The Best and Worst Boss Fights in Pokemon

khlaylav said:
I dunno if the rivals really count as bosses per se, but I just swept Serena with a freakin Ninjask. That's sad.
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Bug is /REALLY/ good against the XY rival. Specifically, Fury Cutter just wrecks* until roughly they add an Altaria to their team. IDK why, none of the other rivals in that game have such an obvious weakness, but bug just destroys Serena/Calem.

*Yes, if you chose Chespin, Delphox resists it. A 160 BP stab does not care about resists.
 
I find it amusing when Game Freak has you fight the same person multiple times over, yet their teams are strong early on and pathetic later on.

Giovanni in FR/LG is actually pretty tough the first time you fight him. He's slightly easier in Silph Co, and a total joke in Viridian Gym (like I legitimately never had trouble against that iteration of him, in contrast his FR/LG version actually gave me a headache at times).

Silver in GSC and HGSS is very challenging in Azalea Town, defeating me there many times over in Crystal. He's still annoying in Ecruteak, though not quite as difficult. Then you fight him in Goldenrod, and he's...eh. Fight him in Victory Road, and he's...nothing special at all.

Your rival in RSE counts too, not so much in ORAS given that their endgame team in ORAS is actually pretty strong. They are very challenging in that route (y'all know which one I mean, it's the second time you fight them IIRC), but beyond that point are moderately difficult at best.

I like characters that subvert this trend though. Blue more or less stays challenging every time you fight him, Wally becomes MUCH tougher, N too (albeit in his final fight), and Hau I think manages to stay relevant-ish from beginning to end, definitely a bit tougher in the end than at first glance.
 
Wukong said:
Unfortunately, you will probably experience a spike at Clair then a big one at Lance. That's the problem with GSC that HGSS did not fix, was the pacing being so uneven. A lot of Johto is sleepwalking through easy routes and Gym Leaders like Pryce and Chuck (who I'll come back to) then randomly facing a boss like Lance who is hard for all the wrong reasons, because you don't have the resources to beat him fair, not because of some amazing strategy on his part.

Back to Chuck, on the topic of this thread I nominate him as the worst Gym Leader in the series. Being the 5th Gym in his region, to only have two Pokémon neither of which are native to his region, is pathetic. I mainly focused on higher stakes Champion fights in my original post but I consider Chuck the worst Gym, and quite possibly the worst overall boss fight in the series. Though Rocket Executives Petrel and Proton from the same game are serious contenders as well.

Zinzolin from B2W2 is also really bad. Really silly name and outfit in my opinion, along with using the Sinnoh native Weavile as his ace when Cyrus already did this in DPPt.
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Don’t forget two Cryogonal when you can’t even catch them until postgame. Shame as Cryogonal isn’t that bad of a mon to use in BW1 if you don’t want to use Vanillite (we don’t talk about Beartic because it sucks).
 
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aegon the unlikely said:
I like characters that subvert this trend though. Blue more or less stays challenging every time you fight him, Wally becomes MUCH tougher, N too (albeit in his final fight), and Hau I think manages to stay relevant-ish from beginning to end, definitely a bit tougher in the end than at first glance.
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Cyrus in Platinum too. His third fight in Distortion World is much harder than his first two fights.

Ironically, his Commanders Mars and Jupiter are the opposite. Their later fights like atop Spear Pillar, while cool, are not that difficult. However, the first fight against each of them are probably, along with Fantina, the three hardest fights in the first half of Platinum.

On the topic of this thread, the Team Galactic Commanders are good examples of how to get the villain team Admin fights right (yet another thing Platinum gets right), while Petrel and Proton in HGSS are at the opposite end of that spectrum.
 
Wukong said:
Cyrus in Platinum too. His third fight in Distortion World is much harder than his first two fights.

Ironically, his Commanders Mars and Jupiter are the opposite. Their later fights like atop Spear Pillar, while cool, are not that difficult. However, the first fight against each of them are probably, along with Fantina, the three hardest fights in the first half of Platinum.

On the topic of this thread, the Team Galactic Commanders are good examples of how to get the villain team Admin fights right (yet another thing Platinum gets right), while Petrel and Proton in HGSS are at the opposite end of that spectrum.
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On the other hand Saturn just...exists. In BOTH fights he feels irrelevant (even if Mars 2 isn't exactly challenging).

"I will fight you with a mediocre team at a drained lake! And then I will fight you with more or less the SAME mediocre team after my boss a few hours later, because POTATOES!"
 
Volt-Ikazuchi said:
What did that poor girl ever do to you? :psycry:
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So I'm doing a Flying mono with one Pokemon from each gen and due to lack of care about Wingull threw in Ninjask. It was after the fifth gym, it was the fight outside of Lumiose, her Meowstic failed to KO with a Fake Out/Psychic despite Ninjask having a -Special Defense nature, Swords Dance, buh bye (she had a Chesnaught).

It actually did work against Valerie too. Mawile gone, Mr. Mime gone, heavy hit to Sylveon. Maybe I've been underestimating Ninjask...
 
DrumstickGaming said:
On the other hand Saturn just...exists. In BOTH fights he feels irrelevant (even if Mars 2 isn't exactly challenging).

"I will fight you with a mediocre team at a drained lake! And then I will fight you with more or less the SAME mediocre team after my boss a few hours later, because POTATOES!"
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Yeah the second fight against Saturn always felt forced to me. You just finished beating his boss, what makes him think he'll stop you now. And to your point like less than one Gym badge after you first beat him.

Though I do like that Saturn uses a unique Sinnoh Pokémon as his ace. Toxicroak is a very cool and on brand Pokémon for a villain team Admin to use and isn't used by any other Sinnoh boss.

That's why I say the Galactic Commanders are the best villain team Admins since they all use unique Sinnoh native Pokémon as their aces, making them more distinct and memorable. Petrel using five Koffings and a Weezing, and Proton using a Golbat and Weezing, make them incredibly generic. The Aqua and Magma Admins use exactly the same Pokémon as their bosses so they fail to stand out as well. And I already talked about Zinzolin but I wish all three Shadow Triad members used Unova Pokémon as their aces, instead of two out of the three using Hoenn aces.
 
Wukong said:
Yeah the second fight against Saturn always felt forced to me. You just finished beating his boss, what makes him think he'll stop you now. And to your point like less than one Gym badge after you first beat him.

Though I do like that Saturn uses a unique Sinnoh Pokémon as his ace. Toxicroak is a very cool and on brand Pokémon for a villain team Admin to use and isn't used by any other Sinnoh boss.

That's why I say the Galactic Commanders are the best villain team Admins since they all use unique Sinnoh native Pokémon as their aces, making them more distinct and memorable. Petrel using five Koffings and a Weezing, and Proton using a Golbat and Weezing, make them incredibly generic. The Aqua and Magma Admins use exactly the same Pokémon as their bosses so they fail to stand out as well. And I already talked about Zinzolin but I wish all three Shadow Triad members used Unova Pokémon as their aces, instead of two out of the three using Hoenn aces.
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Honestly, Petrel using five Koffings and a Weezing may be generic, but giving them all the ability to blow up in your face makes it hilarious. And a serious dick move to Nuzlockes.
 
aegon the unlikely said:
Team Galactic has terrible grunts but excellent executives and a stellar boss fight.

Team Skull's Guzma and Plumeria are very strong too, even though most of the grunts are jokes.
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Honestly, most team grunts are a joke considering the very little variation between them, especially Team Rocket and Team Magma + Aqua.

Gen 2 and Gen 3 was pretty much the only generations where the Admins and Team Leader can be considered as pathetic, at least in the original RSE for the later generation.
 
At least with Skull the grunts feel intentionally a joke. I don't think it's entirely coincidental that even the "final battle" with them is still entirely unevolved Pokemon they'd been carrying all game. It goes with their "loser dropouts that no one takes seriously" aesthetic. I think Plumeria & Guzma, who do have their own issues as bosses mind, are the only members of Skull that use evolved pokemon; and Gladion i guess but he's really more his own thing.
 
R_N said:
At least with Skull the grunts feel intentionally a joke. I don't think it's entirely coincidental that even the "final battle" with them is still entirely unevolved Pokemon they'd been carrying all game. It goes with their "loser dropouts that no one takes seriously" aesthetic. I think Plumeria & Guzma, who do have their own issues as bosses mind, are the only members of Skull that use evolved pokemon; and Gladion i guess but he's really more his own thing.
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Yeah, that makes sense.

One argue that in Gen 2, Team Rocket is in a more in a shamble situation, hence the grunts not improving much. If it were told at least once in the main story, that would be understandable, but the fact that, as I said, the Admins being really pathetic and have atrociously generic teams at that makes it pretty awful all-around.
 
Volt-Ikazuchi said:
What did that poor girl ever do to you? :psycry:
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She did the worst offense any NPC could do to the player character: tell them they're their rival.

Serena: Hey player, on our journey of friendship I also want to improve myself. Can you help me become a better trainer by being my rival?
Player:
Serena: Player, let's battle for the last Mega Bracelet to see who deserves it!
Player:
Serena: Player, now that our adventure is over, thanks to you, I've become a strong trainer! Let's battle everyday so we can both continue to become stronger.
Player:
Final-Form.jpg


Wukong said:
Yeah the second fight against Saturn always felt forced to me. You just finished beating his boss, what makes him think he'll stop you now. And to your point like less than one Gym badge after you first beat him.
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Wasn't Saturn just providing a diversion so Cyrus and the rest of Team Galactic could get to Mt. Coronet?

aegon the unlikely said:
Team Skull's Guzma and Plumeria are very strong too, even though most of the grunts are jokes.
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I mean, that's kind of the point/joke with the Skull grunts in particular. They're losers, many being unable to complete the Island Challenge, that's why they're a part of Team Skull because they hate the old traditions for making them outcasts (usually via being a "shame/disappointment" to their family).

EDIT: Shedinja'd by R_N.
 
Samtendo09 said:
Yeah, that makes sense.

One argue that in Gen 2, Team Rocket is in a more in a shamble situation, hence the grunts not improving much. If it were told at least once in the main story, that would be understandable, but the fact that, as I said, the Admins being really pathetic and have atrociously generic teams at that makes it pretty awful all-around.
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Certainly not helped by most of these grunts (& the 2 admins) being around since FRLG's post-game with appropriately evolved teams, but thaaaaaat's the consequences of Johto's combination level curve and pacing, baybeeeee
 
You see, I always improve Grunts in my hacks. Just makes the villain team(s) more actually threatening and more fun to fight. I even have "tiers" for the teams that determine how strong they'd be with their Grunts (Flare ~ Rocket = Plasma = Aether > Galactic > Aqua = Magma >>>>> Skull). However even though Team Skull still intentionally sucks with their base Grunts, Elite Grunts exist. And Plumeria and Guzma are still as good as any boss. And just imagine Elite Grunts for other teams.
 
King Feraligatr said:
You see, I always improve Grunts in my hacks. Just makes the villain team(s) more actually threatening and more fun to fight. I even have "tiers" for the teams that determine how strong they'd be with their Grunts (Flare ~ Rocket = Plasma = Aether > Galactic > Aqua = Magma >>>>> Skull). However even though Team Skull still intentionally sucks with their base Grunts, Elite Grunts exist. And Plumeria and Guzma are still as good as any boss. And just imagine Elite Grunts for other teams.
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That treads into wishlisting territory but fan fixes do exist.

Do Team Skull do really have elite grunts in canon though?
 
Samtendo09 said:
That treads into wishlisting territory but fan fixes do exist.

Do Team Skull do really have elite grunts in canon though?
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R_N said:
I think that's just what KF does in his hacks: adds elite grunts
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R_N is right. I'm just stating a fact here. I tend to add Elite Grunts in my hacks. And when I said "And just imagine Elite Grunts for other teams.", I asked others to think about what I do for other teams' Elite Grunts.
 
I finished playing X, so it's that time again. Here we go.

Best: Viola
VSViola.png

Despite being the first gym leader, Viola actually managed to be decently challenging and interesting. The challenge was probably just from me picking the Fire starter, but I also think she's conceptually interesting. A first gym leader who inverts the expected starter matchups is pretty neat, and the kind of thing I wish they would do more often.

Worst: Korrina
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How does Korrina manage to be the worst fight ever three times? Most of the bosses in X, while not very hard or good, at least only make you fight them once. Korrina challenges you three times, and all three of the fights with her are embarrassingly easy. Her two identical Lucario both can't hit Ghost types at all in the first fight and go down with no effort, the only Pokémon she has that can hit Ghost types in her gym battle is a Machoke with Rock Tomb, and you actually have to try to lose the third battle against her Mega Lucario. What a joke.

Another Worst: Essentia
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Speaking of bosses that you have to fight multiple times, Essentia makes you fight her seven times throughout the Looker missions, and while she is harder than Korrina because she can actually inflict damage on all of your Pokémon, she's still not very hard, and fighting her seven times gets really boring really fast. It's made especially tedious because fights 4-6 use the same teams as fights 1-3 but at a slightly higher level, and fight 7 is literally just Xerosic's team. Lame.
 
The cool thing about Viola's battle, which you sort of alluded to, is that it subverts expectations when it comes to which starter does best against her. When you look at her being a Bug specialist, you would expect that Fennekin has the easiest time, Chespin has the hardest time, and Froakie has an in between performance.

But in practice, on the contrary, it's actually Chespin who has the best performance against Viola, because it resists Surskit's Water STAB and can survive Infestation from both Surskit and Vivillon, and it has access to Rollout, which means it can spam a Rollout that gets stronger each turn and 2HKO Surskit while KOing Vivillon. Fennekin has a slightly weaker matchup as Surskit has Water Sport and Bubble, but it can do alright against the Vivillon once Water Sport wears off. Froakie has the worst matchup of the three, because Surskit resists Bubble, Froakie doesn't resist Infestation like Fennekin does, and Vivillon is bulky enough to take repeated Bubbles and outlive Froakie.

That's honestly pretty darn cool imo.
 
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