Being real many mons tera without even having it, and although it's pretty good it's not as broken as the mechanic itself
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
RIP flutter, extremely deserved
anyway, what are people thinking in terms of mons that are good replacements? in terms of "fast offensive powerhouse", I think Palafin, Dragapult, Iron Bundle, Iron Valiant, and maybe even now gengar are going to be better options, but in general I feel like this opens up teambuilding a ton. I kinda wish Palafin had been banned, as to me it feels similarly oppressive - have a bulky water or die - but I'd also like to see how it pans out now that HO is worse.
anyway, what are people thinking in terms of mons that are good replacements? in terms of "fast offensive powerhouse", I think Palafin, Dragapult, Iron Bundle, Iron Valiant, and maybe even now gengar are going to be better options, but in general I feel like this opens up teambuilding a ton. I kinda wish Palafin had been banned, as to me it feels similarly oppressive - have a bulky water or die - but I'd also like to see how it pans out now that HO is worse.
Kingambit @ Life Orb
Ability: Supreme Overlord
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Kowtow Cleave
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
I need an opinion on this set. I feel like this could beat Houndstone and Flutter Mane and could be a good late game cleaner but I've only been playing Gen 9 OU for 10 mins so I don't know
Ability: Supreme Overlord
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Kowtow Cleave
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
I need an opinion on this set. I feel like this could beat Houndstone and Flutter Mane and could be a good late game cleaner but I've only been playing Gen 9 OU for 10 mins so I don't know
Houndstone's ban is a mistake. No reason to not ban Last Respects when we know for a fact that Basculegion will come eventually. 99% certainty that Basculegion will be better than Houndstone, one can just look at its stats/abilities/movepool to know. There is no "potentially being strong", it WILL be strong and it's clear as day as to why it will be and why it's a better Last Respects user than Houndstone.
Also, Houndstone has a niche outside of Last Respects being a defensively bulky ghost type with Fluffy that can beat dark types with Body Press. It is still usable outside of Last Respects.
Last Respects should've been banned, not Houndstone.
Also, Houndstone has a niche outside of Last Respects being a defensively bulky ghost type with Fluffy that can beat dark types with Body Press. It is still usable outside of Last Respects.
Last Respects should've been banned, not Houndstone.
Houndstone and Flutter Mane are banned. This hasn't been implemented on ladder yet though.
Both of them were just banned. However, the set is good, although Kingambit as a 'mon seems somewhat underwhelming in this meta.
It is ridiculous to not ban the move. Do what needs to be done rather than adhering to arbitrary bullshit
I agree and I'm pushing for nerfs to Tera typing like designating it to a single Pokemon that is shown to the opponent rather than pitching it entirely. DMax was hell but this can be controlled and if not then ban the move and if that's still too much then ban the mechanic entirely
Oh didn't see the post, my bad
i agree that tera is fun and has depth to it, but it should really be kept to its own meta separate from ou. it could be a separate ladder or a full-on om, but it's a bad idea to keep banning and restricting things just in the name of tera being potentially good for the meta at some point. drizzle and baton pass are basically perfect examples of tons of tiering issues and headaches coming from not dealing with the real issue.
Glimmora @ Black Sludge
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spiky Shield
- Power Gem
- Sludge Bomb
- Earth Power
On another note, I've been having a lot of good momentum with this Glimmora set lately. People are so ready to just click "Taunt" on Glimmora right now, and since I run Stealth Rock on Great Tusk, I'm free to run three really synergistic moves together on this set and chip something like Cyclizar hard. Spiky Shield I use to chip Palafin pre-Zero Hero switch
This is why I think banning Tera Blast is the best way to keep Tera in check for the first wave of bans; this ban doesn't affect mechanics at all and stays true to cartridge play.
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spiky Shield
- Power Gem
- Sludge Bomb
- Earth Power
On another note, I've been having a lot of good momentum with this Glimmora set lately. People are so ready to just click "Taunt" on Glimmora right now, and since I run Stealth Rock on Great Tusk, I'm free to run three really synergistic moves together on this set and chip something like Cyclizar hard. Spiky Shield I use to chip Palafin pre-Zero Hero switch
This is why I think banning Tera Blast is the best way to keep Tera in check for the first wave of bans; this ban doesn't affect mechanics at all and stays true to cartridge play.
The houndstone ban is just awful and reactive. There is zero reason it shouldn't just be a sand rush ban. The tier is chock full of sucker punchers that just annihilate it unless you're willing to completely commit to just winning on houndstone with clicking the funny button. And with just scarf, it would still be getting beat by a lot of shit in the tier that outspeeds and hits supereffectively. It seems so obvious that it just shouldn't be allowed to use sand rush, then it becomes a scarf wallbreaker contingent on its teammates being dead. "you have to build normal to beat it" okay well... you can make any pokemon normal type, and we have some great normal options. I mean oh my god this thing literally gives cyclizar a free turn. At what point does something "constraining teambuilding" just become "i have to build around the strong threats in the tier". at the very least it should not have been a quickban. I am a little less mad about flutter but there are some insane threats in the tier that really suffered under flutter that i think will be incredibly oppressive now. looking at tusk and roaring moon. this will all just cascade in paradox after paradox being banned now lol. thanks ou council
What runs Tera Blast consistently, though?
It's not about running consistently, it's about the surprise STAB factor that can be applied to literally any Pokemon. It's one thing to have a surprise new Defensive typing, it's another thing entirely to have access to a third STAB move that can be physical or special at any time.
Banning Shed Tail seems like the right choice. I just do not understand why you would want to ban Cyclizar itself? Could someone please explain why banning the mon is better than banning the move? Isn't Cyclizar underwhelming outside of shed tail? Let it at LEAST have some use in lower tiers...
It's not arbitrary bullshit. It's consistent with how Smogon has literally always done tiering.
Even if the HOME leaks are confirmed true, the meta is taken as it is, not as we think it probably will be. It's explained in the ban post.
Also this is just a complex ban. Which smogon also doesnt do. what are yall sayin
tera blast isnt even close to being the main issue with tera, it's that you can force 50/50s against revenge killers with type switching into immunities/resists and 2x stab on potentially any move in the game is crazy. i dont think it should be banned, but i think it will be banned. but banning tera blast is weird.
a sand rush ban? what did lycanroc ever do to u, smh
Bullshit. Talk to Freeze clause on that and tell me there's a code to follow. It's arbitrary and there's no need to let the mechanic suffer for this supposed ideology that isn't followed when it's suited.
As for what I said, you did not read it right. One Mon selected in team builder that is announced to the opponent when the game loads. That is not unreasonable and is easy to implement. This is the patient and thoughtful method rather than larping about authenticity and a code. This is the same bullshit that got Houndstone banned when it is clearly the move
While I appreciate the council's proactive tiering action, I do think that banning Houndstone as a whole rather than just Last Respects is a very strange decision that I don't understand. It seems very obvious that only one of its traits is in any way overbearing, and while the lower tiers have yet to be established and this is a "same difference" decision, it's strange to ban an entire pokemon to Ubers when it could have possibly found a niche with its two excellent abilities and defensive capabilities through its access to moves like Will-O-Wisp and Body Press. And given the precedent of SwSh adding Home compatibility and 2 waves of DLC, it's very possible that other mons will gain access to Last Respects in the coming months and weeks.
That said, however, I'm very glad that we're seeing tiering action so early into SV's lifespan, and I'm hopeful that the game will become more than a combination HO slugfest and new guy testing ground in the coming weeks.
That said, however, I'm very glad that we're seeing tiering action so early into SV's lifespan, and I'm hopeful that the game will become more than a combination HO slugfest and new guy testing ground in the coming weeks.
there is no such thing as consistency in tiering decisions/bans ever since the first complex ban (yes, smogon has complex bans!) and to insist otherwise is revisionism/fallacious argument pointing toward some imagined objective parameters for decisionmaking. there is nothing really stopping us from just doing what should be done. smogon has literally done a complex ban ON sand rush before dude. literally the exact same situation. come on now.
Freeze Clause existed on cartridge. We can't change tiering policy willy-nilly just for the sake of something that a minority of the playerbase supports, and certainly not this early in the gen.
Guys, complex bans have been a thing since Gen 4/5. The earliest example I can remember is during the weather wars in Gen 5's OU meta, but I think there's Gen 4 stuff too. Can we not argue about this in the Gen 9 OU thread? Instead, let's talk about Alomomola and how I feel it's one of the best Defensive Pokemon in OU right now
Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Icy Wind
- Chilling Water
Currently still workshopping this set, but so far, Wish Passing has been vital to keeping some of my more frail Pokemon alive. Icy Wind / Chilling Water have also been really good for softening things up so my other mons can switch in.
Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Icy Wind
- Chilling Water
Currently still workshopping this set, but so far, Wish Passing has been vital to keeping some of my more frail Pokemon alive. Icy Wind / Chilling Water have also been really good for softening things up so my other mons can switch in.
houndstone in on 2-3 allies dead is actually still insanely strong. and without speed boosting glimmer mane it doesn't really need scarf for any major threats in sand i don't think, if it's running +speed. the problem is clearly sand rush
edit: also the tier is full of insanely strong sucker punches!
- Status