flamethrower vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 302-356 (63.9 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (not running subtoxic is bad)
Flying:
This is one of the few matchups where Melmetal just isn't going to be mainly clicking Double Iron Bash. Thunder Punch absolutely destroys every Flying-type available to us in SwSh. While it might be impossible to tank an attack from Melmetal it has been blessed with a few common ways to beat down Melmetal, however, the only guaranteed OHKO without boosting would be from Choice Specs Charizard using a STAB Fire attack. The other ways to deal with it are more so just cripple it such as removing its Choice Band with Knock Off Mandibuzz or pack Bulk Up+Body Press Corviknight. However, both of these methods involve the Pokemon being brought in safely and for the latter not being paralyzed by Thunder Punch. While Mandibuzz's only job vs it is to remove the item, Corviknight can stall it with Bulk Up and Roost until it is ready to Body Press. However, with this you have to note that with both Mandibuzz and Corviknight, you have to note that both are stopped hard in their tracks by Choice Specs Aegislash which can easily deal with both Pokemon and other options to check it like Hawlucha. This matchup is playable verse Melmetal but definitely has a skew to the Steel players' advantage thanks to Melmetal.
Are Capable of OHKOing Melmetal:
252 SpA Charizard Fire Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 452-534 (95.7 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Hawlucha Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 456-536 (96.6 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Pelipper Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal in Rain: 463-546 (98 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Are not Capable of OHKOing Melmetal:
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 234-276 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Togekiss Fire Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 322-380 (68.2 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Psychic:
This is another unfortunate matchup, as the only common not suboptimal way to deal with Melmetal is Nasty Plot Mew that can OHKO it with Fire Blast after one boost. Against every other Pokemon bar like random suboptimal Choice Specs abusers like Focus Blast Gardevoir and Heat Wave Necrozma Melmetal claims a free kill each time it is in. Making the matchup near impossible for the Psychic player to comfortably take it down.
Are Capable of OHKOing Melmetal:
+2 252 SpA Mew Fire Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 566-668 (119.9 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 542-638 (114.8 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Necrozma Heat Wave vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 476-562 (100.8 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Timid only has a 50% chance to OHKO)
Are not Capable of OHKOing Melmetal:
252 SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 362-426 (76.6 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Mystical Fire vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 300-354 (63.5 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ghost:
Ghost teams should not really struggle vs Melmetal since they pack a variety of anti-Steel Pokemon anyway such as Choice Specs Dragapult, Chandelure, Focus Blast Gengar, and Choice Specs Aegislash, and can easily cripple it with Will-O-Wisp not having to be afraid of Will-O-Wisp with Pokemon such as Sableye and Galarian Corsola. Melmetal can still be annoying in this matchup but nothing the type can't naturally handle.
Dragon:
Dragon nowadays run Choice Specs Fire Blast Hydreigon which pretty much can solo Steel teams, the only real way Melmetal can truly break through the whole team is with Trick Room, that support makes Melmetal a near impossible Pokemon for Dragon teams to take on especially since Bronzong commonly runs either Occa Berry or Heat Proof making spamming Fire attacks not always as viable to beat Steel teams with Trick Room. Its either you can very easily win this matchup if they do not run Trick Room support or very easily just flatly lose to Trick Room + Melmetal, as with a chunk of types that rely on outspeeding and OHKOing it.
Dark:
Dark similarly to many types has a decent chunk of Pokemon that Melmetal can easily abuse or Pokemon that are able to offensively check Melmetal. These for the Dark teams include Choice Specs Hydreigon and or using the less used D ranks (Obstagoon (Obstruct+Close Combat) or Incineroar (Intimidate+Supereffective STAB+Intimidate), both of which are checks although less viable in other matchups. Dark, however, has about a hundred different Pokemon that can use Knock Off so removing its Choice Band at the cost of losing one of those Pokemon is a good way to cripple it or to burn it with Will-O-Wisp Sableye.
Steel:
This is a mirror matchup.
I stopped collecting calcs past the Psychic matchup because this post was droning on for so long and honestly that calcs were just to support the paragraphs and something to look at as you read along.
Alright, that massive hide text tag is now over, that analyzed it in a ton of matchups in the tier, now let me talk about the support its teammates can provide that only push Melmetal further down the line of unhealthy beyond belief. With a good defensive backbone of Ferrothorn and Corviknight Melmetal can absorb a ton of attacks people try to throw at it, such as Electric, Water, Ground, and Fighting moves that otherwise may hurt it. Corviknight also very viably runs a Bulk Up set with either Brave Bird, Power Trip, or Body Press that can be customized to help Melmetal in different matchups. Ferrothorn does what Ferrothorn has always done, hazard spam, spam Leech Seed, and check Water-types with Power Whip alongside its resistance. The Leech Seed support only increases Melmetal's ability to switch into battle easier taking less chip. Jirachi can cripple walls that may trouble Melmetal for it with Trick and give it another chance to hit hard and just obliterate with Healing Wish. Additionally, Jirachi can take on Fighting-types with its Psychic STAB attacks, taking away further some things that might have been able to check Melmetal such as Charizard on Flying. Excadrill and Bisharp are separate beasts on their own, Excadrill can spin away hazards and bring in support vs Electric-types. Then Pokemon such as Bronzong can be used specifically to make Melmetal untouchable from faster threats by setting Trick Room and being able to bring it in risk-free by exploding, giving it three turns minimum to just destroy things. While you might say who actually cares about any of this all Steel-type Pokemon can abuse this, to that I say nothing Steel has even come close to being the absolute beast Melmetal is. All these reasons and probably some that I forgot to mention is why I believe Melmetal should be banned from Monotype, and hope that all voters feel the same way.
Poison:
This matchup is kind of very sad, there is only one thing that can reliably take on Melmetal, everything else gives it a free opportunity to just claim a kill. On top of this, the few things that have a possibility of killing it can easily be tanked by other teammates, making this matchup near impossible to lose for Melmetal. This is type is absolutely throttled and not much you can do aside hope they let you status it with a burn or rely on Focus Blast from Specs Gengar.
Are Capable of OHKOing Melmetal:
252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 556-656 (117.7 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Are not Capable of OHKOing Melmetal:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 363-426 (76.9 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Salazzle Flamethrower vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 302-356 (63.9 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (not running subtoxic is bad)
Just wanting to make a point that Vileplume not only has a chance to survive the double iron bash (roll in favor of a OHKO tho), what is my main point for Vileplume not doing to badly against it is that Effect Spore can trigger on each individual hit and it outspeeds Melmetal so it can always lower its attack AND heal to full on it, basically either forcing it out or the enemy to take the roll. While that is not a boom got it not difficult to deal with type of argument, it should be mentioned.
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 332-392 (93.7 - 110.7%) -- approx. 68.8% chance to OHKO after Black Sludge recovery
just for those that want to see the odds of surviving, i have thought its worse to begin with ngl
Just wanting to make a point that Vileplume not only has a chance to survive the double iron bash (roll in favor of a OHKO tho), what is my main point for Vileplume not doing to badly against it is that Effect Spore can trigger on each individual hit and it outspeeds Melmetal so it can always lower its attack AND heal to full on it, basically either forcing it out or the enemy to take the roll. While that is not a boom got it not difficult to deal with type of argument, it should be mentioned.
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 332-392 (93.7 - 110.7%) -- approx. 68.8% chance to OHKO after Black Sludge recovery
just for those that want to see the odds of surviving, i have thought its worse to begin with ngl
Nothing really reliably defensively checks Melmetal, sure there are Pokemon that can but Melmetal can still come in on a majority of Pokemon on Poison teams and pretty freely click Double Iron Bash. Also to that note Vileplume guareenteed dies if Stealth Rock is up so it's not a reliable switch in. Vileplume can annoy it with Strength Sap yes, but again teammates can easily handle Vileplume. The point overall is that barely anything can offensively threaten it on Poison and nothing really truly defensively checks it.
Speaking for pretty much all psychic players who played this meta, there’s no way to comfortably counter melmetal without making extreme countermeasures to make sure you don’t get steamrolled by it, for example I run specs MS indeedee, a super common set and it can’t deal with it while it just gets a free pick on a important Pokémon for the steel MU. For all the posts I have seen none of them mentions the semi-common Trick room melmetal team, including Pokémon like Bronzong lead, jirachi with healing wish and trick room, and melmetal itself. This type of team steamrolls through all of the most common psychic sets and nothing can really stop it or tank a DIB, and it gets the ability to flinch even if you do survive! I think this is important for the meta to finally strike it down now.
edit: I’ve seen wallbreaker mew being thrown around but there’s only type of team where WB mew will be used, that being where necrozma is the main wincon, and with the loss of mega gallade two wincons on psychic is invaluable with both necrozma and mew, plus trick room would make WB mew irrelevant with its 60% flinch chance and it’s monstrous attack and on the other side of the coin, mew will have a hard time getting a set up at all unless their Pokémon is on Corviknight which is almost impossible to see if the steel player knows the melmetal V psychic MU
Alright gonna put in my 2 cents here, note this is my opinion not the councils.
So I just made reqs and surprisingly enough I did not encounter melmetal that much. I grudgingly encountered a lot of fire and ice teams, while using teams that were respectively weak to both. I did use it though and also faced it a fair amount, so I'll share how it went.
Is melmetal good? Yes, ofcourse. Throughout my games using it I always noticed it had a key role to play. Whether that be reliably KO'ing an opposing mon or being tanky enough to live the SE attack and threaten back. Facing it I had the same notes, I always had to be weary of it in the back, but not overwhelmingly so. In the end it filled a role that any vital pokemon should. I was actually always more weary of corviknight in fact. I also think the metagame has developed around corviknight already that there are little ways for melmetal to shine. Special fire and electric stab is everywhere to take on corviknight, and the same checks melmetal.
As for the best set, I think it's obvious that banded melmetal is the best. I haven't really run into or seen body press yet so thats something else, but I think in mono band would be best for the coverage it provides. With trick room support I can see it doing well too, but in the matchups it already excels in. I think theres many ways to check it right now with the current mons we have in the meta. Personally I think this situation is similar to how mega scizor was really good and destroyed some matchups. There was a lot of talk to ask for ban, but it by itself wasnt necessarily broken. I think the situation is similar here.
Overall, I think I will be voting No Banas of right now, I don't want to take something away from the meta which I havent been shown to be overbearing. The meta will be expanding and completely changing soon, and I'd rather keep it the way it is right now.
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 384-456 (97.4 - 115.7%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
This thing can OHKO even the most defensive physical wall, which shows how strong it is.
If this doesn't sound impressive to you, here's another calc for reference...
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 338-402 (85.7 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
(It dies if Victini is Adamant but nobody would be caught dead running that lol)
it is impressive...it OHKOS the most defensive wall, its tremendously hard to prepare for. You're forced to run specs Togekiss on Fairy, Banded-Darmanitan on Ice...this big blop of steel does not even fit into the meta rn. Steel is already hard for a lot, but its annoying with Melmetal..Steel will still be the top type without Melmetal regardless...impressive can be good but it can also be unhealthy like putting Mewtwo or Zygarde into the meta.
Waszap , concerning this "The meta will be expanding and completely changing soon, and I'd rather keep it the way it is right now "
I don't think it's a good argument to keep it in the current meta.
It's better to ban it and when the meta will be stronger, maybe suspect in if Melmetal would be weaker by far than now.
Waszap , concerning this "The meta will be expanding and completely changing soon, and I'd rather keep it the way it is right now "
I don't think it's a good argument to keep it in the current meta.
It's better to ban it and when the meta will be stronger, maybe suspect in if Melmetal would be weaker by far than now.
That wasn't exactly an argument in the first place, but more of a personal reason but thanks for the nitpick. My overall opinion was to not ban it for the current meta in the first place, so I don't exactly know what Ur arguing?
