SS OU RMT: Balanced Defense and Offense

This team is kind of odd with some unique EV spreads, however, I find it to work great for shaking up your opponent and catching them off guard with some unique strategies and items.

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Obstagoon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Guts
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Switcheroo
- Knock Off
- Obstruct
- Close Combat

This is probably one of the whackiest 'mons on the team, but Obstagoon is a very versatile threat. He can shut down strategies with switcheroo choice scarf, almost walling the versatility of 'mons like Dusclops, and ruining trick room teams by boosting their speed. Generally, the choice scarf can either force a switch or lock a mon into a move it doesn't want, which adds a lot of fun versatility and strategy to the team. He has Guts to eat status moves, as status is a little bit of a problem for this team, and has just enough Speed to outspeed all base 90 Pokemon and many more when he's scarfed, as most base 95 speed 'mons are not necessary to outspeed. You might think he needs Flame Orb burn or Adamant to do enough damage to be useful, however:

252+ Atk Obstagoon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 344-408 (108.5 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Obstagoon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Indeedee: 434-512 (166.2 - 196.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Obstagoon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 122-146 (42.9 - 51.4%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO (removes eviolite)
252+ Atk Obstagoon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dracovish: 135-160 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Knock off bullies 'mons and gets rid of vital items and takes away half their health in an instant. Obstruct adds to that versatility, and changes many 2HKOs to 1HKOs with the right predictions. The goal of this set isn't necessarily to get kills, but more to mess with the strategy of the opponent and shut down walls and set-up, and it does that very well.

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Dracovish @ Choice Band
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Fang
- Fishious Rend
- Psychic Fangs
- Leech Life

This is a pretty standard set, and we all know or have experienced the utter damage of Banded Fishious Rend. Jolly and max speed to outspeed as many other pokemon as possible, and coverage moves not only to cover his own weaknesses but also the weaknesses of many other pokemon on the team. I would put calcs below here, but I'm sure you know the damage this thing can do, especially with Tailwind setup from Whimsicott.

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Whimsicott @ Mago Berry
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 8 SpA / 120 SpD
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Tailwind
- Moonblast
- Protect

This one is really whacky, and probably the set I'm least married to. Whimsicott is so versatile it's hard to pin down 4 moves and the right EV spread, I kept having trouble with not quite enough Speed, not quite enough Defense, not quite enough Sp. Def, etc, so I tried to do all of them, and it honestly works super well. The basic idea of this set is to survive long enough to set up tailwind for the rest of the team and maybe a leech seed or two, Moonblast can get kills in the right situations but that isn't the primary focus here. I've found Timid adds a nice amount of Spe, while max HP and split defensive investment adds a good amount of bulk and survivability. Poison moves will always OHKO, so I've thought about Focus Sash, but Tailwind will get up regardless of any OHKO so to me focus sash feels not as good here as the primary goal to set up Tailwind. This set works well for me, but I'm open to experimenting more and seeing what works.

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Grimmsnarl @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Thunder Wave
- Foul Play

This is another 'mon who I'm not married to, I'd be open to switching him out for anything that might work better. It's a pretty standard set with dual screens and light clay to set up for the powerhouses of the team, and T-Wave to cripple pokemon that might be a problem. If anything else would work better in the slot, lmk, though I do find Light Screen setup to be very good with this team (as many 'mons here have a deficit in Sp. Def)

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Duraludon-Gmax @ Life Orb
Ability: Light Metal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Snarl

This is the second powerhouse of the team, and he also works great with Tailwind/T-wave setup. Snarl is to help with Special Def and put -1 on threats like Sylveon or surprise special Dragapult, Dragon Pulse and Flash Cannon are for stab and more coverage, and Thunderbolt is to surprise Gyarados, Charizard, or Lapras and provide more coverage for the team's weaknesses. 220 Spe again allows him to outspeed most of the 'mons he needs to outspeed, with the 36 HP adding a touch extra bulk to survive, but I'm not married to that spread and believe it could be open to improvement. I think trying out max Spe and Timid would be worthwhile here.

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Incineroar @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Acrobatics / U-Turn
- Darkest Lariat
- Flare Blitz

This is a very odd Incineroar set as well, but I've found it to be very surprising and tricky. With Incineroar's bulk, he can tank a lot of super effective hits and smack back with +2 moves that delete Pokemon in return. The right reads make Acrobatics insanely powerful, but U-Turn adds synergy with Intimidate, I've tried out both and find both useful for different reasons. Tailwind/T-Wave from Whimsicott and Grimmsnarl help with his mediocre Speed, and max Atk and HP ensure high damage and high survivability. I'm also not married to Incineroar here, and have tried multiple mons in this slot, though I think Incineroar works best here.

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The goal of this team is essentially to use Obstagoon, Whimsicott, and Grimmsnarl to mess with the opponent enough to set up for Dracovish, Duralodon, and Incineroar to come in at the end for a late game sweep. If the right things get set up in the first few turns, it's forgivable to lose Obstagoon, Whimsicott, or Grimmsnarl early on and still sweep through the opponent in the end game with the heavy hitters, and in fact that's how most games go. I like how the team is set-up and think some Pokemon like Whimsicott, Obstagoon, and Dracovish are a little irreplaceable in what they do for the team, but I think there are definitely ways to improve it, and I'd like to test out different spreads to see if they work better. Any feedback is appreciated!
 
This team is not that balanced. Grimmsnarl is meant only to be on HO teams. Also, the movesets here are pretty unorthodox, no offense. Your team is also vulnerable to Fighting-types like Conkeldurr, Ground-types like Drill, and Fairies like Clef. Honestly, you don’t have a good type coverage. Three Dark-types in a team can easily be crushed by Conkeldurr. Two Dragons can easily be beat by Clefable or Sylveon. Two Fairies can easily be beat by Drill. Here are the changes I propose. Note: This isn’t complete.

Major Changes:

Whimsicott —> Clefable or Sylveon

Obstagoon lacks recovery moves, so Clefable and Sylveon make good teammates. Honestly, Clefable is a staple amongst Balanced teams, as it helps in the longevity of offensive Pokémon.

Duraludon —> Bisharp

Your team lacks a revenge killer. You don’t need Grimmsnarl to check Dragapult. Bisharp makes for a premier Dragapult check, due to its access to Sucker Punch.

Incineroar —> Mandibuzz

Mandibuzz can also tank hits. Because your team lacks hazard removal, Mandibuzz fulfills that role. It also serves as a check against Dragapult and Aegislash.


Minor Changes:

Dracovish:

Why Leech Life? Bug-type moves have little coverage at all. A better option would be either Crunch or Outrage.

Grimmsnarl:

Just use Spirit Break instead of something unorthodox like
 
This team is not that balanced. Grimmsnarl is meant only to be on HO teams. Also, the movesets here are pretty unorthodox, no offense. Your team is also vulnerable to Fighting-types like Conkeldurr, Ground-types like Drill, and Fairies like Clef. Honestly, you don’t have a good type coverage. Three Dark-types in a team can easily be crushed by Conkeldurr. Two Dragons can easily be beat by Clefable or Sylveon. Two Fairies can easily be beat by Drill. Here are the changes I propose. Note: This isn’t complete.

Major Changes:

Whimsicott —> Clefable or Sylveon

Duraludon —> Bisharp

Incineroar —> Mandibuzz

Minor Changes:</p><p></p><p>Dracovish:

Why Leech Life? Bug-type moves have little coverage at all. A better option would be either Crunch or Outrage.

Crunch seems unnecessary to me on Dracovish, as I already have, as you said, too many dark types. I might go outrage.

However, why are you saying I have too many dark types and then recommending more dark types for the team? If anything I would switch Grimmsnarl out for Clef or Sylveon, Whimsicott is valuable for fast Tailwind setup and Leech Seed aids in the recovery problem. I will look into Clef/Sylveon for Grimmsnarl though!

Hazards aren't too much of an issue for this team, as spikes and toxic spikes are rare and Obstagoon benefits from T-spikes while Duralodon is just immune. As far as rocks go, only one of my pokemon is weak to them at the moment. I'll think about testing with Mandibuzz, but in this meta I haven't noticed hazards being as much of a staple as it was in previous gens, and I haven't faced too many problems when testing except for one T-spikes Wheezing. I'm almost thinking Rhyperior as an Incineroar sub, since it adds Ground/Rock coverage which would be nice.
 
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Crunch seems unnecessary to me on Dracovish, as I already have, as you said, too many dark types. I might go outrage.

However, why are you saying I have too many dark types and then recommending more dark types for the team? If anything I would switch Grimmsnarl out for Clef or Sylveon, Whimsicott is valuable for fast Tailwind setup and Leech Seed aids in the recovery problem. I will look into Clef/Sylveon for Grimmsnarl though!

Hazards aren't too much of an issue for this team, as spikes and toxic spikes are rare and Obstagoon benefits from T-spikes while Duralodon is just immune. As far as rocks go, only one of my pokemon is weak to them at the moment. I'll think about testing with Mandibuzz, but in this meta I haven't noticed hazards being as much of a staple as it was in previous gens, and I haven't faced too many problems when testing except for one T-spikes Wheezing. I'm almost thinking Rhyperior as an Incineroar sub, since it adds Ground/Rock coverage which would be nice.
If you go Outrage on Dracovish, your opponent might switch in something like Clef or Sylveon. Toxic will drain Obstagoon faster than Burn. Well forgive me if I was being too harsh.
 
This team is not bad, although it does not look very balanced, it is rather offensive. I find it strange not playing with Stealth Rock which is vital. It cannot be dispensed with.

On Whimsicott's strategy I admit that it can be effective as well as creative. It can be a good support to recover energy or hit first with Tailwind. But honestly I would make the change for Clefable as you have been told. The set with Teleport and Wish fits perfectly here. It works very well in more balanced teams and so you cover the fighting a bit.

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Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Teleport
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect

the other pokemon will thank you because it is necessary if you have no other recovery method.

I'm contemplating minor change over Obstagoon with its guts walbreaker version. It's not a bad idea as it is but I think I would gain more direct potential like that. Otherwise there is not much variety. His characteristic move seems useful to me. Obstruct is like Protect only that it lowers the opponent's defense if it makes a contact move.

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Obstagoon @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- Obstruct / Bulk Up

too much dark type can be a problem. An Incineroar change for Rotom H may be fine. You are no longer neutral or weak to fairies and you earn something for spam EQ.

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Rotom-Heat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Defog

Seeing the style and direction this is taking, I would try this set at Grimmsnarl that may come better.

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Grimmsnarl @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Play Rough / Taunt
- Darkest Lariat
- Drain Punch

you can take advantage of his ability in priority with Bulk up. I personally love this set that can go well above all vs passive pokemon

Finally I insist that playing with SR is very necessary and something that should always be kept in mind. Seismitoad may be a good option but the sacrificed would be in Vish. Well in any case I leave it here.

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Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earth Power
- Scald

on the other hand if you don't want to try this last change you can always use SR in Duraludon here its set.

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Duraludon @ Leftovers
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpA
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon

well I think I didn't miss anything. That said it would look like this:
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Obstagoon @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- Obstruct / Bulk Up

Dracovish @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Crunch
- Psychic Fangs
- Outrage
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Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earth Power
- Scald

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Teleport
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect

Duraludon @ Leftovers
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpA
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon

Grimmsnarl @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Play Rough / Taunt
- Darkest Lariat
- Drain Punch

Rotom-Heat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Defog
 
I think what previous commenters are failing to acknowledge is this part of the post:
Duraludon-Gmax

As anyone who's been playing OU at all would probably know, Dynamax and Gigantamax have been banned from most Smogon formats for months now. This part alone implies to me that this is not actually a team for OU, or any Smogon format to begin with. Therefore, there is no reason to give advice that's relevant to the OU tier. The fact that Indeedee and Dusclops are being made out as relevant calcs for Obstagoon's damage output only further solidifies this in my mind.

Tigere, in the future I think you'd do better to dig around the forums a bit more. We have the SS Other Teams forum for non-OU formats which, assuming my previous points were correct, is probably what you're looking for. Since you're running WhimsiVish I'd assume this is for a doubles format, in which case you'd want to post it on that forum under either the "VGC" or "SS Doubles OU" prefixes; whichever one you're using this for. If this is for a singles format, you'd want to instead use the "Battle Stadium" prefix.
 
oh i knew about the ban dynamax gmax but I overlooked it. I got so focused on trying to help that I overlooked it. Still I keep what I said. I don't usually play OU but I was informed.
 
As anyone who's been playing OU at all would probably know, Dynamax and Gigantamax have been banned from most Smogon formats for months now. This part alone implies to me that this is not actually a team for OU, or any Smogon format to begin with. Therefore, there is no reason to give advice that's relevant to the OU tier. The fact that Indeedee and Dusclops are being made out as relevant calcs for Obstagoon's damage output only further solidifies this in my mind.

That's so interesting, when I was playing earlier this month it allowed me to dynamax in OU doubles. If something has changed since then I'll take that into account...
 
This team is not bad, although it does not look very balanced, it is rather offensive. I find it strange not playing with Stealth Rock which is vital. It cannot be dispensed with.

On Whimsicott's strategy I admit that it can be effective as well as creative. It can be a good support to recover energy or hit first with Tailwind. But honestly I would make the change for Clefable as you have been told. The set with Teleport and Wish fits perfectly here. It works very well in more balanced teams and so you cover the fighting a bit.

I like this feedback a lot, thank you!

It's been a long time since I've played competitive...last time I was really into it was early gen 7. I'm trying to get back into it and don't know the meta super well yet. I appreciate all the feedback :)
 
That's so interesting, when I was playing earlier this month it allowed me to dynamax in OU doubles. If something has changed since then I'll take that into account...

Dmax is definitely allowed in Doubles OU. The key is that this forum says OU and not Doubles OU. SS Doubles OU is also in the separate forum as I mentioned.
 
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