Hatterene checks Whirlwind Ting-Lu and Slack Off Hippowdon pretty well.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
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Hatterene checks Whirlwind Ting-Lu and Slack Off Hippowdon pretty well.
Tuesday the 27th at 5pm EST (GMT-5) for round 2, MudkipNerd playing for my council spot. Be there
Your OU council spot NU council spot or both?
I'll be chearing for whoever draws out the match with stall more. More stall means more Finchinator vs MudkipNerd!
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I`ve been playing this meta very extensively the past week and I really love a lot about it. The way recovery moves got nerfed, the lack of a lot of the usual resources and mainly the way defog was nerfed through gholdengo, a lot more to like but overall it still feels really fresh and should be getting better after tera suspect as long as it isnt outright banned to me(hoping for 1 mon per team). I wanted to share some of what ive come up with personally so far as i wont be having as much time through the holidays next few days, and then the suspect vote will happen with probably some quickbans so just really felt like talking about stuff (not really claiming any set is mine or anything if someone made it before, havent really read any of the threads lol)
Great Tusk @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground / Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake / Headlong Rush
- Close Combat
- Ice Spinner
- Rapid Spin
This one isn't really creative but it is my favorite set to use in the metagame rn, so had to talk about it. As I got higher up on the ladder I started to pay more attention to what people use, and I noticed a lot of teams that just outright dont have ground resists, which kinda pissed me off. Then I realized that well, resisting ground in this meta is actually kinda tough. Most of what resists ground isnt really a resist(meow, breloom, toedscruel, lokix to name a few). Basically, most teams' answer to ground is one of the following 3 for the most part: Corviknight, Rotom-Wash or Dragonite.
This set obliterates all 3, cc does 51-60 to maxdef corv. It basically 2kos the entire meta(except for i guess slither wing, but it has to be physdef), but the mon is also a fatass so you can 1v1 trade with a lot of stuff, and it's actually decently fast for the tier. It reminds me of when people used CB zygarde-snake-form, without espeed but still. I could end up being very wrong as this thing just has so many good sets in general(most consistent spinner) but I could see this becoming extremely common as the tier becomes more balance-oriented and the obvious broken shit gets banned. It's just a set that rewards good prediction and is consistently strong every game(breaks vs fat, trades vs offense). You can also put edge for pelipper and the rare zard/talon.
Following the same ground weakness observation I also made a CB ting lu team for surprise effect+zone to get corv which blunder used for his live(
) , which brings me to the next set on the same team:
Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA (could run faster than spdef ape)
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Body Press
- Roost
- anything
I wanted to have something to cover tusk myself(ice spinner at least doesnt seem be common ATM), so I experienced with a more defensive dnite. Hurricane is nice for annihilape and if ur opp has chien pao you should be able to snag a free kill with tera bpress. Last move can be anything, I like flame to soft check gholdengo. Really damn good when i faced offense but tbh more of a meme set and meme team too though after i tried it more(i was unable to figure out how to not lose to dd roost dnite, also too weak to water), it also gets pretty unreliable vs annihilape with misses and stuff, but the idea is still interesting
Roaring Moon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Whatever fits best for the team
EVs: 252 HP / 136 SpD / 120 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Jaw Lock
- Earthquake
- Roost
- U-turn
This thing is a really nice glue for balance builds as really the only true chi-yu answer I could find, literally. Blissey gets destroyed by nasty plot and ttar gets destroyed by tera grass(the most common tera for it, which is also nice for this set). Hydreigon gets unreliable as you need to win speedties but this is faster, eats every hit really well and is also not dead meat as you can get to pivot with u-turn. I like jaw lock a lot because you stop your opponent from being able to double if they bring in something like iron valiant or scarf tusk, which can be pretty nice sometimes.
You can also just run a fat dd set and win though as long as no wisp, just wanted to talk about this guy as a fat set and as a specific chi-yu answer. I will admit it doesn't beat that much more but its been decent until that shit is evidently quickbanned
edit: i was using this more and i realized that jaw lock gets u trapped too LMAO should just be crunch
Gastrodon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sticky Hold
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Tera Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Recover
Palossand @ Colbur Berry / Leftovers / Helmet / Boots
Ability: Water Compaction
Tera Type: whatever fits best
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Shore Up
- anything
Both ideas came from observing the clear Great Tusk domination. Gastros the only viable pokémon to have sticky hold, which makes flying gastro a complete counter to tusk as long as its not ice spinner, as you're unable to be knocked so you dont take rocks and resist everything forever. This makes it also able to force it out and gets spikes up reliably, which also no other spiker can do(except heracross I guess). Idk about the moves for now but i think the idea is interesting and so is gastro as a tera mon with sticky hold
Palossand is the only ghost type I could find that reliably stops Tusk from spinning. It eats all its hits pretty well as long as no sun. I think this could be specially cool for a more fast-paced stall team similar to some DPP teams back in the no defog days. The sand castle blocks most spinners(except spin quaquaval i guess), you put something to put spikes, gholdengo to block defog, stuff with knock for boots, probably your own spinner or something....
Toxapex @ Mental Herb
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Infestation
- Recover
- Haze
Pex is actually pretty good which is insane considering how many nerfs it got. This is the set ive been using the most because you beat annihilape(have only seen sub very few times) and then you also proceed to wall like 4/6 pokémon from standard offense. Infestation is pretty decent with rocks up and everything having 8 PP recovery, tera steel for the stupid ostrich
Covert cloak is also great for stalling garg and obviously just black sludge if you wanna deal with chi-yu better instead
Quaquaval @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: depends
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Step
- Close Combat
- Ice Spinner
- Taunt
imo the best 4 moves+item for quaquaval. A lot of curse restalk dondozo atm and instead of being useless against it you actually beat it, you wanna time taunt well though because of the PP from close combat. Can also beat pex if you can knock it with someone(or just manage to get a moxie boost).The synergy of the moves is really strong and this thing becomes a prick late game
Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Aura Sphere
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic Terrain
Hawlucha @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Fling
this one actually sucked ass but basically the idea was that i wanted to use lucha HO but didnt wanna waste a slot with one of the shitty terrain mons of this tier(havent tried arboliva enough yet though maybe it could be cool with lucha), you're basically meant to do as much damage as possible with valiant, maybe get a bait kill on gholdengo, then put terrain and sweep with lucha. Fling is just in case it doesn't work but it doesnt actually do damage. Went with psychic terrain to stop priority for the other mons too. pretty ungood but maybe at a different time
Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Quiver Dance
- Morning Sun
common set but this thing is so broken vs no garg or croc
Great Tusk @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground / Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake / Headlong Rush
- Close Combat
- Ice Spinner
- Rapid Spin
This one isn't really creative but it is my favorite set to use in the metagame rn, so had to talk about it. As I got higher up on the ladder I started to pay more attention to what people use, and I noticed a lot of teams that just outright dont have ground resists, which kinda pissed me off. Then I realized that well, resisting ground in this meta is actually kinda tough. Most of what resists ground isnt really a resist(meow, breloom, toedscruel, lokix to name a few). Basically, most teams' answer to ground is one of the following 3 for the most part: Corviknight, Rotom-Wash or Dragonite.
This set obliterates all 3, cc does 51-60 to maxdef corv. It basically 2kos the entire meta(except for i guess slither wing, but it has to be physdef), but the mon is also a fatass so you can 1v1 trade with a lot of stuff, and it's actually decently fast for the tier. It reminds me of when people used CB zygarde-snake-form, without espeed but still. I could end up being very wrong as this thing just has so many good sets in general(most consistent spinner) but I could see this becoming extremely common as the tier becomes more balance-oriented and the obvious broken shit gets banned. It's just a set that rewards good prediction and is consistently strong every game(breaks vs fat, trades vs offense). You can also put edge for pelipper and the rare zard/talon.
Following the same ground weakness observation I also made a CB ting lu team for surprise effect+zone to get corv which blunder used for his live(
Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA (could run faster than spdef ape)
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Body Press
- Roost
- anything
I wanted to have something to cover tusk myself(ice spinner at least doesnt seem be common ATM), so I experienced with a more defensive dnite. Hurricane is nice for annihilape and if ur opp has chien pao you should be able to snag a free kill with tera bpress. Last move can be anything, I like flame to soft check gholdengo. Really damn good when i faced offense but tbh more of a meme set and meme team too though after i tried it more(i was unable to figure out how to not lose to dd roost dnite, also too weak to water), it also gets pretty unreliable vs annihilape with misses and stuff, but the idea is still interesting
Roaring Moon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Whatever fits best for the team
EVs: 252 HP / 136 SpD / 120 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Jaw Lock
- Earthquake
- Roost
- U-turn
This thing is a really nice glue for balance builds as really the only true chi-yu answer I could find, literally. Blissey gets destroyed by nasty plot and ttar gets destroyed by tera grass(the most common tera for it, which is also nice for this set). Hydreigon gets unreliable as you need to win speedties but this is faster, eats every hit really well and is also not dead meat as you can get to pivot with u-turn. I like jaw lock a lot because you stop your opponent from being able to double if they bring in something like iron valiant or scarf tusk, which can be pretty nice sometimes.
You can also just run a fat dd set and win though as long as no wisp, just wanted to talk about this guy as a fat set and as a specific chi-yu answer. I will admit it doesn't beat that much more but its been decent until that shit is evidently quickbanned
edit: i was using this more and i realized that jaw lock gets u trapped too LMAO should just be crunch
Gastrodon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sticky Hold
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Tera Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Recover
Palossand @ Colbur Berry / Leftovers / Helmet / Boots
Ability: Water Compaction
Tera Type: whatever fits best
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Shore Up
- anything
Both ideas came from observing the clear Great Tusk domination. Gastros the only viable pokémon to have sticky hold, which makes flying gastro a complete counter to tusk as long as its not ice spinner, as you're unable to be knocked so you dont take rocks and resist everything forever. This makes it also able to force it out and gets spikes up reliably, which also no other spiker can do(except heracross I guess). Idk about the moves for now but i think the idea is interesting and so is gastro as a tera mon with sticky hold
Palossand is the only ghost type I could find that reliably stops Tusk from spinning. It eats all its hits pretty well as long as no sun. I think this could be specially cool for a more fast-paced stall team similar to some DPP teams back in the no defog days. The sand castle blocks most spinners(except spin quaquaval i guess), you put something to put spikes, gholdengo to block defog, stuff with knock for boots, probably your own spinner or something....
Toxapex @ Mental Herb
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Infestation
- Recover
- Haze
Pex is actually pretty good which is insane considering how many nerfs it got. This is the set ive been using the most because you beat annihilape(have only seen sub very few times) and then you also proceed to wall like 4/6 pokémon from standard offense. Infestation is pretty decent with rocks up and everything having 8 PP recovery, tera steel for the stupid ostrich
Covert cloak is also great for stalling garg and obviously just black sludge if you wanna deal with chi-yu better instead
Quaquaval @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: depends
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Step
- Close Combat
- Ice Spinner
- Taunt
imo the best 4 moves+item for quaquaval. A lot of curse restalk dondozo atm and instead of being useless against it you actually beat it, you wanna time taunt well though because of the PP from close combat. Can also beat pex if you can knock it with someone(or just manage to get a moxie boost).The synergy of the moves is really strong and this thing becomes a prick late game
Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Aura Sphere
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic Terrain
Hawlucha @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Fling
this one actually sucked ass but basically the idea was that i wanted to use lucha HO but didnt wanna waste a slot with one of the shitty terrain mons of this tier(havent tried arboliva enough yet though maybe it could be cool with lucha), you're basically meant to do as much damage as possible with valiant, maybe get a bait kill on gholdengo, then put terrain and sweep with lucha. Fling is just in case it doesn't work but it doesnt actually do damage. Went with psychic terrain to stop priority for the other mons too. pretty ungood but maybe at a different time
Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Quiver Dance
- Morning Sun
common set but this thing is so broken vs no garg or croc
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Not sure if this is any good but I've been meaning to ask about this set for some days now.
Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 116 HP / 80 Atk / 176 SpA / 136 Spe
Naive Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Dragon Darts
- U-turn
This set spawned from me struggling to address Annihilape and Dragonite on a balance team, so I figured if I could burn them before they could threaten me, I would be in good shape. Pult threatens big damage on both of these Mons with Hex and Darts and forces Chesto Ape to rest, meaning that it won't be able to beat me without crippling itself long-term. Once Pult's done its job, I can (in theory) reliably check Ape and Nite with my own physical walls (Dondozo) and/or acquire enough chip for my attackers (Chi-Yu, Iron Hands) to blow it out.
I'm not sure if this set's any good - hell I don't even know if it works on balance or not, but it's something I came up with and wanted to share witht he masses regardless. Anything I should be doing differently?
Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 116 HP / 80 Atk / 176 SpA / 136 Spe
Naive Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Dragon Darts
- U-turn
This set spawned from me struggling to address Annihilape and Dragonite on a balance team, so I figured if I could burn them before they could threaten me, I would be in good shape. Pult threatens big damage on both of these Mons with Hex and Darts and forces Chesto Ape to rest, meaning that it won't be able to beat me without crippling itself long-term. Once Pult's done its job, I can (in theory) reliably check Ape and Nite with my own physical walls (Dondozo) and/or acquire enough chip for my attackers (Chi-Yu, Iron Hands) to blow it out.
I'm not sure if this set's any good - hell I don't even know if it works on balance or not, but it's something I came up with and wanted to share witht he masses regardless. Anything I should be doing differently?
Be there or be square at the next major PPV at Double or Nothing!! Finch Mcmahon is putting his council member spot on the line against the People's Champion, Mudkip!! Who will win?? Will Mudkip be able to surpass the McMahon regime that has long corrupted smogon!? Find outthis Tuesday Afternoon as we commentate it LIVE on starting at 5pm
could possibly change day or time btw (short explanation: extended family is stupid)
Not sure if this is any good but I've been meaning to ask about this set for some days now.
Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 116 HP / 80 Atk / 176 SpA / 136 Spe
Naive Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Dragon Darts
- U-turn
This set spawned from me struggling to address Annihilape and Dragonite on a balance team, so I figured if I could burn them before they could threaten me, I would be in good shape. Pult threatens big damage on both of these Mons with Hex and Darts and forces Chesto Ape to rest, meaning that it won't be able to beat me without crippling itself long-term. Once Pult's done its job, I can (in theory) reliably check Ape and Nite with my own physical walls (Dondozo) and/or acquire enough chip for my attackers (Chi-Yu, Iron Hands) to blow it out.
I'm not sure if this set's any good - hell I don't even know if it works on balance or not, but it's something I came up with and wanted to share witht he masses regardless. Anything I should be doing differently?
This set works extremely well, the EVs are just a bit off but should like this: (Note: You need the full positive speed of Dragapult)
Dragapult @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Dragon Darts
- U-turn
Please just use Draco Meteor on your *bulky* hex wisp Dragapult.This set works extremely well, the EVs are just a bit off but should like this: (Note: You need the full positive speed of Dragapult)
Dragapult @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Dragon Darts
- U-turn
what, so you can lose to set up volcarona? no way.
Let’s not spend our holidays being rude to each other on Smogon maybe
For the sake of UU, the bird has to go.
We're having to use janky imprison sets to check it down here in UU. Why the hell this thing dropped to UU is beyond me.
it dropped to uu because it wasn't used enough to stay in ou
Mudkipnerd entering his battle against Finch circa Dec 27th 2022.
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Espratha is also almost guaranteed to rise to OU in six days. It's become a premiere OU sweeper, it only dropped cuz it was truly discovered in like the last four days before stats.
I feel like I'd match up worse into Dragonite with Draco as opposed to with Darts. Darts actually breaks Multiscale so I don't have to accost myself to damage it.
Doubtful this is a hot take, but Great Tusk feels like it may be the most centralizing Pokemon in the metagame. In a lot of the matches I've play, it feels like the opponent specifically uses their Tera as a countermeasure to this Pokemon specifically, whether its turning Earthquake weakness into either an immunity or a neutrality depending on the Pokemon that its going up against or turning into a Ghost type to get a crucial immunity to its rapid spin. It makes sense, as its ability to compress Knock Off, Rapid Spin, and Stealth Rock in one slot makes it a great utility Pokemon and one that can be difficult to play around due to its high Attack and Defense, Great Tusk dittos really aren't uncommon for this reason, w/ each trying to spin away the other's hazards, exchanging knocks, etc. and its def not a match-up I'm exactly comfortable w/ playing either due to the potential risk & consequences of losing my own Great Tusk. I don't really like the Corv vs Tusk match-up either since Tusk is faster and quite strong & bulky itself, so it can feel like Corv will get overwheliming in this MU (+having Leftovers Knocked Off is quite bad for Corv).
I really do think it’s ironic that, of all Pokémon, a variant of Donphan ended up being one of the best Pokémon in OU. Turns out those kids at the bottom of the XY ladder were playing in 2023 while the rest of us were playing in 2013.
The funniest part to me is thinking of the Ice Spinner coverage option as the Great-Answer to XY Donphan's Ice Shard.
Sorry to sound like a hipster, but I was using Donphan on my shitty Sand team in BW2 before it was cool.
But for real, Great Tusk is amazing. Headlong Rush being a Ground-type Close Combat makes it a superb STAB option, and Tusk is bulky enough that -1 Def doesn't leave it as vulnerable as you'd think. I've actually swept with it a couple times thanks to the Speed boost provided by Rapid Spin.
While not entirely comparable to our lord and savior Lando-T, Tusk is similar in being a versatile offensive threat that provides a lot of utility to any team it's on.
But for real, Great Tusk is amazing. Headlong Rush being a Ground-type Close Combat makes it a superb STAB option, and Tusk is bulky enough that -1 Def doesn't leave it as vulnerable as you'd think. I've actually swept with it a couple times thanks to the Speed boost provided by Rapid Spin.
While not entirely comparable to our lord and savior Lando-T, Tusk is similar in being a versatile offensive threat that provides a lot of utility to any team it's on.
One has to wonder whether Great Tusk will compete for team space with Lando-T when Home comes out. The specific things it does are mostly different, but it does have the same “physically bulky Ground-type with lots of role compression” vibe. Could this possibly be the gen where Lando-T falls to under 50% usage? Stay tuned!
I mean
beetween the 2? both have rocks and power, tusk has better offensive typing, better defense and HP, better coverage, while lando has more base attack a better ability, a ground inmunity, better spedef and a better Choice Scarf set, and swords dance but eh
my prediction is that lando will regain its spot as a balance/bulky offense mon, even stall if Gliscor does not come back, but tusk will prevail in Offense, Hyper Offense, Sun and also having a place in Bulky Offense
beetween the 2? both have rocks and power, tusk has better offensive typing, better defense and HP, better coverage, while lando has more base attack a better ability, a ground inmunity, better spedef and a better Choice Scarf set, and swords dance but eh
my prediction is that lando will regain its spot as a balance/bulky offense mon, even stall if Gliscor does not come back, but tusk will prevail in Offense, Hyper Offense, Sun and also having a place in Bulky Offense
Lando-T's Ground immunity is super important, as its provides an immunity to Spikes. When combined with neutrality to Stealth Rock, it can afford to run Leftovers over Boots for longevity.
Plus Lando gets Nasty Plot this Gen and a new signature move that's basically Ground-type Scald. I wouldn't be surprised if Special Attacking sets popped up, possibly teamed up with Tusk anyway.
Plus Lando gets Nasty Plot this Gen and a new signature move that's basically Ground-type Scald. I wouldn't be surprised if Special Attacking sets popped up, possibly teamed up with Tusk anyway.
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