Announcement np: SS OU Suspect Process, Round 10 - Royals

[viet noa]

since i’m absolute garbo at pokémon, i’ll probably not meet the reqs. however, i just want to share my thoughts:

i think zama-c provides lots of value to the tier, while not being completely broken. it helps teams check some of the most annoying aspects of ou right now (in my opinion) ~ defensive walls spamming knock off, rillaboom revenge killing everything with one button, etc. zama-c sorta plays the role as a tank: best case scenario, it can keep chipping away at the opponent with big hits until it faints knowing that it wore down the opponent’s team quite a bit. this enables sweepers to then take care of business, or defensive pokémon to have a much easier time walling the opponent’s team to death.

i feel like this type of role isn’t really found often at all in ou, besides maybe defensive garchomp and maybe melmetal. i believe that it adds a new dimension to both offensive and defensive teams, as you now have a pokémon that can dish out some damage, but also have the longevity to absorb many hits.

with that being said though, the checks and counters to zama-c aren’t difficult to come by. yes, zama-c can overcome these checks, but unlike a pokémon like spectrier, the sets required to overcome these checks just lead to exploitable weaknesses. sure, you can use ice fang against lando and garchomp. will you still be able to fit the coverage against defensive pokémon like pex and buzzwole, and against offensive threats like volcarona and victini? probably not.

sure, it can’t really be ohko’d. however, it’s incredibly easy to wear this pokémon down. people keep mentioning that a bunch of pokémon need to run rocky helmet, but that’s not always the case. pretty much any form of chip damage will get on its nerves. this can come in the form of hazards, regular stray hits, or something else. plus, this thing absolutely hates getting burned or paralyzed.

zama-c would definitely become a very good pokémon in the meta. however, it’s not overpowered. it just takes advantage of an archetype that isn’t often seen in ou.

edit: i feel like some of the strong comments towards this pokémon are mainly due to the very nature of a suspect test. in this environment, we’re all hyperfixated on this one pokémon. the meta doesn’t revolve around zama-c, it’s just the pokémon on everyone’s minds becuase...y’know...it’s a suspect test. imagine if we had a dragapult suspect test, and all our attention is on dragapult. we would certainly see some similarly strong scrutiny for that pokémon.

 

[AquaVanilla]

Zama c is a really helpful addition to the tier mainly because of how much it checks and can provide as a knock off absorber idt its broken bc of how much is struggles with defensive mons

 

[robo603]

do you need to use zama to become a req?

 

[KirbyDude25]

do you need to use zama to become a req?

No, you can get reqs using any team you want. Zamazenta looks to be pretty strong, so using it shouldn't hurt, but it's not required.

 

[robo603]

No, you can get reqs using any team you want. Zamazenta looks to be pretty strong, so using it shouldn't hurt, but it's not required.

ohh okay i got you thank you

 

[Xufactor]

Since people keep bringing up checks and counters, I ask, is looking at a Pokémon’s checks and counters always a good way to determine a Pokémon’s viability? I think we should figure out if a Pokémon is too good at doing what it does well. Dugtrio was banned and Deoxys-S was banned before even though they both had plenty of checks and counters. But it’s obvious what these Pokémon do. Dugtrio traps and Deoxys-S sets up hazards and screens. So it’s relatively easy to see that they’re broken even though they have checks and counters. It’s not so obvious what Zamazenta does well. But we should figure out what it does well instead of giving it the “is it a good breaker” treatment. If it somehow wasn’t obvious what Deoxys-S did well, and you just looked at its checks and counters, there’s no way it would get banned. Let’s look at what Zamazenta does well and see if it should get banned because of that. An example: it heavily pressures you to switch into a defensive recover mon, making a double into a wallbreaker very good.

 

[CreamyKittyy]

Since people keep bringing up checks and counters, I ask, is looking at a Pokémon’s checks and counters always a good way to determine a Pokémon’s viability? I think we should figure out if a Pokémon is too good at doing what it does well. Dugtrio was banned and Deoxys-S was banned before even though they both had plenty of checks and counters. But it’s obvious what these Pokémon do. Dugtrio traps and Deoxys-S sets up hazards and screens. So it’s relatively easy to see that they’re broken even though they have checks and counters. It’s not so obvious what Zamazenta does well. But we should figure out what it does well instead of giving it the “is it a good breaker” treatment. If it somehow wasn’t obvious what Dugtrio did well, and you just looked at its checks and counters, there’s no way it would get banned. Let’s look at what Zamazenta does well and see if it should get banned because of that. An example: it heavily pressures you to switch into a defensive recover mon, making a double into a wallbreaker very good.

What zamazenta does is click attacks and occasionally howl to kill everything and sweep. It forces people to run certain mons such as volcarona or pex to have any chance of winning and even then the "counters" can be beaten with the right set, its only issues are being vulnerable to chip damage and super effective attacks due to lack of reliable recovery, which you can easily avoid if you are smart, or you can just give it screens or wish support and make it unkillable. It also completely counters offense and forces people to run more defensive teams to beat it consistently, which is quite overcentralizing and a good reason for a ban.

 

[actuallybad]

Here's another thing I'm curious about: People keep claiming that Zamazenta isn't a problem for offensive builds, or at least not as much of a problem as some would claim, by citing supposedly plentiful offensive checks/revenge killers. Where? Where are these plentiful offensive checks, besides Volcarona (either a monster or a complete waste of time, often the latter, especially against hyper offense teams themselves), and, I don't know, Victini and Aegislash? which aren't good fits on most offenses, except for scarf Victini, but that's not a long term answer. Beyond that, there's... scarf Blacephalon and Heatran, and... a bunch of other situational scarfers that aren't seen normally for a reason. Where are these offensive checks? Volcarona, Victini, and Aegislash only work in the first place because they're defensive answers that happen to have some offensive pressure. Literally nothing faster than Zamazenta can take it out in one hit from full, aside from those aforementioned scarfers, which are scarfers and are inherently abusable, especially by the sturdy defensive backbones Zamazenta now finds itself paired with more frequently by the hour.
This is an honest query. Where are these offensive checks? Who "easily" revenge kills it, that is, outspeeds and eliminates it consistently? In other words, what offensive counterplay does not rely on being able to take a hit first?

 

[Totomon]

Who "easily" revenge kills it, that is, outspeeds and eliminates it consistently? In other words, what offensive counterplay does not rely on being able to take a hit first?

Honestly I dont want to be that guy but here it goes, saying that there isnt a mon that can easily outspeed and Ohko zamazenta is kind of unfair as that isnt really the way you deal with fast mons, the same argument you made can be applied to something like zeraora saying something like "what other mons apart from banded rillaboom and scarfchomp can eliminate it consistently without relying on being able to take a hit first, other than random scarfers"
And while yes zamazenta has a good MU against HO its not like they only rely on bulkarona or victini as many other mons in offensive teams can trade with zama or just straight up win the 1v1, here are some examples:
(all of the cases are assuming you got a free switch)

Urshifu

252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 216-256 (63.3 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(16.6 - 19.6% recoil damage)
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 284-336 (87.3 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

16.6 + 87.3 = 103.9

Zeraora

Zeraora is faster and sets up a BU (If they dont inmediately CC you have no reason to not keep bulking up)
252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Close Combat vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Zeraora: 183-216 (57.7 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Zama lost its defense boost by CC'ing and...
+1 252 Atk Zeraora Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 160-190 (49.2 - 58.4%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO (25.2 - 29.9% recovered)
Worst case scenario is that they do 68.1% and you only recover 25.2 + 1 round of lefties
100 - 68.1 + 25.2 + 6 = 63.1 and from this range...
252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Close Combat vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Zeraora: 183-216 (57.7 - 68.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
That's in zera's favor

AND REMEMBER THIS IS THE ABSOLUTELY WORST CASE SCENARIO, IF YOU ARE SITRUS BERRY THEY ARE DEAD, IF THEY ARE JOLLY THEY ARE DEAD, IF YOU ARE ADAMANT THEY ARE DEAD, IF YOU HAVE SCREENS THEY ARE DEAD, IF THE DAMAGE ROLL JUST TIPS 5% ON YOUR FAVOR THEY ARE DEAD.

Hawlucha

A common situation is zamazenta coming in on rillaboom, and if boom decides to u-turn...
252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Wild Charge vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 182-216 (61.2 - 72.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Lucha just SD's and tanks the wild charge, then...
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Close Combat vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 330-390 (101.5 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Garchomp

Surprisingly scale shot garchomp can trade with non ice-fang zamazenta
252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Behemoth Bash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 186-220 (52.1 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Bash is the optimal move as CC lowers defense)
You tank the hit and use SCALE SHOT followed up by an EQ
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Scale Shot (2 hits) vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 26-32 (8 - 9.8%)
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 205-244 (63 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

12.5 + 8 + 63 + 12.5 = 96
Zama is basically dead, 4% more in your favor and you managed to trade. A high roll + more scale shot hits/they messing up and CC'ing and garchomp survives.

And those 4 are some of the most common HO mons that can 1v1 zama without any other support (+ the ones that were already listed), if we include screens support other guys like kommo-o, azumarill and celesteela join the gang, all of this adds to the fact that zamazenta can't just carelessly hard switch into offensive mons or it will lose the capability to beat other mons like tyranitar or even weavile.
And I am leaning towards ban! But I find arguments like these kind of disingenous and not really convincing.
(Sorry if this felt like a personal attack, it wasnt my intention)

 

[Nonashinygyrados]

My experience of using zamcenta in 42 matches. I use him on the rain team asuma created and swamp tornadus t for zamcenta C. He only swept in 2 matches. Clearly he is beatable someone mention it take 1.5 mons to chip away from him and found that true when playing against him. My team wasn't design to get the most out of zamcenta however having him there added pressure to my opponent team. His check of chomp, lando, volc , corv, pex , zap , physical growth, and bro could be defeated by my rain team with a few correct predictions . While on the other hand stuff my team struggle with such as ferro ,rillaboom, +2 bisharp and knock off use zam to pivot on with ease. That what I see him as an excellent pivot mon with the potential to sweep . I believe this is what makes him so dangerous is the fact that you can just have him in the back with the potential to clean up. In 1 of 2 sweep he did have . The opposing team has iron defense corv, bro and hippo whirlwind and I was able chip his team away and play zam to be the last mon and he 6-0 the team. In a terrible match up he did that and that what makes him scary.

 

[ZannaBianca99]

I'm not going to get the reqs for the vote, but I feel that it's important to point out that Zama isn't a free pivot on Bisharp or Weavile if they are running Low kick, which is a common move on both on CB sets.

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 180-212 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Low Kick (120 BP) vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 204-240 (62.7 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The Weavile calc is particularly important since Adamant Zama gets outsped and 2HKOed on the switch. The Zama player needs prior scouting, which could be enough for both Weavile and Bish to put in some work instead of being completely dead weight.

 

[JinLong88]

ppl in OU are having a debate whether Bash is bad on Zama, and you should alawys use other moves like Ice Fang instead.

thoughts?

 

[Bruh Moment (Fruedasi)]

ppl in OU are having a debate whether Bash is bad on Zama, and you should alawys use other moves like Ice Fang instead.

thoughts?

It's true on my opinion. Bash is a waste of moveslot in most situations and make your quantity of checks even worse, Bash is only usable on RestHowl on my opinion. Howl Cleaner should use CC+BoltBeam to clean lategame way more effectively. Other moves like Crunch or Play Rough have its uses but they also make more exploitable weakness just like Bash

 

[kstiemsma]

ppl in OU are having a debate whether Bash is bad on Zama, and you should alawys use other moves like Ice Fang instead.

thoughts?

just ctrl-c ing my post from before, just one thing i'd like to add is that the vast majority of clefs are running spdef these days so it's even less of an issue

- Behemoth Bash is a waste of a moveslot from all the games I've played with it. Outside of STAB for neutral hits, there's almost nothing besides Clef that makes this worth running on Howl+3attacks over BoltBeam+CC. Making it so you don't get walled by is great and giving comparable damage on without the defense drop and conserving PP is nice. Volc walls you either way and Lele has a 95.7% chance to get 2HKO'd by Wild Charge anyways. I do agree though that offensive Zam is underwhelming and that's without other OU viable mons having a chance to adapt to the metagame and rise up such as and .

 

[Ananeemoos Jak]

So, I have to ask, what are the most viable sets? There seems to be a lot of debate, as some say that howl+three attacks is good, non howl is an option, a defensive resttalk set, or possibly a tank.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Zama in my opinion is pretty bad, it gets chipped by everything, 3% rocks matter a lot in pokemon and can eventually add up. So even chip such as u-turn permenately staying is pretty big. It also is walled eaisly by some of the most common defensive pokemon that are also used to handle other threats, defensive pokemon such as toxapex, phys def garchomp, helmet lando-t, helmet bro, phys def tang, hippowdown, skarmory, zapdos, and aegislash all can do well to either cripple it with damage or with status or to stop it dead in its track with any progress. It just struggles to force any progress against defensive cores/pokemon, and has a 4MSS with ice fang, bash, cc, howl, wild charge. If it drops howl, it cannot break, if drops ice fang it is walled by lando-t, garchomp, def zapdos, while if it drops wild charge it is sat on by pex, slowtwins, volcarona. If it drops cc it cannot force any progress on pokemon such as heatran, ferrothorn, and loses its strongest neutral option, And dropping bash means clef, and the tapus. I just do not think it fairs very well against the metagame. It has defenses to back it up but it dosen't matter than its defences are higher than lando-t since it cannot recover and just gets worn down. It needs heavy support to function via future sight, wish clef/wish port clef, teamates such as magnezone, rillaboom for grassy terrain. To me it looks like a fine addition to OU

 

[DanteIXLegion]

So after lurking in the thread for a while I had a thought about how to use zamazenta crowned. To use it to pivot and scout the other person's zama answer with protect, then answer accordingly, the team I came up with was honestly pretty awful but I'm curious if anyone has had any more success with the idea of zama baiting answers for a teammate to take advantage of. I'm gonna try to get reqs but as it stands I have no idea whether or not I will vote ban because zama has answers but those answers in part only beat zama and hopefully after getting reqs I will have decided how to vote.

 

[WhiteQueen]

Zamawhatever is walled hard by Quagsire, an UU Pokemon. Therefore it’s not broken.

 

[Bruh Moment (Fruedasi)]

So, I have to ask, what are the most viable sets? There seems to be a lot of debate, as some say that howl+three attacks is good, non howl is an option, a defensive resttalk set, or possibly a tank.

I honestly think that Howl Cleaner CC+BoltBeam is the best option. Defensive sets aren't that good. There's also RestHowl who is a pretty nasty wincon for stall teams alongside the support of something like Aromatherapy Blissey. There's the standard howl double stab+wild charge but I think that Howl CC+BoltBeam outclasses it. I'm no pro player, so you could ask AM, Finchinator or others pro players about this. Just saying my opinion. For me the best set is Howl Cleaner, no matter if its the variation of CC+BoltBeam or the standard. Don't use this set as a breaker. Try to prepare the scenario for the lategame so Zama only needs 1 boost to clean up the weakened team. Zama is a terrible breaker but a strong lategame cleaner that abuses its bulk to get setup opportunities on common offensive mons, if you are trying to use it as breaker then use it with Future Sight because without it, it's gonna be a pitful and outclassed breaker. And it's not a sweeper because it can still be answered with 1+ by most of its checks. So the best way to use it is preparing the scenario for lategame and then find out the best opportunity by exploiting a offensive mon that gets checked by it. Forcing a switch and then get the howl boost(even that they don't switch its setup fooder anyways) and then try to clean up after getting the Howl Boost.
Hope this help!

 

[|Powerman|]

Zamawhatever is walled hard by Quagsire, an UU Pokemon. Therefore it’s not broken.

This is a bad statement. Zacian-C was also walled by quagsire yet its a anything goes Pokémon, in legion with mega raquaza.

 

[Fusion Flare]

What’s up everyone, it’s me, Fusion Flare, and I just got reqs, so I ought to share my thoughts on Zamazenta-C, alongside the team i used to get reqs.

Thoughts on Zama-C
During my tenure with the dog, i used a single Hyper Offensive team my entire run, and it never really struggled against Zamazenta-C, even with pokemon that it can pick off, such as Azumarill. I’d honestly say that Zama-C is nothing that HO can’t adapt to. In fact, i’ve never really struggled with it at all. And HO aside, it doesnt seem like a pokemon that you have to realistically go out of your way to hold it off, including potential teammates in either FuturePort or WishPort. It wasn’t absolutely overbearing on the tier, so I’ll probably vote unban. So, i’ve elected to now show you my team that i utilized to get reqs! But first...

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Tangrowth @ Choice Specs
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 204 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast

Don’t you just hate it when those grass neutral grounds take very little from your giga drains? Don’t you just wanna shred them to pieces? Well, say no more! With this revolutionary set that buddy Chazm recommended, those defensive landorus-t and SD garchomps stand no chance in the face if a Choice Specs 130 base power harbringer of destruction!!! (provided you aren’t as nearly as unlucky as I am, anyway.) the other moves are self explanatory, focus blast for steels and sludge bomb to fully check Rillaboom. The EVs let you stomach two Zamazenta-Crowned’s Close Combats at full HP, while still retaining defensive utility against the Grass, Steel, and Fighting types that roam the tier. Anyway, I’d recommend you’d give it a shot! (and hey, maybe if you’re fortunate, you might not be as unlucky as I was using this thing.) anyway, here’s the team!

https://pokepast.es/ffb4cc7478de62a1
notes: you could probably go for anti ground coverage in glowking over sludge bomb, and ice fang on zama-c to stave off dnite. Ok, back to the reqs!

Anyway, back to the team, this hyper offensive screens team is one that was rather successful on ladder due to the general well-roundedness of the team, and the fact that this centers around one unique tech that I stumbled onto whilst in a battle: Chople Berry Kartana.

Kartana @ Chople Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Knock Off

Kartana is one of the scariest threats to offense, but the advent of Zama-C has left something to be desired, since it outsped, lived scarfed sacred sword, and ripped it to shreds with Close Combat. Chople Berry, though, turns the tables on such a set, and once you have an SD up, the opponent will look on in utter terror, and they’ll rue the day they foolishly clicked CC as their mutt becomes machete at the hands of a +2 Sacred Sword, cutting through Dauntless Shield with ease.
And when I ran into this set, how could I not build a team around it and ravage the ladder? And that is what i did!!
Click the Image for the Pokepaste!!!
Teambuilding Process
I will be honest, the core 4 of MixChomp, Volcarona, Azumarill, and Lando-T is by no means a unique one, as Niko pointed out, but it is probably one of the better Hyper Offensive cores in the tier due to its ability to break through most offensive teams.

I knew Kartana was going to struggle against the likes of physically bulky pokemon such as Tangrowth and Buzzwole, so I paired it with Mixed SR Garchomp to torch any opponent who stood in my warrior’s way. This was a very fashionable core, but then i thought, hey, what if i give them even MORE oppurtunities to wreak havoc upon the metagame?! And thus, I began to build a screens team, with Tapu Koko as my setter of choice. It carried volt switch, primarily so i could actually mess with Tornadus-Therian, Corviknight, and Zapdos after I had taunted it. I then accompanied our three warriors with 2 standard members of Screens Offense in Volcarona and Azumarill. Volcarona was as dangerous of a sweeper as ever, and could stand in the way of Zamazenta-Crowned if Kartana hadn’t prepared to finish it. Azumarill fully took advantage of Kartana luring Zamazenta-Crowned, one of its best offensive checks, and can scare off Dragapults in a pinch. Its priority can also be handy when dealing with menaces like opposing Volcarona if Garchomp cannot take a hit from it. The team was going well, but then i realized I needed a Ground immunity AND something that didnt drop to opposing Tapu Koko. Enter Double Dance Landorus-T! A fearsome sweeper that can take advantage of Chomp luring traditional answers, like Tangrowth, Buzzwole, etc. that also happened to soften up blows with its Intimidate, thus completing the team.
Thoughts on other posts
Now im gonna give my thoughts on people’s other thoughts that I may or may not disagree with.
“You don‘t need Behemoth Bash, just use BoltBeam + CC”
Yeah, not really. I don’t think you even need Ice Fang. It only reaches 130 base power if you double the base power of 65 on super effective targets, including Hippowdon and Rillaboom, whereas Bash reaches 150 factoring in the 1.5 boost from STAB. The only reason I would see Ice Fang as a decent option is for staving off Dragonites, but even that option is a little on the fringe side.

“Bulky Volcarona is not a good set”
Wrong. Bolcarona is an jncredible set, and maybe even its best. It isn’t too difficult to catch Heatran with a Knock or two alongside hazards to wear it down tremendously quickly, and being able to set up against nearly every special threats, barring ones that have super effective moves, or ones that bypass the Spdef boosts, such as Lele or a 20% spdef drop happy Dragapult. Saying it’s not good is incredibly misleading and outright incorrect.

“Zamawhatever is walled by Quagsire, a UU pokemon, and is therefore trash”
who the FUCK is quagsire

Ok, i think that should be all my thoughts.

 

[Bruh Moment (Fruedasi)]

What’s up everyone, it’s me, Fusion Flare, and I just got reqs, so I ought to share my thoughts on Zamazenta-C, alongside the team i used to get reqs.
View attachment 332220
Thoughts on Zama-C
During my tenure with the dog, i used a single Hyper Offensive team my entire run, and it never really struggled against Zamazenta-C, even with pokemon that it can pick off, such as Azumarill. I’d honestly say that Zama-C is nothing that HO can’t adapt to. In fact, i’ve never really struggled with it at all. And HO aside, it doesnt seem like a pokemon that you have to realistically go out of your way to hold it off, including potential teammates in either FuturePort or WishPort. It wasn’t absolutely overbearing on the tier, so I’ll probably vote unban. So, i’ve elected to now show you my team that i utilized to get reqs! But first...
During my tenure with the dog, i used a single Hyper Offensive team my entire run, and it never really struggled against Zamazenta-C, even with pokemon that it can pick off, such as Azumarill. I’d honestly say that Zama-C is nothing that HO can’t adapt to. In fact, i’ve never really struggled with it at all. And HO aside, it doesnt seem like a pokemon that you have to realistically go out of your way to hold it off, including potential teammates in either FuturePort or WishPort. It wasn’t absolutely overbearing on the tier, so I’ll probably vote unban. So, i’ve elected to now show you my team that i utilized to get reqs! But first...

Skip Ad

Tangrowth @ Choice Specs
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 204 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast

Don’t you just hate it when those grass neutral grounds take very little from your giga drains? Don’t you just wanna shred them to pieces? Well, say no more! With this revolutionary set that buddy Chazm recommended, those defensive landorus-t and SD garchomps stand no chance in the face if a Choice Specs 130 base power harbringer of destruction!!! (provided you aren’t as nearly as unlucky as I am, anyway.) the other moves are self explanatory, focus blast for steels and sludge bomb to fully check Rillaboom. The EVs let you stomach two Zamazenta-Crowned’s Close Combats at full HP, while still retaining defensive utility against the Grass, Steel, and Fighting types that roam the tier. Anyway, I’d recommend you’d give it a shot! (and hey, maybe if you’re fortunate, you might not be as unlucky as I was using this thing.) anyway, here’s the team!

https://pokepast.es/ffb4cc7478de62a1
notes: you could probably go for anti ground coverage in glowking over sludge bomb, and ice fang on zama-c to stave off dnite. Ok, back to the reqs!

Anyway, back to the team, this hyper offensive screens team is one that was rather successful on ladder due to the general well-roundedness of the team, and the fact that this centers around one unique tech that I stumbled onto whilst in a battle: Chople Berry Kartana.

Kartana @ Chople Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Knock Off

Kartana is one of the scariest threats to offense, but the advent of Zama-C has left something to be desired, since it outsped, lived scarfed sacred sword, and ripped it to shreds with Close Combat. Chople Berry, though, turns the tables on such a set, and once you have an SD up, the opponent will look on in utter terror, and they’ll rue the day they foolishly clicked CC as their mutt becomes machete at the hands of a +2 Sacred Sword, cutting through Dauntless Shield with ease.
And when I ran into this set, how could I not build a team around it and ravage the ladder? And that is what i did!!View attachment 332262
Click the Image for the Pokepaste!!!
Teambuilding Process
I knew Kartana was going to struggle against the likes of physically bulky pokemon such as Tangrowth and Buzzwole, so I paired it with Mixed SR Garchomp to torch any opponent who stood in my warrior’s way. This was a very fashionable core, but then i thought, hey, what if i give them even MORE oppurtunities to wreak havoc upon the metagame?! And thus, I began to build a screens team, with Tapu Koko as my setter of choice. It carried volt switch, primarily so i could actually mess with Tornadus-Therian, Corviknight, and Zapdos after I had taunted it. I then accompanied our three warriors with 2 standard members of Screens Offense in Volcarona and Azumarill. Volcarona was as dangerous of a sweeper as ever, and could stand in the way of Zamazenta-Crowned if Kartana hadn’t prepared to finish it. Azumarill fully took advantage of Kartana luring Zamazenta-Crowned, one of its best offensive checks, and can scare off Dragapults in a pinch. Its priority can also be handy when dealing with menaces like opposing Volcarona if Garchomp cannot take a hit from it. The team was going well, but then i realized I needed a Ground immunity AND something that didnt drop to opposing Tapu Koko. Enter Double Dance Landorus-T! A fearsome sweeper that can take advantage of Chomp luring traditional answers, like Tangrowth, Buzzwole, etc. that also happened to soften up blows with its Intimidate, thus completing the team.
Thoughts on other posts
Now im gonna give my thoughts on people’s other thoughts that I may or may not disagree with.
“You don‘t need Behemoth Bash, just use BoltBeam + CC”
Yeah, not really. I don’t think you even need Ice Fang. It only reaches 130 base power if you double the base power of 65 on super effective targets, including Hippowdon and Rillaboom, whereas Bash reaches 150 factoring in the 1.5 boost from STAB. The only reason I would see Ice Fang as a decent option is for staving off Dragonites, but even that option is a little on the fringe side.

“Bulky Volcarona is not a good set”
Wrong. Bolcarona is an jncredible set, and maybe even its best. It isn’t too difficult to catch Heatran with a Knock or two alongside hazards to wear it down tremendously quickly, and being able to set up against nearly every special threats, barring ones that have super effective moves, or ones that bypass the Spdef boosts, such as Lele or a 20% spdef drop happy Dragapult. Saying it’s not good is incredibly misleading and outright incorrect.

“Zamawhatever is walled by Quagsire, a UU pokemon, and is therefore trash”
who the FUCK is quagsire

Ok, i think that should be all my thoughts.

Great post! But about the Bash thing its generally because of Zapdos, Lando-T and Garchomp that people are starting to use Ice Fang over bash. Just a correction because its not necessarily used because of Hippo and Rilla. Its most targets that with Bash it wouldn't guareentee a win(especially Zapdos) so this is just to say why people like me and others don't think that Bash is that good, so anyways this is a great post thank you for dropping your thoughts on Zama. This team is pretty nice and well thought, have a great day.

 

[PlusC]

Zamazenta-C giving you trouble? Turn it into an opportunity with this Hawlucha set!


Hawlucha @ Weakness Policy
Adamant Nature
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Atk / 24 Def
- Endure
- Acrobatics
- Drain Punch/ Close Combat
- Roost/ Poison Jab/ Encore

This spread always survives Wild Charge after rocks from Adamant ZamC.

Either go DP and Roost for Bulk but you lose to Koko (deal 68% min with CC) or CC (or HJK if you're bonkers) and Poison Jab.

Switch into Wild Charge, activating Weakness Policy and now you both outspeed and can OHKO with CC.

If it Howls on the switch click Endure to survive activating WP and Unburden.

Alternatively click Roost to rack up more Recoil, then Drain Punch to end healthy.

Encore is also an option if you're worried about bulkier variants setting up on you.

 

[Gomi]

Great post! But about the Bash thing its generally because of Zapdos, Lando-T and Garchomp that people are starting to use Ice Fang over bash. Just a correction because its not necessarily used because of Hippo and Rilla. Its most targets that with Bash it wouldn't guareentee a win(especially Zapdos) so this is just to say why people like me and others don't think that Bash is that good, so anyways this is a great post thank you for dropping your thoughts on Zama. This team is pretty nice and well thought, have a great day.

Ice fang is not for primarily Lando and chomp lol, Lando is 2hko'd by bash after relatively minor chip and can be ganged up on by teammates fairly easily (garchomp/other lando being an easy example), and garchomp is just not a close combat switchin, especially given +1 CC ohkos garchomp

calcs

+1 252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 336-396 (94.1 - 110.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Behemoth Bash vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Landorus-Therian: 159-187 (41.6 - 48.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(assuming howl on the switch which is an incredibly safe play most of the time and the correct situation to assume zama is facing these mons in)

Ice fang is for Zapdos Dnite and practically nothing else. Bash is the better option in the majority of cases, rking lele and taking out clef is more generally applicable than the things listed b4.
e: forgot tankchomp but that set honestly blows lol, only rlly for zama zera

 

[Niko]

What’s up everyone, it’s me, Fusion Flare, and I just got reqs, so I ought to share my thoughts on Zamazenta-C, alongside the team i used to get reqs.
View attachment 332220
Thoughts on Zama-C
During my tenure with the dog, i used a single Hyper Offensive team my entire run, and it never really struggled against Zamazenta-C, even with pokemon that it can pick off, such as Azumarill. I’d honestly say that Zama-C is nothing that HO can’t adapt to. In fact, i’ve never really struggled with it at all. And HO aside, it doesnt seem like a pokemon that you have to realistically go out of your way to hold it off, including potential teammates in either FuturePort or WishPort. It wasn’t absolutely overbearing on the tier, so I’ll probably vote unban. So, i’ve elected to now show you my team that i utilized to get reqs! But first...

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Tangrowth @ Choice Specs
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 204 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast

Don’t you just hate it when those grass neutral grounds take very little from your giga drains? Don’t you just wanna shred them to pieces? Well, say no more! With this revolutionary set that buddy Chazm recommended, those defensive landorus-t and SD garchomps stand no chance in the face if a Choice Specs 130 base power harbringer of destruction!!! (provided you aren’t as nearly as unlucky as I am, anyway.) the other moves are self explanatory, focus blast for steels and sludge bomb to fully check Rillaboom. The EVs let you stomach two Zamazenta-Crowned’s Close Combats at full HP, while still retaining defensive utility against the Grass, Steel, and Fighting types that roam the tier. Anyway, I’d recommend you’d give it a shot! (and hey, maybe if you’re fortunate, you might not be as unlucky as I was using this thing.) anyway, here’s the team!

https://pokepast.es/ffb4cc7478de62a1
notes: you could probably go for anti ground coverage in glowking over sludge bomb, and ice fang on zama-c to stave off dnite. Ok, back to the reqs!

Anyway, back to the team, this hyper offensive screens team is one that was rather successful on ladder due to the general well-roundedness of the team, and the fact that this centers around one unique tech that I stumbled onto whilst in a battle: Chople Berry Kartana.

Kartana @ Chople Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Knock Off

Kartana is one of the scariest threats to offense, but the advent of Zama-C has left something to be desired, since it outsped, lived scarfed sacred sword, and ripped it to shreds with Close Combat. Chople Berry, though, turns the tables on such a set, and once you have an SD up, the opponent will look on in utter terror, and they’ll rue the day they foolishly clicked CC as their mutt becomes machete at the hands of a +2 Sacred Sword, cutting through Dauntless Shield with ease.
And when I ran into this set, how could I not build a team around it and ravage the ladder? And that is what i did!!View attachment 332262
Click the Image for the Pokepaste!!!
Teambuilding Process
I knew Kartana was going to struggle against the likes of physically bulky pokemon such as Tangrowth and Buzzwole, so I paired it with Mixed SR Garchomp to torch any opponent who stood in my warrior’s way. This was a very fashionable core, but then i thought, hey, what if i give them even MORE oppurtunities to wreak havoc upon the metagame?! And thus, I began to build a screens team, with Tapu Koko as my setter of choice. It carried volt switch, primarily so i could actually mess with Tornadus-Therian, Corviknight, and Zapdos after I had taunted it. I then accompanied our three warriors with 2 standard members of Screens Offense in Volcarona and Azumarill. Volcarona was as dangerous of a sweeper as ever, and could stand in the way of Zamazenta-Crowned if Kartana hadn’t prepared to finish it. Azumarill fully took advantage of Kartana luring Zamazenta-Crowned, one of its best offensive checks, and can scare off Dragapults in a pinch. Its priority can also be handy when dealing with menaces like opposing Volcarona if Garchomp cannot take a hit from it. The team was going well, but then i realized I needed a Ground immunity AND something that didnt drop to opposing Tapu Koko. Enter Double Dance Landorus-T! A fearsome sweeper that can take advantage of Chomp luring traditional answers, like Tangrowth, Buzzwole, etc. that also happened to soften up blows with its Intimidate, thus completing the team.

are you sure that there was an actual teambuilding process? i saw you laddering with my team after i posted it