It's funny that you mention it that way because Chloe was banned from the Pokepride server on Thursday "for leaking sensitive staff information" so why would Chloe currently be in there...
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Social LGBTQIA+
- Thread starter dhelmise
- Start date
This is from Raimon:
“Hi, I don't know most of the people engaged in the LGBT community and those I do know dont like me lol. but that doesn't rly matter, I just wanted to post it here, because I haven't told anyone else irl as I dont feel comfortable doing it yet, and I am Smogon banned but I still feel somewhat involved w mons in general hence why I thought id ask someone to help me post this, ty Aidan. anyway, recently id been contemplating my sexuality and after giving it much thought and some experimentation, right now I like both girls and guys, so, bisexual. I dont rly know what else to say but I just wanted to say this somewhere bc id sorta been bottling it up, and I know most ppl who see this probably dont care too much but I just wanted to put it somewhere, have a good day everyone!”
“Hi, I don't know most of the people engaged in the LGBT community and those I do know dont like me lol. but that doesn't rly matter, I just wanted to post it here, because I haven't told anyone else irl as I dont feel comfortable doing it yet, and I am Smogon banned but I still feel somewhat involved w mons in general hence why I thought id ask someone to help me post this, ty Aidan. anyway, recently id been contemplating my sexuality and after giving it much thought and some experimentation, right now I like both girls and guys, so, bisexual. I dont rly know what else to say but I just wanted to say this somewhere bc id sorta been bottling it up, and I know most ppl who see this probably dont care too much but I just wanted to put it somewhere, have a good day everyone!”
I'm bisexual.
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EDIT: I've taken down the remainder of this post because I personally do not stand by what I wrote anymore.
Even the more valid discussion points I bring up are also needlessly confrontational and poorly worded. Obviously, the replies are still there if you want to read through the discussion.
I wish everyone in this thread well on the journey to self-acceptance.
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EDIT: I've taken down the remainder of this post because I personally do not stand by what I wrote anymore.
Even the more valid discussion points I bring up are also needlessly confrontational and poorly worded. Obviously, the replies are still there if you want to read through the discussion.
I wish everyone in this thread well on the journey to self-acceptance.
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im not gonna get drawn into most of this post strewn w misunderstandings, poor use of evidence (the post you identify as evidence of gender essentialisms itt is actually entirely unproblematic), and various phobias (nonbinary phobia mixed with a good dose of transphobia) disguised as objective truths, but as has already been said, a woman, for the purposes of 'objective' political discourse of the type youre trying to establish, is someone who experiences oppression on the basis of being identified within the class of women. this correctly addresses any misunderstandings about various privileges trans ppl may or may not have from their 'previous identities' of 'socialization' and privileges they may have gained from transitioning. It also allows us to distinguish the most likely co-conspirators from ppl who do not have the same political interests as us.
finally, blaming transgender ppl for reinforcing traditional gender conceptions is extremely ironic and desperately in need of reframing: transgender ppl often experience pressure to conform to traditional molds because they understandably want recognition, and in the same way ciswomen are pressured to conform, and typically the pursuit of this recognition is as objectively harmful to trans ppl as it is to their cis counterparts, for example you've probably heard of toxic masculinity, but it is just as easy to conceive of toxic femininity. In fact, it is probably the case that striving for recognition in a hyper-realized and eventually increasingly destructive way is the operative feature of the gender binary.
I don't generally get too deep into debates about things like this, but I do feel the need to point out that, at least in my experience, transgender people and the transgender community do not "reinforce ... gender roles." In fact, I have noticed the opposite; I know several gender non-conforming trans people who seem to be accepted by the transgender community. There are plenty of trans women who dress, act, or do things that are traditionally "masculine" under gender roles, and plenty of trans men who dress, act, or do things that are traditionally "feminine" per the outmoded apparatus of traditional gender roles.
hi im just gonna make this post quick since you can read my original coming out post for this specific topic here. said post is cringe and looking back has numerous examples of me appropriating lgbtq+ culture and re-enforcing stereotypes about gender confusion, but the point behind the post still stands. im nonbinary (im using this instead of genderfluid because ive come to change my understandings of the meanings of both words). i very much enjoy the pronouns they/them, but im not going to complain if someone uses he/him to refer to me because its the internet. i originally forced myself back into the closet in september of 2018 because i was in the middle of being doxxed and got scared of something getting sent to my parents, and on top of the fear of this being sent to my parents, i was scared of the numerous slurs i would have been called because i had witnessed it happen to one of my friends. i was still being called f*ggot and other similar things, but those didnt (and still dont) personally damage my character because i was more desensitized to them at the time. hope this clears things up!
Hi.
I'm a little bit worried about posting this bc I'm bad at writing sometimes and I've had problems getting my thoughts across properly.
So I'm bisexual, but that isn't really an issue for me.
The 'problem' is that I've been reconsidering my gender identity recently (the past 5 or so months) but I have no idea what to do with this. I wanted to ask for help here but felt I couldn't
So, basically, I'm biologically male but want to be female. But, I don't suffer from gender dysphoria and don't find it appropriate to physically or biological transition, especially considering how recent I've been feeling this way.
I say only 5 months, obviously I've been considering it much longer than that, but only took the idea seriously for 5 months.
I don't know if it's appropriate to identify as female. I don't know or understand the politics of that and that's kind of the issue.
I asked on the happy place on showdown and the users there were helpful. They basically just said that even if I don't change physically I can still be valid.
My worry stems from the appropriateness of me feeling this way. I was originally just going to discuss my feelings with this thread and/or the discord. But after reading a bunch of the highly nuanced and political discussions that's been happening here I'm increasingly scared of 'coming out' in fear of being deemed 'incorrect' or that because I don't have issues as dramatic or drastic as people who actually suffer from genuine related problems that I'm not going to be taken seriously. Not feeling like it's safe to talk sucks.
Oh and I'm not complaining about the discussions (the more the better) or calling anyone out or anything like that, it's just that it feels like that if I slip up I'll be chewed out for it and that's mostly just my anxiety sure, but it still sucks to feel like that about s safe space.
I'm a little bit worried about posting this bc I'm bad at writing sometimes and I've had problems getting my thoughts across properly.
So I'm bisexual, but that isn't really an issue for me.
The 'problem' is that I've been reconsidering my gender identity recently (the past 5 or so months) but I have no idea what to do with this. I wanted to ask for help here but felt I couldn't
So, basically, I'm biologically male but want to be female. But, I don't suffer from gender dysphoria and don't find it appropriate to physically or biological transition, especially considering how recent I've been feeling this way.
I say only 5 months, obviously I've been considering it much longer than that, but only took the idea seriously for 5 months.
I don't know if it's appropriate to identify as female. I don't know or understand the politics of that and that's kind of the issue.
I asked on the happy place on showdown and the users there were helpful. They basically just said that even if I don't change physically I can still be valid.
My worry stems from the appropriateness of me feeling this way. I was originally just going to discuss my feelings with this thread and/or the discord. But after reading a bunch of the highly nuanced and political discussions that's been happening here I'm increasingly scared of 'coming out' in fear of being deemed 'incorrect' or that because I don't have issues as dramatic or drastic as people who actually suffer from genuine related problems that I'm not going to be taken seriously. Not feeling like it's safe to talk sucks.
Oh and I'm not complaining about the discussions (the more the better) or calling anyone out or anything like that, it's just that it feels like that if I slip up I'll be chewed out for it and that's mostly just my anxiety sure, but it still sucks to feel like that about s safe space.
Welcome! It may be considered controversial in some circles, as I can't speak for everybody, but I'm of the opinion that you don't need to have gender dysphoria to be trans. Personally, I realized that I had subconsciously created this mental block towards not feeling dysphoric. It wasn't until I started transitioning that I began to retroactively recognize that those unexplained feelings were due to dysphoria. Not every single trans person experiences obvious gender dysphoria early on in development. Sometimes, it doesn't occur until later in life. Sometimes, it doesn't occur until beginning transitioning. Sometimes, it just doesn't happen. It doesn't matter. If you're happier as a different gender, then you're happier as a different gender.
Each person's journey is unique however, and it's ultimately for you to decide. There isn't an incorrect option and you will always remain valid. The best I, and really any other supportive person, can offer is the space and time to explore yourself in your quest to live as authentically as possible. It's difficult and confusing, but things do become clearer.
Good luck with your journey :)
To follow on from Unicorns- if there's anyone that holds such opinions about trans people who don't have dysphoria in the Discord, I've certainly never heard them speak up about it. There's no competition going on to see who's the worst off and deserves to be respected- if anyone does that, they aren't worth your time.
Also, grats on the big step in self-discovery! And good luck with everything going forward :]
No no, no one specifically brought any of this up. It's just that the highly nuanced political discussions around gender made me feel as if just "deciding" I wanted to be a female made me inappropriate and wouldn't be accepted.
Thank you both, you're very good people and incredibly helpful
Dysphoria is not something that everyone experiences the same way or in the same degree. I can't tell you what's right for you, but I would not let the fact that other's might have worse dysphoria hold you back from recognizing that you are trans. I know that I felt the same way you do about it for a while and I wish that I had recognized sooner that I was valid. I think it's like Unicorns said, I had mentally blocked out the possiblity that what I was expiriencing was actualy dysphoria. Even now my dysphoria is mostly social and not phsyical. There are definitely people how will try to tell you otherwise and I would recommend ignoring them.
Hey, feel a bit of a kinship here with how you're describing your uncertainty and unwillingness to step into places you don't feel entitled to. Long story short I identified that a part of my psyche was definitively female but also identified that I firmly did not experience gender dysphoria. My desire was to have both parts of me expressed in harmony and to have my psyche and body to an extent be mutable to adapt to such a situation. What I came to was deciding to identify as genderfluid, as that was what I felt best expressed the core of who I was.
For whomever you are, the only label that matters is the one that you feel best defines you, if it needs definition at all. If you want to be female and feel a wrongness being anything else you are definitively female. If there's nuance there and you embrace both masculinity and femininity then perhaps a label in between, such as non-binary or genderfluid, may be more appropriate for you. Whichever you decide on is what is right.
I understand how it feels to not have a space to talk about it too because compared to the struggles of LBGT folk or trans folk who experience discrimination what merit does my/our personal uncertainty carry? But you have the right to question yourself regardless of the struggles others face, and I know in my own case its helped me gain an even deeper understanding and empathy for those selfsame struggles.
If you just need a place to talk, take a quick search down discord, there are places where you can just talk without expectation of answer or judgement.
Hey, I want to get something off my chest. I never thought much about my sexuality as it was just not something that came to my mind very much. However, since the past few months I have been questioning it more frequently. To be honest, some of the thoughts I had recently have been a hot mess that doesn't make any sense. Not to me, anyway, probably because I'm not all too familiar with the LGBT community. I'm a cis-guy, and totally fine with that identity btw. I'm completely fine on the gender front, so this post isn't really about that, which I think is relevant to establish.
The tea is that I think I'm asexual, maybe...
I do experience some sexual attraction to other people (both men and woman, but in different kind of ways), but I'm really uncomfortable with the thought of having sex myself. I have never had a crush on someone before, and my feelings towards other people never go beyond: "that person is hot". That said, I do think I might not be aromantic. The idea of having a romantic relationship sounds pretty nice to me, it's just the body contact and sex part that turns me away. Like, my libido is just none-existant.
Because of all that, I feel like I'm in this weird limbo where it's impossible for me to truly find out my sexuality. I don't put any effort into getting into a relationship, even just to try it, because of my lack of a sexdrive (being a major introvert doesn't help). But then, I'll never know whether I like or dislike being in a relationship because I've never tried it. I have this feeling of having to try out having sex to know for sure if I really don't like it. But not having that drive is kind of the point of being ace, isn't it? What if I really haven't FoUnD ThE RIghT PeRsON? Are there other asexual or questioning people who feel something similar?
When I try to put a label on myself, there are two possibilties, neither of which really make sense to me. The first is that I'm a bisexual heteroromantic, who likes looking at others but doesn't actually want to have sex with them myself. Is this even a thing? Like, do you have to have some sort of personal sexual drive in order to be hetero-, homo- or bisexual, or does a lack of that drive automatically make you asexual? The second option is asexual heteroromantic, but with a bit of bisexual energy, I guess. I feel like ace heteroromantic doesn't really work for me either since it seemingly leaves out my physical attraction to men. Come to think of it, my attraction to men is almost like a sort of fetish. I enjoy the sight of the male body and all that, but I am really uncomfortable with the thought of being in a relationship with another man, even if it's just romantic.
So yeah, make it make sense, because it doesn't make sense to me. It's like the more I dwell on it, the further I get from knowing the answer to my sexuality mystery. Maybe I really just need some extra time to sort through my thoughts. Sorry for the ramble, but also thanks for reading.
The tea is that I think I'm asexual, maybe...
I do experience some sexual attraction to other people (both men and woman, but in different kind of ways), but I'm really uncomfortable with the thought of having sex myself. I have never had a crush on someone before, and my feelings towards other people never go beyond: "that person is hot". That said, I do think I might not be aromantic. The idea of having a romantic relationship sounds pretty nice to me, it's just the body contact and sex part that turns me away. Like, my libido is just none-existant.
Because of all that, I feel like I'm in this weird limbo where it's impossible for me to truly find out my sexuality. I don't put any effort into getting into a relationship, even just to try it, because of my lack of a sexdrive (being a major introvert doesn't help). But then, I'll never know whether I like or dislike being in a relationship because I've never tried it. I have this feeling of having to try out having sex to know for sure if I really don't like it. But not having that drive is kind of the point of being ace, isn't it? What if I really haven't FoUnD ThE RIghT PeRsON? Are there other asexual or questioning people who feel something similar?
When I try to put a label on myself, there are two possibilties, neither of which really make sense to me. The first is that I'm a bisexual heteroromantic, who likes looking at others but doesn't actually want to have sex with them myself. Is this even a thing? Like, do you have to have some sort of personal sexual drive in order to be hetero-, homo- or bisexual, or does a lack of that drive automatically make you asexual? The second option is asexual heteroromantic, but with a bit of bisexual energy, I guess. I feel like ace heteroromantic doesn't really work for me either since it seemingly leaves out my physical attraction to men. Come to think of it, my attraction to men is almost like a sort of fetish. I enjoy the sight of the male body and all that, but I am really uncomfortable with the thought of being in a relationship with another man, even if it's just romantic.
So yeah, make it make sense, because it doesn't make sense to me. It's like the more I dwell on it, the further I get from knowing the answer to my sexuality mystery. Maybe I really just need some extra time to sort through my thoughts. Sorry for the ramble, but also thanks for reading.
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Hello everyone, I'm a boy, my name is Nelson, I'm 20 years old, I'm a French national, I'm a person of colour and I'm bisexual. I'm going to tell you my story about my sexual orientation, I thank my buddy Gmansour20 who has been an attentive ear for me for having told him everything with precise details and I'm going to share it with you. Since the age of 13, after sports education classes, I was in the boys' locker room, it seemed strange to me to look at a guy without a shirt on. But at the time, it didn't matter to me because I was young and innocent. Later, when I was in high school, that's when I realized that I was bisexual and that my classmates abused me a lot, criticized me and all the names that for them characterized us completely. I withdrew a bit and once I cried on the bus home and my parents didn't even know about it and my sexual orientation. I prefer to keep it a secret because everyone has their own little secret, this one is mine. Then I fell in love twice with my heterosexual friends and only one of them knew about it and he took it very well because he wanted to find me a guy. Then when I got to university, that's when I started dating a lot of guys at once, it was 2018, and it was just a one-night stand and nothing more. I just wanted to feel like I needed someone else to be intimate with and sometimes more. I only regretted one relationship because I didn't protect myself and then in class my gym teacher was constantly telling us about diseases you can get without protecting yourself... I almost went through a phase of burnout. I didn't feel as good mentally as my body understood the message and I had like a lump in my stomach every day during 6 months. And today I feel good, don't worry, I'm living it very well and I also feel good for all the actions I've done to feel much better and it made my parents proud of the little projects I've done so far. For now, I intend to tell the wife of my children because I want to start a family and tell them what I went through as a teenager. The mistake I may have made is regret, it made me feel very guilty and put me in a neutral state without positive emotions. But now I know what I need to do to grow more and more. That's it, my story is over, if you want to give me a message, I leave you my discord Lancer#0164. I take full responsibility for my bisexuality which I intend to keep secret, and I know that the only solution to any problem is to talk about it, and it's been incredible to tell you about the experiences I've had in my life. Take care and protect yourself eveyone. 
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So! Some things have kinda changed from when I posted this and I think I'm ready to open up about it. While I initially came out as bisexual that has somewhat changed since then. I've never really understood what sexual attraction is. As a young teenager I was always told that, sexual attraction will come eventually but for me that never really happened. I've always thought 'sexual attraction? Sounds fake lol.' I learned how to fake it to fit in and was pretty successful up until my early 20s. At one point I felt safe and comfortable enough to talk about these feelings with a friend. At the time I was dating this guy and I was concerned about him being upset about me not being sexually attracted to him. My friend told me that 'you must not really love him if you don't want to sleep with him.' And this broke my heart and forever changed my friendship with this girl. I felt broken for not wanting to sleep with my boyfriend or anyone. It's just not something that I want to ever do. I've had friends show me pictures of hot guys and how attracted to them they are and I've always been like '???'
The word for this is called 'asexual'. Asexuality is a lack of sexual attraction. Because of what my friend said to me, I've since then felt broken and sad that I may never find someone who will accept me for me. Dating has been incredibly difficult because of this. Right now, I'm currently taking time out from dating or seeking a relationship and learning more about myself and how to care for myself. My offical label is asexual biromantic but this could be subject to change. I know that I'm not broken anymore, just different from others and that is okay. I do also hope to one day be in a relationship that is fulfilling and wonderful. So yeah, I'm a Biromantic Asexual. :)
Hello and welcome!
I feel like you already know how you feel and know what gender you are, so I won't comment on those (Congrats on that part btw!) and I'll just address your concerns.
Gender is not defined by your physical body; rather gender is a social construct. Gender norms aren't a universal phenomenon and they change from culture to culture, meaning that they are social in nature. Think of it like this: say a cis-man got into a car accident and sustained irreparable damage to his penis. Would that make him a woman? Of course not, because gender is in your head. The question of "Do I really become a girl if I just wake up one day and decide I am one?" is a difficult one to answer. The way that I think about it is that I always have been a girl, but I couldn't figure out the words. That's part of the idea of self-discovery.
In most traditional Western cultures, the man is the breadwinner while the woman cares for the home. In some other world cultures, the opposite holds true. There aren't any universal criteria determining what is a man or what is a woman. Definitions change over time. That's a part of how language, cultures, and ultimately the world, works. Look at modern Western gender roles: there are stay-at-home dad's, women in the military, etc. Gender has proven a very fluid and non-set concept. Similarly, many cultures around the world have options for third and even more genders. Off the top of my head, some Native American tribes have genders known as two-spirit and Hindu cultures have third, in-between genders. And cultures change over time. To imply that third- and non-binary options are a recent development is just kind of Western-centric thinking. Recently we've discovered proof that transgender people existed at least 4500 years ago!
Your last point is something that just happens sometimes unfortunately. People can be really shitty and they can create these irrational mental blocks ("only women with breasts and ovaries are real women!" Ignoring women that have undergone mastectomies or hysterectomies; "I'm not sexually attracted to this person now that I know they're trans!" ignoring that's not how attraction works). There are cis-men out there that will see a trans-woman as a woman though. They are harder to find, but they do exist. My only suggestion would be to just keep trying. #NotAllMen are transphobic garbage. And regarding telling a partner if you're trans or not, that's a controversial topic in the trans community. My best advice is that you do need to be concerned about the possibility of the guy reacting violently. It's super shitty, but that's what our culture dictated is alright. Perhaps non-coincidentally, that's something that cis-women generally fear about cis-men as well.
I'll end this by dropping some links below.
https://www.pride.com/trans/2020/3/31/5-amazing-trans-women-you-didnt-learn-about-history-class
https://www.pride.com/trans/2020/3/31/5-amazing-trans-men-you-didnt-learn-about-history-class
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history
I feel like you already know how you feel and know what gender you are, so I won't comment on those (Congrats on that part btw!) and I'll just address your concerns.
Gender is not defined by your physical body; rather gender is a social construct. Gender norms aren't a universal phenomenon and they change from culture to culture, meaning that they are social in nature. Think of it like this: say a cis-man got into a car accident and sustained irreparable damage to his penis. Would that make him a woman? Of course not, because gender is in your head. The question of "Do I really become a girl if I just wake up one day and decide I am one?" is a difficult one to answer. The way that I think about it is that I always have been a girl, but I couldn't figure out the words. That's part of the idea of self-discovery.
In most traditional Western cultures, the man is the breadwinner while the woman cares for the home. In some other world cultures, the opposite holds true. There aren't any universal criteria determining what is a man or what is a woman. Definitions change over time. That's a part of how language, cultures, and ultimately the world, works. Look at modern Western gender roles: there are stay-at-home dad's, women in the military, etc. Gender has proven a very fluid and non-set concept. Similarly, many cultures around the world have options for third and even more genders. Off the top of my head, some Native American tribes have genders known as two-spirit and Hindu cultures have third, in-between genders. And cultures change over time. To imply that third- and non-binary options are a recent development is just kind of Western-centric thinking. Recently we've discovered proof that transgender people existed at least 4500 years ago!
Your last point is something that just happens sometimes unfortunately. People can be really shitty and they can create these irrational mental blocks ("only women with breasts and ovaries are real women!" Ignoring women that have undergone mastectomies or hysterectomies; "I'm not sexually attracted to this person now that I know they're trans!" ignoring that's not how attraction works). There are cis-men out there that will see a trans-woman as a woman though. They are harder to find, but they do exist. My only suggestion would be to just keep trying. #NotAllMen are transphobic garbage. And regarding telling a partner if you're trans or not, that's a controversial topic in the trans community. My best advice is that you do need to be concerned about the possibility of the guy reacting violently. It's super shitty, but that's what our culture dictated is alright. Perhaps non-coincidentally, that's something that cis-women generally fear about cis-men as well.
I'll end this by dropping some links below.
https://www.pride.com/trans/2020/3/31/5-amazing-trans-women-you-didnt-learn-about-history-class
https://www.pride.com/trans/2020/3/31/5-amazing-trans-men-you-didnt-learn-about-history-class
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history
I understand the desire to establish a rich tapestry of LGBT history and to situate our own identities as having evolved from this historical context, but it is simply false.
For starters, Gender as we understand it is a Western tool of colonial repression. It was imported as a mechanism for demonising indigenous culture and perceived sexual and gendered deviance, as well as for enforcing colonial supremacy by forcing natives to adopt Western gender roles. Pointing to deviations in gender amongst non-Western cultures as evidence of deviations from gender in general makes no sense. These cultures had fundamentally different understandings of gender, and are not even remotely analogous to our current understandings of gender or transness. In fact, drawing equivalencies between transness and Indigenous genders is quite offensive and colonial – it seeks to justify these genders on the terms of colonial understandings of gender, while at the same time the settler is attempting to draw legitimacy from them, even while these people are the ones who face the brunt of the effects of colonial attempts to enforce a rigid gender binary.
The same is true of historical figures. Modern notions of sexuality and gender don’t emerge until at least Victorian times, and attempting to impute our understandings of gender and sexuality onto these people is at best ahistorical and at worst strips them of their autonomy. It is meaningless to point to historical figures 4500 or 1500 or 500 years ago and dub them gay, bi, or trans. Their relationships to gender and sexuality were so different to our own that similar identities did not exist as we understand them. It is more obviously harmful when these terms are applied to people who lived closer to the present who used different language to describe themselves and their experiences. Erasing the complexities of LGBT history and politics by declaring someone who presented in a gender non-conforming way as merely “trans” disrespects that person’s autonomy and obfuscates the often confusing interplay between gender and sexuality that people still experience today – people who certainly aren’t helped by this disrespectful shoehorning of labels onto people who didn’t use them in an attempt to paper over that complexity.
I agree with 100% of your post and the criticism is sound.
The only issue, that I feel, is that there does need to be a balance between providing a faster, simplified answer and a more thorough, complex answer, such as yours. If an uneducated person asks a question and receives a complex and educated response, it won't mean anything to them. It'd be like speaking another language at them. If the response didn't "mean" anything to the uneducated person, then the answer will ultimately be lost on them and they will have never gained anything from it.
LGBTQ 101 versus higher-level concepts
There are many ways you can describe gender variance without reinforcing colonial oppression.
Yes, but if the person has no concept of the fact that colonial oppression occured/is still occuring, then they won't understand the answer.
How is this relevant at all? Simply explain the point without reference to any of this. Frankly, your first paragraph was probably sufficient, and elaborating on that is a clear example of explaining it simply without being reductive and colonial.
Unicorns said nothing wrong. The point they were making--clearly--is that gender roles are a social construct and that as such it has not been understood or expressed in the say ways in all times and places but are instead a product of the culture that defines them. Pointing to people in other times and places that either rejected the gender mores of their own culture or pointing to cultures who have different conceptions of gender and gender roles than we do is only meant to provide evidence that an essentialist view of gender is fallacious. Sure, ancient people's understanding and expression of sexuality and gender were complex and it's difficult to use modern terminology to describe their gender and sexual expression. But that really only adds to the original point being made, which is that gender is socially constructed.
Hurray! Welcome <3