NOC Bigvivor Mafia Game Thread Day 5

ngl its starting to feel like were talking in circles about this dyo topic. so much of the days discussion so far has been related to him and im not anymore sure about his alignment than i was when the day started. unless were planning on voting on him, i feel like we have to at least take a step back and take a closer look at other people instead of focusing so much on the disagreements surrounding dyos claim and whatever. basically idk whats going on but discussions feel really stagnated at the moment
 
Celever said:
That post is too long for me to read in one sitting on my mobile

I’m surprised Sam’s favourite Ryo moment isn’t him bodying me in a skirmish

I’m also surprised Sam is confident enough in DLE!scum to let it inform his read of me but is voting for Dyo
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I think you missed the point there Cel - it's not really about DLE, it's more about Dyo.

I'm not confident in scum!DLE (and certainly am less confident now that he has started posting and I kind of agree with a lot of what he is saying, though he's obviously capable of making good arguments as scum), but him pushing you as an alternative to Dyo sets up a pretty strong dichotomy between you two. Plus, for whatever reason, there seems to be a lot of people willing to pressure you but not willing to even respond to my arguments about Dyo (basically everyone except M2H has been soft ignoring my Dyo posts / trying to bury them with other content). Even though I don't much like your posting content for today, I think that's a big plus for you overall given my take on Dyo.

HOWEVER, I still want you to answer a couple questions:
- Takes on Nuxl / Spiderz? Clouds pointed out above you've barely interacted with these slots which is really weird
- What's your take on DLE's recent posts / prior activity

Psypsypsypsypsythe said:
ngl its starting to feel like were talking in circles about this dyo topic. so much of the days discussion so far has been related to him and im not anymore sure about his alignment than i was when the day started. unless were planning on voting on him, i feel like we have to at least take a step back and take a closer look at other people instead of focusing so much on the disagreements surrounding dyos claim and whatever. basically idk whats going on but discussions feel really stagnated at the moment
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My main concern is that what happened yesterday is Dyo was being pressured / voted, discussion stalled while the game ignored it / posted miscellaneous other BS, then a randwagon developed on Laurel out of nowhere around EOD that resulted in an awful misvote on Laurel. I do think we need to resolve Dyo as a primary order of business today - we should absolutely be considering other vote options, but we can't just stop talking about him. Also for what it is worth I am absolutely planning on voting for him unless another push develops that I feel even better about, so it's not 'just talk'.

Actually leaving now bye

- Friendly Hydra
 
Psypsypsypsypsythe said:
why is realiti an acceptable vote?
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I’m too tired to make a case and I’m still taking more of a backseat today bc I feel that’s better for town overall

My faith in that hypothesis is waning bc as you’ve said it’s been very lackadaisical, circular discussion so far but I’m gonna give it longer

All I’m saying is I’ll p happily vote realiti
 
UncleSam said:
Can you elaborate on your town read on Ryo? I'm starting to come around to it given his last post felt confused but like he was legitimately trying to solve / pressure to figure things out, which I really liked. I want to hear your original thoughts on it though.

Good point re. the Nuxl push, in general I hated the Laurel push so I really want everybody involved questioned more about their role in it. Nuxl why didn't you ask Laurel for a claim?

Can you elaborate more on the Whydon portion of your scum equity list, as well as why DLE isn't on that list when he is hard defending Dyo here. Although now that I think about it maybe scum!DLE is more likely to do that for a villager than a mafia member.

And re. your tinfoiling around me, all I can really do is lead a horse to water on my mafia reads. I can't make the rest of the village follow and if you choose to sus me for helping to find mafia because I'm 'deepscumming' then I'm totally down to be sussed for it so long as we get the mafia lol, makes no difference to me how much shade gets thrown my way
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It was mostly the adversarial tone he took with me and others regarding the ryo read. There were some other things I noticed too, but in essence he remains me of one of the people I mislynched in a really important game a long time ago, and I think that energy is hard to fake. There are also role considerations at play. Ryo suggested the presence of a role wiper after claiming a significant PR (no details on what it was). IDK if this role wiper thing has been corroborated by anybody else but it would have quite a degree of synergy with a role cop. In a scum!Dyo world, I doubt Ryo (an assumed victim of the role wiper) would be aligned with him. I'd much more expect the role wiper to be scum.

The whydon read is essentially based on the confidence and degree that he pushed dyo d1. I think that was a little beyond what is believable for town!Whydon's game and hence if Dyo is scum I think Whydon was (badly) bussing Dyo there. Honestly yeah DLE probably makes sense with Dyo, though that pairing also seems a little transparent tbh for a player of DLE's caliber. I can't rule it out either way.
 
Psypsypsypsypsythe said:
is there a reason that a mafia role wiper goes for ryo and not m2h who claimed pr?
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I'm not sure what day ryo's role apparently got wiped, although that is a good point. If I was the NK target, maybe I don't get killed and wiped too if that makes sense? At this point I do kind of assume I was the kill last night which is a big assumption but you'd think scum team would spread their roles out if that's the case. Same logic for scum!Dyo not role copping me if I'm the scum NK.
 
Clouds said:
dyo mentioning the cop almost feels like a forced reminder. like, maybe this is a stretch, but i wouldn't be shocked if mafia chat discussed the importance of mentioning the night cop results. anyways i'm gonna vote Dyo again, there is definitely scum intent behind pushing away from this vote at this point, whether or not it's to protect a teammate or to keep a generally sr'd player in the game so heat remains on him

also nuxl/realiti's pushes have made continuously less sense to me with each day (apart from realiti's celever reasoning although i'm mixed on celever himself), and i find it hard to believe one of the people realiti is sr'ing the hardest here is.. dle of all people, who has been almost entirely afk. realiti/dyo being scum together would provide a possible explanation for realiti's quick d1 wagon vote on dyo with whydon if he was trying to clear the possibility of them being teammates

at this point i feel best about drookez, m2h, texas, and maybe even dle based on tone. i am shifty w/ celever and still don't have a firm tr or sr on him. who exactly would've voted him at eod yesterday? it feels like he's getting a lot more attention at the start of the cycle now
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THERE IS NO WAY
 
UncleSam said:
I think you missed the point there Cel - it's not really about DLE, it's more about Dyo.

I'm not confident in scum!DLE (and certainly am less confident now that he has started posting and I kind of agree with a lot of what he is saying, though he's obviously capable of making good arguments as scum), but him pushing you as an alternative to Dyo sets up a pretty strong dichotomy between you two. Plus, for whatever reason, there seems to be a lot of people willing to pressure you but not willing to even respond to my arguments about Dyo (basically everyone except M2H has been soft ignoring my Dyo posts / trying to bury them with other content). Even though I don't much like your posting content for today, I think that's a big plus for you overall given my take on Dyo.

HOWEVER, I still want you to answer a couple questions:
- Takes on Nuxl / Spiderz? Clouds pointed out above you've barely interacted with these slots which is really weird
- What's your take on DLE's recent posts / prior activity


My main concern is that what happened yesterday is Dyo was being pressured / voted, discussion stalled while the game ignored it / posted miscellaneous other BS, then a randwagon developed on Laurel out of nowhere around EOD that resulted in an awful misvote on Laurel. I do think we need to resolve Dyo as a primary order of business today - we should absolutely be considering other vote options, but we can't just stop talking about him. Also for what it is worth I am absolutely planning on voting for him unless another push develops that I feel even better about, so it's not 'just talk'.

Actually leaving now bye

- Friendly Hydra
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OK fair, I feel like a Dyo/me dichotomy is rational. I mean me voting him due to (apparently faulty) nka is what triggered his p random claim yesterday. Not saying that that I think me and Dyo are T/S but a dichotomy seems to track.

Uhhh I guess I’ve said a few times that Eli and Spiderz have been hard for me to read. At various points in discussion Eli especially has had points raised for him either being towny or scummy that I’ve agreed with, and I’ve sorta settled on a “well he IS being useful for pushing discussion so it’s fine to keep him around for a while” stance that I agree is unsatisfactory but I’m not confident enough either way to change. Spiderz is perhaps more interesting in that I did hard town read him earlier in the game and that’s sort of reduced to a soft town lean. Eli and I have definitely interacted directly multiple times and I don’t even remember that being what the source material said, it was only about Spiderz. Me and Spiderz had some direct interaction on D1 and I don’t think any since then TBF. When I made my Laurel wall I noted the complete lack of interaction between Laurel and Spiderz too (despite Laurel’s focus on active players) and said Laurel!scum prob means Spiderz!scum and that was my last relevant thought on him which is now disproven.

^ those aren’t good thoughts but they’re what I’ve got

I can ISO DLE tomorrow if you want, most of my thoughts are second-hand from shading of him by others. I don’t recall anything AI from the first 3 days besides his EoD3 which idrk how to read. His recent posts just read as resigned townie but DLE can fake that. I’m in like D1 stage of reading DLE bc he hasn’t been here
 
realiti said:
wasn't I like hard town for you in your reads list tho LOL
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Celever said:
No I’m fine where I am :)

I don’t think so, no

Stronger than the evidence you gave for me “shading” you today :)
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Celever said:
Hard town:
Clouds - This guy's been really useful when he's been here, afaicr.
Caffeine - Has a tone of content and it all seems perfectly reasonable from a towie perspective. If we were to make a town core I don't feel comfortable with im in it, but he should still be a townread on the perimeter
Realiti - IIRC he's playing exactly the same as in the last maf game I played on this site, where iirc he was town. He and I disagreed on a lot back then in terms of conclusions too (I was scum but, y'know, his reads weren't vs me and my scumbuds iirc we disagreed over scummiest town)
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please fucking vote celever
 
Psypsypsypsypsythe said:
is there a reason that a mafia role wiper goes for ryo and not m2h who claimed pr?
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M2H said:
I'm not sure what day ryo's role apparently got wiped, although that is a good point. If I was the NK target, maybe I don't get killed and wiped too if that makes sense? At this point I do kind of assume I was the kill last night which is a big assumption but you'd think scum team would spread their roles out if that's the case. Same logic for scum!Dyo not role copping me if I'm the scum NK.
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Man I made Psy’s exact post pages ago and you ignored it q-q

The only thing I find weird about you today is how you seemed fairly confident you were nked at SoD but I feel like that can make sense FYPOV if town

I just don’t really get why a doc targets you too?
 
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