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that isnt a sanctimonious post there are no morals involved its just sayin hey if you dont carry a gun youre defenseless against a loser with a gun and there are a lot of losers with guns so this is a generally unadvisable idea

it also isnt disrespectful of anyone who died any more than saying "trying to pet a tiger is a really bad idea" is disrespectful to people who previously died from trying to pet a tiger

anyway i was gonna put my own thoughts on this here but i realized that they probably are too extreme for this forum. censored by mods again alas
 
So um...hi.

I'm posting here mainly with regards to a few things about my own gender identity. I already currently identify as bi and on the ace spectrum, for the record, so there's that. I'm having trouble articulating what I want to say here, so bear with me here.

But I've been questioning my gender identity a lot over the past several months. At some points I wonder if I'm just lying to myself and that I'm not really genderqueer in any way but the thoughts have continually come up and never stopped, and every time I look stuff up on the Internet about possible "signs" that I might be trans or genderfluid or anything among those lines they just end up making me feel more and more conflicted.

For the record, I'm AMAB and I have conformed to identifying as a man for most of my life. I don't hate being male, and I don't feel that I've had any explicit showing of gender dysphoria, but at the same time in recent times I've also...really frequently thought of the idea that I might be at least some form of transfemme. Maybe genderfluid, maybe full on trans girl, maybe nonbinary with a femme lean...I don't know.

But it's really not easy to come to a conclusion. It's a constant loop of self-doubt and so forth. Every time I think I might be a girl I end up doubting myself in some way or another. Like is this just a weird fantasy that I want to be and I'm not actually trans? Am I "good enough" to really be a trans girl? Am I faking being trans? And so forth.

I've also thought of the idea that I might be genderfluid in some form, though that said...that's to a lesser extent than I have entertained the thought of outright being a girl. I have mostly thought that because I don't really hate being a man and have been okay with it...at least I believe I have.

And if I do come to the conclusion that I'm trans (girl)...it honestly scares me. I have a nagging fear that if I stay "closeted" and only present as a trans girl online here and around my online friend groups and not IRL that it would make me inherently less "trans" than other trans people. Like at some point in the scenario that I do come to the conclusion that I am in fact a girl, I might be able to muster the courage to go all the way with it and transition IRL, like growing out my hair (which would take months for me to get to a point where I'd have long hair), getting into feminine ways of presenting myself, and possibly HRT but for now there's no way I'd be able to do all that. Maybe in several years from now when my life circumstances change. I don't really know how to explore that IRL yet. I'm also not super enthusiastic about wearing feminine clothing or such...but maybe that's something other people can know about. But that doesn't change that I do feel like I'm at least in part a girl.

Anyway that's a bit of a rant...but yeah I'm going through a lot of questioning about my gender identity rn. As for updates, for now as of a few days ago, I've come out to some of my online friend circles as wanting to test the waters by also having she/her pronouns to address me by (still use he/him but I also want to be referred to by she/her and see how I vibe with it). Not fully going trans/genderfluid rn but have decided to test out feminine pronouns to see how much I vibe with she/her. So um...yeah there's that and a bit of a venting of thoughts that I've been having about my own gender questioning for the past year or so.

So um...yeah, that's just some stuff I felt I wanted to get off my chest, still on a journey with figuring out stuff but there's that.
 
https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/12/10/metzger-bar-and-butchery-refuses-service-to-christian-group/

This restaurant is based af for this and i really love to see this christian anti-lgbtq+ & abortion hate group crying and embarass themselves. They really just compared this refusal of service because of their own actions to the situation of Black people and racial minorities who were denied Services cause of their skin colour, what a bunch of bigoted clowns. These "christian" groups really do a great job at more people becoming hateful towards religion and radical atheists (and no, i don't like radical atheism either).
 
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ScraftyIsTheBest said:
For the record, I'm AMAB and I have conformed to identifying as a man for most of my life. I don't hate being male, and I don't feel that I've had any explicit showing of gender dysphoria, but at the same time in recent times I've also...really frequently thought of the idea that I might be at least some form of transfemme. Maybe genderfluid, maybe full on trans girl, maybe nonbinary with a femme lean...I don't know.

But it's really not easy to come to a conclusion. It's a constant loop of self-doubt and so forth. Every time I think I might be a girl I end up doubting myself in some way or another. Like is this just a weird fantasy that I want to be and I'm not actually trans? Am I "good enough" to really be a trans girl? Am I faking being trans? And so forth.

I've also thought of the idea that I might be genderfluid in some form, though that said...that's to a lesser extent than I have entertained the thought of outright being a girl. I have mostly thought that because I don't really hate being a man and have been okay with it...at least I believe I have.
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I am a bit late but hi, wanted to reply to this one as a trans woman bc I remember having similar doubts and talking to a trans woman back then helped me a lot, so I hope it helps you too, at least a little:

There is no quota to meet to be trans. No minimum requirement of transition, of "feminine" things, of feelings. I am a trans woman that still uses he and they pronouns (and the equivalent in portuguese), who still participates in masculine roles (I am butch, and tend to play with masc indentities a lot), who still dresses with masculine clothes, etc. Despite it all, I truly am a trans woman. I love being trans, I love being a woman. Sure, most people don't get it, they think it's weird, but why care? Gender isn't a performance that people are there to judge you on, it's personal and yours. If you feel like a trans girl, well, why not experiment?

You don't have to go all in. Dip your toes in, do what you like, but felt inadequate about. You don't have to have a conclusion now, or ever. You can change your mind, you can create something new for yourself. The most important thing is to find a version of yourself you love, you're comfortable with, you can tolerate. Whatever your goal is.

Whatever you do, however you transition (if you do. You can be trans and not change anything about yourself), people will be there for you. If you need help, advice, or whatever, even if you decide you're not a trans girl, do lmk. I've been there, it can be scary but it's so worth it, no matter the result
 
ScraftyIsTheBest said:
So um...hi.

I'm posting here mainly with regards to a few things about my own gender identity. I already currently identify as bi and on the ace spectrum, for the record, so there's that. I'm having trouble articulating what I want to say here, so bear with me here.

But I've been questioning my gender identity a lot over the past several months. At some points I wonder if I'm just lying to myself and that I'm not really genderqueer in any way but the thoughts have continually come up and never stopped, and every time I look stuff up on the Internet about possible "signs" that I might be trans or genderfluid or anything among those lines they just end up making me feel more and more conflicted.

For the record, I'm AMAB and I have conformed to identifying as a man for most of my life. I don't hate being male, and I don't feel that I've had any explicit showing of gender dysphoria, but at the same time in recent times I've also...really frequently thought of the idea that I might be at least some form of transfemme. Maybe genderfluid, maybe full on trans girl, maybe nonbinary with a femme lean...I don't know.

But it's really not easy to come to a conclusion. It's a constant loop of self-doubt and so forth. Every time I think I might be a girl I end up doubting myself in some way or another. Like is this just a weird fantasy that I want to be and I'm not actually trans? Am I "good enough" to really be a trans girl? Am I faking being trans? And so forth.

I've also thought of the idea that I might be genderfluid in some form, though that said...that's to a lesser extent than I have entertained the thought of outright being a girl. I have mostly thought that because I don't really hate being a man and have been okay with it...at least I believe I have.

And if I do come to the conclusion that I'm trans (girl)...it honestly scares me. I have a nagging fear that if I stay "closeted" and only present as a trans girl online here and around my online friend groups and not IRL that it would make me inherently less "trans" than other trans people. Like at some point in the scenario that I do come to the conclusion that I am in fact a girl, I might be able to muster the courage to go all the way with it and transition IRL, like growing out my hair (which would take months for me to get to a point where I'd have long hair), getting into feminine ways of presenting myself, and possibly HRT but for now there's no way I'd be able to do all that. Maybe in several years from now when my life circumstances change. I don't really know how to explore that IRL yet. I'm also not super enthusiastic about wearing feminine clothing or such...but maybe that's something other people can know about. But that doesn't change that I do feel like I'm at least in part a girl.

Anyway that's a bit of a rant...but yeah I'm going through a lot of questioning about my gender identity rn. As for updates, for now as of a few days ago, I've come out to some of my online friend circles as wanting to test the waters by also having she/her pronouns to address me by (still use he/him but I also want to be referred to by she/her and see how I vibe with it). Not fully going trans/genderfluid rn but have decided to test out feminine pronouns to see how much I vibe with she/her. So um...yeah there's that and a bit of a venting of thoughts that I've been having about my own gender questioning for the past year or so.

So um...yeah, that's just some stuff I felt I wanted to get off my chest, still on a journey with figuring out stuff but there's that.
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Hello, i don't know if you feel better by now, but as a fellow trans folk i know what you are feeling. One very important thing i was taught before i decided to take HRT because i choose by my own will to have a more feminine body, is that tying your gender to the traditional "looks" of whatever society think a man/woman looks like is complete BS.

Do not feel pressured to look like what mostly everyone thinks a woman should look like, and do NOT ever feel GUILTY or LESSER because of what you feel more comfortable with yourself with. It's all made up mental barriers to keep our minds weaker and self-doubting, and to keep some people agonizongly closeted for their whole life sometimes.

What you feel deep down in your soul is who you are. Explore yourself and see how you truly feel outside of whatever everyone else says, see how you would truly feel being a woman without any interference from the outside. Try it however you please, like in these forums or wherever. If it makes you happy and you like it, to me and to any person with common sense and empathy, and most importantly to YOU, you are a perfectly valid not only trans woman, but a valid woman full stop.

Keep that head of yours up and be true to yourself. If you need something hmu. And have a nice day!

With much love, someone called Melanie.
 
I saw one polemic news and want to share.
A trans women in the Brasília university wasn't allowed to enter in the feminin bathroom for one cis women.
The cis women called the trans womens as dude, as if she isn't a women too.
I saw that news in a feminist page in Instagram, and all cis womens in the page are attacking the trans women as she was rly him.
To make the scenario worst, the trans women is white and the cis women is black. So the feminist are acusing the trans women as a racist dude.
and a important detail, the trans women had a beard, so the feminist are saying she is only a dude in a dress and rly can't use the feminim bathroom.
What do you think about this case?
Below a image of Conchita Wurst, a trans women with beard. Is she less women to you?
20140321_Dancing_Stars_Conchita_Wurst_4187.jpg
 
Posho said:
They rly have no business calling themselves 'feminists' then lol
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Yeah they never should be calling themselves feminists, but here we are. Their network with far-right & christian fundamentalist groups/orgs and politicians in europe and north america to destroy civil rights of LGBTIQ+ (even tho they pretend to be for lesbians and bisexual women rights) are well documented at this point, and they score almost all points of Umberto Ecos definition of fascism. Many of these "activists" are as open as they can be about their goal to eradicate "the trans phenomenon" out of existence (a quote from cis lesbian Janice Raymonds book "The Transsexual Empire) and so many of them are huge racist bigots as well who believe in originally anti-jewish conspiracy theories (in fact they believe trans people are a ploy from rich jewish people). But the world is full of transphobe bigots, so they can champion themselves as "fighters for women's rights" while everything they actually stand for is so damn regressive.
 
It's just... Sad. There's so much hate, mockery, belittlement and guilt tripping towards trans folks from such a large amount of people that... It's really hard to process that millions of people will think of you as subhuman because of how you are.

For the people here who are trying out and experimenting with their identity no matter where in the process they are, you are brave and beautiful souls for even starting to try, there's many who don't get the chance to do so. That fear, i have felt it many times, but i do not care anymore, i will be myself even if someday it could cost me everything.

I wish love and happiness upon all of you dear people. We are all together in this fight for happiness and inner peace.
 
new year new slay update part 3 (oop almost 2 years later tho)

i'm still in my same relationship from my most recent update and we're celebrating 3 years together now!!

we've struggled a lot with homophobic family and my thought process was always to shut out anyone that didn't support me or my relationship with my partner. His grandparents specifically have been rather problematic for me in the fact they pretend I don't exist most of the time and while he has been more than understanding it's still extremely rough to navigate. However, I feel like we've finally gotten into a good point with it? He's always defended me in situations where they cause issues. Sometimes things are really hard to navigate but I think with proper communication you can always make it through. Who knows, maybe the next update will come with a ring :tyke:
 
I'm terrible with words and I'm sorry if this seems like my life's story.

Hi my name is Shawn and I'm half Korean ( mom's side.) and Irish (dad's side.) my parents got divorced when my sister and I were young.
I felt like that was sort of my fault for having ADHD and it being super difficult for me in school having parent teacher conferences and constantly being told that I was "lazy or stupid" and receiving the "traditional method of discipline" and getting compared with others ( being cousins or her friend's kids.) which over the years has given me anxiety and secondary depression, and both me and my sister are nonbinary, my sister already opened up with the family as being a nonbinary lesbian.

In my case however it's very difficult to open up to everyone else in my family except my sister, I've already opened up to her as being an ace transgirl. When my sister opened up our dad, he seemed to be okay with it and was pretty supportive and when she opened up to the rest of the family our mom was fuming - like over the top pissed off.. our aunts and uncles along with cousins seemed to be okay with it and was glad that she opened up to them, as for me I haven't opened up to anyone other than my sister. When the topic of having a girlfriend getting married and getting children - it makes me super uncomfortable so I just reply saying "I'm not interested at the moment" then get compared to my cousins that already have children, it makes me feel like I'm an even bigger disappointment.

When I'm asked to go out with people or just leave the house in general, other than if my sister asks me to go out to eat or whatever.. I'm rather seclusive.

That's why I named myself Seclusive Shoujo.
 
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Medeia said:
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/01/gop-lawmaker-wants-force-young-trans-adults-de-transition/

And yet some self-proclaimed "leftist" on American Politics topic slams at the idea to call these republicans fascists. This is the next stage on the crusade against transgender people, whoever thought this would stop with trans teens healthcare, bathrooms & sports was at best naive.
Click to expand...

It's always the privileged people telling us to play nice and "just vote/debate/etc" while people are literally murdering us, the only solution to a violent society is to defend yourself and those around you (which doesn't have to mean you personally hold a gun, mutual aid groups supporting people willing to do community defense is essential, shelter for those of us forced out of our homes is essential, resources and mental health support is essential).

Republicans are fascists, Democrats flip flop between being intentional fascist enablers or just useless, most of the people who go "I'm an ally" will never actually put themselves on the line for us. We protect and support us or nobody does.

On that note regarding support, if any queer people need help navigating the mental health system in the (so-called) united states for therapy/hrt/letter for surgery/whatever else my DMs are open. I'm a therapist who mostly works with trans and nonbinary people and I write gender affirming letters for clients all the time - I'm happy to point people to resources I'm aware of and/or try to help with navigating the system (which is so often hostile and unnavigable for us). I can't promise to know something local to everyone but I do generally know how cishet therapists and doctors think and how to get around them to get what we actually need.
 
It's been a long time since I posted here. I figured I'd write a post in the hopes that it might help somebody else feel less alone if they ever come across this in a time of need and need to relate to somebody. It's really heartwarming and amazing to see people here offering their support and help. It's a real reminder of how kind the queer community can be despite the hardships and disagreements. I can't express enough how amazing that is.

I've been queer for as long as I can remember. A lot of you will know what it's like to feel that aching difference that separates you from your family, friends and peers right from when you were a child and sometimes long into adulthood. I first came out as gay a long time ago. I don't need to preach to the choir about how it is being gay. The unfortunate truth of being queer is that we exist at the intersection of many forms of discrimination.

As I get older, I'm trying to figure out why I continue to experience that ache after all of this time. It's one of the worst feelings in the world to feel alienated from the people around you on the basis of who you are. But it's so goddamn painful to feel alienated from yourself in tandem. Feeling content with your gender, how we present on a daily basis, and the roles that we take on often for the purpose of conforming, is something people take for granted. There are so many things to consider and account for when facing the jarring feelings of gender dysphoria and the possibility of being trans. How do you tell the people you know? Will you be safe? How will you find employment? How do you find a partner that's accepting of you entirely? What parts of yourself will you have to compromise? It's so vulnerable and embarrassing for many of us. The reality is that integral aspects of human life become uncertainties when you're queer. That ache of mine might never go away but for now I'm fine with just accepting that it's there.

It's so unfortunate that so many of us feel we have to bicker with people (especially people who aren't in our day to day lives) about who we are or explain ourselves at great lengths with flawless logic and counter arguments at the ready. They genuinely have no comprehension of how soul crushing and crippling it is to feel completely disconnected from the person you show as to not only others but also to yourself. I hope that one day this isn't necessary for us.

It's perfectly fine to have ambiguous, conflicted and sometimes painful feelings about your identity. Being a human is really fucking confusing and illogical as is. Being queer is barely the tip of that iceberg and nobody has it fully figured out.

You deserve to live life without giving explanations for your existence and experience the same unapologetic sincerity that other people live their lives with. One day you will experience those same sacred moments you see other people in this world experience, and it'll be great.

Stay safe babes :heart:
 
It's an inevitable part of coming out: I've had a close friend and a family member ghost me. So this is what it feels like, and it sucks.

I've also been wondering if losing people might outweigh feeling good about myself. If that's the case, might transitioning not really be what I want? Or, if it is still what I want, how have you guys coped with losing people? I really don't know what to think.

Did my folks have a point all along in that all I really wanted was relationships?
 
I'm sorry to hear about your struggles, losing people that are important to you bc of this stuff happens to everyone eventually and it always stings.

ancient and oft-repeated advice but it's always worth reiterating; if your friends and family members are ghosting you as a result of coming out, then it's pretty clear that you weren't going to remain close anyway. it sucks to say it but you'd end up being too divided on political issues to get along at anything more than a surface level relationship.

it sucks to lose people, but people are everywhere. making new friends can be hard but it'll make you happier in the long run than trying to keep the old ones through living a lie, and it's probably easier than doing that anyway. you can also try talking some sense into the people that are ghosting you if you can grab a hold of them (going through a more accepting family member or friend can be a good way to do this) - minds are most often changed when it concerns someone that they care about. if they can't be changed, they probably weren't worth your time in the long run.

apologies if this is unhelpful, there's only so much advice i can give. only you can weigh your feelings at the end of the day. if nothing else though, please don't let other people dictate how you live your life. it will only make you more unhappy in the long run.
 
Lily said:
I'm sorry to hear about your struggles, losing people that are important to you bc of this stuff happens to everyone eventually and it always stings.

ancient and oft-repeated advice but it's always worth reiterating; if your friends and family members are ghosting you as a result of coming out, then it's pretty clear that you weren't going to remain close anyway. it sucks to say it but you'd end up being too divided on political issues to get along at anything more than a surface level relationship.

it sucks to lose people, but people are everywhere. making new friends can be hard but it'll make you happier in the long run than trying to keep the old ones through living a lie, and it's probably easier than doing that anyway. you can also try talking some sense into the people that are ghosting you if you can grab a hold of them (going through a more accepting family member or friend can be a good way to do this) - minds are most often changed when it concerns someone that they care about. if they can't be changed, they probably weren't worth your time in the long run.

apologies if this is unhelpful, there's only so much advice i can give. only you can weigh your feelings at the end of the day. if nothing else though, please don't let other people dictate how you live your life. it will only make you more unhappy in the long run.
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That was actually very motivating to hear; thank you! Both of these people did seem accepting of it at first; it might also be a shock b/c it's happening to someone so close to them. The plan is to give them their space for a little while; I will inevitably cross paths with them during the year b/c my parents are close with their families. Time will tell if they come around.

How they're handling it is, basically, "they're so worried about me that they are ghosting me". Both had said, privately, that they were extremely concerned, so perhaps I scared them a little. Shock value wears off over time, so I'm hopeful that it will do so here within the next few months.

And as for my own feelings, that's been a recurring theme. I keep saying I'm 99% sure that I am indeed trans, but there is still that 1% of doubt. Some of it comes from my folks/therapist; others come from my own tendency to second-guess myself. I'll figure this out eventually.
 
My relationship with my mom (who I considered someone I could trust with anything up to this point) has also been run into the ground after a series of infringements on my personal boundaries, re: gender identity. The same woman who co-owned a gay bar in the 90s, the same woman who tried dressing me in drag every year for Halloween when I was a kid.

The gag is I don’t need her for anything LMFAO so we’ll see when she comes back and tries again

Get y’all’s financial independence, get y’all’s therapist in order, get y’all’s local support system together; it’ll help, beyond.
 
Triple777 Vinny said:
posting here because i like this thread


is it valid to consider yourself male and also genderfluid? i ask bc a year or so back i felt very strongly that i was genderfluid, then i backpedaled a bit bc at the time i thought i was content just being male and using he/him as pronouns. now those feelings are starting to resurface again. i have a lot of discomfort surrounding my voice and body. i dont really know how to describe the feeling other than it being strange, and i dont really have any family or friends that id talk to about it. has anyone here had or is going through a similar experience?
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It is a very weird feeling. To not experience any dysphoria about your maleness, but to recognize within yourself that there is more to you, a feminine part of you that must be expressed alongside the masculine to be authentic, yet to know that a lifetime of socialization and experience from a masculine perspective creates a distance from the lived experiences of FAAB persons as you try to incorporate new experiences to your life to express the wholeness of self. And yet not to resent the experiences of those others but to feel the loss of opportunity and the isolating distance of the feminine internal all the same. It's almost easier in a way if we were trans, purely for the certainty of self within that 'wrongness' of the host gender (setting aside the far greater and more severe practical concerns of discrimination), I've yet to find any coherent means to categorize my experience, falling back only on trying to act in ways that are authentic with who I am, shifting between masc and femme fluidly as my 'self' needs, though almost entirely with the privacy of my home. There are things that can be done to subtly affect the body to create a greater harmony, body hair, workout routines, etc, and ways to modulate the voice as well though those require a greater degree of caution. I hope for your sake that you have friends you can talk to if you need, I've had mixed results with the people I've shared my gender fluidity with; the vast majority response was indifference which is the basic level I require, but in a rare case there has been greater degrees of openness and acceptance and one case of full acceptance which feels largely freeing to be able to talk openly about something otherwise kept very private, knowing the ignorance pervading so many others. I wish I had a better response and a reassurance that the strangeness of everything made greater sense but that insight is yet hidden from me, for we walk a middle path, largely unexplored in the literature, with few guideposts to follow. My best advice is to follow the source of discomfort within yourself and find a path that allows you to act authentically, even if only to yourself when you are alone, and give yourself the time and space to think and meditate upon who you truly are, for that depth of self-understanding is the path (long and winding though it may be) to resolve all internal conflict and uncertainty.
 
Posho said:
They rly have no business calling themselves 'feminists' then lol
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Correct, but totalitarians and their allies will always abuse language to mean its opposite. Fascists do this with all sorts of terms, like "free speech," and they do it with analogies too, like comparing pandemic measures to the Holocaust. The entire point is to eliminate meaning behind these words, strip them of power among a future population, and to market themselves to those who would otherwise be empowered from that language as it's plainly meant. Calling themselves "feminist" is little more than a recruiting tool for susceptible older women, and "free speech" was a recruiting tool for international and immigrant students from places where free expression is actually under assault. It's no secret that the vast majority of TERF support comes from older women even if a great deal of TERF content is coming from "Marxist" (another example of misappropriated language) far-right middle-aged millennials.

One of the early influential TERFs, Lierre Keith, was actually a prominent environmental activist who would go on to advocate mass murder as an environmental solution, and would even go on to advocate meat-eating after aligning behind the oil-soaked Koch network. IMO, Keith is a really good example of the connection between totalitarian, murderous ideologies in the West and ongoing transphobic movements. Keith and her associate Derrick Jensen are now really influential among ecofascists through their network Deep Green Resistance, which also demonstrates the intersection of antisemitism with transphobia.

My best friend's mother was actually a somewhat major (and now former and heavily critical) TERF, but differed from the leadership within the movement in that she was a True Believer in the propaganda. One of the wake-up calls for her was seeing how leadership was deeply aligned against feminist and LGBTQ2S movements, in part thanks to her children pushing back against it (her son, my best friend has always been an advocate for trans rights, and his best friend [me] and her daughter are bisexual). Pointing out the contradictions between TERFs' (stated) political mission and those of their allies is important to challenging the beliefs of their True Believers imo.
 
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Medeia said:
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/01/gop-lawmaker-wants-force-young-trans-adults-de-transition/

And yet some self-proclaimed "leftist" on American Politics topic slams at the idea to call these republicans fascists. This is the next stage on the crusade against transgender people, whoever thought this would stop with trans teens healthcare, bathrooms & sports was at best naive.
Click to expand...


And now these totalitarians even push bills to remove trans children from parents affirming them, totally not a measure to erase all trans identity from the country and eventually the world (/s), but certain people will keep defending this party and their staunch supporters as if they were even remotely democratic and on the ground of human rights.

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/03...ns-youth-custody-gender-affirming-healthcare/

Edit: Here's also a speech blatantly saying what trans people have being trying to tell people for years:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1632057198577606657
 
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