NOC Smalltown Hotel Mafia - Game Thread (MAFIA WINS)

T psy
tl celever
feel like i can v break: skipper ls jalmont
dont wanna touch but cant justify putting higher given past instances: hal realiti
sortable nulls: oj ag hh
imminent poe: tommy m24

By all means feel free to not read into this and the next paragraph but i feel like again and again my greatest strength - and weakness - has always been meta and familiarity with a playerlist. I have won (many, many games) off of meta and lost games (only a few, i think) off of meta and a lot of the time when I used to play it would be my go-to factor for picking out intricacies behind peoples playstyle. However I suppose mafia is the type of game where yeah people are just gonna adapt and get better or their posting style is just gonna change over time. Despite that for the past uh maybe 4-5 hours (it's light outside and 5 am here) i've been trying to earnestly cross check everyone's meta which isn't something I've done before. Also havent wrote a case-esque post since my first game so das cool. Trying to find ways to read people that dont send me in wifom hell too, but I have a feeling I'm always gonna be uneasy about that kind of stuff until I can find something more consistent.

I have other notes on some players that I don't really wanna reveal - the important part of this post will be my takeaways which you can find at the bottom. I'll have them copypaste ready if somehow it's pertinent and thread traction goes towards me or whatever but tbh it probably won't so lmfao. One of the best parts about eating d1 townreads is that there's less of a magnifying glass on my posts lols

Earlier in the game I thought Celever was awful and it starts with this post

Psypsypsypsypsythe said:
CELEVER YOU DSONT UNDERSTAND PLEASE WORK WITH ME HERE
Click to expand...

Celever said:
I DO UNDERSTAND I WAS THERE

Also Tommy picking role swapper while having first pick is a enviable amount of chaotic energy that I aspire to lmao
Click to expand...

where he just kinda sits there and is like awfully sideliney for about 20 pages

however i can now share that it felt in matrices he did the same shit, just that this game he was less active on the start. I don't think I wanna give that read too much credit, and like especially given the last scumgame I read it actually felt like he felt like he was sideliney but in the sense that he didn't fit into the thread as much. His content was hidden behind wall-posts and a lack of isolated 1 on 1s whereas this game it was... legit nonexistent for a while. Which is, like not great, but it is different. Despite the fact that it was 3 years ago, and not that I think Celever would be the type of player who would have trouble fitting in as scum (cos he clearly didnt before), but he’s having trouble fitting in now when he feels like he wouldnt have a problem before if u know wat I mean. Now that I’ve written it out it probably reads super dumb but it's like a circular level reasoning to get me here?

While the content pushed after is probably fakable I think it’s fine enough to where I don’t think I wanna touch Celever. He’s shown in the past that he’s had no issues firing out shit to get the game rolling. His early pages sucked bad but i come around to feeling like a towny pov of suck lmfao.

JALMONT

yea im ngl i had no idea what MONTy mole is posting until I thought about it. i can’t really in good faith force myself to make a strong read here because obviously his posts are crafted to not have reads whatsoever, so it’s unusual behavior. But if I had to GTH it feels like behavior that’s more likely to come from town than scum - in a team setting would this approach only be made like… ig if you were the scumteam leader or if the wagons look real good for his team? his team wouldnt be in the voting pool? Like playing mafia like this isnt going to be very charismatic or generate a lot of vote pressure anyway because it’s moving towards a mech way to solve the game when from prior experience jalmont should know most smogon games are kinda based on creating reads d1 despite how useless that might sound to new 2023 zen mode monty mole.

Also his team would probably want him to make reads ig. Like genuinely he would have to be the most experienced player in a scumteam. Is that a fair point cos I know I would hate his posts lmfao.

I feel like I would understand this more with stronger meta, but here are three of JALMONTs’ last games (first 2 v, 1 scum) on the site iirc. Doubt anybody will read them and they’re also a kajillion years old (I didn’t, I just looked at his isos) so feel free to not give a fuck but yea. Which like the first two are kinda consistent with his mentality just in a less overtly role-solving way.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/13p-matrix-14-no-multiball-game-thread-game-over.3655892/ (2020)
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/crisis-in-ck9-city-serial-killer-wins.3661057/ (late 2019)

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/reinforcements-scum-win.3642171/ (late 2018)

Lady Salamence

The first thing I noted about LS was that I think there is a bit of experience growth between last game and this game which is cool to see unrelated to anything alignment-wise. I would probably have immediately screamed coachable if mafia didn’t have an hourish to prepare for game start LOL because their posting during the first few pages was honestly pretty good. I kinda maintain that newer scum players will likely feel more nervous entering the thread and that hasn’t really showed as-so-far. Definitely the best reason to townread the slot would be that.

I think my only caveat with Lady Salamence is that while I liked their posting some of their actual posts has got me a lil lost like #1346 is super weird cos 1. it feels like they are the only other subscriber to jalmonts stuff and 2. Lady Salamence whats with the drop from townreading tommy -> kinda sring him?

HydrogenHydreigon

I dont have a read rn. Like until HH finds a way to consistently post on D1 or roll scum it'll be a little harder for everyone lmfao. Only has a section cos I wanted to mention that I voted HH earlier in the game once cos his opener was more assertive than his past two town games and that felt like a bit of unnatural confidence. Tried to iso and anything I could post here is honestly not stable enough.

skippergamez

i think posting has been fine for a first time forum mafia player. I would say it's confidently inconsistent? Which is different from being confident and consistent as your first game. Skipper doesnt look scared at all to post or have inconsistent or unexplained reads. Gave them a plus that they said no to not voting apricity lmfao. It’s likely a V break

M24

i am raising a bit of an eyebrow with thread trajectory towards the slot, but it does feel like they’re a bit more cautious this game. Felt like they threw around their vote more in matrices whereas here their entrance was more stationed behind setup spec, then in the morning it was a readslist into a vote they didnt believe in as much compared to their past readslist

Like looking into it they thought deadline was soon and is that why they voted hal? I guess thats believable. The actual post for voting hal read like they needed to sell themselves onto a wagon lmao with 10 minutes to go at eod. But why the retraction in their vote after as if a puppy was kicked lmao after the fact, nobody needs my approval to do anything.

realiti

Originally his posts read as fine and he agreed with me on stuff so I gave him a pass. Looking at his games I think I actually picked up a couple tendencies as either alignment and he’s not out of his wolf range. Him being relatively more inactive doesn't help a lot but his votes and posts havent been like, awful or anything. So kinda regressing on realiti - not shade, just have to hold myself a bit more accountable.

In good news I think I will have a better idea around eod.

Psypsypsypsypsythe

I didn’t wanna be biased so I went through MU and I think I have a strong meta read here to back up my actual tr on him of which nobody seems to care about why so yea. Would be the game of his life if he was scum here

apricity

For this section I’m just not going to meta dig. I genuinely don’t think it will help me lol.

Here are all the general issues people probably should have with Hal
-Disconnection with his initial townread on Psy, then proceeding to call specifically me out for saying Psy was a town read even though he said Psy looked worse
-Changing his reads from being weirded out into sheeping mine and staying on course with that for
-Not explaining his reads despite confidence in them (this is more of a person by person thing, though!)
-This post lol
apricity said:
I mean if y’all don’t want to play mafia and just want to get me back for last game, sure. I’m cool with it
Click to expand...

Do you know what the problem is? It’s obv not readable, or even good, content, but his scum game was a lot more smoothed out and communicative and - oh ya he was scum lol. And he obviously knows this, so he can post whatever the fuck he wants because it’s, well, not his scum meta. The only way to hold him accountable is to vote him but idk everyone in the game wants to vote him and not many people are in his corner. So that just feels more off to me thread wise

I also just think if he randed scum with another stronger player he wouldn’t be playing like this and would take a different approach. But, well, I clearly do not have the rights to comment on this after cool weapon so shrug emoji heart emoji

uh as for master oden and aura guardian i have some notes but im gonna take more time with the deadline extend cos i dont think iso digging will help and live thread will probably work better too. They’re both idks for me though
 
Nuxl you mentioned the fact that i am struggling with giving reads etc, which is true but you kind of also mention the fact that i am usually better at engaging people in thread, which is also true, but for both alignments

so like, maybe im missing your point a bit because your post is back and forward (not trying to take away from it i think it was a good post), but i think we both know that im very capable of giving reads as mafia, as you said, so why do you think in this case i wouldnt?
 
I was gonna call out hydro for his "just town" post, but i also want to say eli is just town off that

idt he bothers going that much in debt on me as mafia, too much effort
 
Nuxl said:
Why I Think Duskfall Is Weird (A Meta Dissertation)

This section is gonna sound like a case but idk something just feels so off. I feel like this game I’m watching a defanged tiger in Tommy play mafia lmfao, so bear with me.

This is kind of one of the parts where I feel bad because if I'm misinterpreting the wrong things then oh well fuck me right but I just kind of wanna compare and contrast his entrance in this game with some other ones.

I’m not hyperlinking everything but here we go:

This Game:
#72/73/79/81 are just rvs stuff
#89 is his first conflict with psy and #99 is when he engages with the thought seriously

Now the game begins for him so just gonna highlight posts,
#105 question about psy’s mindset
#114 inclination to use role d1
#118/120 use of appealing to psy
#123 setup spec
#133/136/138/142/149 setup spec
#161/169 trying to disengage the actual conflict, first read expressed is a TR on psy off it, #188 is a continuation to disengage
#230/234/237/251/264/274/279/281/286/301 continues to react to psy even though read was already expressed. Theres literally like 5 other people posting around him. It’s a hyperfixated use of time
Ok so now tommy just goes and talks to people randomly, #304/305 clears up my confusion on something, into #311 which is a question that continues the psy argument, into #315/320/324/335 (335 expresses a tr on psy again)

Tommy is really easygoing at this point, it’s like he just responds to peoples’ comments like #351/357/361/365/359/372 and questions random people like #353

Then he leaves on #385 (p15)

P17-18 is me and tommy just talking about the roleswapper

skipper reaction test independently looked fine on p19

soon after he leaves the thread so I dont really care. I only really wanted to cover it anyway.

Lets talk about his reads we’ve established so far

Within the first 20 pages he has a townread on psy . Yeah

At this current point of the game (6X pages) he is:
Townreading: celever (i think this is a townread? The main thing is he says celever has towny tone but hedges on this), psy
> randtown: hal
Towny tone but fakable: skipper
not townreading yet: me
Votes realiti because he wants to see more content: realiti

I dont think i missed anything stated, #1186 might imply he has more reads but not too sure

Let’s compare this to the first game on MU I wanna bring up

Mafia Champs S10 G3 (Tommy Was Mafia This Game BTW) https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/39689

#39 (rvs kinda exists but it’s also rqs too)
#49 responds to question about icebreaker
(rvs ends about here)
#59 talks about prior meta hes played with
#61 heartily responds to koc
#73 responds to maolfunction about another game
#87 inputs commentary towards (partner) macdougall about smth mac found scummy
#93 general setup spec
#105 hearty non game related response to partner macdougall
#108 asks question to knightsofcydonia
#120 engages in conversation with knightsofcydonia by asking him questions ab his thoughts
#128 responds to mafia theory by spookycat
#134 votes koc
#149 pressures koc by saying what he found is a stretch, continues #158, continues #176, continues #189, continues 224, continues 283
#168 responds to maolfunction who was asking about… his convo with koc
#179 first initiated question asked to ricardo, sets up conversation with partner in #168/184/199, and in 234
#183 responds to maol adding to their comment
#211 random nai
#240 asks partner question in 240
#253 second expressed read, “gth risiinq town”
On this page i dont really care because hes just asking random questions, makes a comment to litten based on scum meta
Expresses sr on maol in 288
#315 random nai
#316 question, 317 mindset question, 330 another mindset question

Ok tommy fucking leaves thread so idc anymore

Heres tommys eod1 reads in this game I think hopefully didnt miss anything

Koc townish
risiiinq gth town, votes later in thread tho
Disoriented felt towny but wants more content
skeith/snowblaze comments on but like null
Sheriff dropped off
Maol orctin scummish

Lets talk about another game (where tommy is town RICK AND MORTY 21er)
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/39320-Rick-and-Morty-Poison-21er

Ok so notably his first post is #734 comments on lot of posts but watever
#740-743-744 footing in thread catching up
#747 calls werepanda town off one post
#749 calls isos bad (true my fucking b dude)
#759 responds to 181 calling the poster having a very bad take
#766 responds to 185 calling zenons post a sideeye
#770 calls 215 an omega wolfy post
#774 doubles down on werepanda being town on his 222
#788 wants to call batman town
#790 calls prince j frogs partner off of 507 (or if it isnt clear expresses scumread)
#802 calls cobalts 558 town
im just gonna copy #810
cape and robyn have been very active, and very unimpressive in general

not in like a bad player or explicitly wolfy way, just like, hard to formulate anything on them for me, which is noted in itself
#822 calls wiggles entrance >rand town
#837 ok first actual fucking response to someone talking about his iso post
#843 calls doctorzeus a mason but p sure this is a joke ass post
#846 anti-werepanda shield up cos he thinks he’s town!
#849 POSTS A READSLIST
Town: WerePanda, TwiceShrunk, Kang, moth, batman, cobalt, dz

Mafia: Froger, Zenon, prince
Which seems more or less consistent with his posts
#851 votes frogsterking

Now im not gonna go into the rest of this for the readers sake but i just want to make it clear in the rest of the iso it feels like there is a readied URGE to solve the game this d1. Theres some questions some stuff etc but tommy is trying his best to be fairly charismatic with where he wants this day to go

Ok but wait like u might say he arrived late and had time to post reads (he was still town, but like he didnt have psy screaming at him)

So heres another game where tommy entered rvs

Tommy Town Doctor Game (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forum...ionship-S10-Practice-Game-2-Game-Thread/page2)

#63 enters thread
#69 immediate mafia read on gwen
#72 immediate town read on vulgar
#80 response to gwen asking why she’s mafia, tommy explains that gwens entrance was awkward and vulgard was comfortable/ready to solve
#88 no-thought comment about the side conversation possibly having a mafia, 96 says he doesnt have a reason to justify it and it was a gut feeling
#107 asks kanave a meta question about eliza
#116 ngl i dont actually understand this post but it expresses a slightly scum read on either 0lx or gwen

#138 (copypaste) "well the subject is my read, so if you were really concerned about where my read came from, you would be aware of me not knowing your alignment right, either that or im a wolf

its not really the fact you only spoke about prince, its that you engaged my thought, without really taking it as my tought, which could naturally have you as mafia right, so it kinda seems like you are more interested in separating your pov as "town", more than engaging in my prospective read (which ftr, i want to emphasis was mostly random commentary)

so like, you thought my read was weird but you still didnt engage with it at face value. and question why i would bring it up, in the form it existed for me, you transformed it to a world where you are town, which seems towny on the surface but idt it is really because town would want to verify if i have tmi or not right?"

(dude this post is sick)
#144 slight townread expressed on kanave for their commentary on eliza being lhf
#158 “i usually only defend myself if i am worried about getting booted, or if i think a vote on me is weird/scummy

rn youre putting random pressure on me, i feel like im probably the towniest person in the game so far, one of the people on mes last read (vulgrad) was that i was their top town, theres basically no chance i get voted today already imo, so id rather just solve tbh”
#160 saying prince is town
#179 votes 0lx saying they’re a scumlean and wants to see progression throughout the phase
#194 says that he’s gonna park a vote on 0lx and not engage “because its not good for thread health and i think we will learn more solving elsewhere and seeing how we react to other things, than getting in a big petty fight over a micro read”

These two things i quoted are like. I’m not gonna hold Tommy to what he said in a game that happened 2 months ago but I do think it’s fair to say that I don’t think he’s been using his time amazingly itg whereas these are clear posts that insinuate that?

#202 says that litten shouldnt feel like a backseater, and looks to be one atm
#205 xerox slight town read
#228 disagrees with a not w/w read that vulgard makes on 224
#233 votes litten in 233
#236 joke response to litten
#243 “or i think youre not trying to solve the game and are a player with a good rep, who has a reputation of being a tryhard, to my knowledge” follow up to 236
#247 talks about being anti pr and asks litten if he’s been solving behind the scenes or if he’s lazy
#254 disagrees with litten’s reaction and says if you have reads you should post them
#257 xerox townread going down, 260 follows up (great tone/bad content)
#264 asks litten to drop reads, follows up and asks why litten’s not doing anything with the interactions
#271 asks litten to react to posts prior

I’m stopping because I’ve been working on this for a long ass while and it’s almost 4 am but you get the point though. Theres clear READS coming out, the way he interacts with people is entirely different, and when it comes to people tommy wants to solve he works to directly face them in thread, rather than him just being on the side and setup speccing and questioning people. This game it hasn’t felt like that much. Yeah tommy has been putting out reads, or like kind of, but most of the time he chooses to end up in thread, I don't get that same urge to actually work through the game that I feel in these two past games.

These are tommy’s last 3 mafia games fwiw (all within 3 months) and the closest entrance that it FEELS like to this game is really his champs game.

Here are my few caveats and feel free to interact or dismiss this shit. Cos like if he’s town then rip i will look like a fucking idiot. Here’s some margins of error:
1. There could be a world where Tommy is having trouble creating content just cos he got tilted the fuck out of psy or something. But idk no read on me or even interacting with ur homies like wtf. It’s been a full day too and afaik those are his stated reads.

2. I kinda feel like he doesnt have an issue making shit up as scum? In a game on MU april 2022 he just threw reads at the wall when he entered thread. Fwiw he got insta voted and owned d1 there rip but I mean he didnt have trouble locking people in alignment wise - his recent scumgame is was more hedgy whereas that one oozed with confidence. This one is clearly hedgy

3. His real time has been pretty fine. This is where I’m kicking myself for interacting with him because I reread our first 1v1 and I was like shit is this fakable. However kind of erring on caution here, cos while the vibes felt good, tommy has made sharp paragraph style posts within minutes in that game.
Click to expand...

skippergamez this one???
 
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