Welp Gen 1 Mons get kind've screwed.Would this include no PS split for Gen 1-3 Mons?
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Any move that you can use on that gen 1 mon in gen 1 ou/ubers is fair game
So basically tauros is now OP ,mimikyu focus sash the come back and now there cursolax
This idea has been tossed around before and it's just way too subjective. The main issue arises when trying to determine which generation's mechanics to use in any given interaction.
Let's say Lapras uses Blizzard on a Salazzle. Would the Blizzard be neutral, because Ice-type moves were not resisted by Fire in Gen 1, or would it be resisted because Fire-types resist Ice in Gen 7? What happens if Weavile uses Night Slash on a Florges, who then retaliates with Moonblast? Going by Florges's mechanics, the Night Slash would be resisted and the Moonblast would be super effective, but going by Weavile's mechanics... the Fairy typing doesn't exist.
If Amoongus uses Spore on a Dewgong, would the Dewgong go to sleep for 1-7 turns and then be stunned upon waking, or would it go to sleep for 1-3 turns and have its counter reset when it switched out? If that same Amoongus used Spore on a Gogoat, would the Spore be blocked? Powder moves weren't blocked by Grass-types in Gen 5, but Grass-types were immune to powders in Gen 6.
What happens if a Pokemon, through something like Mirror Move or Mimic, uses a move from a future generation?
Espeon and Volcarona are in a sandstorm. Does Espeon take damage immediately after moving, and Volcarona at the end of the turn regardless of speed? What about Tauros? Sandstorm damage didn't exist in Gen 1. Or does it depend on what Pokemon set up the sandstorm? How much would Electric Terrain boost the power of Heliolisk? What about Boltund? What about Raichu?
If a Zangoose faints itself with Double-Edge before the target gets a chance to act, would the opponent get to act that turn? Would Zangoose's replacement be sent out before or after the opponent can heal from Leftovers?
The purpose of these questions is twofold, and neither fold is for you to actually answer them. Firstly, there are way too many situations where there is no objective way to handle things. Secondly, there are way too many situations just in general. Each generations has countless mechanical oddities beyond the flashy stuff like Gen 1 Wrap, so even if you went through every single niche scenario and weird mechanic and defined how they would play out and interact across generational divides (which you shouldn't; see the first fold) there are still probably going to be scenarios and mechanics that you just never considered.
Lapras blizzard would be neutral against salazzle
Weavile night slash would be resisted by fairy and moonblast would be super effective
Amoongus spore against a dewdong would last 1-3 and the counter would be reset when it switched out
Gogoat would be put to sleep by amoongus spore
Mirror move or mimic against future generation move will fail
It all depends on who set up the sandstorm
Depends who set up the electric terrain
No, the opponent would not get to act and the opponent and the zangoose's replacement will be sent out before the opponent restores hp with leftovers
But yes I can see that there are many scenarios
You completely missed the point of his post.Your solutions to all of these are very subjective,and there is no way to solve them objectively.This would be much better suited as a Solomod.
Here's a doozy -- submitted as an OM last gen, but was ultimately canned. Here's to sneaking it through the new regime hehe. This is more or less the prior submission verbatim.
Title: Wild Card, also accepting other ideas.
Premise: In the teambuilder, the Item and Ability slots are considered wild, and can be used to customize your pokemon in various ways. Things that may be put into the wild slots: Moves, Abilities, Items, Typing
Hope you like it. All feedback welcome!
Title: Wild Card, also accepting other ideas.
Premise: In the teambuilder, the Item and Ability slots are considered wild, and can be used to customize your pokemon in various ways. Things that may be put into the wild slots: Moves, Abilities, Items, Typing
Wild slots 1 and 2
Moves: Any legal move within the Pokemon's learnset may be placed into these slots to grant the pokemon access to a fifth or 6th move.
Abilities: Any ability that a pokemon may obtain legally can be put in either wild slot. A pokemon may have two abilities. A pokemon may not have duplicate abilities.
Items: Any legal item may be put in either wild slot. A pokemon can use two items, but may not use duplicate items.
Typing: enter the name of a typing, e.g. "Dragon" into either the item or ability slot to change the pokemons primary or secondary typing respectively. If the pokemon is monotyped, then 1st wild slot will overwrite this typing, while the second would add a new one. This change would be reflected to the opponent when a Pokemon is sent in to active battle. This might need to be restricted to one slot.
Moves: Any legal move within the Pokemon's learnset may be placed into these slots to grant the pokemon access to a fifth or 6th move.
Abilities: Any ability that a pokemon may obtain legally can be put in either wild slot. A pokemon may have two abilities. A pokemon may not have duplicate abilities.
Items: Any legal item may be put in either wild slot. A pokemon can use two items, but may not use duplicate items.
Typing: enter the name of a typing, e.g. "Dragon" into either the item or ability slot to change the pokemons primary or secondary typing respectively. If the pokemon is monotyped, then 1st wild slot will overwrite this typing, while the second would add a new one. This change would be reflected to the opponent when a Pokemon is sent in to active battle. This might need to be restricted to one slot.
Rules and Clauses:
- OU Banlist
- Duplicate Slot Clause: You can't have the same thing in both slots
- Choice clause: No two choice items
- Unsure: Typing Clause -- you can only change typing in one slot
- Likely bans: Slaking, Regigigas, Kyub, basically the things with good stats and movepools that don't care if their abilities are lost.
- Event moves and abilities: There are no restrictions on what would otherwise be incompatible move/ability combinations. e.g Clefable may use both Unware and Softboiled.
- Ambiguous Names: Psychic and Metronome refer to multiple wild slot options. There isn't a great solution here, but I propose that in the teambuilder, "Psychic_m" would be the move, while "Psychic_t" would be the typing. The teambuilder would prompt for this input from the user at validation.
- Team preview and/or switch-in indicators: To keep the meta competitive, there needs to be some indication given to the opponent what the opposing pokemon's utilization of wild slots is. I prose that at switch-in the following is shown to the opponent:
- The pokemon's tying, similar to how this is implemented for Camomons
- The utilization of the wild slots. If a pokemon was using its wild slots to gain a move and an ability, then that would be reflected with a tag (like the inheritance donor) in that order -- "Move, Ability".
- A Buzzwole running Leftovers in Slot 1 and type: Steel in Slot 2 would look something like this:
- Mega Stones: This is mostly a question of the potential implementation, but mega stones would be restricted to the original item slot. The second wild slot would only be overwritten by the mega-evolution ability if it was being used for an ability, otherwise, the wild typing/item/move would take priority. Looking for advice here.
- Z-moves: You can have multiple Z-items on a single pokemon, but use one and then you may not use the other.
The Wall
Zekrom in OU
6-Attacks Volc. How do you stop this?
Oh, with this Water/Dragon unaware wall.
Terrifying Weather Sweeper
Zekrom in OU
6-Attacks Volc. How do you stop this?
Oh, with this Water/Dragon unaware wall.
Terrifying Weather Sweeper
At the moment, the entire meta is founded under the assumption that move=ability=item=typing as far as the value they provide. By adding an additional move or typing for a new STAB, you are making a sacrifice of an ability or item. So you can load up and solve your old 4mss, but then you'll be weaker without that ability. Just theory-monning, I can't think of things that hit harder than mega medicham, so I don't think blind OHKOs should be a problem. On the defensive front, there are some nasty unaware walls, thickfat+sapsipper users. Regenerator has magic guard+regen Reuniclus as its best user, but I don't see any broken stall mons yet. It looks like most playstyles will be possible. Slightly concerned about self-setting weather sweepers.
What benefits?
Deepmove Pools
Multiple Good Abilities
Cursed with bad typing
No Good Abilities
What benefits?
Deepmove Pools
Multiple Good Abilities
Cursed with bad typing
No Good Abilities
- Implementation is likely a big challenge. Parsing potential sets will be tough. A more elegant fix to the ambiguous names would be nice.
- I do think this could push some design paradigms that have been difficult to code in the past.
- Is this intuitive enough? If i just told random PS user, Timmy, that you get wild slots, can they figure it out without reading a thread for an hour?
- Does there need to be more info at team preview/switch-in?
- Should there be more restrictions on what goes in the wild slots? E.g. is getting 6 moves too much? Is changing both types without restriction too much (granted you lose both item and ability)
The premise itself, I think, is very simple and understandable: you put whatever you want into the wild slots. Moreover, I believe this is a type of OM that hasn't really been explored -- kind of a "legal hackmons". Mechanically, I want the experience to be as easy as possible for potential players on PS. Things that might make this difficult:
On the "metagame", balancing, and ban strategy
It was a very conscious decision to limit the moves/abilities/items to only those that are already learned/legal on a pokemon. Without that restriction, the metagame would just be about what pokemon has the best base stats. Of course, Typing is the one thing that is currently unrestricted, and I question whether that would need to be limited to only one slot -- that is, you may not change BOTH types on the same pokemon.
Similar to this generation's Inheritance, I think some form of preview to the opponent is required. Do the slot utilization and typing indicators I described in the OP accomplish this to you? Is there still too much unknown to the opponent?
Items and Abilities are mostly a question of power-level, and given that pokemon have no more than 3 abilities, I don't think there is an unacceptable level of unpredictability to allow total freedom over these characteristics...it's mostly the moves and type changing that I fear might make the meta uncompetitive.
- The search function not showing all possible inputs for a the wild slots. e.g. I want to put "Sand Rush" into the traditional item slot, but it doesn't show up in the possible options. I just have to know it exists.
- In-game, not knowing what your own pokemon have before they are sent out. The mouse-over previews might not handle this setup nicely.
On the "metagame", balancing, and ban strategy
It was a very conscious decision to limit the moves/abilities/items to only those that are already learned/legal on a pokemon. Without that restriction, the metagame would just be about what pokemon has the best base stats. Of course, Typing is the one thing that is currently unrestricted, and I question whether that would need to be limited to only one slot -- that is, you may not change BOTH types on the same pokemon.
Similar to this generation's Inheritance, I think some form of preview to the opponent is required. Do the slot utilization and typing indicators I described in the OP accomplish this to you? Is there still too much unknown to the opponent?
Items and Abilities are mostly a question of power-level, and given that pokemon have no more than 3 abilities, I don't think there is an unacceptable level of unpredictability to allow total freedom over these characteristics...it's mostly the moves and type changing that I fear might make the meta uncompetitive.
- Is 6 moves too many? Does it remove the fundamental decision making of sacrificing coverage (without losing reciprocal amount of power due to not running item and ability?) . Should we limit to 5 moves?
- Does changing typing(s) make the game too unpredictable, even if team preview indicators are in place? Should this be limited to changing one typing?
Hope you like it. All feedback welcome!
Gonna quickly say that the PNGs don't work, can you get them fixed up?Here's a doozy -- submitted as an OM last gen, but was ultimately canned. Here's to sneaking it through the new regime hehe. This is more or less the prior submission verbatim.
Title: Wild Card, also accepting other ideas.
Premise: In the teambuilder, the Item and Ability slots are considered wild, and can be used to customize your pokemon in various ways. Things that may be put into the wild slots: Moves, Abilities, Items, Typing
Wild slots 1 and 2
Moves: Any legal move within the Pokemon's learnset may be placed into these slots to grant the pokemon access to a fifth or 6th move.
Abilities: Any ability that a pokemon may obtain legally can be put in either wild slot. A pokemon may have two abilities. A pokemon may not have duplicate abilities.
Items: Any legal item may be put in either wild slot. A pokemon can use two items, but may not use duplicate items.
Typing: enter the name of a typing, e.g. "Dragon" into either the item or ability slot to change the pokemons primary or secondary typing respectively. If the pokemon is monotyped, then 1st wild slot will overwrite this typing, while the second would add a new one. This change would be reflected to the opponent when a Pokemon is sent in to active battle. This might need to be restricted to one slot.Rules and Clauses:
- OU Banlist
- Duplicate Slot Clause: You can't have the same thing in both slots
- Choice clause: No two choice items
- Unsure: Typing Clause -- you can only change typing in one slot
- Likely bans: Slaking, Regigigas, Kyub, basically the things with good stats and movepools that don't care if their abilities are lost.
- Event moves and abilities: There are no restrictions on what would otherwise be incompatible move/ability combinations. e.g Clefable may use both Unware and Softboiled.
- Ambiguous Names: Psychic and Metronome refer to multiple wild slot options. There isn't a great solution here, but I propose that in the teambuilder, "Psychic_m" would be the move, while "Psychic_t" would be the typing. The teambuilder would prompt for this input from the user at validation.
- Team preview and/or switch-in indicators: To keep the meta competitive, there needs to be some indication given to the opponent what the opposing pokemon's utilization of wild slots is. I prose that at switch-in the following is shown to the opponent:
- The pokemon's tying, similar to how this is implemented for Camomons
- The utilization of the wild slots. If a pokemon was using its wild slots to gain a move and an ability, then that would be reflected with a tag (like the inheritance donor) in that order -- "Move, Ability".
- A Buzzwole running Leftovers in Slot 1 and type: Steel in Slot 2 would look something like this:
- Mega Stones: This is mostly a question of the potential implementation, but mega stones would be restricted to the original item slot. The second wild slot would only be overwritten by the mega-evolution ability if it was being used for an ability, otherwise, the wild typing/item/move would take priority. Looking for advice here.
- Z-moves: You can have multiple Z-items on a single pokemon, but use one and then you may not use the other.
The Wall
Zekrom in OU
6-Attacks Volc. How do you stop this?
Oh, with this Water/Dragon unaware wall.
Terrifying Weather Sweeper
At the moment, the entire meta is founded under the assumption that move=ability=item=typing as far as the value they provide. By adding an additional move or typing for a new STAB, you are making a sacrifice of an ability or item. So you can load up and solve your old 4mss, but then you'll be weaker without that ability. Just theory-monning, I can't think of things that hit harder than mega medicham, so I don't think blind OHKOs should be a problem. On the defensive front, there are some nasty unaware walls, thickfat+sapsipper users. Regenerator has magic guard+regen Reuniclus as its best user, but I don't see any broken stall mons yet. It looks like most playstyles will be possible. Slightly concerned about self-setting weather sweepers.
What benefits?
Deepmove Pools
Multiple Good Abilities
Cursed with bad typing
No Good Abilities
- Implementation is likely a big challenge. Parsing potential sets will be tough. A more elegant fix to the ambiguous names would be nice.
- I do think this could push some design paradigms that have been difficult to code in the past.
- Is this intuitive enough? If i just told random PS user, Timmy, that you get wild slots, can they figure it out without reading a thread for an hour?
- Does there need to be more info at team preview/switch-in?
- Should there be more restrictions on what goes in the wild slots? E.g. is getting 6 moves too much? Is changing both types without restriction too much (granted you lose both item and ability)
The premise itself, I think, is very simple and understandable: you put whatever you want into the wild slots. Moreover, I believe this is a type of OM that hasn't really been explored -- kind of a "legal hackmons". Mechanically, I want the experience to be as easy as possible for potential players on PS. Things that might make this difficult:
Understandably, implementation would be a big challenge, and afaik, all coders are volunteers out of their own good will, so obviously (as with any OM) it hinges on whether anyone wants to build it. I can't speak further to that, since I am not very familiar with how things are actually programmed.
- The search function not showing all possible inputs for a the wild slots. e.g. I want to put "Sand Rush" into the traditional item slot, but it doesn't show up in the possible options. I just have to know it exists.
- In-game, not knowing what your own pokemon have before they are sent out. The mouse-over previews might not handle this setup nicely.
On the "metagame", balancing, and ban strategy
It was a very conscious decision to limit the moves/abilities/items to only those that are already learned/legal on a pokemon. Without that restriction, the metagame would just be about what pokemon has the best base stats. Of course, Typing is the one thing that is currently unrestricted, and I question whether that would need to be limited to only one slot -- that is, you may not change BOTH types on the same pokemon.
Similar to this generation's Inheritance, I think some form of preview to the opponent is required. Do the slot utilization and typing indicators I described in the OP accomplish this to you? Is there still too much unknown to the opponent?
Items and Abilities are mostly a question of power-level, and given that pokemon have no more than 3 abilities, I don't think there is an unacceptable level of unpredictability to allow total freedom over these characteristics...it's mostly the moves and type changing that I fear might make the meta uncompetitive.
- Is 6 moves too many? Does it remove the fundamental decision making of sacrificing coverage (without losing reciprocal amount of power due to not running item and ability?) . Should we limit to 5 moves?
- Does changing typing(s) make the game too unpredictable, even if team preview indicators are in place? Should this be limited to changing one typing?
Hope you like it. All feedback welcome!
I really like this idea,but why did you use dexited Mons as examples?Seems a bit weird.Here's a doozy -- submitted as an OM last gen, but was ultimately canned. Here's to sneaking it through the new regime hehe. This is more or less the prior submission verbatim.
Title: Wild Card, also accepting other ideas.
Premise: In the teambuilder, the Item and Ability slots are considered wild, and can be used to customize your pokemon in various ways. Things that may be put into the wild slots: Moves, Abilities, Items, Typing
Wild slots 1 and 2
Moves: Any legal move within the Pokemon's learnset may be placed into these slots to grant the pokemon access to a fifth or 6th move.
Abilities: Any ability that a pokemon may obtain legally can be put in either wild slot. A pokemon may have two abilities. A pokemon may not have duplicate abilities.
Items: Any legal item may be put in either wild slot. A pokemon can use two items, but may not use duplicate items.
Typing: enter the name of a typing, e.g. "Dragon" into either the item or ability slot to change the pokemons primary or secondary typing respectively. If the pokemon is monotyped, then 1st wild slot will overwrite this typing, while the second would add a new one. This change would be reflected to the opponent when a Pokemon is sent in to active battle. This might need to be restricted to one slot.Rules and Clauses:
- OU Banlist
- Duplicate Slot Clause: You can't have the same thing in both slots
- Choice clause: No two choice items
- Unsure: Typing Clause -- you can only change typing in one slot
- Likely bans: Slaking, Regigigas, Kyub, basically the things with good stats and movepools that don't care if their abilities are lost.
- Event moves and abilities: There are no restrictions on what would otherwise be incompatible move/ability combinations. e.g Clefable may use both Unware and Softboiled.
- Ambiguous Names: Psychic and Metronome refer to multiple wild slot options. There isn't a great solution here, but I propose that in the teambuilder, "Psychic_m" would be the move, while "Psychic_t" would be the typing. The teambuilder would prompt for this input from the user at validation.
- Team preview and/or switch-in indicators: To keep the meta competitive, there needs to be some indication given to the opponent what the opposing pokemon's utilization of wild slots is. I prose that at switch-in the following is shown to the opponent:
- The pokemon's tying, similar to how this is implemented for Camomons
- The utilization of the wild slots. If a pokemon was using its wild slots to gain a move and an ability, then that would be reflected with a tag (like the inheritance donor) in that order -- "Move, Ability".
- A Buzzwole running Leftovers in Slot 1 and type: Steel in Slot 2 would look something like this:
- Mega Stones: This is mostly a question of the potential implementation, but mega stones would be restricted to the original item slot. The second wild slot would only be overwritten by the mega-evolution ability if it was being used for an ability, otherwise, the wild typing/item/move would take priority. Looking for advice here.
- Z-moves: You can have multiple Z-items on a single pokemon, but use one and then you may not use the other.
The Wall
Zekrom in OU
6-Attacks Volc. How do you stop this?
Oh, with this Water/Dragon unaware wall.
Terrifying Weather Sweeper
At the moment, the entire meta is founded under the assumption that move=ability=item=typing as far as the value they provide. By adding an additional move or typing for a new STAB, you are making a sacrifice of an ability or item. So you can load up and solve your old 4mss, but then you'll be weaker without that ability. Just theory-monning, I can't think of things that hit harder than mega medicham, so I don't think blind OHKOs should be a problem. On the defensive front, there are some nasty unaware walls, thickfat+sapsipper users. Regenerator has magic guard+regen Reuniclus as its best user, but I don't see any broken stall mons yet. It looks like most playstyles will be possible. Slightly concerned about self-setting weather sweepers.
What benefits?
Deepmove Pools
Multiple Good Abilities
Cursed with bad typing
No Good Abilities
- Implementation is likely a big challenge. Parsing potential sets will be tough. A more elegant fix to the ambiguous names would be nice.
- I do think this could push some design paradigms that have been difficult to code in the past.
- Is this intuitive enough? If i just told random PS user, Timmy, that you get wild slots, can they figure it out without reading a thread for an hour?
- Does there need to be more info at team preview/switch-in?
- Should there be more restrictions on what goes in the wild slots? E.g. is getting 6 moves too much? Is changing both types without restriction too much (granted you lose both item and ability)
The premise itself, I think, is very simple and understandable: you put whatever you want into the wild slots. Moreover, I believe this is a type of OM that hasn't really been explored -- kind of a "legal hackmons". Mechanically, I want the experience to be as easy as possible for potential players on PS. Things that might make this difficult:
Understandably, implementation would be a big challenge, and afaik, all coders are volunteers out of their own good will, so obviously (as with any OM) it hinges on whether anyone wants to build it. I can't speak further to that, since I am not very familiar with how things are actually programmed.
- The search function not showing all possible inputs for a the wild slots. e.g. I want to put "Sand Rush" into the traditional item slot, but it doesn't show up in the possible options. I just have to know it exists.
- In-game, not knowing what your own pokemon have before they are sent out. The mouse-over previews might not handle this setup nicely.
On the "metagame", balancing, and ban strategy
It was a very conscious decision to limit the moves/abilities/items to only those that are already learned/legal on a pokemon. Without that restriction, the metagame would just be about what pokemon has the best base stats. Of course, Typing is the one thing that is currently unrestricted, and I question whether that would need to be limited to only one slot -- that is, you may not change BOTH types on the same pokemon.
Similar to this generation's Inheritance, I think some form of preview to the opponent is required. Do the slot utilization and typing indicators I described in the OP accomplish this to you? Is there still too much unknown to the opponent?
Items and Abilities are mostly a question of power-level, and given that pokemon have no more than 3 abilities, I don't think there is an unacceptable level of unpredictability to allow total freedom over these characteristics...it's mostly the moves and type changing that I fear might make the meta uncompetitive.
- Is 6 moves too many? Does it remove the fundamental decision making of sacrificing coverage (without losing reciprocal amount of power due to not running item and ability?) . Should we limit to 5 moves?
- Does changing typing(s) make the game too unpredictable, even if team preview indicators are in place? Should this be limited to changing one typing?
Hope you like it. All feedback welcome!
Anyways,sets:
Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: roost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Flamethrower
- Psychic
- Giga Drain
QD+3 Attacks Volc with Roost for extra longetivity.
Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: spelltag
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
Shadow Ball hits even harder now.Yay.
Excadrill @ sandforce
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
Sand abuser go brrrrrr.
Weavile @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: lifeorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Triple Axel
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard
Block hazards and hit hard with Weav.Fun.
Last edited:
Like I said, pulled verbatim from the old submission :p. I will try to update along with the images.
Had a funky type chart concept in mind.
The Alphabetic Type Chart
Metagame premise: Pokemon are given new typings based off of their original typings, with an alphabetic type chart. The original type chart is based off of the Bulbapedia type list. (left-right, up-down)
Potential bans and threats:
Normal-type Pokemon get access to Bug-type STAB, and that is especially useful with U-Turn since it can deal some good damage with STAB.
Diggersby is especially worth mentioning here, since it gains the new typing of Bug/Fairy, however it doesn't gain any Fairy moves to play around with. It can still be a threat with Huge Power.
Speaking of Huge Power, here comes Azumarill which gains the Ground/Water typing, a type that is usually weak to only Grass, but with Sap Sipper, it becomes a huge threat especially since it keeps its Water STAB and gains Ground STAB. It's unfortunate, however, as Azumarill really wants to use Huge Power.
Dark-type Pokemon get the Steel typing, which becomes a major threat for Pokemon that lost the Fire STAB and a ton more, which is a huge problem in this meta.
Questions for the community:
This meta will definitely have the OU ban list.
- Notable Dark types are definitely going to get banned, but are there any other ban-worthy Pokemon out there?
- Any other threats that you can find that are notable but aren't ban-worthy?
- Should I change how the original type chart is?
The Alphabetic Type Chart
Metagame premise: Pokemon are given new typings based off of their original typings, with an alphabetic type chart. The original type chart is based off of the Bulbapedia type list. (left-right, up-down)
Normal -> Bug
Fighting -> Dark
Flying -> Dragon
Poison -> Electric
Ground -> Fairy
Rock -> Fighting
Bug -> Fire
Ghost -> Flying
Steel -> Ghost
Fire -> Grass
Water -> Ground
Grass -> Ice
Electric -> Normal
Psychic -> Poison
Ice -> Psychic
Dragon -> Rock
Dark -> Steel
Fairy -> Water
Fighting -> Dark
Flying -> Dragon
Poison -> Electric
Ground -> Fairy
Rock -> Fighting
Bug -> Fire
Ghost -> Flying
Steel -> Ghost
Fire -> Grass
Water -> Ground
Grass -> Ice
Electric -> Normal
Psychic -> Poison
Ice -> Psychic
Dragon -> Rock
Dark -> Steel
Fairy -> Water
Normal-type Pokemon get access to Bug-type STAB, and that is especially useful with U-Turn since it can deal some good damage with STAB.
Diggersby is especially worth mentioning here, since it gains the new typing of Bug/Fairy, however it doesn't gain any Fairy moves to play around with. It can still be a threat with Huge Power.
Speaking of Huge Power, here comes Azumarill which gains the Ground/Water typing, a type that is usually weak to only Grass, but with Sap Sipper, it becomes a huge threat especially since it keeps its Water STAB and gains Ground STAB. It's unfortunate, however, as Azumarill really wants to use Huge Power.
Dark-type Pokemon get the Steel typing, which becomes a major threat for Pokemon that lost the Fire STAB and a ton more, which is a huge problem in this meta.
Questions for the community:
This meta will definitely have the OU ban list.
- Notable Dark types are definitely going to get banned, but are there any other ban-worthy Pokemon out there?
- Any other threats that you can find that are notable but aren't ban-worthy?
- Should I change how the original type chart is?
I do not think Guzzlord would be ban-worthy as, while it can snowball through Beast Boost, it also have two double weaknesses to Fighting and Ground and is also very slow. It have to be careful of what it switch into.Had a funky type chart concept in mind.
The Alphabetic Type Chart
Metagame premise: Pokemon are given new typings based off of their original typings, with an alphabetic type chart. The original type chart is based off of the Bulbapedia type list. (left-right, up-down)
Potential bans and threats:Normal -> Bug
Fighting -> Dark
Flying -> Dragon
Poison -> Electric
Ground -> Fairy
Rock -> Fighting
Bug -> Fire
Ghost -> Flying
Steel -> Ghost
Fire -> Grass
Water -> Ground
Grass -> Ice
Electric -> Normal
Psychic -> Poison
Ice -> Psychic
Dragon -> Rock
Dark -> Steel
Fairy -> Water
Normal-type Pokemon get access to Bug-type STAB, and that is especially useful with U-Turn since it can deal some good damage with STAB.
Diggersby is especially worth mentioning here, since it gains the new typing of Bug/Fairy, however it doesn't gain any Fairy moves to play around with. It can still be a threat with Huge Power.
Speaking of Huge Power, here comes Azumarill which gains the Ground/Water typing, a type that is usually weak to only Grass, but with Sap Sipper, it becomes a huge threat especially since it keeps its Water STAB and gains Ground STAB. It's unfortunate, however, as Azumarill really wants to use Huge Power.
Dark-type Pokemon get the Steel typing, which becomes a major threat for Pokemon that lost the Fire STAB and a ton more, which is a huge problem in this meta.
Questions for the community:
This meta will definitely have the OU ban list.
- Notable Dark types are definitely going to get banned, but are there any other ban-worthy Pokemon out there?
- Any other threats that you can find that are notable but aren't ban-worthy?
- Should I change how the original type chart is?
Hydreigon, the other Steel / Rock, is faster and have immediately stronger Special Attack, so that, alongside other notable Dark-type, may need to be in check.
I’m not sure if this breaks the rule against forcing players to use Import/Export. And this should be standard OU, where Mega Stones don’t exist. It sounds pretty cool concept.Here's a doozy -- submitted as an OM last gen, but was ultimately canned. Here's to sneaking it through the new regime hehe. This is more or less the prior submission verbatim.
Title: Wild Card, also accepting other ideas.
Premise: In the teambuilder, the Item and Ability slots are considered wild, and can be used to customize your pokemon in various ways. Things that may be put into the wild slots: Moves, Abilities, Items, Typing
Wild slots 1 and 2
Moves: Any legal move within the Pokemon's learnset may be placed into these slots to grant the pokemon access to a fifth or 6th move.
Abilities: Any ability that a pokemon may obtain legally can be put in either wild slot. A pokemon may have two abilities. A pokemon may not have duplicate abilities.
Items: Any legal item may be put in either wild slot. A pokemon can use two items, but may not use duplicate items.
Typing: enter the name of a typing, e.g. "Dragon" into either the item or ability slot to change the pokemons primary or secondary typing respectively. If the pokemon is monotyped, then 1st wild slot will overwrite this typing, while the second would add a new one. This change would be reflected to the opponent when a Pokemon is sent in to active battle. This might need to be restricted to one slot.Rules and Clauses:
- OU Banlist
- Duplicate Slot Clause: You can't have the same thing in both slots
- Choice clause: No two choice items
- Unsure: Typing Clause -- you can only change typing in one slot
- Likely bans: Slaking, Regigigas, Kyub, basically the things with good stats and movepools that don't care if their abilities are lost.
- Event moves and abilities: There are no restrictions on what would otherwise be incompatible move/ability combinations. e.g Clefable may use both Unware and Softboiled.
- Ambiguous Names: Psychic and Metronome refer to multiple wild slot options. There isn't a great solution here, but I propose that in the teambuilder, "Psychic_m" would be the move, while "Psychic_t" would be the typing. The teambuilder would prompt for this input from the user at validation.
- Team preview and/or switch-in indicators: To keep the meta competitive, there needs to be some indication given to the opponent what the opposing pokemon's utilization of wild slots is. I prose that at switch-in the following is shown to the opponent:
- The pokemon's tying, similar to how this is implemented for Camomons
- The utilization of the wild slots. If a pokemon was using its wild slots to gain a move and an ability, then that would be reflected with a tag (like the inheritance donor) in that order -- "Move, Ability".
- A Buzzwole running Leftovers in Slot 1 and type: Steel in Slot 2 would look something like this:
- Mega Stones: This is mostly a question of the potential implementation, but mega stones would be restricted to the original item slot. The second wild slot would only be overwritten by the mega-evolution ability if it was being used for an ability, otherwise, the wild typing/item/move would take priority. Looking for advice here.
- Z-moves: You can have multiple Z-items on a single pokemon, but use one and then you may not use the other.
The Wall
Zekrom in OU
6-Attacks Volc. How do you stop this?
Oh, with this Water/Dragon unaware wall.
Terrifying Weather Sweeper
At the moment, the entire meta is founded under the assumption that move=ability=item=typing as far as the value they provide. By adding an additional move or typing for a new STAB, you are making a sacrifice of an ability or item. So you can load up and solve your old 4mss, but then you'll be weaker without that ability. Just theory-monning, I can't think of things that hit harder than mega medicham, so I don't think blind OHKOs should be a problem. On the defensive front, there are some nasty unaware walls, thickfat+sapsipper users. Regenerator has magic guard+regen Reuniclus as its best user, but I don't see any broken stall mons yet. It looks like most playstyles will be possible. Slightly concerned about self-setting weather sweepers.
What benefits?
Deepmove Pools
Multiple Good Abilities
Cursed with bad typing
No Good Abilities
- Implementation is likely a big challenge. Parsing potential sets will be tough. A more elegant fix to the ambiguous names would be nice.
- I do think this could push some design paradigms that have been difficult to code in the past.
- Is this intuitive enough? If i just told random PS user, Timmy, that you get wild slots, can they figure it out without reading a thread for an hour?
- Does there need to be more info at team preview/switch-in?
- Should there be more restrictions on what goes in the wild slots? E.g. is getting 6 moves too much? Is changing both types without restriction too much (granted you lose both item and ability)
The premise itself, I think, is very simple and understandable: you put whatever you want into the wild slots. Moreover, I believe this is a type of OM that hasn't really been explored -- kind of a "legal hackmons". Mechanically, I want the experience to be as easy as possible for potential players on PS. Things that might make this difficult:
Understandably, implementation would be a big challenge, and afaik, all coders are volunteers out of their own good will, so obviously (as with any OM) it hinges on whether anyone wants to build it. I can't speak further to that, since I am not very familiar with how things are actually programmed.
- The search function not showing all possible inputs for a the wild slots. e.g. I want to put "Sand Rush" into the traditional item slot, but it doesn't show up in the possible options. I just have to know it exists.
- In-game, not knowing what your own pokemon have before they are sent out. The mouse-over previews might not handle this setup nicely.
On the "metagame", balancing, and ban strategy
It was a very conscious decision to limit the moves/abilities/items to only those that are already learned/legal on a pokemon. Without that restriction, the metagame would just be about what pokemon has the best base stats. Of course, Typing is the one thing that is currently unrestricted, and I question whether that would need to be limited to only one slot -- that is, you may not change BOTH types on the same pokemon.
Similar to this generation's Inheritance, I think some form of preview to the opponent is required. Do the slot utilization and typing indicators I described in the OP accomplish this to you? Is there still too much unknown to the opponent?
Items and Abilities are mostly a question of power-level, and given that pokemon have no more than 3 abilities, I don't think there is an unacceptable level of unpredictability to allow total freedom over these characteristics...it's mostly the moves and type changing that I fear might make the meta uncompetitive.
- Is 6 moves too many? Does it remove the fundamental decision making of sacrificing coverage (without losing reciprocal amount of power due to not running item and ability?) . Should we limit to 5 moves?
- Does changing typing(s) make the game too unpredictable, even if team preview indicators are in place? Should this be limited to changing one typing?
Hope you like it. All feedback welcome!
Something else I should bring up is the compatability rule. As an example, if Clefable’s Ability slot has Unaware, it shouldn’t be allowed to use Softboiled since you can’t get them in the same set normally. If Clefable has Unaware in the item slot, it should then be able to learn Softboiled then. It would be pretty inconsistent otherwise.
How would Trick,Knock Off,Skill Swap,Etc work?For example if I have this Volc set:Here's a doozy -- submitted as an OM last gen, but was ultimately canned. Here's to sneaking it through the new regime hehe. This is more or less the prior submission verbatim.
Title: Wild Card, also accepting other ideas.
Premise: In the teambuilder, the Item and Ability slots are considered wild, and can be used to customize your pokemon in various ways. Things that may be put into the wild slots: Moves, Abilities, Items, Typing
Wild slots 1 and 2
Moves: Any legal move within the Pokemon's learnset may be placed into these slots to grant the pokemon access to a fifth or 6th move.
Abilities: Any ability that a pokemon may obtain legally can be put in either wild slot. A pokemon may have two abilities. A pokemon may not have duplicate abilities.
Items: Any legal item may be put in either wild slot. A pokemon can use two items, but may not use duplicate items.
Typing: enter the name of a typing, e.g. "Dragon" into either the item or ability slot to change the pokemons primary or secondary typing respectively. If the pokemon is monotyped, then 1st wild slot will overwrite this typing, while the second would add a new one. This change would be reflected to the opponent when a Pokemon is sent in to active battle. This might need to be restricted to one slot.Rules and Clauses:
- OU Banlist
- Duplicate Slot Clause: You can't have the same thing in both slots
- Choice clause: No two choice items
- Unsure: Typing Clause -- you can only change typing in one slot
- Likely bans: Slaking, Regigigas, Kyub, basically the things with good stats and movepools that don't care if their abilities are lost.
- Event moves and abilities: There are no restrictions on what would otherwise be incompatible move/ability combinations. e.g Clefable may use both Unware and Softboiled.
- Ambiguous Names: Psychic and Metronome refer to multiple wild slot options. There isn't a great solution here, but I propose that in the teambuilder, "Psychic_m" would be the move, while "Psychic_t" would be the typing. The teambuilder would prompt for this input from the user at validation.
- Team preview and/or switch-in indicators: To keep the meta competitive, there needs to be some indication given to the opponent what the opposing pokemon's utilization of wild slots is. I prose that at switch-in the following is shown to the opponent:
- The pokemon's tying, similar to how this is implemented for Camomons
- The utilization of the wild slots. If a pokemon was using its wild slots to gain a move and an ability, then that would be reflected with a tag (like the inheritance donor) in that order -- "Move, Ability".
- A Buzzwole running Leftovers in Slot 1 and type: Steel in Slot 2 would look something like this:
- Mega Stones: This is mostly a question of the potential implementation, but mega stones would be restricted to the original item slot. The second wild slot would only be overwritten by the mega-evolution ability if it was being used for an ability, otherwise, the wild typing/item/move would take priority. Looking for advice here.
- Z-moves: You can have multiple Z-items on a single pokemon, but use one and then you may not use the other.
The Wall
Zekrom in OU
6-Attacks Volc. How do you stop this?
Oh, with this Water/Dragon unaware wall.
Terrifying Weather Sweeper
At the moment, the entire meta is founded under the assumption that move=ability=item=typing as far as the value they provide. By adding an additional move or typing for a new STAB, you are making a sacrifice of an ability or item. So you can load up and solve your old 4mss, but then you'll be weaker without that ability. Just theory-monning, I can't think of things that hit harder than mega medicham, so I don't think blind OHKOs should be a problem. On the defensive front, there are some nasty unaware walls, thickfat+sapsipper users. Regenerator has magic guard+regen Reuniclus as its best user, but I don't see any broken stall mons yet. It looks like most playstyles will be possible. Slightly concerned about self-setting weather sweepers.
What benefits?
Deepmove Pools
Multiple Good Abilities
Cursed with bad typing
No Good Abilities
- Implementation is likely a big challenge. Parsing potential sets will be tough. A more elegant fix to the ambiguous names would be nice.
- I do think this could push some design paradigms that have been difficult to code in the past.
- Is this intuitive enough? If i just told random PS user, Timmy, that you get wild slots, can they figure it out without reading a thread for an hour?
- Does there need to be more info at team preview/switch-in?
- Should there be more restrictions on what goes in the wild slots? E.g. is getting 6 moves too much? Is changing both types without restriction too much (granted you lose both item and ability)
The premise itself, I think, is very simple and understandable: you put whatever you want into the wild slots. Moreover, I believe this is a type of OM that hasn't really been explored -- kind of a "legal hackmons". Mechanically, I want the experience to be as easy as possible for potential players on PS. Things that might make this difficult:
Understandably, implementation would be a big challenge, and afaik, all coders are volunteers out of their own good will, so obviously (as with any OM) it hinges on whether anyone wants to build it. I can't speak further to that, since I am not very familiar with how things are actually programmed.
- The search function not showing all possible inputs for a the wild slots. e.g. I want to put "Sand Rush" into the traditional item slot, but it doesn't show up in the possible options. I just have to know it exists.
- In-game, not knowing what your own pokemon have before they are sent out. The mouse-over previews might not handle this setup nicely.
On the "metagame", balancing, and ban strategy
It was a very conscious decision to limit the moves/abilities/items to only those that are already learned/legal on a pokemon. Without that restriction, the metagame would just be about what pokemon has the best base stats. Of course, Typing is the one thing that is currently unrestricted, and I question whether that would need to be limited to only one slot -- that is, you may not change BOTH types on the same pokemon.
Similar to this generation's Inheritance, I think some form of preview to the opponent is required. Do the slot utilization and typing indicators I described in the OP accomplish this to you? Is there still too much unknown to the opponent?
Items and Abilities are mostly a question of power-level, and given that pokemon have no more than 3 abilities, I don't think there is an unacceptable level of unpredictability to allow total freedom over these characteristics...it's mostly the moves and type changing that I fear might make the meta uncompetitive.
- Is 6 moves too many? Does it remove the fundamental decision making of sacrificing coverage (without losing reciprocal amount of power due to not running item and ability?) . Should we limit to 5 moves?
- Does changing typing(s) make the game too unpredictable, even if team preview indicators are in place? Should this be limited to changing one typing?
Hope you like it. All feedback welcome!
Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: roost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Flamethrower
- Psychic
-Giga Drain
And I get Skill Swapped,do I lose the ability to use Roost?And do they get Roost as an extra moveslot now?What happens if I tried to use Roost that turn and they tricked me Final Gambit?Does the Roost fail,or does my Volc use Final Gambit?
I love that idea and I would love to play it.Here's a doozy -- submitted as an OM last gen, but was ultimately canned. Here's to sneaking it through the new regime hehe. This is more or less the prior submission verbatim.
Title: Wild Card, also accepting other ideas.
Premise: In the teambuilder, the Item and Ability slots are considered wild, and can be used to customize your pokemon in various ways. Things that may be put into the wild slots: Moves, Abilities, Items, Typing
Wild slots 1 and 2
Moves: Any legal move within the Pokemon's learnset may be placed into these slots to grant the pokemon access to a fifth or 6th move.
Abilities: Any ability that a pokemon may obtain legally can be put in either wild slot. A pokemon may have two abilities. A pokemon may not have duplicate abilities.
Items: Any legal item may be put in either wild slot. A pokemon can use two items, but may not use duplicate items.
Typing: enter the name of a typing, e.g. "Dragon" into either the item or ability slot to change the pokemons primary or secondary typing respectively. If the pokemon is monotyped, then 1st wild slot will overwrite this typing, while the second would add a new one. This change would be reflected to the opponent when a Pokemon is sent in to active battle. This might need to be restricted to one slot.Rules and Clauses:
- OU Banlist
- Duplicate Slot Clause: You can't have the same thing in both slots
- Choice clause: No two choice items
- Unsure: Typing Clause -- you can only change typing in one slot
- Likely bans: Slaking, Regigigas, Kyub, basically the things with good stats and movepools that don't care if their abilities are lost.
- Event moves and abilities: There are no restrictions on what would otherwise be incompatible move/ability combinations. e.g Clefable may use both Unware and Softboiled.
- Ambiguous Names: Psychic and Metronome refer to multiple wild slot options. There isn't a great solution here, but I propose that in the teambuilder, "Psychic_m" would be the move, while "Psychic_t" would be the typing. The teambuilder would prompt for this input from the user at validation.
- Team preview and/or switch-in indicators: To keep the meta competitive, there needs to be some indication given to the opponent what the opposing pokemon's utilization of wild slots is. I prose that at switch-in the following is shown to the opponent:
- The pokemon's tying, similar to how this is implemented for Camomons
- The utilization of the wild slots. If a pokemon was using its wild slots to gain a move and an ability, then that would be reflected with a tag (like the inheritance donor) in that order -- "Move, Ability".
- A Buzzwole running Leftovers in Slot 1 and type: Steel in Slot 2 would look something like this:
- Mega Stones: This is mostly a question of the potential implementation, but mega stones would be restricted to the original item slot. The second wild slot would only be overwritten by the mega-evolution ability if it was being used for an ability, otherwise, the wild typing/item/move would take priority. Looking for advice here.
- Z-moves: You can have multiple Z-items on a single pokemon, but use one and then you may not use the other.
The Wall
Zekrom in OU
6-Attacks Volc. How do you stop this?
Oh, with this Water/Dragon unaware wall.
Terrifying Weather Sweeper
At the moment, the entire meta is founded under the assumption that move=ability=item=typing as far as the value they provide. By adding an additional move or typing for a new STAB, you are making a sacrifice of an ability or item. So you can load up and solve your old 4mss, but then you'll be weaker without that ability. Just theory-monning, I can't think of things that hit harder than mega medicham, so I don't think blind OHKOs should be a problem. On the defensive front, there are some nasty unaware walls, thickfat+sapsipper users. Regenerator has magic guard+regen Reuniclus as its best user, but I don't see any broken stall mons yet. It looks like most playstyles will be possible. Slightly concerned about self-setting weather sweepers.
What benefits?
Deepmove Pools
Multiple Good Abilities
Cursed with bad typing
No Good Abilities
- Implementation is likely a big challenge. Parsing potential sets will be tough. A more elegant fix to the ambiguous names would be nice.
- I do think this could push some design paradigms that have been difficult to code in the past.
- Is this intuitive enough? If i just told random PS user, Timmy, that you get wild slots, can they figure it out without reading a thread for an hour?
- Does there need to be more info at team preview/switch-in?
- Should there be more restrictions on what goes in the wild slots? E.g. is getting 6 moves too much? Is changing both types without restriction too much (granted you lose both item and ability)
The premise itself, I think, is very simple and understandable: you put whatever you want into the wild slots. Moreover, I believe this is a type of OM that hasn't really been explored -- kind of a "legal hackmons". Mechanically, I want the experience to be as easy as possible for potential players on PS. Things that might make this difficult:
Understandably, implementation would be a big challenge, and afaik, all coders are volunteers out of their own good will, so obviously (as with any OM) it hinges on whether anyone wants to build it. I can't speak further to that, since I am not very familiar with how things are actually programmed.
- The search function not showing all possible inputs for a the wild slots. e.g. I want to put "Sand Rush" into the traditional item slot, but it doesn't show up in the possible options. I just have to know it exists.
- In-game, not knowing what your own pokemon have before they are sent out. The mouse-over previews might not handle this setup nicely.
On the "metagame", balancing, and ban strategy
It was a very conscious decision to limit the moves/abilities/items to only those that are already learned/legal on a pokemon. Without that restriction, the metagame would just be about what pokemon has the best base stats. Of course, Typing is the one thing that is currently unrestricted, and I question whether that would need to be limited to only one slot -- that is, you may not change BOTH types on the same pokemon.
Similar to this generation's Inheritance, I think some form of preview to the opponent is required. Do the slot utilization and typing indicators I described in the OP accomplish this to you? Is there still too much unknown to the opponent?
Items and Abilities are mostly a question of power-level, and given that pokemon have no more than 3 abilities, I don't think there is an unacceptable level of unpredictability to allow total freedom over these characteristics...it's mostly the moves and type changing that I fear might make the meta uncompetitive.
- Is 6 moves too many? Does it remove the fundamental decision making of sacrificing coverage (without losing reciprocal amount of power due to not running item and ability?) . Should we limit to 5 moves?
- Does changing typing(s) make the game too unpredictable, even if team preview indicators are in place? Should this be limited to changing one typing?
Hope you like it. All feedback welcome!
Reuniclus @ Regenerator
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
- Psychic
- Energy Ball
That Reuniculus look kinda hard to kill since he can regenerate AND his immune to srocks,toxic ect.
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: leftover
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
Looks fun.
Porygon-Z @ Adaptability
Ability: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Pain Split
- Tri Attack
Shadow ball And Tri Attack adaptability look op since only Bisharp and Tyranitar resist his 2 stab so that make him hurt neutral on practically everything.TBolt give him the possibilty to pass things like Skarmory.
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Heavy-duty boots
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Stealth Rock
- Aromatherapy
Bruh.BRUH!That is just going to be play everywhere
I've had a really cool idea for a metagame that I feel is going to be hell to code but wanted to share anyway:
Timed Hax
Have you ever clicked scald with your pex 8 turns in a row without getting the one burn you need to win? Ever cried in pain after losing to a specs Keldeo hitting Hydro Pump 6 times in a row? Have you ever wanted to remove the only excuse you have for not being a good player after spending hundreds of hours of your life in this godforsaken game? Introducing Timed Hax.
Metagame premise:
All forms of hax (crits, misses, secondary effects in moves, full paras) will not occur randomly but instead will be put on a timer. Once it reaches the end of the timer, the form of hax will occur. If a move's hax chance does not neatly add up to 100 it will be rounded up or down to the nearest number that does.
Examples:
Scald has a 30% chance to burn so it will be rounded to 33.33% and it will burn every 3rd time it is used.
Focus blast has a 30% chance to miss so it will be rounded to 33.33% and it will miss every 3rd time it is used.
Paralysed mons have a 25% chance to be fully paralysed, so every 4th turn they will not be able to move.
***Critical hits will run on a global timer and will affect all attacking moves (except for ones that can't crit or always crit), if a move has a high critical hit chance or if the user has boosted their critical hit chance the equivalent amount of uses will be added to the timer based on the crit chance(table with chances)
Clauses: OU clauses
Bans: OU banlist
Unbans: None
Strategy:
These timers will introduce a huge layer of mind games around when you will use them that couldn't have existed before. You can set up a form of hax like a scald burn and then keep it saved up to you can guarantee a burn on the offensive threat you want. I can see effects sponges being used a lot more as conditions like freeze become much scarier when you can pick what gets frozen. Multi hit moves could be used to quickly set up the crit timer so that it can be abused by a better move. Switching on defensive pokemon can become much easier as you don't have to worry about your physical threats getting randomly burned by scald. Abilities like static also become both less scary and more reliable. I think this will benefit offensive strategies more than defensive ones as even without making progress you will be able to set up your crits and secondary effects timers and use them as a pseudo Z move. And of course the best-selling factor is that you will no longer have random chance to blame for losing your games.
Not fully though out things.
Would love to hear some thoughts on this idea as I think about it every time I get haxed, and if by any chance everyone likes it then
good luck coders
Timed Hax
Have you ever clicked scald with your pex 8 turns in a row without getting the one burn you need to win? Ever cried in pain after losing to a specs Keldeo hitting Hydro Pump 6 times in a row? Have you ever wanted to remove the only excuse you have for not being a good player after spending hundreds of hours of your life in this godforsaken game? Introducing Timed Hax.
Metagame premise:
All forms of hax (crits, misses, secondary effects in moves, full paras) will not occur randomly but instead will be put on a timer. Once it reaches the end of the timer, the form of hax will occur. If a move's hax chance does not neatly add up to 100 it will be rounded up or down to the nearest number that does.
Examples:
Scald has a 30% chance to burn so it will be rounded to 33.33% and it will burn every 3rd time it is used.
Focus blast has a 30% chance to miss so it will be rounded to 33.33% and it will miss every 3rd time it is used.
Paralysed mons have a 25% chance to be fully paralysed, so every 4th turn they will not be able to move.
***Critical hits will run on a global timer and will affect all attacking moves (except for ones that can't crit or always crit), if a move has a high critical hit chance or if the user has boosted their critical hit chance the equivalent amount of uses will be added to the timer based on the crit chance(table with chances)
Clauses: OU clauses
Bans: OU banlist
Unbans: None
Strategy:
These timers will introduce a huge layer of mind games around when you will use them that couldn't have existed before. You can set up a form of hax like a scald burn and then keep it saved up to you can guarantee a burn on the offensive threat you want. I can see effects sponges being used a lot more as conditions like freeze become much scarier when you can pick what gets frozen. Multi hit moves could be used to quickly set up the crit timer so that it can be abused by a better move. Switching on defensive pokemon can become much easier as you don't have to worry about your physical threats getting randomly burned by scald. Abilities like static also become both less scary and more reliable. I think this will benefit offensive strategies more than defensive ones as even without making progress you will be able to set up your crits and secondary effects timers and use them as a pseudo Z move. And of course the best-selling factor is that you will no longer have random chance to blame for losing your games.
Not fully though out things.
- More global timers. Instead of having every move have its own timer, they are grouped into global timers based on the chance for their hax. One timer for all 33% hax moves (focus blast, scald, discharge, etc.) and so on. This would also make it easier to somehow display all the timers, as I see them becoming very confusing to keep track of otherwise.
- What happens when hax is supposed to happen but can't (scald burn on a fire type), does the timer reset or does it stay charged up. Leaning towards the former as it adds a form of outplaying which seems nice.
- Hax boosting abilities (Serene grace, Victory Star, etc.). Technically the same solution for high crit chance moves could apply, but not sure if the math becomes too messy, the timers could technically overflow this way as well. Easy solution is to just ban them.
- Timer overflow on crits when using high crit chance moves, not sure if it should overflow or reset to 0 once used.
Would love to hear some thoughts on this idea as I think about it every time I get haxed, and if by any chance everyone likes it then
good luck coders
Instead of rounding things to an arbitrarily low denominator, I think a better way to handle stuff like Scald is just to have the extra percent roll over into the next cycle. Like,
0 -> 30 -> 60 -> 90 -> 120
120 is greater than 100, so it burns after four uses
20 -> 50 -> 70 -> 100
and then burns again after three more uses.
0 -> 30 -> 60 -> 90 -> 120
120 is greater than 100, so it burns after four uses
20 -> 50 -> 70 -> 100
and then burns again after three more uses.
Wouldn’t it be 20 -> 50 -> 80 -> 110 and then 10 -> 40 -> 70 -> 100 as opposed to 20 -> 50 -> 70 -> 100?
That could work as well, the idea is already very complicated and is asking a lot out of the player in terms of attention so I thought simplifying it to numbers that add up neatly would be better. But your way does remove the need to arbitrarily buff or nerf moves
Yes, I can't count apparently
Camo Moves
Formerly Reliablemons (if the name is too confusing with Camo Mons, very open to other suggestions)
Metagame premise: The typing of the move in the first move slot is changed to the mon's primary type. For dual typed mons, the typing of the move in the second move slot is changed to the mon's secondary type.Formerly Reliablemons (if the name is too confusing with Camo Mons, very open to other suggestions)
Potential bans and threats: I would envision this as an OU-based metagame with standard OU clauses. There are several threats to consider:
Mons missing one (or both) reliable STABs: Several OU staples like Lando-T, Tapu Bulu and Koko, and Dragonite are unable to reliably use one of their STAB typings. They should become much more threatening, and worth keeping an eye on.
Priority in general, Extreme Speed in particular: All E-Speed mons now have access to STAB on it. This is the element I think would most likely be suspectable/bannable.
U-Turn/Volt Switch: U-Turn is an amazing move with wide distribution, but awful typing. Now it can be any typing, and will come with STAB. Volt Switch can also be run as another type to prevent Ground types from absorbing it.
Thunder Wave/Rapid Spin/etc: Common support moves like Thunder Wave and Rapid Spin have common immunities; now you have the option of removing those. Note, apparently Normalize Toxic still does not poison Steel/Poison mons, so I am assuming other type Toxic will still not work on them.
Moves with good secondary effects: Body Slam has a wonderful 30% para chance, but it's coverage is poor. Some mons, even with good STABs, may look to replace it with Body Slam for the status effect.
Questions for the community: I do think there are some important questions that need to be answered.
Will the metagame be too offensive? Offensive mons stand to gain a lot in this meta, while defensive mons really don't get much from changing the typing of their moves. Is there a way to balance this, or do we just need to accept that it will be an offensive meta?
Is there too much hidden information? All metas have some degree of hidden information, but usually once you have scouted the moveset, you know exactly what you're dealing with. That is not the case here; if the opposing Lando-T hits your Swampert with U-Turn, you do not know if it's running Ground or Flying U-Turn (or even Bug if you're too lazy to calc). You could even see situations like Tapu Koko switching the typing of Thunderbolt and Dazzling Gleam on its Choice sets to confuse switchins. Do we want to allow this, or should we look into a way to reveal typings when moves are used?
Is Extreme Speed/Dragonite/Lando-T/anything else quick-bannable? They all stand to gain a lot, but I would ideally like to keep the banlist lean to start unless anything is obviously broken.
Are there any unbans to consider? My first instinct is no, as obviously nothing gets worse in this meta. However, Cinderace, Urshifu, and Spectrier don't gain very much in this mechanic and may be worth considering.
Discordual cause he's been talking with me about this, please add on anything I missed. I would love feedback or suggestions for improvements!
Apparently there's some more cool stuff so let's check it out.Had a funky type chart concept in mind.
The Alphabetic Type Chart
Metagame premise: Pokemon are given new typings based off of their original typings, with an alphabetic type chart. The original type chart is based off of the Bulbapedia type list. (left-right, up-down)
Potential bans and threats:Normal -> Bug
Fighting -> Dark
Flying -> Dragon
Poison -> Electric
Ground -> Fairy
Rock -> Fighting
Bug -> Fire
Ghost -> Flying
Steel -> Ghost
Fire -> Grass
Water -> Ground
Grass -> Ice
Electric -> Normal
Psychic -> Poison
Ice -> Psychic
Dragon -> Rock
Dark -> Steel
Fairy -> Water
Normal-type Pokemon get access to Bug-type STAB, and that is especially useful with U-Turn since it can deal some good damage with STAB.
Diggersby is especially worth mentioning here, since it gains the new typing of Bug/Fairy, however it doesn't gain any Fairy moves to play around with. It can still be a threat with Huge Power.
Speaking of Huge Power, here comes Azumarill which gains the Ground/Water typing, a type that is usually weak to only Grass, but with Sap Sipper, it becomes a huge threat especially since it keeps its Water STAB and gains Ground STAB. It's unfortunate, however, as Azumarill really wants to use Huge Power.
Dark-type Pokemon get the Steel typing, which becomes a major threat for Pokemon that lost the Fire STAB and a ton more, which is a huge problem in this meta.
Questions for the community:
This meta will definitely have the OU ban list.
- Notable Dark types are definitely going to get banned, but are there any other ban-worthy Pokemon out there?
- Any other threats that you can find that are notable but aren't ban-worthy?
- Should I change how the original type chart is?
Primarina keeps its Water-type STAB and changes its typing to Water/Ground, a typing normally used for defensive Pokemon. I'm not sure how Primarina will stand in this OM though.
Toxtricity's new typing becomes Electric/Normal, and guess what that means? STAB Boomburst! Toxtricity is probably going to be really good here because of its new access to Normal STAB and keeping its Electric typing, but who knows.
The slowtwins get access to the Ground/Poison typing, which means a lot of benefits come with it. They are no longer crippled by Toxic (kinda,) no longer take any sandstorm damage, and are immune to the Electric typing.
Like I said before, are there any other Pokemon that could be pretty good in this OM? You tell me :D
Dragapult @ Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Dragon Darts
- Body Slam
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
This looks like something to put on the watchlist,don't you think?
Toxtricity @ Choice Specs
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Boomburst
- Volt Switch
- Filler
Ah yes,Toxtricity with STAB Boomburst.Hyper Voice is a small increase in power from Overdrive and Poison type Boomburst with STAB and Punk Rock hits really,really hard.You could also run Scarf over Specs to be a nice revenge killer and cleaner.
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This meta reminds me of a TF2 mod where you could see Random Crits, but you instead count how many times you used X move without any RNG (well besides Speed Ties). While in the mod, storing crits would have massive downside of players staying in spawn rooms and waiting until they get a stored crit, hax in Pokemon is a lot more diverse in what is hax-able.I've had a really cool idea for a metagame that I feel is going to be hell to code but wanted to share anyway:
Timed Hax
Have you ever clicked scald with your pex 8 turns in a row without getting the one burn you need to win? Ever cried in pain after losing to a specs Keldeo hitting Hydro Pump 6 times in a row? Have you ever wanted to remove the only excuse you have for not being a good player after spending hundreds of hours of your life in this godforsaken game? Introducing Timed Hax.
Metagame premise:
All forms of hax (crits, misses, secondary effects in moves, full paras) will not occur randomly but instead will be put on a timer. Once it reaches the end of the timer, the form of hax will occur. If a move's hax chance does not neatly add up to 100 it will be rounded up or down to the nearest number that does.
Examples:
Scald has a 30% chance to burn so it will be rounded to 33.33% and it will burn every 3rd time it is used.
Focus blast has a 30% chance to miss so it will be rounded to 33.33% and it will miss every 3rd time it is used.
Paralysed mons have a 25% chance to be fully paralysed, so every 4th turn they will not be able to move.
***Critical hits will run on a global timer and will affect all attacking moves (except for ones that can't crit or always crit), if a move has a high critical hit chance or if the user has boosted their critical hit chance the equivalent amount of uses will be added to the timer based on the crit chance(table with chances)
Clauses: OU clauses
Bans: OU banlist
Unbans: None
Strategy:
These timers will introduce a huge layer of mind games around when you will use them that couldn't have existed before. You can set up a form of hax like a scald burn and then keep it saved up to you can guarantee a burn on the offensive threat you want. I can see effects sponges being used a lot more as conditions like freeze become much scarier when you can pick what gets frozen. Multi hit moves could be used to quickly set up the crit timer so that it can be abused by a better move. Switching on defensive pokemon can become much easier as you don't have to worry about your physical threats getting randomly burned by scald. Abilities like static also become both less scary and more reliable. I think this will benefit offensive strategies more than defensive ones as even without making progress you will be able to set up your crits and secondary effects timers and use them as a pseudo Z move. And of course the best-selling factor is that you will no longer have random chance to blame for losing your games.
Not fully though out things.
- More global timers. Instead of having every move have its own timer, they are grouped into global timers based on the chance for their hax. One timer for all 33% hax moves (focus blast, scald, discharge, etc.) and so on. This would also make it easier to somehow display all the timers, as I see them becoming very confusing to keep track of otherwise.
- What happens when hax is supposed to happen but can't (scald burn on a fire type), does the timer reset or does it stay charged up. Leaning towards the former as it adds a form of outplaying which seems nice.
- Hax boosting abilities (Serene grace, Victory Star, etc.). Technically the same solution for high crit chance moves could apply, but not sure if the math becomes too messy, the timers could technically overflow this way as well. Easy solution is to just ban them.
- Timer overflow on crits when using high crit chance moves, not sure if it should overflow or reset to 0 once used.
Would love to hear some thoughts on this idea as I think about it every time I get haxed, and if by any chance everyone likes it then
good luck coders
I think Accuracy should be exempt, since no one is going to use a move if they know they’ll miss, and this can also create massive guaranteed momentum sink/rises. For instance, Salamence can just switch into a Hydregion locked into Draco Meteor after it used the move 5 times, which is something a Pokemon that is so frail shouldn’t be able to do normally, much less do it guaranteed.
I also feel like if you get 6-0 Keldeo spamming Hydro Pump 6 times and only to that Keldeo, you really need to improve your team building skills. It’s not like the Keldeo has Sheer Cold. But I will say that I appreciate a Meta that makes it so I don’t have a heart attack every end game where an RNG miss means I lose the game, but I feel like it could be better.
Also, how will Damage Rolls and Speed ties work?
Given how broken STAB E-Speed usually is, I think Cinderace and Spectrier could be unbanned so long as E-Speed is allowed (granted, that’s not going to happen since E-Speed or Pokemon with E-Speed are typically ban even in Metas where it remains Normal).
I think Entei with the right bulk can handle them both and several other Pokemon.
Also, while not as broken, Endeavor strats aren’t blocked by Ghost types any more, so Focus Sash cheese can be very powerful.
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