Drugs Debate

[mf]

I've experimented with a couple of 'drugs' myself but still haven't really made up my mind about them. I would like to collect some thoughts! What do you make of drugs and drug users, and what are your reasons for your opinions? Do you have personal experience of losing friends or family to drugs (either your usage or theirs)? Do you think alcohol has any more of a right to be legal in our society than, say, cannabis? Should the law even govern over vices (as opposed to crimes)?

I think that the current attitudes of most people towards psychoactive drugs are quite uninformed at both ends of the spectrum. Some people have been brought up with the mantra of 'drugs are bad' and never do their own investigation or research; others just don't care about possible bad effects and do them anyway with the attitude of 'everyone does it'. The former group seem to be quite naive and frankly immature by rejecting the unfamiliar as it has been presented to them during their upbringing - I believe that everyone should at least question what they've been told to see if it's true. Similarly, I think it very immature to take drugs without properly knowing what they are or how they will affect you.

My parents (and the parents of my friends) are very wary of our smoking of weed but will quite happily get drunk or at least have a glass of wine or two with food every night. Their main concern seems to be the recent uncovering of a 'high' link between schizophrenia and cannabis use that is prompting an upgrade from class C to B in the UK. However, none of us have actually seen the statistics or evaluated the evidence - we've just been told that this correlation exists without real proof. If anyone can find a copy of the report that produced this result then I would very much like to see it!

I have no experience of any higher class drugs since I'm kinda afraid of what even a single use can do to you. I'd need to know a lot more about them before I tried them, and even then I'd probably still be anxious. They say the best place for drug experimentation is with close friends who are experienced and at the moment that circumstance hasn't presented itself!

I'd also like to see a distinction in the eyes of the law between a crime and a vice. A crime is an act that unfairly affects other people. A vice is a habit or act that [directly] affects the perpetrator only. I think it's ridiculous that you can be breaking the law by simply possessing a certain type of plant intended for purely personal use.

 

[DM]

I'm for the legalization of all drugs. What someone chooses to do to their own body on their own time is their own goddamn choice. If I wanted to, I could eat cheeseburgers and raw steak all day every day until my heart exploded in my chest, but I can't smoke some herb? Twinkies are far worse for your body than marijuana; take a wild guess which one occurs naturally on the earth.

From this, of course, the murder rate across the country would plunge. If you take away the reason that people kill each other, why would they still do it?

 

[Bleach]

I am a strong believer that people should be able to choose when it comes to drug usage. However, I personally believe that no good can come of them based on my experience.

 

[Altmer]

I don't like using drugs other than alcohol personally. I think the risk of addiction is far more than I want to handle. I like drinking occasionally, but it's not like I can't do without if I have to.

 

[Bioshock]

Yeah but they are afraid that if it is legal the death rate will actually escalate because they assume that people will drive while they are high.

Anyway I want it to be legalized. And I don't really have a problem with drug users.

edit: Actually, I meant weed should be legalized. Things like cocaine and heroine should not be legalized imo.

 

[Sovereign]

I'm for the legalization of all drugs. What someone chooses to do to their own body on their own time is their own goddamn choice. If I wanted to, I could eat cheeseburgers and raw steak all day every day until my heart exploded in my chest, but I can't smoke some herb? Twinkies are far worse for your body than marijuana; take a wild guess which one occurs naturally on the earth.

From this, of course, the murder rate across the country would plunge. If you take away the reason that people kill each other, why would they still do it?

I don't get why you brought the bolded part up. There are natural plants in the world that has poisons that can instantly kill humans. I'm not sure if you were implying that natural things are better, but they're not always.

 

[mf]

I don't like using drugs other than alcohol personally. I think the risk of addiction is far more than I want to handle. I like drinking occasionally, but it's not like I can't do without if I have to.

just fyi

Cannabis is less addictive than amphetamines, tobacco or alcohol, and does less harm to the body. [However,] it may be psychologically addictive. Heavy users can display aggressive impulses if their supply suddenly stops, a side effect similar to that of anabolic steroids

also
Do you think cannabis should be made legal?

Results so far:
Yes (17095 votes)

- 82.5%
No (3627 votes)

- 17.5%

 

[sbc]

I'm for the legalization of all drugs. What someone chooses to do to their own body on their own time is their own goddamn choice.

Yes but I doubt taxpayers would like to pay for your methadone treatment or for you to stay over night in hospital after an overdose or increased crime in the area because of addicts.

Drug abuse doesn't just affect yourself you know.

 

[Misty]

I used to be of the opinion that all drugs were bad, but I had some roommates who did weed and I became pretty ambivalent over that (though I will never do it myself).

Does anyone else find it strange that so many of our lawmakers have done drugs and yet all of them jump over themselves to support the archaic legislation against it?

 

[mf]

Yes but I doubt taxpayers would like to pay for your methadone treatment or for you to stay over night in hospital after an overdose

I think you have little faith in your 'taxpayers'. People contribute towards the community for the greater good, including helping out a fellow citizen after an accidental hospitalisation. It's the whole reason for taxes - paying for the services you and others have available. There's no argument for wrapping people up in bubble-wrap just so your tax dollars aren't spent helping them up after a fall.

In addition, you seem to be drawing the conclusion that legalisation of drugs would increase drug abuse. The line of logic you probably pursued was: If they're legal, they're used more. If they're used more, more people will become addicted and/or overdose. However, such linear logic isn't applicable to a real life situation - there are just far too many influences to consider. For example, research into non-addictive substances would likely be increased. It's also common for dealers to add in a lot of shit to their products, since they're not regulated - I have a dealer friend who cuts mdma with flour or baking powder and sells it to people. That's not healthy.

PS it's incredibly hard to overdose on cannabis, it's not like popping a few pills then feeling the effects after. If you're still able to roll a joint then the chances are you're still able to smoke it. I realise that this is only referring to cannabis but I think that would be the most widely used of all the current illegal drugs, were they legalised.

 

[CaptKirby]

The problem is that not everyone will do drugs in a way that will not harm others, as seen with obvious examples like drunk driving, and that is not even getting into the harm that is caused by people's personalities changing. That is not to say I am against legalization of drugs, especially pot, but I try not to take any drugs I do not have to at any time, even as minor as Advil.

 

[sbc]

I think you have little faith in your 'taxpayers'. People contribute towards the community for the greater good, including helping out a fellow citizen after an accidental hospitalisation. It's the whole reason for taxes - paying for the services you and others have available. There's no argument for wrapping people up in bubble-wrap just so your tax dollars aren't spent helping them up after a fall.

PS it's incredibly hard to overdose on cannabis, it's not like popping a few pills then feeling the effects after. If you're still able to roll a joint then the chances are you're still able to smoke it.

I don't think people entirely welcome paying for other people's stupidity. It's their choice to take drugs in the first place, I sure as hell wouldn't like to pay for someone's methadone course. What you're talking about is someone coming down with cancer or something that is not their fault, the most dangerous drugs like heroin and cocaine will never be legal because it would basically be allowing people to get addicted to the stuff and no-one would like the increased crime etc.

 

[metalScyther]

I'm 100% in favor of full-out legalization of every single drug known to man. You can say what you want, but any responsible usage of even the hardest drugs is still much more safe and rewarding to oneself, then say, eating at McDonalds everyday.

 

[Carl]

Does anyone else find it strange that so many of our lawmakers have done drugs and yet all of them jump over themselves to support the archaic legislation against it?

Legalizing anything traditionally deemed harmful, illegal and wrong tends to be a pretty radical proposition and the lawmakers still want to keep their jobs. Unfortunately, the voting majority are the people still against legalizing weed so the guy wanting to keep his job is going to form policies based on the people that will help him do so.

 

[Leechy]

Twinkies are far worse for your body than marijuana; take a wild guess which one occurs naturally on the earth.

-It's not really that much about damage to your body, but damage to your relationship between friends and family. Sure Twinkies can be dangerous to your body/health, but eating Twinkies won't make you act the way when you are on drugs. They won't make your mother stop wanting to see you, they won't make your friends and numerous girlfriends leave you.
Also it's a problem of money. After a few times, you get a full blown addiction to it; you will end up spending all your money on drugs and your job won't get you by.
-"occurs natrally on earth"? Carbon monoxide(spl?) is found naturally on earth too, and kills hundreds of people a year.

 

[Carl]

-"occurs natrally on earth"? Carbon monoxide(spl?) is found naturally on earth too, and kills hundreds of people a year.

The point was not meant to be so inclusive as to say "all natural things are good" and "all man made things are bad." It merely points out the fact that some things people do on a regular basis that are technically not "all natural" (like eating Twinkies) can be worse for someone's body than something deemed illegal (like smoking weed) that is technically "natural." If you look at it just from the perspective that "something legal is less healthy for you than something illegal", then it seems pretty foolish in comparison that whatever it is that's illegal is banned.

Based on your other comments, I think it would be best to know if you have any experience actually doing drugs whether it be drinking alcohol, smoking pot or anything harder than those or more generally friends and/or family who have and with what. I just have this feeling that the a majority of the split in this debate is going to be between people who have done drugs and people who haven't.

The farthest I've gone is smoked pot.

 

[Twilight :)]

I would have to say that it's somebody's choice in the end if they want to potentially fuck up their life.

The only viable reason I can see for associating with drugs is some type of income. I'm not saying it's a particularly good way to make said income, but it's pretty much the only borderline viable reason I can see for someone getting involved. The kids who do drugs to get "fucked up" just make me lol.

I get offered free weed all the time by "friends." I'm quite proud of myself for never giving in yet. It's been about 2 years.

 

[Misty]

For further reading on the politics of this situation:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/17438347/how_america_lost_the_war_on_drugs

 

[Cronkite]

I don't have a problem with drug use in general and there are far worse things that someone can do then experiment with "illegal" substances. I am not in favor of the legalization of marijuana though do think penalties against it should be reduced (i.e. you're caught using it public, you pay a $100 fine or something).

 

[Leechy]

Based on your other comments, I think it would be best to know if you have any experience actually doing drugs whether it be drinking alcohol, smoking pot or anything harder than those or more generally friends and/or family who have and with what. I just have this feeling that the a majority of the split in this debate is going to be between people who have done drugs and people who haven't.

The farthest I've gone is smoked pot.

I used to.

My cousin got me started beginning of this year, and when my family figured out that he did drugs, they all stopped talking to him. So, yeah, I didn't want to end up with my family hating me, so I stopped. I think he's in rehab now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I'm against legalization, but I'm just against the use of drugs. I agree you should be able to do whatever the hell you'd like to your body.

 

[Carl]

OK. I didn't mean to or want to assume anything which is why I asked. It's just easier to discuss something when you know where a person is coming from. I can definitely understand why you would stop.

 

[Jackal]

I will start off by saying the use of any drug that is not weed or alcohol is completely stupid and a waste of money, time and essentially life (this includes normal cigarettes). There is absolutely no "pro" to smoking cigs, and like 20 cons. Its just not worth it.

Alcohol is obviously ok if you use it responsibly, and know when to stop and when its appropriate to use it etc.

The big question is weed (and maybe something like LSD, that is used 100% for the trip and doesnt have many if any negative health effects). Im not gonna argue whether they should be legal or not, cause i doubt many people choose not to do weed because its illegal lol. The same people will use it either way.

Now, in my opinion, weed does not effect your health and wont kill you, but i believe fully that it makes you a different person. It basically adds a stigma to you that i really dont want to have on me, especially if you are a semi-consistent user. People will look at you and just throw you into the "drug user" class, which for most people, especially "clean" non drug using people, definitely provides alienation. It kind of changes you as a person, and i dont want this change. It also kind of changes life perspective, and ive found that people can just completely lose all motivation after using it. I have one friend who was valedictorian in grade 8, was incredibly smart and social and had such high motivation for success. High school comes, he tries weed. His whole outlook on life changes, he becomes alienated from the sober crowd, his grades fall (im not correlating the two, but lets face it, the lack of motivation often effects this part), his relationship with his parents fell apart, and now he is in university studying political science, hanging out with other weed users and just generally being alienated from mainstream society.

No, its not some tragic story, its just a choice. People who say it has no bearing on your life are wrong, it just brings you down a different path, influences what kind of people you hang out with and changes your idea of a good time. I have decided its not for me, but im not saying its not for everyone. Its just a choice we all have to make.

 

[DM]

I used to.

My cousin got me started beginning of this year, and when my family figured out that he did drugs, they all stopped talking to him. So, yeah, I didn't want to end up with my family hating me, so I stopped. I think he's in rehab now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I'm against legalization, but I'm just against the use of drugs. I agree you should be able to do whatever the hell you'd like to your body.

Fair enough. But I wonder why your cousin's family pushed him away solely based on the fact that he smoked pot. It seems that ever since Reefer Madness there is a completely blown-out-of-proportion mindframe on marijuana use that is still prevalent, even today. The propogandist message used in that film still resonates, which is truly sad, because in the grand scheme of things, I'd say your cousin got the raw deal just for toking up.

Alcohol is obviously ok if you use it responsibly, and know when to stop and when its appropriate to use it etc.

Ah, and herein lies the horrible hypocrisy when the drug debate arises.

Who are you, me, parents or anyone to say that one drug is okay but another is not? Alcohol thousands and thousands of deaths every year, underaged drinking is at a higher rate than ever, but it's okay when used responsibly? Alcohol is illegal for Americans under the age of 21, yet that doesn't stop EVERYONE from using it.

I'm kinda rambling and incoherent, I really didn't formulate this post too well because I wanted to be the first to jump on that.

 

[aura_lucario]

Although it seems I differ in many of your opinions, I do not believe that drugs should be legalized. I saw a comparison of drugs to alcohol somewhere, if I recall correctly, alcohol doesn't really lead into more harmful substance abuse; however, marijuana, for example has been shown to be a "gateway drug" that could lead into lethal substance abuse. I'm against any form of "drug" (i.e. alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, etc.), but the fact that certain drugs lead into worse drugs and worse drugs is enough to make it illegal in my opinion.
Furthermore, by making drugs legal, it will be easier to obtain, especially for younger "audiences." According to the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) (The ONDCP is American), a 2002 SAMHSA report comes to the conclusion that if you are a younger user of marijuana, you are more likely to use cocaine and heroine and become dependant on these drugs as an adult.

• Here is the EXACT wording from http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/drugfact/marijuana/index.html#go5:
  • A 2002 SAMHSA report, Initiation of Marijuana Use: Trends, Patterns and Implications, concludes that the younger children are when they first use marijuana, the more likely they are to use cocaine and heroin and become dependent on drugs as adults. The report found that 62 percent of adults age 26 or older who initiated marijuana before they were 15 years old reported that they had used cocaine in their lifetime. More than 9 percent reported they had used heroin and 53.9 percent reported non-medical use of psychotherapeutics. This compares to a 0.6 percent rate of lifetime use of cocaine, a 0.1 percent rate of lifetime use of heroin and a 5.1 percent rate of lifetime non-medical use of psychotherapeutics for those who never used marijuana. Increases in the likelihood of cocaine and heroin use and drug dependence are also apparent for those who initiate use of marijuana at any later age.
    

edit: Actually, I meant weed should be legalized. Things like cocaine and heroine should not be legalized imo.

Marijuana is called the Gateway Drug for a reason...

 

[Bologo]

Alright, guys I have a question about what would happen if marijuana was legalized.

If marijuana was legalized, couldn't the people selling it easily put some nicotine into it and essentially give addiction to the substance?

I mean, if they can put nicotine into cigarettes and make lots of money off of people's addictions, then why in the world wouldn't they just do the same for weed if it ever became legal?


As for my views on the subject, I personally despise cigarettes. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to ever do them, because, they do absolutely nothing good, or even fun for you, and they do oodles of bad things for you. Using them is, in my opinion, just being either a rebel without a cause, or just trying to look cool, which just doesn't work.

I've never done drugs in my life, but I personally think that smoking anything is bad. But weed is at least not addictive, and the only possible way it can be addictive is just by habit. Only people who do it a lot get into the habit of doing it, and like any habit, it can be hard to break, but it's not chemicals forcing the habit onto you at least.

Alcohol isn't terrible, but like weed, it needs to be done responsibly, and a lot of the precautions that come with alcohol, should also be taken into consideration for weed.

Although, with weed, you really do need to be careful with the smoking part, because there are people these days that do have asthma, there are people who are allergic to the smoke, and weed smoke is still second-hand smoke.

With that said, I'm ok with people doing weed as long as they don't do it around me. Sorry, but it stinks and I hate seeing it. That's my opinion and that's something that is not going to change. I don't mind it if I know my friends do that, but seeing it is a little nasty for me. As long as they're not just using it to run from reality.

For cigarettes, umm you know what? Knowing and seeing are on the same level for me. It doesn't make me think any less of my friends, since they're still the same person in my views, but it does make me question their judgmentental skills and ask myself whether they're just a rebel without a cause, or if they can't fix their bad days without relying on chemicals, or if they just feel like using a drug that does hoist, but hinder.

Alcohol, if my friends are using it responsibly, then ok, but if they're using it way too much, then it's just plain disgusting. I want to be friends with the real person, not the drunk in that person's body...my comment about staying in reality goes for this too.

Yeah, so those are my views, and please answer my question at the beginning of my post.