Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

[Sylveon used calm mind]

the fact volcarona was key word "quickbanned" is hilarious, let alone the idea there was even a vote to begin with. it's barely been 48 hours since the chien-pao and zamazenta-crowned ban was implemented on the ladder, and somehow the council already came to this asinine conclusion

quickbans historically are meant for shit that is egregious like regieleki, marshadow, and naganadel, not no fuckin' volcarona when solid ban and do not ban arguments can be made for it. volcarona is very easy to say is broken when you tell me it's running flamethrower, bug buzz, quiver dance, morning sun, tera blast-water, giga drain, fiery dance, tera blast-ground, substitute, tera blast-fairy, psychic, and tera blast-ghost all on the same set. another fact that is being ignored is its unpredictability has been confined with heatran's release. most variants are tera blast-water or -ground nowadays. out of all the times you could possibly act on this 'mon, it's now? not pre-home? let's also disregard how volcarona's defensive profile is necessary for the tier's stability. totally "quickban" worthy my guy... don't even suspect test it. the community really does matter! iron valiant can do the exact same shit, and i'd argue it's even more dangerous with its ability to go either physical, special, or mixed. this 'mon is probably stupid now by the way, considering you unnecessarily deleted its best check.

urshifu-rs is cheap and i don't mind it being gone, but even this shouldn't have gotten quickban'd when solid ban and do not ban arguments can be made for it too. urshifu-rs also only got a 3.0 rating on the recent survey; on the other hand, garganacl received scores of 3.44 & 3.29 in the past and it wasn't even suspect tested because "[garganacl's support] still trails well behind suspects and bans from prior points this generation or of a similar time last generation."

?!

so apparently we're gon' quickban shit that received a 3.0 now? what's the point of even having these surveys then? you really can't give urshifu-rs a week, then a community vote when you couldn't even touch shed tail for 6 fuckin' months? you want urshifu-rs gone for world cup's "competitive integrity" or whatever despite us having that dumbass ostrich legal for 3 weeks in SPL? it's walking wake all over again, except this time they actually went through with the quickban. don't even get me started on the fact zamazenta, the 3.7 rated 'mon, survived the vote. i don't think this 'mon is broken, but even i know quickbanning urshifu-rs and volcarona before this is outright blasphemy and confirms most of this council does not play. if volcarona and urshifu-rs get banned via community vote, then so be it. i won't complain. a quickban however is just unfair.

i am requesting senior staff to reverse these bans, put up formal community suspect tests for volcarona and urshifu-rs, then give us an updated council where every member actually plays the CG at a high-level both tournament & ladder-wise (2000's+). even though i heavily disagree with my brother njnp's vote, i believe adding him along with more minimalistic minds such as ima would be a good start. consider adding storm zone for ladder representation too. i would also like to request a new tier leader next gen. presidents can't run more than 2 terms and neither should Finchinator, respectfully. i hold this man in high regard as he is a world cup champion and 2-time former circuit champion, but the reality is his name is attached to the unplayable hell hole that is SS (statistics) and whatever the fuck SV is going to be at this point. while yes he is very in-touch with the community, if the decisions being made are not based off the survey results highlighted above then it doesn't matter how transparent you are. it's pointless. bro even went on my wall a couple weeks ago and argued with the raw data i presented in the link above. numbers don't lie, unless you're Finchinator kek. unironically ABR sitting on his ass and not doing shit as SM OUTL gave us an exponentially better tier with a much higher playerbase than whatever the hell i've been playing the past 3-4 years on this dystopian ass website. sure was fun to play that boring ass heavy-duty boots / static / flame body fuckfest last gen and that cancerous shed tail metagame this gen!

SV OU has lost all of its credibility with these results; put up a new survey asking whether the community agrees with the volcarona quickban or not. i guarantee you the answer will be "NO." and it will win by an overwhelming majority. i fuckin' dare you. well, it's not like these surveys hold any weight to begin with now that you quickban'd volcarona. honestly y'all should just quickban tera while you're at it because it has become clear the council is allowed to do whatever the hell they want.

clown shit man

I agree with the volc and urshifu takes
We should have a suspect test at least for volcarona, but I'd also prefer one for urshifu

Also like vert said, quick banning volc and urshifu after Chien pao and zama just got banned is a little too sudden. We should give the meta time to develop.

regarding zamazenta-hero, I personally think its too strong for OU with its speed stat and invalidates a lot of pokemon and playstyles by easily sweeping with a fast iron defense body press. The fact that volcarona got quickbanned but zamazenta-hero stays is nuts.


also please bring shed tail back I need it for wcop

 

[BT89]

chile anyways
NOTE: A majority of this post was written prior to the Volcarona + Urshifu-R ban. Nothing really changed for any of these besides them each losing one Pokemon that they were an answer to (Skeledirge to Volcarona, Houndstone & Drifblim to Urshifu), but they should generally function the same.

Underrated Bulky Ghost-types in SV OU (and why they're pretty cool!)
This metagame, while unbalanced, has a pretty decent amount of variety. Some of my favorite Pokemon currently are the defensive Ghost-types we have. I think all three of these bulky Ghosts have various unique traits that make them decently worthwhile in the current offense-driven metagame (the latter two mainly on stall, but I digress). Being able to block Rapid Spin and be immune to Fighting-type moves is absolutely huge in a metagame where hazard control is predominantly done with Rapid Spin (even if only two of these are consistent against Great Tusk). You also resist Zamazenta Body Press and various Tera Blasts from stuff like Galarian Articuno. Also, all of these have Will-O-Wisp, which is one of the most valuable moves in the tier in my eyes (even with Ursaluna). It is such a ridiculously excellent tool against offense and makes so much progress in the long term, using up recovery PP and ending the run of various offensive Pokemon who want to stick around.

Stars of the Show

Skeledirge

Skeledirge @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Torch Song
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex / Roar
- Slack Off

Skeledirge is raw. It remains an amazing answer to various dominant threats in the current meta, namely Volcarona, physical Enamorus, Galarian Articuno, Heatran, Tornadus-T, Iron Defense Zamazenta and others. I think that Roar > Hex is a very serious consideration in this metagame considering the amount of game-breaking set up that is available currently. Being able to take multiple hits and phaze out super threatening stuff like Galarian Articuno can be absolutely pivotal in making the "Boots Spam" balance / stall teams Skeledirge often finds itself on successful. Most importantly, in my opinion, Skeledirge is one of the best answers we currently have to the absolute menace that is Iron Defense Zamazenta. Uninvested Crunch only does about 35% and the combination of Will-O-Wisp forcing Zamazenta to either pivot out or rest or even being able to Roar away any boosts it can get (also negating Dauntless Shield) make it very irritating for the shield dog. I think that Skeledirge is by far the best defensive Ghost-type available (I consider Gholdengo an offensive Pokemon with an amazing defensive typing as defensive sets aren't real).

Houndstone

Houndstone @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Body Press
- Rest
- Destiny Bond / Shadow Sneak / Protect / Roar

The familiar dog returns in a new guise. Houndstone is a bit of a sleeper pick as a defensive Pokemon right now. Is it OU-worthy? Absolutely not, but it can still manage to get stuff done on certain stall teams. One of the big things about it is that with Tera Fairy, it can check Hoopa-U, probably the second most dangerous mon to stall teams currently. It is also capable of checking many other physical attackers, namely Great Tusk, Zamazenta, and Sneasler. The last slot can really be whatever but these are the three that have proven to be the most consistent for me. Destiny Bond can occasionally turn the tides against some offensive Pokemon, Shadow Sneak is ever-useful priority and is particularly neat for doing things like picking off super scary mons like Dragapult, and Protect is Protect (which got much better with Urshifu leaving).

Drifblim

Drifblim @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Aftermath
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Def / 92 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strength Sap
- Haze
- Air Slash
- Will-O-Wisp

(s/o to the Stall Discord Server for getting me hooked to this mon!)

The balloon is not useless. It is super niche but the one niche it does fulfill can be absolutely essential to success of stall teams - being an Ursaluna answer. With this EV spread, it can switch in, take an unboosted Crunch, outspeed, and Strength Sap to act as one of stall's more consistent answers to this behemoth. Of course, this mon is super niche and should not be used without super specific support, but with that support, this mon can flourish.

Common Teammates

Knock Off absorbers
Of course, one of the biggest issues with these Pokemon is their weakness to Knock Off, a move that, despite move cuts, is still pretty common through the presence of stuff like Iron Valiant, Meowscarada, and Hisuian Samurott. There aren't really any amazing Knock absorbers, but for stall teams in particular, stuff like Corviknight and Alomomola can be excellent. The latter in particular provides Wish support and has fantastic defensive with Skeledirge in particular.

Hazards
Entry hazards are a must for any team, but these Pokemon in particular all adore hazards being up thanks to being able to spinblock + having access to Will-O-Wisp to compound a ton of chip damage fast. Skeledirge in particular also completely murders Corviknight. All four of the Pokemon mentioned here (Landorus-T, Ting-Lu, Clodsire, and Garganacl) give some other form of utility (U-turn, Ruination, Toxic, and Salt Cure) to make Will-O-Wisp chip become overwhelming and hard to switch into very quickly.

And that's all for now! I hope this post could bring some insight on these underrated Pokemon, particularly for stall and balance teams (that benefitted a whole lot from these bans) and perhaps make them at least somewhat notable.​

 

[CTC]

the fact volcarona was key word "quickbanned" is hilarious, let alone the idea there was even a vote to begin with. it's barely been 48 hours since the chien-pao and zamazenta-crowned ban was implemented on the ladder, and somehow the council already came to this asinine conclusion

quickbans historically are meant for shit that is egregious like regieleki, marshadow, and naganadel, not no fuckin' volcarona when solid ban and do not ban arguments can be made for it. volcarona is very easy to say is broken when you tell me it's running flamethrower, bug buzz, quiver dance, morning sun, tera blast-water, giga drain, fiery dance, tera blast-ground, substitute, tera blast-fairy, psychic, and tera blast-ghost all on the same set. another fact that is being ignored is its unpredictability has been confined with heatran's release. most variants are tera blast-water or -ground nowadays. out of all the times you could possibly act on this 'mon, it's now? not pre-home? let's also disregard how volcarona's defensive profile is necessary for the tier's stability. totally "quickban" worthy my guy... don't even suspect test it. the community really does matter! iron valiant can do the exact same shit, and i'd argue it's even more dangerous with its ability to go either physical, special, or mixed. this 'mon is probably stupid now by the way, considering you unnecessarily deleted its best check.

urshifu-rs is cheap and i don't mind it being gone, but even this shouldn't have gotten quickban'd when solid ban and do not ban arguments can be made for it too. urshifu-rs also only got a 3.0 rating on the recent survey; on the other hand, garganacl received scores of 3.44 & 3.29 in the past and it wasn't even suspect tested because "[garganacl's support] still trails well behind suspects and bans from prior points this generation or of a similar time last generation."

?!

so apparently we're gon' quickban shit that received a 3.0 now? what's the point of even having these surveys then? you really can't give urshifu-rs a week, then a community vote when you couldn't even touch shed tail for 6 fuckin' months? you want urshifu-rs gone for world cup's "competitive integrity" or whatever despite us having that dumbass ostrich legal for 3 weeks in SPL? it's walking wake all over again, except this time they actually went through with the quickban. don't even get me started on the fact zamazenta, the 3.7 rated 'mon, survived the vote. i don't think this 'mon is broken, but even i know quickbanning urshifu-rs and volcarona before this is outright blasphemy and confirms most of this council does not play. if volcarona and urshifu-rs get banned via community vote, then so be it. i won't complain. a quickban however is just unfair.

i am requesting senior staff to reverse these bans, put up formal community suspect tests for volcarona and urshifu-rs, then give us an updated council where every member actually plays the CG at a high-level both tournament & ladder-wise (2000's+). even though i heavily disagree with my brother njnp's vote, i believe adding him along with more minimalistic minds such as ima would be a good start. consider adding storm zone for ladder representation too. i would also like to request a new tier leader next gen. presidents can't run more than 2 terms and neither should Finchinator, respectfully. i hold this man in high regard as he is a world cup champion and 2-time former circuit champion, but the reality is his name is attached to the unplayable hell hole that is SS (statistics) and whatever the fuck SV is going to be at this point. while yes he is very in-touch with the community, if the decisions being made are not based off the survey results highlighted above then it doesn't matter how transparent you are. it's pointless. bro even went on my wall a couple weeks ago and argued with the raw data i presented in the link above. numbers don't lie, unless you're Finchinator kek. unironically ABR sitting on his ass and not doing shit as SM OUTL gave us an exponentially better tier with a much higher playerbase than whatever the hell i've been playing the past 3-4 years on this dystopian ass website. sure was fun to play that boring ass heavy-duty boots / static / flame body fuckfest last gen and that cancerous shed tail metagame this gen!

SV OU has lost all of its credibility with these results; put up a new survey asking whether the community agrees with the volcarona quickban or not. i guarantee you the answer will be "NO." and it will win by an overwhelming majority. i fuckin' dare you. well, it's not like these surveys hold any weight to begin with now that you quickban'd volcarona. honestly y'all should just quickban tera while you're at it because it has become clear the council is allowed to do whatever the hell they want.

clown shit man

Great post, I would like to add to this by buttressing the credibility of this post along with a general overview of high-ladder sentiment regarding the bans. I have talked to several people who are in the top 10 (a reputable TD can confirm with me so as not to leak any alts), and the vast majority of them consider urshifu + zama to be overwhelmingly unhealthy for the metagame while the others being at most controversial. As much as I would like to see dog and shifu gone and as much as I dislike facing volc, the correct choice to uphold the integrity of the tier is to make the fair judgement that dog and shifu undermine competitiveness while volc is an essential part of the sv ecosystem, providing valuable checks to threats such as valiant, enamorus, gholdengo, and a myriad other mons that may or may not go out of control should said balance be jeopardized (think about val and enam). From a logical stand point, if a vote concluded mere weeks ago ended at a 0/9 ban suddenly reversed to a 7/9 while the metagame saw no drastic changes, we should at the very least say that it was a controversial vote and speculate further, not quickban on the spot. If your wife woke up one week and wanted a divorce but last week everything was all peachy, you would ask some questions first wouldnt you? Is it my fault? Did I do anything wrong? Is that why she's been hanging out with some guy called 'the basedlord' so much lately? You dont immediately sign the papers, like cmon bro. This is a clear sign of lack of metagame knowledge, and I have survey results to prove that the top of the ladder does not share this sentiment with members of the council, many of whom do not even actively play the metagame let alone know it to any degree. Am I saying some of the members of the council are dogshit and ignorant, and should not be making policy calls? No. Im saying some of the members of the council are NOT dogshit and ignorant, namely ima and perhaps rriv/xavgb even though they have the wrong opinions on volc (i still got love for u guys). Matter of fact, if the entire council added together can muster up a single top 10 screenshot among all of them, I got 50 bucks for ya, aka the red cross, ima not included because he actually is top 10 and actually does have the good opinion of banning shifu zama and freeing the rest, speculating on dire claw in future suspects.
I am outraged by this nonsensical quickban decision. Quickbans are reserved for decidedly broken mons such as regi, genesect of the past, naganadal, kyub with icicle spear etc. things that are unfun to play against and have too big of an advantage. How can volc, a mon whose most broken days are behind it from gens 6/7/8 to pre home meta, and who has to face new threats such as heatran, rain with new abusers, dire claw hax, addition of heal bell for stall, and generally more counterplay via increased variety in the meta, be MORE broken than pre home? The fact that these council members flipflopped so hard and made this terrible policy decision makes me question not only their ability to sit on the council further, but also integrity. Either they know whats right and wrong about the meta and want to flex their power over the player base, or they simply do not care, as other than utter incompetence, I struggle to come up with an alternative explanation.
Like Vert mentioned, we have suffered through a boring generation of SS and a near unplayable shed tail meta which included espathra for 3 months, we see the capabilities lacking, and as a community we must speak up. Players and community members such as myself, Blunder, and Pokeaim would love to offer our insight to the council, because not only do we play competitively and are involved in the peak ladder ecosystem, we also have our ear to the streets via feedback from videos and posts on their respective walls.
Fellow Smogonites, we must ask that the council listen to the people. After all, love for this game and the joy I get from playing it are the only reasons I am around the game after 10 years. If we are to keep the community happy and keep the game enjoyable, we must let the people's voices be heard. I genuinely feel like the surveys have done a better job illuminating the brokens and fairs among new drops, and the community has consistently had logical arguments and solid opinions for past bans and other policy decisions. If the people's voices are not heard, we must revolt. Who gives a fuck about the electoral college anyways, fuckem.

--Revolutionary, CTC

 

[TheTraininator]

I don’t like the precedent the Volcarona quickban sets either but my god you guys need to stop talking like supervillains lmao

 

[WohMi]

its ability to boost bulk

Calm Mind Iron Val

and or cripple the opponents attack

Iron Defense Garg, Wisp Pult, Encore Valiant, Taunt Roaring Moon

none of those capitalize on fucking with you purely based on what tera it could be running quite as much as volc does

Viable Teras Baxcalibur can run include: Dragon, Fairy, Ice, Ground and Poison if you're a maniac like me.
Garganacl can run Water, Fairy, Ghost, Fighting, Flying.
Kingambit (whom I didn't mention, but should've because I feel he's an even bigger fraud than Volcarona) can run Fire, Flying, Dark, Fighting, Water, Fairy, Ghost

Volc being able to tera into a different type that suits its needs better is not a Volc-only exclusive. All of the mons I posted can and do regularly change teras in order to mindgame opponents.

this is just my two cents as someone who's never actually lost to volc on ladder though.

Oh, okay then.

 

[Carl The Turtle]

Very good for glaceon

252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ursaluna: 578-684 (124.5 - 147.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sneasler: 289-342 (96 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 214-253 (55.1 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
glaceon solos the OU metagame, straight to A tier at minimum

 

[Charles Darwin]

To be honest, I think this would be the first time this generation I hard disagree with the Council's decision. SVOU has been pretty chaotic but I think they've managed pretty damn well... until a pair of the most baffling quickbans I've seen in a looooong time. Gears, Chien, Eleki- they were capital B broken. I don't think anyone thinks they needed a test to be booted- but to say Volcarona and Urshifu are even nearly as bad would be pretty stupid. The council veering so far and hard from the general playerbase's wishes is quite worrying to me. What was the survey for, if Zam and Sneasler stay untouched while Urshi and Volc are escorted from the premises? Heck, if it had been a suspect test for the two I wouldn't have been cross at all. But a quickban is crazy. Even Chien Pao got a suspect the first time around. Volcarona in particular has been around since the start of the generation, and the surrounding meta just got stronger. Even its old nemesis Heatran is back. If it deserves a quickban now, then what in the great googly moogly was happening for the last six months?

Look, I'll keep my piece short- I'm not some decorated tournament player, just some guy who shows up on the OU leaderboards once in a while. Maybe my takes on tier balance are bullshit. Maybe in a few months people will look back and laugh at everyone who thought Volc and Urshi deserved a chance. I just think that the council probably should have taken it a bit slower this time, and that it's only expected if the playerbase isn't happy.

Justice for Matchup Moth, I guess...

 

[awyp]

From a logical stand point, if a vote concluded mere weeks ago ended at a 0/9 ban suddenly reversed to a 7/9 while the metagame saw no drastic changes, we should at the very least say that it was a controversial vote and speculate further, not quickban on the spot. If your wife woke up one week and wanted a divorce but last week everything was all peachy, you would ask some questions first wouldnt you? Is it my fault? Did I do anything wrong? Is that why she's been hanging out with some guy called 'the basedlord' so much lately? You dont immediately sign the papers, like cmon bro.

AYO WHY IS THIS SO ACCURATE

 

[spidget]

butt
--Revolutionary, CTC

 

[lolgod3]

Psyspam is in the grave now

 

[WohMi]

--Revolutionary, CTC

 

[DaemonChop]

Finchinator skilled tierleader but that is not normally, This very very insane....They need to check him discord and paypal.....Maybe he not cheating but maybe he voting dirty ...and this cant seem on council vote..He needs to check-up....Terrastalization SWT Cheater with Streaming.....I think tera still cheating...Finchinator using big stall on PRO players ,ON BIG Votes.Maybe everyone dont knows him trick.He incredible....I want to ask his where is the comming of your Toxapex's ?

 

[DaemonChop]

Side note how does Ursh and Volc being gone affect my beloved Samurott-H? Seems like a big win for the mon but those mons definitely enjoyed having it alongside them

 

[Mikegengsta]

Psyspam is in the grave now

Why is that? Just curious.

 

[June Heat]

Why is that? Just curious.

The strategy started using Tera Psychic Volc as one of their win cons

 

[ninth]

feel like psyspam (particularly that one mind gaming one) died a couple weeks ago when rott came in with a dark-type stab that sets spikes, this is extra soil over the coffin

 

[Azery]

Calm Mind Iron Val

Iron Defense Garg, Wisp Pult, Encore Valiant, Taunt Roaring Moon

Viable Teras Baxcalibur can run include: Dragon, Fairy, Ice, Ground and Poison if you're a maniac like me.
Garganacl can run Water, Fairy, Ghost, Fighting, Flying.
Kingambit (whom I didn't mention, but should've because I feel he's an even bigger fraud than Volcarona) can run Fire, Flying, Dark, Fighting, Water, Fairy, Ghost

Volc being able to tera into a different type that suits its needs better is not a Volc-only exclusive. All of the mons I posted can and do regularly change teras in order to mindgame opponents.

Oh, okay then.

CM iron val is a pretty valid rebuttal but also much more of a "it can only come in to do it once" with how booster energy works(though it really should be the only time it needs to), whereas Volc, especially its bulkier sets can do it several times.

don't think iron defense/wisp/encore/taunt quite compare to volc running wisp+quiver but i see where you're going with it and completely renege on the tera point. its not the only one that can do that, just probably the most extreme version of it, maybe second to kingambit in that regard.

and hard to lose to volc when ur running screens cheese with 50 priority moves

 

[Tio Chico]

A little more aggressive mode before anyone decides to temporarily close this thread (which it should have already), please don't feel like a personal attack. Decisions have been made and everyone has mixed feelings right now.
Volcarona 50 mentions and QB, Terastal 200+ and nothing? Action for both would be the fairest.
Terastal; I don't give a f@ck about tournaments or their stability.
I agree with Urshifu, he got new tools, and he doesn't have to worry about Scald spam anymore.
I strongly disagree with Zamazenta Hero remaining, it had a considerable council vote and much higher support in the survey than other Pokémon. A common denominator must be considered for the future.
The new toy syndrome (old that came back) interfered with the available days before the untouchable tournament.
QB quantity is totally OK. In fact, it banishes everything at once if it's not to mess with Terastal.
Again, as is common with my posts, I express my sincere respect and appreciation for Finchinator's work.
We have no precedent with launches so we're walking on eggshells without being able to please everyone.
Mention to Ausma and the other council members who started to speak out, thank you. Anyone who doesn't want to speak publicly should reconsider their stay at the council, it's time for transparency. Yes that was rude coming from a casual ladder player but someone needs to say something, sorry. At least my contributor badge shows that I care just enough to get to this point.
The metagame satisfaction results are sad, but a lot of good work can be done.
Terastal shouldn't be untouchable, Dinamax wasn't. At least let people discuss and decide something.
Simple majority of 50% +1 would do a lot for PUBLIC suspects. Players lost 2 weeks playing, posting, thinking, deciding, so 59% lose? Leave the supermajority to the council.
Also item clause discussion anyone?, HDB and Booster Energy spam is painful. Light Clay, until pro-ban but another priorities.

 

[Charles Darwin]

the fact volcarona was key word "quickbanned" is hilarious, let alone the idea there was even a vote to begin with. it's barely been 48 hours since the chien-pao and zamazenta-crowned ban was implemented on the ladder, and somehow the council already came to this asinine conclusion

quickbans historically are meant for shit that is egregious like regieleki, marshadow, and naganadel, not no fuckin' volcarona when solid ban and do not ban arguments can be made for it. volcarona is very easy to say is broken when you tell me it's running flamethrower, bug buzz, quiver dance, morning sun, tera blast-water, giga drain, fiery dance, tera blast-ground, substitute, tera blast-fairy, psychic, and tera blast-ghost all on the same set. another fact that is being ignored is its unpredictability has been confined with heatran's release. most variants are tera blast-water or -ground nowadays. out of all the times you could possibly act on this 'mon, it's now? not pre-home? let's also disregard how volcarona's defensive profile is necessary for the tier's stability. totally "quickban" worthy my guy... don't even suspect test it. the community really does matter! iron valiant can do the exact same shit, and i'd argue it's even more dangerous with its ability to go either physical, special, or mixed. this 'mon is probably stupid now by the way, considering you unnecessarily deleted its best check.

urshifu-rs is cheap and i don't mind it being gone, but even this shouldn't have gotten quickban'd when solid ban and do not ban arguments can be made for it too. urshifu-rs also only got a 3.0 rating on the recent survey; on the other hand, garganacl received scores of 3.44 & 3.29 in the past and it wasn't even suspect tested because "[garganacl's support] still trails well behind suspects and bans from prior points this generation or of a similar time last generation."

?!

so apparently we're gon' quickban shit that received a 3.0 now? what's the point of even having these surveys then? you really can't give urshifu-rs a week, then a community vote when you couldn't even touch shed tail for 6 fuckin' months? you want urshifu-rs gone for world cup's "competitive integrity" or whatever despite us having that dumbass ostrich legal for 3 weeks in SPL? it's walking wake all over again, except this time they actually went through with the quickban. don't even get me started on the fact zamazenta, the 3.7 rated 'mon, survived the vote. i don't think this 'mon is broken, but even i know quickbanning urshifu-rs and volcarona before this is outright blasphemy and confirms most of this council does not play. if volcarona and urshifu-rs get banned via community vote, then so be it. i won't complain. a quickban however is just unfair.

i am requesting senior staff to reverse these bans, put up formal community suspect tests for volcarona and urshifu-rs, then give us an updated council where every member actually plays the CG at a high-level both tournament & ladder-wise (2000's+). even though i heavily disagree with my brother njnp's vote, i believe adding him along with more minimalistic minds such as ima would be a good start. consider adding storm zone for ladder representation too. i would also like to request a new tier leader next gen. presidents can't run more than 2 terms and neither should Finchinator, respectfully. i hold this man in high regard as he is a world cup champion and 2-time former circuit champion, but the reality is his name is attached to the unplayable hell hole that is SS (statistics) and whatever the fuck SV is going to be at this point. while yes he is very in-touch with the community, if the decisions being made are not based off the survey results highlighted above then it doesn't matter how transparent you are. it's pointless. bro even went on my wall a couple weeks ago and argued with the raw data i presented in the link above. numbers don't lie, unless you're Finchinator kek. unironically ABR sitting on his ass and not doing shit as SM OUTL gave us an exponentially better tier with a much higher playerbase than whatever the hell i've been playing the past 3-4 years on this dystopian ass website. sure was fun to play that boring ass heavy-duty boots / static / flame body fuckfest last gen and that cancerous shed tail metagame this gen!

SV OU has lost all of its credibility with these results; put up a new survey asking whether the community agrees with the volcarona quickban or not. i guarantee you the answer will be "NO." and it will win by an overwhelming majority. i fuckin' dare you. well, it's not like these surveys hold any weight to begin with now that you quickban'd volcarona. honestly y'all should just quickban tera while you're at it because it has become clear the council is allowed to do whatever the hell they want.

clown shit man

I won't take sides regarding the latter half of this post, but it's difficult to disagree with the first half. The quickbans are getting more and more ridiculous the longer I think about them, especially with the playerbase's opinion clearly favouring a different approach. I would also urge the council to consider at the VERY LEAST taking a look at what the playerbase thinks regarding the bans. People are understandably very angry about this but that doesn't mean they're being irrational also.

Great post, I would like to add to this by buttressing the credibility of this post along with a general overview of high-ladder sentiment regarding the bans. I have talked to several people who are in the top 10 (a reputable TD can confirm with me so as not to leak any alts), and the vast majority of them consider urshifu + zama to be overwhelmingly unhealthy for the metagame while the others being at most controversial. As much as I would like to see dog and shifu gone and as much as I dislike facing volc, the correct choice to uphold the integrity of the tier is to make the fair judgement that dog and shifu undermine competitiveness while volc is an essential part of the sv ecosystem, providing valuable checks to threats such as valiant, enamorus, gholdengo, and a myriad other mons that may or may not go out of control should said balance be jeopardized (think about val and enam). From a logical stand point, if a vote concluded mere weeks ago ended at a 0/9 ban suddenly reversed to a 7/9 while the metagame saw no drastic changes, we should at the very least say that it was a controversial vote and speculate further, not quickban on the spot. If your wife woke up one week and wanted a divorce but last week everything was all peachy, you would ask some questions first wouldnt you? Is it my fault? Did I do anything wrong? Is that why she's been hanging out with some guy called 'the basedlord' so much lately? You dont immediately sign the papers, like cmon bro. This is a clear sign of lack of metagame knowledge, and I have survey results to prove that the top of the ladder does not share this sentiment with members of the council, many of whom do not even actively play the metagame let alone know it to any degree. Am I saying some of the members of the council are dogshit and ignorant, and should not be making policy calls? No. Im saying some of the members of the council are NOT dogshit and ignorant, namely ima and perhaps rriv/xavgb even though they have the wrong opinions on volc (i still got love for u guys). Matter of fact, if the entire council added together can muster up a single top 10 screenshot among all of them, I got 50 bucks for ya, aka the red cross, ima not included because he actually is top 10 and actually does have the good opinion of banning shifu zama and freeing the rest, speculating on dire claw in future suspects.
I am outraged by this nonsensical quickban decision. Quickbans are reserved for decidedly broken mons such as regi, genesect of the past, naganadal, kyub with icicle spear etc. things that are unfun to play against and have too big of an advantage. How can volc, a mon whose most broken days are behind it from gens 6/7/8 to pre home meta, and who has to face new threats such as heatran, rain with new abusers, dire claw hax, addition of heal bell for stall, and generally more counterplay via increased variety in the meta, be MORE broken than pre home? The fact that these council members flipflopped so hard and made this terrible policy decision makes me question not only their ability to sit on the council further, but also integrity. Either they know whats right and wrong about the meta and want to flex their power over the player base, or they simply do not care, as other than utter incompetence, I struggle to come up with an alternative explanation.
Like Vert mentioned, we have suffered through a boring generation of SS and a near unplayable shed tail meta which included espathra for 3 months, we see the capabilities lacking, and as a community we must speak up. Players and community members such as myself, Blunder, and Pokeaim would love to offer our insight to the council, because not only do we play competitively and are involved in the peak ladder ecosystem, we also have our ear to the streets via feedback from videos and posts on their respective walls.
Fellow Smogonites, we must ask that the council listen to the people. After all, love for this game and the joy I get from playing it are the only reasons I am around the game after 10 years. If we are to keep the community happy and keep the game enjoyable, we must let the people's voices be heard. I genuinely feel like the surveys have done a better job illuminating the brokens and fairs among new drops, and the community has consistently had logical arguments and solid opinions for past bans and other policy decisions. If the people's voices are not heard, we must revolt. Who gives a fuck about the electoral college anyways, fuckem.

--Revolutionary, CTC

Well fucking said. Not only did the council make a pretty rash decision, they also went directly against community opinion. It really does feel like I'm some ten year old being told that 'mother knows best', except in this case I'm pretty sure that mother does not in fact know best.

Gotta turn down the Agency coup though, how's Blunder gonna win a 6-3 supermajority if he can't even win 5-1 against Pex?

 

[RoyalDispenser]

Its so insane to me that zama-H everyone knows for a god damn fact never should've dropped to OU stays in OU longer post home then a mon that's been in the tier for 6+ months and everyone agrees has counterplay. The council genuinely thinks zama-H suspect test would result in a close suspect over any of the others? Send some of that good shit my way too. Can't wait for gen 10 when we finally suspect tera cause we gotta suspect other things like a damn dog they was home dropped.

I'm thrilled the council is proactive with banning shit, but this is one of the false negatives of that, we're now strictly in relying on good faith the council will allow a vote to properly suspect test or revisit the decision after tera is tested. Which we cannot guarantee will happen cause even though the council is as transparent as ever, they have voiced in their reasonings this is purely a personally decision such as making it easier to prepare for WCOP, which idk why we decided to host a ban wave before at all in that case cause some of the council member's specifically state they voted with it coming up in mind either being forced into a fast decision or not experiencing it well enough. 0-9 to 7-2? Hell fucking no.

Idk why the council is so fucking slow for suspect test when they used to be back-to-back in previous gens, but instantaneous when a meta starts and then continuously instantaneous days after the previous quick ban wave... its like when the council puts something on radar they intend spam quick ban vote it every week until it works or until we eventually decide enough is enough and wait a month, suspect test for a whole month, then wait another month for before the next test...

 

[TibarnWasTaken]

Volc being banned feels like a long time coming honestly and I’d be pretty happy under different circumstances. It should’ve been suspected, quickban is od

 

[Olivine]

RIP my mothy child, hoping you will be retested at a later point in a more stable meta.

On another note most of the early radar is gone now. Hoping the dog is the next to go on a qb, and if anything were to happen to sneasler/ursaluna for it to be on a suspect test.

 

[Magcargo]

From a logical stand point, if a vote concluded mere weeks ago ended at a 0/9 ban suddenly reversed to a 7/9 while the metagame saw no drastic changes, we should at the very least say that it was a controversial vote and speculate further, not quickban on the spot. If your wife woke up one week and wanted a divorce but last week everything was all peachy, you would ask some questions first wouldnt you? Is it my fault? Did I do anything wrong? Is that why she's been hanging out with some guy called 'the basedlord' so much lately? You dont immediately sign the papers, like cmon bro.

Like all rocky relationships, the one with Volcarona was always troubled, but OU Council tolerated it for the children (the playerbase). The papers and process for a separation were always being talked about, but looming uncertainty of their HOME compatibility led them to withold their reservations for a time. Even last week, while the vote may have been 0-9, it was not because the OU Council saw Volc as a valuable part of the family, but because worse evils existed that needed to purged.

However, upon obtaining their HOME, the OU council noticed that Volc had not changed its old habits. Despite having multiple psychiatric sessions with Heatran, Volc would just Tera Blast its way out of it. Heatran's newfound loss of Toxicity made even it no longer want to interact with Volcarona, as it Quiver Danced around its retorts and Taunts. In the end, Volcarona continued being Volcarona, and the OU Council, after months of tolerating their old friend, realized that Volcarona was no longer their type.

Like all separations, the one with Volcarona was more complex and has a deeper story behind it.

 

[CTC]

Like all rocky relationships, the one with Volcarona was always troubled, but OU Council tolerated it for the children (the playerbase). The papers and process for a separation were always being talked about, but looming uncertainty of their HOME compatibility led them to withold their reservations for a time. Even last week, while the vote may have been 0-9, it was not because the OU Council saw Volc as a valuable part of the family, but because worse evils existed that needed to purged.

However, upon obtaining their HOME, the OU council noticed that Volc had not changed its old habits. Despite having multiple psychiatric sessions with Heatran, Volc would just Tera Blast its way out of it. Heatran's newfound loss of Toxicity made even it no longer want to interact with Volcarona, as it Quiver Danced around its retorts and Taunts. In the end, Volcarona continued being Volcarona, and the OU Council, after months of tolerating their old friend, realized that Volcarona was no longer their type.

Like all separations, the one with Volcarona was more complex and has a deeper story behind it.

Source: your ass
Ill give u 50 bucks if you provide proof of top 100 ladder rank right now

 

[taziathegreat]

Y’all are being so extra, unnecessary and toxic about volc. The council has been vocal and transparent about how they felt about for MONTHS now this wasn’t some invalid corrupt scheme