Pet Mod Bust a Move (Playable on Dragon Heaven!) [See you in SV!]

[cheesesir]

just addressing this one quickly - egg bomb is definitely not seismic toss and soft-boiled in one slot. each use of it heals for exactly 50 HP unless it KOs or hits an already-damaged substitute, which is slightly more HP than you would recover with leftovers each turn. it's helpful for chip healing certainly, but aside from the 90% accuracy it also has literally half as much PP as seismic toss, making it a lot easier to stall out.

Ah, my bad. I read that as 50% of the users health, not 50% of damage dealt. No complaints on that then.

 

[PalpitoadChamp]

Corrosive Gas - The user corrodes the item of the opposing Pokemon, allowing the user's Poison moves to hit Steel types for 5 turns.
Reason: Corrosive Gas was always broken and uncodable so a change is required to make it not broken. Corrosive Gas now only affects the user's Poison moves and for limited time, making it balanced and have more issues. It still is item disabling and allowing your stabs to hit an immunity which are both very good effects.

Strength - 80 bp, Has a 10% chance to lower the target's Def by 1. Super effective against Rock.
Reason: My Strength was a bad idea and I don't have a clue why it was voted in. This gives it more power and use although I didn't want to make it that much stronger.

Dream Eater - Deals double damage and heals the user by 75% of the damage delt if the target is asleep.
Reason: My Dream Eater was not a good submission either and provided very little opportunities to be good. Now its a 140 bp draining move if the target is asleep.

Sing - Puts the target to sleep. When used, heals the user by 1/6 of its max hp.
Reason: Sing just wasn't reliable enough to be used and now is becomes more reliable with healing for a smaller amount every time used, even if missed.

Sparkling Aria - 95 bp
Reason: Sparkling Aria wasn't all that good to be used by most teams unless they really hate burns. Now it has enough bp to deal some actual damage.

 

[okispokis]

While this discussion phase was short, it would appear we do have something to look over. But first, I wanted to address one additional thing (thanks to Z-noygroP for fielding the one question).

2) Drum Beating doesn't seem to have any changes beyond the distribution, not sure if that's intentional or not.

That was deliberate. The whole idea of Slate 18 was that those three moves (Drum Beating, Searing Shot, Heal Order) were already good, but were restricted to Pokemon on which they were substandard options; as such, the community deemed only a boost to distribution was necessary for these moves to succeed. We will eventually do something similar for Aeroblast, Blaze Kick and Power Trip.

Now, as for the proposed changes:

• -Phantom Force
  • I'm not sure how Phantom Force would interact with Stance Change, but this is something I honestly wanted to look into anyway.
• -Beak Blast
• Life Dew: Slightly buff healing for the user
  • So, the intention with this first discussion was only that we look into distribution and possibly broken mons. I am hesitant to further alter moves; that said, the fact this change was proposed by the winner for Life Dew and the fact this move is not yet coded meant I ultimately decided to at least look into this. As such, I have opted to propose it for the vote. For future reference, any changes made to moves after their initial buff will be subject to vote AND require explicit approval from the move's creator if possible.
• Corrosive Gas: Poison moves can hit Steel types for 5 turns.
• Strength: 10% chance to lower target's Defense, 70-> 80 BP.
  • Think I might have initially misinterpreted the proposed change. Oops.
• Dream Eater: Heal user for 75% of damage dealt if the target is asleep on top of dealing double damage.
• Sing: Heal user even if the move misses.
• Sparkling Aria: 80 BP-> 95 BP

So here are your questions. For each option, simply reply "Yes" if you believe the change should be made, "No" if you feel no change should be made, or "Abstain" if you have no strong opinion. Please list the name of the move or use the correlating Pokemon sprite seen below next to each response.
Questions

• Should Aegislash lose access to Phantom Force?
  • (Charges at the start of the turn, then executes at -3 priority. Any Pokemon that makes contact with the user while charging is afflicted by Curse. Bypasses Protect; 100 BP, 24 max PP)
• Should Honchkrow lose access to Beak Blast?
  • ( If user moves before the target, the target is burned; 120 BP, 16 max PP)
• Should Life Dew be buffed from healing the 33% max HP and heal the next ally 25% max HP when they switch in (previously 25% for both)?
• Should Corrosive Gas be changed to allow Poison moves to hit Steel types for 5 turns (previously permanently applied to target; was ended up being unwieldy to code)?
• Should Strength gain a 10% Defense drop chance and be buffed from 70 to 80 BP?
• Should Dream Eater also heal the user for 75% damage dealt if the target is asleep (previously did double damage to sleeping targets)?
• Should Sing heal the user even is unsuccessful (previously only occurred if the move landed)?
• Should Sparkling Aria be buffed from 80 to 95 BP?

Votes will close in about 72 hours.

 

[Z-nogyroP]

abstain
yes
yes
no (in theory, couldn't corrosive gas be coded to replace the target's held item with a ring target-esque item that allows poison moves to hit steel-types? particularly given that corrosive gas doesn't actually remove the item in canon, just disables it - you can't get a new item via thief or anything. just make the new item untrickable and unknockable and such)
no, unless the proposal is combined with the original effect of hitting rock SE, in which case yes
yes
yes
yes

 

[Dead by Daylight]

+ Phantom Force: Abstain
+ Beak Blast: No
Life Dew: Yes
Corrosive Gas: Yes
Strength: Yes (I was an idiot and forgot that it hit Rock SE)
Dream Eater: No
Sing: Yes
Sparkling Aria: No, but I would approve it if it was buffed to 85 BP

 

[cheesesir]

That was deliberate. The whole idea of Slate 18 was that those three moves (Drum Beating, Searing Shot, Heal Order) were already good, but were restricted to Pokemon on which they were substandard options; as such, the community deemed only a boost to distribution was necessary for these moves to succeed. We will eventually do something similar for Aeroblast, Blaze Kick and Power Trip.

Ah, ok. I didn't find that part of the thread, so just wanted to make sure that it was intentional. Thanks for answering.

Now for the voting.
If Aegislash changes into attack form when the trap is first set, then no. If it stays in Shield form until -3 priority, then yes, it should lose access.
No, but I think it should be watched once the meta is more developed.
yes
abstain
yes
no
yes
yes

 

[PalpitoadChamp]

Yes
No
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes

 

[Rasdanation]

Abstain - idk lol
No - As was mentioned in the post suggesting this, this should simply be on the watchlist for the moment being. Bust a Move meta has been barely explored as of now, and it would be best to see Honch in action before we make any rash decisions.
Abstain - I personally proposed this as I felt 25% healing is hard to justify using in this context. However, I will admit I subbed the move, and to avoid any potential bias regarding this balance change, I will leave this decision to everybody else.
Abstain - idk
Yes - This is really just a complete rework of the entire move, and completely disregard’s the identity of the winning submission. Balance changes are meant to adjust, not rework. Besides this change makes it just worse normal-type crunch, nothings gonna use this. Apparently 10% drop is on top of the original effects. Carry on then.
Yes - Sleep Venoshock definitely struggles in viability, so self healing is appreciated. Self healing imo should be 50%, not 75%, but that can be worked out later.
Yes - Seems fine idk
No - Moves with less useful side effects have to put up with less bp. Should be 85/90 BP

 

[koista12]

No
No
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes

 

[okispokis]

And that's it for voting! Here are the results for our balance discussion:

• Aegislash will not lose Phantom Force, however the level of uncertainty means it will be brought up next balance discussion.
• With 5-1 vote, Honchkrow will not lose access to Beak Blast.
• With a 5-0 vote, Life Dew will be buffed to heal the user by 33% max HP.
• With an even split, Corrosive Gas just barely falls short of the necessary majority, and thus will not be changed.
• With a unanimous majority, Strength will be buffed to 80 BP and have a 10% Def drop chance.
• With a 4-2 vote, Dream Eater will be buffed to heal 75% of damage dealt if the target is asleep.
• With a unanimous majority, Sing will be buffed to heal the user even if the move misses.
• With a 4-2 vote, Sparkling Aria will be buffed to 95 BP.

While it may have been short, I am pleased with what this discussion has laid the groundwork for, and I hope next balance discussion can be even more productive. But for now, let's finally get onto our next true slate:

Slate 31: Wheel in the Sky​

Next up, we have Eerie Impulse, Flame Wheel and Hyperspace Hole. Eerie Impulse is another "drop the opponent's stats move" that is once again simply too unreliable to be used in a serious strategy. Flame Wheel is the medium level-up move for physical Fire types, naturally dropping off once the player can access Flare Blitz. Hyperspace Hole has the ability to break Protect, but this is far outweighed by its lower damage and terrible PP, not even usable in the Protect-heavy VGC since Hoopa is banned. Special note:

• Given that it's the signature of a Mythical and dimension-bending flavor, please keep flavor in mind for any increases to distribution on Hyperspace Hole. ​

~~~​

You have one week to get your submissions in, as always. Be sure to read the rules, but otherwise get out there and Bust a Move!

 

[Z-nogyroP]

Move Name: Flame Wheel
Type: Fire
Category: Physical
BP: 60
Acc: 100%
PP: 25 -> 15
Effect: +1 priority. Deals 50% recoil. No longer has a burn chance. Thaws the user out.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Flame Wheel is a stronger-than-average priority move, at the price of inflicting recoil. Emboar benefits from Reckless boosting it further, while Alolan Marowak benefits from both bypassing its poor Speed (as with Flareon, Entei, and Emboar) and takes no recoil thanks to Rock Head.

Move Name: Hyperspace Hole
Type: Psychic
Category: Special
BP: 80
Acc: --
PP: 5 -> 15
Effect: Sets Gravity for five turns.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Enables Gravity-based strategies, since its setters no longer need to set it up passively. Jirachi makes for a useful pivot thanks to its Steel-type and U-turn, while Orbeetle can combine it with Sticky Web.

Move Name: Eerie Impulse
Type: Electric
Category: Status
BP: --
Acc: 100%
PP: 15 - > 20
Effect: Harshly lowers the target's Sp. Atk, then switches the user out. Sound-based.
New Users: N/A
Viable Users:
Description: Parting Shot but not quite. Offers a harder punish on special attackers, but less on physical ones. Most of its users have access to Volt Switch already, but the few that don't, like Quagsire and Porygon2, can make excellent use out of it. Notably, unlike Volt Switch, it bypasses Ground-type immunity (though is blocked by Soundproof).

 

[Dead by Daylight]

The issue is that Flame Wheel is so...alienated, kinda-sorta (buffing its BP makes it basically Fire Punch or Flare Blitz, buffing Speed makes it a better Flame Charge).

Move Name: Hyperspace Hole
Type: Psychic
Category: Special
BP: 80 --> 100
PP: 5 [8] --> 10 [16]
Accuracy: --
Secondary Effect: Applies the effects of Smack Down onto the target.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Smack Down is a cool concept that is held back by its very limited use: you can only achieve its effects by using Smack Down itself (which is unviable) or using Thousand Arrows, Zygarde's exclusive move. This lets it see more use.

Move Name: Eerie Impulse
Type: Electric
Category: Status
BP: --
PP: 20 [32]
Accuracy: --
Secondary Effect: Lowers the target's Special Attack 2 stages and disables the target's last used move..
New Users: line
Viable Users: line
Description: This lets you cripple attackers trying to switch in and hit you with an SE move by disabling not only their last used move.

 

[PalpitoadChamp]

Name: Eerie Impulse
Type: Electric
Category: Status
BP: ---
Acc: 100%
PP: 20 (32)
Effect: Lowers the target's SpA & SpD by 2.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Eerie Impulse now helps force switches as most pokemon don't want to get smacked by a special attack when they're at -2 and have a harder time fighting back if they are special. Magnezone can take advantage of this against steel-types very well as they can't switch.

Name: Flame Wheel
Type: Fire
Category: Fire
BP: 40
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: If the target is switching out, this move hits before they can switch and deals 2x damage. [Contact]
New Users: None
Viable Users:
Description: Sylvemons Flame Wheel?!? This is fire pursuit. This isn't as crazy as pursuit as it has much more limited distribution.

Name: Hyperspace Hole
Type: Psychic
Category: Special
BP: 70
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: Deals super effective damage against Dark-types.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Hyperspace Hole becomes dark freeze-dry. It has lower PP as it now ignores its immunity which is a big win.

 

[okispokis]

Here's a bit of feedback.

Dead by Daylight: The aspect of Eerie Impulse disabling any Ghost type moves feels a bit overly complicated; -2 SpA + Disable sounds like enough, plus this way we're less likely to run into potential coding issues.

24 hour warning to submit and/or edit.

 

[okispokis]

Voting time! Here are the eligible subs:

Eerie Impulse

Z-nogyroP

Move Name: Eerie Impulse
Type: Electric
Category: Status
BP: --
Acc: 100%
PP: 15 - > 20
Effect: Harshly lowers the target's Sp. Atk, then switches the user out. Sound-based.
New Users: N/A
Viable Users:
Description: Parting Shot but not quite. Offers a harder punish on special attackers, but less on physical ones. Most of its users have access to Volt Switch already, but the few that don't, like Quagsire and Porygon2, can make excellent use out of it. Notably, unlike Volt Switch, it bypasses Ground-type immunity (though is blocked by Soundproof).

Dead by Daylight

Move Name: Eerie Impulse
Type: Electric
Category: Status
BP: --
PP: 20 [32]
Accuracy: --
Secondary Effect: Lowers the target's Special Attack 2 stages and disables the target's last used move..
New Users: line
Viable Users: line
Description: This lets you cripple attackers trying to switch in and hit you with an SE move by disabling not only their last used move.

PalpitoadChamp

Name: Eerie Impulse
Type: Electric
Category: Status
BP: ---
Acc: 100%
PP: 20 (32)
Effect: Lowers the target's SpA & SpD by 2.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Eerie Impulse now helps force switches as most pokemon don't want to get smacked by a special attack when they're at -2 and have a harder time fighting back if they are special. Magnezone can take advantage of this against steel-types very well as they can't switch.

Flame Wheel

Z-nogyroP

Move Name: Flame Wheel
Type: Fire
Category: Physical
BP: 60
Acc: 100%
PP: 25 -> 15
Effect: +1 priority. Deals 50% recoil. No longer has a burn chance. Thaws the user out.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Flame Wheel is a stronger-than-average priority move, at the price of inflicting recoil. Emboar benefits from Reckless boosting it further, while Alolan Marowak benefits from both bypassing its poor Speed (as with Flareon, Entei, and Emboar) and takes no recoil thanks to Rock Head.

PalpitoadChamp

Name: Flame Wheel
Type: Fire
Category: Fire
BP: 40
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: If the target is switching out, this move hits before they can switch and deals 2x damage. [Contact]
New Users: None
Viable Users:
Description: Sylvemons Flame Wheel?!? This is fire pursuit. This isn't as crazy as pursuit as it has much more limited distribution.

Hyperspace Hole

Z-nogyroP

Move Name: Hyperspace Hole
Type: Psychic
Category: Special
BP: 80
Acc: --
PP: 5 -> 15
Effect: Sets Gravity for five turns.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Enables Gravity-based strategies, since its setters no longer need to set it up passively. Jirachi makes for a useful pivot thanks to its Steel-type and U-turn, while Orbeetle can combine it with Sticky Web.

Dead by Daylight

Move Name: Hyperspace Hole
Type: Psychic
Category: Special
BP: 80 --> 100
PP: 5 [8] --> 10 [16]
Accuracy: --
Secondary Effect: Applies the effects of Smack Down onto the target.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Smack Down is a cool concept that is held back by its very limited use: you can only achieve its effects by using Smack Down itself (which is unviable) or using Thousand Arrows, Zygarde's exclusive move. This lets it see more use.

PalpitoadChamp

Name: Hyperspace Hole
Type: Psychic
Category: Special
BP: 70
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: Deals super effective damage against Dark-types.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Hyperspace Hole becomes dark freeze-dry. It has lower PP as it now ignores its immunity which is a big win.

3 days to cast votes, remember the rules regarding self-voting.

~~~​

And don't forget to vote below for which moves should be buffed next time in Slate 32.

>>Slate 32 Poll<< ​

 

[PalpitoadChamp]

Z-nogyroP, PalpitoadChamp, Dead by Daylight

PalpitoadChamp, Z-nogyroP

Z-nogyroP, PalpitoadChamp, Dead by Daylight

 

[ViZar]

Eerie Impulse: PalpitoadChamp, Z-nogyroP, Dead by Daylight

Flame Wheel: Z-nogyroP, PalpitoadChamp

Hyperspace Hole: Z-nogyroP, Dead by Daylight, PalpitoadChamp

 

[Dead by Daylight]

Eerie Impulse: Z-nogyroP, Dead by Daylight, PalpitoadChamp
Flame Wheel: PalpitoadChamp, Z-nogyroP
Hyperspace Hole: Z-nogyroP, Dead by Daylight, PalpitoadChamp

 

[Jacob723]

Eerie Impulse: Z-nogyroP, PalpitoadChamp, Dead by Daylight

Flame Wheel: Z-nogyroP, Palpitoad Champ

Hyperspace Hole: Palpitoad Champ, Z-nogyroP, Dead by Daylight

 

[cheesesir]

Eerie Impulse: Z-nogyroP, PalpitoadChamp, Dead by Daylight
Flame Wheel: PalpitoadChamp, Z-nogyroP
Hyperspace Hole: Dead By Daylight, PalpitoadChamp, Z-nogyroP

 

[okispokis]

And the votes are in! Here are the winners:

For Eerie Impulse: Z-nogyroP!

Move Name: Eerie Impulse
Type: Electric
Category: Status
BP: --
Acc: 100%
PP: 15 - > 20
Effect: Harshly lowers the target's Sp. Atk, then switches the user out. Sound-based.
New Users: N/A
Viable Users:
Description: Parting Shot but not quite. Offers a harder punish on special attackers, but less on physical ones. Most of its users have access to Volt Switch already, but the few that don't, like Quagsire and Porygon2, can make excellent use out of it. Notably, unlike Volt Switch, it bypasses Ground-type immunity (though is blocked by Soundproof).

Eerie Impulse Tally

Z-nogyroP: 14
PalpitoadChamp: 10
Dead by Daylight: 6

For Flame Wheel: PalpitoadChamp!

Name: Flame Wheel
Type: Fire
Category: Fire
BP: 40
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: If the target is switching out, this move hits before they can switch and deals 2x damage. [Contact]
New Users: None
Viable Users:
Description: Sylvemons Flame Wheel?!? This is fire pursuit. This isn't as crazy as pursuit as it has much more limited distribution.

Flame Wheel Tally

PalpitoadChamp: 13
Z-nogyroP: 10

For Hyperspace Hole: Z-nogyroP!

Type: Psychic
Category: Special
BP: 80
Acc: --
PP: 5 -> 15
Effect: Sets Gravity for five turns.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Enables Gravity-based strategies, since its setters no longer need to set it up passively. Jirachi makes for a useful pivot thanks to its Steel-type and U-turn, while Orbeetle can combine it with Sticky Web.

Hyperspace Hole Tally

Z-nogyroP: 12
Dead by Daylight: 9
PalpitoadChamp: 9

Congratulations to our winners! Now, onto our next slate:

Slate 32: Personal [RNG]sus​

When it comes to competitive Pokemon, consistency is key; after all, you want to be able to reliably execute your strategy. Magnitude, Acupressure and Petal Dance mainly suffer from being inconsistent in some way, whether it be random BP, relying on the right stat getting a boost or potentially getting locked into a move for an extra, key turn. Special note:

• Getting rid of Acupressure's chance to boost evasion isn't strictly necessary, but keep it in mind depending on how you buff the move.​

~~~​

As usual, you all have one week to adjust these moves. Keep the basic rules in mind, but otherwise get out there and Bust a Move!

 

[Z-nogyroP]

Move Name: Petal Dance
Type: Grass
Category: Special
BP: 120 -> 80
Acc: 100%
PP: 10
Effect: 50% chance to raise the user's Sp. Attack.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Grass-type Fiery Dance, because why should Volcarona have all the fun? Oricorio has actual coverage now.

Move Name: Magnitude
Type: Ground
Category: Physical
BP: --
Acc: 100%
PP: 30 -> 10
Effect: Power depends on how much the user outweighs the target, calculated the same way as Heavy Slam. Power is no longer halved in Grassy Terrain.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Ground-type Heavy Slam. A lot of Ground-types are insanely heavy, and ones like Mudsdale and Groudon can make use of the extra power against 90% of their targets. Copperajah gets a bonus listing because it actually runs Heavy Metal sometimes.

Move Name: Acupressure
Type: Normal
Category: Status
BP: --
Acc: --
PP: 30 -> 10
Effect: Raises the user's Attack, Sp. Atk, and Speed. Lowers the user's Defense and Sp. Def.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Toned down Shell Smash. Mega Medicham and Barraskewda are the most potentially problematic users but hopefully given it's essentially a slightly worse Dragon Dance for them and it makes them more priority-susceptible it shouldn't be too bad.

 

[PalpitoadChamp]

Name: Magnitude
Type: Ground
Category: Physical
BP: ---
Acc: 100%
PP: 20 (32)
Effect: Deals damage equal to the user's level. Hits and deals 2x damage to pokemon underground due to Dig.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Ground Seismic Toss. Allows bulkier pokemon like Steelix or Aggron-Mega have a reliable attack as they have not very strong.

Name: Acupressure
Type: Normal
Category: Status
BP: ---
Acc: ---%
PP: 20 (48)
Effect: Raises the user's lowest stat by 2.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Cool move based on Joltemons Moody.

Most likely won't do Petal Dance.

 

[koista12]

Snip

FYI, I was curious and did the math and Acupressure will allow Mega Medicham to boost its Atk to 1100 in a single turn by purposefully pumping SpAtk and bulk EVs and running a Timid nature. While probably not the worst thing because it would only have 440 Atk otherwise, you may want to remove Medicham as a learner of the move in this situation. Funny interaction, otherwise cool sub.

 

[Rasdanation]

Name: Petal Dance
Type:

BP: 80
Acc: 100%
PP: 5 [Max 8]
Effect: Doubles damage if the user has higher Special Defense than the target. (Dance)
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Petal Dance is just Outrage, but Outrage thrived in being the strongest Dragon-type physical attack. Petal Dance lacks this opportunity, with the presence of the far more common and stronger Leaf Storm. So, here is my solution: implement a FRend/BBeak-esque mechanic. Special Defense being the compared stat instead of comparing who goes first seems rather fair, as mons who want to run this move now may need to invest in extra special bulk in order to ensure they get that power boost from 80 to 160.