Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[Finchinator]

Only direct damage contributes to rage fist counter.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/scarlet-violet-battle-mechanics-research.3709545/page-13 (post#312)

Then it's implemented very incorrectly on showdown

I am inquiring internally on this matter

After discussing, it turns out that our amazing development and coding team already was made aware of this prior and is implementing a fix in the immediate future.

Direct, turn-of damaging attacks impact Rage Fist. Any other move does not. Think of it like moves that would trigger Counter or Mirror Coat (in the wise words of Lily). This means things like Poison damage no longer impact it.

I also want to thank Marty for his timely and helpful response to all of my inquiries thus far. All of the PS contributors have been professional, timely, and very explanatory so far.

 

[skierdude101]

After discussing, it turns out that our amazing development and coding team already was made aware of this prior and is implementing a fix in the immediate future.

Direct, turn-of damaging attacks impact Rage Fist. Any other move does not. Think of it like moves that would trigger Counter or Mirror Coat (in the wise words of Lily). This means things like Poison damage no longer impact it.

I also want to thank Marty for his timely and helpful response to all of my inquiries thus far. All of the PS contributors have been professional, timely, and very explanatory so far.

On Serebii, the move is described to have a secondary effect similar to metronome. What’s the deal with that?
https://www.serebii.net/attackdex-sv/ragefist.shtml

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

After discussing, it turns out that our amazing development and coding team already was made aware of this prior and is implementing a fix in the immediate future.

Direct, turn-of damaging attacks impact Rage Fist. Any other move does not. Think of it like moves that would trigger Counter or Mirror Coat (in the wise words of Lily). This means things like Poison damage no longer impact it.

I also want to thank Marty for his timely and helpful response to all of my inquiries thus far. All of the PS contributors have been professional, timely, and very explanatory so far.

while a cool discovery, i dont believe it will be noticeably impactful to Annihilape's viability

edit: the biggest impact is hazards dont affect rage fist's power right?

 

[Finchinator]

On Serebii, the move is described to have a secondary effect similar to metronome. What’s the deal with that?
https://www.serebii.net/attackdex-sv/ragefist.shtml

It seems we are back to inquiring

 

[Finchinator]

On Serebii, the move is described to have a secondary effect similar to metronome. What’s the deal with that?
https://www.serebii.net/attackdex-sv/ragefist.shtml

It seems Serebii and Bulbapedia are incorrect on this matter (ofc they’re still awesome websites, but you can see info directly on the move here — thanks DaWoblefet)

 

[Finchinator]

Hopefully we have hit our inquiring quota for the day now

back to your regularly scheduled programming

 

[G-Luke]

RIP BOZO (ape not fish)

 

[KamenOH]

The bigger the power creep, the more the Council has to deal with salty little pukes like that who whine and cry about losing their favorite mons/mechanics instead of actually developing even the tiniest grain of skill. This gen is particularly bad because we got a lot of OP threats and a new potentially-broken (I personally can’t judge one way or the other) mechanic.

Call me uninformed if ya want for it might be true, but doesn't this sound like ur saying new strats lack skill? If anything, making it to the top with these new mons and mechanics takes a bit of skill in itself since they're a new experience. It just so happens that this meta leans towards offense rather than the more balance-centered meta of generations prior, and personally I think thats just fine

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

hazards wont affect rage fist once implemented right?

 

[Finchinator]

I agree we shouldn’t stop quickbans based on this

I also would say I highly doubt that’s what the poster meant and we should be more generous when interpreting posts but yeah I agree with your main point

It seems like I misunderstood his post then and thought it was geared towards tiering as a whole — sorry Bugboy and thanks pif. Just dealing with too much at once that I didn’t understand entirely.

Can speak with confidence that I’m not voting ban myself this week on the Ape anyway. Can’t speak for others, but my guess is it sticks around for now. Could be wrong though, we’ll see.

 

[Finchinator]

hazards wont affect rage fist once implemented right?

Correct

 

[KrazyKoopa95]

After discussing, it turns out that our amazing development and coding team already was made aware of this prior and is implementing a fix in the immediate future.

Direct, turn-of damaging attacks impact Rage Fist. Any other move does not. Think of it like moves that would trigger Counter or Mirror Coat (in the wise words of Lily). This means things like Poison damage no longer impact it.

I also want to thank Marty for his timely and helpful response to all of my inquiries thus far. All of the PS contributors have been professional, timely, and very explanatory so far.

If Ape hides behind a substitute & the substitute takes the hit, does it increase Rage Fist’s base power?

 

[Stories]

If Ape hides behind a substitute & the substitute takes the hit, does it increase Rage Fist’s base power?

Not on PS, I tested this frame 1 lmao

 

[Stories]

Despite these changes to correct Rage Fist, you still have to walk on egg shells to an insane degree to even hope to beat Annihilape. I do think more counterplay could be developed but if we’re not going to ban tera I think this should be banned

 

[SinnohEevee]

On Serebii, the move is described to have a secondary effect similar to metronome. What’s the deal with that?
https://www.serebii.net/attackdex-sv/ragefist.shtml

And Bulbapedia says that hitting yourself in coufusion counts.

 

[Finchinator]

If Ape hides behind a substitute & the substitute takes the hit, does it increase Rage Fist’s base power?

Not on PS, I tested this frame 1 lmao

It doesn’t — I was wrong initially. The post says: “Damaging or breaking the user's Substitute doesn't count towards damaging hits”. My apologies

 

[Fenghuang]

If Ape hides behind a substitute & the substitute takes the hit, does it increase Rage Fist’s base power?

No, but if the sub breaks it does.

 

[Reviews2D]

And Bulbapedia says that hitting yourself in coufusion counts.

Turns out there are wrong on that, refer to the Rage Fist test posted earlier in the thread

 

[Yuy]

I mean I highly doubt the Ape is going to be banned yet (I know I’m not voting to ban it and others aren’t likely to quite yet either), but to stop quickbans as a whole on this basis is a weak, insufficient argument in my eyes.

I mean I highly doubt the Ape is going to be banned yet (I know I’m not voting to ban it and others aren’t likely to quite yet either), but to stop quickbans as a whole on this basis is a weak, insufficient argument in my eyes.

Just my 2c Finch I think this meta feels very much like its own thing. I hope no efforts are made to take the flavor away. At worst we coulD make a gen 8 redux meta an OM. This one needs to maintain it's character.

 

[pika pal]

while a cool discovery, i dont believe it will be noticeably impactful to Annihilape's viability

edit: the biggest impact is hazards dont affect rage fist's power right?

This would actually be decently noteworthy for Annihilape because it means it's safe to hit with utility moves such as Taunt to prevent Rest/Bulk Up or debilitate with Status such as Will-o-Wisp without powering up the most dangerous move. Considering Rage Fist and Ape's statline/typing made it most threatening to defensive cores, this increases their counterplay to it by a pretty sizeable margin

 

[BolTingBlazie]

It doesn’t — I was wrong initially. The post says: “Damaging or breaking the user's Substitute doesn't count towards damaging hits”. My apologies

So could we possibly see the voting results tonight depending on how things go?

 

[Finchinator]

Just my 2c Finch I think this meta feels very much like its own thing. I hope no efforts are made to take the flavor away. At worst we coulD make a gen 8 redux meta an OM. This one needs to maintain it's character.

We tier for the sake of finding a competitive metagame, not to maximize the “flavor” which varies in the eye of every individual beholder anyway.

Personally, I think there are dozens of unique aspects about SV OU that are not replicated anywhere else and I cherish them all. But sometimes things have to be removed to make games more playable.

 

[Finchinator]

So could we possibly see the voting results tonight depending on how things go?

No, unlikely. Likely this weekend.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

No, unlikely. Likely this weekend.

Good to know, cannot wait to see the results!

 

[Fenghuang]

Just my 2c Finch I think this meta feels very much like its own thing. I hope no efforts are made to take the flavor away. At worst we coulD make a gen 8 redux meta an OM. This one needs to maintain it's character.

it's silly to suggest that because we want to ban overcentralizing mons that means that we're trying to turn this meta into SS OU. If we assume maximum ban-happy and we take out gholdengo, anhiliape, roaring moon, palafin, and iron bundle, that still leaves us with the donphans, the dark legendaries, the starters, kingambit, clodsire, the new pseudolegend, and all the other paradox mons as OU staples. And of course, I do not think that we should ban anhiliape, roaring moon, and probably not gholdengo either, and that leaves us with even more meta-defining toys in play. Alternatively, a gen with "its own feel" that is just mindless hyperoffense and 50/50s is not interesting nor fun.