Was banning specific screens *setters* an option?
Or are screens just good regardless of who sets them?
Or are screens just good regardless of who sets them?
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Unfortunately this option would not solve the problem. even if you ban both Ninetales-alola and Grimmsnarl, other screens setters like azelf, klefki, xatu, and jirachi could likely just take their place and still accomplish the role to a solid degree. Personally a light clay ban is the way to go, there are too many setters and abusers to tackle that it would overall be best to ban light clay, nerfing the playstyle considerably but still keeping it viable
Is the UU Council allowed to ban Light Clay? Or Light Screen and Reflect? Or is this a complex ban that falls under the purview of Policy Review?
I'm sure they COULD, but last I heard there was probably going to be a Policy Review topic on it since it was a more complicated issue. Not sure on the timeline of that though.
They forgot to put it on the survey as an option, but it wouldn't be a popular one anyways. It is possible though to do this if they think that it is the correct route to take.
Purely to help the council out, I hope you guys didn't forget about this post where the now Policy head said councils are not allowed to do complex bans (which are non Pokemon bans) last year in the context of Drought discussions(things may have changed since then):
Yes, but not without a policy discussion of some sort. We'd need to talk to RU, NU and PU about it first and then take it to PR to ensure we discuss other options and make sure banning Light Clay (or whatever else) is the right course of action. We're talking about what to do about it a lot rn and it's looking like a thread will be made on Light Clay in lower tiers as a whole but it remains to be seen.
Hi, I’m Night. And I’d like to make the statement of fuck screens. The amount of times I’ve lost because of the turns it takes to deal with screens is more than a few, which honestly shouldn’t be happening. Being able to put up dual screens, set up, and sweep does not feel good to play or play against at all. Especially when there’s a certain team floating around that packs three sweepers, most of which basically just get screens up and say “ok I’m blowing through your team now!”
Seriously, this isn’t fun to play against.
edit: I don’t know why everyone is reacting but i would like to take this chance to say ban washtom so I can do my gyarados sweeps easier
Seriously, this isn’t fun to play against.
edit: I don’t know why everyone is reacting but i would like to take this chance to say ban washtom so I can do my gyarados sweeps easier
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I am sorry that I voted do not ban on Screens/Light Clay in the latest survey, given my initial desire to preserve the entire playstyle. What needs to be said has already been said by the tier leaders in the PR thread: that there are way too many efficient setters and abusers to account for, and as such banning one mon at a time will only be a temporary solution. Rather than repeating all the arguments here, perhaps I could list out some of the new toys that Game Freak has introduced this generation that have made Screens so potent (specifically in UU).
Screens as a playstyle may be brainless, but terrifying to play against when actually used by someone with a brain. Should there be a suspect on Light Clay, I will definitely try to get reqs and will not hesitate to ban it from the tier.
- Grimmsnarl having Prankster + Taunt + good typing.
- Gyarados learning Power Whip, Double Dance Moltres-Galar, Polteageist, Glowbro, and the return of Aegislash.
- Introduction of new moves like Clangorous Soul and Meteor Beam that make Kommo-O and Celesteela/Necrozma respectively highly obnoxious.
- Modification of the move Teleport to make setters like Xatu more efficient (in NU at least).
Screens as a playstyle may be brainless, but terrifying to play against when actually used by someone with a brain. Should there be a suspect on Light Clay, I will definitely try to get reqs and will not hesitate to ban it from the tier.
(Apologies for the double post)
With the UU Ladder Tournament in full swing, after playing at least 300 games and choking far too many times, I would like to share my thoughts about a threat which certainly deserves more usage: Zygarde-10%, or Zydog. Zydog is able to take full advantage of metagame trends, and l will explain why in greater detail.
The rise of Zydog
The April tier shifts benefit Zydog immensely. Slowking checks Zydog very well and Regenerator makes spamming Thousand Arrows not as worthwhile, so Slowking rising to OU definitely helps. Faster threats like Alakazam and Zeraora being gone is particularly important because it opens up a lot of other speedy threats like Thundurus, something which Zydog capitalises on. Noivern not being too common at the moment also makes Zydog one of the fastest relevant threats, sharing its speed tier of 115 together with Azelf and Raikou. Besides offensive mons, Zydog is also able to exploit rising defensive threats like Rhyperior and Glowbro. Even the shift towards AV Tangrowth makes CB Outrage much more threatening. Please take a look at the current discussion slate in the VR thread, and think about what that means for Zydog’s viability. Spoiler alert: it’s good news.
Zygarde-10% @ Choice Band
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Toxic
This set is definitely the best, though I have seen more creative variants like Coil + Thousand Waves Zydog (s/o to Kitten Milk). We all know how spammable Thousand Arrows is. Amidst all the talk about Screens HO, Espeed is definitely useful in picking off weakened threats. Toxic helps to cripple Zydog’s counters such as Tangrowth, Buzzwole and Tapu Bulu, all of whom love switching in. Zydog is also pretty easy to support with VoltTurn and Spikes (Mew says hi), the latter being especially threatening because even defensive mons like Amoongus and Scizor become easily overwhelmed if the opponent is not careful enough to keep Spikes off the field. This replay here provides a good example of how effective Zydog is given the right support.
To end off this post, I will drop the team that I have been using this past week during UULT. Feel free to try it out, it is fun and quite effective (scored about 76% GXE on average). https://pokepast.es/4f034bf4f2ae7eb2
With the UU Ladder Tournament in full swing, after playing at least 300 games and choking far too many times, I would like to share my thoughts about a threat which certainly deserves more usage: Zygarde-10%, or Zydog. Zydog is able to take full advantage of metagame trends, and l will explain why in greater detail.
The rise of Zydog
The April tier shifts benefit Zydog immensely. Slowking checks Zydog very well and Regenerator makes spamming Thousand Arrows not as worthwhile, so Slowking rising to OU definitely helps. Faster threats like Alakazam and Zeraora being gone is particularly important because it opens up a lot of other speedy threats like Thundurus, something which Zydog capitalises on. Noivern not being too common at the moment also makes Zydog one of the fastest relevant threats, sharing its speed tier of 115 together with Azelf and Raikou. Besides offensive mons, Zydog is also able to exploit rising defensive threats like Rhyperior and Glowbro. Even the shift towards AV Tangrowth makes CB Outrage much more threatening. Please take a look at the current discussion slate in the VR thread, and think about what that means for Zydog’s viability. Spoiler alert: it’s good news.
- Aegislash A -> A+
- Nihilego A- -> A
- Lycanroc-Dusk A- -> A (nominated by Lilburr)
Zygarde-10% @ Choice Band
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Toxic
This set is definitely the best, though I have seen more creative variants like Coil + Thousand Waves Zydog (s/o to Kitten Milk). We all know how spammable Thousand Arrows is. Amidst all the talk about Screens HO, Espeed is definitely useful in picking off weakened threats. Toxic helps to cripple Zydog’s counters such as Tangrowth, Buzzwole and Tapu Bulu, all of whom love switching in. Zydog is also pretty easy to support with VoltTurn and Spikes (Mew says hi), the latter being especially threatening because even defensive mons like Amoongus and Scizor become easily overwhelmed if the opponent is not careful enough to keep Spikes off the field. This replay here provides a good example of how effective Zydog is given the right support.
To end off this post, I will drop the team that I have been using this past week during UULT. Feel free to try it out, it is fun and quite effective (scored about 76% GXE on average). https://pokepast.es/4f034bf4f2ae7eb2
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Hi.
In this post I will attempt to answer the questions from the UU survey in order to hopefully provide some constructive feedback to the council.
How much do you enjoy SS UU right now, on a scale of 1 to 10 (with 1 being the worst and 10 being the best)?
For me, I give this an 8/10. This tier is fun to play and mostly enjoyable, but doesn't compare to my personal favourites like ORAS UU. However, it's certainly more fun than average for me, so I think a B+/A- is an appropriate ranking.
Some of the main things I enjoy are 1) the high level of innovation I see on the ladder and in UUFPL; 2) the amount of lower tier Pokemon that are viable; and 3), the fact that a wide variety of team styles (BO, screens, various forms of HO, stall to a lesser extent) are effective.
The main things holding the tier back to me are 1) the strength of screens and the "lose on team preview" matchups that come with it, 2) a limited selection of viable hazard removers, and 3) ladder quality/inactivity (although this isn't anyone's fault. The ladder tour is helping with point 3) as well).
How competitive do you find SS UU to be right now, on a scale of 1 to 10 (with 1 being the worst and 10 being the best)?
I'll give this a 7/10. Screens and other forms of HO (sun, psychic terrain) make matchup fishing stronger then it should be and makes it so that teambuilding is limited. Specifically, the fact that you are forced to run certain cores/mons/sets to cover as many cheese matchups as possible and minimize the chance of auto-losing at team preview.
The UU Council has been looking at Mew's influence on the tier lately, primarily due to its Spikes set and Nasty Plot sets being extremely restrictive to build against. How do you feel about Mew's current position?
I agree that Mew should be looked at. In a tier with somewhat poor options for hazard removal, knock off+spikes Mew is difficult to deal with (knock off removing boots from hazard removers allows Mew to eventually get spikes up).
I support a suspect test. However, I'm against a quick ban. The community should have the final say on this.
We have also been keeping a close eye on two other Pokemon, the first of which is Primarina primarily due to its Choice Specs set but also its Substitute + Calm Mind set. How do you feel about its presence?
I think Primarina is fine. Primarina's speed, lack of steel resistance, abeing stonewalled by Chansey (and to a lesser extent AV Tangrowth if it isn't calm mind), and vulnerability to being revenge killed by common Pokemon like Zarude, the Thundy forms/Raikou, and any faster physical attacker after some chip damage keeps it in check.
We have been considering Galarian Slowbro for a while now, mostly due to its Calm Mind set. Its Nasty Plot set with Quick Draw + Quick Claw has also been regaled as uncompetitive and broken. What do you think should be done about it, if anything?
I dislike the quick draw+quick claw gimmick like most people. It's a cheesy set that feels bad to lose to. However, I don't think Globro or that set is troubling enough to actually suspect.
Finally, a large portion of the council and the overall community has mentioned that they want us to do something about dual screens. What would you prefer to see if we can do anything at all?
Screens badly needs a nerf in my opinion. It forces you to always think about it and the plethora of annoying Pokemon that abuse it (Meteor Beam Necrozma/nihilego/celestella, kommo-o, Gyra, mew, mence, moltres, scizor, and so many more). I strongly feel that screens is holding the tier back. Not only does it restrict teambuilding, but it also limits people's creativity and the variety of teams people make since it's so dominant.
I think a light clay suspect test is the best way forward with this. Although I'm someone who usually votes no ban in suspects, I will be voting ban if this suspect test moves forward.
I guess I also need a song....
Enjoy!!
In this post I will attempt to answer the questions from the UU survey in order to hopefully provide some constructive feedback to the council.
How much do you enjoy SS UU right now, on a scale of 1 to 10 (with 1 being the worst and 10 being the best)?
For me, I give this an 8/10. This tier is fun to play and mostly enjoyable, but doesn't compare to my personal favourites like ORAS UU. However, it's certainly more fun than average for me, so I think a B+/A- is an appropriate ranking.
Some of the main things I enjoy are 1) the high level of innovation I see on the ladder and in UUFPL; 2) the amount of lower tier Pokemon that are viable; and 3), the fact that a wide variety of team styles (BO, screens, various forms of HO, stall to a lesser extent) are effective.
The main things holding the tier back to me are 1) the strength of screens and the "lose on team preview" matchups that come with it, 2) a limited selection of viable hazard removers, and 3) ladder quality/inactivity (although this isn't anyone's fault. The ladder tour is helping with point 3) as well).
How competitive do you find SS UU to be right now, on a scale of 1 to 10 (with 1 being the worst and 10 being the best)?
I'll give this a 7/10. Screens and other forms of HO (sun, psychic terrain) make matchup fishing stronger then it should be and makes it so that teambuilding is limited. Specifically, the fact that you are forced to run certain cores/mons/sets to cover as many cheese matchups as possible and minimize the chance of auto-losing at team preview.
The UU Council has been looking at Mew's influence on the tier lately, primarily due to its Spikes set and Nasty Plot sets being extremely restrictive to build against. How do you feel about Mew's current position?
I agree that Mew should be looked at. In a tier with somewhat poor options for hazard removal, knock off+spikes Mew is difficult to deal with (knock off removing boots from hazard removers allows Mew to eventually get spikes up).
I support a suspect test. However, I'm against a quick ban. The community should have the final say on this.
We have also been keeping a close eye on two other Pokemon, the first of which is Primarina primarily due to its Choice Specs set but also its Substitute + Calm Mind set. How do you feel about its presence?
I think Primarina is fine. Primarina's speed, lack of steel resistance, abeing stonewalled by Chansey (and to a lesser extent AV Tangrowth if it isn't calm mind), and vulnerability to being revenge killed by common Pokemon like Zarude, the Thundy forms/Raikou, and any faster physical attacker after some chip damage keeps it in check.
We have been considering Galarian Slowbro for a while now, mostly due to its Calm Mind set. Its Nasty Plot set with Quick Draw + Quick Claw has also been regaled as uncompetitive and broken. What do you think should be done about it, if anything?
I dislike the quick draw+quick claw gimmick like most people. It's a cheesy set that feels bad to lose to. However, I don't think Globro or that set is troubling enough to actually suspect.
Finally, a large portion of the council and the overall community has mentioned that they want us to do something about dual screens. What would you prefer to see if we can do anything at all?
Screens badly needs a nerf in my opinion. It forces you to always think about it and the plethora of annoying Pokemon that abuse it (Meteor Beam Necrozma/nihilego/celestella, kommo-o, Gyra, mew, mence, moltres, scizor, and so many more). I strongly feel that screens is holding the tier back. Not only does it restrict teambuilding, but it also limits people's creativity and the variety of teams people make since it's so dominant.
I think a light clay suspect test is the best way forward with this. Although I'm someone who usually votes no ban in suspects, I will be voting ban if this suspect test moves forward.
I guess I also need a song....
Enjoy!!
Heads up, the council is going to be voting on Light Clay over the next few days unless there's significant opposition to it - the reasons can be found here (read this post and a couple above it) but basically we want to deal with other issues and don't want this holding things up especially when it's been a problem for so long. This does not mean we won't be potentially looking at things like Gyarados / Mew / Kommo-o / whatever else if they continue to be problematic. Please post here or in the PR thread if you have significant opposition and expect a decision within a few days!!
I just want to mention that, I do think a lot of people were not expecting a council vote and instead were expecting a suspect test of sorts. However, I just want to re-iterate what I said in the PR thread about this:
First, I don't think screens are broken, but I rarely think anything is broken so that's probably not important. That being said:
I do hope that, in banning Light Clay right now, people are going to keep an open mind that this might not actually be the best course of action that fixes things that they think are broken.
By that, I mean that if you think Screens are a problem and that Light Clay ban will fix it, then that's fine, let's ban it. But everyone I think needs to understand that we don't play in a metagame without Light Clay at the moment, so we are not going to know if this is truly going to fix it until after it is done. So while it's nice to theorize that this will fix it, and it is well reasoned and logically based, I hope everybody realizes there is a possibility they are wrong and the real fix is somewhere else.
That leads me to this final point:
I do also hope that we do not end up banning all of the sweepers anyways later on, while also keeping Light Clay ban, as one of the primary reasons a lot of people are supporting a Light Clay ban is because they don't want to ban several Pokemon instead. This isn't true for everybody, but I know several people that have used this reasoning as the main point to ban Clay right now over something else.
If the problem persists, and we need to ban sweepers, then please re-test Light Clay back into the tier afterwards. Otherwise what you end up with is Light Clay being banned, significantly nerfing the playstyle, and then the main sweepers also banned, effectively nullifying it. There will be no more screens HO if that happens, and while that's fine and dandy for some people, I don't think it's something that the tier should be doing.
I don't want this to be misconstrued as me being in staunch opposition of a Light Clay ban - again, if the council thinks Screens is a problem, then go for it and take action. This is more of a cautionary post that I hope we can remember several weeks down the road if the problem that we believe exists does not end up being resolved.
First, I don't think screens are broken, but I rarely think anything is broken so that's probably not important. That being said:
I do hope that, in banning Light Clay right now, people are going to keep an open mind that this might not actually be the best course of action that fixes things that they think are broken.
By that, I mean that if you think Screens are a problem and that Light Clay ban will fix it, then that's fine, let's ban it. But everyone I think needs to understand that we don't play in a metagame without Light Clay at the moment, so we are not going to know if this is truly going to fix it until after it is done. So while it's nice to theorize that this will fix it, and it is well reasoned and logically based, I hope everybody realizes there is a possibility they are wrong and the real fix is somewhere else.
That leads me to this final point:
I do also hope that we do not end up banning all of the sweepers anyways later on, while also keeping Light Clay ban, as one of the primary reasons a lot of people are supporting a Light Clay ban is because they don't want to ban several Pokemon instead. This isn't true for everybody, but I know several people that have used this reasoning as the main point to ban Clay right now over something else.
If the problem persists, and we need to ban sweepers, then please re-test Light Clay back into the tier afterwards. Otherwise what you end up with is Light Clay being banned, significantly nerfing the playstyle, and then the main sweepers also banned, effectively nullifying it. There will be no more screens HO if that happens, and while that's fine and dandy for some people, I don't think it's something that the tier should be doing.
I don't want this to be misconstrued as me being in staunch opposition of a Light Clay ban - again, if the council thinks Screens is a problem, then go for it and take action. This is more of a cautionary post that I hope we can remember several weeks down the road if the problem that we believe exists does not end up being resolved.
I understand people were expecting a suspect but the schedule is kinda shitty. With the ongoing UULT, doing a suspect test would be overkill for players which would like to do both. On the other hand, I think the issue is already known since a lot of time within the community and a pretty significant amount of players already expressed their opinion on this topic. It's not a new issue but something which have been lurking for some time now.
Edit : Also as a player I fully disagree with the option of banning all screen abusers then re-test Light Clay because Light Clay doesn't bring anything to the tier bar helping Screens Offense. On the other hand, many threatening sweepers in this archetype are also super useful, great and healthy Pokémon in Underused (Scizor, Kommo-o, Moltres-G etc..).
Edit : Also as a player I fully disagree with the option of banning all screen abusers then re-test Light Clay because Light Clay doesn't bring anything to the tier bar helping Screens Offense. On the other hand, many threatening sweepers in this archetype are also super useful, great and healthy Pokémon in Underused (Scizor, Kommo-o, Moltres-G etc..).
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This has been clarified to you multiple times at this stage, this decision is not absolutely binding or final and if it doesn't solve the issue then we'll look into it further. I even mentioned it in my post right above yours.
Two things. First, Sabella has decided to move to an inactive council position. Thanks for all the work you did Booty, hope your motivation for the tier comes back at some point!
In addition, following a unanimous council vote which you can see the results for here, Light Clay is now banned from UU! Thanks to all who took part in the tiering survey and discussions over time. We'll be monitoring the tier's course as usual from here on out.
I think you misunderstood what I said. I understand you will look at other things if the problem persists - my point was that when you do so, you revisit this decision. The wording of your post seems to suggest the opposite - that you may potentially ban other things on top of clay without revisited the clay ban. So, since that is not what you meant, it seems I also misunderstood your post. Thank you for the clarification. I am happy that we are open to re-testing clay in the future if another route is taken later to correct this issue.
Hello! I am Nightingales, and I pull some dumb shit. Recently, I've been running a more unique Gyarados set.
Gyarados @ Chesto Berry / Power Herb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Rest / Power Whip
- Bounce
The goal of this set isn't to be your traditional "I've got a free turn and I'll make your life hell." This Gyarados set generally aims to make grasses hate you. You've got enough bulk to take a hit from some of the tier's scariest revenge killers, and at +1 you outspeed anything base 115 or slower. Rest, on the other hand, it's used to more or less press the reset button when you're low, status'ed, or something else you'd want to start fresh with. The tradeoff is less immediate power, but more staying power.
I don't see this set in particular taking over the meta, but there is potential for some changes. With more HP EVs, you can take hits to somewhat make up for losing screens. This particular spread maxes out your bulk while outpacing the meta to some degree, but you can run max HP max Spe, or some other combination.
To make this more succinct: I can see Gyarados running more bulk or changing its sets to make up for losing screens.
Footnote: Yes, I said losing screens. I know screens are still usable, but they're nowhere near as viable now. That's all.
Gyarados @ Chesto Berry / Power Herb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Rest / Power Whip
- Bounce
The goal of this set isn't to be your traditional "I've got a free turn and I'll make your life hell." This Gyarados set generally aims to make grasses hate you. You've got enough bulk to take a hit from some of the tier's scariest revenge killers, and at +1 you outspeed anything base 115 or slower. Rest, on the other hand, it's used to more or less press the reset button when you're low, status'ed, or something else you'd want to start fresh with. The tradeoff is less immediate power, but more staying power.
I don't see this set in particular taking over the meta, but there is potential for some changes. With more HP EVs, you can take hits to somewhat make up for losing screens. This particular spread maxes out your bulk while outpacing the meta to some degree, but you can run max HP max Spe, or some other combination.
To make this more succinct: I can see Gyarados running more bulk or changing its sets to make up for losing screens.
Footnote: Yes, I said losing screens. I know screens are still usable, but they're nowhere near as viable now. That's all.
So in case you guys haven't seen them yet, the usage stats are out! Mostly the same stuff from last time, but some interesting changes involve Mew and Scizor being projected to rise to OU next month. This is especially big for Mew, as there has been discussion on suspect testing the thing. So, with the knowledge that Mew will most likely be rising next month, what do we do with it? Do we go ahead with a suspect test, or do we wait out the month?
Fine with either but I generally agree with the sentiment Mew is most worthy to be tested and deserves to be tested. Other things include Slowbro-Galarian and Aegislash which are almost suspect worthy but I'd still vote no ban. Feel free to tag me if anyone wants elaboration but I'm not asking for change now.
Relatively underused Pokemon I like and what they do for the meta right now:
- - Defensive Tapu Bulu - defensive sets can fit dazzling to beat Kommo-o unlike the regen grasses we have plus the extra speed lets you beat Azu and Crawdaunt which the regen grasses cannot
- - T-wave Chansey - Thunder Wave sets are good to badly weaken a myriad of Toxic immunities we have including Scizor, Aegislash, Slowbro-Galar, Nihilego and even Amoonguss, twave just gives you different matchups compared to a common Toxic set and frankly expands the number of Pokemon you annoy
- - Assault Vest Azumraill - prepping for Primarina and Azumarill are different and fortunately people often only consciously prepare for Primarina these days. Ice Punch does a number to Amoonguss and AV Tangrowth while being able to have priority hits Nihilego, Mamoswine, Nidoqueen, and Krookodile for good damage or OHKOs. Finally I'll mention AV is a fine item on Azumarill to more easily beat Moltres and even 1v1 Thundurus (both forms)
- - Leech Seed Celesteela - I think this was S rank at one point and almost suspect tested but he's much rarer now, particularly as people seem to be tiring of Meteor Beam spam. Leech Seed Specially Defensive sets are still really good though since they own a lot of the common Aegislash sets (sub toxic, kings shield +3 attacks, and toxic + 2 attacks all get crushed). Plus you beat any Scizor set 1v1 with Flamethrower so it's nice
- Choice Band Zygarde-10% - I wouldn't say he's great but he comes close to 2HKOing Amoonguss with Thousand Arrows and we seem to be in the "ebb" phase for Tangrowth / "flow" phase for Amoonguss right now. The speed tier and priority is nice and you can surprisingly switch into some things at least once despite the poor bulk (Nihilego, Thundurus, Rotom Heat and Wash).
So in the wake of the tier basically being shaken up due to all the rises and drops, I have a rather interesting option from the RU tier that I've been enjoying lately (and has been deadly) in UU
Chandelure
Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast (Depends on your preference of power v accuracy)
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Trick
"But wait, why not use Moltres or Rotom-Heat?" Well, let's take a look at what spooky lamp has to offer.
- Ghost and Fire as an offensive STAB combination is deadly in the current meta, nailing threats like Amoonguss, Azelf, Buzzwole, Aegislash, Celesteela, Hatterene, Jirachi, Mamoswine, Mew, A-Ninetales, Scizor, Tangrowth, and Tapu Bulu super effectively.
- Access to fantastic coverage in Energy Ball (meaning Quagsire can't waltz in front of it as it can Moltres and Rotom-Heat), along with hitting Pokemon commonly switched in like Keldeo, Krookodile, Azumarill, Crawdaunt, Lycanrock-Dusk, Primarina, and Rotom-Wash for super effective damage.
- Access to Flame Body to punish physical attackers (although if the fire immunity is important to your team, you can run its other fantastic ability, Flash Fire, instead).
- Access to Trick to punish setup sweepers and bulkier stall mons (almost completely shuts down stalwart Pokemon like Chansey, Amoonguss, and Celesteela)
- Is immune to Fighting and Normal-type attacks, has a 4x resistance to Bug-type attacks, and also resists Fairy, Poison, Steel, Fire, Grass, and Ice-type moves.
- Has a unique movepool with other options such as Memento, Taunt, Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, Pain Split, Haze, Clear Smog, Calm Mind, and quite a bit more.
- Rotom's 105 Special Attack and Moltres's 125 Special Attack pales in comparison to Chandelure's 145 Special Attack (which is tied with Eternatus for a comparison of how bonkers this spooky boi is).
- Has offensive role compression that Moltres and Rotom-Heat could only dream of.
- Benefits from Tapu Bulu support (and from opposing Tapu Bulu) in ways Rotom-Heat and Moltres can't (such as gaining additional recovery in Grassy Terrain + having a boosted Energy Ball to smack Waters, Rocks, and Grounds.
- Chandelure's defensive stats are 60 / 90 / 90, while Moltres has 90 / 90 / 85 and Rotom-Heat has 50 / 107 / 107. It's a weird "in-between" of sorts. Definitely not unusable but something to be aware of.
- Slightly slower speed tier. Chandelure's base 80 speed is not too much slower than Rotom-Heat's 86 and Moltres's 90, but it does miss out on some crucial outspeeds (hence why I recommend Choice Scarf).
- Isn't immune to Ground-types like Rotom-Heat and Moltres are thanks to their ability and typing respectively.
- Being weak to Ghost / Dark-type moves can also suck.
Tapu Bulu - Auto Grassy Terrain setup halves damage from Bulldoze and Earthquake, gives Chandelure passive recovery, and powers up its Energy Ball by 50% (meaning Waters, Grounds and Rocks have a much harder time handling it offensively)
Grimmsnarl - Prankster support (such as Thunder Wave) and STAB Fairy attacks to maim Dark and Fighting-type checks such as Crawdaunt, Krookodile, G-Moltres, and Keldeo.
Gyarados - Intimidate to neuter Azumarill, immunity to Ground, resists Water, compliments Chandelure perfectly in many regards.
Chandelure is not an easy Pokemon to use, and the additional weaknesses / lower speed can kind of suck; but the massively increased power output, ability to handle way more threats than either Moltres or Rotom-Heat can, and key immunities can make Chandelure a vital part of your team. If Chandelure's monstrous power, offensive role compression, neat movepool and uniquely powerful offensive STAB combination seem great to you like they have been for me, give him a try!
Chandelure
Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast (Depends on your preference of power v accuracy)
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Trick
"But wait, why not use Moltres or Rotom-Heat?" Well, let's take a look at what spooky lamp has to offer.
Advantages:
- Ghost and Fire as an offensive STAB combination is deadly in the current meta, nailing threats like Amoonguss, Azelf, Buzzwole, Aegislash, Celesteela, Hatterene, Jirachi, Mamoswine, Mew, A-Ninetales, Scizor, Tangrowth, and Tapu Bulu super effectively.
- Access to fantastic coverage in Energy Ball (meaning Quagsire can't waltz in front of it as it can Moltres and Rotom-Heat), along with hitting Pokemon commonly switched in like Keldeo, Krookodile, Azumarill, Crawdaunt, Lycanrock-Dusk, Primarina, and Rotom-Wash for super effective damage.
- Access to Flame Body to punish physical attackers (although if the fire immunity is important to your team, you can run its other fantastic ability, Flash Fire, instead).
- Access to Trick to punish setup sweepers and bulkier stall mons (almost completely shuts down stalwart Pokemon like Chansey, Amoonguss, and Celesteela)
- Is immune to Fighting and Normal-type attacks, has a 4x resistance to Bug-type attacks, and also resists Fairy, Poison, Steel, Fire, Grass, and Ice-type moves.
- Has a unique movepool with other options such as Memento, Taunt, Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, Pain Split, Haze, Clear Smog, Calm Mind, and quite a bit more.
- Rotom's 105 Special Attack and Moltres's 125 Special Attack pales in comparison to Chandelure's 145 Special Attack (which is tied with Eternatus for a comparison of how bonkers this spooky boi is).
- Has offensive role compression that Moltres and Rotom-Heat could only dream of.
- Benefits from Tapu Bulu support (and from opposing Tapu Bulu) in ways Rotom-Heat and Moltres can't (such as gaining additional recovery in Grassy Terrain + having a boosted Energy Ball to smack Waters, Rocks, and Grounds.
Disadvantages:
- Chandelure's defensive stats are 60 / 90 / 90, while Moltres has 90 / 90 / 85 and Rotom-Heat has 50 / 107 / 107. It's a weird "in-between" of sorts. Definitely not unusable but something to be aware of.
- Slightly slower speed tier. Chandelure's base 80 speed is not too much slower than Rotom-Heat's 86 and Moltres's 90, but it does miss out on some crucial outspeeds (hence why I recommend Choice Scarf).
- Isn't immune to Ground-types like Rotom-Heat and Moltres are thanks to their ability and typing respectively.
- Being weak to Ghost / Dark-type moves can also suck.
Great Potential Partners:
Tapu Bulu - Auto Grassy Terrain setup halves damage from Bulldoze and Earthquake, gives Chandelure passive recovery, and powers up its Energy Ball by 50% (meaning Waters, Grounds and Rocks have a much harder time handling it offensively)
Grimmsnarl - Prankster support (such as Thunder Wave) and STAB Fairy attacks to maim Dark and Fighting-type checks such as Crawdaunt, Krookodile, G-Moltres, and Keldeo.
Gyarados - Intimidate to neuter Azumarill, immunity to Ground, resists Water, compliments Chandelure perfectly in many regards.
Chandelure is not an easy Pokemon to use, and the additional weaknesses / lower speed can kind of suck; but the massively increased power output, ability to handle way more threats than either Moltres or Rotom-Heat can, and key immunities can make Chandelure a vital part of your team. If Chandelure's monstrous power, offensive role compression, neat movepool and uniquely powerful offensive STAB combination seem great to you like they have been for me, give him a try!
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Wanted to spark a bit of discussion, kind of like how CheesyBrie did before last shift
1. What is the Pokemon you enjoy the most?
Buzzwole. When it first dropped, I initially inclined towards more offensive sets, such as Choice Band. But I found out that defensive sets are so good at soft checking many top Pokemon such as Krookodile, Scizor, and Zarude. Toxic is so useful for breaking down walls such as Tangrowth, Rocky Helmet can punish those physical attacks and it can Roost it off as if it took no damage at all.
2. What Pokemon has felt underwhelming?
Rotom-H has not had a good time lately, as a Defogger that is utterly helpless against the best Stealth Rock setter, Nihilego. Nasty Plot sets are too easily taken advantage of and it is in a really bad spot right now
3. What Pokemon are you most afraid to see on the opposing team?
Mew has been the best Pokemon in the tier for about a month and a half, taking advantage of the lackluster hazard removal we have right now. If your team has no way of removing hazards, then their hard hitting teammates such as Lycanroc can wreak havoc on your team.
4. What are any Pokemon RU and below you have had success with?
Zarude is the obvious answer for now, as it can shut down a lot of annoying Pokemon such as SubToxic Aegislash, which is fantastic for bulky offense teams.
1. What is the Pokemon you enjoy the most?
Buzzwole. When it first dropped, I initially inclined towards more offensive sets, such as Choice Band. But I found out that defensive sets are so good at soft checking many top Pokemon such as Krookodile, Scizor, and Zarude. Toxic is so useful for breaking down walls such as Tangrowth, Rocky Helmet can punish those physical attacks and it can Roost it off as if it took no damage at all.
2. What Pokemon has felt underwhelming?
Rotom-H has not had a good time lately, as a Defogger that is utterly helpless against the best Stealth Rock setter, Nihilego. Nasty Plot sets are too easily taken advantage of and it is in a really bad spot right now
3. What Pokemon are you most afraid to see on the opposing team?
Mew has been the best Pokemon in the tier for about a month and a half, taking advantage of the lackluster hazard removal we have right now. If your team has no way of removing hazards, then their hard hitting teammates such as Lycanroc can wreak havoc on your team.
4. What are any Pokemon RU and below you have had success with?
Zarude is the obvious answer for now, as it can shut down a lot of annoying Pokemon such as SubToxic Aegislash, which is fantastic for bulky offense teams.
For people that still doesn't know Terrain was nerfed in Gen 8. Now only give a 30% buff aka Life Orb and can be defogged away.
For Chandelure, if you are running Scarf you need good hazzard control bc the chandelier is weak to all form of Hazzard, especially Stealth Rock.
Data usage for July and Tier shifts are up!
Changes that affect us:
Mew moved from UU to OU
Scizor moved from UU to OU
Nidoking moved from OU to UU
Pelipper moved from OU to UU
Regieleki moved from OU to UU
Slowbro-Galar moved from RUBL to UU
Thundurus moved from RUBL to UU
Zygarde-10% moved from RUBL to UU
Rhyperior moved from RU to UU
Zarude moved from RU to UU
Changes that affect us:
Mew moved from UU to OU
Scizor moved from UU to OU
Nidoking moved from OU to UU
Pelipper moved from OU to UU
Regieleki moved from OU to UU
Slowbro-Galar moved from RUBL to UU
Thundurus moved from RUBL to UU
Zygarde-10% moved from RUBL to UU
Rhyperior moved from RU to UU
Zarude moved from RU to UU
Well, nice knowing you Scizor and Mew. Stay gone please!
Regi is strong but probably not worth using, but Nidoking’s pretty good. Rain coming back though, that’s… scary?
Regi is strong but probably not worth using, but Nidoking’s pretty good. Rain coming back though, that’s… scary?
screenshotted for when regieleki is A+ rank in 2 weeks
- Status