Resource National Dex Viability Rankings (Pre Tera Ban)

[Kyo]

Lovely VR art by Gravity Monkey
​

Viability Rankings

Welcome to the first edition of the Generation 9 National Dex Viability Rankings! In this thread, we as a community, overlooked by a unique council, will attempt to rank every viable Pokemon in various ranks. Please be encouraged to post your thoughts on the viability of Pokemon in this thread!

Ranks

Pokemon will be ranked in descending order; there is no divide in viability inbetween ranks. There is no differentiation in offensive and defensive Pokemon. Toxapex may be A+ for its defensive utility, while Hydreigon may be A+ for its capabilities as a wallbreaker.

VR Council

The VR Council is made up of respected and active users in National Dex. They will have the final say on where Pokemon get ranked. Here is the current VR Council:

• Kyo
• hidin
• Solaros & Lunaris
• seth
• peap
• sealoo
• Lameflame
• omarsgarciav
• Ineros

S Rank

S
Landorus-Therian

A Rank

A+

Dragonite
Ferrothorn
Iron Crown
Ogerpon-Wellspring
Raging Bolt
Urshifu-RS

A
Garganacl
Gliscor
Heatran
Iron Moth
Iron Valiant
Kyurem
Medicham-Mega
Tapu Koko
Tapu Lele

A-
Archaludon
Barraskewda
Charizard-Mega-Y
Diancie-Mega
Garchomp
Great Tusk
Lopunny-Mega
Pelipper
Samurott-Hisui
Scizor-Mega
Slowking-Galar
Swampert-Mega
Toxapex
Tyranitar-Mega
Volcarona

B Rank

B+
Alomomola
Ogerpon-Cornerstone
Serperior
Tornadus-Therian
Ursaluna
Weavile
Zapdos

B
Clefable
Corviknight
Hawlucha
Kartana
Latios-Mega
Mawile-Mega
Rillaboom
Slowbro
Ting-Lu

B-
Cinderace
Iron Boulder
Iron Treads
Kommo-o
Latias-Mega
Moltres

C Rank

C+
Blissey
Ceruledge
Clodsire
Dondozo
Glimmora
Meowscarada
Primarina
Sinistcha
Tangrowth
Torkoal
Venusaur-Mega
Victini

C
Chansey
Hatterene
Hoopa-Unbound
Iron Hands
Ogerpon
Pecharunt
Rotom-Wash
Skarmory
Skeledirge
Volcanion

C-

Blacephalon
Brambleghast
Celesteela
Charizard-Mega-X
Cresselia
Enamorus
Excadrill
Grimmsnarl
Gyarados-Mega
Hippowdon
Hydreigon
Manaphy
Ribombee
Tapu Bulu
Tapu Fini


Guidelines

There are some guidelines to keep in mind before posting here. We want to foster intelligent discussion, not unfounded arguments. Please keep these things in mind:

• Posts like "I think X Pokemon should be in Y Rank" will be deleted; make sure to back your opinion with facts and an actual analysis of the metagame.
• Adding onto the above, I would simply like to point out that, while usage stats may be used to support your argument, they should not be the basis of your argument. Saying something along the lines of "X Pokemon is not used often, so it should drop" or "X Pokemon is used very often, but it isn't ranked very high, it should rise" are not valid arguments.
• You shouldn't merely state the obvious things either. We know that Galarian Darmanitan has access to a very strong STAB Icicle Crash combined with good coverage options. We are far more interested in knowing what meta trends may favor Galarian Darmanitan.
• Replays are mandatory to support a nomination if a Pokemon is Unranked.
• This is not the place for personal attacks. Not everyone agrees on the viability of Pokemon, and that is no reason to attack them. Any posts that do attack users will be swiftly deleted and met with an infraction.
• This is not the thread to talk about suspect tests. One liners also have no place here. Both will be deleted and may be met with an infraction on repeated offense.

 

[Chilli Dewd]

Bruh, I just commented in natdex that there isnt a vr list yet, and the next message just so happens to be a link of the first ever vr list... um spechless.

 

[sealoo]

Heatran to A+/S-


Heatran is still absurdly strong and with the addition of Tera, it is further bolstered. Grass Tera allows Heatran to invalidate old counterplay such as Gastrodon, Landorus, and other ground types with its combination of Taunt and Magma Storm.

Fire/Steel typing allows Heatran to provide great counterplay vs traditional matchups such as Lele, while the guessing game involving Tera lets it beat mons such Iron Valiant. Tera Grass Heatran also performs a near impossible feat in effectively walling Mega Charizard Y.

Overall, this mon is still dominant and can set Stealth Rocks well, trap and remove mons at will, as well as providing very good defensive utility.

also drop clef from b that mon is terrible

 

[SoBalanced]

Rotom-Wash to A-
​

Rotom-W provides great typing without needing to tera (Tera electric makes for stronger volt switches though + no weaknesses) and a great rain match-up to add to one's team: With will-o, toxic, or even t-wave it can provide status to shut down many potential sweepers making the mistake of trying to set-up on it. It's still a fantastic pivot like last gen, and probably better now because of the current meta's dangerous rain teams.
It should be ranked higher because of its great match-up against many top threats/walls like Torn, Mega Swampert, Landorus, and M-Lop. Pain split and leftovers allow it to stay surprisingly healthy over the course of a game. While the scarf set is pretty mediocre, its role as a non-passive defensive pivot deserves to be better recognized.

also drop clef from b that mon is terrible

agreed

 

[buayagator]

Where is greninja? I know it got major nerf for both protean and battle bond but it should at last be ranked right?

 

[TH1N3 H4MM3R]

why is tapu fini and corv in B-?

 

[ArSd]

why is tapu fini and corv in B-?

Fini is held back by hazards alot and generally outclassed as a bulky water by washom and gastro. Corv is to passive of a defogger to rlly be anything more than decent and most teams would rather use torn as it is faster and has access to utility moves like knock and taunt. Sub Bu sets are also kinda hard to make work now due to the nerf to recovery moves

 

[Kyo]

Serperior from UR to B-/B

Good nomination considering this mon has not really been explored in Gen 9. However, please include some replays with this nomination so we can see how well Serp functions, what team structures you're using it on, and maybe what kinds of tera types are effective.

 

[Kyo]

Where is greninja? I know it got major nerf for both protean and battle bond but it should at last be ranked right?

Given the severe nerfs to both of Gren's abilities, we opted to unrank it for the time being. Battle bond is now near useless except under very specific conditions given that you lose your buffs as soon as you're forced to switch out which is most likely to happen immediately after you manage to get a KO. Given the plethora of other strong water types in the tier, especially ones that take advantage of rain more easily, there isn't much reason to use this mon. On the other hand, protean nerfs now force you to correctly predict the opponent on your first attack upon switching in to take advantage of the STAB bonus. Protean Gren's coverage outside of ice beam is not particularly spammable and has holes in it even when running 4 attacks, so you would need very careful prediction to make this work. With these nerfs, Gren finds itself relying on nothing but base 103 Sp Att which is beyond underwhelming in the current meta and spread even more thin by mixed attacking protean sets

 

[658Greninja]

you know power creep is bad when Clef, Kart, and Kyurem are in the B tiers, and Gliscor is in C.

 

[Zobirisking]

Armarouge to C

​

The first and best moveset I want to talk about is the Weakness Policy Stored Power set.
The goal with this Armarouge is to set up Calm Mind or Iron Defense and get hit by a physical move to activate its Hidden Ability Weak Armor. If it gets hit by one (physical) super effective move and used Iron Defense, Stored Power gets a Base Power of 160 at +2 Special Attack thanks to Weakness Policy, which can be very devastating at the right moment.

+2 0 SpA Armarouge Stored Power (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 475-559 (133 - 156.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 0 SpA Armarouge Stored Power (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 321-378 (44.9 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also, many common threats like Mega Lopunny, Zamazenta, Scizor, Mega Medicam, Cinderace, Kartana, Rillaboom and Buzzwole can't do a lot of damage to him and can be used as set up fodders, even tho Armarouge doesn't like to switch in into most of them.

252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Armarouge: 124-147 (33.1 - 39.3%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Armarouge: 180-212 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Armarouge: 236-278 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

These Replays show Armarouge sweeping:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1772636528-x02etach5636lb73qz3v5peseu1enf0pw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1774389288-7dzcieffns8sy6t678h69aoqgulht94pw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1774397742-wj47ab47uno7mw70u3q9hdhqyam9b2cpw

The second and last set I want to show is the Choise Specs set.
I only used this moveset on my Sun Team. This Armarouge wants to OHKO its opponents with its high Special Attack and powerful moves like Armor Cannon or Psychic. That set isn't as good as the one with Stored Power most of the time, but its roar power can surprise many people.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Armarouge Armor Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 402-474 (56.3 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Armarouge Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Water Annihilape: 294-348 (69.3 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Armarouge Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinderace: 271-321 (90 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Armarouge Armor Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult in Sun: 360-424 (113.5 - 133.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1774219756-oywj2ktdobgwg9hzpsuhjvijtmdn6rmpw

 

[LBN]

Given the severe nerfs to both of Gren's abilities, we opted to unrank it for the time being. Battle bond is now near useless except under very specific conditions given that you lose your buffs as soon as you're forced to switch out which is most likely to happen immediately after you manage to get a KO. Given the plethora of other strong water types in the tier, especially ones that take advantage of rain more easily, there isn't much reason to use this mon. On the other hand, protean nerfs now force you to correctly predict the opponent on your first attack upon switching in to take advantage of the STAB bonus. Protean Gren's coverage outside of ice beam is not particularly spammable and has holes in it even when running 4 attacks, so you would need very careful prediction to make this work. With these nerfs, Gren finds itself relying on nothing but base 103 Sp Att which is beyond underwhelming in the current meta and spread even more thin by mixed attacking protean sets

I think this leads to a perfect transition.

UR -> B-
Ya'll forget about one set. The Scarf Protean gren set remains entirely unchanged from the nerfs, and still serves an acceptable spot within the tier. Being able to constantly threaten to revenge kill Zamazenta from most health ranges w Extrasensory is a rare trait to have among scarfers, and Greninja is one of the best at it. While Tapu Lele can also do this, it doesn't have the ability to pivot out and it's also great at stuffing Torn-T w Ice beam, since they mostly run Tera Grass. Really, I don't think i need to go over what Scarf Greninja does, it remains unchanged and heavily underexplored. Of course, this exploration will likely let people also tap in to other sets, and I think BB Gren is actually not as heavily nerfed as people say, it's still fairly threatening but it's role is more reduced to a mid game breaker, and also it can run HP grass on BB Gren now since Ability patches exist, or atleast the builder says it's legal. It's also a spikes setter Tusk wants no part of, so that's also nice. Good mon, the nerfs aren't that bad.
I also actually have replays to back this up

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldex-669127
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1774613210

Also i have an issue with the BB part discussing it's role as a water. Here's the thing, yes Greninja is outclassed by waters in rain. But most of these waters also only fit in rain. Outside of rain, it's only really got one pokemon it competes against, Urshifu Rapid. Now, Urshifu is better im not gonna lie about that, but Greninja has has things like a speed stat faster than Torn at base to fire off with. Mega Gyarados is also a thing but that's an HO mainstay and doesn't tend to go on the same type of teams. (Mega gyara should also be higher but i'll get to that another time). Generally, it's speed sets it apart high enough, aswell as it's new access to all the hidden powers to smack some of it's checks like Ferrothorn and Gastrodon if it so desires.
I have other noms to make but i don't have the replays for em yet, but i wanted to do Greninja rn while i had the chance

 

[adem]

you know power creep is bad when Clef, Kart, and Kyurem are in the B tiers, and Gliscor is in C.

i hate that i have to do this every say but like… idk maybe there are other things affecting this than creep??? like idk, meta changes, mechanic changes, overall playstyle changes

clef lost half of its recovery move pp, and for a mon whos bulk is average and is reliant on its type and ability to be a good defensive mon, that fucking sucks.

im ngl i think kart is a bit underrated, but even then, with torn being the best mon in the tier, a bunch of new revenge killers, stuff like physdef ferro being the standard nowadays, balances which kart smashed struggling, fats/stalls being more unaware reliant rather than face-tank reliant due to recover etc etc, maybe its not power creep and its the fact that we are in a early meta that is very different to what it was last gen

gliscor also hurt by the recovery nerf since its largely carried by its ability, and its overall bulk is just above average, defog sets losing to common rockers (leech whip ferro, spinner tusk, etc) and again with the balance nerf sd sets are much harder to pull off successfully, and being forced into roosts draining twice as fast they used to go before by stuff like heatran and lop maybe means it isnt the never-dying fat mon it once was.

kyurems roost nerf + the tier being extremely hazard centric fucking sucks for it, making non boots sets very hard to consistently get off. again, balance nerf sucks for it since its not the fastest mon in the world and feeds on how popular balance is, especially with the new fast mons (zama pult) rking it.

also, and this applies to it, maybe considering this is the first vr in the tier with a fuck ton of viable mons, and made right after a huge 3 mon ban that greatly affected the meta, and the fact that it doesnt get as much high level exposure as more official tiers so develops are slow. also consider the fact that the vr council is made out of humans, and even though they try to be as objective as they can they simply cant, and also the fact that people can make mistakes / make less informed choices (no hate on the council, its just human nature and i did it as well when i was council), and as such there are numerous positions that i also disagree with and think isnt right, the vr is a guide it isnt a set in stone ranking. i cant deny that there is some minor power creep, although i do think its very minimal in actual practice, and all these changes is moreso just meta changes and mon bloat. i hate that every time people see mons being ranked low / low in usage in nd everyone immediately jumps to power creep without actually playing the tier. sorry if this rant was a little long, but i feel this is getting far too common and paints the tier in a bad light.

(i did not plan to make this my first post in the vr thread :sob: but instead a post talking abt some of the weird rankings but alas)

 

[KrookKing]

Floatzel in rain wildin that much for B+ huh? Idk I don't use weather, someone who has can explain please? Would also guess it's probably one of the best abuser of Double Stab Tera?

 

[Nish the Great]

Floatzel in rain wildin that much for B+ huh? Idk I don't use weather, someone who has can explain please? Would also guess it's probably one of the best abuser of Double Stab Tera?

floatzel is the only swift swimmer who can use tera water wave crash, which is absolutely ludicrous and 2hkos everything except physdef pex, bro, and ferro

 

[Patar136]

I say Kingdra should go from C to B+, right alongside Floatzel. Or at the very least, B ranking.

Kingdra abuses Tera just as much as Floatzel can, and has the great ability to hit on the special side with both water AND Dragon STAB, usually Draco Meteor but sometimes Dragon Pulse. Kingdra also has a better typing than Floatzel and has some bulk to itself, unlike Floatzel who has very little. Floatzel also struggles against both Water Absorb Clodsire and Dondozo far more than Kingdra does, who can break them down far more easily.

Kingdra can even break past Ferrothorn and special walls with chip damage and Stealth Rock, especially with Tera to boost its water attacks. So C rank is too low imo.

 

[TBE]

What I’m about to say is going to sound crazy… I nominate Machamp to C rank! It’s never been a popular pick for NDOU so why do I think it can hang with incredible mons like gliscor, cinderace, treads, baxcalibur, etc.. First let me start off by answering the question, “why now?” (Probably everyone). I think the reason Machamp should be nominated for C rank in Gen9NDOU is because of 2 reasons. First off is the obvious reason, tera helps it become a solid revenge killer with tera steel bullet punch and gives it incredible wall breaking power with guts tera fighting to unleash a terrifying close combat that 2hkos every relevant switch in. Now without tera it simply lacks the wall breaking potential and can’t fire off strong bullet punches to be revenge kill faster mons like koko, pult, torn etc. Obviously requires chip otherwise I would nominate it much higher on VR but the fact tera steel allows it to take hurricanes, gleams, dracos exceptionally well makes it a very good tera pick to combat some of the biggest threats in the tier. It also is a great bait for many who don’t expect tera steel or bullet punch.

Reason number 2: Machamp is anti-meta and has very solid reasoning to use it over the other fighting types in the tier. Let’s compare machamp to some of its biggest competition, Zama-Hero has the advantage in speed but Champ beats it in sheer power and priority. I’m a tier with many scarfers and really fast and frail Pokémon that are easily chipped, priority is a fantastic way to revenge kill or simply threaten your opponent which may stop them from setting up or avoid switching in their breakers to avoid chip damage. I said earlier, nothing can wall this mon given the right set and it’s often not in your best interest to gamble and risk taking a lot of damage on your corv or getting knocked on torn. Zama-C only beats it in mobility, move coverage is lack luster along with the other nit picks I mentioned I think machamp can be justified over this mon. Next we have tusk who is probably the best fighting type in the tier because of its great hazard control + offensive presence in the meta. Its the best spinner in the tier because it’s the only one who can effectively beat Gholdengo and it’s access to knock makes it annoying to switch into. The one thing it does lack however, is priority. Don’t underestimate priority, it is one of the biggest reasons for me making this post. Another reason you may choose to pick champ over tusk is stacking ground types is never ideal because ice is a fairly common offensive typing you generally want to try to avoid being really weak to it. I’m not making the case for champ being better but there’s plenty of justification to use champ over all of these fighting types. Last fighting type I’ll mention is Iron hands!!! Now on paper it looks like it’s just an upgraded champ or hariyama but theres two main things to point out and one subtle difference. The subtle difference is Machamp is actually slightly stronger with guts than booster energy Iron Hands AND it’s faster. You’re probably thinking that they’re both slow but base 55 speed is a very solid speed tier because you’re able to still run adamant max attack with enough speed to outspeed other adamant base 50s like gambit, mega mawhile, azu, iron hands, along with corv and skele and a couple of off brand sets from popular mons like slow buzz, Tran etc. Another cool thing about champ is it has a niche as a status absorber Being able to possess the wall breaking and revenge killing capability which is amplified by tera makes this mon a viable candidate for this tiers VR in my eyes. I hope you all see the same and try Champ out. I’m gonna finish off by leaving some calcs and replays for reference.

252+ Atk Guts Machamp Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 225-265 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 178-211 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Guts Tera Fighting Machamp Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 282-334 (55.9 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Guts Tera Steel Machamp Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 136-162 (42.9 - 51.1%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Tera Steel Machamp: 152-179 (45.9 - 54%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after burn damage
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ghost Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Tera Steel Machamp: 250-296 (75.5 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage


Machamp @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch
- Bulk Up


Machamp @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1775060021-fa2c3fktzld6b1cxfwprihxvrse58h4pw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1774965995-bel4qrox95wqk9aj24ssgtjd11eoscqpw

 

[poop3]

im ngl i think kart is a bit underrated, but even then, with torn being the best mon in the tier, a bunch of new revenge killers, stuff like physdef ferro being the standard nowadays, balances which kart smashed struggling, fats/stalls being more unaware reliant rather than face-tank reliant due to recover etc etc, maybe its not power creep and its the fact that we are in a early meta that is very different to what it was last gen

Kartana will be a lot better once/if it learns Tera Blast.

STABmons banned it due to it gaining access to Power Whip and Sunsteel Stike.
Tera Grass Leaf Blade > non-tera Power Whip.
Smart Strike is still weaker after the tera boost than Sunsteel Strike.
But an 80 BP Steel Tera Blast is stronger than non-tera Sunsteel Strike.

Kartana is a unique case. Z-Moves and Tera are not enough to patch its lack of a strong Steel-type attack, but it has a great offensive profile for Dynamax.

gliscor also hurt by the recovery nerf since its largely carried by its ability, and its overall bulk is just above average, defog sets losing to common rockers (leech whip ferro, spinner tusk, etc) and again with the balance nerf sd sets are much harder to pull off successfully, and being forced into roosts draining twice as fast they used to go before by stuff like heatran and lop maybe means it isnt the never-dying fat mon it once was.

Gliscor has a niche as the only defensive Ground that can reliably check most ID/BP Zamazenta sets. Lando-T and Great Tusk are quickly overwhelmed as their abilities add nothing, and Hippowdon needs to whirlwind immediately. Gliscor can generally handle Zama at +5 or +6 Defense and can chip it down.

kyurems roost nerf + the tier being extremely hazard centric fucking sucks for it, making non boots sets very hard to consistently get off. again, balance nerf sucks for it since its not the fastest mon in the world and feeds on how popular balance is, especially with the new fast mons (zama pult) rking it.

Kyurem can fix the speed issue with a Loaded Dice set running Scale Shot. As we saw with KB, Loaded Dice does more consistent damage with multi-hit moves than LO. Since Kyurem is so bulky it's a threatening Pokemon to offense once it's at +1 Speed or higher. Early in the meta, after the KB ban, I ran something like:

Kyurem @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Scale Shot
- Icicle Spear
- Freeze-Dry
- Roost/Dragon Dance

Freeze Dry is for Quagsire, and Steel tera is to wall Mega Scizor, Blissey, Chansey while also resisting rocks. With Roost one can PP stall, with Dragon Dance one can act as a bulky sweeper.

 

[Chilli Dewd]

What I’m about to say is going to sound crazy… I nominate Machamp to C rank! It’s never been a popular pick for NDOU so why do I think it can hang with incredible mons like gliscor, cinderace, treads, baxcalibur, etc.. First let me start off by answering the question, “why now?” (Probably everyone). I think the reason Machamp should be nominated for C rank in Gen9NDOU is because of 2 reasons. First off is the obvious reason, tera helps it become a solid revenge killer with tera steel bullet punch and gives it incredible wall breaking power with guts tera fighting to unleash a terrifying close combat that 2hkos every relevant switch in. Now without tera it simply lacks the wall breaking potential and can’t fire off strong bullet punches to be revenge kill faster mons like koko, pult, torn etc. Obviously requires chip otherwise I would nominate it much higher on VR but the fact tera steel allows it to take hurricanes, gleams, dracos exceptionally well makes it a very good tera pick to combat some of the biggest threats in the tier. It also is a great bait for many who don’t expect tera steel or bullet punch.

Reason number 2: Machamp is anti-meta and has very solid reasoning to use it over the other fighting types in the tier. Let’s compare machamp to some of its biggest competition, Zama-Hero has the advantage in speed but Champ beats it in sheer power and priority. I’m a tier with many scarfers and really fast and frail Pokémon that are easily chipped, priority is a fantastic way to revenge kill or simply threaten your opponent which may stop them from setting up or avoid switching in their breakers to avoid chip damage. I said earlier, nothing can wall this mon given the right set and it’s often not in your best interest to gamble and risk taking a lot of damage on your corv or getting knocked on torn. Zama-C only beats it in mobility, move coverage is lack luster along with the other nit picks I mentioned I think machamp can be justified over this mon. Next we have tusk who is probably the best fighting type in the tier because of its great hazard control + offensive presence in the meta. Its the best spinner in the tier because it’s the only one who can effectively beat Gholdengo and it’s access to knock makes it annoying to switch into. The one thing it does lack however, is priority. Don’t underestimate priority, it is one of the biggest reasons for me making this post. Another reason you may choose to pick champ over tusk is stacking ground types is never ideal because ice is a fairly common offensive typing you generally want to try to avoid being really weak to it. I’m not making the case for champ being better but there’s plenty of justification to use champ over all of these fighting types. Last fighting type I’ll mention is Iron hands!!! Now on paper it looks like it’s just an upgraded champ or hariyama but theres two main things to point out and one subtle difference. The subtle difference is Machamp is actually slightly stronger with guts than booster energy Iron Hands AND it’s faster. You’re probably thinking that they’re both slow but base 55 speed is a very solid speed tier because you’re able to still run adamant max attack with enough speed to outspeed other adamant base 50s like gambit, mega mawhile, azu, iron hands, along with corv and skele and a couple of off brand sets from popular mons like slow buzz, Tran etc. Another cool thing about champ is it has a niche as a status absorber Being able to possess the wall breaking and revenge killing capability which is amplified by tera makes this mon a viable candidate for this tiers VR in my eyes. I hope you all see the same and try Champ out. I’m gonna finish off by leaving some calcs and replays for reference.

252+ Atk Guts Machamp Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 225-265 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 178-211 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Guts Tera Fighting Machamp Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 282-334 (55.9 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Guts Tera Steel Machamp Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 136-162 (42.9 - 51.1%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Tera Steel Machamp: 152-179 (45.9 - 54%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after burn damage
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ghost Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Tera Steel Machamp: 250-296 (75.5 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage


Machamp @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch
- Bulk Up


Machamp @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1775060021-fa2c3fktzld6b1cxfwprihxvrse58h4pw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1774965995-bel4qrox95wqk9aj24ssgtjd11eoscqpw

This sounds cool and all, and I like when previously unviable mons become explored(Hopefully Infernape will someday...) But my big question to you my friend is... what does Machamp do that Conkeldurr doesn't?

 

[TBE]

This sounds cool and all, and I like when previously unviable mons become explored(Hopefully Infernape will someday...) But my big question to you my friend is... what does Machamp do that Conkeldurr doesn't?

Hey good question, the biggest reason you’d use Machamp over Conq is the speed tier. Base 50 is an important benchmark for these guys. Machamp can run adamant and have 40 leftover evs that can be invested in bulk while still outspeeding adamant base 50s. This outspeeds a number of huge threats like corv, azu, mega mawhile, iron hands, gambit etc. This allows Machamp to get more attacks off and ultimately take less damage. They’re very similar in terms of stats, ig the big advantage conq has is Mach punch BUT in a sense bullet punch is better because it hits pult,torn, koko for neutral which can be handy for cleaning/revenge killing.

 

[Aera]

I say Kingdra should go from C to B+, right alongside Floatzel. Or at the very least, B ranking.

Kingdra abuses Tera just as much as Floatzel can, and has the great ability to hit on the special side with both water AND Dragon STAB, usually Draco Meteor but sometimes Dragon Pulse. Kingdra also has a better typing than Floatzel and has some bulk to itself, unlike Floatzel who has very little. Floatzel also struggles against both Water Absorb Clodsire and Dondozo far more than Kingdra does, who can break them down far more easily.

Kingdra can even break past Ferrothorn and special walls with chip damage and Stealth Rock, especially with Tera to boost its water attacks. So C rank is too low imo.

Kingdra isn't nearly as slappable on a rain team as Floatzel is and while it does have a better matchup against Dondozo it's really not much better against Clodsire either. Floatzel is also stronger and much faster and not having to rely on 80% accuracy can also be great. Of course Kingdra isn't completely outclassed by Floatzel but we're still talking about a Pokémon who only fits on one specific teamstyle where it has competition from 3 other water types, and usually those others are a better choice. Therefore C rank is in my opinion warranted.

 

[jawsome274]

Is Venu legitimately rankable without Torkoal?

 

[Nish the Great]

Is Venu legitimately rankable without Torkoal?

I think this might be an oversight because I have legitimately never seen a venusaur without torkoal

 

[Jho]

I think this might be an oversight because I have legitimately never seen a venusaur without torkoal

We briefly discussed adding torkoal to C alongside venusaur despite it being voted into UR as staple weather setters should be listed with their staple abusers(such as peli and mpert being ranked together).

However I believe that torkoal isn't the staple sun setter, Mega Zard Y is, and since it's already ranked we didn't ultimately feel the need to artificially add torkoal.

 

[hidin]

have a big draft with mons i want to nom but ill just post these 4

B+ -> A- / A
Such an excellent Pokemon; nothing can safely counter this bar Dragonite and Tera Grass Heatran, and exerts so much pressure to slow teams. Enabling other powerful threats such as Great Tusk and Victini is a very good plus as well, and can easily synergize with Pokemon like Tyranitar, Tapu Lele, and the aforementioned Great Tusk. Overall a really strong Pokemon right now, to be honest.

Sets

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Weather Ball / Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Scorching Sands / Focus Blast
- Roost

A+ -> S-
Easily the best candidate for S- ranking, Great Tusk is so versatile and is easy to stick on any teamstyle, and will always do its job extremely well, rather it be a Stealth Rocker, a Rapid Spinner, or even a sponge with Assault Vest or Physically Defensive. I've seen some sets even use Bulk Up and Choice Band as well, which seem to be nice as well. It also can Tera Water to somewhat counter Rain, Tera Steel to resist SE moves from Tapu Lele, Iron Valiant, Tornadus-T, and resist moves like Gholdengo's Make It Rain and Specs Dragapult's Draco Meteor.

Sets

Great Tusk @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water / Steel / Poison
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Headlong Rush / Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin / Stealth Rock
- Knock Off / Ice Spinner

Great Tusk @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground / Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off / Ice Spinner

Great Tusk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water / Steel
EVs: 120 HP / 84 Atk / 72 SpD / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Headlong Rush / Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off / Ice Spinner

B+ -> A-
Clodsire does an excellent job at walling Pokemon like Iron Valiant, Gholdengo, Volcarona, Tapu Koko, and a myriad of other Pokemon due to its stupendous special bulk combined with Water Absorb and Unaware, one ability giving it a stupendous Water immunity, and the other preventing anything from turning Clodsire into fodder for set up. It also posses general utility in Toxic, Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes, making it a nice and easy slot on any BO that needs a special wall. Tera Dark is for dealing with Espathra, Tera Steel is for your Tapu Lele MU, and Tera Water is for Unaware and is for Volcarona and Manaphy, while providing good old Water resistance.

Sets

Clodsire @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dark / Steel / Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Recover

B+ -> A- / A
Weavile is back at it again; Pursuit and Knock Off combined with a stupendous STAB combo in Dark and Ice lets it shine insanely well on BO and Offense, and the fact that Chien-Pao recently got banned supports it immensely. Choice Band is as good as last gen, and Swords Dance is good as well. Tera Dark and Ice both work to power up your already very powerful STAB moves.