SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

AztecCroc said:
So given that these straight up two standard word things seem to be the Paradox mons' actual names, why? The Doxphans have normal names in Japanese, Great Tusk is イダイナキバ (Idainakiba) and Iron Treads is テツノワダチ (Tetsunowadachi), not multiple regular words.
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According to this poster, those katakana strings for names are multiple regular words, and yes, they mean "Great Tusk" and "Iron Treads":
LonelyGaruga said:
The other titles leaked for the Titans don't correspond to areas very well. "False Dragon" and "Earthshaker" don't exactly sound like locations. That said, Klawf's JP alias, 岩壁のヌシ, really does translate most accurately to "Lord of the Rocky Cliffs" (Lord is localized as Titan), so in Klawf's case at least, sure, absolutely.

--

So, the names of the "Paradox" Pokemon. "Great Tusk" and "Iron Treads" do seem to be the actual names of the alternative Donphan. The format of the English website is kinda sucky, so I'll link everyone the JP website for reference of what I'm about to talk about.

https://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/sv/ja/story/221108_02/
^page on Paradox Donphan

Prefacing the description of each Donphan is their descriptive name, written in katakana.

イダイナキバ: "Idainakiba" (Great Tusk)
テツノワダチ: "Tetsu no Wadachi" (Tread of Iron)

Then each one has the description introducing them like on the English page.

「偉大な牙」と呼ばれる怪物: A monster referred to as the "Great Tusk"
「鉄の轍」と呼ばれる怪物: A monster referred to as the "Tread of Iron"

イダイナキバ and テツノワダチ are written in katakana, whereas 偉大な牙 and 鉄の轍 are written in kanji and hiragana. The distinction to be made here is that katakana is used for Pokemon names, and all by itself makes it appear like that is indeed the actual name. If the goal was simply to show how to read the names for players unfamiliar with the kanji, hiragana would be used. They could still very well be nicknames, but it seems rather redundant to have both katakana and kanji names for the Pokemon listed the way that they are. Add on what's been leaked about the naming convention of the Future Pokemon all starting with "Iron", and I think it's very safe to assume that these descriptors are their names. Not too different from if Ultra Beasts had no proper name beyond their aliases.

We can certainly dismiss the possibility of these kanji descriptions being used for their Titan battles, as the Donphan are allegedly the ones appended by "Earthshaker". Thus, the JP format of the name would be something like 土震のヌシ イダイナキバ (localized, something like "Great Tusk, the Earthshaking Titan"). It wouldn't be "(True Name Here), the Great Tusk Titan".
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I can back up "Tetsu" meaning "Iron" and 大 being pronounced "dai" = ダイ.

Combine this with Khu/Kaka's claims that all the Future mons' Chinese names start with the Chinese word for iron, 鐵 (Traditional) or 铁 (Simplified)...

(...Personally, the better pictures backing up the "datamine" sprites yet the "datamine" still having Iron Treads's Ground/Steel typing clash with Khu/Kaka's claims that no Future mon is any part Steel leaves me conflicted about what to believe.)
 
Perriechu said:
a quick question on this topic, what was everyone expecting the future/violet Paradox Pokémon to look like? Given what we knew, they were obviously going to look robotic to some extent, I get that they could've looked a bit better but Gallade, Delibird and Volcarona all look really cool.
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Futuristic design have more stuff going about them than toy dog aesthethic , look at Horizon Zero dawn animals for an example, the problem with pokemon is that they have this limit where they cant get too much complicated with the designs so they are going with efficiency rather than creativity.

Dragapult is a perfect example of what you can do to make something animal yet doing stuff advanced like rocket launchers, i would have like that approach for some future paradoxes
 
RocketSurgery said:
Ignoring all the post since still trying to avoid most new mons, just popping in to say I think the paradoxes have swung me over to Scarlet.

Thoughts based on tiny icons:

-Para t-tar is amazing
-past volc >> future volc in design (but reverse for typing)
-para salamence goes so hard.
-Para misdreavus is sadly less of a change than I was hoping for, but I still like it.
-Para hariyama and hydreigon look pretty minimal too.
-Para gallevoir looks ok.
-para jiggly ok
-para delibird looks fun.

I guess the ones without much difference are the commoners".

And here I was expecting the robo design style of future mons to make me go violet.

I will be so annoyed if we can't catch these by visiting the opposite version in multiplayer. They'd better fix 7 star para raids if they're gonna throw that restriction at us.

Hope stats follow soon...
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Updated thoughts since we have dex images now:

FhG7GQSXkAAuBN0.jpeg

FhG7GgqaEAUvWxN.jpeg

-Past donphan looks good. I don't like the eyes too much, but the rest is cool. I don't mind these teeth on Pokemon, it's just on the human characters that I hate them. Ground/fighting is cool as a unique type.
-Past volc is a top tier design. I wish it were something better than bug/fighting, but I think it looks slicker than future volc.
-Para Amoongus is ok. Basically just an ammongus that let its hair grow out and has teeth. Apparently grass/dark.
-Para jiggly is fun. You can't see its tail on the dex image, but I like that the scarlet paras were given to some NFE mons. Fairy/psychic is a bit boring.
-Para misdreavus' minimal changes are a bit of a let down, and I'm glad we got the sprite first, which at least shows more changes. Type is awesome, and if the datamined stats are real it's pretty good on the special side. Still looking forward to this one, just wish it had more of a glow up.
-Para magneton is... weird. It's funny that it is apparently the elec/ground and not future donphan, so for that I can appreciate its weird magnet legs. Its sprite looks bad tho.
-Para salamence is amazing. Apparently the noble of the group with 590 bst. Typing puts it at a major disadvantage to Para Gallevoir, but I was not expecting to like a salamence-based mon thus much, since mence is probably my least favorite pseudo, down there with Kommo-o.

-I actually liked future Donphan's derpy lcd face. Wish we got a better view of it here. Apparently it's ground/steel, despite Khu saying no steel future mons. Maybe they changed it at some point and Khu didn't catch it.
-I like future volc, though less than past volc's design. I think I set my expectations/hopes for this one a bit too high. I prefer this typing, though (and the alleged speed). All the volc "forms" kept a 4x weakness I guess. The pokedex image makes it clearer how the main body changes compared to the sprite.
-I am not sure what to make of para gallevoir from this image. It looks like some detail is missing off the side. The eyes remind me of mecha sonic, and I wish the head drew more from Gallade than Gardevoir (but then it might look too similar to the fire mega-man-mons). I otherwise don't care much for the design compared to para mence, but again it could just be a bad image. The typing is much anticipated and is the best thing going for this for me so far.
-I like para hariyama a lot more than regular hariyama, especially the head. I really don't like hariyama's ears, and the head bumps here are an improvement. The type is cool and it's funny that we get two elec/fighting lines. Sloooow tho.
-Para delibird is not bad. Apparently pretty fast, I would like it if this turned out to have some actual competitive use. Typing is nothing special, but water is a nice type to pair with ice.
-Para hydreigon just looks like a toy-ified version of hydreigon, and otherwise doesn't change the design too much (e.g., conpared to para delibird, which also looks toyified but I feel works with its design better). Not a fan of this one, I guess GF balanced the fact that violet got two psedo-based paras by making one of them super lame. Typing is nice enough, but dark/flying is getting crowded.
-I love para ttar. It might just be this angle, but I dig the blastoise-y proportions. The sprite makes it look potentially slimmer. This will be one of my regrets picking scarlet if I can't get this easily. If it had been ghost type but same design it easily could have swung me back over to violet. Type is ok, but it should at least synergize well with electric terrain, which allegedly boosts the future paras.

Over all, scarlet edges out violet here for me because of salamence, past volc, and ghost/fairy para misdreavus, but it's really close.

In terms of the supposed datamined stats (which I'm not sure are confirmed yet), can't complain too much except the past donphan and volc are both slower than future donphan and volc. It fits thematically maybe but does feel a bit imbalanced in terms of stat spread.

Not a fan of the names, though. They really should just be codenames for the story and then giving real names later, but apparently nope, "Great tusk" is the actual name. I probably wouldn't mind as much if para misdreavus wasn't supposedly "flutter mane" :/
 
arkstok said:
Futuristic design have more stuff going about them than toy dog aesthethic , look at Horizon Zero dawn animals for an example, the problem with pokemon is that they have this limit where they cant get too much complicated with the designs so they are going with efficiency rather than creativity.

Dragapult is a perfect example of what you can do to make something animal yet doing stuff advanced like rocket launchers, i would have like that approach for some future paradoxes
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To an extent, I think that mons like Dragapult or Blastoise are why the future forms lean more towards strictly robotic: we're already conditioned such that the presence of advanced components is not enough to clearly identify a mon as 'futuristic.'
 
It does feel like a waste that all the Violet designs are robots. They look more robotic than Miraidon,even, and that thing literally has LED eyes and rocket thrusters. Like SOME of htem being robots okay, cool, but i was expecting something...different, in general. I guess we know what to expect with Virizion when it's ready, at least.

The Scarlet designs feel like they had more room to work with their "more monstrous" aesthetic. Though even then you have things like Misdreavus & Amoonguss & Jigglypuff where its like.....you tried, I guess. Though at least some of the stuff like the mouths add some flavor.

Really in aggregate my original thoughts of "these could have just been forms" remains.
 
R_N said:
It does feel like a waste that all the Violet designs are robots. They look more robotic than Miraidon,even, and that thing literally has LED eyes and rocket thrusters. Like SOME of htem being robots okay, cool, but i was expecting something...different, in general. I guess we know what to expect with Virizion when it's ready, at least.

The Scarlet designs feel like they had more room to work with their "more monstrous" aesthetic. Though even then you have things like Misdreavus & Amoonguss & Jigglypuff where its like.....you tried, I guess. Though at least some of the stuff like the mouths add some flavor.
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I think there's some intentionality in this.

Koraidon and Miraidon are probably meant to be some "stabilized paradox" or something on these lines, while the Paradox pokemon are apparently just feral and incontrolled.

The fact that in the intro we see the box legendary basically crash into the beach makes me think that the plotline will have some eternatus-tier disaster in the breeding, the paradox pokemon are caused by it, and the box legendary is meant to help us prevent it.
 
TheTraininator said:
Wait a sec, I just noticed something guys

Big brain time

So know how people were saying that Roaring Moon looks a bit more like Mega Salamence than regular Salamence?

View attachment 463635View attachment 463636
I don’t think that’s a coincidence. I was looking at its counterpart, Iron Valiant, and I noticed that I don’t think it’s actually Gallade + Gardevoir as people were claiming. I think it’s based specifically on Mega Gallade!

View attachment 463637View attachment 463638
SO GAME FREAK REMEMBERED THAT MEGAS EXISTED

…Oh, and I’m curious what it means for the lore too of course lol

EDIT: Actually, I think Iron Valiant does have Gardevoir in it after all.

…Mega Gardevoir! Look at the sleeves:

View attachment 463639
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The in-book sketches of the Paradox mons in officially revealed material, along with the English descriptions of the Para-Donphans (they start with "The book describes" and "It is said that") has me personally convinced that both books those sketches are from (the "Scarlet Book" and "Violet Book") are works of fiction in-universe.

So creative Paldeans heard tales of Mega Mence and Mega Gallade and figured they were good enough to draw and describe prehistoric/futuristic expys of them (then promptly dismissed tales of Mega Tyranitar as "not inspiring enough" and went for Unovan movie footage instead).

Then your protagonist falls down a hole and hallucinates the book contents into reality (possibly with the help of at least one other mon).
 
So Paradoxes aside how are people taking the starter stats and abilities?

Meowscarada is obviouslythe more broken looking.
Skeledirge being a bulky Unaware mon seems good. Of course movepool will decide that.
Quaquaval seems strong, but I hear "Worse Gyarados", but we'll see if their signature moves change this or not.
 
Lectrys said:
I can back up "Tetsu" meaning "Iron" and 大 being pronounced "dai" = ダイ.

Combine this with Khu/Kaka's claims that all the Future mons' Chinese names start with the Chinese word for iron, 鐵 (Traditional) or 铁 (Simplified)...
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Yes, but there aren't literal spaces in those names, plenty of Pokemon have Japanese names that are essentially multiple words stuck together. The Doxphans could have easily been Greatusk and Irotreads and gotten the same point across.
 
Crimson Chris said:
So how are people taking the starter stats and abilities?

Meowscarada is obviouslythe more broken looking.
Skeledirge being a bulky Unaware mon seems good. Of course movepool will decide that.
Quaquaval seems strong, but I hear "Worse Gyarados", but we'll see if their signature moves change this or not.
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So far the sentiment i've seen in the thread is:

Meowscarada's brokenness depends mostly on if its moveset backs its ability. Protean is op, but if the moveset is garbage it won't help it get away with it. Plus Dark/Grass is a awful typing to try to swap in due to 4x U-turn weakness risking being murdered on the switch.

Skeledirge may be a strong wall but that also depends a lot on the moveset, and expecially if it has access to recovery or not. Doesn't matter how good it is as a wall if the only recovery it has is leftovers (moreso with a vulnerability to BOTH entry hazards and knock off)

Quaquaval may likely just be fucked by the speed tier, may not be OU viable but potentially strong midtier pokemon
 
The fact that the revelation of fake data (potential base stat stuff) is out there, I want to reserve my judgment for the starters. I want to doubly make sure of the BSTs before anything happens. Too many inconsistencies now for me to reliably take the finest of data with a grain of salt.

We will also have to see if some of the rumors of balancing of Abilities are true. Protean, according to leakers, might be one of them, based on Pearl's replies. But again, grain of salt.
 
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Worldie said:
So far the sentiment i've seen in the thread is:

Meowscarada's brokenness depends mostly on if its moveset backs its ability. Protean is op, but if the moveset is garbage it won't help it get away with it. Plus Dark/Grass is a awful typing to try to swap in due to 4x U-turn weakness risking being murdered on the switch.

Skeledirge may be a strong wall but that also depends a lot on the moveset, and expecially if it has access to recovery or not. Doesn't matter how good it is as a wall if the only recovery it has is leftovers (moreso with a vulnerability to BOTH entry hazards and knock off)

Quaquaval may likely just be fucked by the speed tier, may not be OU viable but potentially strong midtier pokemon
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Hmmm, I see. Hopefully he at least gets Recover. Also, how about the Legends? 135 Offense and 135 Speed with good bulk seems quite strong.
 
Crimson Chris said:
Hmmm, I see. Hopefully he at least gets Recover. Also, how about the Legends? 135 Offense and 135 Speed with good bulk seems quite strong.
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Problem with the legends (and with the paradoxes to some degree) is that we don't know what their abilities do.

We have "leaks" but no actual footage from the game confirming it.

Without knowing what the actual abilities do (and their movesets, to some degree), it's hard to predict where they'll land

MaskedFeraligatr said:
I’m not exactly sure why people are questioning the authenticity of the stats. Do you think they just made a bunch of BDSP style sprites exactly like the leaked models in a few hours?
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Don't underestimate how far "fake leaks" can be.

In gen 7 and 8 people went all the way to make fake models and animate them just for some fame.
 
Ironmage said:
To an extent, I think that mons like Dragapult or Blastoise are why the future forms lean more towards strictly robotic: we're already conditioned such that the presence of advanced components is not enough to clearly identify a mon as 'futuristic.'
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That would be true if we were talking about new Pokemon, and for some the design work, like the moth and mecha tyranitar, but wouldnt have been better if hydreigon was still more animal with rocket launcher for hands rather than hydreigon but square
 
AquaticPanic said:
While I understand the concern about a flood of high BST mons, I also really don't think all of them would be OU viable. Love Ungaboonguss but it aint OU material. Same could be said for The Iron Thorns and The Screaming Tail, and while we know literally nothing of the dark quartet, I doubt that a dark grass mon, who is probably slow and defensive (its a snail), is gonna be anywhere near OU either

Do think its incredibly hilarious that the ones that look the most viable are Misdreavus and Delibird tho lol
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I don't think all of them will be OU viable, in fact, only a minority, that's what always end up happening.

Things like Misdreavus seem the most obvious to me. A 135 135 freed from items, probably with nasty plot, already outspeeding most of the actual OU tier and with incredible special bulk in top of that so it can find plenty of opportunities to set up. Also Ghost Fairy offensively is a demonic combination. Like, this thing could work in the actual OU meta just with Specs and nothing more. It isn't dependant of any kind of support.
 
Crimson Chris said:
So Paradoxes aside how are people taking the starter stats and abilities?

Meowscarada is obviouslythe more broken looking.
Skeledirge being a bulky Unaware mon seems good. Of course movepool will decide that.
Quaquaval seems strong, but I hear "Worse Gyarados", but we'll see if their signature moves change this or not.
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I hate the hidden abilities. Ever singe Gen 5, every starter line clearly plays favorites and even retroactively played favorites for older Gens. And yet again they clearly are playing favorite by making Meowscarada a fast physical attacker with Protean, despite being a magician because they just have to have. It was expected to get an op ability, but couldn’t they have given it Magic Guard or Magic Bounce? Like you know a magician being magical.
Skeledirge looks like it could be decent if it gets proper recovery, but it’s kind of clear they wanted to kill its viability. It’s dumb that it gets Unaware when it doesn’t look like it would ever get Unaware in a million years, but hey at least Weedcat is guaranteed to be good.
I feel similarly about Quaquaval having such an underwhelming ability that doesn’t really fit it, but is the most fitting ability here at least.

We’ll never have a starter group like Sinnoh starters and Hoenn starters pre-HAs where the starters are relatively balanced (and yeah, Torterra used to be actually good in Gen 4).
 
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