Weeeell tecnically they got new forms and i believe their signature moves actually got buffed in arceus, but it's to be seen if these changes make it to SV and even if they would matter in first place.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
I remember the first time I found Nihilego in Pokemon Sun's storyline, it was a great experience. It was the first time in years a Pokemon game made me feel like there was a mystery to be solved. What is this thing, what type is it, how do I beat it, etc. It made a great impact in my experience with Gen 7 and that might be why I like it more than many people on the Internet seem to. Hell I could even forgive the handholding in Gen 7 simply because the story has a lot of moments and situations that evoke that same feeling of "this is interesting/mysterious".
As for unpopular opinions, I don't think I've ever seen anyone say this, but: I hate the bike theme, as a concept. In general I think Pokemon games have great soundtracks, but the bike theme seems to be a constant flop. The only ones I can remember somewhat fondly are RSE and BW/BW2's bike themes and even then I think they're "fine" as opposed to "good" tracks. I hate that a lot of great tracks are interrupted by the bike theme unless I try my hardest to change my map location as fast as possible, which sometimes isn't even an option, which means I have to pick between slower movement or good background music. Also applies to the Tauros riding theme in Gen 7
For the Tauros ride it isn't permanent, entering any loading zone will change the music back again. Which is nice, but still, that theme kinda sucks.
Yeah just like the bike theme. I'm saying I don't like nearly any of them and that the bike theme itself is usually inferior to whatever other theme could be playing in the current route/town
Agreed.
Pokemon Red / Blue / Yellow are fantastic games that don't get nearly enough credit from most people.
They were on the freaking Game Boy. The norm for that console in terms of platformers was farting out roughly 5 semi-long stages for a platformer (Operation C / Contra and the Castlevania trilogy) and calling it a day. Super Mario Land 2: Six Golden Coins is the only Game Boy game other than RBY I'd call anywhere close to ambitious for the hardware (that I've played). Most Game Boy games were 30-45 minutes long. That was it.
I don't know if there were many other RPGs on the Game Boy, as I was a late 90s kid, well after the system's prime (I got into the series with RSE / FRLG, and am only now firing up some creamed spinach games on the Game Boy). But regardless, it's just mind-blowing how much they fit into a relatively long game by the system's standards.
Yes, Pokemon Red / Blue / Yellow have derpy / occasionally nightmarish sprites. Yes, Pokemon Red / Blue / Yellow have an annoying inventory limit. Yes, Pokemon Red / Blue / Yellow are held together by toothpicks and duct tape. But it still amazes me they were able to cram all 151 Pokemon onto one game, have multiple distinct towns, tons of moves, trainer class sprites, and all of that. Do later games in the series do what Pokemon Red / Blue / Yellow did better? Yeah. I think Gens 3-5 refined the formula (Johto has too many gameplay cracks for me to call it a great game, sorry). But just because later gens did it better doesn't mean the original games should be forgotten by newer gamers. I think this sort of history is important to experience for yourself even if it can feel dated at times.
Now do I think they need to say "HEY GUYS, GEN 1, AMIRITE?" in all the newer games constantly? Definitely not, and I'm glad they've slowly been easing back on it with Pokemon: Detective Pikachu having mons from many different gens and Legends having a balanced feel with the new forms. But the original games, as silly as they are, are fun enough to play today, even when we got Derpzard up in here.
They were on the freaking Game Boy. The norm for that console in terms of platformers was farting out roughly 5 semi-long stages for a platformer (Operation C / Contra and the Castlevania trilogy) and calling it a day. Super Mario Land 2: Six Golden Coins is the only Game Boy game other than RBY I'd call anywhere close to ambitious for the hardware (that I've played). Most Game Boy games were 30-45 minutes long. That was it.
I don't know if there were many other RPGs on the Game Boy, as I was a late 90s kid, well after the system's prime (I got into the series with RSE / FRLG, and am only now firing up some creamed spinach games on the Game Boy). But regardless, it's just mind-blowing how much they fit into a relatively long game by the system's standards.
Yes, Pokemon Red / Blue / Yellow have derpy / occasionally nightmarish sprites. Yes, Pokemon Red / Blue / Yellow have an annoying inventory limit. Yes, Pokemon Red / Blue / Yellow are held together by toothpicks and duct tape. But it still amazes me they were able to cram all 151 Pokemon onto one game, have multiple distinct towns, tons of moves, trainer class sprites, and all of that. Do later games in the series do what Pokemon Red / Blue / Yellow did better? Yeah. I think Gens 3-5 refined the formula (Johto has too many gameplay cracks for me to call it a great game, sorry). But just because later gens did it better doesn't mean the original games should be forgotten by newer gamers. I think this sort of history is important to experience for yourself even if it can feel dated at times.
Now do I think they need to say "HEY GUYS, GEN 1, AMIRITE?" in all the newer games constantly? Definitely not, and I'm glad they've slowly been easing back on it with Pokemon: Detective Pikachu having mons from many different gens and Legends having a balanced feel with the new forms. But the original games, as silly as they are, are fun enough to play today, even when we got Derpzard up in here.
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Now if only dev didn't take 6 freaking years, and an RPG with better overworld interactivity didn't exist on Gameboy before...
Jokes aside, GF cramming 151 monster designs is very impressive. No other RPG advertised monster designs so much before. And mon inpiration has led to people discovering animals thry never knew before
And Gen 1 as broken as it is at least is playable campaign wise. Gen 2 I can't say
Jokes aside, GF cramming 151 monster designs is very impressive. No other RPG advertised monster designs so much before. And mon inpiration has led to people discovering animals thry never knew before
Hm, I actually most people would give credit to Gen I if asked. It's what started the Pokemon franchise, laying down a foundation of not only gameplay if uses to this day but also was the first major multimedia franchise having games, TCG, and an anime, ALL which are still going on to this day! It deserves its place in the annuals of history, and not just for video games but as a pop culture phenomenon that has yet to run out of steam.
BUT that doesn't change that, nowadays, the games themselves are only notable for how buggy they are. The fact is that if you want the "Kanto experience" there's FRLG, Let's Go, and probably a dozen fanmade remakes which have added in the Category Split & Fairy-type among other innovations. Gen I (and Gen II, essentially the Gameboy era games) have reached a point where museum pieces, to be admired but not played. Like, I wouldn't even suggest it even for the curious, once again FRLG would be my goto with Let's Go if they want a bit of the Yellow experience. I would say the only reason to go back to RBY is if you are either playing or making an interesting mod using the GB graphics.
Maybe GF should consider doing a dynamic music layer instead of replacing the overworld theme with a unique bike theme; think Mario Sunshine when Mario ride Yoshi, instead of changing the overworld music they add a layer of bongo music and at one point goes silent for a bongo solo. It's not only a neat effect but if they added different layers of instrument depending on where you are they could make riding the bike have a different feeling from one location to another (or at the very least make you curious what each location's theme sounds like with the bike).
They also got a slight stat reshuffle.
Dialga:
- Stats: 20 is taken from Attack and added to Special Defense: 100/100/120/150/120/90//680.
- Signature Move: Roar of Time's Power is increased to 140 but Accuracy decreased to 75%. But when using Strong Style Roar of Time the Power shoots up to 170 and Accuracy given a slight increase to 85%!
- Stats: 20 is taken from Attack and added to Speed: 90/100/100/150/120/120//680.
- Signature Move: Spacial Rend's Power & Accuracy decrease by 10 (80/85%) BUT its Critical Hit Ratio becomes +2. And if you use a Strong Style Spacial Rend its Power becomes 100, Accuracy 95%, and gets a +3 CHR which means it's always going to land a Critical Hit!
As for who got off better, I feel Palkia wins overall. The increase to Speed is very much appreciated and Spacial Rend wasn't as nerfed as hard as Roar of Time, Strong Style making it nearly perfect Accuracy plus a guaranteed Critical Hit! Now the added Special Defense isn't lost on Dialga, just still a bit lackluster. Honestly I would have put the 20 into Special Attack to make Dialga at the very least a nuke, Roar of Time's nerfs do not make up for its increased Power. Actually, if they wanted to go defensive with Dialga, why not give it the secondary effect of its defense or evasion increasing (distorting time around itself either weakening moves or making them dissipate), or maybe even healing (rewinding damage done to it)?
Also, as far as we know, their Abilities don't change. Maybe that'll change in Scarlet & Violet and they'll be given new Signature Abilities. And to get them all they have to do is Palkia chop its arms off and Dialga start choking.
The Ultra Beasts are a great idea though sadly we'll probably not really see any new ones (and it still feels too early to even play around with the idea of a Gen VII remake).
Yeah, I myself am kind of getting tired of the "Legendary Hunt" thing they're doing each gen, especially if they're gonna keep to their guns with Dexit. Instead of shotgunning every Legendary into the game, pick a few groups which feel like they could have a place. You can add some more via DLC, but there's no need to include all Legendaries. Heck, maybe even experiment and break up a group, only including one or two of their members; maybe even use that as an excuse to create new Legendaries!
If you break them down to their very basic concept, Reshiram and Zekrom embody opposites. White & Black, Feminine & Masculine, Organic & Mechanical, Special & Physical, Classical & Modern, etc.. Truth & Ideals were just chosen for thematic and lore purposes, in a way maybe a subtle way to imply a conservative & liberal lean without using those words so not to repel anyone from liking one of them due to political beliefs. They are always fighting each other because its their very nature, they were made to oppose one another because that was how they were created.
Zacian and Zamazenta are harder to pin down what they embody. They are both heroes with one being more offense focused and the other defense focused. Maybe since both were needed to defeat Eternatus they embody the exact opposite of Reshiram & Zekrom: Cooperation (& maybe a little Compromise). One cannot last long always attacking, but one cannot win if they only guard. A person who only looks ahead may lose what they leave behind, but a person focused on keeping what they have will gain little more. A high risk taker will eventually lose if they never stop, but someone who only saves is depriving themselves of happiness. There has to be a balance in the middle, or at least two of these beliefs working together to make a balanced whole.
(I'll stop here for now, maybe I'll take a deeper look back at pages I've missed to see if there's anything I may want to comment on...)
So you don’t think Gen 2 has aged very well?
Likewise, I think HGSS was a pretty looking remake that sadly failed to address many fundamental issues with Johto like evolutionary stones being obnoxious to get, the low level curve, the faulty rematch system, and somehow made Lance harder as a final battle (he’d be hard in the originals if the Ice Punch TM didn’t exist). It’s a shame. Also, the Safari Zone was pretty garbage - easily the worst in the series with that dumb 3 hour in-game timer to unlock the other areas, complete with underleveled Pokémon.
I'm all for legacy moves being removed if it means hidden abilities can be reverted to regular abilities, since a hypothetical No Guard Fissure Machamp would no longer be possible.
Casual Battle does not have any restrictions at all towards Pokemon used. Only Ranked and Competitive battles require Gen 8 legal Pokemon.
Honestly I think people are overthinking it.
I don't think they are trying to fix anything.
I'm quite confident the only reason that's a thing is due to the fact that PLA / SwSh / BDSP have completely different movesets which do not overlap even as far as actually existing moves go (es: BDSP has Hidden Power, SwSh doesnt, SwSh has a bunch of moves not present in BDSP, and LA has a bunch of new moves that don't exist in SwSh).
This would basically cause a constant need to ask the player to fix their pokemon moveset due to incompatible moves, as well as potentially have pokemon with relearnable moves in their moveset (due to egg moves / TR data from swsh) that do not exist in the other games.
I wouldn't be surprised if SV will just keep SwSh data regularly and this is a specific exception they've done for these 2 games to not have to bother with all the transfer bullshit things.
I would like to add that while the games were indeed important, it wasn’t them alone that got Pokémon to the name it was today. If it wasn’t for the anime, Pokémon would never have gotten such appeal, and that’s not counting for merchandise like the TCG specifically. If it weren’t for the success of these factors, Pokémon would never be that successful as it is today.
GSC certainly plays better than RBY as they actually now had some experience under their belt, though as you mentioned they really bungled the level curve. Plus to fit Kanto, even with the help of Iwata, they really had to cut quite a bit out.
... BUT I still don't know why you would play that over HGSS. HGSS fails to address the same issues, but that just means gameplay wise it's on "par". Except, modern players would be able to ease into HGSS more easily as it has both Abilities and the Physical/Special Split. Also, unlike FRLG, HGSS didn't stop later gen cross evolutions which could also change how you used certain Pokemon such as Yanma,
They could also, you know, just make No Guard not work with OHKO moves.
Well I did hint to that in the first paragraph of my post you quoted so I wasn't ignoring the anime or TCG. We were just talking about the games and specifically their contribution.
If the remakes fail to improve upon the originals, and you get the same gameplay flaws no matter which one you play, why bother with the remakes? Then I'd rather stick to the originals. Plus I have a positive nostalgic attachment to G/S/C which I don't have for HG/SS. I have explained my thoughts on this in more detail here, don't feel like repeating it all again.
If several cross-gen evos are blocked until the post-game, I consider that a big negative since there's no good reason for it. HG/SS allowed you to get Yanmega, Tangrowth, Ambipom, Lickilicky and Mamoswine before you beat the E4, so why not the others as well? And you can't get Probopass, Magnezone, Leafeon and Glaceon in HG/SS at all outside of trading (just like you can't get Espeon or Umbreon in FR/LG). This is basically inexcusable as they could easily just have added a magnetic zone and moss/ice rocks to the games. Thankfully OR/AS did everything right by allowing you to get all the new cross-gen evos before beating the game (and all Eeveelutions after beating the game).
No. They. Have. Not. See the post I linked to earlier for a summary of everything HG/SS didn't keep from Crystal (or changed for the worse in some cases).
This is honestly the best solution to this problem I have seen. It would be really great if this was the case. And on this topic, I also find it annoying how you can change a regular Ability to a Hidden Ability, but it can't be done the other way around.
Pokemon never went downhill.
I think XY is pretty mediocre, but ORAS was good, Sun and Moon/Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon were arguably the best games in the series.
LGPE wasn't made for our demographic, and SWSH is very mediocre. I don't think SWSH is the worst Pokemon game, but it's the worst at its time; Pokemon Red is worse today, but it was one of the best Gameboy games at the time. Sword and Shield has a good online component but that's kind of it.
BDSP is mediocre,
PLA good.
But unlike others, I wouldn't say "some mediocre some good" is a new phenomenon by any stretch. I like Gen 3, but think DP is pretty bad, Platinum is okay, HGSS is good. Black and White above average, B2W2 at the upper height.
I think Pokemon has always been a bumpy road, and my favorite games in the series came out in """The Dark Times"""
I hate how Reddit Opinions have taken over Pokemon discourse. Gen5ers or whatever. A lot of people love the games of "The Downfall", and for legitimate reasons; but going on Twitter or Reddit you just find a homogeny of one single tier list basically, and then if you go anywhere else you find an immense variety of opinions.
I know this was ranty, RIP
I think XY is pretty mediocre, but ORAS was good, Sun and Moon/Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon were arguably the best games in the series.
LGPE wasn't made for our demographic, and SWSH is very mediocre. I don't think SWSH is the worst Pokemon game, but it's the worst at its time; Pokemon Red is worse today, but it was one of the best Gameboy games at the time. Sword and Shield has a good online component but that's kind of it.
BDSP is mediocre,
PLA good.
But unlike others, I wouldn't say "some mediocre some good" is a new phenomenon by any stretch. I like Gen 3, but think DP is pretty bad, Platinum is okay, HGSS is good. Black and White above average, B2W2 at the upper height.
I think Pokemon has always been a bumpy road, and my favorite games in the series came out in """The Dark Times"""
I hate how Reddit Opinions have taken over Pokemon discourse. Gen5ers or whatever. A lot of people love the games of "The Downfall", and for legitimate reasons; but going on Twitter or Reddit you just find a homogeny of one single tier list basically, and then if you go anywhere else you find an immense variety of opinions.
I know this was ranty, RIP
Let's say that a lot of the stuff GameFreaks can get away with right now (whenever it's due to them being bad programmers or TPCI pushing a harsh release schedule or a comb oof both) would not be possible, since without the franchise carrying the games, they would have actually needed to stand out to justify the investment.
But in Japan at least, the Anime and TCG were created over a year after Red and Green were released as a direct result of the games being a surprising smash hit, which was unexpected by pretty much anyone working on the games since it was released on 7 year old system that was at it's lowest point popularity-wise(Pokemon single-handedly brought the Gameboy back into the spotlight and was the main contributing factor for the system getting successors)
I kind of wish TPC/GF would focus on making Battle Stadium Singles more prominent. I truly believe that BSS is an underrated gem of competitive Pokémon . There are so many cool strategies that aren’t viable in 6v6 Singles or VGC, like Counter Sash Urshifu, Curse + Substitute Mimikyu, and OHKO Fishing for starters. On the topic of OHKO moves, their legality made sets like Sub Roost Articuno, Moody Glalie, and Gliscor terrifying stallbreakers. It also great seeing how metagames develop without bans unlike Smogon. One of my favor teams was using a Hail Core of Alolan Ninetales, Alolan Sandslash, and Mega Gyarados to counter top threats like Mega Salamence, Aegislash, Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Hippowdown and Mimikyu to name a few. Speaking of stall, I don’t really find it as concerning as people fear it might be due to a few factors, primarily that three slots are a lot less defensively reliable than six slots, and being Lv. 50, the defensive stats aren’t proportionally as high. Plus, Dynamax makes it that hard stall is very difficult to use. If they really are concerned about games going for to long, they can do a 10-15 minute match time ( Yes match time, Your Time sucks ) to ensure games don’t go too long.
I haven't played any teambuilt Battle Spot Singles, but I certainly do have a soft spot for the format since Showdown has a randomised version (BSSF) using pre-made sets by the Smogon BSS community that is really fun. Cutting your team in half at team preview based on what Pokémon the opponent has brought is very interesting strategy and not actually as coinflippy as it sounds, oftentimes both you and the opponent can gauge which 3 mons are optimal for both of you to bring and plan accordingly, maybe making one risky selection outside of the optimal 3 if there isn't so much opportunity cost. And even with stallier sets, games rarely last more than 10 turns unless an evasion-boosting Pokémon is brought.
I do think Smogon Singles is an overall better, more competitive experience than BSS, but yeah BSS should definitely still be more of an option than it is and should be played at major official tournaments. It's a very unique experience that is more fun than it looks. Ironically, if they were to start headlining it at official tournaments more, they would probably have to slightly go down the Smogon route and ban at the very least Minimize as a move, as that is the main move that makes games last too long.
Well yeah, people today with basic programming skills can rebuild the original games better than ever. There's plenty of Rom hacks that prove this. Technology is wonderful and makes a mockery of the original games.
But that's like saying the Wright Brothers aircraft is shit. I mean yeah, by today's standards it is. But that isn't really fair. I could go to Walmart / Cabellas and buy the cheapest gun they sell and immediately become the deadliest warrior on the planet in the year 1400. But that says nothing about my skills or abilities, just that technology makes things outdated.
SwSh were, almost objectively speaking, the worst Pokemon games of all time accounting for technology. They have fewer Pokemon than games released a DECADE ago, no real story mode outside of "fight gym, walk 10 minutes, tap A as characters talk, repeat until game ends", cut moves / Pokemon that is unprecedented in the series, Online play that makes Starcraft 1998 look more advanced, countless terrible unpopular gameplay decisions like mandatory battle time, mandatory XP share, and dexit, paid DLC that takes 30 minutes to beat, cut Megas, and arguably the worst gimmick ever Dynamax. The only good thing I can say about them is they're graphically better than any game before them but given the hardware difference it would be hard not to. It's an insult to the fans that this is the crap the world's most profitable franchise gives us.
The games were clearly rushed and trash. Yeah by 20 YEAR technology standards they're better than the original games but that's a really low bar to clear.
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Okay here's a doofer of an unpopular opinion.
With Dexit appearing to be the state of play for new games for the foreseeable future, I would actually really dig a Pokemon game composed entirely of newer Pokemon, by which I mean those from gens III, IV and later.
The old Pokemon have their place - many of them are my favourites - but they're so over-exposed that they're just boring to me now. I just don't think there's much left to do with the species from Gen I and II any more save regional variants, but we've got enough from the first two gens that I don't think more are needed: Hoenn only has one, and Sinnoh none at all, so future regional variants should make use of those regions.
But I'm not actually talking about regional variants; I'd just appreciate a game where the newer-older Pokemon get a spotlight. Some Pokemon, like Finneon and Lumineon, have had very little attention and focus despite being introduced 16 (!!) years ago. I used to dislike unconventional or experimental Pokemon designs, but I'm realising now that I'd rather be exposed to a "miss" from a later generation than a safe option. Honestly I really don't know why I haven't played PLA yet, it sounds like it's exactly my bag.
Of course, it'll never happen. Nintendo draws players in with old favourites like Charizard and Gengar, but I could honestly go a whole generation without seeing those. Let them take a break. I promise I'll be more interested in seeing them once they've been gone a while.
With Dexit appearing to be the state of play for new games for the foreseeable future, I would actually really dig a Pokemon game composed entirely of newer Pokemon, by which I mean those from gens III, IV and later.
The old Pokemon have their place - many of them are my favourites - but they're so over-exposed that they're just boring to me now. I just don't think there's much left to do with the species from Gen I and II any more save regional variants, but we've got enough from the first two gens that I don't think more are needed: Hoenn only has one, and Sinnoh none at all, so future regional variants should make use of those regions.
But I'm not actually talking about regional variants; I'd just appreciate a game where the newer-older Pokemon get a spotlight. Some Pokemon, like Finneon and Lumineon, have had very little attention and focus despite being introduced 16 (!!) years ago. I used to dislike unconventional or experimental Pokemon designs, but I'm realising now that I'd rather be exposed to a "miss" from a later generation than a safe option. Honestly I really don't know why I haven't played PLA yet, it sounds like it's exactly my bag.
Of course, it'll never happen. Nintendo draws players in with old favourites like Charizard and Gengar, but I could honestly go a whole generation without seeing those. Let them take a break. I promise I'll be more interested in seeing them once they've been gone a while.
Also, some Gen 3 and 4 Pokémon haven't gotten a new PokéDex entry since HGSS because they haven't been in a regional Dex since their introductions.