I don't really feel up to rebuttaling everything here but I just feel like you ignored half of what I said for the sake of making a point... like I understand you feel that the 3 mons you listed aren't enough but you kinda just ignored the other 10 mins I listed?? Obviously none of them are hard counters, neither are the "big 3" but it's strange to just disregard them. 
I'm interested in the fact that most of the replays you listed showed teams that actually -don't- rely on Quagsire or Scream Tail. For example, in the last replay you linked, an Iron Hands build that even has what's essentially the perfect set for the matchup (Tera Ghost vs Tera Ghost Wo-Chien) and even faces the rare non-Encore Tinkaton (the only mon in the team that it can even set up on safely) still loses thanks to some effective in-game workarounds. And just skimming through the masters thread shows a similar trend; the mons that check hands are common bc they check hands, sure, but they also check other very relevant mons and would be strong choices regardless.
You're not forced into using 2-3 mons. See, for example, this game, where pif ensures pdt's Iron Hands makes minimal progress through hazard pressure and good play, or this one where it gets owned by udongirl's Tinkaton, or this one where psyterrain destroys it, or here where it loses to Tsareena, or here where it trades with a ttar and accomplishes nothing else, or here where another offense squad owns it, etc. There a few more games I didn't grab bc r realistically nobody is watching all of these anyway, but the point is that people have been finding their way around Iron Hands in game, despite these replays not involving any dedicated counters.
My message didn't come through accurately in my last post so I'm sorry for that. When I was saying that lazy building is frustrating me, I was largely referring to the "cookie cutter cores" that aim to just defensively beat everything and slap on an offensive mon to win faster. I mentioned the tinka talon gastro tsar code because that was the most common / popular one, not because I specifically meant that one. I mean even now you have people running their old teams that used that core, slapping on a quag > gastro and complaining that it's not good enough vs the hands... Idk. That's frustrating to me because I know there's a lot more room for fun in this tier. In fact, even in my own replays (the ones you chose not to link), I tried to use stuff that I felt was fun and/or creative, and those teams don't at all struggle with Iron Hands. I've laddered enough with both to say that with confidence.
Like I said before, still not disagreeing that it's possibly overly restricting or an unhealthy builder presence. Just disagreeing with the idea that you can only beat it with a miniscule number of mons. Plenty of games have shown otherwise. Offensively checking it isn't easy but it's clearly pretty doable. I'll probably lean ban anyway in the end solely off the potential of the lure sets but we'll see.
				
			I'm interested in the fact that most of the replays you listed showed teams that actually -don't- rely on Quagsire or Scream Tail. For example, in the last replay you linked, an Iron Hands build that even has what's essentially the perfect set for the matchup (Tera Ghost vs Tera Ghost Wo-Chien) and even faces the rare non-Encore Tinkaton (the only mon in the team that it can even set up on safely) still loses thanks to some effective in-game workarounds. And just skimming through the masters thread shows a similar trend; the mons that check hands are common bc they check hands, sure, but they also check other very relevant mons and would be strong choices regardless.
You're not forced into using 2-3 mons. See, for example, this game, where pif ensures pdt's Iron Hands makes minimal progress through hazard pressure and good play, or this one where it gets owned by udongirl's Tinkaton, or this one where psyterrain destroys it, or here where it loses to Tsareena, or here where it trades with a ttar and accomplishes nothing else, or here where another offense squad owns it, etc. There a few more games I didn't grab bc r realistically nobody is watching all of these anyway, but the point is that people have been finding their way around Iron Hands in game, despite these replays not involving any dedicated counters.
My message didn't come through accurately in my last post so I'm sorry for that. When I was saying that lazy building is frustrating me, I was largely referring to the "cookie cutter cores" that aim to just defensively beat everything and slap on an offensive mon to win faster. I mentioned the tinka talon gastro tsar code because that was the most common / popular one, not because I specifically meant that one. I mean even now you have people running their old teams that used that core, slapping on a quag > gastro and complaining that it's not good enough vs the hands... Idk. That's frustrating to me because I know there's a lot more room for fun in this tier. In fact, even in my own replays (the ones you chose not to link), I tried to use stuff that I felt was fun and/or creative, and those teams don't at all struggle with Iron Hands. I've laddered enough with both to say that with confidence.
Like I said before, still not disagreeing that it's possibly overly restricting or an unhealthy builder presence. Just disagreeing with the idea that you can only beat it with a miniscule number of mons. Plenty of games have shown otherwise. Offensively checking it isn't easy but it's clearly pretty doable. I'll probably lean ban anyway in the end solely off the potential of the lure sets but we'll see.
 
 
		 
 
		 
 
		
 
 
		 
 
		




 
	 
 
		 
 
		 
 
		

 The Iron Hands suspect test of 2023 was in my opinion the perfect example, at least from my experience, of how a suspect process should work and actually does its job.  This is because at the start of the suspect test I thought that Iron Hands, like most everything else in UU history, was perfectly fine in the tier and that all of the outcry was very overblown.  However there is one very specific set that pushes it over the edge and into banworthy territory, and that's the Sub/SD/Tera Ghost set.  No other sets are overbearing for SV UU imo, any other Iron Hands is actually quite fine in the tier.  But this set is just too much and has almost no reasonable counterplay whatsoever.
 The Iron Hands suspect test of 2023 was in my opinion the perfect example, at least from my experience, of how a suspect process should work and actually does its job.  This is because at the start of the suspect test I thought that Iron Hands, like most everything else in UU history, was perfectly fine in the tier and that all of the outcry was very overblown.  However there is one very specific set that pushes it over the edge and into banworthy territory, and that's the Sub/SD/Tera Ghost set.  No other sets are overbearing for SV UU imo, any other Iron Hands is actually quite fine in the tier.  But this set is just too much and has almost no reasonable counterplay whatsoever. With regard to other mons in the tier, I think the Gengar panic is super overblown.  I have not had any major problems dealing with Gengar.  It's not quite fast enough to overrun most teams, not quite strong enough with a scarf so you can defensively answer it with multiple things like Tink, Graf, Goodra, or correct predicts on things like Bisharp, TTar, etc.  And it's frail enough that many offensive mons will revenge it without much of an issue.  It's simply a very good Special Attacker in the tier that fits well on a lot of teams.
With regard to other mons in the tier, I think the Gengar panic is super overblown.  I have not had any major problems dealing with Gengar.  It's not quite fast enough to overrun most teams, not quite strong enough with a scarf so you can defensively answer it with multiple things like Tink, Graf, Goodra, or correct predicts on things like Bisharp, TTar, etc.  And it's frail enough that many offensive mons will revenge it without much of an issue.  It's simply a very good Special Attacker in the tier that fits well on a lot of teams. The only other single pokemon in the tier that I think should be looked at is Polteageist, as there's been an uptick in Tera Fire builds and it's kind of a very silly thing to be running around the tier.  We might lose terrain anyways next month and then it won't be as much of an issue, but if there was ever a mon that may for once in my opinion fit the "unhealthy" description, it's the teapot.  It's the ultimate fishy mon that requires you to have dedicated checks so you don't auto-lose to it, and these days you don't know if you are able to check with a Dark type (Tera Fight Tea) or with Tink (Tera Fire Tea).  I'd prob vote to ban it and it totally baffles my mind that people think something like Gengar is too much but look the other way on the teapot like they owe it some sort of favor or something.
The only other single pokemon in the tier that I think should be looked at is Polteageist, as there's been an uptick in Tera Fire builds and it's kind of a very silly thing to be running around the tier.  We might lose terrain anyways next month and then it won't be as much of an issue, but if there was ever a mon that may for once in my opinion fit the "unhealthy" description, it's the teapot.  It's the ultimate fishy mon that requires you to have dedicated checks so you don't auto-lose to it, and these days you don't know if you are able to check with a Dark type (Tera Fight Tea) or with Tink (Tera Fire Tea).  I'd prob vote to ban it and it totally baffles my mind that people think something like Gengar is too much but look the other way on the teapot like they owe it some sort of favor or something. 
 
		 
 
		

 
 
		 
 
		










 
  
  
  
  apparently built by Mimilucha and had a v tough time if they didn’t try to set up on King
 apparently built by Mimilucha and had a v tough time if they didn’t try to set up on King 
 
		
 
 
		



 
 
		 
 
		 
 
		 
 
		
 
 
		 
 
		 
 
 
 
		
 
 
		 moving to ru is pretty surprising to me, ive been using it alot and its really excellent. the fast speed tier and great coverage aswell as competitive letting you switch into all the parting shots and intimidates in this for mat and get special attack boosts is just a really valuable trait. i think it probably fell to ru due to the loss of rain but it definitely has alot of potential outside of rain teams
 moving to ru is pretty surprising to me, ive been using it alot and its really excellent. the fast speed tier and great coverage aswell as competitive letting you switch into all the parting shots and intimidates in this for mat and get special attack boosts is just a really valuable trait. i think it probably fell to ru due to the loss of rain but it definitely has alot of potential outside of rain teams former tier king scizor dropping to uu is kinda coool, although it lost some of the moves that made it great like knock off and roost, without roost its defensive utility is gonna be pretty limited, no more max defense bulky scizor D: i do still think itll be a pretty good pokemon in uu with banded bullet punch still being incredibly strong aswell as the addition of close combat instead of superpower
 former tier king scizor dropping to uu is kinda coool, although it lost some of the moves that made it great like knock off and roost, without roost its defensive utility is gonna be pretty limited, no more max defense bulky scizor D: i do still think itll be a pretty good pokemon in uu with banded bullet punch still being incredibly strong aswell as the addition of close combat instead of superpower this guys annoying and is gonna make screens ho alot more popular, or maybe itll be outclassed as a screener by scream tail and espeon who have other good traits, who knows.
 this guys annoying and is gonna make screens ho alot more popular, or maybe itll be outclassed as a screener by scream tail and espeon who have other good traits, who knows.   this pokemon has been really good in uu for a while, with life orb choice band and swords dance sets being able to break through alot of the tier if played well, nice that its getting more use. i think a well played lycan is one of the scariest mons to face in the tier
 this pokemon has been really good in uu for a while, with life orb choice band and swords dance sets being able to break through alot of the tier if played well, nice that its getting more use. i think a well played lycan is one of the scariest mons to face in the tier has been popping up alot more recently on offensive teams, if tatsu gets +1 speed and a nasty plot boost its  a really scary mon to switch into with its great water dragon coverage and 120 base spatck, it also has some good defensive utility. tauros-paldea-blaze
 has been popping up alot more recently on offensive teams, if tatsu gets +1 speed and a nasty plot boost its  a really scary mon to switch into with its great water dragon coverage and 120 base spatck, it also has some good defensive utility. tauros-paldea-blaze  this mon has incredible defenisve utility right now aswell is being decently fast with its base 100 speed and quite strong, it also has coverage for almost everything in this meta apart from the slowtwins with stone edge close combat and raging bulll, but even the slowtwins can get willowisped on the switchin. weavile
 this mon has incredible defenisve utility right now aswell is being decently fast with its base 100 speed and quite strong, it also has coverage for almost everything in this meta apart from the slowtwins with stone edge close combat and raging bulll, but even the slowtwins can get willowisped on the switchin. weavile  the former titan of gen8ou is now in ru due to  knock off and triple axel being removed from its movepool, but i still think its a really good pokemon despite that with choice banded icicle crashes being able to break through pretty much the whole tier.some of the few crash switchins are tinkaton which has sad physical defense (takes almost 40%) and slowking which gets bopped by night slash and the aforementioned tauros paldea which does wall this mon. but i think its one of the scareist mons to switchin to.
 the former titan of gen8ou is now in ru due to  knock off and triple axel being removed from its movepool, but i still think its a really good pokemon despite that with choice banded icicle crashes being able to break through pretty much the whole tier.some of the few crash switchins are tinkaton which has sad physical defense (takes almost 40%) and slowking which gets bopped by night slash and the aforementioned tauros paldea which does wall this mon. but i think its one of the scareist mons to switchin to.