Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[ant4456]

With Tera, my personal leaning is Tera Preview + No STAB Tera, but I know a lot of people may dislike that (and some dislike the idea of doing anything except Unban/Ban I know), but IDK

To me it just removes the two worst parts of Tera while keeping the part that is worth having. And even among the "Mons Broken By Tera", this lowers that potential number by quite a bit.

My opinion is still largely this, though I would also be down for

Tera Preview + Single Tera Limit

However, I don't think that option got a lot of support last time, so I'm not sure. A

Tera Preview IMO should just be a thing simply as Quality of Life. Not even necessarily a "nerf", just something that makes the game more competitive. A lot of the time you can start watching an SPL game and know what is likely, but this would still make it more consistent.

Single Limit Tera is the probably the best way to get rid of the already known problems, though I would still be worried about if people would simply use it for STAB Tera.

I can imagine the following (currently OU by usage) Pokemon that are majorly buffed by a new Tera Type using it on its own though:

-Dragonite
-Skeledirge
-Garganacl
-Gholdengo
-Roaring Moon
-Ceruledge
-Slowking
-Dondozo
-Volcarona
-Iron Moth
-Hydreigon

The following Pokemon I imagine would go STAB Tera (if they use it at all on most cores):

-Kingambit
-Baxcalibur
-Meowscarada
-Dragapult
-Zoroark
-Armarouge (this shit's still in OU by usage? am I missing something that it does?)

If anyone wants to essentially simulate a Tera Preview + Single Limit Tera User sort of Gen 9 OU, DM me / comment on my page / reply / whatever, I'm interested in trying it out (maybe a Discord? Or just setting it up individually) as I am genuinely very curious in seeing if this would be more fun.

 

[LoseToRU?]

This just means we aren’t acting immediately; the support isn’t on the level of prior things we have acted on. It’s an awkward state as the survey was conducted prior to the ban, and the metagame needs to react to the ban now.

I think those abysmal fun and comp scores might go up a point post-worm, but not by much.
Shed tail was clogging up high ladder with HO and was broken but it's far from the only reason.

Not sure if meta is just getting stale or people are shifting their opinions, but I can't see those scores rising drastically post worm ban.

Myself and others really appreciated that post where you went over the timeline of the council's work and efforts to make this meta enjoyable.
It was really helpful in a number of ways.

Can we ask for a bit of transparency for the council schedule for the next month or so?

As in, is the OU council going to have a summit soon to discuss the elephant in the room and form a game plan?

The vibe is that Home will drop mid-May, that's roughly 3-4 weeks from now.

We're very curious if and when a suspect will occur: before Home, during Home, 6 months post Home, etc.
Will there be a separate ladder, are we still doing the restriction thing or just a pure ban/no ban. is there any plan right now at all, etc.

Personally, I have no idea the best time to conduct it. If I had to pick I would say now, ASAP, before Home.

Home meta has the potential to be the worst month or so of mons ever lol. It's going to be a mess like new metas always are, but this one seems like a looming, insurmountable task for you and your council.

We will have some obvious QB, but not many.

Then we have the mons that will be let back in such as Pao to see if they're still broken.

The worst issue is the fine line between, "is this mon broken, or is this mon broken with the gimmick?" AKA, does the gimmick push this mon over the edge? Can it be checked with another gimmick, etc. That's so messy. I don't envy anyone trying to balance that.

It took us a long time to realize that Pao was barely on the other end of that line, with the dark variant pushing it out of OU.
There's going to be a lot more situations like that.

I'd rather it not take 9 months for us to realize that something like G-Molt is pushed over the edge w the gimmick

Besides the gimmick though, we're also curious on issues such as Last Respects- is there any actual reason not to QB this move day 1?
Is there a list of mons that will receive a day 1 QB?
Are banned mons dropping day 1 of Home, or slowly tested back in much later?

Any info about the council's timeline, thoughts, and preparation regarding Home would be much appreciated; thank you in advance.

 

[Finchinator]

Can we ask for a bit of transparency for the council schedule for the next month or so?

As in, is the OU council going to have a summit soon to discuss the elephant in the room and form a game plan?

The vibe is that Home will drop mid-May, that's roughly 3-4 weeks from now.

We're very curious if and when a suspect will occur: before Home, during Home, 6 months post Home, etc.
Will there be a separate ladder, are we still doing the restriction thing or just a pure ban/no ban. is there any plan right now at all, etc.

My fully transparent answer is I don’t know. I can’t plan without more information on the timeline. We are acting a bit more loosely, but not afraid to act. When we get more information and a date, we will attack Home with as much quickness and intensity as we did the initial release. That will be a turbulent stretch. Until then, we will continue to discuss things, but we have our hands tied mostly

 

[Red Raven]

Just to add a minor info to Finch's response, we don't have just Home to worry about either. I believe that we're gonna get the dlcs this year as well and the last one would be at winter. Unless the council moves faster than they did last generation, we might not have a mostly stable metagame until like half a year after the second dlc drops. I mean, even if we get a stable metagame, the dlc dropping on different dates would throw it all to hell anyway so I wouldn't count on getting that much stability until much later

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Just to add a minor info to Finch's response, we don't have just Home to worry about either. I believe that we're gonna get the dlcs this year as well and the last one would be at winter. Unless the council moves faster than they did last generation, we might not have a mostly stable metagame until like half a year after the second dlc drops. I mean, even if we get a stable metagame, the dlc dropping on different dates would throw it all to hell anyway so I wouldn't count on getting that much stability until much later

the council's been moving much faster this gen than it did last gen, so i wouldn't worry about the post-dlc2 meta taking as long to stabilize as crown tundra did. that said, we really shouldn't assume that home or dlc are ever coming until we get a concrete release date. as a general rule, anything that says "coming in spring" gets delayed, and that could factor into the release of the dlcs

 

[Red Raven]

the council's been moving much faster this gen than it did last gen, so i wouldn't worry about the post-dlc2 meta taking as long to stabilize as crown tundra did. that said, we really shouldn't assume that home or dlc are ever coming until we get a concrete release date. as a general rule, anything that says "coming in spring" gets delayed, and that could factor into the release of the dlcs

Fair enough. We didn't really get a stable crown tundra metagame until that little shit, Magearna, got banned. Though personally, I wouldn't count on things getting delayed. They released bdsp with like half a dozen bugs that break the game and sv with so many dumb glitches. Many gaming companies these days don't particularly care about their games' state upon release since they can always just "patch it" anyway and gamefreak, or whoever develops the pokemon games, seem to be joining the merry band. I don't even wanna count the number of games from major gaming companies that were very buggy upon release over the last four or five years

On the other hand, the council did move faster this generation so I guess maybe two or three months after the second dlc drops will be the earliest on when we get a stable metagame

 

[Magcargo]

Not going to comment on Tera since I don't feel particularly strongly in any direction towards the mechanic, but as a general question, why is the community so hell-bent on preserving Volcarona? This Pokemon has almost always been difficult to deal with in nearly every generation, espicially in Gen 8 onwards. Its been one of the most commonly cited reasons behind certain game mechanics being banned (Shed Tail, Gems) and was also a frequent example cited for why people thought HDB was busted in Gen 8. At what point does Volcarona become the problem and not the mechanics?

 

[KamenOH]

Not going to comment on Tera since I don't feel particularly strongly in any direction towards the mechanic, but as a general question, why is the community so hell-bent on preserving Volcarona? This Pokemon has almost always been difficult to deal with in nearly every generation, espicially in Gen 8 onwards. Its been one of the most commonly cited reasons behind certain game mechanics being banned (Shed Tail, Gems) and was also a frequent example cited for why people thought HDB was busted in Gen 8. At what point does Volcarona become the problem and not the mechanics?

I genuinely believe that people are mad over a strong offensive force existing without too many qualms. Its a good sweeper in the right hands, and unless you play stupid it generally has good matchups besides obvious resists and checks/counters. Offensive forces just seem to make people not happy, and i dont know why

 

[furyofyuriy]

Its been one of the most commonly cited reasons behind certain game mechanics being banned (Shed Tail, Gems) and was also a frequent example cited for why people thought HDB was busted in Gen 8. At what point does Volcarona become the problem and not the mechanics?

My best guess would honestly be because of it's quad SR weakness. The discourse with heavy duty boots was stupid, because basically someone would devote 1-4 turns of stacking hazards only for Volcarona to come in unscathed and people were salty. But I believe its BECAUSE so many people run HDB on the moth that they view it as a crutch needed for it to be good, which history has proven is not the case. It's incredibly strong and is the best abuser of quiver dance to exist in every generation that the move has existed, but in the back of players heads they keep thinking "4x weak to SR".

 

[Return to Zero]

Not going to comment on Tera since I don't feel particularly strongly in any direction towards the mechanic, but as a general question, why is the community so hell-bent on preserving Volcarona? This Pokemon has almost always been difficult to deal with in nearly every generation, espicially in Gen 8 onwards. Its been one of the most commonly cited reasons behind certain game mechanics being banned (Shed Tail, Gems) and was also a frequent example cited for why people thought HDB was busted in Gen 8. At what point does Volcarona become the problem and not the mechanics?

Because those mechanics weren't made broken by Volcarona and had other abusers. Latios and Cloyster were also extremely strong with Dragon and Ice/Rock Gems. Z-Moves are self-evident. Espathra, Chien-Pao, and Annihilape all got bumped up to Ubers in part because of Tera. Shed Tail benefits a lot of HO sweepers. All of these mechanics would have been busted or easily exploited by other mons, and Volcarona's nature as an all-or-nothing setup sweeper means that it gets more reward than most for being able to deny the enemy one turn. Gems were probably going to go either way, and Tera discourse won't go away if Volcarona does.

I also don't think it's as if everyone's intent on keeping it around. Volcarona's been on multiple surveys now and gotten scores around 3 each time. There is some support for a Volcarona suspect, just not enough apparently.

 

[RoyalDispenser]

Not going to comment on Tera since I don't feel particularly strongly in any direction towards the mechanic, but as a general question, why is the community so hell-bent on preserving Volcarona? This Pokemon has almost always been difficult to deal with in nearly every generation, espicially in Gen 8 onwards. Its been one of the most commonly cited reasons behind certain game mechanics being banned (Shed Tail, Gems) and was also a frequent example cited for why people thought HDB was busted in Gen 8. At what point does Volcarona become the problem and not the mechanics?

Every complaint about volc there is can be applied to something else in the current meta.

Volc genuinely isn't the best tera user, but that also makes it the most annoying tera user... keyword annoying.

How is that possible? Well picture this, you go tera ground volc to deal with tera fire kingambit... but now you suck vs. everything else. Or you go tera fairy to beat dragon types, now you're unable to break tera fire kingambit or tera bug ceruledge. You go tera grass for azumaril and dondozo with giga drain build, now you lose to other volcaronas and iron moth.. you go tera water and you cannot touch dragonite or dragapult.

This makes volcarona simultaneously have to pick the right coverage tera type, but also makes the opponent have to guess which type that is. It genuinely is matchup dependant and inconsistent, borderline shit, but its the fact that its unpredictable around which matchups it wants that makes it problematic. Sometimes just seeing it in team preview makes the opponent play super careful with their volc checks even tho the volc user knows it isn't going to do jack shit but mind game the opponent into being more passive or focus on the wrong wincon. That's where the frustration with volc is, if it wins it feels like there's nothing you can do but its not going to win every game with that same build because that volc just got a really good matchup.

Compare this to other previous tera abusers, like espathra... it picked 2 tera types, but those two types consistently won all the matchups it needed tera to check. Volc doesn't have this luxury, its not the invinicible god we keep calling it because its not 18 types its only able to pick 1 and does infact lose if it picks wrong and there's several types it can either pick right or wrong with. Chien-pao muscled a lot of would be checks exclusively going same type tera or tera fighting. Deadmonkey tera water was all it needed to muscle could be checks with wave crash. Volc needs basically half the game's types to access the full coverage and it obviously cant do that.

___

Banning volc doesn't solve the general issue about tera; it negates weaknesses and creates mind games while muscling through would be checks with coverage/same type tera.

Banning volc doesn't solve shed tail breaking every known sweeper, hell even dragonite and roaring moon were much more problematic shed tail recipients because again, they can handle a vast majority of the meta single handedly with that setup, volc has to exclusively reserve itself for whatever the player decided they were blocked by the most., that's why its only a shed tail recipient when the stars do align.

Banning volc doesn't stop power creep, in theory any single wallbreaker in OU like moon, valient, dragonite, etc would achieve that goal, singling out volc implies its the most consistent at wall breaking and that's far from the truth given the matchup requirements.

Banning volc simply just takes pressure off the circlejerk that it 'has no counters cause of its many sets' when there's a lot of mons more consistent needing only 1 set to do what volc does, its just feels like cheese cause everyone is aware that volc wouldn't be able to do that if the right build was coinflipped.

There are a lot of checks in the tier, its finding one that everyone gets annoyed by, and this has been true every gen where volc gets handicapped by numerous OU mons however if it creeps past them it finds time to shine, its not as easy to execute as you'd think without taking care of those checks. BW volc had stealth rock issues and gems were going for more reasons than it. Kalos volc was utter shit, due to a counter bird in the tier helping with that, it was UUBL most of the generation. Sun and moon gave Z moves which power crept it but it still had multiple checks to muscle through and offensive checks could Z-move muscle through its quiver dances too. Gen 8 was just heavy-duty boots, it had checks and counters the problem was boots in general were controversial not just for volc, but cinderace as well, pivoting in general, and volc was the epitome of a mon that got neutered by rocks so naturally it was top of the discussion.

 

[dsbruce]

chesnaught has historically been a solid uu mon and i can see a possible ou niche for it. it's got a lot more going for it than you think:

• one of the strongest body presses in the game thanks to fighting stab
• resists rock and ground simultaneously, which is especially important against stuff like offensive lando-t and curse eq garg
• bulletproof makes it immune to shadow ball in a meta infested with ghosts that like running choice items
• beats gambit or forces tera 100% of the time
• subseed chesnaught shits on stall every day of the week and twice on weekends

there's no reason to ever use chestnaught over defensive great tusk especially with proto. it has a stronger body press, has same interaction with kinggambit, already is the gholdengo check, isn't 4x weak to meow and drag uturns, actually threatens other sets. subseed even with iron defense bp or something isn't going to beat this gen's regen/unaware spam stall cores, even breloom doesn't beat their waters. it can't pack everything it wants to do on one set, and will never have the utility of the stupid elephant

 

[1LDK]

Volcarona?

To me, it just feels like "volc has been a pain in the ass for so long that people no longer care anymore" it's like back pain, it's there, it makes presence, but what are you gonna do, nothing

there's no reason to ever use chestnaught over defensive great tusk especially with proto. it has a stronger body press, has same interaction with kinggambit, already is the gholdengo check, isn't 4x weak to meow and drag uturns, actually threatens other sets. subseed even with iron defense bp or something isn't going to beat this gen's regen/unaware spam stall cores, even breloom doesn't beat their waters. it can't pack everything it wants to do on one set, and will never have the utility of the stupid elephant

1) Chesnaught is grass/fighting, so no 4x weakness to bug, chesnaught actually has more resistances, tusk resist rock better, bug, electric, fire, poison and doesn't die instantly to flying, ches trades that for water, grass, ground and still resists electric
2) it has Spikes, so that's something he can do that tusk cant
3) Even tho both check Gholdengo, they are shaky, but one of them kills with a Knock Off on the Switch, while the other blocks shadow ball and focus blast
4) it actually checks the waters because it's grass
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 228+ Def Chesnaught in Rain: 178-210 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 440-520 (101.3 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I know tera is a thing, but are you gonna have a tera water or steel when you also have to check Garganacl as one of your multiple dutys?
5) It actually deals with tusk reasonably well thanks to either leech seed or Wood Hammer

I have a full on post talking about it
Ferrothorn is not here to babysit you all, so take this and let's get to action
(also Chesnaught beats Ferrothorn 1v1)

 

[awyp]

I want to start a conversation that I saw somewhere that might be interesting.

Is Booster Energy broken? is giving a 1.3 / 1.5 auto stat boost (one time use) at a drop of a hat fair? should it be suspect tested?

-----

I personally don't think it's broken. I can see the argument but I think what makes Booster Energy fair even though it's being abused quite a lot would be it's only a 1 time switch in use, so if you switch out for any reason it goes away. I think what really pushes Booster Energy to be good are these quick HO styles that we've been seeing in general (give out really short games in general). 1.3 Boost to SpA / Att is literally Life Orb without the life damage but the one time use (so in that sense it balances out). I would say the Speed Boosts are really what are easily abused and for good reason. It is essentially is 1.5 Speed Boost, so comparable to Choice Scarf but without being choiced and this is where I see it getting dangerous.

 

[tommytt22]

I want to start a conversation that I saw somewhere that might be interesting.

Is Booster Energy broken? is giving a 1.3 / 1.5 auto stat boost (one time use) at a drop of a hat fair? should it be suspect tested?

-----

I personally don't think it's broken. I can see the argument but I think what makes Booster Energy fair even though it's being abused quite a lot would be it's only a 1 time switch in use, so if you switch out for any reason it goes away. I think what really pushes Booster Energy to be good are these quick HO styles that we've been seeing in general (give out really short games in general). 1.3 Boost to SpA / Att is literally Life Orb without the life damage but the one time use (so in that sense it balances out). I would say the Speed Boosts are really what are easily abused and for good reason. It is essentially is 1.5 Speed Boost, so comparable to Choice Scarf but without being choiced and this is where I see it getting dangerous.

personally i wouldve preferred the speed boost be 1.3. im not sure its broken but its just another thing this gen that unaware mons cant deal with. (again, not saying i hate that) it wouldnt seem half as bad if the pokemon getting it werent all 570+ bst

 

[KamenOH]

I want to start a conversation that I saw somewhere that might be interesting.

Is Booster Energy broken? is giving a 1.3 / 1.5 auto stat boost (one time use) at a drop of a hat fair? should it be suspect tested?

-----

I personally don't think it's broken. I can see the argument but I think what makes Booster Energy fair even though it's being abused quite a lot would be it's only a 1 time switch in use, so if you switch out for any reason it goes away. I think what really pushes Booster Energy to be good are these quick HO styles that we've been seeing in general (give out really short games in general). 1.3 Boost to SpA / Att is literally Life Orb without the life damage but the one time use (so in that sense it balances out). I would say the Speed Boosts are really what are easily abused and for good reason. It is essentially is 1.5 Speed Boost, so comparable to Choice Scarf but without being choiced and this is where I see it getting dangerous.

I'd argue its fair. Its a one time buff that only even works if you're paradoxing everywhere, and once you have to switch out, be it a counter or just a shit match up revenge kill potential, its gone. If Shed Tail was still a thing, stacking them could be a problem since that makes it a truly free stat boost.
Yeah they somewhat add to the HO of the meta, but then again so does half of everything else. I mean, most of the new mons are geared towards offense, as is the main gimmick, and even some new items. Covert Cloak making flinching and garging not a problem is great!
I think the offense is a nice breath of fresh air compared to last gen. Lord knows clefable and heal spam wouldnt be tolerable 2 gens in a row.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Iron Valiant and Garg were the starts of this week on the Smogon Tour, what are your thoughts about it?

 

[LoseToRU?]

Is Booster Energy broken? is giving a 1.3 / 1.5 auto stat boost (one time use) at a drop of a hat fair? should it be suspect tested?

Quick answer, no. It's fine. (for now)
The boosters being 1 time use is weird for momentum, and honestly better for offensive teams, since once the mon is in, you really want it to be doing it's job right then and there.
We're talking about mons w no abilities if you think about it, so it balances out in that way.
Not to mention it also takes an item slot.
So for example booster Val, if that thing gets scared out, you now have a mon w no item, and no ability.
I also enjoy the fact that its a stat boost but also not, meaning it isn't affected by Unaware.
As of right now, booster feels very balanced.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
tl;dr thoughts on Proto/Quark, Paradox mons, Sun/E-terrain:

What I find interesting is that Tusk, a mon that will most likely hit 60% usage, has no ability.

The most used mon in the tier doesn't have an ability.

Unless on Sun, or some v weird/bad offense set, Tusk, speaking de facto, doesn't have an ability 90% of the time.
If Tusk had practically any decent or good ability it would be better, obviously. Rough Skin, Justified, hell even something like Unnerve would be 1% better than none at all. Tusk is Him, is what I'm saying. Lando could never. Lando w no Intimidate? Instantly much worse lol.

Val is currently the most used booster mon, of course, but between you me and the fence post, that set is kinda mid.

It's cool that it can boost speed to handle Pult, Moon, most Scarf, but if you scare it out, it's just a glass cannon who is now slower than it wants to be. The set definitely has merit, probably the best cleaner I can think of in a lot of scenarios, just really overrated.
Well- barely overrated, it's still a top set for late game cleaning. Val is weird cuz scarf and specs are amazing, but then you're locked- it doesn't really have another item it likes besides scarf/specs and booster. I've been experimenting w band but that's still a lock. Would be interesting to see more lefties CM or other items be used.

Moon seemed a bit broken w booster attack early meta, but Moon in general just feels mid rn (That's another topic, what happened to that boy?)
Recently, before I dropped Moon all together, I was actually running speed booster for Val and Meow, 3 attacks (acro) Taunt. Not amazing but it felt better than booster Attack. (Again, dissecting what has happened to Moon is another story but I think there's untapped potential there with Outrage, Scale Shot, or the spd set could be good again. Either way it does not take up my dragon/dark slots atm)

Speaking of mid, Waking Wake is actually the best abuser of Proto, and what makes it not a UU tier mon.
But that's Proto, not booster. Booster WW outside of sun is usually v bad.
This segues into my next point, untapped potential and how these abilities could be better used/exploited now and in the future.

Sun is kinda mid, or at least an archetype you shouldn't be insta losing to. E-terrain is obviously even worse thanks to no viable setter.
There's a cool synergy between items and booster that has the potential to be OP in Sun/E-terrain
WW with specs + booster + modest hits 745 special attack.
Band Tusk? Ada hits 773 attack in Sun.
What's more interesting is the combination of items, such as Scarf Moon still getting the speed it needs, 555, while Proto gives it 490 attack.
The issue again is, Sun is an Archetype that is usually regulated to offense that isn't quite as good as pure HO.
I've seen some unique Sun, with Scream Tail and such, but never anything amazing.
Same obviously with E-terrain.

As of right now, I don't know if the full potential of abusing Sun/Terrain is just not being unlocked, or if this is best we can get w the mons we have.
I would be interested in a semi-sun or manual terrain team.
As in, a surprise Sunny Day into a LO speed boosted Tusk.
Or a surprise manual terrain with a Band + speed booster EV spread Val- stuff like that.

There's some room to grow, for sure. But again, as of now, there hasn't been a team or an archetype that makes these abilities broken, and in a lot of ways just nerf the Paradox mons. The momentum sink hits me the hardest. I love speed booster Iron Jung- Dark Pulse, Cane, Fblast, Taunt destroys, and I mean destroys a lot of teams (if u can hit cane kek). But I found there were times I wanted to bring it in on a move it would eat, or even like an EQ from Clod, but if I do that, then next time I'm in I'm slower than Pult, for example. Which is why you don't really see booster being used on most balance or BO. Only offense takes full advantage of booster, imo.

It just speaks volumes about how good some of these mons are that they are top tier and often just have no ability or even item.

As a side note, I'm curious if GF is stupid/careless enough to bring back Koko.
It would incredibly OP and I'm not sure at that point if we would ban Koko or the mons that abuse the terrain now that they have a setter that isn't dead weight and can pivot out.

But that's what I mean when I say "for now". Depending on the mons we get in Home/DLC, or possible changes to move sets, or the meta discovers some broken tech w booster it could be an issue, but as of now it feels balanced.

 

[Eeveeto]

Kinda theorymoning here, but you shouldn,t worry about Koko + Valiant core. Koko by itself looks broken with Ice Tera + Tera Blast, just like Regieleki. Perfect coverage + high speed + ability that makes Electric Moves even better without now worrying about Ground Mons. Hell, it can even be used in a Hail team for a Defense boost + Calm Mind. Unless some (big and by big I mean either 1 per team or full Ban) action is taken on Tera (which I won,t be supporting), Koko looks like an almost instaban the moment it gets released.

 

[DiscoDucky]

I want to start a conversation that I saw somewhere that might be interesting.

Is Booster Energy broken? is giving a 1.3 / 1.5 auto stat boost (one time use) at a drop of a hat fair? should it be suspect tested?

-----

I personally don't think it's broken. I can see the argument but I think what makes Booster Energy fair even though it's being abused quite a lot would be it's only a 1 time switch in use, so if you switch out for any reason it goes away. I think what really pushes Booster Energy to be good are these quick HO styles that we've been seeing in general (give out really short games in general). 1.3 Boost to SpA / Att is literally Life Orb without the life damage but the one time use (so in that sense it balances out). I would say the Speed Boosts are really what are easily abused and for good reason. It is essentially is 1.5 Speed Boost, so comparable to Choice Scarf but without being choiced and this is where I see it getting dangerous.

I like the strategic aspect of using Booster Energy, especially the 1.5x Spe boost. The aspect of that which gets dangerous is when the speed booster is insanely tough to prepare for. For example, a Walking Wake or Iron Jugulis with a 1.5x boost isn't the worst thing to deal with in the world because they're fairly one-dimensional, especially when Booster Energy is revealed and used. Threats like Iron Valiant is where everything becomes problematic. Between the SD Booster Energy set, the CM Booster Energy set, and boatload of coverage and util options (Taunt, Encore, etc.), a Booster abuser like IV becomes extremely problematic.

I know you're not advocating for a tiering action on Booster Energy, but I don't think the item itself is banworthy.

Kinda theorymoning here, but you shouldn,t worry about Koko + Valiant core. Koko by itself looks broken with Ice Tera + Tera Blast, just like Regieleki. Perfect coverage + high speed + ability that makes Electric Moves even better without now worrying about Ground Mons. Hell, it can even be used in a Hail team for a Defense boost + Calm Mind. Unless some (big and by big I mean either 1 per team or full Ban) action is taken on Tera (which I won,t be supporting), Koko looks like an almost instaban the moment it gets released.

While it is not the point of your post, I really think some kind of tiering action needs to be taken on Tera. I'm not gonna lie, as much creativity it affords me in teambuilding, it gets really annoying to play around Tera that you don't have explicit initial knowledge of.

Mav's post on the team sheet that VGC uses might give a good template of how Smogon itself could proceed with Terastralization. I don't advocate for a full open team sheet (moves, items, etc.), but I think making a Pokemon's Tera type known at the start of a battle would be a good start. Giving explicit knowledge of a Tera type provides a player with better information during pre-battle game-planning. Furthermore, it really cuts down on playing a guessing game on Tera-types for some meta threats (e.g. Tera Fairy/Grass/Ground/Water/etc. Volcarona, Tera Flying/Fairy/Dark Kingambit).

I still very much like the Tera mechanic, but I think exploring other options/clauses other than a full ban should be considered first.

 

[furyofyuriy]

Unless some (big and by big I mean either 1 per team or full Ban) action is taken on Tera (which I won,t be supporting), Koko looks like an almost instaban the moment it gets released.

Spoiler

Having looked ahead to see what may be returning in future DLC's, as of now there has been no mention of the Tapu's or the Ultra Beasts, so I think we can rest easy for at least a year on that. That being said, even if you take Tera Out of the equation, I think Koko still would be ban worthy in it's own right given it's history and the Violet Paradox Mons. The Scarlet Paradox's best legal Sun Setter is Torkoal, which while good, is nowhere near Koko's flexibility and multiple pivot options. In fact, Koko+Iron Jugulis would be an annoying core because Jugulis stomps on most of Koko's checks and has access too Hydro Pump to deal with Ground Leads.

 

[qways]

Iron Valiant and Garg were the starts of this week on the Smogon Tour, what are your thoughts about it?

I think iron valiant is suspect test worthy. Its movepool aswell as its statspread allow it to either use a physical or special set which makes it difficult to find reliable counter measures to all sets. This is before tera and tera obviously enhances this.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Iron Valiant and Garg were the starts of this week on the Smogon Tour, what are your thoughts about it?

Now that I have more time, I will post my comments on some trends I noticed.

and were the absolute mpvs, specs Valiant was the best set overall since switching into it is almost impossible without sacking stuff. Garg's salt cure works kinda similar, hard to switching in against it, offense gets wear down easily by this thing and balance simply can't kill it, convert cloak mons like Gholdengo get used as set up fodder and lost to it anyway.

was also a big threat, similar to Valiant, specs is just so consitent that the other sets don't look as good. I don't consider it as good as Valiant simply because shadow ball is less spamable than fairy rn so it had more issues to get stuff done, but still played a big role.

is a weird case, depending on if the rival has a fairy or a tera fairy user, this guy can go from top 3 breaker in the game to almost useless, not being able to spam Glaive rush hurts it a lot since band is the only good set, SD and DD were bad because there are unaware mons everywhere.

and talking about unaware mons, these two performance was very poor, mons who rely on set up moves to gain power got 1 kill at best because Dozo and Drige are too good rn (Clodsire wasn't used as much though) or they can get revenge killed easily, the meta is just against them.

got not usage, expected but is worth to mention it since H-zoroak wasn't used as much either. It looks like the hype for Zoroark is dying and people are getting used to ilusion, while people prefer to use dark types to stop ghosts types over normal types.

is suffering because it can't do everything it needs at once so it isn't getting the results it used to do. Convert Gholdengo just wastes its itemslot since it doesn't even stop Garg, scarf wants to trick it to a wall but at the same time it would like to keep it for the late game, sadly can't do both at the same time so it has to chose between crippling a wall but getting outspeed by half of the tier or keeping the scarf and hoping it can beat that wall with other mon. Still a solid mon but it is far from what it was on the early SV OU.

this guy is one of the reasons why Gholdengo isn't as good as before rn, a lot of teams are using court change as their hazard removal rn so going for the hazard stacking with Gholdengo trying to prevent spin and defog isn't as consistent anymore, also, another bad thing for Gholdengo is that since Ace is hazard removal, offensive Tusk sets are more common so they also outspeed not scarf Gholdengo.

with Gholdengo not longer being that spammed, Corviknight also is using defog more again, even if it is more reliable as a hazard removal now, I have to say that having to drop Body press or brave bird to run defog makes its match ups against other things it could check worse, it is a better support but loses defensive utility.

I have been thinking in writing something about this guy lately and the tournament kinda confirmed what I have been thinking, still need to find a way to redact properly my ideas since can be confusing, but for now all I will say is that is a very good mon and its presence is positive for the game.

Those were the things that caught my attention more from this week's tour, a lot of interesting matches with good vareity of picks.

 

[sg pokemon]

I already mentioned this in the viability ranking thread, but I've been having a blast spamming sandy shocks sun on the ladder recently, particularly using this set:

Sandy Shocks @ Expert Belt
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 48 Def / 208 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Earth Power
- Volt Switch
- Tera Blast

(the ev spread gives you speed in sun while helping take random priority moves better)

As mentioned there already, electric/ground/fairy coverage hits the vast majority of the most common meta threats super effectively, meaning expert belt almost always gets value, helping make up for the mon's relatively average special attack (...most of the time....I've seen enough things still take like 95% anyway. Whatever). If you're up against an unfavorable matchup, you can simply volt switch out of their check, chipping them in the process; your volt switch is basically uncontensted, considering the most prominent ground types right now (chomp, both donphans, ting lu, sandy shocks itself) all take massive damage/outright lose to tera blast fairy/earth power respectively (though ting lu may require repeated tera blast hits on the switch to properly wear down...).

I've been using this exact set on sun ever since I was apparently told that Wake was a rather mid/boring mon...honestly said mon's still insanely scary right now especially with specs tera water hydro steam in sun...but regardless, I took that as a personal challenge, and decided to give the next best special attacking paradox for sun a spin. I was not expecting this to be so good ngl, I keep getting more and more impressed by its performance; the vast majority of my losses with it were because of my own misplays/sometimes really bad matchups, rather than the mon being dead weight in a match. Aside from trying out tera ice on it for a bit, I haven't really considered changing the set at all; scarf/specs seem really limiting, especially with how many teams often pack multiple immunities to its stabs. Considering the mon's already average damage output, mostly carried by its super effective coverage, I also question the effectiveness of this set with a booster energy outside of sun; even with expert belt it can sometimes fail to outright ohko bulkier spreads of some of its intended targets (tusk, gambit), depending on damage rolls. One possible change could be replacing volt switch with sub, to ease prediction as the opponent will no doubt try to switch mons around to try and waste sun turns while minimizing damage taken in the meanwhile; I don't think I'd fancy the hp loss like that, especially as you'd still be revenged by the likes of specs pult if it catches you without sun, but maybe someone else could make it work, or possibly other ways to use the mon too.

I encourage everyone to try this set out now while home isn't out yet; once the time comes, lando t, thundy t and possibly even zapdos will likely force this set to use tera ice to remain relevant, if the mon itself even gets to keep up with the eventual incoming power creep. Still, I'm glad I was able to make this discovery now before this meta is over, if nothing else; it actually got me to a higher ladder ranking than I ever thought possible. Sets like this are examples of how tera can help lower tier mons shine even up here in OU, without necessarily being broken; and that's imo the best part of the mechanic.

Lastly, here's the team I've been using so far to get the most out of the mon: https://pokepast.es/dd8f10e4777b3845
Built around the core of tera fairy shocks+tera grass solar blade ceruledge, a core able to take on most of the meta; it's been working rather well so far, although hatterene can sometimes feel like dead weight/not much more than sack fodder, due to not getting the chance to get much done in this fast paced meta. Nonetheless, it's a sun team completely unafraid of tera water garg, which is rather nice tbh. Roaring moon also ties up the rest of the team pretty well, all things considered; its band set is really effective in this meta, fulfilling a variety of roles, especially with a speed boost in sun to turn the tables on the meta's fastest mons.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Though personally, I wouldn't count on things getting delayed.

have we reached the point where the general populace doesn't remember the absolute shitshow that was the pokebank rollout