Unpopular opinions

Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
And like I said, they tend to have more balanced elemental charts to justify that.View attachment 447075n
People been keeping talking about how GF started to treat newer Pokémon with better viability in mind.

Guess what? Too many newer Ice-type Pokémon to count suffered the same problem as older Ice Pokémon, and not just because of the problem with the type itself. It’s just one of the examples that made me shake my head in disbelief, since it only truly applies to Legendary Pokémon and Mythical Pokémon in terms of later Pokémon having viability in mind… even then, it’s not always consistent either (i.e. Zamazenta).
 
The funnier thing is, Ice was a fine type Gen 1. Gen 2 it was still fine, same with early 3 comp
It crashed hard when Gen 4s powercreep and hyper coverage made Ice's already many weaknesses more accessible. Fighting getting better didn't help, and Hail is a garbage weather type. Despite this, Weavile and Mamoswine did decently, though Abomasnow suffered

Then after GF randomly didn't take from those 2, and every ice type after is still slow and frail

Seriously, have it resist Grass, Ground, and Flying too if you're so adament on it being defensive. EQ resist is nice long term
 
If the Ice type’s biggest problem is that they are too slow to take advantage of their offensive type, I was thinking Hail should buff speed of any Ice type by 50% when it is active . That would also make Slush Rush sweepers significantly more effectively because it would be a 2.5 boost to speed since a lot of Slush rush sweepers are considerably slow. Or make Freeze/Frostbite more common, since that would give Ice types a legitimately good defensive niche. On the topic of weather, I always found it odd that Hail was the only weather that doesn’t boost an attribute of a type like the others do. I just find it inconsistent and they should give Ice types a weather effect just for sake of consistency.
 
On the topic of weather, I always found it odd that Hail was the only weather that doesn’t boost an attribute of a type like the others do. I just find it inconsistent and they should give Ice types a weather effect just for sake of consistency.
In my hack, cuz Hail was too rigid, I used MD's passive weather Snow alongside it, with Snow boosting Ice Type speed, and slowing down Water and Dragon speed (unless dual typed with Ice)
Hail still sucks, but at least there's an alt
 
Then after GF randomly didn't take from those 2, and every ice type after is still slow and frail
:darmanitan-galar:

I genuinely believe that Gamefreak thinks adding Darm-G counts as a "buff" to the Ice-type. There's no other reason they'd make it so obviously overtuned. The same goes for the creation of Aurora Veil and the increase in distribution to the other Snow Warning users in Gen 8 (though Aurora Veil is only overtuned when used by Ninetales-A specifically).
 
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That's cuz those guys are good for reasons that have nothing to do with strictly being Ice.

Having STAB Earthquake is good (see RBY Rhydon, DPP Gliscor, Hippowdon and Swampert, Landorus-T and Dugtrio)

Having STAB priority is good (see Scizor)

Having STAB Pursuit is good (see Tyranitar)

Having a 125 Speed tier is good
I mean those help, but the Ice STABs definitely play a role in their performance regardless, and the other factors listed play in tandem with the Ice Attacks, not in-spite of them. Same way I'd note a LOT of the mons you listed prior were good for reasons synergistic with the traits listed moreso than any one being high up (Dugtrio is carried by Arena Trap, Scizor's defensive profile is why that Priority is big for it, Ttar has Sand, etc.)

These Pokemon would not strictly be better if they were not Ice-Types, rather they're a rare instance of GF actually designing to the strength of Ice (ie Offense) instead of crowbarring them into a role that continuously fails to work.
 

Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
I mean those help, but the Ice STABs definitely play a role in their performance regardless, and the other factors listed play in tandem with the Ice Attacks, not in-spite of them. Same way I'd note a LOT of the mons you listed prior were good for reasons synergistic with the traits listed moreso than any one being high up (Dugtrio is carried by Arena Trap, Scizor's defensive profile is why that Priority is big for it, Ttar has Sand, etc.)

These Pokemon would not strictly be better if they were not Ice-Types, rather they're a rare instance of GF actually designing to the strength of Ice (ie Offense) instead of crowbarring them into a role that continuously fails to work.
And lo and behold, Weavile managed to stay in OU throughout Gen 8 when it came back, particularly thanks to Triple Axel which is essentially a better Triple Kick by having higher BP and effective BP alone. The other only Ice-type prior of base Kyurem’s ban (and Kyurem-Black‘s banishment before it) was Alolan Ninetales due to being a fast Aurora Veil setter.

Speaking of Aurora Veil, I feel like that Aurora Veil is overcompensating Ice and Hail’s problems despite working well, as it ended up making such problems even more apparant instead of actually fixing some of these problems in question.

Galarian Darmanitan doing Ice’s offensive oriented specialty worked too well due to Gorilla Tactics, we can all agree with that.
 
Speaking of Aurora Veil, I feel like that Aurora Veil is overcompensating Ice and Hail’s problems despite working well, as it ended up making such problems even more apparant instead of actually fixing some of these problems in question.
I feel similarly. Other weathers get most of their value as a team style from Abilities, which in turn means that they make heavy use of specific types those abilities are often found on. On the other hand, Aurora Veil is completely unattached to Hail once set up, so it being the primary effect you're running a Snow Warning mon for means there's less of a reason to invest in actual Hail synergy or other ice-tyeps. It says a lot that Ninetales-A runs Light Clay over Icy Rock most of the time even on Mono-Ice teams.
 
What's the point of a slow horse!? :facepalm:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_horse

In fact, Glastrier and Spectrier are pretty nice complementary pets for a noble: Spectrier was the horse he likely ride to hunt and get around the countryside, possibly also in battle, while Glastrier likely used to pull his wagons and (if applicable) do work in his gardens and farms.

Mudsdale is also based on draft horses for what matters, and in Alola it was usually seen as either doing farmwork or carrying people around as well.
 
Draft horses are big horses used for stuff like plowing and pull carts. Maybe Calyrex did the same for Glastrier?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_horse

In fact, Glastrier and Spectrier are pretty nice complementary pets for a noble: Spectrier was the horse he likely ride to hunt and get around the countryside, possibly also in battle, while Glastrier likely used to pull his wagons and (if applicable) do work in his gardens and farms.

Mudsdale is also based on draft horses for what matters, and in Alola it was usually seen as either doing farmwork or carrying people around as well.
Y'know... some times y'all take things too literally. In the context of discussing the Ice-type mons, most of which are based on icebergs and glaciers, a horse would be an unique opportunity to have a pokémon that breaks the usual archetype when it comes to stats.

Also, a slow horse had just been introduced a gen prior, there was no need to double down on it.

Furthermore, in Calyhead's own words...

"The very same Pokémon that my statue in the village shows me riding. Alas, though in ancient times we spent many days together, dashing through the valleys and over the mountains of this land...
Glastrier was *not* a draft horse. The only reason it's slow as molasses is because it's Ice-type.
 

Coronis

Impressively round
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Yeah I always thought Glastrier being Ice made sense but would’ve preferred a fast physical mon, though we already had that with Darm-G so I guess that’s their excuse. Sure made it easy to pick Spectrier for my horsey tho.

Just saw its Shield dex entry, makes me feel bad for ever fusing with Calyrex.

As it dashes through the night, Spectrier absorbs the life-force of sleeping creatures. It craves silence and solitude.

Then again, it is absorbing life force so it shouldn’t get what it craves. Bad horsey.
 
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Furthermore, in Calyhead's own words...

"The very same Pokémon that my statue in the village shows me riding. Alas, though in ancient times we spent many days together, dashing through the valleys and over the mountains of this land..."
Glastrier was *not* a draft horse. The only reason it's slow as molasses is because it's Ice-type.
It's the same Calyrex that is astonished by a bag. Perhaps it's easily impressionable.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but while they CAN be ridden, the description of Draft Horses seems like they were meant to pull and move loads rather than carry a rider in a saddle. Given the Horse Pokemon here were designed as Calyrex's steeds, Glastrier as a saddle-ridden Pokemon feels like no one thought about what they were designing besides "Horse!" if it was supposed to be a Draft Horse; or more likely they just gave it a horse design and then the design team made the Glacial Statline because Ice-Type, and the Draft Horse idea is just us trying to rationalize an annoying Gamefreak Tradition post-hoc.

If they had actually done something with the design like put Calyrex in a Cart drawn behind Glastrier, I'd believe this was an intentional design choice. As is, it's just Gamefreak doing the simple imagery of "Dude on Horse is cool" and not reconciling the writing with the Pokemon they wrote in.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

On to new Horizons!
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
It's also worth noting that in the context of Crown Tundra's campaign, Calyrex couldn't even remember what its steed originally looked like. It lost so much of its power over the years and even its memories of what it did with its steed are unclear even to itself.

For the sake of the game's campaign you are only allowed to choose one of the steeds but it is entirely possible in reality that Glastrier was indeed a "draft horse" during its time and that Calyrex had both horses and they each served different purposes for it. Calyrex lost most of its power and with it most of its memories, even to a point where it is easily impressed by modern humans and their capacity for innovation because its loss of power left it estranged from the Pokemon world for a looooong time. So of course, it can easily be perceived that Glastrier did act as a draft horse once upon a time while Spectrier was a fast war horse back then.

Also more importantly, stats aren't everything, but looking at the SwSh website and Glastrier's page, it also says this:

Nimble movements are not Glastrier’s strong suit. But it can use the cold exuded from its hooves to freeze the ground, letting it shoot off sliding across the ice to close distances in a flash during battle.
So Glastrier hypothetically *can* move quickly if it wants to and act as a war horse as well. It can freeze the ground into solid ice at will and move more quickly across distances by creating an ice field then glide across it. So if Calyrex did use Glastrier as a war horse, it can create ice fields with Glastrier and use the slipperiness of ice to glide across the battlefield at a quick pace.

As for the stats, they definitely seemed to want to do an "antithesis" stat lineup between Glastrier and Spectrier: Glastrier is slow, bulky, and a physical attacker, while Spectrier is fast, frail, and a special attacker.

I'd also like to note on the competitive side of things that Glastrier took off very well in VGC and Doubles, and Game Freak definitely looks at the Doubles format as a priority for many mons they design for competitive battles. In Doubles, Glastrier makes a fantastic Trick Room sweeper, as its slow Speed allows it to outpace just about everything under Trick Room, it has the bulk to take a hit, and it can immediately give itself a +2 Attack boost with Weakness Policy using its bulk and the weaknesses of its typing to take a super effective hit and trigger it, all the while it has Chilling Neigh to boost its Attack each time it gets a KO, making it a deadly Trick Room sweeper. It also has a very good offensive movepool with the coverage to back up its excellent Ice STAB. It is much less effective in Singles because Trick Room is a less effective strategy there, but in Doubles Glastrier can excel as a Trick Room sweeper, especially since it can always work with a partner like Cresselia or Dusclops to help it set up TR. It has its place, and is very much usable in its own right, but its capabilities are by nature more suited to Doubles than Singles.
 
Is it an unpopular opinion not to hate Glastrier's low Speed, but disliking the fact it doesn't learn Ice Shard?
Amongst smogoners, maybe.

As ScraftyIsTheBest said, Glastrier has however had pretty solid success in VGC, and Caly-Ice also has been having success recently. After the "new toy syndrome" for everyone running calyS+zacian expired, Trick room teams with Caly-Ice + Palkia or Necrozma have eventually been showing up, so the reception for the "slow bulky ice type" hasnt been that bad.
If it learned a priority move it'd definitely have been MUCH stronger but alas, that isnt the case.
 

Ema Skye

Work!
Dark and Steel types overaddressed the Psychic-type problem in Gen 1.

The biggest problem with Psychic (the move) are that it had a 33% chance to lower special. No other Psychic move was anywhere near problematic. Splitting up the special stats and lowering the effect rate made the move much easier to deal with.

The problem with Psychic (the type) isn't its resists, especially when they don't have a ridiculously spamable move anymore (Gen 1 Psychic is probably as spamable as Scald). The problem is that its weaknesses never had a chance to combat it. Bug and Ghost had next to no viable STAB moves in Gen 1 (even if Lick was super effective). Gen 2 tried to address this with Megahorn and Shadow Ball, but only one of the Pokemon with STAB on these moves isn't weak to Psychic, so they kinda failed there.

If they really wanted more defensive counterplay to it, adding another resist is probably fine if they did the first step and make more Bug/Ghosts not weak to Psychic. Dark being resistant to Psychic instead of immune isn't that different from where we are now, and leaves them from trying to create the optimal defensive type in Steel that I should probably complain about in another unpopular opinion.
 
Is it an unpopular opinion not to hate Glastrier's low Speed, but disliking the fact it doesn't learn Ice Shard?
Wait, it doesn't!? :smogduck:

Dark and Steel types overaddressed the Psychic-type problem in Gen 1.

The biggest problem with Psychic (the move) are that it had a 33% chance to lower special. No other Psychic move was anywhere near problematic. Splitting up the special stats and lowering the effect rate made the move much easier to deal with.

The problem with Psychic (the type) isn't its resists, especially when they don't have a ridiculously spamable move anymore (Gen 1 Psychic is probably as spamable as Scald). The problem is that its weaknesses never had a chance to combat it. Bug and Ghost had next to no viable STAB moves in Gen 1 (even if Lick was super effective). Gen 2 tried to address this with Megahorn and Shadow Ball, but only one of the Pokemon with STAB on these moves isn't weak to Psychic, so they kinda failed there.

If they really wanted more defensive counterplay to it, adding another resist is probably fine if they did the first step and make more Bug/Ghosts not weak to Psychic. Dark being resistant to Psychic instead of immune isn't that different from where we are now, and leaves them from trying to create the optimal defensive type in Steel that I should probably complain about in another unpopular opinion.
Agreed, except for the Steel part.

I guess I don't actually mind Steel because it doesn't really have an offensive presence. I find it much more palatable than Fairy.
 

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