Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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turd2 said:
4 Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 92-110 (24.3 - 29.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery (stall break set with max HP/speed)

252 Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 114-134 (30.1 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (offensive set with max atk/speed)

Don't press U-Turn when you see Annihilape (it boosts rage fist) and defensive Gholdengo could switch in every time.

The problem is when Annihilape uses tera, it's no longer weak to Gholdengo's ghost moves, which means Gholdengo can no longer win the war.
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It's remaining banned so this is mostly pointless but... Honest asking here, do you know how Ape works? Taunt+BU forces bulky and fat teams to smack it. All while it boosts with BU. Stall does have Talonflame but that only works if the Ape isn't Tera fire.

artificialdeath said:
Hzoro is mainly used on the types of teams that match up well into Annihilape anyway so it's not a huge difference. If we had a bulky Normal/Ghost it'd be a different story.
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Also this. Ape didn't have to change anything for Zoro when the teams Ape dominated couldn't fit it anyways.

Anyways, I'm happy the rage fister is staying banned. Just a blight on the meta that makes team building for bulky teams a nightmare.
 
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I’m actually surprised ape is staying banned since finch accidentally said earlier it wasn’t. Oh well, he’s pretty high on the you can’t unban him while Tera is a thing list
 
MrE said:
Ape staying banned is because smogon loves stall smh.
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aaf.png
 
OU Council, just wanna say so far so good with the Home meta bans.
As a collective, I feel like you all have made great decisions so far.

While it's only been 3 mons so far, I think they illustrate a nice pattern:

Mage- Borderline mon
Borderline- mons that may be suspected later- mons that will most likely be top tier if unbanned- mons that may be broken due to Tera.
For example, Leki.

Lando-Incarnate- Overpowered
Overpowered- mons that have no business in OU- mons that would have almost no true checks/counter- mons that are simply too good.
For example, Chi-Yu

Annihilape- Overcentralizing
Overcentralizing- mons that warp the meta negatively- mons that technically have some counters/checks but they are niche/have to deal with 5 other mons- mons that could be considered win-buttons vs too many average teams.
For example, Espa

I think we will have an optimal post-Home meta if council can continue voting in this fashion.

I say as a collective, and I'll use Finch as an example cuz he has thick skin for one and secondly dude couldn't care less lol.
I don't agree with his Mage vote, but he saved us from Ape cringe along with 3 other members, but if he voted the other way we would have to deal with annoying ass ape.

So, idk if it's just a great group of players or coincidence but so far so good. I'm heavily leaning towards the former, though :)

Mage, as myself and others have pointed out, deserves some time in OU.

Lando-I would have been a waste of everyone's time and lowkey was a litmus test to see if any OU council members deserve to be booted from the club lol- joking, of course, but lowkey I would have cast a suspect eye towards any that voted unban, thankfully none did, cuz it's obvious, but still.

Ape was the hard one, but I personally believe this would have been a huge detriment to the developing meta.. We need stall, semi stall, fat balance players in this crazy meta that's about to drop. Those who build and play that archetype are essential and help us understand what's truly broken or not. This meta will start out wildly offensive, but some brave souls will build the first teams that can stop HO in it's tracks. Ape would have given these players almost no incentive to build or possibly even play Home for that matter.
I'm not faulting anyone who voted no ban, just as I'm not faulting anyone for voting ban on Mage, those are legit perspectives to have, and are valid. Between the 10 of you it seems like the best outcome is often result, which is something cool to see.

Anyway, great job so far!
Myself, and many others are really excited and impressed w the way our Tier Leader and OU Council are rolling out this pertinent info regarding bans/unbans.
Also, thank you for the incredible transparency of the process and consistent updates. Very impressive work.
 
Landorus won't break OU in half for a day, that's nice.

Mixed feelings on the Mag unban. Maybe it will be easier to deal with this gen with how much faster the metagame is, but I still am not sold it will be 100% fine for the tier. I hope to be wrong as I do think Mag could bring some good to the tier, especially with how much we are hurting for fairy types. I hope that if Mag is a solid A+ mon and a healthy presence, but I would not be shocked if Specs Mag causes problems. Good thing Clodsire is here to help check it for fat teams.

Also Annihilape is dumb and glad that it might be on the radar if Tera gets a hit.

If I had to hazard a guess of who is next on the chopping block, my guess is we will see another easy decision by the council. Either Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle, or Chi Yu. I doubt there is really any desire for those to get a retest in OU knowing how dangerous they would be. My guess is that some of the choices that have a stronger shot of staying OU, like the Zamas and Chien Pao, will come later on.
 
BolTingBlazie said:
I mean banded glide we all know hits dummy hard, but the question is would it okho?



Also I wonder who's verdict is next to be revealed...
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252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Chien-Pao in Grassy Terrain on a critical hit: 366-432 (121.5 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Needs a critical, otherwise it's dependent on hazards for banded.
 
Just some new tech I thought of sharing, pretty standard bulky offense with some new options, pretty successful at mid 1600s

bro acts as your main pivot and even uninvested has some very usable special bulky, not something i could rely on the vice versa with slowking, moon is an absolute standard booster acro sweeper set, it does its job fine and I feel pretty fine losing the booster by switching around defensively early game because I don't lack damage from my next mon, squawk, my sleeper breaker cos no one knows how fast it is, it always hits hard and can pick up free ko's your opponent doesn't expect, avalugg is a ridiculously free defensive wall that staves off tusk, moon, dnite, bax, etc. muds is the usual lead for rocks and any damage taken gets rested off giving it enough longevity into the mid-game, heracross is a little underwhelming but it's a fine pocket scarfer and if it does get a moxie boost you're probably best off sacking it for the momentum.

https://pokepast.es/e0287b24ebd573c2

and some replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1870900358
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1870892685
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1870885533-lnz4c9i69cgy7rmzqk9hczbv2pwgpjkpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1870889778-3lubpbmteghsu74bv4fz6wvpoffvxrxpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1870943260
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1870927618
 
this looks fun said:
Just some new tech I thought of sharing, pretty standard bulky offense with some new options, pretty successful at mid 1600s

bro acts as your main pivot and even uninvested has some very usable special bulky, not something i could rely on the vice versa with slowking, moon is an absolute standard booster acro sweeper set, it does its job fine and I feel pretty fine losing the booster by switching around defensively early game because I don't lack damage from my next mon, squawk, my sleeper breaker cos no one knows how fast it is, it always hits hard and can pick up free ko's your opponent doesn't expect, avalugg is a ridiculously free defensive wall that staves off tusk, moon, dnite, bax, etc. muds is the usual lead for rocks and any damage taken gets rested off giving it enough longevity into the mid-game, heracross is a little underwhelming but it's a fine pocket scarfer and if it does get a moxie boost you're probably best off sacking it for the momentum.

https://pokepast.es/e0287b24ebd573c2

and some replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1870900358
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1870892685
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1870885533-lnz4c9i69cgy7rmzqk9hczbv2pwgpjkpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1870889778-3lubpbmteghsu74bv4fz6wvpoffvxrxpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1870943260
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1870927618
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I would put this post in RMT forum king, you're not gonna get much feedback here in regards to what you're looking for.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/rate-my-team.52/

Or restructure the post and be like what do y'all think of X mon and go from there, but we're not going to engage w a random squad and some replays just FYI.
 
Finchinator said:
Annihilape will remain banned from SV OU upon the release of Pokemon HOME: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-home-tiering-announcements.3721859/#post-9632397
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now what are you gonna announce tonight finch? My guess is either flutter mane or iron bundle since I think we all know what the outcome for those two monsters is gonna be

Pando067 said:
apparently grassy glide is 60 bp now. I didn't know they nerfed it :(
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still guessing it kills though, chien pao isn't known for being bulky at all
 
BolTingBlazie said:
now what are you gonna announce tonight finch? My guess is either flutter mane or iron bundle since I think we all know what the outcome for those two monsters is gonna be



still guessing it kills though, chien pao isn't known for being bulky at all
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it does 95% at best but yeah, it kills with sr
 
Now that you are all speaking about Chien Pao, it's a good moment to remind that it got 2 new checks, Watershifu and Magearna. Will still be able to break through them (especially the former, since unlike Magearna it has no other reason to have bulky spreads), but certainly looks easier to handle now. Zamazenta Hero could be another check if it survives the Ban wave.
 
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