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NOC Bigvivor Mafia Game Thread Day 5

Drookez said:
Also I'm just playing, my role isn't a results stealer and i don't have his results. BUT when i said that, i meant clouds should have gotten a certain something in his night results that was from me^^
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Duskfall98 said:
Player originated message (2):

hey i can use this twice tonight that's cool, wonder why
#janzenIsADictator
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Drookez said:
To address some of the recent comments:

1) Why did you target clouds with whatever action? I did whatever I did to clouds honestly not for a specific reason other than I had to use the action on someone and I picked someone that wasn't a big scum suspect in most people's views (that's on my tribe of course). Another reason is that clouds is cute so maybe he can benefit from the action (yes i am biased but tbf i didn't know what to do)

2) Do you town read clouds? Yes, in a sense. As I said, my action would benefit my target so I would need to give it to someone I think of as likely townie. Of course, I have no proof clouds is 100% town.

3) Why does clouds town read you? Obviously I cannot answer for clouds. However, I will say that if I were to receive it from someone I would also view them as town. This is because the action is a "beneficial" in a sense that it makes someone better, so giving it to the mafia as part of their role wouldn't make sense because a mafia with this role would just target within their faction. It also doesn't make sense to give it to a third party because they typically work alone and using this action would not make sense with their win con.

Hope this clears a few things up!
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These three posts i think sum up my position well and any further would be outright claiming.
 
ill probably sleep soon so ill just post something about voting options since i wanna open more discussion about the other potential votes. idk if any of this helps but its worth a shot. firstly, i dont fully agree with m2hs idea of focusing votes on group a players. it could be beneficial to narrow down voting targets but it also feels a bit limiting, especially when shadowpea and vizh are heavily sred but are in group b. we do know now that ryo being wiped d2 guarantees scum in that group (unless again, texas/haruno redirected actions) i can see reasons for voting literally ANYONE from group a all the said, and ill just list out the reasons why in hopes that it could spark some discussion thatll help lead us to some conclusions?

ayia: doesnt produce much content aside from the occasional read. not a lot of information regarding this person
caff: overall hard to read but im honestly struggling to have any conclusion or ideas come to mind that came specifically from them. im teetering back and forth on my read for this one
celever: extremely suspicious behavior from eod3 in which he jumps around from pushing like ayia, laurel, dyo, shadowpea, and definitely more all within like an hour or two without any chance of those wagons taking off. d4 has been much better for him but idk if i fully trust it since he stated hes consciously taking a more backseat presence today which indicates that hes changing his behavior to appear more towny
clouds: scummy behavior but his ability and drookez interactions seem very towny. super mixed bag. idk if we ever found out what his other abilities but im not gonna force him or dyo to reveal that information as it stands
dle: no idea. the frantic dyo defenses have felt super weird but not necessarily scummy. lower presence in the thread. the eod3 vote is still a bit suspicious
dave: low thread presence, hasnt given any reads recently within like the past few days. said hes planning to catch up on the thread so we'll see!
drookez: the one person from this group that i feel strongly about not voting. idk how beneficial abilities really work here (if theyre usually town or scum, how they interact with scum if used on them, etc) but i feel like what weve seen so far at least tells us that drookez isnt lying about his ability.
dyo: why are there so many d people. anyway im not restating everything thats been said about dyo cause i barely understand myself but its a mess and im tempted to vote him just so we have a definite answer on his alignment and what that means for everyone else
m2h: pressure against him has more or less petered out lately which idk how to feel about. posts have been fine but i dont think theres anything theyve done that should clear them of suspicion. the insistence on voting group a was kind of a red flag and this is a minor thing but i dont like that they sometimes leave themself off the list of group a voting candidates. like sure youre not a vote cause you think youre town but if people are skimming through the thread to catch up, they could see the list excluding you and not realize youre group a. kinda subtly harmful

other notes:
-dave, dle, and spiderz all showed up around eod3 almost immediately after they were being talked about
-im fine with voting like any of these people except drookez
 
oh also i should say that we should make sure to take into account that, assuming that the n2 role wipe was not redirected (which is NOT an assumption we should be gung ho about imo), the wiper has to be on group b and therefore, none of the people in group a can be the role wiper as well and they cant communicate with the wiper. idk if mafia can communicate during the day or if their chat is only open at night but if the latter is true, dyo couldnt have told them about their n1 results if they copped ryo. someone please confirm how the mafia chats work in case this is like way off base
 
Psypsypsypsypsythe said:
celever: extremely suspicious behavior from eod3 in which he jumps around from pushing like ayia, laurel, dyo, shadowpea, and definitely more all within like an hour or two without any chance of those wagons taking off.
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also sorry i misspoke here. clearly one of those wagons did take off lol. that part of the sentence was moreso referring to celevers erratic voting between shadowpea and others AFTER the laurel and dyo wagons were the main two
 
Ayia has been MODKILLED due to inactivity. I will be doing this on subjective basis and don't promise to be consistent with how much time people have to post etc, though I will be fair.

Here is their role pm:

You are Totter, ninth place.

You were voted out at the exact wrong time. You had a lot of good relationships built up and your game seemed that it was going to turn around for the better! A lot of influential people had planned to take you to the end, you had several clear paths for survival had you been a little luckier.

Totter will go with us: Seemed to be the thought of a lot of players, I wonder where your loyalty would’ve lied in the end. You can target one player and learn all the places they visit tonight.

You are town, you win when all threats to town have been eliminated from the game.
 
Duskfall98 said:
Ayia has been MODKILLED due to inactivity. I will be doing this on subjective basis and don't promise to be consistent with how much time people have to post etc, though I will be fair.

Here is their role pm:

You are Totter, ninth place.

You were voted out at the exact wrong time. You had a lot of good relationships built up and your game seemed that it was going to turn around for the better! A lot of influential people had planned to take you to the end, you had several clear paths for survival had you been a little luckier.

Totter will go with us: Seemed to be the thought of a lot of players, I wonder where your loyalty would’ve lied in the end. You can target one player and learn all the places they visit tonight.

You are town, you win when all threats to town have been eliminated from the game.
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This is the high quality gameplay I’ve waited two years for
 
UncleSam said:
It is true that I have been skimming the thread you've got me there. The rest of this is a pretty bad post though:
1. Zero pressure got applied to Dyo outside of M2H before my post. Zero.
2. What does this have to do with my post help.
3. Ok I did go back and re-read this day and you've been contributing a lot more. Mb for skimming over most of your posts this day in particular but in my defense in prior days you mostly posted little / no content pushing anybody. If you disagree with that feel free to go back and dig up posts of yours on prior days that seriously pushed somebody because I can't remember any strong interactions between you and others and I'd love to get examples of some so I can gauge you better. Admittedly this might have to do with the fact that your name is so similar to Dyo's and I just think of you as 'the less suspicious '-yo' currently
4. Texas absolutely has not played well at all this game, this is an objective fact. Apricity pointed it out through Day 1, he then HARD tunneled on M2H D2 and D3, and he helped push the Laurel misvote. Celever absolutely has been sheeping Texas and if you don't think so you just haven't been reading the thread, their buddying has been apparent since early D2. I didn't even know Celever SR'd you but honestly I'd count that as a point in your favor currently.
5. Missed this as well (SORRY I don't have the time to read through every detail of all 4k or however many posts there have been), but I still don't see what Nuxl has really been contributing outside of helping to misvote Laurel. Nuxl has been helping facilitate discussion and I have generally felt like he has been an active voice getting people to contribute and pushing for extra logic, but I just don't feel like he has pushed very hard on any of his own reads. I'd point out I'm not the only person to think this.
6. When did I say Caff was good now. I just said that he is looking better to me of the Celever / Caffine combo for today, though DLE pushing onto Celever is making me second guess this. I'd also point out that saying 'if you think X then you're delusional' is a moronic argument that carries no substance. If you think Caff is suspicious now please do post why. If not then kindly refrain from personal attacks (distinction can be found one line above: calling an argument moronic vs. a person moronic)

Please do go through the post more though! This is your best post of the game so far from my perspective and at the least it really does seem like you're trying to pick apart peoples' arguments, which we need a LOT more of today. I might personally think you've taken some bad stances logically but that's why we discuss things ^_^


Not for anything but the entire framework of my original post calling you potentially scum was because of the Laurel vote, so not sure what you're talking about here. The Laurel vote was inherently a counterpush to the Dyo vote, so all Laurel votes necessarily relate to Dyo in some way.


- If my post was a deflection what was I deflecting from? I don't see any serious pushes onto anybody else that I would be 'deflecting' attention away from back onto Dyo. I was making a case against Dyo. I don't doubt that there were at least a few town who sheeped the Laurel vote (mathematically this is in fact certain, there were 8 votes and no way in hell there are 8 mafia or I think we'd almost be at LYLO already?), and if you're concerned about Dyo's cop claims then I'm not sure what about my post would be odd at all to you
- The lack of mafia kill is pointing out suspicious targeting on Dyo's part for two separate nights. It's not hard evidence in the slightest, to be clear, and how is Dyo a 'proven role cop' (which btw is a pretty common mafia role anyway even if that is his role?). It could easily be a teammate with that role (or a full inspector role), and M2H already pointed out the possibility that the mafia tried and failed to kill him which would've given Dyo an out by saying 'oh my result was a fail'
- Agree re. Cel his play seems like he is just pushing things with little conviction.
- Good point re. the total lack of interaction between Cel and Spiderz / Nuxl. I hadn't picked up on that but Celever has been commenting on EVERYBODY and yet I can't remember any time he called either of those two out or directly replied to either. Celever can you point me to a time where this is incorrect?
- I'm not sure where you're not getting a confused vibe from Psy (again, a 100% towny confused vibe, though) - his jumping on the Laurel push felt random and like he just got dizzy amongst all the posting at EOD (though I don't think he was the only one), and it kinda feels like he responds to whatever was most recently posted without digging too much into things. To be clear he is doing infinitely better than I did in my first game, and maybe 'dizzy town' would be more accurate than 'confused town' (confused town can imply that he is being pocketed by a specific mafia member, which I don't think is the case since I don't think he is hard TRing anybody that I can recall)
- I'm a bit curious by your inclusion of realiti in your list at the bottom, that felt so random and out of nowhere. Can you elaborate more on that?
- Spiderz seemed ok D1 then fell off the face of the planet. His posts since coming back seem really devoid of content and the only reason I haven't focused on him much yet today is that he wasn't on the godawful Laurel wagon. My only concern with your list is that it only contains two people who voted Laurel and one who is a possible group 1 killer, neither of which means your hunch is wrong just it's something to keep in mind


Can you elaborate on your town read on Ryo? I'm starting to come around to it given his last post felt confused but like he was legitimately trying to solve / pressure to figure things out, which I really liked. I want to hear your original thoughts on it though.

Good point re. the Nuxl push, in general I hated the Laurel push so I really want everybody involved questioned more about their role in it. Nuxl why didn't you ask Laurel for a claim?

Can you elaborate more on the Whydon portion of your scum equity list, as well as why DLE isn't on that list when he is hard defending Dyo here. Although now that I think about it maybe scum!DLE is more likely to do that for a villager than a mafia member.

And re. your tinfoiling around me, all I can really do is lead a horse to water on my mafia reads. I can't make the rest of the village follow and if you choose to sus me for helping to find mafia because I'm 'deepscumming' then I'm totally down to be sussed for it so long as we get the mafia lol, makes no difference to me how much shade gets thrown my way


What was inaccurately skewed / what did I say that was wrong in any way outside of what I addressed above. My lack of posts is due to having a demanding job and real-life obligations which don't let me post often (and when I do post I'm trying to catch up to a lot of stuff so I try to get as much of my thought process as possible out there when I do have time), frankly I've also not been nearly as AFK as most of the game so not really sure what you're getting at here. I will freely admit I am skimming this thread though, the sheer quantity of posts is just too much.


Lol ok you can't just state this over and over and make it true. Argue your case, you're better than this post regardless of your alignment.


This is me trying but it's hard, I'm not at my computer often and when I am I'm generally playing TFT or Destiny 2 (feel free to add me on both League and Steam if you'd like to monitor my activity and confirm this for yourself).


This is way better than the prior post, but I do disagree. There was a small amount of pressure on him, and he claimed with what felt to me like a pre-arranged story. It felt like he had spent the prior night getting a fake claim ready then just used it since he had it at the first sign of pressure. I read that more as a panic claim than anything else, which I think is more likely to be a scum manuever. To be clear, I do NOT think that any scum teammate told him to 'go crazy' and claim - I think a scum teammate told him to get ready to claim in case of pressure and he just overreacted. I really want to hear you elaborate more on how you read this situation though I've been very frustrated by you basically just dropping in, providing a totally unsubstantiated take, then dipping. If you're town here then you really need to provide more reasoning so that I and others can get on board with it. If you're scum feel free to keep coasting :D


Elaborate on this please, why do you like Dyo here.

Why are we trying to out more roles currently help

I'm out for the night I'll try to be active at some point tomorrow night and will try to catch up so that we can make a better push today than we did yesterday. I'm still nearly certain Dyo is the best option but I'm not as hard set on it as I was a few hours ago. Still keeping my vote where it is though I want to see him post more and provide reads on as many people as possible with as much explanation as possible.

- Friendly Hydra
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1. Im not sure which one of your posts you’re referring to but Dyo has been the player with the most pressure on them the entire game. If you were the first one to *sus* Dyo which I don’t recall and would be way back when, then even then I don’t think you can claim at all that your pressure “lead a charge” on Dyo whatsoever, it’s been a group effort if anything

2. You stated “nobody had formulated a strong reply” or something along those lines to the recent pushes on dyo, so me pointing out the obvious “dyo’s role has been one of the most intense topics of conversation” is merited here and does indeed correlate to your post


3. The burden isnt on me to pull up old posts to prove I was helpful, if you want to provide evidence of me posting misleading (non-one off jokes) without substance then the burden is on you to prove it. That being said I did coast the start because this is my first time playing mafia and you seemed to concede that I’ve been doing more recently regardless. I’ve fought both Celever and M2H before lol and if you want to formulate reads on those interactions then it should be simple since I apparently don’t post.

That being said the start of this day is probably the most conclusive thing you’ll find from me.

4. Iirc it was M2H who pushed hard on Texas and then claimed he “forced Texas into the thread” when Texas got online. I may need to be corrected but I think Texas is currently tunneling M2H at all and back then Texas needed to defend himself since M2H was pushing him. Texas hasn’t done anything from my POV to come off as inherently scummy.

5. You conceded this and I’m not going to speak for nuxl on the second half because I am interested in his comments.

6. I agree that in most cases the “X or you’re delusional” response in dumb, but objectively caff looking worse now than he did at the start is a fact. And if you need evidence I don’t like post fishing but you can view caff agreeing with me on this yourself LOL unless he’s big braining you to appear more scummy

I’m gonna let the people you intended the rest for to respond to those points
 
RyoDio said:
1. Im not sure which one of your posts you’re referring to but Dyo has been the player with the most pressure on them the entire game. If you were the first one to *sus* Dyo which I don’t recall and would be way back when, then even then I don’t think you can claim at all that your pressure “lead a charge” on Dyo whatsoever, it’s been a group effort if anything

2. You stated “nobody had formulated a strong reply” or something along those lines to the recent pushes on dyo, so me pointing out the obvious “dyo’s role has been one of the most intense topics of conversation” is merited here and does indeed correlate to your post


3. The burden isnt on me to pull up old posts to prove I was helpful, if you want to provide evidence of me posting misleading (non-one off jokes) without substance then the burden is on you to prove it. That being said I did coast the start because this is my first time playing mafia and you seemed to concede that I’ve been doing more recently regardless. I’ve fought both Celever and M2H before lol and if you want to formulate reads on those interactions then it should be simple since I apparently don’t post.

That being said the start of this day is probably the most conclusive thing you’ll find from me.

4. Iirc it was M2H who pushed hard on Texas and then claimed he “forced Texas into the thread” when Texas got online. I may need to be corrected but I think Texas is currently tunneling M2H at all and back then Texas needed to defend himself since M2H was pushing him. Texas hasn’t done anything from my POV to come off as inherently scummy.

5. You conceded this and I’m not going to speak for nuxl on the second half because I am interested in his comments.

6. I agree that in most cases the “X or you’re delusional” response in dumb, but objectively caff looking worse now than he did at the start is a fact. And if you need evidence I don’t like post fishing but you can view caff agreeing with me on this yourself LOL unless he’s big braining you to appear more scummy

I’m gonna let the people you intended the rest for to respond to those points
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* is currently NOT tunneling M2H at all
 
Psypsypsypsypsythe said:
is there a reason that a mafia role wiper goes for ryo and not m2h who claimed pr?
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I think it’s very likely getting rid of my role was higher priority than getting rid of whatever M2H’s is. However it is also very possible that kill was on M2H while wipe was on me.

I’m moreso considering whether it was because more people were starting to town read me or whats more likely: that mafia likely knew my role. Whether that was Dyo or there’s a different scum “rolecop” or whatever y’all I call it was something brought up previously iirc
 
Duskfall98 said:
Ayia has been MODKILLED due to inactivity. I will be doing this on subjective basis and don't promise to be consistent with how much time people have to post etc, though I will be fair.

Here is their role pm:

You are Totter, ninth place.

You were voted out at the exact wrong time. You had a lot of good relationships built up and your game seemed that it was going to turn around for the better! A lot of influential people had planned to take you to the end, you had several clear paths for survival had you been a little luckier.

Totter will go with us: Seemed to be the thought of a lot of players, I wonder where your loyalty would’ve lied in the end. You can target one player and learn all the places they visit tonight.

You are town, you win when all threats to town have been eliminated from the game.
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Unvote

so much for that bait.
 
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