u must be fun to hangout with
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SPL XII - Commencement Thread
- Thread starter Wigglytuff
- Start date
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The story as I understood it was quite clear —
- Callous wanted Bluri to play a match.
- He continued to go to different sources in Bluri’s inner circle until he acquired his personal phone number.
- Callous then called Bluri over his personal phone about playing in a tournament.
- Callous being a late 20 something, early 30 something calling a then teenager out of the blue who never gave you his phone number is really worrisome, if you don’t take my view thats fine. This is different than Pearl calling Ricardo who are roughly the same age and have mutually provided eachother’s information or any other example in the thread.
If this has been debunked, this was all consensual and Bluri had previously provided Callous his personal information then I apologize for my ignorance and my spreading of fake news. If this has been debunked, I would also like to personally apologize to Callous for what I said. As a Pokemon boomer myself and someone who has known Callous for near 8-9 years, I was incredibly upset when I heard the story how it was told to me.
As has been said in the thread, in order to determine the necessary actions the only person who can really speak to what happened is Bluri.
- Callous wanted Bluri to play a match.
- He continued to go to different sources in Bluri’s inner circle until he acquired his personal phone number.
- Callous then called Bluri over his personal phone about playing in a tournament.
- Callous being a late 20 something, early 30 something calling a then teenager out of the blue who never gave you his phone number is really worrisome, if you don’t take my view thats fine. This is different than Pearl calling Ricardo who are roughly the same age and have mutually provided eachother’s information or any other example in the thread.
If this has been debunked, this was all consensual and Bluri had previously provided Callous his personal information then I apologize for my ignorance and my spreading of fake news. If this has been debunked, I would also like to personally apologize to Callous for what I said. As a Pokemon boomer myself and someone who has known Callous for near 8-9 years, I was incredibly upset when I heard the story how it was told to me.
As has been said in the thread, in order to determine the necessary actions the only person who can really speak to what happened is Bluri.
You know nothing (Jon Snow).
Stop talking when you dont actually know the facts.
Bluri wasnt a minor at the time. Callous just asked a friend of bluri IF theres a way to contact bluri. And THEN bluri gave his friend the answer to just give his number to callous. Thats just what people do when they wanna talk to each other. Give the other person their number. And btw thats something you do literally every day ifone is in university or trying to meet friends/new people. Stop being such a twat.
Sometimes the smart thing to do is to shut up. Embrace it.
I had a dream that I was tourbanned before SPL started again. I woke up and frantically checked my discord to confirm.
Thank god.
Please Quite Quiet Eo Ut Mortus TonyFlygon Luigi kjdaas don’t do this to me I really want to play.
Thank god.
Please Quite Quiet Eo Ut Mortus TonyFlygon Luigi kjdaas don’t do this to me I really want to play.
SiceXV
Banned deucer.
why was my post saying "name a better duo than 2020 smogon and cancel culture" deleted, but this clown Energy's false child predatory accusation post is still there? CBB is right, smogon now is more about politics than playing mons. Take me back to 2016 when there weren't as many power-hungry teens craving control and you could actually have fun playing showdown which SPL should be about; having fun and playing at the highest level with the BEST players
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Obviously, I respect you and always have. I was told the incident was 5 years ago which would have made Bluri a teen and was shared with logs that were fake and therefore, concerning.
As I said in my post, I was provided with misinformation pushed by SS and apologize for what I said. With that, given the facts, I don’t see the contacting of Bluri to be wrong whatsoever given that it was completely consensual.
bro, please shut up, ur being cringe and seems like u didnt learn first time, thnx.
Echoing Linear's and CBB's posts, I'm following Melle n Dizno by deleting my signup. Not like it mattered much, but I'm down with the ADV fellows to protest against that poor decision.
I hope SS finally break their silence so we can get an explanation on what in the world needed imperatively to be done so that they just threw TDs under the bus like that. Why do you need TDs in the first place if you can just bypass their power when a crybaby begs you to?
I hope SS finally break their silence so we can get an explanation on what in the world needed imperatively to be done so that they just threw TDs under the bus like that. Why do you need TDs in the first place if you can just bypass their power when a crybaby begs you to?
Seconding this. I've been part of his last snake team and I can for sure say that FlamingVictini was without doubt the most active member and builded the majority of teams/or has in some way been involved on anything that has been used. And indeed, if TDs are trying to blame somebody, then FlamingVictini should be of all people the last one to be blamed about this unfortunate campaign that we had. We players (and I'll be the first one to do it without hesitation) should step up and take all the blame, and I'm sure that a lot of @bushmasters players share this feeling.give tigers to TPP and FlamingVictini, they're both cute and competent users
Aside from last snake, flamingvictini did well in every team tours he has been in + he won ost and made 1 or 2 classic playoffs so he's good in both cg OU and most old gens. TPP was a fantastic presence in snake for us and he did well getting some nice wins + he was very good at scouting, and he's competent in cg OU.
Give flamingvictini a second chance
I do not wanna get into this ping pong game about TDs and Callous stuff, but there is clearly a huge issue when we're depriving the managerial acces to the current ost winner/an all time cg veteran because of some recent unfortunate teamtour (and the only one if I not mistaken).
Srry for any gramatical mistakes, just wanted to share my thoughts, and again, id like to call anyone on @Bushmasters who feels the same and wanna post his thoughts.
Pce
One of my main points isn't that CALLOUS or his players are inherently bad, rather they're very hard to draft for as a lot of the time you don't get what you pay for. Looking at these numbers also made it clear that there is also a correlation between team placement and CALLOUS' management, which speaks to his value.
These graphs show wins vs cost in CALLOUS' management over spl 9 and 10. I'd be interested to see these numbers for ADV specifically, or anything. Pick any 3. Also reverse the decision, any argument to keep CALLOUS out of official tournaments is nonsense. Anti-CALLOUS people are seriously danging on their last threads at this point, the man is so clearly big dicked and deserves a place in anything that wants to be taken seriously. I would be for going back on the decision to include CALLOUS as a manager if it meant Averardo and Atomicllamas get the axe. Also, boycotting this tournament down could be cool, please consider.
These graphs show wins vs cost in CALLOUS' management over spl 9 and 10. I'd be interested to see these numbers for ADV specifically, or anything. Pick any 3. Also reverse the decision, any argument to keep CALLOUS out of official tournaments is nonsense. Anti-CALLOUS people are seriously danging on their last threads at this point, the man is so clearly big dicked and deserves a place in anything that wants to be taken seriously. I would be for going back on the decision to include CALLOUS as a manager if it meant Averardo and Atomicllamas get the axe. Also, boycotting this tournament down could be cool, please consider.
prefacing: I don't think callous should have been given a managerial spot in the first place for reasons I will go into later; I also think the overturn itself as a concept is fine, if given sufficient reasoning. I do not, however, think the official reasoning that was given to justify the overturn was at all sufficient as has been said a thousand times over itt. it was flimsy, undocumented, and inexplicably rushed.
it was also, as far as I and anyone else has been able to gather, a decision made by Senior Staff, not TDs and made in such a way that completely overrides the TD team's agency. thus far, there has been no attempt (as BKC has talked about in the SmogTours Discord server) by SS to communicate to the TD team, to go along their complete silence towards the rest of the community. remember this thread? the community at large was justifiably upset with the various mishandlings of SS when it came to situations similar to this, and the SS response in this thread and other similar IS threads, was the claim that they will be making decisions in more transparent ways moving forwards. there are 2 main reasons I want to hone in on transparency here:
1) the official justification given for callous's removal being at best poorly thought out, and at worst intentionally misleading. I am not calling out Eo or the TD team here; due to the nature of the decision and more details that I will mention soon, I can only assume it had SS behind it.
2) the secrecy this decision was carried out with. said secrecy encompasses both how SS has seemingly left the TD team in the dark, and how there has yet to be as much as a single sentence by SS about this.
on why callous should not have been given the managerial spot in the first place and why it matters:
I am not willing to die on this hill or argue about his merits as a manager as it pertains purely to pokemon. the reason I am talking about this is to add to the overall point of this being a massive SS mishandling.
per Eo's post, callous was denied the spot due to
1) platforming Lavos specifically through interviewing him
2) calling bluri on his phone as a form of harassment
the second has been thoroughly debunked; bluri gave his number consensually, and even if you disagree with callous's...peculiar approach to it, it is absolutely not a disqualification in any way.
as for the first; as others have mentioned, the interview itself was fairly mild, especially by Lavos standards.
Callous's biggest offense, and IMO something that should be considered damning, was how he harbored Lavos and other permabanned users (that were permabanned for similar reasons..) in his invitational and server of, and stood by and defended their inclusion when confronted. In fact, the driving force behind Lavos's removal from PSI was ABR, not callous, who even disagreed with removing Lavos from it. I consider such attempts of reintegration and mild re-normalization of these users absolutely reprehensible when viewed alongside their offenses. these are not users with "simply differing opinions", they were active harassers and general incredibly toxic presences that were deemed bad enough to be permanently ousted from smogon. callous did not simply interact with them, he actively attempted to rehabilitate them into the larger pokemon community. this is not about him interacting with them through DMs. to me, giving callous a managerial spot so soon after these incidents is nonsensical.
all that said, I can't help but wonder; why were these things completely skipped over in the official reasoning we were given?
to add to how this non-inclusion makes absolutely negative sense, the TD team was aware of these things. explicitly so. callous being given a slot is imo a fault of their judgment, and is why I don't think such an overturn is inherently bad as a concept. however, I have a very strong feeling that if the official post articulated these points there would be much less outrage. enabling and defending a permabanned user talking about how he was canceled by the "tr***y brigade" IN HIS SERVER, and EXPLICITLY making it a point against him is significantly less contentious than "yea he interviewed him".
I apologize for taking me so long to arrive at the thesis of my post, but: why were these things mentioned nowhere to the larger community, and why were the TD team apparently not consulted on them? There's been so fucking many threads and back and forths about Senior Staff needing to be more transparent about their decisions and ESPECIALLY when it comes to the tours section, and when it comes to user toxicity, bigotry, and harassment. this is a massive clusterfuck that could have simply been avoided, or at the very least mitigated, if this decision wasn't
1) rushed immensely; seriously, conduct a longer 'investigation', give it half a day or one day or something
2) carried out with more transparency, especially with the TD team. what is the point of not just not consulting the designated section leaders, but actively bypassing them with such massively insufficient information? what I talked about earlier is information the TD team was aware of and took under consideration when making their decision. why were they not even so much as asked about their engagement with the matter??
I cannot for the life of me consider the logic behind making such an impactful and obviously contentious decision so quickly and so secretly. it is absolutely baffling, and the damage has already been done, no matter what happens next.
it was also, as far as I and anyone else has been able to gather, a decision made by Senior Staff, not TDs and made in such a way that completely overrides the TD team's agency. thus far, there has been no attempt (as BKC has talked about in the SmogTours Discord server) by SS to communicate to the TD team, to go along their complete silence towards the rest of the community. remember this thread? the community at large was justifiably upset with the various mishandlings of SS when it came to situations similar to this, and the SS response in this thread and other similar IS threads, was the claim that they will be making decisions in more transparent ways moving forwards. there are 2 main reasons I want to hone in on transparency here:
1) the official justification given for callous's removal being at best poorly thought out, and at worst intentionally misleading. I am not calling out Eo or the TD team here; due to the nature of the decision and more details that I will mention soon, I can only assume it had SS behind it.
2) the secrecy this decision was carried out with. said secrecy encompasses both how SS has seemingly left the TD team in the dark, and how there has yet to be as much as a single sentence by SS about this.
on why callous should not have been given the managerial spot in the first place and why it matters:
I am not willing to die on this hill or argue about his merits as a manager as it pertains purely to pokemon. the reason I am talking about this is to add to the overall point of this being a massive SS mishandling.
per Eo's post, callous was denied the spot due to
1) platforming Lavos specifically through interviewing him
2) calling bluri on his phone as a form of harassment
the second has been thoroughly debunked; bluri gave his number consensually, and even if you disagree with callous's...peculiar approach to it, it is absolutely not a disqualification in any way.
as for the first; as others have mentioned, the interview itself was fairly mild, especially by Lavos standards.
Callous's biggest offense, and IMO something that should be considered damning, was how he harbored Lavos and other permabanned users (that were permabanned for similar reasons..) in his invitational and server of, and stood by and defended their inclusion when confronted. In fact, the driving force behind Lavos's removal from PSI was ABR, not callous, who even disagreed with removing Lavos from it. I consider such attempts of reintegration and mild re-normalization of these users absolutely reprehensible when viewed alongside their offenses. these are not users with "simply differing opinions", they were active harassers and general incredibly toxic presences that were deemed bad enough to be permanently ousted from smogon. callous did not simply interact with them, he actively attempted to rehabilitate them into the larger pokemon community. this is not about him interacting with them through DMs. to me, giving callous a managerial spot so soon after these incidents is nonsensical.
all that said, I can't help but wonder; why were these things completely skipped over in the official reasoning we were given?
to add to how this non-inclusion makes absolutely negative sense, the TD team was aware of these things. explicitly so. callous being given a slot is imo a fault of their judgment, and is why I don't think such an overturn is inherently bad as a concept. however, I have a very strong feeling that if the official post articulated these points there would be much less outrage. enabling and defending a permabanned user talking about how he was canceled by the "tr***y brigade" IN HIS SERVER, and EXPLICITLY making it a point against him is significantly less contentious than "yea he interviewed him".
I apologize for taking me so long to arrive at the thesis of my post, but: why were these things mentioned nowhere to the larger community, and why were the TD team apparently not consulted on them? There's been so fucking many threads and back and forths about Senior Staff needing to be more transparent about their decisions and ESPECIALLY when it comes to the tours section, and when it comes to user toxicity, bigotry, and harassment. this is a massive clusterfuck that could have simply been avoided, or at the very least mitigated, if this decision wasn't
1) rushed immensely; seriously, conduct a longer 'investigation', give it half a day or one day or something
2) carried out with more transparency, especially with the TD team. what is the point of not just not consulting the designated section leaders, but actively bypassing them with such massively insufficient information? what I talked about earlier is information the TD team was aware of and took under consideration when making their decision. why were they not even so much as asked about their engagement with the matter??
I cannot for the life of me consider the logic behind making such an impactful and obviously contentious decision so quickly and so secretly. it is absolutely baffling, and the damage has already been done, no matter what happens next.
Callous was reasonably upset at the idea of hosting a money prize event and not getting the best possible competition for his tour.
He, however, reconciled with the idea and did what was right. If anything that is a testament to his character and it depicts a man willing to admit to his shortcomings and do the right thing. It is this same character trait we now await for the SS to demonstrate.
thats never stopped me before and its not going to start now bitch
This event probably has more eyes on it than any one single event in recent Smogon history, and it all seems to stem from a decision made without either a) all of the facts in on hand, b) without what is best for the community-at-large in mind, or c) both. SS, the TDs, nor the tour community need someone like me to white knight for any of them, especially not with the competency of posts such as Luigi, M Dragon, and Eternal Spirit.
I did still want to posit that, at this point, the only reasonable solution to me would be for some party or the other to publicly take responsibility for pushing this decision through faster than Amy Coney Barrett’s Supreme Court confirmation, apologize for not seeing the solution through the eyes of the community for which it was meant to benefit, and determine what next step makes the most people happy. That has always been the first priority of Smogon’s leadership teams, and maybe that got lost for a second when making this decision.
I did still want to posit that, at this point, the only reasonable solution to me would be for some party or the other to publicly take responsibility for pushing this decision through faster than Amy Coney Barrett’s Supreme Court confirmation, apologize for not seeing the solution through the eyes of the community for which it was meant to benefit, and determine what next step makes the most people happy. That has always been the first priority of Smogon’s leadership teams, and maybe that got lost for a second when making this decision.
Hi, if you're interested in being a Cryo this year, you can DM me on discord - Triangles#9695
Give me a couple of replays of you playing well against strong opponents, and tell me in a few sentences what you love about the tier you'd like me to consider you for. I obviously can't promise SPL places but what I can promise is that I'll genuinely look over what you send me.
Give me a couple of replays of you playing well against strong opponents, and tell me in a few sentences what you love about the tier you'd like me to consider you for. I obviously can't promise SPL places but what I can promise is that I'll genuinely look over what you send me.
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Ace-11
Banned deucer.
Instead of contemplating whether Callous deserved to be kicked from his managerial position or not, how about you start questioning yourself why you were kicked from the Greek WCoP team? Those who live in a glass house should not throw stones.
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