Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[Turtlek]

what are your thoughts on regidrago? do you think that it will become ban-worthy due to terastylization?
(regieleki is definitely getting banned if it gets ice tera blast).

it's got Earth power anyway, it's likely not overbearing, it doesn't hit that hard and is p slow

 

[Soiramio3000]

it's got Earth power anyway, it's likely not overbearing, it doesn't hit that hard and is p slow

what about fairy types?
now that it can use poison/steel terablast it can beat them.

also dragon tera+dragon maw=double power on dragon type moves.

any way,maybe I am overeacting,there is a good chance it wil stay legal.

 

[Return to Zero]

what about fairy types?
now that it can use poison/steel terablast it can beat them.

also dragon tera+dragon maw=double power on dragon type moves.

any way,maybe I am overeacting,there is a good chance it wil stay legal.

Well, it's also got pretty low defenses its high HP doesn't quite make up for, a la Guzzlord. It's super reliant on getting Dragon Dance boosts up to sweep with, otherwise anything other than Dragon's Maw-boosted STAB is gonna hit like a limp pool noodle and that base 80 Speed will really hold it back. For example, it's slower than Great Tusk, who would absolutely love it if this thing Terastallized into something that is weak to both Fighting and Ground.

I don't really know what Regidrago can do in OU that Baxcalibur can't do the same or better, given that it's faster, has Ice coverage and priority, and has an Attack stat that's about 1.5 times higher, the same boost on Dragon's Maw.

*Edit: Oh, 100 base Attack, not 80.

 

[Cheryl.]

from playing Gen 9 randbats, I can definitely say DD Regidrago has become much scarier through access to EQ and Tera Steel for Fairy-types is definitely a huge help. However, compared to other DDers while its Dragon STAB is ludicrously strong, its Speed is pretty mid (not THAT much worse than Baxcalibur but still not great) and its bulk is still just serviceable even with the huge HP. A set of DD/Dragon Claw or Outrage/EQ/Iron Head with Tera Steel could be viable on Screens though probably for just how strong its Dragon STAB is.

For example:
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Dragon's Maw Regidrago Outrage vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 265-313 (87.1 - 102.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

 

[incorolla]

Here's a fun Great Tusk set I've been playing with:


Vilkas (Great Tusk) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Rapid Spin
- Rest

And a replay where it came in clutch:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1808504228

If you've got rocks on another Pokémon - in my case, Iron Treads - it frees up room for a Chesto Resto technique that's really useful.

 

[LoseToRU?]

Ayo players.

Yesterday, a cool OU mod made a temporary chat room.
This room was created to have non-Terra gen 9 OU tournaments.
At it's peak we had about 15 players in the room and it was a lot of fun.

The mod said that if we get enough support, we can make a permanent room for players who are interested in this.

We're looking for two types of players:

1) Players who simply don't like the Terra gimmick.

2) Players who are curious to see what gen 9 would look like w/o Terra.

Personally, my reasoning is that you literally can't truly balance a Terra meta.
It can be fun, and I have no issue staying in the top 20 of the OU ladder, or at least top 50 on my worst days.
However, I would much rather just play normal pokemon...

Remember gen 8?
Kinda stale but really balanced.
It was held back by regen goofy shit, boots goofy shit, too much recovery PP, toxic and knock on everything, etc.

In gen 9 we have some really cool new mons, and a lot of those issues have been solved by GF.
Yet, we can't just play pokemon...

Anyway.

If you think Terra is fine and blah blah then that's perfectly okay, we can still use your support if you are interested to see what this generation would look like without the gimmick.

It's a simple command to ban terra, and even more simple to start a tour, which we did.
The room would also be a place to have friendly matches w/o Terra.

Also, before anyone says, "wait for Home!", I firmly believe Terra will never receive enough support for a ban.
I can get into the reasonings in depth on another post if needed but I want to keep this short.

The sooner we make a room for non-Terra, the better.

We're not attacking the community, we don't want to split the player base.
This would be a just for fun room, but a much needed one as well.

I'm also not looking for drama- if this doesn't interest you please just move along with your day, I will not be engaging with any weirdo replies.

Please like this post, message me, or respond with potential ideas if this concept of a non-terra room interests you!
I'll get with the mod and lay out exactly what we need to make this happen.
There are rooms on Showdown with about 15 active users, so even if there is only about 30 of us, we could probably make this happen!

Idk why it hasn't been implemented sooner.

We've had and offered concepts of split ladders for various mechanics (at one point there was even a split stealth rocks/scald ladder), considering how controversial tera is as a concept, you'd think that would be attempted as a 'everyone wins' solution, or alternatively it acts as a proper suspect ladder showing what the game would be like without tera (which IMO is why the tera suspect was poorly done cause everyone was pure theorymon on what banning it would do.)

The only problem would be lower tiers choosing which is the official ruleset since its pretty much a cointoss on which ladder they tier by.

I don't want a separate ladder or to split up the playerbase.

This would just be a silly room, like "Health & Fitness" or "Pro Wrestling", rooms that barely have 15 active users at a time lol.
We would just hang out, have friendly non-Terra battles and non-Terra tournaments.

You can like Terra and still want to play some games without it.

Our great OU council and a global mod have laid out some prerequisites-
First things first is we need at least 30 players before we can submit our request.
I already have the support of some staff we just need to hit 30.

If anyone is interested in a fun PS! chat room where we can have non-terra gen 9 battles, and maybe play some Uno, then please like this post or my previous one.
To players who have already PM me about joining, this is your current update and I have you on the list as well.

This is looking more likely than I thought! Just need about 10 or so more ppl!

EDIT: after speaking with Ian_Yo in OU chat he asked if we could play UU as well and I said of course!
Which gave me the idea to branch out to other forums and gather support there.
If I can get 10 ppl from each tier then that's more than enough support!

 

[7*Red]

Nacl not broken. Annoying, but not broken.
Volc is a little too strong, I feel. There's not much that can properly check it, given the variety of sets it carries.
Shed Tail isn't inherently broken, but it's wholly unhealthy. If I can get simple wins with a garbage team because of Shed Tail plays, then it's probably better off gone.

And by garbage team, I mean this: https://pokepast.es/024078096c3577df

* Admits something isn't broken but proceeds to call it 'unhealthy' (whatever the heck that's supposed to mean)
* Posts a painfully random 5 + Worm with no replays and refuses to elaborate. The fact that you're using Choice Scarf Breloom, on HO no less, speaks for itself.

Why even bother ...?

 

[Lectrys]

While we're on the topic of post-HOME mons, Showdown's Tours Plaza room held a post-HOME-OU-simulating tournament, and I found this mon to be quite underrated in it:


Samurott-Hisui @ Choice Band
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Sacred Sword

Samurott-H's Water/Dark typing lets it switch into a surprisingly high percentage of the meta. It resists and/or is immune to the STABs of Gholdengo, Skeledirge, Kingambit, Heatran, Greninja, Volcanion, Hoopa-U, Dondozo, Chien-Pao, and more, and it can dish out the hurt to those it switches into and outspeeds while often laying Spikes at the same time:

Calcs

252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Samurott-Hisui: 139-164 (43.3 - 51%) -- 5.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Samurott-Hisui: 115-136 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after trapping damage
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Samurott-Hisui: 141-166 (43.9 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 141-166 (43.9 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Samurott-Hisui: 147-173 (45.7 - 53.8%) -- 45.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Samurott-Hisui: 127-150 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 230-272 (71.6 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Samurott-Hisui: 161-190 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 156-186 (48.5 - 57.9%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 298-352 (92.8 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 458-542 (118.6 - 140.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Samurott-Hisui Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 314-372 (99.6 - 118%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 312-368 (82.5 - 97.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness burned Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 208-246 (50.6 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Sacred Sword vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 660-780 (178.8 - 211.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 205-243 (55.5 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 178-211 (59.1 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 315-372 (104.3 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Samurott-H gets access to Swords Dance, Taunt, and Knock Off for messing with bulkier mons, and it also gets access to Aqua Jet for further harassing offence. Samurott-H has to balance carefully between outspeeding all non-Scarf Gholdengo variants and having enough bulk to get 3HKOed by Specs Greninja Hydro Pump, though.

I misplayed Samurott-H against Dondozo (also missed Ceaseless Edge twice in a row that tour) and it got Body Pressed into oblivion, but Samurott-H partners with Enamorus really well due to switching into a lot if not all of its checks, and I might be able to get away with no Stealth Rock setter in my team! (I want to abuse both Enamorus and Hoopa-U, I need to check opposing Enamorus/etc. with defensive Gholdengo, Great Tusk will still likely be the best hazards remover and now it needs STAB/anti-Enamorus/Knock Off...)

 

[SpritePony]

Honestly, I don't see anything bad in Frosmoth getting some wins because of Shed Tail. That's not a good argument at all to ban something (especially since in OST I swept with Frosmoth a game without Shed Tail, so it's actually an usable Mon).

It isn't even just Frosmoth. I chose Frosmoth as a sort of meme alt to Volc, but people are heavily unfavorable toward the duck and calling Gastro bad. Thus, the team must be garbage, lol. Frosmoth also doesn't always get passed to, it's either Moth, Dirge, or Breloom that usually gets passed to.

* Admits something isn't broken but proceeds to call it 'unhealthy' (whatever the heck that's supposed to mean)
* Posts a painfully random 5 + Worm with no replays and refuses to elaborate. The fact that you're using Choice Scarf Breloom, on HO no less, speaks for itself.

Why even bother ...?

The point is that I literally slapped together a meme team that gets wins because of Shed Tail. Unhealthy doesn't inherently mean broken. Unhealthy means problematic without it being omnipresent. It puts you into an advantageous state without costing you much of anything.

Shed Tail vs U-Turn/Volt Switch:
Shed Tail: Costs half of your HP to pass a 25% HP Substitute to ANY Pokemon on your team at any time (assuming you have the HP to use it first.) Free SubPassing without needing to directly interact with the opposing Pokemon, which means unless they commit to smacking you for damage, you get into a far better board state than them. Only stoppable by taking too much damage, or by being Taunted. (Not much carries Taunt right now.)
U-Turn: Direct contact with the opposing Pokemon to switch. Stoppable by Protect. Activates abilities and items like Rocky Helmet, Rough Skin, Static, Flame Body, Red Card, etc.
Volt Switch: Non-direct damage to the opposing Pokemon to switch. Stoppable by Protect, Lightning Rod, Volt Absorb, and Ground types. Doesn't activate most things that U-Turn does, except for Red Card.

Shed Tail is very much a major upgrade to VoltTurn right now. The fact that it doesn't need to interact with the opponent to pass off, and doesn't activate anything on the opponent's side while giving you a Substitute to a good setup Pokemon or check/response Pokemon to take a free hit or two (not counting Infiltrator, Multi-hit moves, or Sound based moves) is a HUGE advantage. Especially if you haven't committed your Tera yet. The only true ways to stop it are denting Orth so hard its Sitrus Berry can't restore it to 50%+ (or OHKOing it), or Taunting it. However, as stated above, not many Pokemon are carrying Taunt right now. It's like... I can only think of 2 Pokemon off the top of my head that I remember/have seen carrying Taunt recently; Grimmsnarl and some variants of Corviknight. There's a third I've ran into but I can't remember what it is.

"Buh Orthworm is so bad! It can only get one per game!"
Not if you have a brain to play it well. With Pokemon like Garchomp, Ting-Lu, and Great Tusk running around, it isn't hard to swap it in for a free Earth Eater activation and either Shed Tail immediately (if it isn't a Tusk/Mix Chomp), or double out into something else on a predicted play. I've had a couple of games where I've gotten THREE Shed Tails off of a single Orthworm before because of this.

Shed Tail is cheesy as all hell, even if it may be a fun time to just swap around for a bit until you get to the point of "IT'S TIME!" and you pass into your meme Pokemon. It absolutely feels like one of "PIMPNITE"'s Magikarp sweep videos with a Baton Pass chain. But hey, what do I know? I use bad Pokemon regularly on teams, and sit around 1300-1500 on ladder from not playing much.

 

[Mikegengsta]

It isn't even just Frosmoth. I chose Frosmoth as a sort of meme alt to Volc, but people are heavily unfavorable toward the duck and calling Gastro bad. Thus, the team must be garbage, lol. Frosmoth also doesn't always get passed to, it's either Moth, Dirge, or Breloom that usually gets passed to.


The point is that I literally slapped together a meme team that gets wins because of Shed Tail. Unhealthy doesn't inherently mean broken. Unhealthy means problematic without it being omnipresent. It puts you into an advantageous state without costing you much of anything.

Shed Tail vs U-Turn/Volt Switch:
Shed Tail: Costs half of your HP to pass a 25% HP Substitute to ANY Pokemon on your team at any time (assuming you have the HP to use it first.) Free SubPassing without needing to directly interact with the opposing Pokemon, which means unless they commit to smacking you for damage, you get into a far better board state than them. Only stoppable by taking too much damage, or by being Taunted. (Not much carries Taunt right now.)
U-Turn: Direct contact with the opposing Pokemon to switch. Stoppable by Protect. Activates abilities and items like Rocky Helmet, Rough Skin, Static, Flame Body, Red Card, etc.
Volt Switch: Non-direct damage to the opposing Pokemon to switch. Stoppable by Protect, Lightning Rod, Volt Absorb, and Ground types. Doesn't activate most things that U-Turn does, except for Red Card.

Shed Tail is very much a major upgrade to VoltTurn right now. The fact that it doesn't need to interact with the opponent to pass off, and doesn't activate anything on the opponent's side while giving you a Substitute to a good setup Pokemon or check/response Pokemon to take a free hit or two (not counting Infiltrator, Multi-hit moves, or Sound based moves) is a HUGE advantage. Especially if you haven't committed your Tera yet. The only true ways to stop it are denting Orth so hard its Sitrus Berry can't restore it to 50%+ (or OHKOing it), or Taunting it. However, as stated above, not many Pokemon are carrying Taunt right now. It's like... I can only think of 2 Pokemon off the top of my head that I remember/have seen carrying Taunt recently; Grimmsnarl and some variants of Corviknight. There's a third I've ran into but I can't remember what it is.

"Buh Orthworm is so bad! It can only get one per game!"
Not if you have a brain to play it well. With Pokemon like Garchomp, Ting-Lu, and Great Tusk running around, it isn't hard to swap it in for a free Earth Eater activation and either Shed Tail immediately (if it isn't a Tusk/Mix Chomp), or double out into something else on a predicted play. I've had a couple of games where I've gotten THREE Shed Tails off of a single Orthworm before because of this.

Shed Tail is cheesy as all hell, even if it may be a fun time to just swap around for a bit until you get to the point of "IT'S TIME!" and you pass into your meme Pokemon. It absolutely feels like one of "PIMPNITE"'s Magikarp sweep videos with a Baton Pass chain. But hey, what do I know? I use bad Pokemon regularly on teams, and sit around 1300-1500 on ladder from not playing much.

I honestly despise shed tail. Players tend to sac something of theirs to get in orthworm for free while you switch or contend with the shed tail and it’s a freebie. Even though they may sac one mon, you could be saccing one or more especially if it’s a dragonite or volcarona. This is why I’m forced to tera fighting great tusk so it doesn’t go off even with sitrus berry. Get rid of shed tail imo.

 

[awyp]

I'm not going to lie I don't think Shed Tail is currently a problem but it's only as broken as what it passes its subs off to. Like Orthoworm was UU up until the Cyclizar ban lets be real it didn't become OU just because of it's defensive capability or even it's ability or utility purposes it became purely OU because people want to be continue spamming screens HO. As I said in a previous post it should be eventually be suspected.

 

[7*Red]

I'm not going to lie I don't think Shed Tail is currently a problem but it's only as broken as what it passes its subs off to. Like Orthoworm was UU up until the Cyclizar ban lets be real it didn't become OU just because of it's defensive capability or even it's ability or utility purposes it became purely OU because people want to be continue spamming screens HO. As I said in a previous post it should be eventually be suspected.

You say that like screens HO or any HO at all is a problem. I think it deserves as much respect as any other play style like stall for eg. Just because most of the work with HO is done when building it's not inherently inferior or unhealthy.

 

[awyp]

You say that like screens HO or any HO at all is a problem. I think it deserves as much respect as any other play style like stall for eg. Just because most of the work with HO is done when building it's not inherently inferior or unhealthy.

Nope that's not what I said but most mons that have been on the radar or banned into ubers were offensive mons so if you're Shed Tail passing (Ortho / Cyclizar) + Grimm + (Chi-Yu, Espathra, Chien Pao, Ape) it's meant to abuse mons that are far superior than the rest in terms of offensive capability. But carry on.

 

[DiscoDucky]

You say that like screens HO or any HO at all is a problem. I think it deserves as much respect as any other play style like stall for eg. Just because most of the work with HO is done when building it's not inherently inferior or unhealthy.

Viet's post didn't read as a negative view towards HO. They're just stating a fact about why Orth is OU in the first place. You're reading too much into it, and that's coming from someone who primarily focuses on abusing Screens HO since Gen 5 (s/o to the banned Psychotic)

With that said, the Grimm + Orth screens sequence feels too linear to me for it to be a sustainable Screens HO playstyle. The opportunity cost of burning 1-2 turns to screens (Grimm set + Parting Shot + Orth Shed Tail) AND losing offensive coverage by opting for Orthworm is very high. From a theoretical standpoint, you can overcome this opportunity cost if the other four offensive Pokémon (in any sequence) is enough to fully break most OU threats. We have a decent amount of unhealthy elements in OU itself that makes 4-mon coverage (including edge cases like Ditto and Unaware Pokemon) extremely feasible. These reasons also reinforces my opinion that Shed Tail should be a lower priority action item in terms of OU balancing.

With that said, a lot of my teams that I slapped together are running Hax because there are just too many Unaware Pokémon of varying types. I'm also testing how well Venomoth and Lilligant would work in Screens HO at the OU level. QD + Sleep Powder is a pretty powerful combination IMO, especially since Sleep Powder makes the game more of a 5v5 situation rather than a 6 v 5 (I don't count the Screens setter as a real Pokemon). I'll let you know what I find out from testing

 

[RoyalDispenser]

Viet's post didn't read as a negative view towards HO. They're just stating a fact about why Orth is OU in the first place. You're reading too much into it, and that's coming from someone who primarily focuses on abusing Screens HO since Gen 5 (s/o to the banned Psychotic)

With that said, the Grimm + Orth screens sequence feels too linear to me for it to be a sustainable Screens HO playstyle. The opportunity cost of burning 1-2 turns to screens (Grimm set + Parting Shot + Orth Shed Tail) AND losing offensive coverage by opting for Orthworm is very high. From a theoretical standpoint, you can overcome this opportunity cost if the other four offensive Pokémon (in any sequence) is enough to fully break most OU threats. We have a decent amount of unhealthy elements in OU itself that makes 4-mon coverage (including edge cases like Ditto and Unaware Pokemon) extremely feasible. These reasons also reinforces my opinion that Shed Tail should be a lower priority action item in terms of OU balancing.

With that said, a lot of my teams that I slapped together are running Hax because there are just too many Unaware Pokémon of varying types. I'm also testing how well Venomoth and Lilligant would work in Screens HO at the OU level. QD + Sleep Powder is a pretty powerful combination IMO, especially since Sleep Powder makes the game more of a 5v5 situation rather than a 6 v 5 (I don't count the Screens setter as a real Pokemon). I'll let you know what I find out from testing

Might as well give vivillon a chance too.

Compound eyes sleep powder is more reliable than veno's 75% accuracy, and they basically have the same offensive stats (90SpA/90Spe with veno, 90SpA/89Spe Viv). Vivillon is frailer and lacks tinted lens but if the strat is going to work with veno it does need to hit those sleeps and it likely will need to hit a few of them.

 

[ant4456]

Idk why it hasn't been implemented sooner.

We've had and offered concepts of split ladders for various mechanics (at one point there was even a split stealth rocks/scald ladder), considering how controversial tera is as a concept, you'd think that would be attempted as a 'everyone wins' solution, or alternatively it acts as a proper suspect ladder showing what the game would be like without tera (which IMO is why the tera suspect was poorly done cause everyone was pure theorymon on what banning it would do.)

The only problem would be lower tiers choosing which is the official ruleset since its pretty much a cointoss on which ladder they tier by.

People asked for a Tera Ladder and it was denied, so I don't have much hope for it being implemented in either direction

 

[Mega Breloom]

Maybe the results were the friends we made all along.

 

[SpritePony]

I honestly despise shed tail. Players tend to sac something of theirs to get in orthworm for free while you switch or contend with the shed tail and it’s a freebie. Even though they may sac one mon, you could be saccing one or more especially if it’s a dragonite or volcarona. This is why I’m forced to tera fighting great tusk so it doesn’t go off even with sitrus berry. Get rid of shed tail imo.

I actually never have to sack anything to get Orth in for free, I just sort of enjoy playing around scaring things out and doubling to get into a favorable Orth switch. But yes, I agree with your sentiments.

I'm not going to lie I don't think Shed Tail is currently a problem but it's only as broken as what it passes its subs off to. Like Orthoworm was UU up until the Cyclizar ban lets be real it didn't become OU just because of it's defensive capability or even it's ability or utility purposes it became purely OU because people want to be continue spamming screens HO. As I said in a previous post it should be eventually be suspected.

Pretty much this, too; The ONLY reason Orth is even in OU is because of Shed Tail alone. If Shed Tail didn't exist, Orth would be RU or lower, guaranteed. The only things it really brings to the table are pure Steel typing, Ground immunity, a hefty Defense stat, and Hazards. No hazard control, no reliable recovery, no real or meaningful way to apply pressure. (Seriously, Dengo just sort of sits on this thing 1v1. Even Pelipper sits on it.)

 

[1LDK]

Maybe the results were the friends we made all along.

The Survey results are in
they said that
THE ONE PIECE
THE ONE PIECE IS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAALLLL
CAN WE GET MUCH HIGHER) (SO HIGH)
OH OOOOOHH OOOOOOH


Speaking of the one piece meme, I wanna ask how you guys feel that Kingambit´s place in the metagame is gonna change with HOME, do you guys think that he is gonna become more tera dependent or +2 sucker punch is still gonna be nuts

 

[SpritePony]

The Survey results are in
they said that
THE ONE PIECE
THE ONE PIECE IS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAALLLL
CAN WE GET MUCH HIGHER) (SO HIGH)
OH OOOOOHH OOOOOOH


Speaking of the one piece meme, I wanna ask how you guys feel that Kingambit´s place in the metagame is gonna change with HOME, do you guys think that he is gonna become more tera dependent or +2 sucker punch is still gonna be nuts

Kingambit is still going to be a stupid mon to deal with, imo. Supreme Overlord is a crazy ability, even if it is only like 1.2x boost per lost ally.

 

[awyp]

The Survey results are in
they said that
THE ONE PIECE
THE ONE PIECE IS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAALLLL
CAN WE GET MUCH HIGHER) (SO HIGH)
OH OOOOOHH OOOOOOH


Speaking of the one piece meme, I wanna ask how you guys feel that Kingambit´s place in the metagame is gonna change with HOME, do you guys think that he is gonna become more tera dependent or +2 sucker punch is still gonna be nuts

Kingambit is great, I don't think it is overwhelming because it loses out on speed and its natural type makes it weak to 4x fighting and Idk if you want to tera Kingambit every game over other users, I think it's perfectly balanced; now if it gained Knock Off...that would be a different story. I think Kingambit will stay OU in the foreseeable future regardless of HOME bringing more mons (IMO)

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Pretty much this, too; The ONLY reason Orth is even in OU is because of Shed Tail alone. If Shed Tail didn't exist, Orth would be RU or lower, guaranteed. The only things it really brings to the table are pure Steel typing, Ground immunity, a hefty Defense stat, and Hazards. No hazard control, no reliable recovery, no real or meaningful way to apply pressure. (Seriously, Dengo just sort of sits on this thing 1v1. Even Pelipper sits on it.)

orth drops to untiered without shed tail, it's an unmon without it. it's a sign of brokenness on shed tail's part that both of the mons that get it are straight garbage outside of it but are serious problems with it. honestly, i don't know why we're even still having this discussion; shed tail's been a problem since day 1. hell, people could tell it would be a problem since the first trailer we saw it in. what is this move still doing here?

 

[Beaf Cultist]

orth drops to untiered without shed tail, it's an unmon without it.

completely untrue btw. mon would be a top tier steel in RU

 

[Jerdor]

Outside of Great Tusk how do you deal with Kingambit?

 

[1LDK]

Other fighting types like Breloom, valiant, etc
WoW users like Rotom, Volcarona
ground types

all this can fail with tera, but its playable