Metagame Almost Any Ability

[cat]

hello aaa forum users, i have came to discuss unburden

unburden is broken.
notable users: iron hands

iron hands has the bulk to survive a sheer force life orb timid moonblast from flutter mane ( 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Hands through Light Screen: 370-437 (82.4 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO ) and has a 37.5% chance of getting ohkoed by modest instead ( 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Hands through Light Screen: 406-477 (90.4 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO ), both under light screen. dragapult is usually seen setting up screens for it, and can uturn its way to absorb the moonblast from a flutter or just straight up die.

side note:
my opinion can be taken with a grain of salt cos im abt 1300 ladder
why i didnt say iron hands itself is banned is cos its quite versatile w poison heal / regen and i dont really want this to be last gen's kommo-o all over again, where other bellyburden mons sprout out of nowhere
shed tail just allows bellyburden mons to set up for free too

replay of a user resorting to unaware avalugg to counter bellyburden: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-1723878171-87chnz9ga2dnhan2adxv9k26bposoa7pw

 

[Isaiah]

hello aaa forum users, i have came to discuss unburden

unburden is broken.
notable users: iron hands

iron hands has the bulk to survive a sheer force life orb timid moonblast from flutter mane ( 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Hands through Light Screen: 370-437 (82.4 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO ) and has a 37.5% chance of getting ohkoed by modest instead ( 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Hands through Light Screen: 406-477 (90.4 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO ), both under light screen. dragapult is usually seen setting up screens for it, and can uturn its way to absorb the moonblast from a flutter or just straight up die.

side note:
my opinion can be taken with a grain of salt cos im abt 1300 ladder
why i didnt say iron hands itself is banned is cos its quite versatile w poison heal / regen and i dont really want this to be last gen's kommo-o all over again, where other bellyburden mons sprout out of nowhere
shed tail just allows bellyburden mons to set up for free too

Yeah, with the way Iron Hands fits so seamlessly onto offense and picks up its BellyBurden combo on so many opponents, I wouldn't be surprised to see an Unburden ban at some point. Also as you mentioned, Iron Hands is already an incredible Pokemon, so there might even be a [smaller] possibility that it's the whole Pokemon that ends up broken...we'll see, though.

Speaking of grains of salt, though, has anyone been using Garganacl since it was posted by some other users in this thread? The other day, I learned that Salt Cure not ending even if Garganacl switches out isn't a bug and is in fact how it's supposed to work?! Unlike actual partial trapping moves that end after 4-5 turns, Salt Cure keeps going until the affected target switches out or faints. I haven't built any teams I feel are worth sharing yet, but I think just some variations of the default OU set with some AAA flavoring are probably fine.

 

[LordBox]

Yeah, with the way Iron Hands fits so seamlessly onto offense and picks up its BellyBurden combo on so many opponents, I wouldn't be surprised to see an Unburden ban at some point. Also as you mentioned, Iron Hands is already an incredible Pokemon, so there might even be a [smaller] possibility that it's the whole Pokemon that ends up broken...we'll see, though.

Speaking of grains of salt, though, has anyone been using Garganacl since it was posted by some other users in this thread? The other day, I learned that Salt Cure not ending even if Garganacl switches out isn't a bug and is in fact how it's supposed to work?! Unlike other partial trapping moves that end after 4-5 turns, Salt Cure keeps going until the affected target switches out or faints. I haven't built any teams I feel are worth sharing yet, but I think just some variations of the default OU set with some AAA flavoring are probably fine.

I tested Garganacl just a bit before and after mentioning in it my post before, I haven't actually come up with an actual team around it but slapped it in one of the generic structures I work with and it worked decently well and let an alt get to and play around 1400 well, the team is here for anyone interested. https://pokepast.es/aca0d925654fcde1

Really there's not much I can say that I didn't say in my last post here, but it can be nice, although my main issue is that it can feel pretty squishy on whatever side you don't spec into to, even after getting Iron Defense boosts on the physical side and can nuked or worn down with its 8 Recover PP easily. Salt Cure + Boosted Body Press spam can work well against some balance teams and works as a wincon, nothing much else. I did end up getting set-up on when burned by a Substitute Flutter set and also got set up on by a recover Gholdnego Nasty Plot variant but it's decent and irritating.

In terms of Iron Hands, I don't think any of the sets apart from the Unburden BDrum set are overbearing to account for and play against. They are all pretty nice and have great utility, but none I've found have an overbearing presence to play around and I've never had too much problem accounting for them when building or playing. Its versatility kinda feels like Mew from last gen's AAA but the sets are better while a bit less in variety I suppose, for me at least.

 

[Grim_Blazer]

hello aaa forum users, i have came to discuss unburden

unburden is broken.
notable users: iron hands

iron hands has the bulk to survive a sheer force life orb timid moonblast from flutter mane ( 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Hands through Light Screen: 370-437 (82.4 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO ) and has a 37.5% chance of getting ohkoed by modest instead ( 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Hands through Light Screen: 406-477 (90.4 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO ), both under light screen. dragapult is usually seen setting up screens for it, and can uturn its way to absorb the moonblast from a flutter or just straight up die.

side note:
my opinion can be taken with a grain of salt cos im abt 1300 ladder
why i didnt say iron hands itself is banned is cos its quite versatile w poison heal / regen and i dont really want this to be last gen's kommo-o all over again, where other bellyburden mons sprout out of nowhere
shed tail just allows bellyburden mons to set up for free too

I swear if council bans my favorite ability again I'm gonna cry

That said I don't think unburden is broken in this gen or the last gen (even if it does get considered for a ban though there's SO MANY other things that deserve it more) as with last generation there's one super good abuser of it, iron hands in this gen and kommo in gen 8, with some much less viable other abusers in the back. Last gen zard and the darmanitans were decent with unburden but never broke past B tier iirc since they had nowhere near the potential that kommo had in terms of bulk and viable sets, also being weak to stealth rocks severely limited them.

I would propose that we suspect Iron hands instead of unburden as a whole.

First lets talk about the alternatives to iron hands, we first have Cetitan which seems like it'd work as a faster, less bulky, stealth rocks weak alternative to Iron Hands. This would likely occupy a similar niche to charizard/darm last gen if iron hands gets banned, only with more attack and hp cause power creep. I can possibly see this being overwhelming in a no fur coat meta but it's hard to say at the moment.

Other than Cetitan and Iron Hands Ursaring is the only other mon I could see using drumburden to any effect, it is slightly faster than Iron Hands but misses out big time with its bulk, the reason why Kommo and Iron Hands are so good with drumburden is the ability to setup easily, something that zard didn't have in the last gen and that ursaring or Cetitan don't (Cetitan maybe because of the high hp stat could be overwhelming)

The only thing that I could see making drum overwhelming in this gen is shed tail, which is touched upon above, though in the case that unburden is banned why would iron hands not just start running triage on shed tail teams? Or salac berry instead of sitris berry? It seems like the problem is more about shed tail enabling crazy offensive strats and the bulk that Iron hands has allowing it to setup on so many things.

 

[Grim_Blazer]

I know I just made a post but I thought I'd put my feelings on the brokens of this gen out there cause why not.

I won't beat a dead horse, ban this already lol.

Again, won't beat a dead horse, just like last gen this is broken.

I mentioned this in my last post but I'll say it again, this mon is the kommo of gen 9 and has seemingly more viable sets. Unburden, triage, pheal, fur coat, regen, even galvanize could potentially be used on this thing, I feel like this deserves a suspect at the least.

I can see this being broken, though without tera fairy I don't know what I should think about it yet other than it's really strong.

Shed tail is crazy good as I discussed above, it enables such insane offense and makes is beyond worthwhile to have to use these otherwise lackluster mons. Could see it getting a suspect at some point in the very distant future.

Fur Coat and Ice Scales somehow don't seem as broken in a meta with crazy breakers like the ones I mentioned above but don't be fooled, I still think they deserve a suspect after some other things get banned first

The offensive aura abilities are maybe broken since iirc they're simply better than all the other offensive abilities we have like adapt (I could be wrong here please fact check me, I just remember hearing Isaiah or someone say this in the discord) but as of the moment they're just another broken thing in a sea of other broken things.

Finally I guess I'll just agree with everyone else by saying that tera is crazy and should be banned, sucks since it's a super cool idea but it's just too insane in competitive imo.

 

[Hera]

Hey there, I said recently in the suspect thread that FurScales was busted af and made mons unkillable behemoths, but neglected to post replays in a post where I bashed Tera pro-banners for neglecting to show replays as well (and as of this writing I still haven't seen a single replay showing Tera to be broken). This was partly due to an unwillingness to derail the thread, but mostly because I did not actually have replays to speak. After a brief laddering session, I would like to right that wrong and show replays of instances where I believe FurScales to be broken.

Vs Kinetic100
Here is a match where, in theory, I run into a sub-optimal matchup. MB Garchomp will always get Rocks up, multiple bulky setup sweepers can quickly plow through my team, and most threatening of all, a PH BU Great Tusks with Spin and Quake that beats my spinblocker and denies my ability to stack hazards. So what ends up happening? Using the absurd bulk benefited to both Avalugg and Blissey via their respective abilities (Fur Coat and Ice Scales), I am able to successfully PP stall the Great Tusks out of Earthquake (well technically it was left with 3 but it was not breaking past Avalugg with that many left), make GaG Skeledirge a non-issue with my SBall Blissey, and burned the opposing Garganacl while 1v1ing it with my own Skeledirge to seal the deal, with a clutch Sludge Bomb poison by Clodsire helping out tremendously. Despite my opponent having clear counterplay to stall, it is rendered null simply because my mons were too bulky to give a shit. And yes, I did Tera with Avalugg here, although it didn't really matter because the only moves on that team that could hit me with a pure Ice-typing as opposed to a pure Fairy-typing were ones I was not staying in on anyway, and the Rocks were removable using my Great Tusks.

Vs Paratrooper69
A +2 Tera Fighting Chien-Pao using Sacred Sword deals 37% to my un-Teraed Avalugg. Without Fur Coat, this would have cleanly 2HKOed and put me on the backfoot, but since I'm running the broken Fur Coat, it actually doesn't matter and I can 1v1 the Chien-Pao. Tera wouldn't have changed anything considering it was at best 3HKOed by Body Press, meaning it could SD again and force me to Recover even if I Teraed on pure reaction if Fur Coat was banned, but because Fur Coat is legal, my opponent is the one being punished for making an otherwise good play.

I can find more if desired, this was just a casual laddering session and I didn't really try to showcase specifically how FurScales creates an undesirable meta, as I don't wanna get too deep into theorymonning and the like; I just wanted to show some replays where FurScales is able to invalidate smart building and play simply because they're so bulky, and centralize the meta around even more broken threats to compensate, like PHeal BU Great Tusks or Unburden BD Iron Hands.

Btw ban PHeal, being able to challenge bulky setup sweepers like Great Tusks or Iron Hands with PHeal becomes very difficult using defensive methods because of the status immunity + healing that PHeal affords. I like the defensive utility that things like Ting-Lu provide with PHeal but I hate how it enables BU Great Tusks or SD Iron Hands even more.

 

[Isaiah]

Hey there, I said recently in the suspect thread that FurScales was busted af and made mons unkillable behemoths, but neglected to post replays in a post where I bashed Tera pro-banners for neglecting to show replays as well (and as of this writing I still haven't seen a single replay showing Tera to be broken). This was partly due to an unwillingness to derail the thread, but mostly because I did not actually have replays to speak. After a brief laddering session, I would like to right that wrong and show replays of instances where I believe FurScales to be broken.

Vs Kinetic100
Here is a match where, in theory, I run into a sub-optimal matchup. MB Garchomp will always get Rocks up, multiple bulky setup sweepers can quickly plow through my team, and most threatening of all, a PH BU Great Tusks with Spin and Quake that beats my spinblocker and denies my ability to stack hazards. So what ends up happening? Using the absurd bulk benefited to both Avalugg and Blissey via their respective abilities (Fur Coat and Ice Scales), I am able to successfully PP stall the Great Tusks out of Earthquake (well technically it was left with 3 but it was not breaking past Avalugg with that many left), make GaG Skeledirge a non-issue with my SBall Blissey, and burned the opposing Garganacl while 1v1ing it with my own Skeledirge to seal the deal, with a clutch Sludge Bomb poison by Clodsire helping out tremendously. Despite my opponent having clear counterplay to stall, it is rendered null simply because my mons were too bulky to give a shit. And yes, I did Tera with Avalugg here, although it didn't really matter because the only moves on that team that could hit me with a pure Ice-typing as opposed to a pure Fairy-typing were ones I was not staying in on anyway, and the Rocks were removable using my Great Tusks.

Vs Paratrooper69
A +2 Tera Fighting Chien-Pao using Sacred Sword deals 37% to my un-Teraed Avalugg. Without Fur Coat, this would have cleanly 2HKOed and put me on the backfoot, but since I'm running the broken Fur Coat, it actually doesn't matter and I can 1v1 the Chien-Pao. Tera wouldn't have changed anything considering it was at best 3HKOed by Body Press, meaning it could SD again and force me to Recover even if I Teraed on pure reaction if Fur Coat was banned, but because Fur Coat is legal, my opponent is the one being punished for making an otherwise good play.

I can find more if desired, this was just a casual laddering session and I didn't really try to showcase specifically how FurScales creates an undesirable meta, as I don't wanna get too deep into theorymonning and the like; I just wanted to show some replays where FurScales is able to invalidate smart building and play simply because they're so bulky, and centralize the meta around even more broken threats to compensate, like PHeal BU Great Tusks or Unburden BD Iron Hands.

Btw ban PHeal, being able to challenge bulky setup sweepers like Great Tusks or Iron Hands with PHeal becomes very difficult using defensive methods because of the status immunity + healing that PHeal affords. I like the defensive utility that things like Ting-Lu provide with PHeal but I hate how it enables BU Great Tusks or SD Iron Hands even more.

Thanks for sharing replays! This is a decent start to discussing FurScales's impact on the meta, but I do feel as though a few things were misidentified:

1) In the first battle, if we're accepting that it's a stall matchup and stall games can take a long time, Kinetic could've very feasibly ppstalled your Avalugg into not having sufficient Recovers to use by just, spamming Rapid Spin more. He had 57 of them and they were doing 11 with enough boosts. That + Knock Off + Earthquake is plenty to pp stall a Fur Coat Avalugg--and let me not make this just about Fur Coat, either. In an equation without Fur Coat, the Great Tusk's wincon is still to PP stall Avalugg, it just happens faster because Avalugg is naturally less bulky. Now, if you feel as though it shouldn't take PP management between Rapid Spin, Knock Off, and EQ to win that matchup as the Great Tusk user, I guess we just disagree on how some stall matchups should be played out; but I would further argue that acknowledging that your wincon in that matchup is to preserve EQ and force Recover using your higher PP moves isn't unreasonable to ask for in any remotely competitive setting, and if someone missed that it's okay? They can just review and maybe figure it out for the next time (in fact, here is @Quantum Tesseract almost doing that to me before I recognized how I was playing the matchup incorrectly and began to play around it as the stall user). Shadow Ball Blissey beating a Ghost-type (especially a defensive one) is arguably not anything noteworthy; that's the entire point of running that set in the first place and Unaware Blissey did the exact same thing there. I feel like I've addressed how the issue wasn't necessarily FurScales here, but rather just someone misplaying the stall matchup and losing as a result (which I as a spectator or player would be totally fine with), but I'm happy to be corrected if there's something I missed. Also another side note I wanted to add: Your Avalugg wouldn't be able to get away with running Leftovers if not for being able to reliably Tera into a Fairy-type that's no longer weak to hazards. Knocking off HDB or something and then threatening Hazard stack + Great Tusk forcing Avalugg to take chip and waste Recovers would've been an option, if not for tera (you see what I mean?).

2) No clue what Paratrooper's set was, but let's go the full mile. Here's the calc for Tough Claws Life Orb +2 Chien-Pao (not a Fighting-type) against Ice-type Avalugg: +2 252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Chien-Pao Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 289-341 (73.3 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Despite what you say, I believe Tera was the problem in that replay, because what should've happened is you sacrificed a large portion of your Avalugg's health to score a KO with Body Press in return. However, Terastallization made it so Body Press was no longer a super effective option. What I'm trying to point out here is that it didn't matter what ability the Avalugg had; this interaction should've ended in the Avalugg winning the one-on-one regardless, if not for tera. Here's the calc of Avalugg sending Chien-Pao to Digimon, if you're interested: 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chien-Pao: 600-708 (199.3 - 235.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO. So yes, without Fur Coat you would've been put on the back foot, but you a) lived regardless of your ability and b) would've at least gotten a KO for it.

Of course, this isn't even considering the fact that if the Avalugg was using Tablet of Ruin in a hypothetical situation where Fur Coat is banned (let me use Intimidate here as a substitute), the situation doesn't change a whole lot: +1 252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Chien-Pao Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 218-257 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

---------------------------------

So, what's my point? I think some of the views on Fur Coat/Ice Scales are confounded by the influence of Terastallization. I'm not satisified with "Tera wouldn't have changed anything" in situations where we can so clearly see how it changed plenty. Whether or not FurScales is broken, I don't think there's level ground to examine the two defensive abilities until Tera has been dealt with (whether it gets banned or left in the tier is up to the suspect test). Look at how much of an influence Tera had without you even realizing it, even in post-game analysis!

E: I personally think Fur Coat and Ice Scales are okay for now, but my point wasn't to turn this into a BAN/DNB back-and-forth. I just wanted to point out how maybe things could've played out differently without the influence of tera :]

E2: Jrdn put it pretty nicely in the suspect thread, btw:

Reading the discourse in this thread makes me think I'm taking crazy pills. To me, no only is Tera easily extremely broken, it is the largest roadblock we've ever seen (considering dmax was consensus ban-worthy in gen 8) regarding healthy development of a metagame. If not taken care of, in a metagame that makes tera even more insane, every other tiering decision in AAA will have tera loom large over top of it. "Is X mon broken, or is it Tera?" "Is this ability broken, or is it Tera?". And keep in mind this is with the few pokemon we have at our disposal right now. Tera already is hard to 'predict'. Add on a slew of broken mons from PLA and previous games and suddenly the already large list of tera-monsters grows ever larger.

So that's my thoughts, it's an insanely easy ban

 

[Grim_Blazer]

Vs Kinetic100

Idk if this is really the best example of fur coat being broken, I played you in a game that had the same pheal great tusk vs fairy table matchup, only with close combat instead of knock off and a more offensive team. Even though I played less than optimally I was still able to put in place a game-plan where I could stall out recovers and get the read on the skeledirge, I would go into more details but it looks like isaiah already beat me to it so I'll leave this at simply providing a contradicting replay to the one you presented above even though I agree that fur scales needs to go (after other brokens go first/at the same time as the other brokens mentioned in my earlier post)

 

[cat]

I swear if council bans my favorite ability again I'm gonna cry

That said I don't think unburden is broken in this gen or the last gen (even if it does get considered for a ban though there's SO MANY other things that deserve it more) as with last generation there's one super good abuser of it, iron hands in this gen and kommo in gen 8, with some much less viable other abusers in the back. Last gen zard and the darmanitans were decent with unburden but never broke past B tier iirc since they had nowhere near the potential that kommo had in terms of bulk and viable sets, also being weak to stealth rocks severely limited them.

I would propose that we suspect Iron hands instead of unburden as a whole.

First lets talk about the alternatives to iron hands, we first have Cetitan which seems like it'd work as a faster, less bulky, stealth rocks weak alternative to Iron Hands. This would likely occupy a similar niche to charizard/darm last gen if iron hands gets banned, only with more attack and hp cause power creep. I can possibly see this being overwhelming in a no fur coat meta but it's hard to say at the moment.

Other than Cetitan and Iron Hands Ursaring is the only other mon I could see using drumburden to any effect, it is slightly faster than Iron Hands but misses out big time with its bulk, the reason why Kommo and Iron Hands are so good with drumburden is the ability to setup easily, something that zard didn't have in the last gen and that ursaring or Cetitan don't (Cetitan maybe because of the high hp stat could be overwhelming)

The only thing that I could see making drum overwhelming in this gen is shed tail, which is touched upon above, though in the case that unburden is banned why would iron hands not just start running triage on shed tail teams? Or salac berry instead of sitris berry? It seems like the problem is more about shed tail enabling crazy offensive strats and the bulk that Iron hands has allowing it to setup on so many things.

spoiler: unreleased pokemon
ursuluna gets belly drum, and with access to cc, headlong rush (ground cc), and a huge variety of coverage moves, burden just gets a new abuser when home comes out. this will result in a situation similar to last respects/houndstone, where the question is if last respects is broken, or the mon itself is broken. home fixes the issue for ou when basculegion comes out and prob bans last respects instead. back to my point, unburden is the last respects of aaa. even if we ban both iron hands and ursuluna, bellyburden zard will probably pop out like last gen. banning iron hands imo is a bad idea as it has enough bulk with 252 hp evs to have a 50% chance of surviving a modest specs sheer force moonblast, of all things, as unlikely as someone using modest specs sheer force ( 252+ SpA Choice Specs Sheer Force Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Iron Hands: 469-553 (91.6 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO ) this can make it a key part of the defensive metagame to stave off literally everything. luna has promise as a regenvest user ( 252+ SpA Choice Specs Sheer Force Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Ursaluna: 190-225 (40.9 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO ). both also have potential as bulky offense users, which is why imo we dont suspect test iron hands and have unburden be suspect tested

 

[DeepFriedMagikarp]

Unburden doesnt necessarily have to be with belly drum. I've seen lots of intresting concepts utilizing stuff like electric seed with hadron engine support, Throat Spray, or just non-bd setup sweepers in general.

 

[cat]

Unburden doesnt necessarily have to be with belly drum. I've seen lots of intresting concepts utilizing stuff like electric seed with hadron engine support, Throat Spray, or just non-bd setup sweepers in general.

that is true, unburden can be used on more niche sets. i myself used unburden kommo-o in gen 8 aaa (shocking) but as a clangorous soul throat spray sweeper (was trash). but when unburden can cause someone to use unaware avalugg (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-1723878171-87chnz9ga2dnhan2adxv9k26bposoa7pw), i'd say thats not a healthy metagame. its hard not to ban unburden for the niche sets when a huge threat is right there

 

[Grim_Blazer]

ursuluna gets belly drum

I’ve not had enough time to really look at this mon enough but iirc I feel like it would probably get banned anyways, fur coat, pheal, regen, scarf, triage, it feels like a similar problem that hands has to me.

bellyburden zard will probably pop out like last gen.

zard was perfectly manageable last gen and would be even easier to manage with gag shutting down defog and everyone getting rocks, sure it’d be good IF it sets up but setting up in an environment where hazards consistently stay up would limit an already limited mon.

My proposal is suspect iron hands in the near future and when home comes out decide whether to suspect 1 more Pokémon or to suspect unburden. Regardless unburden should be pretty low on the priority list since we still have bundle, fur scales, and dragonite in the tier.

 

[Glimmer]

Wanted to talk about and for quite a while now so here i go

Devils Cheer (Wo-Chien) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed
- Foul Play / Giga Drain
- Protect

I've had quite a lot of fun with this set specifically, as the snail is one of the only knock receivers so it can force a lot of progress by itself by just existing and clicking Knock Off Leech Seed and Protect. Knock Off is again one of its main appeals over for me, Leech Seed also heals and absurd amount of health in combination with Poison Heal, so the mon stays healthy through the game generally. Foul Play is just to make it not set-up fodder, but something along the likes of Giga Drain also works if you aren't concerned about physical set up at all.

Skipped a Beat (Sandy Shocks) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Hadron Engine
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Volt Switch
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt / Power Gem

Although lacks coverage, Spikes is a very useful move because generally forces in more passive stuff like , so can capitalize on those turns by setting up Spikes for its teammates. Power Gem can be used to cover but needs to be modest to OHKO 93.8% of the time after a Quiver Dance.

252+ SpA Life Orb Sandy Shocks Power Gem vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 307-364 (98.7 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sandy Shocks Power Gem vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 281-333 (90.3 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
(for an extra note, if is Timid or bulky, when knocked off lives one Flamethrower)
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sandy Shocks: 259-306 (83.2 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I liked these sets a lot and experimented with them quite a lot on this team

And heres a replay where i think the team did pretty well! https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-1729576866
(and also updated the team a bit, you can check the new version out if you want)

 

[CookieGlob]

hello i wanted to talk about some mons/sets that haven't been talked about much

peaked at 1361 using basically only these three under veil bundle ho if that means anything
fell off to 1260 cause im ass tho

hatterene

hat trick (Hatterene) @ Leftovers
Ability: Triage
Tera Type: Normal/Fairy
EVs: 196 HP / 60 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Draining Kiss
- Psyshock
- Healing Wish/Giga Drain/Mystical Fire
- Calm Mind

this thing is a demon under screens, psyshock to beat other spa boosters, tera normal to surprise ghost types but tera fairy is great for big idiot damage

if you get enough setup you can muscle past some steels but never ice scale users

giga drain and mystical fire are options but i never used them, nuzzle might be an idea to cheese 1v1s u shouldnt win? but i've never used it

evs for leftovers and anti-troom because why not

roaring moon

raaagh i eat booty (Roaring Moon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Dazzling
Tera Type: Steel/Poison
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Dragon Dance

this thing can 1v12 entire teams cause taunt dd with dazzling sets up on a lot that you wouldnt expect, and crunch eq is almost completely unresisted rn

would love to run roost but losing out on coverage/taunt kinda sucks

tera steel is literally only a defensive tera, u could run tera poison for something similar and beat high def body press users (even with taunt and screens support the lack of recovery really stings if u cant muscle past a wall fast enough)

cloyster

aketemite (Cloyster) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast/Drill Run
- Ice Shard
- Shell Smash

set up once and clean, tera ice boosts your icicle spears to the stratosphere:

who thought this was okay

+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (4 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 156-184 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- approx. 2HKO

be careful if there's +2 and +3 priority users (espeed and triage are often counters, without white herb u barely take hits even with screens support)

also beaten by fur coat set up mons usually

drill run's an idea to beat some steels but i never found myself using it

jolly could also be run over ada but i like my damage too much, helps with ice shard in a pinch too

my 1st post so forgive me if im doing something wrong

 

[Ardy]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-1724502610

Im aware this is low ladder and my team is shit, I just want to share the funniest set I've come up with so far

Iron Thorns @ Air Balloon
Ability: Rocky Payload
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch

Tera Rock + Rocky Payload + Adamant DD Stone Edge does absurd damage. Probably not the most viable mon or set to run, and you might wanna run ttar instead for better defensive typing + better defenses + better STAB combo, but I thought the extra speed would help out a DD set. You could also run like Lycanrock or something for Rocky Payload Accelrock or something idk. But definitely a fun set.

 

[Eiden]

Unaware Blissey is really good. (Turns 14 to 17.)

I don't know if that can be used as evidence to say that unaware blissey is good rather than Blissey being good in general. Though admittedly I stopped watching immediately after you KO'd the ceruledge, the issue is ..... the ceruledge got KO'd. At that point you took out all of their physical attackers and the match became blissey vs all special attackers, which in majority of circumstances is an auto-loss in general. Typical requirements to beat Blissey with a special attackers is:

- You must be psychic type
- You must have Psyshock or be able to rapidly boost your stored power fast enough before the blissey kills you
- Blissey must be tricked and you can never click knock off again until it dies.

Practically anything on blissey is good when you do not have to worry about a physical attackers. Yes, I say this with Blissey's nerfs in mind. Assuredly, I can list 20+ different random Blisseys off the top of my head that would have won that same scenario.

It's like having shedninja against a monotype team. It's like having Corviknight or Avalugg against a team full of physical attackers, your win is garanteed on preview as long as they don't trick you a choiced item. What are they gonna do? Kill you?

 

[cat]

I’ve not had enough time to really look at this mon enough but iirc I feel like it would probably get banned anyways, fur coat, pheal, regen, scarf, triage, it feels like a similar problem that hands has to me.



zard was perfectly manageable last gen and would be even easier to manage with gag shutting down defog and everyone getting rocks, sure it’d be good IF it sets up but setting up in an environment where hazards consistently stay up would limit an already limited mon.

My proposal is suspect iron hands in the near future and when home comes out decide whether to suspect 1 more Pokémon or to suspect unburden. Regardless unburden should be pretty low on the priority list since we still have bundle, fur scales, and dragonite in the tier.

i have had a second thought, one where unburden isnt the problem. maybe belly drum is the problem. idt i really need to say how belly is good (broken), but DeepFriedMagikarp brought an idea to me that unburden isnt as broken w/o belly

 

[Isaiah]

Scream Tail @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Dazzling Gleam
- Bulk Up

Absolutely hilarious set, courtesy of Quantum Tesseract. It's like using that Cosmic Power Mew set again.

Dunno if this team is any good, but figured it would be fun to share and let others give this a try :]

 

[blastablasta]

Unburden doesnt necessarily have to be with belly drum. I've seen lots of intresting concepts utilizing stuff like electric seed with hadron engine support, Throat Spray, or just non-bd setup sweepers in general.

I used unburden electric seed tombstone with last respects, was a fun meme team with hadron engine dragapult, I feel like someone with less of a love for stall could make it work, I made half the team stall and half the team offense

I'll post the meme set for fun

Houndstone @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Last Respects
- Rest
- Howl

with a more dedicated heavy offense team I really think there is untapped potential with this set

and yes the rest howl meme has won me games

maybe slush rush with chilly reception slowbro would be better

Now that Annihilape is banned

Primeape @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Protect
- Drain Punch
- Rage Fist
Time to use its pre-evolution in similar to be just as broken.

I want to see someone bring this

eviolite regen also viable

wait I just figured it out, ice scales eviolite, then the same moves, maybe rest over protect

 

[Nitro Indigo]

Scream Tail @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Steel

Would it stay poisoned after it Terastalized?

 

[blastablasta]

Would it stay poisoned after it Terastalized?

yes

 

[Grim_Blazer]

Houndstone @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Last Respects
- Rest
- Howl

I've been using a similar set to this a lot and it has won me so many games

Houndstone @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Last Respects
- Destiny Bond
- Substitute
- Howl

Destiny bond is nice if you cant break through something with last respects for some reason or another and everything else is kinda self explanatory, though I have ran play rough in case of stuff like ling-lu you still arent doing that much to it anyways so its probably better to run howl or something instead

 

[UT]

I want to talk about the absolute state of entry hazard control in this metagame, and what that means for teambuilding.

Defog
Here is a screenshot of every fully evolved Defogger currently in SV:

Outside of Corviknight, that list is dire. Noivern is obviously a good mon, but does not have the bulk to be a passable Defogger. Scizor would have been passible last gen, but the loss of Roost and Knock Off is devastating for it, and Talonflame's famed MGLO sets do not keep up with the higher power level (or dumb new Speed tiers) in SV. In short, outside of Corviknight, we arguably have zero other viable Defoggers.

Rapid Spin
Here is the same screenshot for spinners:

On the Rapid Spin front we are doing a little better; Great Tusk and Iron Treads are great mons, but lack native recovery so have to compete for coveted Regenerator and Poison Heal slots. Cyclizar has amazing utility in general, but is likely limited to more offensive teams and again, competes for a Regen slot. Avalugg either desperately wants to take the Tera slot or is hindered by an awful typing, while Quaquaval seems fine on offensive teams ig? But still, very little sustainability. Everything past that is fairy niche.

Other Removal (Mortal Spin and Tidy Up)
Tidy Up is a hilariously broken move, but only on Maushold, which certainly does not have the bulk or recovery to be a reliable hazard remover. Mortal Spin is similarly relegated to Glimmora which has a...suspect...typing and no native recovery. Neither of these should be considered consistent removal options.

Entry Hazard Prevention (Magic Bounce)
Magic Bounce is the other semi-reliable way to control hazards, but has two key drawbacks. First, it needs to be able to actively switch into the entry hazard setters, and if you are aware of a Magic Bounce user that can come in on every Rocks/Spikes/Toxic Spikes user, please let me know. Secondly, it requires giving up the ability slot, which in the FurScales meta, is a big ask. This is also unreliable into Moldy users, which are much more relevant this generation thanks to bypassing FurScales as well.

What does this all mean?
Realistically, most teams will be relying on one of Corviknight, Great Tusk, or Iron Treads for hazard removal. This creates a problem, as all of them can be blanked by either Good as Gold or Ghost-types, making hazard stack a potent option. The decline of Magic Guard and Regenerator, plus the more limited PP of recovery moves, all amplify the effect of entry hazards. Heavy-Duty Boots has a higher cost as well, as it means you have to forgo the passive recovery of Leftovers for walls and are more likely to struggle against Poison Heal, Fur Coat, and Ice Scales as an attacker.


Skeledirge @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Good as Gold
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off

Meet Corviknight's worst nightmare. Good as Gold blocks any Defog attempts, Wisp punishes incoming attackers, and Torch Song can snowball against more passive teams. Wisp can also potentially beat non-Poison Heal variants of Iron Threads and Great Tusks. Slack Off provides excellent longevity, allowing it generally outlast Corviknight and common spinners.


Palossand @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shore Up
- Shadow Ball / Earth Power
- Stealth Rock / Earth Power
- Skill Swap

A more passive but more dedicated spinblocker. It has more favorable matchup into Iron Threads and can punish Poison Heal Great Tusk with Skill Swap, but is much more passive, especially against Corv. If you want hazards up though, it is a great removal denial option.

Is this a problem?
Short answer, remains to be seen. Magic Bounce will always make hazard stacking risky, and Poison Heal mons are able to sit on hazard stackers all day long; however, both abilities have been banned before and might be again. FurScales is also high on the watch list, and if it is removed, perhaps hazard stackers will even more easily overpower opposing walls. Or, maybe we will just all cope and run Mold Breaker Defog. It's way too early to tell, but I definitely have my eye on how overpowering hazard stacking can be; it's certainly not at the top of the watchlist, but I am very curious to see how the hazard metagame revolves.

 

[blastablasta]

I want to talk about the absolute state of entry hazard control in this metagame, and what that means for teambuilding.

Defog
Here is a screenshot of every fully evolved Defogger currently in SV:
View attachment 469651
Outside of Corviknight, that list is dire. Noivern is obviously a good mon, but does not have the bulk to be a passable Defogger. Scizor would have been passible last gen, but the loss of Roost and Knock Off is devastating for it, and Talonflame's famed MGLO sets do not keep up with the higher power level (or dumb new Speed tiers) in SV. In short, outside of Corviknight, we arguably have zero other viable Defoggers.

Rapid Spin
Here is the same screenshot for spinners:
View attachment 469652
On the Rapid Spin front we are doing a little better; Great Tusk and Iron Treads are great mons, but lack native recovery so have to compete for coveted Regenerator and Poison Heal slots. Cyclizar has amazing utility in general, but is likely limited to more offensive teams and again, competes for a Regen slot. Avalugg either desperately wants to take the Tera slot or is hindered by an awful typing, while Quaquaval seems fine on offensive teams ig? But still, very little sustainability. Everything past that is fairy niche.

Other Removal (Mortal Spin and Tidy Up)
Tidy Up is a hilariously broken move, but only on Maushold, which certainly does not have the bulk or recovery to be a reliable hazard remover. Mortal Spin is similarly relegated to Glimmora which has a...suspect...typing and no native recovery. Neither of these should be considered consistent removal options.

Entry Hazard Prevention (Magic Bounce)
Magic Bounce is the other semi-reliable way to control hazards, but has two key drawbacks. First, it needs to be able to actively switch into the entry hazard setters, and if you are aware of a Magic Bounce user that can come in on every Rocks/Spikes/Toxic Spikes user, please let me know. Secondly, it requires giving up the ability slot, which in the FurScales meta, is a big ask. This is also unreliable into Moldy users, which are much more relevant this generation thanks to bypassing FurScales as well.

What does this all mean?
Realistically, most teams will be relying on one of Corviknight, Great Tusk, or Iron Treads for hazard removal. This creates a problem, as all of them can be blanked by either Good as Gold or Ghost-types, making hazard stack a potent option. The decline of Magic Guard and Regenerator, plus the more limited PP of recovery moves, all amplify the effect of entry hazards. Heavy-Duty Boots has a higher cost as well, as it means you have to forgo the passive recovery of Leftovers for walls and are more likely to struggle against Poison Heal, Fur Coat, and Ice Scales as an attacker.


Skeledirge @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Good as Gold
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off

Meet Corviknight's worst nightmare. Good as Gold blocks any Defog attempts, Wisp punishes incoming attackers, and Torch Song can snowball against more passive teams. Wisp can also potentially beat non-Poison Heal variants of Iron Threads and Great Tusks. Slack Off provides excellent longevity, allowing it generally outlast Corviknight and common spinners.


Palossand @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shore Up
- Shadow Ball / Earth Power
- Stealth Rock / Earth Power
- Skill Swap

A more passive but more dedicated spinblocker. It has more favorable matchup into Iron Threads and can punish Poison Heal Great Tusk with Skill Swap, but is much more passive, especially against Corv. If you want hazards up though, it is a great removal denial option.

Is this a problem?
Short answer, remains to be seen. Magic Bounce will always make hazard stacking risky, and Poison Heal mons are able to sit on hazard stackers all day long; however, both abilities have been banned before and might be again. FurScales is also high on the watch list, and if it is removed, perhaps hazard stackers will even more easily overpower opposing walls. Or, maybe we will just all cope and run Mold Breaker Defog. It's way too early to tell, but I definitely have my eye on how overpowering hazard stacking can be; it's certainly not at the top of the watchlist, but I am very curious to see how the hazard metagame revolves.

I would like to add that while the set you've shown for skeledirge is good, I think max special attack quiet is probably better, I've 1hkoed the poison heal donphan boys from max hp after a torch song with hex, really skeledirge probably can't beat talonflame, unless

you run lick, which I am now running

also minus speed nature so you are slower than corviknight and are guaranteed to hit the switchin, which is commonly volcpoison, or donphan, clodsire, or poison heal tinglu also lick can't be blocked by opposing skeledirge with gog, lick also beats well baked body corv which the standard set without lick can't do anything to

Skeledirge @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Slack Off
- Lick
- Hex
- Torch Song

overall though great summary of the metagame as a whole

 

[Eiden]

I want to talk about the absolute state of entry hazard control in this metagame, and what that means for teambuilding.

Defog
Here is a screenshot of every fully evolved Defogger currently in SV:
View attachment 469651
Outside of Corviknight, that list is dire. Noivern is obviously a good mon, but does not have the bulk to be a passable Defogger. Scizor would have been passible last gen, but the loss of Roost and Knock Off is devastating for it, and Talonflame's famed MGLO sets do not keep up with the higher power level (or dumb new Speed tiers) in SV. In short, outside of Corviknight, we arguably have zero other viable Defoggers.

Rapid Spin
Here is the same screenshot for spinners:
View attachment 469652
On the Rapid Spin front we are doing a little better; Great Tusk and Iron Treads are great mons, but lack native recovery so have to compete for coveted Regenerator and Poison Heal slots. Cyclizar has amazing utility in general, but is likely limited to more offensive teams and again, competes for a Regen slot. Avalugg either desperately wants to take the Tera slot or is hindered by an awful typing, while Quaquaval seems fine on offensive teams ig? But still, very little sustainability. Everything past that is fairy niche.

Other Removal (Mortal Spin and Tidy Up)
Tidy Up is a hilariously broken move, but only on Maushold, which certainly does not have the bulk or recovery to be a reliable hazard remover. Mortal Spin is similarly relegated to Glimmora which has a...suspect...typing and no native recovery. Neither of these should be considered consistent removal options.

Entry Hazard Prevention (Magic Bounce)
Magic Bounce is the other semi-reliable way to control hazards, but has two key drawbacks. First, it needs to be able to actively switch into the entry hazard setters, and if you are aware of a Magic Bounce user that can come in on every Rocks/Spikes/Toxic Spikes user, please let me know. Secondly, it requires giving up the ability slot, which in the FurScales meta, is a big ask. This is also unreliable into Moldy users, which are much more relevant this generation thanks to bypassing FurScales as well.

What does this all mean?
Realistically, most teams will be relying on one of Corviknight, Great Tusk, or Iron Treads for hazard removal. This creates a problem, as all of them can be blanked by either Good as Gold or Ghost-types, making hazard stack a potent option. The decline of Magic Guard and Regenerator, plus the more limited PP of recovery moves, all amplify the effect of entry hazards. Heavy-Duty Boots has a higher cost as well, as it means you have to forgo the passive recovery of Leftovers for walls and are more likely to struggle against Poison Heal, Fur Coat, and Ice Scales as an attacker.


Skeledirge @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Good as Gold
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off

Meet Corviknight's worst nightmare. Good as Gold blocks any Defog attempts, Wisp punishes incoming attackers, and Torch Song can snowball against more passive teams. Wisp can also potentially beat non-Poison Heal variants of Iron Threads and Great Tusks. Slack Off provides excellent longevity, allowing it generally outlast Corviknight and common spinners.


Palossand @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shore Up
- Shadow Ball / Earth Power
- Stealth Rock / Earth Power
- Skill Swap

A more passive but more dedicated spinblocker. It has more favorable matchup into Iron Threads and can punish Poison Heal Great Tusk with Skill Swap, but is much more passive, especially against Corv. If you want hazards up though, it is a great removal denial option.

Is this a problem?
Short answer, remains to be seen. Magic Bounce will always make hazard stacking risky, and Poison Heal mons are able to sit on hazard stackers all day long; however, both abilities have been banned before and might be again. FurScales is also high on the watch list, and if it is removed, perhaps hazard stackers will even more easily overpower opposing walls. Or, maybe we will just all cope and run Mold Breaker Defog. It's way too early to tell, but I definitely have my eye on how overpowering hazard stacking can be; it's certainly not at the top of the watchlist, but I am very curious to see how the hazard metagame revolves.

You have some very nice formatting. I do though have some differing views.

Defog

Talon Flame and Noivern and Hawlucha are actually great defoggers. A reason Noivern can get annoying is because aside from hitting hard, it can actually afford to run roost and when it gets it, it can only really be forced out by something it cannot damage like a blissey. Bulkier setters cannot really pack enough of a punch to threaten it.

Stone edge is a rare sight on treads and tusk due to them running rapid spin. Even then, without counting abilities, Great tusk who is probably the most offensive of the setters with maximum attack EVs and nature is just barely ohkoing a 2x weak Noivern with 0 EVs in HP and Defense using stone edge 62% chance 80% to 110% damage. Being a Flying type that has some form of recovery in general makes some a viable defogger and it's the hazard setter who has to account for that.

Rapid Spin

Rapid Spinners in general lack natural recovery as the move has one of the highest pp. I don't really see competing for ability slots as a substantial argument for this case, especially when considering nearly all of the abilities are available this gen. Competition for ability slots is part of aaa's nature in general, majority of rapid Spinners can make good use Regen since Regen is normally run as a means of recovery for mons with no natural recovery. Both corv and Avalugg compete for well baked but both make good use of it either was. Same with -ate abilities for offensive mons. 50% of the rapid Spinners are also hazard setters themselves. Cyclizar is great utility because it has Regen. Majority of ghost types would also be heavily damaged by the rapid spinner going for any other move they aren't immune to, the plan being to little the rapid spinner down so they don't have to worry about it anymore, something regenerator would mitigate quite well. Alot of ghost types also do not get knock off while rapid Spinners do.

Avalugg ... does not desperately want the terra slot. It is ice type to nerf it due to its incredible defensive stats that allows it to tank even super effective moves with comfort. Despite its typing, it is typically one of the last mons to fall as well as one of the most frequently switched in. Ting-lu, aggron, and such monsters with high defensive capabilities are given their typings because they can tank things so well.

Other Removal

In this OM maushold can indeed be made into a reliable hazard remover. Tidy Up is indeed an op move in that its hazard removal capabilities can only be negated by taunt.

Glimmora ... does indeed have a suspect type.


Magic Bounce

... Every ability requires you to sacrifice an ability slot and magic bounce is not a bad ability. It's actually in the same tier as good as gold. What's beging overlooked hazard setters aren't running mold breaking abilities right now. The presence of magic bounce is what usually forces that. With this being a new gen people are still experimenting. Slither wing is actually an excellent magic bouncer that is able to switch in and even set up on majority of hazard setters, even coming with its own natural recovery. Bug/Fighting is an excellent combo considering majority of hazard setters are walled by it and take either neutral or super effective damage from it. The same "takes up an ability slots" argument serves as a double edged sword. If they run mold breaker on their hazard setters, they take it away from a Mon that could use it to bypass a type immunity ability or damage reduction ability. It also means they need to dedicate a second ability slot to good as gold if they wanted to stop defoggers and is not accounting for the opponents team. You'd be dedicating two pokemon to keep hazards up. Saying magic bounce "takes up and ability slots" sounds like downplaying it and makes it sound like a c tier ability despite being a great ability that gets distributed to sub par mons on purpose due to its power of "no u".

What does it all mean?

Corviknight, Great Tusk, and Treads aren't blanketed by good as gold or ghost types. Those mons are switched in as a prediction that you are going to choose to attempt to remove hazards on a given turn rather than click any other move that'll likely nuke the incoming mon's hp. Corviknight in particular tends to force both good as gold and ghost types out alike. Good as good as also likely to be placed on a ghost type as well, meaning once again corviknight or the other two would kill it or force it out.

There does seem to be a contradiction as well near the end of this section. You say it stat that it helps take down walls but then immediately 180 in the same sentence and say it makes it harder to take down walls. Heavy duty boots always meant forgoing something else, it's why boots are mandatory on virtually every blissey. And they are definitely not a bad item, heck teams with full heavy duty boots are quite difficult to take down or feasible to make survive and serve other purposes than making walls ignore hazards. Cinderace with boots got sent to Ubers as it could keep coming in and eventually get a bulk up off.

Both ghost types you showed are definitely not Corviknight's worst nightmare. The Skeledirge actually gets 100% walled and forced out by Corv. Please do not forget brave bird corv is just as common as body press Corv.

If palosand ever used skill swap ... the hazards can then be defogged. It's also relying on tusk having poison heal and itself being capable of tanking hits from the rapid spinner who may also be a hazard setters their self.

Most of the issues here seem to be more team building oriented rather than hazard related.


I forgot how to use spoiler tags (animated and shiny sprites too). Will shorten this when I figure out how.