Pokemon Scarlet & Violet - 18th Nov 2022! **OFFICIAL INFO ONLY**

I know the answer is yes, but I want to ask anyway.

Other Metagames don't always stick to how the cartridge work, so will there be a Metagame that adds the Pokemon's Tera Type to their Original Type instead of replacing it? The speculation and theorycrafting for Tera Type replacing the Original Type, like it will in SV, isn't chaotic enough. >:D
 
The trade off is more in favor of the trapped Pokemon than the trapper in this case.

In what way is it more in favor for them.

If you do Terastallize Magnezone, you can’t Terastallize any of your teammates (which if you think about makes it so Magnezone is kind of obsolete. Why Terastallize Magnezone to beat Steel types when any offensive Pokemon can do that?).

Magnezone is about removing steels. If removing steels enables your other teammates really well, it is well worth the use of tera to do so. Especially because big steels like Heatran are notoriously hard to remove and doing so opens up a lot of dangerous pokemon.

The same can be said for Terastallizing Ferrothorn, but Terastallizing Ferrothorn is much better than having a dead Ferrothorn, even if the typing is worse on a general basis.

I-
*insert screaming into hands GIF here*

No it isn't. You give up that typing on Ferro and now it fails to check what it was put on a team to handle. Which opens up huge holes in your team defensively.

However, there is still the silver lining in that Magnezone teams use Magnezone to break past Steel types that otherwise wall that Pokemon. You don’t have to Terastallize your Steel types every game, just only when you need to.

Steel types are the best defensive typing in the game. Giving that up to escape Magnezone is the same as it dying to Magnezone because it now fails to do what it was put on a team to do.

Like if you are facing a Sun team, there is no reason to have Ferrothorn remain Grass/Steel. You might as well make it resistant to Sun boosted Fire attacks so it’s more impactful.

You don't get to choose what type you tera into mid battle. You choose that in the builder.

Also Body Press sets would still be better because they are useful afterwards.

Zone doesn't have to be useful afterwards. Its role is to kill steels for its allies to go crazy. So no body press sets would not be better.
 
I mean while your mag-volc-heatran only metagame sounds fun I do think the theorymonning is getting a bit too much. Tera might be busted, more probable than it being bad for sure, but we barely know anything about the 10 pokemon we've seen, half of the assumptions are "if x works like y", and we dont even know if volcarona is going to be in this game
 
I mean while your mag-volc-heatran only metagame sounds fun I do think the theorymonning is getting a bit too much. Tera might be busted, more probable than it being bad for sure, but we barely know anything about the 10 pokemon we've seen, half of the assumptions are "if x works like y", and we dont even know if volcarona is going to be in this game

What are we supposed to talk about then? Lol. This thread is for speculation talk.
 
Just a thought, if Terastal is broken because of Tera Blast granting unpredictable coverage, would it be better to ban Terastal completely or just ban Tera Blast? I feel like Tera Blast is a part of Terastal, so I'd probably want to ban Terastal completly, even if the Defensive part is cool.

Maybe we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves. Remember, Tera Blast may be practically useless without Terastal and Terastallising to a different type makes you lose STAB on your main moves, so stuff you threatened before may be able to counter you.
Considering the tiering action Smogon has taken lately, between banning Dynamax in its entity, banning speed boosting abilities in weather in Gen 5, and banning Gems in Gen 5, I'd imagine that they would axe Tera in its entity if it is broken. There are a lot of cases where broken elements sneak into a playstyle or strategy even after its nerfed (i.e Speed boosting abilities + weather in Gen 5, ultra nerfed Baton Pass, etc.) so it may save the playerbase some time to just axe the mechanic early on instead of forcing them to adapt to a nerfed version of the strategy. Then again, other times strategies are sufficiently nerfed by the presence of bans to not make them overbearing (i.e. Dual Screens in UU) so only time will tell. There is a lot about the mechanic we don't even know, which may make it more / less overbearing in practice.
If you're using Tera Blast, you might as well have a Tera Type that helps with their coverage. All of Klinklang's Non-Normal Attacks other than Assurance, Power Gem, and Rock Smash are resisted by Electric and Lilligant's Non-Normal Attacks are either used by Nature Power with Terrain up or are resisted by Fire and Steel... Holy crap, their movesets SUCK! They're going to Tera most of the time just to change into Types that have coverage. They really need Terastal to not be broken just so they can rise from terrible to merely being bad.

Also, Jolteon is way better than those two because it has Shadow Ball and already has Hyper Voice if he really wants a Normal Attack.
Yeah, I agree. In Lilligant and Klinklang's case, they function as sweepers, so Tera may be extra powerful on them late game, since they can dynamically break down their checks. However, if Tera Blast has decent Base Power, then they can just use it as a standard attack and not really lose out on anything by running it (even if they don't tera) since their other options are quite bleak.

Also, while Jolteon's movepool is technically better than Klinklang / Lilligant, its still pretty bottom of the barrel. Keep in mind that its not running Hyper Voice / Shadow Ball because it wants to, but because they are one of few "coverage" options it has. It probably would still keep running Shadow Ball, but I'd imagine it'll be able to run Tera Blast with little to no drawback if it wanted to.
 
What are we supposed to talk about then? Lol. This thread is for speculation talk.

It's literally not for that at all. We allow some minor speculation about known information but a lot of this is trying to guess how Tera works without any real data. Like others have said, theorymonning with a mechanic where we don't even strictly know how big the boost is or how Tera beam works is kind of a pointless exercise for now.

The information from world's was interesting but we'll probably close the thread again later today as we've exhausted most of the major topics.
 
To make a long post about Tera Types, here is a list of current OU mons and with some note worthy lower tiers that will at least bump with a few tiers upwards.

[Pokemon]
Usage on Team: Dedicated Tera User, Used Highly, Moderately Used, Niche Situations, Just Don't
How it's used: * (Super STAB), ^ (Coverage STAB), " (Defensively)

:ss/Barraskewda:
Tera Types: Water*, Fighting^, Psychic^
Barraskewda is a Pokemon that can be fierce under rain, but I think Terastallizing could be used better on Rain teams. Thing is that Barraskewda already hits hard with its Water STAB and has good coverage, so it wouldn't need it as much, and Tera Grass is surprisingly a great Tera type to have, along with Water.

:ss/Bisharp:
Tera Types: Dark*", Steel"*, Flying"^, Ghost"
Bisharp is more of an ideal user of Terastallizing. It would utilize the mechanic both offensively and defensively. The coloration here looks weird, but because of the use cases for each type. Like for example, you more often will use Dark on Bisharp on more offensive teams because Dark is a pretty great offensive typing and is decently defensive as well, but defensively is more niche. Dark being one of the better Tera types for Bisharp since Dark STAB is only resisted by Fairy. Steel is an alternative, but more if you care about Bisharp's defensive utility while making Iron Heads incredibly strong (at the expense of Dark STAB). Flying would mostly be used defensively since Flying compliments Bisharp well, but offensively would require you to use Tera Blast and any Pokemon with Tera Blast has to be the dedicated user of Tera types on teams, but would be useful against Fighting. Lastly, Ghost would be better than Flying defensively, but would purely be defensive since Dark pretty much does the same job anyways.

:ss/Blacephalon:
Tera Types: Fire*, Ghost*", Ground^", Fighting^, Ice^, Dark"
Blacephalon is very much a niche user of Terastallizing. It's because it's not lacking in power by any means and Terastallizing it is very risky due to its low survivability. The best you can do is super power one of your STABs, give yourself coverage for Tyranitar, Heatran, and Dragonite, or weaken a Shadow Sneak/Sucker Punch so you aren't immediately revenge killed. But overall, you want to use something else.

:ss/Blissey:
Tera Type: Ghost", Fairy", Water", Steel", Poison", Flying", Ground", Grass", Really any type besides like Ice, Bug, and Rock
Blissey is one of the Pokemon that owns Terastallizng. It's a very customizable Pokemon suited for many teams that need to wall out any Pokemon it so desires on the special side. It normally does this, but now it can be more effective at walling special attackers and can use Tera Types to have better match-ups against some physical attackers. Most notable being the Fighting type moves like Close Combat most Pokemon have. Ghost and Fairy alleviate its original weakness of Fighting, although while also making it weak to other types. Ghost and Fairy definitely compliment Normal the most, but most other types work on Blissey depending on your team. Sadly, there isn't much use of Terastallizing Blissey for offensive reasons.

:ss/Buzzwole:
Tera Type: Steel", Electric"^, Fighting*
Buzzwole is another good user of Terastallizing. It has a unique typing making it useful as a tank thanks to its resistances. However, Buzzwole does suffer from a pretty exploitable typing with it being x4 weak to Flying, and also Fairy/Psychic/Fire. Thankfully, it has Steel and Electric to compliment those Weaknesses, especially Steel. Electric is notable because of Thunder Punch STAB against Flying types. Additionally, Buzzwole can use Fighting Super STAB effectively on Choice Band sets.

:ss/Clefable:
Tera Type: Fire"^, Steel", Fairy*, Electric"^, Ground"^
Clefable is an excellent user of Tera Types due Magic Guard. With Magic Guard, the user is capable of fully using the defensive utility of Fire and Flying without being Stealth Rock weak. On Clefable, Fire is probably the best Tera Type is can have because of this. It compliments Clefable well as it resists Steel and is neutral to Poison, but also keeps the resistance to Bug, resists Fairy/Ice/Grass/Fire, and gives Clefable STAB on Flamethrower/Fire Blast to threaten most Steel types. Steel is also pretty useful as it resists Steel and is immune to Poison, however it's now weak to Fire/Fighting/Ground. Still, can't go wrong with the best Defensive typing in the game. Fairy can be useful to give it effective Fairy Aura, and while it's good defensively, Clefable is Mono Fairy already so it has no defensive benefits. Electric is similar to Fire but more niche. And Ground can be useful defensively, but if you want to use it offensively Clefable either needs to learn Earthpower in SV or use Tera Blast. If Clefable learns Earthpower, Ground becomes between Fire and Steel.

:ss/Corviknight:
Tera Type: Dragon", Ground"
Corviknight isn't too interesting of a Tera user, but if some OMs have taught me is that Dragon and Ground compliment Flying/Steel pretty well. Not only that, but in case you need to escape Magnezone, you have this option as well.

:ss/Dragapult:
Tera Type: A Lot^"*
Dragapult is a Pokemon that already is borderline broken in OU already. Almost all metas that even slightly buff it ban Dragapult almost immediately because it's just on the edge of perfection by OU standards. Pokemon that are customizable are the best users of Terastallizing and Dragapult is a prime example. It might be a cop out to just say "A Lot" but going over how Dragapult can utilize different Mono types would be too wild. It has a wide arrange of coverage options and making its STABs strong is TERAfying terrifying. In SV, if it is in the Dex, I expect Dragapult to be PU (Possibly Ubers).

:ss/Dragonite:
Tera Type: Water"^, Steel"^, Ground"^, Fire"^, Poison", Fairy"
Yet again, we have a Pokemon that is a great user of Terastallizing due to its diversity, but not to the extent of Dragapult. It's also great because of Multiscale and its bulk. It makes Dragonite incrediblly hard to kill before it gets multiple boosts up, and Dragonite doesn't really mind forgoing STAB because it can muscle through most match-ups. Water is one of the best Tera types for Dragonite Foreshadowing because it resists it's archenemy Ice types. Additionally, Water gives Dragonite STAB on Aqua Tail/Waterfall. Steel has a niche as well for giving Dragonite a resistance to Ice AND Fairy, and also gives Iron Head STAB, but I say that Water has better STAB generally. If you are looking for purely defensive Dragonite, use Steel, Poison, or Fairy. Ground is also useful for Earthquake and is good defensively, but is weak to Ice. Fire is similar to Water, but you are still Rock weak and Fire Punch isn't as good as Aqua Tail or Aqua Jet.

:ss/Ferrothorn:
Tera Type: Fire", Water", Ghost", Fairy", Grass*"
Ferrothorn is now its own FireWaterGrass core on its own as it can use the starter typings pretty well, as well as Ghost or Fairy. Ferrothorn's usage with Terastalling is a bit moderate and more situational, like Fire being more for something to let Ferrothorn not be useless against Sun teams while also letting it escape Magnet Pull. Water does the former while being a good type in general. Ghost and Fairy let Ferrothorn deal with Fighting types when it has nothing else to really deal. Grass actually has a niche as Ferrothorn actually has a pretty scary Power Whip and would still like to resist Water and now resist Ground and be neutral to Fighting. It's still niche as Ferrothorn still likes using its original typing.

:ss/Garchomp:
Tera Type: Water"^, Steel"^, Ground*", Fire^"
A pretty infamous Pokemon that has been a staple of OU since Gen 5 after being unbanned. Of course one of the most influential Pokemon of all type will use this mechanic well. Resisting Ice of course is a neat bonus, especially with its coverage moves like Aqua Tail and Iron Head. Additionally, Super STAB Earthquake makes it incredibly strong. Fire here is more so for Garchomp to beat Skarmory/Corviknight while also resisting Ice, but you become Stealth Rock weak and makes your match up against Landorus-T worse.

:ss/Heatran:
Tera Type: Grass", Flying", Fairy", Ghost", Ground"^, Fire*
Another OU Staple that changed competitive forever. Heatran is great because of its original typing, but that doesn't mean it won't use Terastallizing well as it can patch up its exploitable weaknesses. Grass is by far the best Tera Type for Heatran. Not only does Grass compliment Fire/Steel well, but Heatran's ability in Flash Fire. This means Heatran will beat out other Heatrans in Heatran wars. While the same can be done with Flying while making you resist Fighting, Grass has the benefits of resisting Water and Electric. Water being an important resist due to many Pokemon wanting to become Water and so it's not dead weight against Rain teams. Fairy is a pretty neutral type that resists Fighting and appreciates the original Heatran typing. Same with Ghost. Ground is also useful in winning Heatran Wars but also lets it resist Rocks and because Earthpower is pretty good, though you are weak to Ice/Water/Grass. Last, is if you are running a Sun Team, Fire Heatran spamming Terastallized Eruptions/Fire Blasts under the Sun would be fun, but could be more useful on something else.

:ss/Kartana:
Tera Type: Rock^, Electric^, Flying^", Fighting^, Dark^, Grass*, Steel*
Kartana is a weird Pokemon with Tera Typing. Since Kartana is one of the few Pokemon you would want to have Tera Blast on, Rock, Electric, and Flying (assuming TB is stronger than Aerial Ace) would naturally make it more of a dedicated Terastallize user. This designation is only given to Pokemon that do so and Kartana does it three times with its preferred typings. Rock is good against Flying and Fire types. Electric is also good against Flying, but also Pokemon like Skarmory and Corviknight. Flying has the benefit of resisting Mach Punch while assisting it against bulky Grass and Bug types. You can also give yourself STAB and Super STAB. Despite honestly not being that interesting and being more dedicated, Kartana will like be PU (possibly Ubers) because it's also a nearly broken Pokemon.

:ss/Landorus-therian:
Tera Type: Water", Flying*, Ground*
Smogon Lion being blessed with ways to rid itself of its Ice weakness and it's Water weakness too. Water is definitely the way too go with defensive Landorus-T when the situation calls for it. If you want to, you can also run Flying with Tera Blast to give yourself great Flying/Ground coverage, or give your Earthquakes Super STAB. Other than that, there isn't much else in how to use Landorus-T.

:ss/Magnezone:
Tera Type: Flying", Fighting^
Honestly, Magnezone seems broken on paper, but is probably one of the most nerfed Pokemon thanks to this mechanic. It's sole job is to eliminate Steel types, which is made much harder when many Steel types can literally just flee and Tera Steel types like Garchomp would just rip Magnezone in half with Earthquake. Additionally, Terastallizing Magnezone is just terrible in most scenarios since Magnezone is meant to be a one trick pony, not last the entire game. If you do use it, use Flying or Fight with a Body Press set in hopes to do some damage. Just don't use it.

:ss/Melmetal:
Tera Type: Steel*
Metal Melmetal doubling down on Double Iron Bash is probably the best you can really do with Melmetal. It's already good as is and Terastallizing doesn't do much and in fact hinders its ability to spam DIB and being a tank in general. It's already practically invincible physically and would only really benefit from using Water, but you lose DIB STAB doing that.

:ss/Mew:
Tera Type: Literally 600 BST Arceus"^*
You know, this might be another copout, but you can literally just make Mew into anything. It's by far the most diverse Pokemon to use Tera Type and can be useful on any team similar to how Arceus is used.

:ss/Ninetales-alola:
Tera Type: I literally had to make a new tier of usage since Terastallizing Alolan Ninetales is one of the dumbest things you can actually do. But in if there was a scenario for Terastallizing Alolan Ninetales, it would be Dark or Steel
Literally never Terastallize Ninetales. You are throwing the game if you do. Even the scenarios like avoiding Prankster or maximizing bulk in the late game, just DON'T.

:ss/Pelipper:
Tera Type: Grass", Ground", Water*
Ok, now back to something potentially useful. Pelipper is the most important unit to Rain teams, and making it survive as long as possible to set Rain as much as it can is key to its success, but that's about it. Grass and Ground help with the Electric weakness so it can survive longer. Water can make it's Hydro Pump stronger and Stealth Rock neutral, but you're better off using other Pokemon for that.

:ss/Regieleki:
Tera Type: Grass^", Ice^, Electric*, Dark"^, Ghost"
Regieleki is pretty unique as a Tera abuser, but honestly it's pretty weak. Grass/Ice lets it beat Ground types like Hidden Power would have before, Grass being preferred since it's better defensively than Ice, though Ice handles Landorus-T better. Electric is literally just a meme but can work if you can remove Ground types. Ghost/Dark has a niche as anti-priority on Screens, which you really shouldn't do, and you at least get STAB on Assurance. Definitely going to be a noob trap as people still don't understand Rampardos Theorem or the value of defenses on even offensive Pokemon (side note, you should go play Advance Wars By Web. Defense is more important there due to a number of factors, but you'll get a new appreciation of defense you otherwise wouldn't. Also it's fun).

:ss/Rillaboom:
Tera Type: Grass*, Fighting^, Dark^
Monkey swing! Rillaboom is a star pivot thanks to Grassy Terrain, good bulk, U-turn, and being pretty threatening. It honestly be decent Terastallizing, but doesn't need. It is pretty hard thinking of a good typing since Rillaboom should be grounded and the appeal is stronger than Talonflame priority+even Stronger regular STAB. Other than making Grassy Glide even stronger, it can have a stronger Fighting STAB or Knock Off (but as great cost to monkey)

:ss/Slowbro:
Tera Type: Grass", Steel", Dark"
Slowbro is a nice pivot, but mostly because of its typing. The best ones are the Tera Typings that resist its weaknesses, which is actually pretty hard to do.

:ss/Slowking-galar:
Tera Type: Dark"^, Psychic*
Slowking-Galar really doesn't want to Terastallize since it really doesn't have that great of options. Dark is what I think would be the best type for it since it resists Ghost and Dark, and also gives Foul Play STAB if you want to. Psychic is also an option as Slowking is actually a pretty good offensive Pokemon with Nasty Plot.

:ss/Tapu Fini:
Tera Type: Grass"^, Steel"
Tapu Fini is also not a great Terastallizer either. It's most useful type is Grass to resist Grass and Electric, and additionally can use Steel for Grass and Poison, especially Slowking-G. Thing is Tapu Fini isn't a Pokemon that would benefit from becoming Mono or having a typing that is immune to Toxic, which it already has with Misty Terrain. It does gain STAB on Grass Knot, which it doesn't really need, but it is there.

:ss/Tapu Koko:
Tera Type: Grass"^, Electric*, Flying^", Ice^
Tapu Koko is a much better example of a Tapu using Tera Types to great effect, like most Electric types. Tapu Koko naturally enjoys a ways to beat Ground types, and Grass is the best option due to Grass Knot, and the only other Ground counter type it would use is Flying. Super STAB with Electric Terrain is also great on Tapu Koko due to it being an Electric type with actual coverage. Flying is niche for when you want to spam Brave Bird to beat Grass types with natual STAB, but does mean you lose out on your own Terrain. Additionally, you can use Ice to beat Ground/Grass/Dragon, though it means you lose a ton of defensive utility on a pivot and Tapu Koko has Brave Bird and Dazzling Gleam anyways.

:ss/Tapu Lele:
Tera Type: Psychic*, Fire"^
Tapu Lele is a pretty decent user of Tera Types. It doesn't need much, just Psychic spam which it already does well. However, there is a case for using Fire as it both is a way to beat Steel types both defensively and making it more reliable than Focus Miss.

:ss/Tornadus-Therian:
Tera Type: Steel", Ground", Flying*
Tornadus-T is a pretty good user of Tera Types. Being a Mono type Pokemon that is also fast and has Regenerator, it doesn't lose much while also gaining so much. It can use it on defensive pivot sets or offensive Nasty Plot sets as well. Steel resists Ice and Rock, while Ground resists Rock and is immune to Electric. Offensively, making Tornadus Flying doesn't do anything defensively, but since it is Mono Flying, there isn't a downside to not using Flying on NP sets.

:ss/Toxapex:
Tera Type: Grass", Dark"^
Toxapex is a decent user of Tera Types, but does fall a bit flat since you do lose its great typing. But still, Terastallizing into a Grass or Dark type can be pretty useful in some scenarios.

:ss/Tyranitar:
Tera Type: Rock*, Ghost", Fairy"
Tyranitar is probably one of the worse Terastallizers despite the benefit of becoming a type that beats Fighting. This is because of course Sand Stream. This is probably the only time a non-Tera Blast user would be "dedicated" Terastallize user solely because using it for Ghost or Fairy means you would need Unnerve, which is just bad. Additionally, despite looking bad on paper, Tyranitar's typing is actually somewhat good defensively. Mostly because it resists Ghost, Dark, Psychic, Flying, and Fire, all of which are pretty good resists considering its x1.5 SpD in Sand. If Tyranitar didn't have Sand Stream, it would be probably UU, but would have a completely different story.

:ss/Urshifu-rapid-strike:
Tera Type: Water*"
Urshifu-R is definitely the best user of Tera Types on Rain teams. Pokemon like Pelipper and Barraskewda are secondary to how threatening Urshifu-R can be with Super STAB on Surging Strikes. It's both much more powerful and bulkier. The power under Rain is definitely worth the lose of Fighting STAB. If you don't plan on using it on Rain, you might want to hold off on using it if your team otherwise would need to use it.

:ss/Victini:
Tera Type: Fire*, Electric^", Grass"^, Fighting"^
Like Mew, Victini is 100 across the board, but with a movepool that is somewhat lacking in utility. Yeah, it has great coverage and also STAB v-Create, but it is pretty linear in what it does, which is fine for Victini. Since Victini rarely uses its Psychic STAB, you can use Fire to make V-Create go Brrr. This is nice on Victini as not only is V-Create even stronger, but it also has Bolt Strike. Speaking of which, Victini can give Bolt Strike STAB to make that stronger while still have a powerful V-Create and not being Stealth Rock weak either. Grass, again, is great for Ground and Water types and lets it use its Grass coverage too. Additionally it can tap into its Fighting coverage while resisting Rock/Stealth Rock.
But I would like to take this time to show off, while powerful, Super STAB isn't broken.
Here is Sun Boosted, Choice Band, Super STAB V-Create on a Water Avalugg more Foreshadowing
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Sun: 170-201 (43.1 - 51%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
Even after giving V-Create an effective 810 BP after tons of set up, it still is less than likely to 2HKO Water Avalugg. This is a ridiculous scenario as Victini would need set up and a less than desirable item to barely 2HKO Avalugg (after becoming Water). This is why you can't really apply Super STAB toeverything and call it a day. Victini is unique among Pokemon that would do this because it has great coverage to surpass Water Avalugg, Toxapex, Heatran (if it isn't Grass), Tyranitar, Volcanion, and Water Landorus-T. Regieleki is noob bait because its coverage is awful.
I wanted to mention it here since Victini is a good example of why this is the case with an extreme case.

:ss/Volcanion:
Tera Type: Ground"^
Volcanion is unique as a Water/Fire type, but is further unique as it's the only Water and Fire type that doesn't really care to have Grass as a Tera Type, which is pretty ironic. This is because Volcanion's ability Water Absorb does the main job Grass has on Fire types and Ground is flat out immune to Electric. Not only that, but Volcanion now resists Rock and gets STAB on Earthpower.

:ss/Volcarona:
Tera Type: Psychic^, Water^", Ground^"
Volcarona is back at it again, where while still good, people are mostly shitting themselves over nothing. Volcarona's history is funny like that. Gen 7, it'll be OP because of Z-moves. Gen 8, it'll be OP because of Heavy Duty Boots. And now Gen 9, and people are scared of what is essentially glorified Hidden Power. Though, Water and Ground would benefit Volcarona defensively, you do need to use it as a dedicated Tera user to possibly beat on of its checks and at the expense of your own Fire/Bug STAB. A thing of note is that this is a match up Flying Heatran prefers over Grass Heatran, but because of its original Bug STAB. Also it can use Psychic on Toxapex.

:ss/Weavile:
Tera Type: Ice*, Dark*"
Weavile is a simple Pokemon with typings. Ice/Dark is inherently good offensively, which is why it's another Pokemon you shouldn't Terastallize since Weavile prefers both STABs. Super STAB Triple Axel is scary until you think about the that Victini calc before. Dark is similar with Knock Off, Beat Up, and unironically making Weavile a better type defensively.

:ss/Zapdos:
Tera Type: Steel", Water^"
Zapdos is another Pokemon that would prefer not to Tera Type. With Roost, it can already take neutral damage to Ice and Rock, so covering for those weaknesses is not too great. But if you have to, pick Steel since it means faster Pokemon don't get that jump on you and you're immune to Poison. Water can also be used as it resists Ice and gets STAB on Rain Boosted Weather Balls, but like with Barraskewda other Pokemon would use that better.

:ss/Zapdos-galar:
Tera Type: Fighting*, Flying*
Sadly another sticker when it comes to Terastallizing, and for the same reason as Weavile. It doesn't really have use for most coverage moves and it likes its STABs too much. If Zapdos-G got Stone Edge, it would be a different story where it could possibly become Rock and not have to use Tera Blast, but I still wouldn't recommend it.

:ss/Zeraora:
Tera Type: Grass"^, Electric*, Fighting^, Fairy^", Flying"^, Dark^, Fire^, Steel"^, Ice^
And after a long streak of bad Tera users, we come to what is Terastallizing Royalty. There are so many reasons to Terastallize Zeraora and use an assortment of Tera Types on it. It has everything a the best Terastallize users could want. Great coverage to convert to STAB, get coverage for those new STABs, great pivoting abilities, doesn't lose too much by removing its old typing, and has a built in immunity with Volt Absorb. Not only does it have a actually good defensive utility (with most typings), but imagine trying to fight this thing when it can be any type. Normally, it just runs Plasma Fist+coverage to compliment Plasma Fist. Now, Zeraora can run Fighting Close Combat and have coverage to compliment Fighting or become Grass with Grass Knot and have coverage complimenting Grass. It's nuts since Zeraora is so fast and decently strong with a wide range of coverage. If you want to, you can go with Ice as well with Tera Blast if you really wanted too, and you'd even have some defensive utility against opposing BoltBeam coverage and Tera Blast can be Special or Physical. Not to mention that Zeraora gets Calm Mind and Bulk Up to make it less predictable and more threatening.
 
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You're thinking in terms of countering individual mons. This shifts things to trying to counter types. You don't have a Garchomp counter which dies when it swaps to Ice, you run a Dragon counter, then swap to your anti-Ice mon when Garchomp turns out to be Ice this time.

Your anti ice mon is not alive because your anti ice mon is designed to check ice mons and theres no ice mons in your opponents team, so your anti ice mon is either already dead by fulfulling its purpose checking mamos/weav during the battle, or is already damaged/chipped by doing other things during battle, but none of those things were "keeping it healthy so i can withstand an hyphotetical and completely random Ice chomp that i know nothing about".

Thats the entire point of all of this that you dont seem to get. And btw, no, you dont run checks to types, you check specific threats and most of the time those resistances to types come against more general kind of team compositions (like rain, for example). The same SpD clef that you use to both check pult and prevent DM/SB spam gets rekt by garchomp, and your lando-t is only there because you need it to stop said garchomp. If said garchomp wasnt garchomp, but another thing you dont know nothing about, theres no reason for your lando t to be preserved like that. And that, again, is the entire problem.

I just think you're overly concerned when we don't have full information. Z moves were another "overwhelm counters" button and they turned out mostly fine.

I didn't say anything about Z-moves back in the day. They were fine by me. I've only said things like this with 2 prior examples: gems and dynamax. So, seeing as i've a 100% accuracy rate when it comes to detect broken mechanics before the game releases, i'll follow my guts and keep my train of thought on this. I didn't say anything with Megas, either.

PS: I'm not concerned, I love this new mechanic and I find it interesting.
 
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All this speculation got me thinking... Is there any pokemon that would like to Terastal to Posion/Ice/Bug?

Right now, the only two pure poison types tiered are Garbodor and Weezing, in PU, and there are no Pure Bugs tiered. For Ice there are Galarian-Darmanitan banned to Ubers, Vanilluxe lost at PUBL and Glastrier beeing C-Rank in PU.

Of course there will be new pokemon, but right now i can't see any making good use of these tera types.
Regarding Poison and Bug here, Venomoth might enjoy terastallizing into one of these if the super-stab bonus is good enough, thanks to Tinted Lens boosting resisted hits.
 
Two things:
1) Terastallizing would happen after hazard chip. So even if your Zapdos will become a Steel type, you’re either taking 25% chip the first time you come out (unless you send it out early, before hazards are up, see point 2), or using HDB that will become pretty obsolete after you Terastal.
2) Similarly, you can’t switch in as your Tera type if you haven’t used it already, so something like a Steel Avalugg would want to Tera very early so it can start switching into opponents as a Steel type.
 
In what way is it more in favor for them.

Magnezone is about removing steels. If removing steels enables your other teammates really well, it is well worth the use of tera to do so. Especially because big steels like Heatran are notoriously hard to remove and doing so opens up a lot of dangerous pokemon.

I-
*insert screaming into hands GIF here*

No it isn't. You give up that typing on Ferro and now it fails to check what it was put on a team to handle. Which opens up huge holes in your team defensively.

Steel types are the best defensive typing in the game. Giving that up to escape Magnezone is the same as it dying to Magnezone because it now fails to do what it was put on a team to do.

You don't get to choose what type you tera into mid battle. You choose that in the builder.

Zone doesn't have to be useful afterwards. Its role is to kill steels for its allies to go crazy. So no body press sets would not be better.

Bolding the bits I want to point out: Since you are setting which type you Tera into during teambuilding then you can also make it so that Ferro, or anything really, has the ability to check different kinds of things on more of a case-by-case basis... although it may be something that could wind up backfiring in some cases based on team matchup, especially if you aren't careful. (I.e. if ferro is designed to check two completely different things depending on if it Teras or not and the opponent has both)

Edit: honestly though as a more general thing: I think the defensive properties of Tera may be slightly exaggerated, and your post does a good job of pointing out why. Defensively it can help some sweepers out by keeping them alive but imo does seem like it is more beneficial overall offensively than defensively.
 
Bolding the bits I want to point out: Since you are setting which type you Tera into during teambuilding then you can also make it so that Ferro, or anything really, has the ability to check different kinds of things on more of a case-by-case basis... although it may be something that could wind up backfiring in some cases based on team matchup, especially if you aren't careful. (I.e. if ferro is designed to check two completely different things depending on if it Teras or not and the opponent has both)

Edit: honestly though as a more general thing: I think the defensive properties of Tera may be slightly exaggerated, and your post does a good job of pointing out why. Defensively it can help some sweepers out by keeping them alive but imo does seem like it is more beneficial overall offensively than defensively.
I have to agree with this. Defensively, I think that Pokémon that really need the type change are the ones to gain the most benefit, like Avalugg. However, adding these Pokémon is like telling your opponent that you’re gonna Tera that Pokémon.

Also, a lot of OU defensive mons already have great typings defensively like Ferrothorn and would hate giving it up.

Offensive Pokémon would want to switch their typing more often, either to bait in checks/counters or to be harder to chip down and KO. Even then, giving up STAB combos like Garchomp’s Ground + Dragon and Weavile’s Dark + Ice can be problematic.

I find this mechanic to be rather balanced, as you’re gaining and losing certain attributes when you Tera.
 
Some more potentially good Tera candidates, only talking about Pokemon officially confirmed to be in the game:

Water-type :salamence:

Salamence already has access to two very powerful Water-type moves without needing to waste them on Tera Blast: Aqua Tail or Hydro Pump. Like with the other 4x Ice-weak Pokemon, turning Water flips the switch on the usual Ice counters and they're all of a sudden on the backfoot. It's funny how using Tera to turn Salamence into a Water-type actually makes it extremely similar to base Gyarados; Water-types, exact same abilities, high Attack, etc. However, I feel Salamence would better utilize its newfound Water-typing on Rain teams as a Special-attacker, using an offensive set like this:

Salamence (Water-type) @ Life Orb / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Hurricane
- Fire Blast
- Roost / Draco Meteor

Despite lacking Ice Beam, Salamence has ways around Grass- and Dragon- types in the forms of Hurricane, Fire Blast, and Draco Meteor, respectively, playing similarly to Volcanion, who is a Water-type that lacks Ice Beam but has Fire coverage.

Normal-type :noivern:

Noivern (Normal-type) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator / Frisk
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
- Switcheroo / Dark Pulse

Does this need a broad explanation? STAB Boomburst while also removing your Stealth Rock-weakness? Yes, please! Basically becomes Super Saiyan Specs Swellow with high speed and power.

Bug-type :venomoth:

Venomoth @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Sleep Powder
- Roost

Seriously, watch out for Tinted Lens users. They're about to go crazy turning their normal STABs into Super STABs with Tera. Why need any coverage at all when Tinted Lens + Tera Boost is going to help Venomoth blow through nearly all Bug resists?
 
The Korean website has updated, dating the news to August 19th.

https://pokemonkorea.co.kr/sv/menu189?number=2642&mode=view

Overall some of these showcase screenshots are in much lower resolution after being edited together, and are also timestamped in general.
https://data1.pokemonkorea.co.kr/newdata/2022/08/2022-08-19_14-26-36-89280-1660886796.png
1661310781000.png

Cyclizar takes 39 damage (116/145) from Hariyama's Fake Out, so the Japanese/Korean set is probably similar here.

1661310810214.png

Blissey also lives with 5 hits like the Japanese screenshot.

However, the ranked battle page and other individual screenshots like on pokemon pages are actually higher resolution than the Japanese and English ones at 1920x1080 and in png format, so you can see some more fine details.
1661310994925.png

This shot is actually more clear than the serebii counterpart of the same resolution if you switch tabs to compare the two, and the trainer headshots are in very slightly different positions.
Other observations:
The Wooper in mud image has a lower resolution than the Wooper on grass image for Korean and English, but in Japanese they have the same resolution.
Korean Wooper in grass is lighter than serebii's Wooper in grass.
I looked at a few other pokemon screenshots and they look the same as what serebii has so I stopped from there.

Also I remembered that the Japanese site also has Chinese language options, so here's another source of screenshots to compare to. Blissey survives after 5 hits in all of these.

Traditional Chinese: https://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/sv/tc/battle/220822_03/
1661361147347.png

Cyclizar takes 41 damage from Fake Out (104/145).

Simplified Chinese: https://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/sv/sc/battle/220822_03/
1661361204302.png

Cyclizar takes 38 damage from Fake Out (107/145). Also the traditional chinese screenshot looks like it has more contrast in general especially with the background trees, and the text and HP bar font looks slightly different between the languages, though I'm not sure if that's the same as how it appears currently.
 
Bug-type :venomoth:

Venomoth @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Sleep Powder
- Roost

Seriously, watch out for Tinted Lens users. They're about to go crazy turning their normal STABs into Super STABs with Tera. Why need any coverage at all when Tinted Lens + Tera Boost is going to help Venomoth blow through nearly all Bug resists?
1661361619137.png
 
Water-type :salamence:

Salamence already has access to two very powerful Water-type moves without needing to waste them on Tera Blast: Aqua Tail or Hydro Pump. Like with the other 4x Ice-weak Pokemon, turning Water flips the switch on the usual Ice counters and they're all of a sudden on the backfoot. It's funny how using Tera to turn Salamence into a Water-type actually makes it extremely similar to base Gyarados; Water-types, exact same abilities, high Attack, etc. However, I feel Salamence would better utilize its newfound Water-typing on Rain teams as a Special-attacker, using an offensive set like this:

Salamence (Water-type) @ Life Orb / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Hurricane
- Fire Blast
- Roost / Draco Meteor

Despite lacking Ice Beam, Salamence has ways around Grass- and Dragon- types in the forms of Hurricane, Fire Blast, and Draco Meteor, respectively, playing similarly to Volcanion, who is a Water-type that lacks Ice Beam but has Fire coverage.
I was thinking the same type, but more like a set like this Aqua Tail, Dragon Dance, Earthquake, and some other coverage to deal with Grass types or Flying types. It would set itself apart from Dragonite with Moxie and Dragonite is not left wanting for more bulk too.
 
The information from world's was interesting but we'll probably close the thread again later today as we've exhausted most of the major topics.

How exactly does locking this thread benefit Smogon forums or the people who post here? Just let people talk about the new Pokémon game. There might not be a lot of news but there's TONS of credible leaks and even ignoring that we could easily talk about the officially revealed info until the damn games get released.

Seriously though who benefits from clamping down on discussion?
 
I was thinking the same type, but more like a set like this Aqua Tail, Dragon Dance, Earthquake, and some other coverage to deal with Grass types or Flying types. It would set itself apart from Dragonite with Moxie and Dragonite is not left wanting for more bulk too.
I'd go with Dual Wingbeat for Grass so you have STAB if you don't Tera. Dragon Dance Salamence would be interesting because you practically get to chose if you want DD Salamence or DD Gyarados. Maybe it could be paired with Gyarados if you really want to be able to use your Tera for a second Gyarados.

If you want to be able to have a second Salamence instead, you can teach Gyarados Scale Shot and give it the Dragon Tera Type. Is it a good idea? Probably not. Does it give you a choice between having two Salamence, two Gyarados, or one of each? Close enough.
 
How exactly does locking this thread benefit Smogon forums or the people who post here? Just let people talk about the new Pokémon game. There might not be a lot of news but there's TONS of credible leaks and even ignoring that we could easily talk about the officially revealed info until the damn games get released.

Seriously though who benefits from clamping down on discussion?

Leaks are not allowed for the most part. Most of the convo with the current released info will just devolve into theorymonning about a metagame that doesn't exist (we don't even know if half of the mons being mentioned here will be in the base game or even in this game after possible DLC), even though we got more info about tera, some parts are still nebulous.

Discussion is cool and all, but when every post is prefaced (or assumes that you're viewing it like it) with "if x is y, then z", and x and y are dubious, it feels a bit pointless.
 
I'd go with Dual Wingbeat for Grass so you have STAB if you don't Tera. Dragon Dance Salamence would be interesting because you practically get to chose if you want DD Salamence or DD Gyarados. Maybe it could be paired with Gyarados if you really want to be able to use your Tera for a second Gyarados.

If you want to be able to have a second Salamence instead, you can teach Gyarados Scale Shot and give it the Dragon Tera Type. Is it a good idea? Probably not. Does it give you a choice between having two Salamence, two Gyarados, or one of each? Close enough.
I was going to add a physical DD set, but I'm unsure if IoA moves like Dual Wingbeat are going to appear in SV, so I held off.
 
I'd go with Dual Wingbeat for Grass so you have STAB if you don't Tera. Dragon Dance Salamence would be interesting because you practically get to chose if you want DD Salamence or DD Gyarados. Maybe it could be paired with Gyarados if you really want to be able to use your Tera for a second Gyarados.

If you want to be able to have a second Salamence instead, you can teach Gyarados Scale Shot and give it the Dragon Tera Type. Is it a good idea? Probably not. Does it give you a choice between having two Salamence, two Gyarados, or one of each? Close enough.
For Gyarados, Grass or Ground sound better.
The point of making Salamence Water would be to send it out on something it resists, then when your opponent switches to something with Ice coverage, you become Water to get an extra turn to Dragon Dance again or attack.
 
How exactly does locking this thread benefit Smogon forums or the people who post here? Just let people talk about the new Pokémon game. There might not be a lot of news but there's TONS of credible leaks and even ignoring that we could easily talk about the officially revealed info until the damn games get released.

Seriously though who benefits from clamping down on discussion?

Like we have said previously, you can join the OI or Smogon main discord of you want to talk about leaks. We don't mind them there.

We don't want to entertain them on the forums because of the whole wishlisting aspect and you know, it not being confirmed?? We've done this every time with these threads. After my post, discussion has improved massively - and speculation based on known official information is fine (as long as its not ridiculously outlandish).

We love posts about competitive implications or discussions and dissections of the map. In fact, I highly encourage posts of that sort of effort. Just make sure the reasoning is based on known information, it's not that hard. Eventually though, the discussion starts to swirl into a circle and nothing new really gets discussed, we were heading that way already. We close the thread down at that juncture because there's no point in leaving it open chasing its own tail.
 
For Gyarados, Grass or Ground sound better.
The point of making Salamence Water would be to send it out on something it resists, then when your opponent switches to something with Ice coverage, you become Water to get an extra turn to Dragon Dance again or attack.
Imo Ground sounds better than Grass since it learns EQ and can just run that instead of Tera Blast.
 
I think another thing worth noting is that for all intents and purposes, Dynamaxing turned the receiving Pokemon into a Superboss for your team, complete with a bunch of mechanics that are completely asymmetrical with a normal Pokemon. With Megas and all revealed info on Terastalizing, the Pokemon change into the new form but are still subject to all the exact same mechanics as a standard one. Granted some of these matter more in Singles than Doubles and vice versa, but nonetheless Dynamax is a different beast entirely just on a base functionality.

A brief skim of the Bulbapedia article includes the following for things Dynamax ignores or exploits

  • Weight based moves fail (Low Kick and Grass Knot being decentish Coverage side coverage)
  • Proper HP-affecting not using the inflated stat ("When calculating changes in HP (damage or restoration) based on the percentage of a Pokémon's maximum HP, the Dynamax Pokémon's non-Dynamax HP is used.")
  • Phazing or majority of forced switches fail (considering Boosting easy is one advantage of D-max this is definitely notable)
  • Restrictions from several items (admittedly not clear how Pre-Dynamax Choiced -> Dmax -> Back to normal would go) turn off while maxed.
  • ALL the secondary effects added to the moves (several Pokemon gain significantly more from attacking-while-boosting than others do, or simply not giving up attack turns to start snowball effects like Speed Boosts or Terrain setting)
  • Still does minor damage through Protect (mostly matters because of the above mentioned effects)
  • ALWAYS inflicts its Secondary effects to the entire relevant side (Protect fails to stop the move from executing and stat lowering effects still go through substitute even if it blocks the damage, before affecting the entirety of either side)
  • The Buffing effects are not limited to the user (so you're not dealing with one mon getting faster or Bulkier or stronger, you're dealing with both doing so)
  • Dynamax costs literally nothing besides your once-a-battle usage (vs Mega Stones and some Megas being built completely different from using their normal form), and no Pokemon has to make any major decisions within its use of Dynamax to do it (i.e. Tera types being set before the battle starts rather than selectable on the fly, also Tera Blast and potential move/ability/item choices that might suit one or another better).
Dynamax may be the most poorly balanced of the gimmicks we have ever gotten, in that regardless of how strong individual users turned out, the mechanic itself throws so many advantages behind it that are specifically there to remove its weakness, rather than simply trade or counterbalance them (Mega Slowbro for example gives up his passive recovery for much better bulk, so benefits more from one or the other depending on how many big hits vs several mid ones you need him to tank).

With Megas, you could build teams that don't strictly need a Mega to function decently in a tier (might be more common in lower tiers with the more limited pool, but not like they lacked for Megas strong in their tier despite this), and Z-moves could often be meant to nuke specific targets who they wouldn't be needed for. Terastalize will usually serve a particular purpose (escaping trapping, picking a better type to sweep with, etc.), and if that purpose isn't applicable to a given battle (or was still prepped for), then the team did relinquish something in doing it.
Exactly my line of thoughts.
 
Like we have said previously, you can join the OI or Smogon main discord of you want to talk about leaks. We don't mind them there.
Discord sucks. It's not searchable, not accessible to the wider internet, and encourages less productive and less considered discussion. Why not make a thread for leak discussion specifically, here, on the site people are on and that the community is named after, rather than in a chatroom?
 
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