CAP 2 Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Poll 2

[Deck Knight]

Yes, I wanted Magic Guard until we determined the stats.

Even though Levitate might be a signature Ghost ability, we are trying to create NEW ORIGINAL pokemon. I feel Levitate is the most unoriginal ability out there. It's basically add a free Ground immunity to anything, which not everything needs. There were people who wanted Levitate on Syclant even though it resisted Ground already. I'm sorry but Levitate is the easy way out on abilities. It was novel in RSE, but now it isn't.

And to tier, people will vote for the BST they want. I'm already going to probably exclude anything above 545 BST. This is the start of a new generation. We need a few solid, average OU strength Pokemon (5-10) to start it out with. We can add in a trio (580 BST), the 600 BST legends, and the BL/UU Pokemon later. That is, unless people vote for a BL/UU Stat total this time.

Also, you can't exactly make a UU Pokemon. Heracross has some of the lowest Stat Totals in the game, yet it is still OU. UU is determined by usage, which we have been proven to inaccurately predict (Rhyperior/Tentacruel).

Heracross only has a low stat total because its SA is 40. If you completely removed SA from the equation then on a scale relative to Base 600s (now 500), Heracross would have 460 BST.

 

[Rhykune]

Just to clarify, if these votes continue, this is going to go to another poll right?

 

[eric the espeon]

I remember you saying Syclant is still too powerful. Also, remember everyone who wanted Magic Guard on him? Cooper nixed that. I'm doing the same here.

yea, i agree cooper made the ight choice not to put magic gard (or shiver) on the polls, but levitate is diferent. it is a common ghost ability and though i would say its not a good idea to keep on repeting old abilitys, if the artwork fits, and the stats seam fair, it should be an option.

also i think i said it is "close to being unbalenced".

Another reason for me not including Levitate is that it is one of the most common abilities, period. It is up there in the ranks of Pressure, Chlorophyll, and Swift Swim.

true, but just cos its been used before dosent mean we cant use it again, i say let smogon chose.

However, I'm going to have to agree that Levitate is a pretty signature Ghost ability. Of all the Ghosts in the game (even the per-evos, but not Arceus), 7 out of 18 have it, and most of those remaining have Pressure. I agree with not including Levitate as an option for a Ghost/Steel, which would leave it with only one weakness, but on a Ghost/Fire, it has plenty of other weaknesses to balance it out. And with that typing, it's pretty much guaranteed to be a Gengar-like sweeper. Stick Levitate into the poll.

i agree with this, (exept for the bit about not even puting it as an option on ghost/steel, bronzong gets it and hes fine, so long as we avoid this haveing 130/120/120 defences it will not be broken) if people want to vote for an unoriginal ability why stop them? its about whitch one is more popular, not what you think has been done before.

Even though Levitate might be a signature Ghost ability, we are trying to create NEW ORIGINAL pokemon.
argue againt it in the polls if you want , but your job is to be impartial, and you should put up all options that have support+will not be broken.
I feel Levitate is the most unoriginal ability out there. It's basically add a free Ground immunity to anything, which not everything needs.
true, i am not keen on it myself, but it should be there as an option.
There were people who wanted Levitate on Syclant even though it resisted Ground already.
not many people. anyway if it floats levitate should be an option. if not fine, dont have it.
I'm sorry but Levitate is the easy way out on abilities. It was novel in RSE, but now it isn't.
its not about whats "novel" or even what is useful, its about what fits with the sprite, and is popular.

 

[futuresuperstar]

Lay off Hyra, guys. I do not blame him for not wanting another Pokemon with Levitate, and face the facts: there are people here who will blindly vote for Levitate without any reasoning but "yay, Ground immunity," concept-driven or not.

Hyra, to please everybody, make the first ability poll not a "poll" and, instead, a posting vote like you did with "New Pokemon" vs. "Evolution." This way, people can vote for Levitate, but have to actually post and (in some cases) explain with reasoning. It'll help you avoid the mindless poll-voters that never say a word in the topics while still allowing you to be impartial and open to all ideas.

 

[eric the espeon]

Lay off Hyra, guys. I do not blame him for not wanting another Pokemon with Levitate, and face the facts: there are people here who will blindly vote for Levitate without any reasoning but "yay, Ground immunity," concept-driven or not.
i dont want another pokemon with levitate (unless it fits the artwork totaly and the other close to top options are stupid) but i think it should be an option.

Hyra, to please everybody, make the first ability poll not a "poll" and, instead, a posting vote like you did with "New Pokemon" vs. "Evolution." This way, people can vote for Levitate, but have to actually post and (in some cases) explain with reasoning. It'll help you avoid the mindless poll-voters that never say a word in the topics while still allowing you to be impartial and open to all ideas.
yea, i like this idea, but maybe add a running total (updated as often as hyra can) to help tactical voters? or maybe that would be too hard? and edit all abilitys mentiond into the first post.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Lay off Hyra, guys. I do not blame him for not wanting another Pokemon with Levitate, and face the facts: there are people here who will blindly vote for Levitate without any reasoning but "yay, Ground immunity," concept-driven or not.

So saying it most likely be a floating suit of armor isn't a good reason to give it Leviate[kidding]

Hyra, to please everybody, make the first ability poll not a "poll" and, instead, a posting vote like you did with "New Pokemon" vs. "Evolution." This way, people can vote for Levitate, but have to actually post and (in some cases) explain with reasoning. It'll help you avoid the mindless poll-voters that never say a word in the topics while still allowing you to be impartial and open to all ideas.

I think Hyra would already had that in mind since that's the most logically way of not having a pokemon with an broken ability or etc.

 

[eric the espeon]

hyra you are going to wait till the art is chosen before the ability poll arent you? please do.

 

[Cooper]

There would have to be a list of abilities to choose from though. Not everyone has all the logical ones memorized, or can open a second window to the Ability dex. Obviously Levitate, Pressure (lol), and Flash Fire, but that's only three.

 

[Xênaz]

Ghost-Fire would still be cool, but I want a Ghost-Normal uber. :D

 

[Cooper]

hyra you are going to wait till the art is chosen before the ability poll arent you? please do.

Sadly I already have a design in mind....

 

[eric the espeon]

hyra you are going to wait till the art is chosen before the ability poll arent you? please do.

Sadly I already have a design in mind....

urm... what does that mean? we are going to do ability before we know what it looks like? again? that, and the type bit, where the only problams with the first one.
or do you mean you have some artwork planned?

There would have to be a list of abilities to choose from though. Not everyone has all the logical ones memorized, or can open a second window to the Ability dex. Obviously Levitate, Pressure (lol), and Flash Fire, but that's only three.

yea, i would say hyra should put all the ones he can think of that have been mentiond (bar broken, e.g. wondergaurd or stupid e.g. run away) in the first post, and edit in anything else that is voted for.

 

[Hyra]

hyra you are going to wait till the art is chosen before the ability poll arent you? please do.

Of course. Art is going to open at the same time as the role poll. It gives the artists an idea of what to draw, and the rolls will include bulky/light/fast etc. once we get past offense, defense, or balanced/support.

So saying it most likely be a floating suit of armor isn't a good reason to give it Leviate[kidding]

I think Hyra would already had that in mind since that's the most logically way of not having a pokemon with an broken ability or etc.

I actually hadn't thought that far ahead, because ability is coming after Base Stats. Base Stats will be done this way, and Ability is another good option for this format.

There would have to be a list of abilities to choose from though. Not everyone has all the logical ones memorized, or can open a second window to the Ability dex. Obviously Levitate, Pressure (lol), and Flash Fire, but that's only three.

I'll know more once we have art. Yeah, abilities are really dependent on how something looks.

 

[Cooper]

or do you mean you have some artwork planned?

Yes. I'm thinking Bongo Bongo~ish.

So the next poll is going to be for role, which marks the beginning of the art competition, then picking art, then ability?

 

[eric the espeon]

great, all that looks good hyra

edit:

So the next poll is going to be for role, which marks the beginning of the art competition, then picking art, then ability?

no. i think we need to give the artists some time to draw. from what i see it will go type, start art thread, function, chose art, stats, ability.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

I actually hadn't thought that far ahead, because ability is coming after Base Stats. Base Stats will be done this way, and Ability is another good option for this format.

BST done via the same way we did the main type....interesting. I can see it now, people would post their BST and then have to explain and back up why they think their BST would do. People with absurb BST are weeding out and/or broke down and the ones with more reasonable number could be discussed and talked about. This same idea can be done with Ability once we know what the damn pokemon looks like.

 

[Hyra]

BST done via the same way we did the main type....interesting. I can see it now, people would post their BST and then have to explain and back up why they think their BST would do. People with absurb BST are weeding out and/or broke down and the ones with more reasonable number could be discussed and talked about. This same idea can be done with Ability once we know what the damn pokemon looks like.

Not exactly. I will do the Base Stat PM's like Cooper did, and people will argue for which one they prefer. It will also allow us to tweak these Base Stats a little.

If everyone could submit their own, all options would have 1 vote.

 

[Luck]

Also, you can't exactly make a UU Pokemon. Heracross has some of the lowest Stat Totals in the game, yet it is still OU. UU is determined by usage, which we have been proven to inaccurately predict (Rhyperior/Tentacruel).

This true Breloom and Skarmory have pretty low stats,While Arcanine has one of the higher stats of any non legend and starters.Nintendo make pokes for different reasons they make some poke to look cute and sell dolls,fit a theme,sell a movie or be competitive. If we were trying to fill those needs it would make sense to make all ranges of pokes but more than like these pokes will never see a video game and will be use them for online battling.It would be terrible create great design and cool poke but we dummy down the stats and pokemon never gets used.

The number one goal should be creating competitive pokes for unique types combos.If we try to create OU poke and it falls UU fine but we create UU and falls to NU ,we waste time creating a poke that will never be used.I guess we could go back and change the stats but to me that feels like it is defeating process.OU is the most played part, why create something and not use it.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Not exactly. I will do the Base Stat PM's like Cooper did, and people will argue for which one they prefer. It will also allow us to tweak these Base Stats a little.

Okay...I'm understanding you now and I think that be a great idea. Be interesting to see how that turn out...hopefully not crazy talk or etc lol.

 

[Hyra]

This true Breloom and Skarmory have pretty low stats,While Arcanine has one of the higher stats of any non legend and starters.Nintendo make pokes for different reasons they make some poke to look cute and sell dolls,fit a theme,sell a movie or be competitive. If we were trying to fill those needs it would make sense to make all ranges of pokes but more than like these pokes will never see a video game and will be use them for online battling.It would be terrible create great design and cool poke but we dummy down the stats and pokemon never gets used.

The number one goal should be creating competitive pokes for unique types combos.If we try to create OU poke and it falls UU fine but we create UU and falls to NU ,we waste time creating a poke that will never be used.I guess we could go back and change the stats but to me that feels like it is defeating process.OU is the most played part, why create something and not use it.

My point exactly. Thank you light for putting this into words.

Edit:
Tweak means under a 5 Base Stat point change.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

85/85/85/85/85/85 = 510
----------------------------
90/90/90/90/90/90 = 540

Just a little trivial BST I just wanted to point it but I guess if you heavy duty tweak those two out you can make some seriously fierce creature.

 

[KoA]

I'm awaiting the art poll with bated breath. :>

 

[eric the espeon]

85/85/85/85/85/85 = 510
----------------------------
90/90/90/90/90/90 = 540

Just a little trivial BST I just wanted to point it but I guess if you heavy duty tweak those two out you can make some seriously fierce creature.

a 90/90/90/90/90/90 pokemon is not overly threaterning, we have 100/100/100/100/100/100 pokemon on OU already.

and the + tweaks will be partly canceled out by - tweaks

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

a 90/90/90/90/90/90 pokemon is not overly threaterning, we have 100/100/100/100/100/100 pokemon on OU already.

and the + tweaks will be partly canceled out by - tweaks

The main reason why I posted those two was because they make nice comfy numbers to use when making some BST for people, not to be actually used. Take the 90/90/90/90/90 one for example, if the pokemon was decided to become a fast special sweeper then you can easily take like 80+ from atk and def, dump 40 into sp. atk and speed and have a pokemon with 90/50/50/130/90/130 and still have a BST of 540

 

[Lorak]

Regarding the sprite... why didn't Porygon, Beldum and Magnemite's lines get Levitate, then? I thought it should have a Ground immunity, in some respect, ever since Stadium. The only thing it ever got in that respect was Magnet Rise. :|

great, all that looks good hyra

edit:

no. i think we need to give the artists some time to draw. from what i see it will go type, start art thread, function, chose art, stats, ability.

Depends on how good you want your artists drawing. I had doodled based on random ideas I had during the past few threads, although they weren't too detailed:

Just saying...

 

[Hyra]

The main reason why I posted those two was because they make nice comfy numbers to use when making some BST for people, not to be actually used. Take the 90/90/90/90/90 one for example, if the pokemon was decided to become a fast special sweeper then you can easily take like 80+ from atk and def, dump 40 into sp. atk and speed and have a pokemon with 90/50/50/130/90/130 and still have a BST of 540

Actually you could just take 80 from attack. Lol, its fun making broken spreads.