Annihilape used Rest!
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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Anyways, I think many of you are missing the point of the post. The point wasn't that these pokemon were busted solely because of Tera, it was to show that their weaknesses were invalidated with little to no commitment on your part. I think a lot of current OU threats showcase this as well. Kingambit can tera into a type not weak to ground or flying to fuck up endgame counterplay you had to it. Garganacl becomes impossible to kill when it's not a rock type and can and will stall you out. A lot of good offensive Tera users basically use it either for free setup turns or so their STABs become unwallable. Baxcalibur goes Tera Dragon to break the beeg feesh and other potent walls. Pult goes Tera Ghost to make Shadow Ball even more spammable. I think this contributes to the "broken everything" feel the metagame has going on right now. It quite literally feels like an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.
heatran aint doing shit to dozo or clod lul
except it Teras grass, then uses its Taunt/Earth Power/Magma Storm/Toxic set of generations past to kill both of them lmao.
Assuming this was responding to my Tornadus post, what's the one time alternative to Knock Off (assuming it loses that move)?
Dealing with Annihilape is actually a pretty good trait of Torn, I'll give you that, especially since it can slide in Taunt to force it to use Rage Fist & deal high passive damage with Rocky Helmet. Bleakwind Storm is also a more reliable means of damaging it (though maybe you don't want that in this case since missing doesn't power up Rage Fist).
That being said, I'm not exactly sure what Utility moves Tornadus torn can run over Knock / Defog. Taunt is a pretty good option, but other moves like Sludge Bomb leave gaping holes in its coverage and doesn't really help vs common switch-ins like Corv, Gholdengo, and Garganacl the same way Knock would. Maybe Foul Play to revenge kill slower SD sweepers?
Tera does kinda let Tran just trap and kill any would-be counters huh
Also not that this will change anyone’s mind on the matter but the Annihilape discussion hasn’t really talked about the way that it does so well into offense. Like, yes, it single-handedly beats essentially all stall and defensive archetypes (everyone goes to taunt, but rest was also incredibly effective at this) but it was also a fantastic abuser of screens offense even without tera. With it, you could essentially guarantee 1-3 kills against an offensive team, it just molded so much of the gameplay around its presence in a way that is so unhealthy. I don’t ever see it staying OU as long as tera is around, and even then I would be surprised if it dropped. The presence of one single fringe offense pick that ignores its stabs does not change the fact that this thing genuinely has a mechanic that disincentivizes clicking attacking moves, while also being able to effectively prevent/heal status moves depending on the set. Genuinely my favorite mon I’ve ever used, but way too crazy for OU imo.
hearten loses toxic but if it tera grasses that's great since that's tera gone lol and now takes a lot from u turn
+ heatrans only recovery is lefties + protect so it can be chipped down with something like bpress
the trapping will be super annoying however so im not surprised if I see a lot of tera ghosts on stall teams post home
The Donzo thing was just an illustration.
Tera boost turns soft checks into liabilities and hard checks into soft checks.
Mons that could normally switch in safely can no longer.
Any mon with good to great attack/spa can be paired with a choice item, and then another 1.3x boost on top of that.
The power is often overwhelming.
The best example right now is Tera Dragon CB Bax, which essentially has no safe switch ins.
Tera Tran Grass aside, this team folds to any decently good double/predict, gets broken by common breakers such as CB Bax, Specs Val (psyshock) and the second Clod is gone Volca sweeps with ease. It's still a good team, and it's funny that Ape doesn't pure 6-0, but again, when the frailer mons such as meow and zoro are gone then classic Ape sweeps.
It puts a lot of pressure on keeping these mons alive which can be exploited.
Not to mention, this is a balance squad but I'll concede and say Ape doesn't auto win forsure.
The main argument with Ape, however, is that it literally invalidates stall/semi stall.
They just can't handle the taunt/rest + Drain/BU/RF variant basically at all.
As much as it's fun to give stall an easy L, it's not competitive nor balanced to have that as a factor.
We can theorize in a vacuum, but Ape has 5 partners, and the fact that's it's even there put the opp at a huge disadvantage to cautiously maintain their counters.
If I send in Ape they have to send in Meow or Zoro, and that's the easiest double of my life, and I get in my other mon for free.
Basically, if I have ape and a decent team, I'm going to beat this one every time. But fair play, HV can build some cool shit forsure.
The only time I'd consider testing ape would be post-tera.
It's still broken and wouldn't pass a suspect, but it's lists of checks and counters does grow tbh.
First of all, Grass Tran is not terrible because "it takes a lot from U-turn". What U-turn users do we have that actually do decent damage besides Cinderace, which just HJKs it if it doesn't Tera anyway, and Meowscarada, which dies to Magma Storm anyway while doing only about half? The things that actually have STAB on U-turn fold to its Magma Storm. It's still immune to fire via its ability, and grass is not a terrible defensive type for a trapper. It notable loses weaknesses to ground and fighting, allowing it to trap and check Tusk, Chomp, be a soft check to FB Ghold, Valiant, etc. Secondly, you just trapped Clod with Magma Storm, and you're going to taunt it next turn so no Toxic. Third, you did what you wanted to with the Tran, which was remove a wall that probably held one of your sweepers back. In this sense it's not "wasting a tera", it's using your tera to open up your endgame. Plus, with how often walls want to Tera to actually check what they need to (Fairy Dozo for CB Bax, Water Clod for Psyshock Valiant, Water Garg for Gambit and Ghold) it's often a trade anyways.
Here's my thoughts on bans (as long as tera is allowed):
Annihilape - Ban
Basculegion - Ban unless LR banned
Chi-Yu - Ban
Chien-Pao - Test
Espathra - Test
Flutter Mane - Ban
Houndstone - Ban unless LR banned
Iron Bundle - Ban
Landorus-I - Ban
Magearna - Test
Palafin - Ban
Regieleki - Test
Spectrier - Test
Urshifu - Ban
Zamazenta-C - Ban
Zamazenta - Test
Just letting you know I feel generous with some of these being tested. I just think that it would be absolute insanity to have the ones that I said to ban be allowed.
Annihilape - Ban
Basculegion - Ban unless LR banned
Chi-Yu - Ban
Chien-Pao - Test
Espathra - Test
Flutter Mane - Ban
Houndstone - Ban unless LR banned
Iron Bundle - Ban
Landorus-I - Ban
Magearna - Test
Palafin - Ban
Regieleki - Test
Spectrier - Test
Urshifu - Ban
Zamazenta-C - Ban
Zamazenta - Test
Just letting you know I feel generous with some of these being tested. I just think that it would be absolute insanity to have the ones that I said to ban be allowed.
Come play Natdex and find out how obnoxious Tera grass Heatran is. Not only trapping and removing basically whatever it wants among the list of defensive stuff, but also being quite dangerous offensively due to it flipping one of the most common ways to threaten it (ground attacks).
alright, time to jump on the actual bandwagon now (THESE ARE ASSUMING THAT TERA IS STILL WITH US)
Annihilape - test. the ape is still insane, but i think testing it at the very least could determine if the home meta slows its roll
Basculegion - dont ban this, just ban last respects you dolt
Chi-Yu - jesus christ keep it banned
Chien-Pao - honestly, keep it banned if tera is around
Espathra - i really hate this thing with tera, keep it banned
Flutter Mane - no
Houndstone - refer to basculegion
Iron Bundle - get this fucking bird back to the ubers tier
Landorus-I - 90s laugh track (no you dipshit, dont test this)
Magearna - this thing is probably going to be tested anyways, but i kinda just want it banned
Palafin - dolphins are evil creatures, keep it in ubers
Regieleki - test cause i like this little booger boy
Spectrier - maybe test? i highly doubt it'll be okay, but crazier things have happened
Urshifu S - ehhhhh, ban
Zamazenta C - ban (if zama hero is allowed, then test this!)
Zamazenta H- test!
Annihilape - test. the ape is still insane, but i think testing it at the very least could determine if the home meta slows its roll
Basculegion - dont ban this, just ban last respects you dolt
Chi-Yu - jesus christ keep it banned
Chien-Pao - honestly, keep it banned if tera is around
Espathra - i really hate this thing with tera, keep it banned
Flutter Mane - no
Houndstone - refer to basculegion
Iron Bundle - get this fucking bird back to the ubers tier
Landorus-I - 90s laugh track (no you dipshit, dont test this)
Magearna - this thing is probably going to be tested anyways, but i kinda just want it banned
Palafin - dolphins are evil creatures, keep it in ubers
Regieleki - test cause i like this little booger boy
Spectrier - maybe test? i highly doubt it'll be okay, but crazier things have happened
Urshifu S - ehhhhh, ban
Zamazenta C - ban (if zama hero is allowed, then test this!)
Zamazenta H- test!
OU will be different than nat dex. Heatran has lost toxic and a few other potentially useful moves. Heatran also lacks reliable recovery.
yeah a metagame where every single team runs Zoroark-H to avoid being ruined by the Ape seems really fun and balanced
Aside from the fact that toxic would be the only notable move it WOULD lose if the move resets were happening (which is much less likely given what insiders and the actual home post says), Heatran can still trap most of what it wants to. It doesn't NEED toxic.
Holy fuck GF
WHY
we got scammededed
So how many people did they bait into buys suscriptions to Home with this?
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