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A nomination I forgot to mention in my previous post is
Chansey
Yes she hates Knock Off, yes she hates hazards, but with Defog/Rapid Spin support and a solid dark resist/KO catcher, the extra bulk allows your pink blob to sit on a lot of threat much more comfortably on both sides of the attacking spectrum. The extra turns you gain without having to recover lets you click Teleport more often and the Rain/Sun behemoths become much less scary, allowing you to go full physical defence on Ferro or any of your other walls. Being able to safely switch in and stall out non-Knock Off defensive Landos, even with chip damage, is a huge boon to any team.
I honestly don't feel she'd be out of place in B rank alongside Blissey, even though I think Blissey is generally better in a less specialised role.
And
Nidoking is scary as hell. You pretty much know how effective he'll be from the team preview and if you've scouted out how your opponent likes to switch he just blows chunks in Bliss/Chans-less teams. HO/Rain/Sun can generally outspeed or prevent a switch-in quite well, but against Bulky Offence he's generally eating good. He strikes me as a A- rank in the current metagame, as he needs capable hands and pivot support to really shine.
RISE
A- -> A+ (Or atleast A)
Buzzwole is incredible in the current metagame. Being an amazing physical wall, but also being able to hit hard back. Buzzwole matches up incredibly against the metagame. Landorus, Ferrothorn and Weavile all lose to Close Combat/Ice Punch. Heatran has been offensive as of late, some running Modest, some Timid. However I have a set I personally think is underrated.
Buzzwole @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Roost
Running a jolly nature on Buzzwole may seem like overkill, but looking at it closely, it helps it a lot. This set lets you outrun Timid Heatran (And threaten a KO), Rillaboom, a lot of Zapdos sets, Timid Volcanion, Modest Nidoking, and so on. All while remaining good bulk to still wall pokemon like Weavile and Urshifu. Buzzwole not only has defensive sets, but offensive sets can be strong as well, maintaining good bulk, instant recovery, and good coverage moves. Overall, Buzzwole is thriving right now, while it does not enjoy 3/4 Tapus, Blacephalon, Dragapult etc, it still matches up incredibly well against the meta, and is THE go to physical wall.
RISE
B- -> B
I made a nom on Rillaboom a while back, as I mentioned, I think it should swap spots with Tapu Bulu. Tapu Bulu has enough going for it to warrant itself a B rank spot. While being 4 times weak to poison hurts, there are not many poison moves in the metagame right now. Outside of Toxapex, the other ones like Nidoking's SW, and Volcanions Sludge moves would kill it anyways, and Volcanion has fire STAB anyways. The fairy typing helps it many other ways however. You can check SD Kartana (as most don't run smart strike), Urshifu, and Garchomp (Non +2 Fire Fang). Not having a U turn weakness means it isn't taking a ton from defensive Pokémon's U-Turns, like Rillaboom would. Tapu Bulu unlike Rillaboom can also take on the flying types, or scare them to switching in. While Bulu does not want to stay in on Zapdos, Zapdos is not a free switch as Choice Band Stone Edge can take it out, which makes it not an easy switch. Tornadus and yes Mandibuzz, are also in this situation. While Rillaboom can Knock Off these birds, Zapdos can threaten Static, and isn't ruined without boots, Tornadus is barely ruined by no boots, and Mandibuzz yes that is the case, having the threat of an OHKO on Zapdos and Torn is great. Mandibuzz is not an OHKO but takes a lot, and can't check it afterwards. Tapu Bulu is not a metagame superstar right now, but I think it is warrant of a B rank placement.
RISE
B -> A-
I previously made a nom on Nidoking, so im not gonna go to in depth. Nidoking is in contention for hardest Pokémon to switch into, being limited to Blissey, Slowking Johto, and Swampert. Blissey is not amazing in the current metagame, so that opens up Nidoking further. Even then Focus Punch and Superpower are options for hitting the blobs, and can completely change the game. However, the coverage Nidoking possesses is incredible. Many common special walls, like Heatran, Tapu Fini, or Clefable are unable to come in, as they are threatened by the STABS. Pokémon like Landorus and Ferrothorn could take hits, but only if Nidoking wasn't also given Ice Beam and Flamethrower. Nidoking can scare entire teams at preview, and in my eyes, it is way above the other Pokémon in B, and probably better than the Pokémon in B+ as well.
DROP
A -> A-
Corviknight is still an amazing Pokémon. Being able to wall Kartana, wall Tapu Lele and Dragapult with a SpDef set, semi check Weavile etc. However, the way the metagame is moving is harsh towards Corviknight. A lot of fire types are common right now for starters. Heatran has been using offensive sets, Volcanion is on the rise, Victini is still popular, and Blacephalon is great. These pokemon can give Corviknight issues, even if running a SpDef set. These common offensive Pokémon being around make Corviknight struggle more to fill it's purpose as a wall and pivot. But that's not all. Corviknight faces steel competition for a team slot, from the likes of Ferrothorn, Heatran, Melmetal etc. These other pokemon, while not having instant recovery, are even Bulkier, and can hit hard back, while for Ferrothorn, can annoy the opposition with Leech Seed and Knock Off. Corviknight's best role, walling Rillaboom is more irrelivant now. Not only has Rillaboom fallen, but Corviknight faces flying competition and defog competition. Landorus has generally been a better defogger, as it can check non Balloon Heatran, and isn't prone to Magnezone. Tornadus and Zapdos do a better job beating Kartana, as Tornadus outruns it, and Zapdos can static. Lastly Corviknight wants more Evs than it has. Corviknight is currently trying to beat to much at once right now. It's trying to beat Tapu Lele, Dragapult, Weavile, Urshifu, Kartana etc. This makes evs restricting for it, as it can't deal with one well if invested in one side, and vise versa. It's trying to beat to much at once, and struggles to check what it wants to.
Corviknight is still great, Phys def can still wall a lot of Pokémon, Corviknight still has amazing typing and movepool, Pressure, and other perks. However it is not at it's best point right now.
RISE
A- -> A+ (Or atleast A)
Buzzwole is incredible in the current metagame. Being an amazing physical wall, but also being able to hit hard back. Buzzwole matches up incredibly against the metagame. Landorus, Ferrothorn and Weavile all lose to Close Combat/Ice Punch. Heatran has been offensive as of late, some running Modest, some Timid. However I have a set I personally think is underrated.
Buzzwole @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Roost
Running a jolly nature on Buzzwole may seem like overkill, but looking at it closely, it helps it a lot. This set lets you outrun Timid Heatran (And threaten a KO), Rillaboom, a lot of Zapdos sets, Timid Volcanion, Modest Nidoking, and so on. All while remaining good bulk to still wall pokemon like Weavile and Urshifu. Buzzwole not only has defensive sets, but offensive sets can be strong as well, maintaining good bulk, instant recovery, and good coverage moves. Overall, Buzzwole is thriving right now, while it does not enjoy 3/4 Tapus, Blacephalon, Dragapult etc, it still matches up incredibly well against the meta, and is THE go to physical wall.
RISE
B- -> B
I made a nom on Rillaboom a while back, as I mentioned, I think it should swap spots with Tapu Bulu. Tapu Bulu has enough going for it to warrant itself a B rank spot. While being 4 times weak to poison hurts, there are not many poison moves in the metagame right now. Outside of Toxapex, the other ones like Nidoking's SW, and Volcanions Sludge moves would kill it anyways, and Volcanion has fire STAB anyways. The fairy typing helps it many other ways however. You can check SD Kartana (as most don't run smart strike), Urshifu, and Garchomp (Non +2 Fire Fang). Not having a U turn weakness means it isn't taking a ton from defensive Pokémon's U-Turns, like Rillaboom would. Tapu Bulu unlike Rillaboom can also take on the flying types, or scare them to switching in. While Bulu does not want to stay in on Zapdos, Zapdos is not a free switch as Choice Band Stone Edge can take it out, which makes it not an easy switch. Tornadus and yes Mandibuzz, are also in this situation. While Rillaboom can Knock Off these birds, Zapdos can threaten Static, and isn't ruined without boots, Tornadus is barely ruined by no boots, and Mandibuzz yes that is the case, having the threat of an OHKO on Zapdos and Torn is great. Mandibuzz is not an OHKO but takes a lot, and can't check it afterwards. Tapu Bulu is not a metagame superstar right now, but I think it is warrant of a B rank placement.
RISE
B -> A-
I previously made a nom on Nidoking, so im not gonna go to in depth. Nidoking is in contention for hardest Pokémon to switch into, being limited to Blissey, Slowking Johto, and Swampert. Blissey is not amazing in the current metagame, so that opens up Nidoking further. Even then Focus Punch and Superpower are options for hitting the blobs, and can completely change the game. However, the coverage Nidoking possesses is incredible. Many common special walls, like Heatran, Tapu Fini, or Clefable are unable to come in, as they are threatened by the STABS. Pokémon like Landorus and Ferrothorn could take hits, but only if Nidoking wasn't also given Ice Beam and Flamethrower. Nidoking can scare entire teams at preview, and in my eyes, it is way above the other Pokémon in B, and probably better than the Pokémon in B+ as well.
DROP
A -> A-
Corviknight is still an amazing Pokémon. Being able to wall Kartana, wall Tapu Lele and Dragapult with a SpDef set, semi check Weavile etc. However, the way the metagame is moving is harsh towards Corviknight. A lot of fire types are common right now for starters. Heatran has been using offensive sets, Volcanion is on the rise, Victini is still popular, and Blacephalon is great. These pokemon can give Corviknight issues, even if running a SpDef set. These common offensive Pokémon being around make Corviknight struggle more to fill it's purpose as a wall and pivot. But that's not all. Corviknight faces steel competition for a team slot, from the likes of Ferrothorn, Heatran, Melmetal etc. These other pokemon, while not having instant recovery, are even Bulkier, and can hit hard back, while for Ferrothorn, can annoy the opposition with Leech Seed and Knock Off. Corviknight's best role, walling Rillaboom is more irrelivant now. Not only has Rillaboom fallen, but Corviknight faces flying competition and defog competition. Landorus has generally been a better defogger, as it can check non Balloon Heatran, and isn't prone to Magnezone. Tornadus and Zapdos do a better job beating Kartana, as Tornadus outruns it, and Zapdos can static. Lastly Corviknight wants more Evs than it has. Corviknight is currently trying to beat to much at once right now. It's trying to beat Tapu Lele, Dragapult, Weavile, Urshifu, Kartana etc. This makes evs restricting for it, as it can't deal with one well if invested in one side, and vise versa. It's trying to beat to much at once, and struggles to check what it wants to.
Corviknight is still great, Phys def can still wall a lot of Pokémon, Corviknight still has amazing typing and movepool, Pressure, and other perks. However it is not at it's best point right now.
I agree with most of those, especially the Buzzwole rise, and wanted to add to Bulu. I was a little surprised to not see damage reducing berries mentioned, given how significant they are to its offensive versatility. Berries like Coba Berry allow it to bait and threaten the tier's birds barring Corviknight, which grants itself and partners such as Kartana, Buzzwole, or Urshifu more breaking opportunities. Yache is an excellent choice, as Tapu Bulu's natural bulk and defensive Fairy-typing allow it to take threats like Weavile head on, while also tackling Hail. Occa is a less mentioned one due to some limited application, but its benefits are certainly there. The usual Fire-type suspects aren't often prepared for it (apart from when they don't care about it anyways, Like Specs Volcanion or Sun teams), and it lets Bulu get around the other coverage options of Tornadus, Zapdos, Garchomp, and Dragapult.
My only preferences / disagreements are that Buzzwole is rises to A, and Corviknight stays in A.
As great of a defensive presence Buzzwole is, threats like Weavile often do all they can to squeeze as much power out of themselves, which creates a lot of problems for Buzzwole. The first is just how much Buzzwole has to dedicate to its bulk just to be a relatively consistent check for Weavile, which stresses its roles. The second is how much Buzzwole suffers 4MSS. While it has arguably amazing coverage, it usually can't fit it all into one set while retaining consistent defensive utility. Outside of that, it's usually the go-to defensive wall for a lot of teams and a very trendy pick, which makes me place it in A rather than A+.
Not trying to be too contrary, considering a recent posting, but I've had more time to think on this one and take a more in-depth look at it.
I still think Corviknight has a lot going for it despite its shortcomings, and honestly, seeing it sitting below things like Magnezone (which can be very do-little and hard to build around) is awkward. Plus, I would like to see more input on this drop. That leads to my noms, which are:
Magnezone A -> A-
I really don't get why Magnezone is somehow among some of the best picks of the tier, especially when things like Volcanion, Blacephalon, and Buzzwole are below it. Sure it has a good amount of versatility and general utility as a trapper for the better Steel-types of the tier, but not many teams can afford to run it, and in a decent majority of matchups it contributes very little. Plus, the climate of the tier has afforded little advantage to Magnezone among offensive titans like Volcanion, Heatran, Weavile, etc. Easy A- imo.
Volcarona A -> A-
A very threatening sweeper with the benefit of Flame Body, while being an overall okay check to physical attackers. However, the offensive climate of the tier hasn't been entirely beneficial to Volcarona. Similarly to how I described Buzzwole, it provides a decent defensive and offensive output but is generally overwhelmed, and suffers from 4MSS. Volcarona also needs to pick between bulkier and more offensive sets, much like Buzzwole, which vary its power and utility. It is a select lategame sweeper which, although potent, is situational. For these reasons, I think it belongs in A-.
[EDIT]
Kin to Magnezone, it also isn't always easy to fit on most teams.
Aside from other noms, what do you guys think of Jirachi?
Jirachi B- -> C+ (maybe C)
I don't think it's justified in the position it has, but I have limited understanding because I see this thing very little and when I do it's a gimmick set. What does it really have that's applicable to teams that use it, and what kind of synergy does it have?
RISE
A- -> A+ (Or atleast A)
Buzzwole is incredible in the current metagame. Being an amazing physical wall, but also being able to hit hard back. Buzzwole matches up incredibly against the metagame. Landorus, Ferrothorn and Weavile all lose to Close Combat/Ice Punch. Heatran has been offensive as of late, some running Modest, some Timid. However I have a set I personally think is underrated.
Buzzwole @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Roost
Running a jolly nature on Buzzwole may seem like overkill, but looking at it closely, it helps it a lot. This set lets you outrun Timid Heatran (And threaten a KO), Rillaboom, a lot of Zapdos sets, Timid Volcanion, Modest Nidoking, and so on. All while remaining good bulk to still wall pokemon like Weavile and Urshifu. Buzzwole not only has defensive sets, but offensive sets can be strong as well, maintaining good bulk, instant recovery, and good coverage moves. Overall, Buzzwole is thriving right now, while it does not enjoy 3/4 Tapus, Blacephalon, Dragapult etc, it still matches up incredibly well against the meta, and is THE go to physical wall.
RISE
B- -> B
I made a nom on Rillaboom a while back, as I mentioned, I think it should swap spots with Tapu Bulu. Tapu Bulu has enough going for it to warrant itself a B rank spot. While being 4 times weak to poison hurts, there are not many poison moves in the metagame right now. Outside of Toxapex, the other ones like Nidoking's SW, and Volcanions Sludge moves would kill it anyways, and Volcanion has fire STAB anyways. The fairy typing helps it many other ways however. You can check SD Kartana (as most don't run smart strike), Urshifu, and Garchomp (Non +2 Fire Fang). Not having a U turn weakness means it isn't taking a ton from defensive Pokémon's U-Turns, like Rillaboom would. Tapu Bulu unlike Rillaboom can also take on the flying types, or scare them to switching in. While Bulu does not want to stay in on Zapdos, Zapdos is not a free switch as Choice Band Stone Edge can take it out, which makes it not an easy switch. Tornadus and yes Mandibuzz, are also in this situation. While Rillaboom can Knock Off these birds, Zapdos can threaten Static, and isn't ruined without boots, Tornadus is barely ruined by no boots, and Mandibuzz yes that is the case, having the threat of an OHKO on Zapdos and Torn is great. Mandibuzz is not an OHKO but takes a lot, and can't check it afterwards. Tapu Bulu is not a metagame superstar right now, but I think it is warrant of a B rank placement.
RISE
B -> A-
I previously made a nom on Nidoking, so im not gonna go to in depth. Nidoking is in contention for hardest Pokémon to switch into, being limited to Blissey, Slowking Johto, and Swampert. Blissey is not amazing in the current metagame, so that opens up Nidoking further. Even then Focus Punch and Superpower are options for hitting the blobs, and can completely change the game. However, the coverage Nidoking possesses is incredible. Many common special walls, like Heatran, Tapu Fini, or Clefable are unable to come in, as they are threatened by the STABS. Pokémon like Landorus and Ferrothorn could take hits, but only if Nidoking wasn't also given Ice Beam and Flamethrower. Nidoking can scare entire teams at preview, and in my eyes, it is way above the other Pokémon in B, and probably better than the Pokémon in B+ as well.
DROP
A -> A-
Corviknight is still an amazing Pokémon. Being able to wall Kartana, wall Tapu Lele and Dragapult with a SpDef set, semi check Weavile etc. However, the way the metagame is moving is harsh towards Corviknight. A lot of fire types are common right now for starters. Heatran has been using offensive sets, Volcanion is on the rise, Victini is still popular, and Blacephalon is great. These pokemon can give Corviknight issues, even if running a SpDef set. These common offensive Pokémon being around make Corviknight struggle more to fill it's purpose as a wall and pivot. But that's not all. Corviknight faces steel competition for a team slot, from the likes of Ferrothorn, Heatran, Melmetal etc. These other pokemon, while not having instant recovery, are even Bulkier, and can hit hard back, while for Ferrothorn, can annoy the opposition with Leech Seed and Knock Off. Corviknight's best role, walling Rillaboom is more irrelivant now. Not only has Rillaboom fallen, but Corviknight faces flying competition and defog competition. Landorus has generally been a better defogger, as it can check non Balloon Heatran, and isn't prone to Magnezone. Tornadus and Zapdos do a better job beating Kartana, as Tornadus outruns it, and Zapdos can static. Lastly Corviknight wants more Evs than it has. Corviknight is currently trying to beat to much at once right now. It's trying to beat Tapu Lele, Dragapult, Weavile, Urshifu, Kartana etc. This makes evs restricting for it, as it can't deal with one well if invested in one side, and vise versa. It's trying to beat to much at once, and struggles to check what it wants to.
Corviknight is still great, Phys def can still wall a lot of Pokémon, Corviknight still has amazing typing and movepool, Pressure, and other perks. However it is not at it's best point right now.
I second Smashburn in that I'm not sure if I entirely agree with dropping Corv. However, if it is gonna be A- it should be there with Magnezone. I also want to second the Nidoking rise. As a special wallbreaker in this current stage of the meta, it joins the likes of Volcanion and Tapu Lele in that it loves the current trends that allow it to blast through teams that have their tails between their legs due to the looming threat of Weavile. Its awkward speed and rough bulk could provide a case for it to just go to B+ but I do think that it puts in a lot of work in most games to where it should be A-. Trading some power for not needing to be choice locked and not taking the life orb recoil also helps maintain momentum.
Aside from other noms, what do you guys think of Jirachi?
Jirachi B- -> C+ (maybe C)
I don't think it's justified in the position it has, but I have limited understanding because I see this thing very little and when I do it's a gimmick set. What does it really have that's applicable to teams that use it, and what kind of synergy does it have?
agree, I feel like its placement is a remnant of the Kyurem meta, where it was a check to it. Now, it's only a decent Tapu Lele check mostly, so If Tapu Lele rises then I think Jirachi is somewhat justified in not dropping further.
I second Smashburn in that I'm not sure if I entirely agree with dropping Corv. However, if it is gonna be A- it should be there with Magnezone. I also want to second the Nidoking rise. As a special wallbreaker in this current stage of the meta, it joins the likes of Volcanion and Tapu Lele in that it loves the current trends that allow it to blast through teams that have their tails between their legs due to the looming threat of Weavile. Its awkward speed and rough bulk could provide a case for it to just go to B+ but I do think that it puts in a lot of work in most games to where it should be A-. Trading some power for not needing to be choice locked and not taking the life orb recoil also helps maintain momentum.
Agreed, I tried to- although not very successfully- insinuate from Zone higher than Corv feels weird, that the two would require other placements; either together or in a place where Corviknight is higher than Zone.
With Nidoking, my thoughts have been that it rises with the other B+ mons. It's a very strong threat, but the presence of things like Slowking or Blissey/Chansey in a game means it is very limited. As you mentioned the awkward speed tier and middling bulk is also to Nidoking's detriment, and it isn't very easy to fit on a lot of teams who would rather have a ground type which isn't worn down so easily.
Agreed, I tried to- although not very successfully- insinuate from Zone higher than Corv feels weird, that the two would require other placements; either together or in a place where Corviknight is higher than Zone.
With Nidoking, my thoughts have been that it rises with the other B+ mons. It's a very strong threat, but the presence of things like Slowking or Blissey/Chansey in a game means it is very limited. As you mentioned the awkward speed tier and middling bulk is also to Nidoking's detriment, and it isn't very easy to fit on a lot of teams who would rather have a ground type which isn't worn down so easily.
Remember when we used to think regieleki was entirely worthless because of it's inability to hit ground types effectively ? It took some time for minds to change and realize he actually had some merit, because of it's unsurpassed speed and access to rapid spin, as well as it's ability to put huge pressure on electric immune mons just by existing in the team preview, as losing them would mean almost certain death at the hands of electro kid. Just like we did for eleki, I think it's time to start considering the other (much cooler) newborn member of the regi family for OU...
UR -> C
Now hold on just a second before reacting to this post with a "haha" emoji and moving on. This is not a joke, this is not a meme, I'm being fully serious here; I have played over 200 games, testing Regidrago amongside various teams on the ladder over the past weeks and I genuinely believe it has some competitive merit. I'm not saying it's the next big thing, or even a really good mon, but just like a lot of other C-rankers, it has a few unique characteristics that can allow it to shine under the right circumstances. So what are those characteristics exactly, you might ask ? Let's get into it.
I. What the heck is a 'Regidrago' ?
Let's start with the basics; As the mon is currently NUBL, it wouldn't be a surprise if you weren't exactly familiar with what it does. Regidrago is a dragon-type pokemon with a stat distribution of 200/100/50/100/50/80 and the ability Dragon's Maw, which powers-up dragon-type moves it uses by 50%. So it's just a slow but bulky regieleki then ? Not exactly. Where regieleki's signature move Thunder Cage isn't really something to write home about, Regidrago's signature move is what I believe makes it worth using in OU; Dragon Energy. This move is dragon-type Eruption/Water Spout, and in combination with Dragon's Maw, it makes this mon unwallable by anything not pink, cute and cuddly. Let's see why.
II. The set + Important Calcs
Regidrago @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dragon's Maw
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dragon Energy
- Dragon Pulse
- Ancient Power
- Draco Meteor/Explosion
With max speed evs Regidrago hits 259 speed, allowing it to outspeed almost every defensive mon in the tier, including most defensive Lando-T spreads and a decent portion of slower offensive mons, up to modest Volcanion. When you consider that the meta right now favors slow and bulky teams rather than fast offensive ones, this isn't so bad. Moreoever, even uninvested, its HP hits a massive 541, meaning the few defensive mons that do outspeed it such as fast rotom-wash are unable to hit it with anything powerful enough to deter it from just clicking Dragon Energy anyways. This bulk also allows it to live most unboosted hits and some boosted ones as well, effectively acting as a one-time sweep stopper if you keep it healthy through the game. Ancient Power (and Explosion) are there to hit fairies on the switch to either chip them for later or eliminate them for your team at the cost of drago's life. Draco Meteor is also an option to have a stronger stab when you're low or outsped, and even though I prefer explosion, it does nab a few OHKOs that pulse fails to guarantee, such as dnite through multiscale or Nihilego. Here are some calcs to illustrate the set's power:
vs Walls/Resists:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 163-192 (46.3 - 54.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Corviknight: 259-306 (64.9 - 76.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 387-456 (54.2 - 63.8%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 339-400 (86 - 101.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 228-268 (57.8 - 68%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 174-204 (45 - 52.8%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Landorus-Therian: 459-541 (120.1 - 141.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 282-333 (92.7 - 109.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
as you can see, there is no walling this. Here are some more calcs to show how it trades vs offensive mons:
252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Smart Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regidrago: 382-450 (70.6 - 83.1%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana: 339-400 (130.8 - 154.4%)
+1 252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regidrago: 306-360 (56.5 - 66.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zeraora: 342-403 (107.8 - 127.1%)
+1 252 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regidrago: 434-512 (80.2 - 94.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 285-336 (88.2 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO through multiscale
+1 252 SpA Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Regidrago: 379-447 (70 - 82.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Blacephalon: 346-408 (140 - 165.1%)
+2252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regidrago in Grassy Terrain: 357-421 (65.9 - 77.8%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 382-451 (112 - 132.2%)
I'm not going to go through all of them but you can try it for yourself and see that it's very hard to OHKO drago, and even harder to not be OHKOd by it.
So what's wrong then ? Why is regidrago not already on every single team ? Well you already know the answer... It's because of fairy-type pokemon. Regidrago lacks any special coverage to supplement it's incredibly strong dragon stabs, making it unable to break through fairies by itself. However, this alone does not make Regidrago unusable; let's get into the details.
III. Why use Regidrago / What about Fairies ?
1) Not every team has a fairy in it. The very existence of fairy types is enough to deter a lot of pokemons (dragapult and the lati twins being the main exceptions) to run dragon-type moves at all. When was the last time you saw a garchomp or dragonite using a dragon stab ? In return, because of the disappearance of dragon-type moves, fairies are not considered a must-have like an electric or ground immunity, since all dragon sweepers rely on their secondary stabs or coverage moves to try and score KOs, or have answers that don't need to be fairy type in the case of Dragapult. And this tendency is true at every level of play, not just low ladder (althought I can't speak for top ladder, but I assume it must be the same). From what I've seen in my week of extensive testing, about 30 to 40% of teams actually don't have fairy-types at all. In these cases, Regidrago will be an extremely valuable asset, being able to score a kill essentially every single-time it's brought in.
2) Mindgames. Since regidrago is such a powerhouse, no mon in the game that isn't made of glitter and cupcakes can reliably take more than one hit from it. Because of this, everytime you bring in Regidrago, you can be almost certain than your opponent will switch out to their fairy. I found this to be easily exploitable as long as you teambuild around Regidrago and include some fairy killers in your team (in particular, I felt like Regidrago worked very well in tandem with Heatran and Banded Melmetal) which you'll be able to freely bring in on the incoming fairy. Of course your opponent will catch on to this and simply stop switching out in front of the Drago, but this creates dangerous 50/50s as they will permanently be at risk of losing a mon should they decide to stay in while the worst thing you risk is just wasting an energy on a fairy and losing a bit of momentum.
3) The power of fear and chip. Similarly to Regieleki, having a Regidrago in your team creates a climate of pressure right from team preview where your opponent will be hesitant to bring out their fairies in fear of losing them and being much much worse off against your Regidrago. This lets you use Regidrago's teammates that would normally be checked by said fairies much much easier. But there's more ! In the case of regieleki, ground-types have the benefit of being resistant to stealth rock (or in the case of Lando, immune to spikes) and are often defensive mons that run leftovers (or a recovery move in the case of Hippowdon), thus making it hard to chip them throughout the game. Out of all 5 fairies ran in OU, Fini, Alolatales and Lele lack any form of reliable recovery and are thus very vulnerable to chip, while Koko sometimes runs roost but is frail as paper and doesn't like being forced out to come out, leaving only clef as an answer that is actually hard to get rid off, but is often passive and sinks your opponent's momentum every time it's forced out by Drago. When combined with the previous point, Regidrago essentially makes your opponent's fairies less effective just by existing.
4) Safety switch. As demonstrated by earlier calcs, Regidrago is extremely hard to OHKO, and shines in the late game where it will very often trade one for one with one of your opponent's offensive mons or would be sweepers. Note that this is true whether or not they had fairies at all to begin with.
5) Teamwork. This should go without saying, but Regidrago isn't gonna be the only pokemon on your team. Yes it suffers from the presence of fairies, but so does volc from the presence of heatran and blissey, eleki from the presence of grounds, etc... You have 5 other mons to deal with Drago's fairy weakness, so people need to stop acting like this one trait makes it completely unplayable when other perfectly viable mons have similar hard counters.
BONUS: Potential teammates / Teambuilding ideas
In my testing, I've found Banded Melmetal to be one of the mons that are the most effective together with Specs Regidrago. Melm loves doubling on the Fairies that Regidrago lures in, giving it an opportunity to fire off a free band boosted-move, potentially blowing a hole in the enemy team. It's also worth noting that Drago has no trouble with Melm's common checks in the slowtwins, ferrothorn, pex and zapdos, so they naturally just work great together. Nidoking is also something to be considered, being the tier's premier offensive poison-type and fairy-killer, while also having access to either Stealth Rock or Toxic Spikes in the last slot to further increase the pressure on fairy-types and chipping them when they come in. In particular Nidoking loves clef and can come in very easily on it. Teammates that can safely bring it in, such as Teleport slowbro/king, slowturn lando/corv and the likes are also very nice and allow you to keep offensive pressure.
While Regidrago does suffer from the presence of fairies in the game, it's not a hurdle that it is impossible to overcome for it when paired with the right mons and played correctly. What's more, fairies don't completely nullify Regidrago's usefulness but simply make it a little harder to play. When considering the sheer destructive power of Dragon Energy versus everything else, I feel like it's not enough to completely disregard this mon; hence I think it deserves a rank in C, as it is DEFINITELY usable with proper support while having a few unique qualities (unmatched power and excellent bulk for a mon that deals this much damage), which is literally the definition of a C rank mon. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Below are a collection of replays that demonstrate Regidrago being used in practice.
I'm aware, I already mentioned this in a previous post concerning Magnezone. Albeit, it wasn't the most detailed because I was condensing information, but if you need more I can elaborate.
Sure it has a good amount of versatility and general utility as a trapper for the better Steel-types of the tier, but not many teams can afford to run it, and in a decent majority of matchups it contributes very little.
Yeah and as shown in this replay https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1558488145, it's not the most reliable trapper for Banded Melmetal given it gets bopped by Earthquake or Superpower on the switch meaning usually you're gonna be trapping it after it kills another mon of yours with Double Iron Bash
Remember when we used to think regieleki was entirely worthless because of it's inability to hit ground types effectively ? It took some time for minds to change and realize he actually had some merit, because of it's unsurpassed speed and access to rapid spin, as well as it's ability to put huge pressure on electric immune mons just by existing in the team preview, as losing them would mean almost certain death at the hands of electro kid. Just like we did for eleki, I think it's time to start considering the other (much cooler) newborn member of the regi family for OU...
Now hold on just a second before reacting to this post with a "haha" emoji and moving on. This is not a joke, this is not a meme, I'm being fully serious here; I have played over 200 games, testing Regidrago amongside various teams on the ladder over the past weeks and I genuinely believe it has some competitive merit. I'm not saying it's the next big thing, or even a really good mon, but just like a lot of other C-rankers, it has a few unique characteristics that can allow it to shine under the right circumstances. So what are those characteristics exactly, you might ask ? Let's get into it.
I. What the heck is a 'Regidrago' ?
Let's start with the basics; As the mon is currently NUBL, it wouldn't be a surprise if you weren't exactly familiar with what it does. Regidrago is a dragon-type pokemon with a stat distribution of 200/100/50/100/50/80 and the ability Dragon's Maw, which powers-up dragon-type moves it uses by 50%. So it's just a slow but bulky regieleki then ? Not exactly. Where regieleki's signature move Thunder Cage isn't really something to write home about, Regidrago's signature move is what I believe makes it worth using in OU; Dragon Energy. This move is dragon-type Eruption/Water Spout, and in combination with Dragon's Maw, it makes this mon unwallable by anything not pink, cute and cuddly. Let's see why.
II. The set + Important Calcs
Regidrago @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dragon's Maw
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dragon Energy
- Dragon Pulse
- Ancient Power
- Draco Meteor/Explosion
With max speed evs Regidrago hits 259 speed, allowing it to outspeed almost every defensive mon in the tier, including most defensive Lando-T spreads and a decent portion of slower offensive mons, up to modest Volcanion. When you consider that the meta right now favors slow and bulky teams rather than fast offensive ones, this is a nice thing to consider. Moreoever, even uninvested, its HP hits a massive 541, meaning the few defensive mons that do outspeed it such as fast rotom-wash are unable to hit it with anything powerful enough to deter it from just clicking Dragon Energy anyways. This bulk also allows it to live most unboosted hits and some boosted ones as well, effectively acting as a one-time sweep stopper if you keep it healthy through the game. Ancient Power (and Explosion) are there to hit fairies on the switch to either chip them for later or eliminate them for your team at the cost of drago's life. Draco Meteor is also an option to have a stronger stab when you're low or outsped, and even though I prefer explosion, it does nab a few . Here are some calcs to illustrate the set's power:
vs Walls/Resists:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 163-192 (46.3 - 54.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Corviknight: 259-306 (64.9 - 76.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 387-456 (54.2 - 63.8%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 339-400 (86 - 101.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 228-268 (57.8 - 68%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 174-204 (45 - 52.8%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Landorus-Therian: 459-541 (120.1 - 141.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 282-333 (92.7 - 109.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
as you can see, there is no walling this. Here are some more calcs to show how it trades vs offensive mons:
252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Smart Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regidrago: 382-450 (70.6 - 83.1%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana: 339-400 (130.8 - 154.4%)
+1 252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regidrago: 306-360 (56.5 - 66.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zeraora: 342-403 (107.8 - 127.1%)
+1 252 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regidrago: 434-512 (80.2 - 94.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 285-336 (88.2 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO through multiscale
+1 252 SpA Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Regidrago: 379-447 (70 - 82.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Blacephalon: 346-408 (140 - 165.1%)
+2252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regidrago in Grassy Terrain: 357-421 (65.9 - 77.8%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 382-451 (112 - 132.2%)
I'm not going to go through all of them but you can try it for yourself and see that it's very hard to OHKO drago, and even harder to not be OHKOd by it.
So what's wrong then ? Why is regidrago not already on every single team ? Well you already know the answer... It's because of fairy-type pokemon. Regidrago lacks any special coverage to supplement it's incredibly strong dragon stabs, making it unable to break through fairies by itself. However, this alone does not make Regidrago unusable; let's get into the details.
III. Why use Regidrago / What about Fairies ?
1) Not every team has a fairy in it. The very existence of fairy types is enough to deter a lot of pokemons (dragapult and the lati twins being the main exceptions) to run dragon-type moves at all. When was the last time you saw a garchomp or dragonite using a dragon stab ? In return, because of the disappearance of dragon-type moves, fairies are not considered a must-have like an electric or ground immunity, since all dragon sweepers rely on their secondary stabs or coverage moves to try and score KOs, or have answers that don't need to be fairy type in the case of Dragapult. And this tendency is true at every level of play, not just low ladder (althought I can't speak for top ladder, but I assume it must be the same). From what I've seen in my week of extensive testing, about 30 to 40% of teams actually don't have fairy-types at all. In these cases, Regidrago will be an extremely valuable asset, being able to score a kill essentially every single-time it's brought in.
2) Mindgames. Since regidrago is such a powerhouse, no mon in the game that isn't made of glitter and cupcakes can reliably take more than one hit from it. Because of this, everytime you bring in Regidrago, you can be almost certain than your opponent will switch out to their fairy. I found this to be easily exploitable as long as you teambuild around Regidrago and include some fairy killers in your team (in particular, I felt like Regidrago worked very well in tandem with Heatran and Banded Melmetal) which you'll be able to freely bring in on the incoming fairy. Of course your opponent will catch on to this and simply stop switching out in front of the Drago, but this creates dangerous 50/50s as they will permanently be at risk of losing a mon should they decide to stay in while the worst thing you risk is just wasting an energy on a fairy and losing a bit of momentum.
3) The power of fear and chip. Similarly to Regieleki, having a Regidrago in your team creates a climate of pressure right from team preview where your opponent will be hesitant to bring out their fairies in fear of losing them and being much much worse off against your Regidrago. This lets you use Regidrago's teammates that would normally be checked by said fairies much much easier. But there's more ! In the case of regieleki, ground-types have the benefit of being resistant to stealth rock (or in the case of Lando, immune to spikes) and are often defensive mons that run leftovers (or a recovery move in the case of Hippowdon), thus making it hard to chip them throughout the game. Out of all 5 fairies ran in OU, Fini, Alolatales and Lele lack any form of reliable recovery and are thus very vulnerable to chip, while Koko sometimes runs roost but is frail as paper and doesn't like being forced out to come out, leaving only clef as an answer that is actually hard to get rid off, but is often passive and sinks your opponent's momentum every time it's forced out by Drago. When combined with the previous point, Regidrago essentially makes your opponent's fairies less effective just by existing.
4) Safety switch. As demonstrated by earlier calcs, Regidrago is extremely hard to OHKO, and shines in the late game where it will very often trade one for one with one of your opponent's offensive mons or would be sweepers. Note that this is true whether or not they had fairies at all to begin with.
5) Teamwork. This should go without saying, but Regidrago isn't gonna be the only pokemon on your team. Yes it suffers from the presence of fairies, but so does volc from the presence of heatran and blissey, eleki from the presence of grounds, etc... You have 5 other mons to deal with Drago's fairy weakness, so people need to stop acting like this one trait makes it completely unplayable when other perfectly viable mons have similar hard counters.
BONUS: Potential teammates / Teambuilding ideas
In my testing, I've found Banded Melmetal to be one of the mons that are the most effective together with Specs Regidrago. Melm loves doubling on the Fairies that Regidrago lures in, giving it an opportunity to fire off a free band boosted-move, potentially blowing a hole in the enemy team. It's also worth noting that Drago has no trouble with Melm's common checks in the slowtwins, ferrothorn, pex and zapdos, so they naturally just work great together. Nidoking is also something to be considered, being the tier's premier offensive poison-type and fairy-killer, while also having access to either Stealth Rock or Toxic Spikes in the last slot to further increase the pressure on fairy-types and chipping them when they come in. In particular Nidoking loves clef and can come in very easily on it. Teammates that can safely bring it in, such as Teleport slowbro/king, slowturn lando/corv and the likes are also very nice and allow you to keep offensive pressure.
While Regidrago does suffer from the presence of fairies in the game, it's not a hurdle that it is impossible to overcome for it when paired with the right mons and played correctly. What's more, fairies don't completely nullify Regidrago's usefulness but simply make it a little harder to play. When considering the sheer destructive power of Dragon Energy versus everything else, I feel like it's not enough to completely disregard this mon; hence I think it deserves a rank in C, as it is DEFINITELY usable with proper support while having a few unique qualities (unmatched power and excellent bulk for a mon that deals this much damage), which is literally the definition of a C rank mon. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Below are a collection of replays that demonstrate Regidrago being used in practice.
Despite how interesting Regidrago seems, I have to disagree with this nom. There is something about Eleki that you seem to be missing that Drago doesn’t have, utility. The reason Eleki rose is cause people realized you don’t have to eliminate grounds for it to do anything. Thats because of spin and its insane speed tier. Because of its ability to force switches, Eleki can spin and get rid of hazards. Its 200 bases speed outruns even shit like Scarf Kartana. Drago has insanely high dmg dragon moves, but it offers no defensive utility, especially since it wants to remain as healthy as possible which due to how well most rockers deal with defoggers, it is easier said than done. Its biggest issue is opportunity cost but I’ll go over that in the end cuz this is gonna be a long one.
1: Weird how you said “When was the last time you saw a garchomp or dragonite using a dragon stab?” despite Scale Shot Chomp being one of the scariest sweepers in the tier. Dnite doesn’t run Dragon Moves since it now has actual flying STAB and it wants to hit both Lando and Tran.
3: By saying “leaving only clef as an answer that is actually hard to get rid off, but is often passive and sinks your opponent's momentum every time it's forced out by Drago.” You are underestimating what Clef is capable of in a game. Clef can cripple the whole tier with para or, Trick Barb, or Knock, CM Clef is an incredibly threatening wincon that will be a pain for teams lacking Glowking or Melm. Even when it can’t get a sweep going, it can threaten stuff like Tran with Thunder paralysis and 1v1 it. It certainly isn’t passive. While fairies are not on every team, Koko and Clef have been rising in usage. Koko due to its ability to check Zapdos while bringing in dangerous threats. Clef has a shit ton of utility that makes it incredibly splashable while keeping Dnite and Buzz in check. The biggest reason though is Beat Up Weav forcing teams to run dark resists, which usually leads to Clef/Koko/Fini being slapped onto teams.
5: The difference between Volcarona and Regidrago is that Blissey is much less common and Tran doesn’t always run Flash Fire these days. It also offers defensive utility by threatening Buzz, Kart, or Weavile with burns in via Flame Body. So even in games where it can’t sweep it can do other things. Drago doesn’t have this luxury like I said earlier.
Yes, Regidrago is bulky and hits like a truck, but you got to remember what you are giving up when using it. You trade using a special wallbreaker like
-Lele who’s counters are shit Rachi or Shed who is reserved for stall.
-Volcanion who can also serve as a check to rain, Tran, and Fini.
-Zapdos who checks Torn, Kart while inflicting para via Static and has longevity via Roost
-Blace who smacks the entire tier with 2HKOs bar Ttar who has no recovery and Bliss or Pex who just get Trick’d.
You trade a slot that could go to these fantastic breakers for a mon with no defensive utility that is completely blanked by fairies and needs heavy support.
Drago isn’t even a terrible mon, but just because it isn’t bad doesn’t mean it is worth building a team on for serious play. It takes way too much support and plays to make work that could be circumvented by using a breaker like Lele who can deliver consistent results, which is something you always want on a mon. Its not because of fairies that Drago isn’t good, its because there is much better breakers in the tier that could offer much more on a team. Hell, you even got Dragapult who outspeeds 98% of the unboosted metagame, can U-Turn out in games where it has a hard time breaking through things, is threatening enough on its own with SBall SpD Drops, and it can take a Surging Strike or Scald from Urshifu or the Slowtwins when it needs to.
As for the replays, I only focused on the games with fairies but they aren’t convincing enough to make Drago seem like a fringe choice.
1: Opponent did not click soft-boiled for some reason even thoughTran was revealed to not have Taunt. Even if Melm came in, Pult was going to clean up anyways.
2: Drago did not do anything in this game. All the work was mostly from Bro and Melm.
3: Dude sacked Lele turn 1 for no reason.
4: Tran 6-0s this whole stall lmao. You don’t even need Regidrago for this game.
5: Wtf was that Dragonite. Ice Punch, EQ, Toxic? I doubt you will ever see that shit in tours. Also no one should be switching directly into Zone vs Melm.
6: Ah yes. The meta defining Drapion, Vanilluxe, and Slurpuff.
7: Using Hypnosis in Electric Terrain. K then.
Generally, these replays depict people sacking their fairies way too early or for no reason, and sets/mons that you would never see in a serious game. Oh and just cause you have success with a mon in ladder doesn’t mean it is viable in tours. If you can reach high ladder with fucking Boltund, then anything is plausible.
Despite how interesting Regidrago seems, I have to disagree with this nom. There is something about Eleki that you seem to be missing that Drago doesn’t have, utility. The reason Eleki rose is cause people realized you don’t have to eliminate grounds for it to do anything. Thats because of spin and its insane speed tier. Because of its ability to force switches, Eleki can spin and get rid of hazards. Its 200 bases speed outruns even shit like Scarf Kartana. Drago has insanely high dmg dragon moves, but it offers no defensive utility, especially since it wants to remain as healthy as possible which due to how well most rockers deal with defoggers, it is easier said than done. Its biggest issue is opportunity cost but I’ll go over that in the end cuz this is gonna be a long one.
1: Weird how you said “When was the last time you saw a garchomp or dragonite using a dragon stab?” despite Scale Shot Chomp being one of the scariest sweepers in the tier. Dnite doesn’t run Dragon Moves since it now has actual flying STAB and it wants to hit both Lando and Tran.
3: By saying “leaving only clef as an answer that is actually hard to get rid off, but is often passive and sinks your opponent's momentum every time it's forced out by Drago.” You are underestimating what Clef is capable of in a game. Clef can cripple the whole tier with para or, Trick Barb, or Knock, CM Clef is an incredibly threatening wincon that will be a pain for teams lacking Glowking or Melm. Even when it can’t get a sweep going, it can threaten stuff like Tran with Thunder paralysis and 1v1 it. It certainly isn’t passive. While fairies are not on every team, Koko and Clef have been rising in usage. Koko due to its ability to check Zapdos while bringing in dangerous threats. Clef has a shit ton of utility that makes it incredibly splashable while keeping Dnite and Buzz in check. The biggest reason though is Beat Up Weav forcing teams to run dark resists, which usually leads to Clef/Koko/Fini being slapped onto teams.
5: The difference between Volcarona and Regidrago is that Blissey is much less common and Tran doesn’t always run Flash Fire these days. It also offers defensive utility by threatening Buzz, Kart, or Weavile with burns in via Flame Body. So even in games where it can’t sweep it can do other things. Drago doesn’t have this luxury like I said earlier.
Yes, Regidrago is bulky and hits like a truck, but you got to remember what you are giving up when using it. You trade using a special wallbreaker like
-Lele who’s counters are shit Rachi or Shed who is reserved for stall.
-Volcanion who can also serve as a check to rain, Tran, and Fini.
-Zapdos who checks Torn, Kart while inflicting para via Static and has longevity via Roost
-Blace who smacks the entire tier with 2HKOs bar Ttar who has no recovery and Bliss or Pex who just get Trick’d.
You trade a slot that could go to these fantastic breakers for a mon with no defensive utility that is completely blanked by fairies and needs heavy support.
Drago isn’t even a terrible mon, but just because it isn’t bad doesn’t mean it is worth building a team on for serious play. It takes way too much support and plays to make work that could be circumcised by using a breaker like Lele who can deliver consistent results, which is something you always want on a mon. Its not because of fairies that Drago isn’t good, its because there is much better breakers in the tier that could offer much more on a team. Hell, you even got Dragapult who outspeeds 98% of the unboosted metagame, can U-Turn out in games where it has a hard time breaking through things, is threatening enough on its own with SBall SpD Drops, and it can take a Surging Strike or Scald from Urshifu or the Slowtwins when it needs to.
As for the replays, I only focused on the games with fairies but they aren’t convincing enough to make Drago seem like a fringe choice.
1: Opponent did not click soft-boiled for some reason even thoughTran was revealed to not have Taunt. Even if Melm came in, Pult was going to clean up anyways.
2: Drago did not do anything in this game. All the work was mostly from Bro and Melm.
3: Dude sacked Lele turn 1 for no reason.
4: Tran 6-0s this whole stall lmao. You don’t even need Regidrago for this game.
5: Wtf was that Dragonite. Ice Punch, EQ, Toxic? I doubt you will ever see that shit in tours. Also no one should be switching directly into Zone vs Melm.
6: Ah yes. The meta defining Drapion, Vanilluxe, and Slurpuff.
7: Using Hypnosis in Electric Terrain. K then.
Generally, these replays depict people sacking their fairies way too early or for no reason, and sets/mons that you would never see in a serious game. Oh and just cause you have success with a mon in ladder doesn’t mean it is viable in tours. If you can reach high ladder with fucking Boltund, then anything is plausible.
I agree with basically every point you'd made but I do think that the wording is needlessly aggressive and kind of mean for a simple nomination that you disagree with. Furthermore, yeah, if I wanted to use a mon with dragon stab I'd just use Garchomp because it's an incredibly threatening wincon and even has real defensive utility
Despite how interesting Regidrago seems, I have to disagree with this nom. There is something about Eleki that you seem to be missing that Drago doesn’t have, utility. The reason Eleki rose is cause people realized you don’t have to eliminate grounds for it to do anything. Thats because of spin and its insane speed tier. Because of its ability to force switches, Eleki can spin and get rid of hazards. Its 200 bases speed outruns even shit like Scarf Kartana. Drago has insanely high dmg dragon moves, but it offers no defensive utility, especially since it wants to remain as healthy as possible which due to how well most rockers deal with defoggers, it is easier said than done. Its biggest issue is opportunity cost but I’ll go over that in the end cuz this is gonna be a long one.
1: Weird how you said “When was the last time you saw a garchomp or dragonite using a dragon stab?” despite Scale Shot Chomp being one of the scariest sweepers in the tier. Dnite doesn’t run Dragon Moves since it now has actual flying STAB and it wants to hit both Lando and Tran.
3: By saying “leaving only clef as an answer that is actually hard to get rid off, but is often passive and sinks your opponent's momentum every time it's forced out by Drago.” You are underestimating what Clef is capable of in a game. Clef can cripple the whole tier with para or, Trick Barb, or Knock, CM Clef is an incredibly threatening wincon that will be a pain for teams lacking Glowking or Melm. Even when it can’t get a sweep going, it can threaten stuff like Tran with Thunder paralysis and 1v1 it. It certainly isn’t passive. While fairies are not on every team, Koko and Clef have been rising in usage. Koko due to its ability to check Zapdos while bringing in dangerous threats. Clef has a shit ton of utility that makes it incredibly splashable while keeping Dnite and Buzz in check. The biggest reason though is Beat Up Weav forcing teams to run dark resists, which usually leads to Clef/Koko/Fini being slapped onto teams.
5: The difference between Volcarona and Regidrago is that Blissey is much less common and Tran doesn’t always run Flash Fire these days. It also offers defensive utility by threatening Buzz, Kart, or Weavile with burns in via Flame Body. So even in games where it can’t sweep it can do other things. Drago doesn’t have this luxury like I said earlier.
Yes, Regidrago is bulky and hits like a truck, but you got to remember what you are giving up when using it. You trade using a special wallbreaker like
-Lele who’s counters are shit Rachi or Shed who is reserved for stall.
-Volcanion who can also serve as a check to rain, Tran, and Fini.
-Zapdos who checks Torn, Kart while inflicting para via Static and has longevity via Roost
-Blace who smacks the entire tier with 2HKOs bar Ttar who has no recovery and Bliss or Pex who just get Trick’d.
You trade a slot that could go to these fantastic breakers for a mon with no defensive utility that is completely blanked by fairies and needs heavy support.
Drago isn’t even a terrible mon, but just because it isn’t bad doesn’t mean it is worth building a team on for serious play. It takes way too much support and plays to make work that could be circumcised by using a breaker like Lele who can deliver consistent results, which is something you always want on a mon. Its not because of fairies that Drago isn’t good, its because there is much better breakers in the tier that could offer much more on a team. Hell, you even got Dragapult who outspeeds 98% of the unboosted metagame, can U-Turn out in games where it has a hard time breaking through things, is threatening enough on its own with SBall SpD Drops, and it can take a Surging Strike or Scald from Urshifu or the Slowtwins when it needs to.
As for the replays, I only focused on the games with fairies but they aren’t convincing enough to make Drago seem like a fringe choice.
1: Opponent did not click soft-boiled for some reason even thoughTran was revealed to not have Taunt. Even if Melm came in, Pult was going to clean up anyways.
2: Drago did not do anything in this game. All the work was mostly from Bro and Melm.
3: Dude sacked Lele turn 1 for no reason.
4: Tran 6-0s this whole stall lmao. You don’t even need Regidrago for this game.
5: Wtf was that Dragonite. Ice Punch, EQ, Toxic? I doubt you will ever see that shit in tours. Also no one should be switching directly into Zone vs Melm.
6: Ah yes. The meta defining Drapion, Vanilluxe, and Slurpuff.
7: Using Hypnosis in Electric Terrain. K then.
Generally, these replays depict people sacking their fairies way too early or for no reason, and sets/mons that you would never see in a serious game. Oh and just cause you have success with a mon in ladder doesn’t mean it is viable in tours. If you can reach high ladder with fucking Boltund, then anything is plausible.
I would agree with most of these points, including some of the replays. Regidrago tends to be pretty meh in most matchups, and in those situations you would rather have another breaker. This isn't discounting how strong Regidrago is, however. Although, I would second the aggressive wordage. Nothing warranted a harsh response, and the poster made that nomination with common courtesy. I have no place to say that it was intentionally so attacking, but it should be adjusted appropriately for next time.
I too would suggest that you don't get circumcised using Regidrago.
Just pointing out that the dude is nominating Regidrago to C Rank, not to S Rank. Of course the Mon has huge flaws, but I don,t think its worse than Keldeo (needs very weird sets to get past Pex, consistently loses to Slow, has 5 weaknesses, easy to revenge kill, etc., this Mon is straight up terrible lol), Toxtricity (very frail and needs to predict a lot to do actual damage), Conkeldurr (dies quickly and needs a lot of support to get to the field and do damage), Alolan Marowak (only really viable in TR, needing some fringe viability Mons to function, most vulnerable to Knock-Off Mon in the game), Glastrier (same, though I have seen this one outside of TR) or even Shedinja (with support, Sheddy is actually good on specific teams, but its gimmick level is still very similar to Regidrago one, and it can,t have Sash, Boots and Googles at once).
I have used Regidrago in the past by pairing it with Doom Desire Jirachi. Its not good, but its viable enough to be used if you know what you are doing.
I want to apologize if I was being too harsh and pretentious here. I also written way more than I needed to for a C rank nom. Its a habit I have where I would write unnecessarily long essays as responses.
TL;DR
Drago faces heavy competition from more consistent breakers like Lele, Volc, and Blace. It requires too much support for a breaker, lacks defensive utility, and ofc, stonewalled by fairies. With Koko and Clef rising in usage as a chain effect of Beat Up Weav, Zap, and Buzzwole’s presence, this is obviously very bad for it.
Eeveeto has a point tho. Drago isn’t that much better than stuff like Alowak or Toxtricity. That being said, imo a couple of C rank mons should get UR since most of their niches are in the realm of theory and have not made any notable appearences in any big tours, but I’m saving that discussion for another time. Especially with WCOP coming up.
Remember when we used to think regieleki was entirely worthless because of it's inability to hit ground types effectively ? It took some time for minds to change and realize he actually had some merit, because of it's unsurpassed speed and access to rapid spin, as well as it's ability to put huge pressure on electric immune mons just by existing in the team preview, as losing them would mean almost certain death at the hands of electro kid. Just like we did for eleki, I think it's time to start considering the other (much cooler) newborn member of the regi family for OU...
Now hold on just a second before reacting to this post with a "haha" emoji and moving on. This is not a joke, this is not a meme, I'm being fully serious here; I have played over 200 games, testing Regidrago amongside various teams on the ladder over the past weeks and I genuinely believe it has some competitive merit. I'm not saying it's the next big thing, or even a really good mon, but just like a lot of other C-rankers, it has a few unique characteristics that can allow it to shine under the right circumstances. So what are those characteristics exactly, you might ask ? Let's get into it.
I. What the heck is a 'Regidrago' ?
Let's start with the basics; As the mon is currently NUBL, it wouldn't be a surprise if you weren't exactly familiar with what it does. Regidrago is a dragon-type pokemon with a stat distribution of 200/100/50/100/50/80 and the ability Dragon's Maw, which powers-up dragon-type moves it uses by 50%. So it's just a slow but bulky regieleki then ? Not exactly. Where regieleki's signature move Thunder Cage isn't really something to write home about, Regidrago's signature move is what I believe makes it worth using in OU; Dragon Energy. This move is dragon-type Eruption/Water Spout, and in combination with Dragon's Maw, it makes this mon unwallable by anything not pink, cute and cuddly. Let's see why.
II. The set + Important Calcs
Regidrago @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dragon's Maw
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dragon Energy
- Dragon Pulse
- Ancient Power
- Draco Meteor/Explosion
With max speed evs Regidrago hits 259 speed, allowing it to outspeed almost every defensive mon in the tier, including most defensive Lando-T spreads and a decent portion of slower offensive mons, up to modest Volcanion. When you consider that the meta right now favors slow and bulky teams rather than fast offensive ones, this isn't so bad. Moreoever, even uninvested, its HP hits a massive 541, meaning the few defensive mons that do outspeed it such as fast rotom-wash are unable to hit it with anything powerful enough to deter it from just clicking Dragon Energy anyways. This bulk also allows it to live most unboosted hits and some boosted ones as well, effectively acting as a one-time sweep stopper if you keep it healthy through the game. Ancient Power (and Explosion) are there to hit fairies on the switch to either chip them for later or eliminate them for your team at the cost of drago's life. Draco Meteor is also an option to have a stronger stab when you're low or outsped, and even though I prefer explosion, it does nab a few OHKOs that pulse fails to guarantee, such as dnite through multiscale or Nihilego. Here are some calcs to illustrate the set's power:
vs Walls/Resists:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 163-192 (46.3 - 54.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Corviknight: 259-306 (64.9 - 76.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 387-456 (54.2 - 63.8%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 339-400 (86 - 101.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 228-268 (57.8 - 68%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 174-204 (45 - 52.8%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Landorus-Therian: 459-541 (120.1 - 141.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 282-333 (92.7 - 109.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
as you can see, there is no walling this. Here are some more calcs to show how it trades vs offensive mons:
252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Smart Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regidrago: 382-450 (70.6 - 83.1%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana: 339-400 (130.8 - 154.4%)
+1 252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regidrago: 306-360 (56.5 - 66.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zeraora: 342-403 (107.8 - 127.1%)
+1 252 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regidrago: 434-512 (80.2 - 94.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 285-336 (88.2 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO through multiscale
+1 252 SpA Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Regidrago: 379-447 (70 - 82.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Blacephalon: 346-408 (140 - 165.1%)
+2252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regidrago in Grassy Terrain: 357-421 (65.9 - 77.8%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 382-451 (112 - 132.2%)
I'm not going to go through all of them but you can try it for yourself and see that it's very hard to OHKO drago, and even harder to not be OHKOd by it.
So what's wrong then ? Why is regidrago not already on every single team ? Well you already know the answer... It's because of fairy-type pokemon. Regidrago lacks any special coverage to supplement it's incredibly strong dragon stabs, making it unable to break through fairies by itself. However, this alone does not make Regidrago unusable; let's get into the details.
III. Why use Regidrago / What about Fairies ?
1) Not every team has a fairy in it. The very existence of fairy types is enough to deter a lot of pokemons (dragapult and the lati twins being the main exceptions) to run dragon-type moves at all. When was the last time you saw a garchomp or dragonite using a dragon stab ? In return, because of the disappearance of dragon-type moves, fairies are not considered a must-have like an electric or ground immunity, since all dragon sweepers rely on their secondary stabs or coverage moves to try and score KOs, or have answers that don't need to be fairy type in the case of Dragapult. And this tendency is true at every level of play, not just low ladder (althought I can't speak for top ladder, but I assume it must be the same). From what I've seen in my week of extensive testing, about 30 to 40% of teams actually don't have fairy-types at all. In these cases, Regidrago will be an extremely valuable asset, being able to score a kill essentially every single-time it's brought in.
2) Mindgames. Since regidrago is such a powerhouse, no mon in the game that isn't made of glitter and cupcakes can reliably take more than one hit from it. Because of this, everytime you bring in Regidrago, you can be almost certain than your opponent will switch out to their fairy. I found this to be easily exploitable as long as you teambuild around Regidrago and include some fairy killers in your team (in particular, I felt like Regidrago worked very well in tandem with Heatran and Banded Melmetal) which you'll be able to freely bring in on the incoming fairy. Of course your opponent will catch on to this and simply stop switching out in front of the Drago, but this creates dangerous 50/50s as they will permanently be at risk of losing a mon should they decide to stay in while the worst thing you risk is just wasting an energy on a fairy and losing a bit of momentum.
3) The power of fear and chip. Similarly to Regieleki, having a Regidrago in your team creates a climate of pressure right from team preview where your opponent will be hesitant to bring out their fairies in fear of losing them and being much much worse off against your Regidrago. This lets you use Regidrago's teammates that would normally be checked by said fairies much much easier. But there's more ! In the case of regieleki, ground-types have the benefit of being resistant to stealth rock (or in the case of Lando, immune to spikes) and are often defensive mons that run leftovers (or a recovery move in the case of Hippowdon), thus making it hard to chip them throughout the game. Out of all 5 fairies ran in OU, Fini, Alolatales and Lele lack any form of reliable recovery and are thus very vulnerable to chip, while Koko sometimes runs roost but is frail as paper and doesn't like being forced out to come out, leaving only clef as an answer that is actually hard to get rid off, but is often passive and sinks your opponent's momentum every time it's forced out by Drago. When combined with the previous point, Regidrago essentially makes your opponent's fairies less effective just by existing.
4) Safety switch. As demonstrated by earlier calcs, Regidrago is extremely hard to OHKO, and shines in the late game where it will very often trade one for one with one of your opponent's offensive mons or would be sweepers. Note that this is true whether or not they had fairies at all to begin with.
5) Teamwork. This should go without saying, but Regidrago isn't gonna be the only pokemon on your team. Yes it suffers from the presence of fairies, but so does volc from the presence of heatran and blissey, eleki from the presence of grounds, etc... You have 5 other mons to deal with Drago's fairy weakness, so people need to stop acting like this one trait makes it completely unplayable when other perfectly viable mons have similar hard counters.
BONUS: Potential teammates / Teambuilding ideas
In my testing, I've found Banded Melmetal to be one of the mons that are the most effective together with Specs Regidrago. Melm loves doubling on the Fairies that Regidrago lures in, giving it an opportunity to fire off a free band boosted-move, potentially blowing a hole in the enemy team. It's also worth noting that Drago has no trouble with Melm's common checks in the slowtwins, ferrothorn, pex and zapdos, so they naturally just work great together. Nidoking is also something to be considered, being the tier's premier offensive poison-type and fairy-killer, while also having access to either Stealth Rock or Toxic Spikes in the last slot to further increase the pressure on fairy-types and chipping them when they come in. In particular Nidoking loves clef and can come in very easily on it. Teammates that can safely bring it in, such as Teleport slowbro/king, slowturn lando/corv and the likes are also very nice and allow you to keep offensive pressure.
While Regidrago does suffer from the presence of fairies in the game, it's not a hurdle that it is impossible to overcome for it when paired with the right mons and played correctly. What's more, fairies don't completely nullify Regidrago's usefulness but simply make it a little harder to play. When considering the sheer destructive power of Dragon Energy versus everything else, I feel like it's not enough to completely disregard this mon; hence I think it deserves a rank in C, as it is DEFINITELY usable with proper support while having a few unique qualities (unmatched power and excellent bulk for a mon that deals this much damage), which is literally the definition of a C rank mon. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Below are a collection of replays that demonstrate Regidrago being used in practice.
Yes, that's true, but as explained in my initial post, fairies are not as omnipresent as ground types are in teambuilding, and Drago can be useful even when fairies are still alive, by forcing the fairies in, creating pressure, and forcing 50/50s. For example in this replay where I take advantage of the extremely predictable clef switchin drago creates, or in this replay (on turn 5 and 6) where I predict them to go back out to their crawdaunt immediately to not let heatran in (as they did something similar turn 1) and nab the kill by staying in and clicking energy again. This was already explained in the nom post, but it's clearer when directly accompanied by gameplay so I reexplained it while making sure to have the replays right next so you can really see what I mean concretely, and not just in theory.
And because of it's ability to force switches, Drago can put you in a favorable position with the correct prediction (as shown above). At first it seems harder than just clicking spin, until you consider that you have to risk the opponent predicting Eleki's spin and instantly KOing it with about anything through it's paper frail 80/50/50 bulk. But the point of my post isn't to draw a comparison between Drago and Eleki as I believe they have very different roles, one being a breaker and the other a late game sweeper+hazard removal.
Drago has insanely high dmg dragon moves, but it offers no defensive utility, especially since it wants to remain as healthy as possible which due to how well most rockers deal with defoggers, it is easier said than done.
That much is true, with possible exceptions of being able to switch in on something like Volcanion once or twice in a pinch due to dragon's typing useful resistances.
Weird how you said “When was the last time you saw a garchomp or dragonite using a dragon stab?” despite Scale Shot Chomp being one of the scariest sweepers in the tier.
Scale shot is kind of a weird one. The reason it's good and used even though it's dragon-type is because it increases speed; Most SD chomps will just use Scale Shot only once to raise their speed before sweeping with eq and their coverage move (aqua tail, edge, etc) unless its sd + rocks. But ultimately, the point I was trying to make in this paragraph was just to note that the once dangerous Outrage users like scarf Chomp or Mence have completely disappeared, making it so fairies are no longer mandatory. I believe that point still stands despite me forgetting to mention scale shot, as evidenced by the fact that only a little above half of teams on the ladders actually have a fairy.
By saying “leaving only clef as an answer that is actually hard to get rid off, but is often passive and sinks your opponent's momentum every time it's forced out by Drago.” You are underestimating what Clef is capable of in a game. Clef can cripple the whole tier with para or, Trick Barb, or Knock, CM Clef is an incredibly threatening wincon that will be a pain for teams lacking Glowking or Melm. Even when it can’t get a sweep going, it can threaten stuff like Tran with Thunder paralysis and 1v1 it. It certainly isn’t passive.
Maybe calling clef outright passive was a little exaggerated; yes it has a wide array of sets and annoying options that greatly cripple teams, but letting clef in for free is usually not as bad as letting in, say, lele (which gets worn by hazards, unlike clef), which was the point I was trying to get at. Letting clef switch in freely is usually not game losing. CM clef does exist of course but it remains rarer than defensive variants. The point I was trying to make overall is that Regidrago can easily force switches, that those switches can be exploited, and the mindgames resulting from exploiting those switches can also be exploited itself while not risking too much on your end.
The difference between Volcarona and Regidrago is that Blissey is much less common and Tran doesn’t always run Flash Fire these days. It also offers defensive utility by threatening Buzz, Kart, or Weavile with burns in via Flame Body. So even in games where it can’t sweep it can do other things. Drago doesn’t have this luxury like I said earlier.
Just like Heatran doesn't always run flash fire and Blissey isn't so common anymore, not every team has fairies. I think this is a pretty fair comparison in this aspect. It's definitely true that Regidrago has very poor defensive utility and less versatility than Volc though, but it's good at what it does : Breaking through every defensive core effortlessly once fairies are out.
These mons all have some trouble breaking past mons like blissey (not lele thoguh), or any combination of ferro pex tran and/or gking. If you dislike the idea of having to play around these extremely annoying defensive cores by having to make aggressive predictions which will let them get in hazards, status or fsight if predicted incorrectly, Drago skips that altogether and puts massive pressure on these kinds of teams, which makes me believe you could justify using Drago over them in some cases. While I do understand these are overall more consistent and have additional utility (thus why I'm only nomming Drago for the C-rank, which is filled to the brim with mons that have even more drawbacks), they also have drawbacks of their own that Regidrago does not have:
-Blace is paper-frail and cannot come in on anything, even resisted-moves. If drago has no defensive utility, this has negative defensive utility. Along with Volcanion, it also gets easily chipped if it's choiced, and loses significant breaking power when using HDB.
-Volc stacks weaknesses against common offensive types electric, ground and rock and thus inflicts some building restrictions on its team if you don't want it to be unbalanced weaknesses-wise.
-Offensive Zapdos's spatk pales in comparison to most other breakers and it has to rely on a 70% accurate move to compensate for this, which is somewhat of a liability. It's great defensive typing and ability are also somewhat wasted on an offensive set, and it becomes significantly less effective at checking kart or torn once it has been knocked off by it on the switch.
-Lele is easily the best special breaker of the tier rn, but it does suffer a few drawbacks of requiring to make the right prediction to actually break past defensive cores and relying on a 70% accurate move to actually kill heatran in particular.
Again, not saying Regidrago is flat out better than these or anything, but these are things to consider when comparing them.
Drago isn’t even a terrible mon, but just because it isn’t bad doesn’t mean it is worth building a team on for serious play. It takes way too much support and plays to make work that could be circumvented by using a breaker like Lele who can deliver consistent results, which is something you always want on a mon. Its not because of fairies that Drago isn’t good, its because there is much better breakers in the tier that could offer much more on a team.
Regidrago is extremely consistent in the absence of fairies, moreso than any other breaker. I do feel like this particular claim of Drago's downfall not being the existence of fairies to be kind off preposterous, especially when considering the calcs shown earlier or the replays vs no-fairy teams (which again, are not all that rare). While it does require a good amount of team support to be able to deal with the aforementioned fairies, the mons you want to run it with are mons such as Melm, Heatran or Nidoking which are very good on their own and playing Drago doesn't force you to play gimmicky/mu fish based teams like all the TR or Sun mons do (which by definition require HEAPS more support than Drago does, requiring an entire dedicated team to even function), and they're still ranked at C right now.
Hell, you even got Dragapult who outspeeds 98% of the unboosted metagame, can U-Turn out in games where it has a hard time breaking through things, is threatening enough on its own with SBall SpD Drops, and it can take a Surging Strike or Scald from Urshifu or the Slowtwins when it needs to.
Dragapult suffers from its own issues, such as being hardwalled by pex to hell and back or having trouble to OHKO pretty much anything without using Draco Meteor, which then leaves it ready to be set up on. No breaker is perfect, so you shouldn't expect Drago to be, especially when considering that I'm just saying it deserves a spot in C-rank. Also the things about Urshifu and the twins, and water attacks in general also apply very well to Drago, which can even tank non-banded CC from shifu relatively comfortably in a pinch : 252 Atk Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regidrago: 340-402 (62.8 - 74.3%)
I feel like that's kind of a mistake, as part of Drago's appeal IS the favorable matchup vs no-fairy teams.
Not gonna go over all opp's misplays as you're probably right on that part, but I feel like it's possible to get an idea of what a mon can do in practice, and the way I was trying to play it to bring out it's advantages, even when not looking at absolute top-level replays.
I feel like I've addressed all the points I felt were unfair. Now it's up to you to decide if you still believe Regidrago has a niche or not, but I think I made a pretty good case of what it's upsides are.
Also concerning concerns of hostility, personally I didn't really notice it, but it's still nice to see that everyone in the thread is trying to keep discussion civil and enjoyable for everyone. Thanks a lot to all the people speaking up in these kinds of situations, you're all great :)
Oh lol I somehow forgot about this, but yeah doom desire rachi is definitely an amazing partner for drago, although it's definitely more of a gimmicky partner that's very reliant on Drago to do much, unlike other partners I originally mentioned that are able to pull their own weight.
While it does require a good amount of team support to be able to deal with the aforementioned fairies, the mons you want to run it with are mons such as Melm, Heatran or Nidoking which are very good on their own and playing Drago doesn't force you to play gimmicky/mu fish based teams like all the TR or Sun mons do (which by definition require HEAPS more support than Drago does, requiring an entire dedicated team to even function), and they're still ranked at C right now
That's right I'm back. And I am here to propose dropping r-wash from A- to B. Rotom wash is very mid, it can function as a pivot but many things can do that. I don't think this pokemon is bad, it has a decent amount of uses, I just don't think it belongs with Victini, Volcanion, Buzzwole, Blacephalon etc.
That's right I'm back. And I am here to propose dropping r-wash from A- to B. Rotom wash is very mid, it can function as a pivot but many things can do that. I don't think this pokemon is bad, it has a decent amount of uses, I just don't think it belongs with Victini, Volcanion, Buzzwole, Blacephalon etc.
I would have to disagree with the drop, at least all the way to B instead of B+. Rotom-w has been great for me as an anti-lead whether its pivoting out of unideal match ups, threatening to hit hard with hydro pump, or using status moves like twave and WoW to neuter a threat. It's typing+ability along with its solid bulk help it in that regard along with being able to switch in really well along with being pretty splashable.
That's right I'm back. And I am here to propose dropping r-wash from A- to B. Rotom wash is very mid, it can function as a pivot but many things can do that. I don't think this pokemon is bad, it has a decent amount of uses, I just don't think it belongs with Victini, Volcanion, Buzzwole, Blacephalon etc.
Aside from this being a total goof, the reasoning for it dropping should be a little more complex than "Rotom-W can pivot but so can half the things in this tier so what's the big deal," because that is extremely vague. You should be asking questions like "what does it have over other things with a similar role?", and "how does it currently perform?", rather than primarily using a side-by-side reference with other members of a subrank which are nowhere near comparable to Rotom-W in their qualities, aside from perhaps being trend related.
That's right I'm back. And I am here to propose dropping r-wash from A- to B. Rotom wash is very mid, it can function as a pivot but many things can do that. I don't think this pokemon is bad, it has a decent amount of uses, I just don't think it belongs with Victini, Volcanion, Buzzwole, Blacephalon etc.
Rotom-Wash is pretty solid rn I think, it checks several metagame defining mons at the moment such as Heatran, Tornadus, and Lando-T, checks a lot of rain Threats, and it can even has NP as an option to reduce passivity, in addition to just generally being annoying to play against due to it's status moves and ability to softly blanket check a lot of threats .
Just gonna drop one last post on the subject of Drago, this time about Fairy-type usage in OU. Since smogon has data about online battles readily available, I decided to figure out just how likely you were to run into fairyless teams (and thus get a very favorable mu for Regidrago) instead of just saying numbers based on my own estimations over my 250 games on the ladder.
According to the march stats for 1825+ elo battles which can be found here, and the same month stats for movesets and teammates pairing which can be found here, 15% of teams have a clef, 6.5% have alolan ninetales, 13% have tapu fini, 14% have tapu lele and 2.5% have tapu bulu. From there, the % of teams that have at least one fairy can be calculated as follows : clef teams + atales teams + fini teams + lele teams + bulu teams - (sum of all teams that have 2 or more of these so we don't count them twice).
Figuring out the number of teams that run more than one fairy is a little more complicated. From the teammates data, we can already get the following exact usage numbers: we know that 17% of teams that run clef also run koko, 15% of teams that run fini also run lele, and 16% of teams that run tapu bulu also run alolatales. From this we can already substract the following from our grand total : 0.15(clef usage)*0.17(%of clef teams that also have koko), 0.13(fini usage)*0.15(%of fini teams that also run lele) and 0.025(bulu usage)*0.16(%of bulu teams that also have atales).
Sadly the teammates data only show mons with 15% or more conjoined usage, so for all the remaining pairings (clef X lele, etc...), we'll simply use an estimation based on raw usage stat. If 15% of teams have a clefable and 14% of teams have lele, a somewhat good estimate for the number of teams that have both clef and lele is 0.15*0.14 = 0.021, which is 2.1%. This is not an exact estimate and there are bound to be outliers (such as the bulu X atales pairing demonstrates), but considering the number of samples that the smogon database has, it shouldn't be too far from the real thing.
Because calculating every pairing in this way is mind-numbing and also adds a lot of room for human error, I instead used a very simple python script (which i screened for you here so you can see for yourself that I didn't make any mistake here) to calculate the total number of teams that are running at least one fairy type, based on the math I just explained above. Note that I didn't take triple-fairy or above teams into account because I figured that realistically there isn't a significative amount of them being ran. The final result the script gave was exactly 0.4979000000000002, which rounds out to about 49.8%.
However this estimate is likely at least a little bit skewed, but we can reduce this imprecision by considering the opposite estimate, in which we consider that 0 teams run any more of one of these mons except the pairings that explicitly appear in the teammates files, which gives us a higher bound of 64.1% of fairy-type usage at maximum. The real number is likelysomewhere in between these two estimates, although I expect it to be closer to 50% than 64% because clef + one tapu or double tapu are extremely common pairings (I really wish the teammates file was more precise lol).
In the end, this means that by running Regidrago on your team (above 1825 elo), you can expect a little under half of matches you get to have an extremely favorable matchup for you, as Regidrago will easily destroy defensive cores of fairy-less teams, and will still trade with 1 (and sometimes 2) mon(s) every game even against hyper offense because of its natural bulk. I feel like this gives a little more of mathematical incentive to run the mon.
Have a nice day everyone. (Also wanna reiterate that Doom Desire Jirachi is something fun to consider with Specs Regidrago, but the other proposed pairings of melm, tran, nido and general fairy killers are much much more viable and that i'm not at all basing myself on the idea of using rachi when I claim drago has some viability, or even remotely suggesting that running the two together is necessary. Just saying this because someone on the OU room today thought that's what I was saying so I felt like maybe it needed clarifying.)
Chansey
Nidoking is scary as hell. You pretty much know how effective he'll be from the team preview and if you've scouted out how your opponent likes to switch he just blows chunks in Bliss/Chans-less teams. HO/Rain/Sun can generally outspeed or prevent a switch-in quite well, but against Bulky Offence he's generally eating good. He strikes me as a A- rank in the current metagame, as he needs capable hands and pivot support to really shine.
Magnezone A -> A-
Volcarona A -> A-
Jirachi B- -> C+ (maybe C)
