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VGC 2023 Metagame Discussion: Regulation C
- Thread starter zee
- Start date
Definitely. I think both are viable depending on what typing you need. It has a great movepool and ability! Its sets are flexible, as well as the opposite Tera Type (Fire to Water and vice versa) to catch people off-guard. It's hard to account for both at the same time. I don't know much about Mimi Bax but I have seen Tauros on there.
Improved Speed Tiers
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SuJe5zEjSHWNGhJFrWn82EdeL33HJtp73O7LJa7pUpk/edit?usp=sharing
Any feedback is appreciated.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SuJe5zEjSHWNGhJFrWn82EdeL33HJtp73O7LJa7pUpk/edit?usp=sharing
Any feedback is appreciated.
Yesterday, I managed to reach 84 on cartridge--all thanks to my Ceruledge team. Since Ceruledge performed incredibly well, carrying my team many times, I figured I could start a discussion about Ceruledge's viability in series 2. I honestly believe it is an underrated Pokémon that can be very useful on the right team, putting pressure on a lot of metagame relevant Pokémon, such as Flutter Mane, Iron Hands, and QD Volcarona, to name a few.
Now, what makes Ceruledge different from Annihilape and how can it be justified on a team? I mention Annihilape because the two of them are very similar to each other: Both are set-up Pokémon that try to overwhelm opponents and have an offensive recovery move. If Terastallization is taken into account, Annihilape can check many of the Pokémon that Ceruledge naturally check, such as Fire and Fairy.
Below, I will briefly try justifying Ceruledge's place on a team:
a) Ceruledge has a great resistance profile, allowing it to do well against Iron Hands, Sylveon, Amoonguss, and, most importantly, Fire Pokémon, such as Arcanine, Armarouge, Volcarona, and Torkoal. In the case of Armarouge, you need Tera Dark to check it but in any other cases, you usually don’t need to rely on Terastallization.
b) Therefore, unlike Annihilape, Ceruledge isn’t too reliant on the game mechanic to get around and check common threats better. This flexibility is important because it means you are more likely to use Terastallization on another Pokémon.
c) Another important aspect of Ceruledge is its revenge potential thanks to Shadow Sneak. Even if you don’t manage to take out a fast Pokémon with Bitter Blade, Shadow Sneak is guaranteed to do that (assuming, the target is within its range). This move alone can force opponents into an awkward situation where they have to scout this move or switch out their Pokémon. This is something you can exploit as a player, and it gives you much more room for plays to defeat your opponent.
What are your thoughts on Ceruledge? Perhaps, you even have experience with it? For those who are curious, this is the Ceruledge set I've been running: https://pokepast.es/1c227e7d31d5c932
Now, what makes Ceruledge different from Annihilape and how can it be justified on a team? I mention Annihilape because the two of them are very similar to each other: Both are set-up Pokémon that try to overwhelm opponents and have an offensive recovery move. If Terastallization is taken into account, Annihilape can check many of the Pokémon that Ceruledge naturally check, such as Fire and Fairy.
Below, I will briefly try justifying Ceruledge's place on a team:
a) Ceruledge has a great resistance profile, allowing it to do well against Iron Hands, Sylveon, Amoonguss, and, most importantly, Fire Pokémon, such as Arcanine, Armarouge, Volcarona, and Torkoal. In the case of Armarouge, you need Tera Dark to check it but in any other cases, you usually don’t need to rely on Terastallization.
b) Therefore, unlike Annihilape, Ceruledge isn’t too reliant on the game mechanic to get around and check common threats better. This flexibility is important because it means you are more likely to use Terastallization on another Pokémon.
c) Another important aspect of Ceruledge is its revenge potential thanks to Shadow Sneak. Even if you don’t manage to take out a fast Pokémon with Bitter Blade, Shadow Sneak is guaranteed to do that (assuming, the target is within its range). This move alone can force opponents into an awkward situation where they have to scout this move or switch out their Pokémon. This is something you can exploit as a player, and it gives you much more room for plays to defeat your opponent.
What are your thoughts on Ceruledge? Perhaps, you even have experience with it? For those who are curious, this is the Ceruledge set I've been running: https://pokepast.es/1c227e7d31d5c932
think this more serves for any active discussion? but there's a live chat in the showdown app. the vgc series 2 viability rankings and team dumps forums are updated with recent info
CHANSEY STONKS
https://pokepast.es/77ad5333e425d20f
I was bored so I made a chansey team. And It's actually good.
Feel free to make any changes. :)
Notes-
I feel like TR could go well here since Iron Hands and Chansey are really slow.
You can replace the Mausape with Donsugiri. I don't mind :)
https://pokepast.es/77ad5333e425d20f
I was bored so I made a chansey team. And It's actually good.
Feel free to make any changes. :)
Notes-
I feel like TR could go well here since Iron Hands and Chansey are really slow.
You can replace the Mausape with Donsugiri. I don't mind :)
Smogon’s bread and butter is 6 v 6 singles. The VGC section never has the same traffic sadly
sadge
Eeveon edit: We're working on a lot of cool stuff behind the scenes, hopefully it'll make our forums a bit more lively and interactive :)
Last edited by a moderator:
Was bored so decided to theorymon for the home metagame.
If you want a Fighting type that works well on Trick Room, use Iron Hands. Triple Arrows is an awesome move, but that's all it has.
Might have a small niche, as Scarf Eruption is very strong. Faces stiff competition from Chi-Yu which hits harder, but it doesn't cut your partner's SpDef and is immune to Fake Out without Tera.
Not that fast, powerful or bulky. Between Palafin and Iron Bundle, there's little reason to use this.
Adaptability Last Respects will be very strong, could also be a strong late game cleaner with Swift Swim. Will we see Revival Blessing teams using this with stuff like Supreme Overlord Kingambit?
Having to use Hydro Pump for Water STAB sucks, but unlike its male forme it doesn't care about Intimidate. Don't think it's as good as its male forme, but could still be solid.
Stealth Rock is something most teams just don't have space for, and having a Sharpness boosted STAB attack that sets it up could be useful to break Sashes and stuff. Still has meh speed, good but not amazing bulk and typing doesn't resist much. Might be decent.
Outclassed as a Swift Swimmer, outclassed as an Intimidator, I can't see this thing being very good. Especially since we're getting Landorus-T back as well...
Trades 20 Speed and 10 HP for +30 defence. A very good deal. Beats a lot of threatening stuff like Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle and Palafin, Sap Sipper gives you a Trick Room attacker that doesn't care about Amoongus. This is the Pokemon Goodra always should've been. I can see this thing being very good.
Completely outclassed by Regieleki.
Yay another genie...Faces stiff competition from Flutter Mane, which is much quicker, but Enamorus has better physical bulk and has a move Flutter would kill for in Earth Power, giving it incredible coverage. It can also go physical with Contrary and Superpower. The genies of healthy meta are back.
Therian loses a whopping 60 points in Speed, but gets +40 in def and +20 in spd so fair trade off. I think she'll be more niche than Incarnate, as that Speed more or less requires Trick Room (could be a nice anti Trick Room mon though). Overcoat means she doesn't care about Amoongus, only fearing the rare Sludge Bomb (even then Tera Steel is an option). Can see her being a staple on Trick Room teams.
I think this will be better in Singles than VGC. On paper it can check the treasures of ruin pretty well, but in practice they all have ways around it. Unburden would be a lot better if we had better Terrain setters, but we don't (maybe Normal Gem Fake Out?).
Scarf sets could be decent, as it outruns Iron Bundle, Flutter Mane, Chi Yu and Chien Pao (if the former 2 haven't used Booster Energy) and OHKOes all of them. Recoil free Flare Blitz and Head Smash is very nice. Doesn't bring much to your team defensively with its 2 4X weaknesses, but Tera Grass turns them into resistances. Don't think it'll be a top threat or anything, but not something to take lightly.
Tinted Lens Esper Wing sounds cool, but it's still too slow even at +1. While it can abuse Trick Room fairly well, it can't set it, and is outclassed at that by Enamorus-T. Can't see a reason to use this, tbh.
It actually could be a nice lead, disguise it as something that draws Fake Out and you could pull some nice mind games. Go for Fake Out and risk it going into an immunity, or don't and risk giving the support Pokemon free reign to set up. That said, all the treasures of ruin make it cry.
Victory Dance is good, and with Tera Fire you lose your Fire, Ice and Fairy weaknesses. Hustle gives it amazing power, but every attack you use becomes Stone Edge. Could also run After You Chlorophyll support sets with Torkoal, as it's much quicker than its Unovan forme.
140 base Attack, massive bulk (bulkier than Hippowdon) and Guts make this thing an absolute monster. It needs Trick Room support to perform at its best (though like Enamorus-T it could also be a nice anti Trick Room mon), but if you can supply that it will wreck. Soon as Home comes out, I'm building a Trick Room team with this beast.
Wow, they actually found a way to make Avalugg even worse. If this thing wins Worlds, I will dye my hair pink and get a Nickleback chest tattoo.
Offering both Trick Room and Intimidate on the same Pokemon is something nothing else can do, and being a Psychic type not weak to Ghost helps too. Skill Swap + Intimidate could be fun too. Like H-Zoroark though, all the treasures of ruin make it cry.
Extreme speed > snarl
Was bored so decided to theorymon for the home metagame.
If you want a Fighting type that works well on Trick Room, use Iron Hands. Triple Arrows is an awesome move, but that's all it has.
Might have a small niche, as Scarf Eruption is very strong. Faces stiff competition from Chi-Yu which hits harder, but it doesn't cut your partner's SpDef and is immune to Fake Out without Tera.
Not that fast, powerful or bulky. Between Palafin and Iron Bundle, there's little reason to use this.
Adaptability Last Respects will be very strong, could also be a strong late game cleaner with Swift Swim. Will we see Revival Blessing teams using this with stuff like Supreme Overlord Kingambit?
Having to use Hydro Pump for Water STAB sucks, but unlike its male forme it doesn't care about Intimidate. Don't think it's as good as its male forme, but could still be solid.
Stealth Rock is something most teams just don't have space for, and having a Sharpness boosted STAB attack that sets it up could be useful to break Sashes and stuff. Still has meh speed, good but not amazing bulk and typing doesn't resist much. Might be decent.
Outclassed as a Swift Swimmer, outclassed as an Intimidator, I can't see this thing being very good. Especially since we're getting Landorus-T back as well...
Trades 20 Speed and 10 HP for +30 defence. A very good deal. Beats a lot of threatening stuff like Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle and Palafin, Sap Sipper gives you a Trick Room attacker that doesn't care about Amoongus. This is the Pokemon Goodra always should've been. I can see this thing being very good.
Completely outclassed by Regieleki.
Yay another genie...Faces stiff competition from Flutter Mane, which is much quicker, but Enamorus has better physical bulk and has a move Flutter would kill for in Earth Power, giving it incredible coverage. It can also go physical with Contrary and Superpower. The genies of healthy meta are back.
Therian loses a whopping 60 points in Speed, but gets +40 in def and +20 in spd so fair trade off. I think she'll be more niche than Incarnate, as that Speed more or less requires Trick Room (could be a nice anti Trick Room mon though). Overcoat means she doesn't care about Amoongus, only fearing the rare Sludge Bomb (even then Tera Steel is an option). Can see her being a staple on Trick Room teams.
I think this will be better in Singles than VGC. On paper it can check the treasures of ruin pretty well, but in practice they all have ways around it. Unburden would be a lot better if we had better Terrain setters, but we don't (maybe Normal Gem Fake Out?).
Scarf sets could be decent, as it outruns Iron Bundle, Flutter Mane, Chi Yu and Chien Pao (if the former 2 haven't used Booster Energy) and OHKOes all of them. Recoil free Flare Blitz and Head Smash is very nice. Doesn't bring much to your team defensively with its 2 4X weaknesses, but Tera Grass turns them into resistances. Don't think it'll be a top threat or anything, but not something to take lightly.
Tinted Lens Esper Wing sounds cool, but it's still too slow even at +1. While it can abuse Trick Room fairly well, it can't set it, and is outclassed at that by Enamorus-T. Can't see a reason to use this, tbh.
It actually could be a nice lead, disguise it as something that draws Fake Out and you could pull some nice mind games. Go for Fake Out and risk it going into an immunity, or don't and risk giving the support Pokemon free reign to set up. That said, all the treasures of ruin make it cry.
Victory Dance is good, and with Tera Fire you lose your Fire, Ice and Fairy weaknesses. Hustle gives it amazing power, but every attack you use becomes Stone Edge. Could also run After You Chlorophyll support sets with Torkoal, as it's much quicker than its Unovan forme.
140 base Attack, massive bulk (bulkier than Hippowdon) and Guts make this thing an absolute monster. It needs Trick Room support to perform at its best (though like Enamorus-T it could also be a nice anti Trick Room mon), but if you can supply that it will wreck. Soon as Home comes out, I'm building a Trick Room team with this beast.
Wow, they actually found a way to make Avalugg even worse. If this thing wins Worlds, I will dye my hair pink and get a Nickleback chest tattoo.
Offering both Trick Room and Intimidate on the same Pokemon is something nothing else can do, and being a Psychic type not weak to Ghost helps too. Skill Swap + Intimidate could be fun too. Like H-Zoroark though, all the treasures of ruin make it cry.
I've actually already made a team idea for the HOME Meta (assuming it's Official Rules 1 from Link Battles).
@ Life Orb
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snarl
- Dark Pulse
- Heat Wave
- Protect
Standard Offensive Chi-yu, Tera Ghost is to block fake out and ESpeed (although Sucker Punch will give it a hard time).
@ Covert Cloak
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 4 SpA / 44 SpD / 76 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Icy Wind
- Sunny Day
- Tailwind
- Taunt
A big part of the team. Has Sunny Day for helping out Walking Wake, Icy Wind and TWind for Speed Control, and taunt to disrupt other Tornadus/TR setters. It has Tera Dark to block other Tornadus' taunts and Covert to Block fake out flinch. It's EVed with enough speed to outspeed booster bundle with the rest being invested in bulk.
@ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Jaw Lock
- Acrobatics
- Dragon Claw
Old Roaring Moon set I used in series 2. Tera Flying Boosts Acrobatics, and booster energy makes it stronger. That's it.
@ Assault Vest
Ability: Contrary
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 28 SpD / 228 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
Contrary Enamorus set. Superpower to boost it's attack and defense more (Tera Fighting to make Superpower even stronger). Play Rough for STAB, Zen Headbutt for Coverage, and Iron head as filler. EVed to at least outspeed booster bundle
@ Mystic Water
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snarl
- Protect
- Hydro Steam
- Flamethrower
This functions as an offensive mon with a tad bit of support. Works well with Chi-yu and Tornadus. Snarl can also debuff those who threaten it.
@ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Effect Spore
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Foul Play
- Clear Smog
Just a Standard Amoonguss set to help get TWind/Sunny day up, or to disrupt other.
I've actually already made a team idea for the HOME Meta (assuming it's Official Rules 1 from Link Battles).
@ Life Orb
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snarl
- Dark Pulse
- Heat Wave
- Protect
Standard Offensive Chi-yu, Tera Ghost is to block fake out and ESpeed (although Sucker Punch will give it a hard time).
@ Covert Cloak
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 4 SpA / 44 SpD / 76 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Icy Wind
- Sunny Day
- Tailwind
- Taunt
A big part of the team. Has Sunny Day for helping out Walking Wake, Icy Wind and TWind for Speed Control, and taunt to disrupt other Tornadus/TR setters. It has Tera Dark to block other Tornadus' taunts and Covert to Block fake out flinch. It's EVed with enough speed to outspeed booster bundle with the rest being invested in bulk.
@ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Jaw Lock
- Acrobatics
- Dragon Claw
Old Roaring Moon set I used in series 2. Tera Flying Boosts Acrobatics, and booster energy makes it stronger. That's it.
@ Assault Vest
Ability: Contrary
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 28 SpD / 228 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
Contrary Enamorus set. Superpower to boost it's attack and defense more (Tera Fighting to make Superpower even stronger). Play Rough for STAB, Zen Headbutt for Coverage, and Iron head as filler. EVed to at least outspeed booster bundle
@ Mystic Water
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snarl
- Protect
- Hydro Steam
- Flamethrower
This functions as an offensive mon with a tad bit of support. Works well with Chi-yu and Tornadus. Snarl can also debuff those who threaten it.
@ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Effect Spore
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Foul Play
- Clear Smog
Just a Standard Amoonguss set to help get TWind/Sunny day up, or to disrupt other.
Nice team! Had a go myself making a hard Trick Room team.
Ursaluna @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Level: 50
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 140 HP / 236 Atk / 132 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Protect
- Facade
- Headlong Rush
- Earthquake
EVs let you survive Iron Bundle's Hydro Pump from full HP, with the rest in Attack for more power. Tera Normal lets you shed your Water, Grass and Ice weaknesses and jack's Facade's power through the stratosphere.
236+ Atk Guts Normal Tera Type Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tablets of Ruin Wo-Chien: 148-176 (77 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Amoonguss @ Occa Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 220 HP / 76 Def / 212 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Spore
- Rage Powder
- Pollen Puff
- Clear Smog
Standard Amoonguss set, Clear Smog is for Dondozo. EVs let it avoid a 2hko from Specs Flutter Mane's Shadow Ball. Occa Berry lets it live an Overheat from Life Orb Chi-Yu.
Enamorus-T @ Life Orb
Ability: Overcoat
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Springtide Storm
- Protect
The other main sweeper on my team, Enamorus's goal is just to wreck stuff with its Fairy STAB. Tera Fairy sheds its Rock, Ice and Electric weaknesses and jacks up its STAB to massive levels.
Farigaraf @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Armor Tail
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 180 HP / 92 Def / 236 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Imprison
- Protect
- Dazzling Gleam
Of course you can't have a Trick Room team without something to set up Trick Room. EVs let it survive a Dark Pulse from non Life Orb Chi-Yu and max HP Annihilape's Final Gambit with the rest in Def. Imprison + Protect lets Farigaraf block both Fake Out and Protect, as well as stops opponent un-setting my Trick Room with their own.
Armarouge @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Heat Wave
- Energy Ball
- Aura Sphere
Standard Armarouge set. Covert Cloak lets me block Fake Out flinches and Snarl SpA drops from Arcanine.
Iron Hands @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Level: 50
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Wild Charge
- Volt Switch
Again, standard Assault Vest Iron Hands set.