Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[alephgalactus]

I have been playing this meta for weeks on end and i still cannot find an actual consistent way to beat chien pao, barring running tera fairy dondozo.
How are you all dealing with this thing??? i dont get it. none of my offenses can switch into it and all my balances have to use dondozo to check it reliably which is a bit absurd.
My dondozo has also just been crit by crunch on multiple occasions causing me to instantly lose the game

I just switch in either Gholdengo or Ting-Lu depending on what I’m predicting it to click and then pray that I guessed right and that it’s Choiced so it locks itself into something my switch-in resists. No mon consistently beats Chien-Pao, you’re required to either outplay it or get lucky. Normally this would be grounds for a trip to Quickban City, but we’ve got like ten other things to deal with too.

My other main counterplay to Chien-Pao, which is the only thing I find works 100% of the time, is closing Showdown and doing something else until OU sorts itself out because I genuinely don’t think the meta in its current state is worth playing unless you’re trying for reqs.

 

[Eeveeto]

I have been playing this meta for weeks on end and i still cannot find an actual consistent way to beat chien pao, barring running tera fairy dondozo.
How are you all dealing with this thing??? i dont get it. none of my offenses can switch into it and all my balances have to use dondozo to check it reliably which is a bit absurd.
My dondozo has also just been crit by crunch on multiple occasions causing me to instantly lose the game

Paldean Tauros, both Fire and Water beat it almost always. Pdef Tinkaton is solid, Sdef one is shaky but sometimes works too. Iron Hand looks overrated Mon for me, but one thing it does well is checking Chien Pao. Lokix and Slither Wing can switch into Dark STAB or RK with First Impression. Pdef Volcarona works vs Boots version, Torkoal even better.
If we enter Terastalization territory, both Wo Chien and the more common Garganacl work if they have the Fairy typing + Body Press.

There are more options, but in the end it depends a lot in how the match goes and when Chien Pao appears. Terastalization makes it a guessing game for both sides.

 

[Justinian]

I have been playing this meta for weeks on end and i still cannot find an actual consistent way to beat chien pao, barring running tera fairy dondozo.
How are you all dealing with this thing??? i dont get it. none of my offenses can switch into it and all my balances have to use dondozo to check it reliably which is a bit absurd.
My dondozo has also just been crit by crunch on multiple occasions causing me to instantly lose the game

Early on I would try things like Pex or pdef helmet Corv but even then, Pex isn't that great in this meta and Corv can just get flinched by crash (+ is boned if they pop tera on it either way), so now I feel like the best option is to just try to out-offense it. Stuff like dnite, Breloom, scarf Chi-Yu, Quaquaval situationally, and booster Valiant can all threaten it out and force it to wear itself down on hazards (and if it's boots instead of a boosting item, it gets a wayyyy easier to handle with standard defensive options like Corv or Dondozo, so it won't take hazard chip but you can actually switch into its attacks).

Besides that, well-timed Tera usage can also be good. I like Tera water on Tusker for example, esp since that's a great defensive type for it outside that MU anyway. Tera usage is always going to make you worry about whether you could save it for a better use in the future, but all in all, not losing to the leopard on the spot is a pretty solid excuse to pop it.

There are also a couple of niche defensive mons that do decently vs it, like bulky Azu or Tauros forms that some ppl are using, and they also match up decently into the other ruin mons, but they're also pretty hard to fit on a lot of teams, so they're just that, niche.

tldr there's really no consistent way to counter it, you kind of just have to keep your options open in the builder and play it by ear in-game as best you can, like a lot of superthreats this gen

 

[Novax]

I have been playing this meta for weeks on end and i still cannot find an actual consistent way to beat chien pao, barring running tera fairy dondozo.
How are you all dealing with this thing??? i dont get it. none of my offenses can switch into it and all my balances have to use dondozo to check it reliably which is a bit absurd.
My dondozo has also just been crit by crunch on multiple occasions causing me to instantly lose the game

as long as it is not choice banded , torkoal can somewhat switch into its dark type moves . other than that , torkoal can pretty much take 5-6 sacred sword and ice spinners . Physically defensive dondonzo can switch in pretty well as long as it is not tera dark cb . scarf chi-yu can potentially work as a surprise factor

 

[nomaiD]

all of these answers suck lol

Chien Pao is a hard one to fully counter, if there isn't a pokémon that can overpower him, you can't make one up.

 

[Eeveeto]

all of these answers suck lol

My brother in Mewsias, I literally got reqs for the Suspect with a Water Tauros (there were also Volcarona and Slither Wing in the same team,but 90% of Chien Paos just collapsed vs Tauros, making the moths not a factor vs him) , making 38-6 record. Between the Mons I told you and the ones Justinian did, you have enough options. There are Mons that you can't just 100% counter at all moments in the match, so you will have to predict and outplay your opponent. Chien Pao isn't even the hardest to check Mon, Annihilape, Chi-Yu, Iron Valiant and even Dragapult, all need far more dedicated answers in the builder than the ice cat.

 

[Finchinator]

all of these answers suck lol

People are trying to help you; if you don’t agree, simply don’t respond or respond constructively rather than being rude.

Dondozo, Tauros-Fire, Tauros-Water, Torkoal, Arcanine, and Azumarill help with it defensively for the most part. Nothing is particularly perfect because Tera can either make it much stronger or much harder to take out. Half-measures such as Kingambit vs no Fighting move or using your own Tera to predict around it with Great Tusk or Gholdengo can work as well, but obviously are even less reliable.

This is one of the numerous Pokémon that are likely to be managed more comfortably with any potential suspect action coming from the Tera test.

 

[Local Dog]

Non LO/CB, unboosted, 252+ Att Scizor's Bullet Punch already has a 12.5% to OHKO Pao. When you add LO or Band or an attack boost, it alhwys OHKOs. Plus it can work as a great defogger

 

[Athyestic]

I have been playing this meta for weeks on end and i still cannot find an actual consistent way to beat chien pao, barring running tera fairy dondozo.
How are you all dealing with this thing??? i dont get it. none of my offenses can switch into it and all my balances have to use dondozo to check it reliably which is a bit absurd.
My dondozo has also just been crit by crunch on multiple occasions causing me to instantly lose the game

See, personally I keep a couple shrines in my room to pray to whenever I play SV OU. One to Chi-Yu, one to Chien-Pao, one to Garganacl, one to Gholdengo, and I might need a couple more as the metagame develops. Whenever I see any one of these four on preview, I quickly sacrifice something to the corresponding shrines and then go into the match. It's worked alright, though it's quite expensive to maintain.

Seriously though in general Chien-Pao is a massive threat and it abuses Tera very well, oftentimes I'll have a whole ass Yache/Sash Breloom to handle it no matter the set.

 

[1LDK]

Honestly, im glad people are starting to see how horrible Chien-Poo is, i once bad lead against Webs, he set up 1 SD and he 6-0, i couldnt do anything, worst of all, the fact that he can choose beetween ice shard and sucker punch, and both being succesfull, is disgusting in my opinion, not even Dondozo can fully counter it, imagine how powerfull Chien-poo is that, +2 LO Roaring Moon is a joke against Donzo, i hate this mon, and even worst of all is that, lore wise he is born from the hatred of the people that die to his sword, that means the more we hate him, the stronger he gets

 

[Fancy1]

at least you can revenge kill it easily enough, if it’s sucker just use your own priority move so sucker won’t work, if it’s shard pray to the gods you go first

 

[Turtlek]

sucker can be stopped by a prio only if you are faster... you need a prio faster than 405 to avoid being suckered. the only option is quick attack/sucker punch dragapult
yes dnite/fake out exist

 

[Finchinator]

I wish ting lu and dondozo got banned from the draft format.

they are incredibly good defensively and help with many defensive cores that are hard to break.

This thread is for discussion of OU, not draft. They have their own subforum if you would like to discuss draft!

 

[awyp]

all of these answers suck lol

If they suck from your perspective, tell us something that we didn't list above on what checks Chien-Pao. I do believe in my opinion if a team had a large weakness to Chien-Pao, I would dedicate Tauros Paldea (Fire) on a slot and Wisp + Intimidate if it stays in, not much it can do at all to be honest. (Like Eeveeto said)

 

[alephgalactus]

all of these answers suck lol

Try my second option, works every time

 

[nomaiD]

Water Tauros (there were also Volcarona and Slither Wing in the same team,but 90% of Chien Paos just collapsed vs Tauros, making the moths not a factor vs him)

Could you drop the team? It looks really cool.

 

[Hyper-Go-ons]

If they suck from your perspective, tell us something that we didn't list above on what checks Chien-Pao. I do believe in my opinion if a team had a large weakness to Chien-Pao, I would dedicate Tauros Paldea (Fire) on a slot and Wisp + Intimidate if it stays in, not much it can do at all to be honest. (Like Eeveeto said)

All Tauros formes lose to a rare Tera Flying / Psychic Chien-Pao with Tera Blast (or Acrobatics) and Psychic Fangs respectively, it can OHKO them useless if they're defensive.

 

[658Greninja]

All Tauros formes lose to a rare Tera Flying / Psychic Chien-Pao with Tera Blast (or Acrobatics) and Psychic Fangs respectively, it can OHKO them useless if they're defensive.

Pao rarely ever runs Psychic Fangs or Tera Flying. Also most Blaze Breed Tauros have alot of physD investment.

 

[Hyper-Go-ons]

Maybe Pao can run a Lum Berry to get rid of annoying statuses such as Poison, Paralysis and Burn.

 

[Finchinator]

Maybe Pao can run a Lum Berry to get rid of annoying statuses such as Poison, Paralysis and Burn.

Generally it really values boots when not opting for boosting items like LO/CB.

 

[alephgalactus]

Is Life Orb really a viable Pao set? Between hazard damage and LO recoil, it seems like its switch-in opportunities are severely limited. I feel that LO eats into its longevity into a way it can’t really afford (and considering how hazardous the meta is right now, Life Orb in general doesn’t seem viable to me). Chien-Pao does get Recover and can in theory use that to heal off chip damage while the opponent is switching out—a better option than it sounds at first because nearly nothing actually stays in on it—but the downside to that is that Recover Chien-Pao is stupid and bad and you shouldn’t use it.

 

[Athyestic]

but the downside to that is that Recover Chien-Pao is stupid and bad and you shouldn’t use it.

We did have a small discussion on Recover Chien-Pao some 20-30 pages back and the conclusion was that in the chaotic state of SV OU rn it's stupid and bad but when (if lol) the metagame slows down it might see a lot more viability (assuming it doesnt get banned before lol)

 

[alephgalactus]

We did have a small discussion on Recover Chien-Pao some 20-30 pages back and the conclusion was that in the chaotic state of SV OU rn it's stupid and bad but when (if lol) the metagame slows down it might see a lot more viability (assuming it doesnt get banned before lol)

I’m certain that Chien-Pao will be banned, and I have been since the start of the gen. Weavile was problematic enough last gen that a suspect was discussed, and Chien-Pao is effectively Weavile but better in nearly every aspect (faster, stronger, has an actual Fighting move) to the point that Weavile’s in UU now because it was outclassed so thoroughly, and this is a meta without a lot of the defensive staples that made Weavile somewhat manageable. Frankly, I’m surprised it lasted this long, and the fact that it has is a testament to how broken the meta is right now.

 

[658Greninja]

but the downside to that is that Recover Chien-Pao is stupid and bad and you shouldn’t use it.

As Athyestic mentioned earlier, there is some potential with Recover. On LO, it can be used to neglate chip damage from recoil, RH, and hazards. Since it is good at forcing switches, Recover can be a good option to revert the progress made to take it down. In DPP, some players started running Slack Off on Infernape to heal off the chip dmg made from hazards, sand, and Flare Blitz recoil. Against fatter teams this can be a godsend, especially considering playing around Pao is even harder than Infernape was in DPP. Assuming it doesn’t get banned, it might be a niche option once the meta gets slower which seems to be happening rn.

 

[Karxrida]

As Athyestic mentioned earlier, there is some potential with Recover. On LO, it can be used to neglate chip damage from recoil, RH, and hazards. Since it is good at forcing switches, Recover can be a good option to revert the progress made to take it down. In DPP, some players started running Slack Off on Infernape to heal off the chip dmg made from hazards, sand, and Flare Blitz recoil. Against fatter teams this can be a godsend, especially considering playing around Pao is even harder than Infernape was in DPP. Assuming it doesn’t get banned, it might be a niche option once the meta gets slower which seems to be happening rn.

Chien-Pao also more flexible than Infernape with its last moveslot since it just wants STABs + Sacred Sword/priority. I can definitely see Recover being a valid option if it sticks around, especially depending on how the meta develops and how quickly we get HOME to bolster fatter teams.