Project Let's discuss Pokemon that aren't allowed in BSS... YET!

[Theorymon]

New Pokemon
​

More than any previous generation, Gamefreak loves to drop new toys out of nowhere! Charizard, Cinderace, Greninja, Hisuian Zoroark, and now two entirely new Pokemon: Walking Wake and Iron Leaves!

Of course, everyone wants to talk about the new Pokemon, but there's a problem... Gamefreak doesn't allow them to be used right away! That doesn't stop us from wanting to talk about them though...

So that's what this thread is for: speculate about the potential of Pokemon that are now allowed in Battle Stadium Singles yet! You can see the current list of banned Pokemon right here.

Also, yes since GS Cup is a thing, feel free to talk about the potential for that format too! I'm sure at least some of us have thought about how Koraidon and Miraidon will fare... I know I have!

Finally, as some of you may know, Gamefreak messed up and forgot to scrub dex entries for the DLC agan. This is not a 100% confirmed list of returning Pokemon by any means, but feel free to discuss that here too! Note that legendary Pokemon are likely not there because in Sword / Shield, most of them did NOT appear in the dex. The pastebin can be found here

Just to make things a bit easier, I complied a list of major looking returning Pokemon for the DLCs. This is just a first pass, I may have missed some! I'm also being generous here, who knows how tera and the likes will impact these mons!

Interesting looking returning DLC mons

Porygon2
Porygon-Z
Gliscor
Excadrill
Blaziken
Primarina
Incineroar
Skarmory
Snorlax
Ninetales
Swampert
Mamoswine
Venusaur
Smeargle
Crawdaunt
Empoleon
Conkeldurr
Whimsicott
Galvantula
Araquanid
Kommo-O
Chandelure

To kick this thread off, here's something that's been swirling in my mind lately!


Iron Leaves @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fighting / Fire / Fairy
EVs: 100 HP / 156 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Night Slash / Tera Blast

So Iron Leaves has had a lot of "negative hype" lately, and that makes sense: this is not gen 1 anymore, Grass / Psychic is NOT a good typing! That being said... Iron Leaves is quite a bit bulkier than other Speed Booster Energy Pokemon, and unlike any of the bulky ones, it's got Swords Dance! So, I am pretty curious about the idea of Iron Leaves as a late game sweeper, though there are compromises you have to make every time. For example, Leaf Blade sadly needs SR support to 2HKO Dondozo since this isn't max Attack, and Dragonite is going to be an issue unless we use a Tera to specially mess with it. And of course, I don't see how this gets past Skeledirge. I did a calc and Psyblade in Electric Terrain with an Attack boost DOES potentially 2HKO but... that might be quite a lot of commitment to justify.

Something that is neat though: +2 Tera Fire Blast does 98% min to Defensive Gholdengo! I'm worried that this thing will always have coverage issues, but I think the bulk might make it worth a try whenever its allowed!

 

[StarkGod]

Psyblade is gonna be an insane wallbreak option. It's super unfortunate that walking wake doesn't get ice beam or Calm Mind.

I am excited for alolan ninetails, p2 and snorlax the most tho. P2 in particular will be a very welcome cushion relief from the relentless offensive meta we've been dealing with.

 

[Feesh Squad]

I am excited for alolan ninetails, p2 and snorlax the most tho. P2 in particular will be a very welcome cushion relief from the relentless offensive meta we've been dealing with.

I'm also super excited for P2 to return, what with being able to gain a better offensive/defensive typing, but one mon I'm curious about is Porygon-Z. With terastilization (or however it's spelled lol). PZ can do his best Z-Conversion impression arguably better, being no longer restricted to needing Normalium Z or Conversion letting it run much more diverse items and actually having a fourth moveslot. Will it actually be good? Idk, but looks like a promising mon in the future. But also:

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Tera Ice Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 228-272 (115.1 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Theorymon]

Psyblade is gonna be an insane wallbreak option. It's super unfortunate that walking wake doesn't get ice beam or Calm Mind.

I am excited for alolan ninetails, p2 and snorlax the most tho. P2 in particular will be a very welcome cushion relief from the relentless offensive meta we've been dealing with.

I did a few calcs for Tera CB Psyblade because I misread the Paldea Prologue rules, thinking they'd allow the new paradoxes and be singles. But still, might as well show the three calcs I did!

252 Atk Choice Band Quark Drive Tera-Psychic Iron Leaves Psyblade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge in Electric Terrain: 192-228 (90.9 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Quark Drive Tera-Psychic Iron Leaves Psyblade (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite in Electric Terrain: 139-164 (83.7 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Quark Drive Tera-Psychic Iron Leaves Psyblade (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo in Electric Terrain: 139-164 (85.2 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

That's some pretty outrageous damage, yeah Tera CB Psyblade WRECKS stuff under terrain! My only issue is that there's a chance we get to use Iron Leaves before Tapu Koko comes back, and the only setters we got are basically... Pincurchin, and using Electric Terrain on other paradoxes. So getting into this situation might be tough, and Psychic isn't exactly the best offensive typing to be locked into. Still, if Tapu Koko ever returns, I think this is certainly worth considering!

 

[furyofyuriy]

That's some pretty outrageous damage, yeah Tera CB Psyblade WRECKS stuff under terrain! My only issue is that there's a chance we get to use Iron Leaves before Tapu Koko comes back, and the only setters we got are basically... Pincurchin, and using Electric Terrain on other paradoxes.

So heres the thing about everyone's favorite pincushion. While it itself is a very weak mon , the MOST viable other terrain setter is... Indeedee. Rillaboom will join the fray soon, but until then Pincurchin makes for an ok hazard setter, can pivot with volt switch, and has access too sucker punch for some reason. With only one other terrain setter with an ability in the game currently, Pincurchin is arguably the better of the two in singles due to its abysmal speed.

An interesting argument can be made about Iron leaves though. It is the first pokemon too benefit from three terrains for the purpose of STAB/abilities. Grassy and Psychic boosts its base stab and electric activates both Quark Drive and Psyblade. Given it's good speed and spdef, you could even argue that Leaves could be a good hard Terrain setter with the electric seed. +1 def and either a speed or attack boost from quark drive could be decent with proper team building. The one mon truly holding Leaves back though is Gholdengo.

I think an argument can be made for a multi terrain based team with powerful partners. A core I have been theory crafting is Hawlucha/Pincurhin/Iron Leaves, with either Arboliva or Indeedee in the reserves. The 3 I mentioned cover each other very well defensively and tick off all the needed boxes. Priority, speed boosting, possible hazards, pivots, etc. I haven't fleshed out an ideal set/ ev spread yet, but I think the core could be sound at least until the release of Rillaboom.

 

[Omastar68]

So heres the thing about everyone's favorite pincushion. While it itself is a very weak mon , the MOST viable other terrain setter is... Indeedee. Rillaboom will join the fray soon, but until then Pincurchin makes for an ok hazard setter, can pivot with volt switch, and has access too sucker punch for some reason. With only one other terrain setter with an ability in the game currently, Pincurchin is arguably the better of the two in singles due to its abysmal speed.

An interesting argument can be made about Iron leaves though. It is the first pokemon too benefit from three terrains for the purpose of STAB/abilities. Grassy and Psychic boosts its base stab and electric activates both Quark Drive and Psyblade. Given it's good speed and spdef, you could even argue that Leaves could be a good hard Terrain setter with the electric seed. +1 def and either a speed or attack boost from quark drive could be decent with proper team building. The one mon truly holding Leaves back though is Gholdengo.

I think an argument can be made for a multi terrain based team with powerful partners. A core I have been theory crafting is Hawlucha/Pincurhin/Iron Leaves, with either Arboliva or Indeedee in the reserves. The 3 I mentioned cover each other very well defensively and tick off all the needed boxes. Priority, speed boosting, possible hazards, pivots, etc. I haven't fleshed out an ideal set/ ev spread yet, but I think the core could be sound at least until the release of Rillaboom.

I wouldn't necessarily agree Pincurchin itself is weak...but anyways. Could Iron Leaves run Iron Defense, similar to your idea, or Megahorn/X-Scissor for the mirror?

 

[Feesh Squad]

I wouldn't necessarily agree Pincurchin itself is weak...but anyways. Could Iron Leaves run Iron Defense, similar to your idea, or Megahorn/X-Scissor for the mirror?

I guess it could run Iron Defense, but genuine question why would you? Iron Leaves has an atrocious defensive typing and no Body Press to benefit from it. As for your second question, it learns Night Slash which hits in the mirror and even then, I'm not convinced it would be common enough for mirrors to happen frequently.

 

[Theorymon]

So heres the thing about everyone's favorite pincushion. While it itself is a very weak mon , the MOST viable other terrain setter is... Indeedee. Rillaboom will join the fray soon, but until then Pincurchin makes for an ok hazard setter, can pivot with volt switch, and has access too sucker punch for some reason. With only one other terrain setter with an ability in the game currently, Pincurchin is arguably the better of the two in singles due to its abysmal speed.

An interesting argument can be made about Iron leaves though. It is the first pokemon too benefit from three terrains for the purpose of STAB/abilities. Grassy and Psychic boosts its base stab and electric activates both Quark Drive and Psyblade. Given it's good speed and spdef, you could even argue that Leaves could be a good hard Terrain setter with the electric seed. +1 def and either a speed or attack boost from quark drive could be decent with proper team building. The one mon truly holding Leaves back though is Gholdengo.

I think an argument can be made for a multi terrain based team with powerful partners. A core I have been theory crafting is Hawlucha/Pincurhin/Iron Leaves, with either Arboliva or Indeedee in the reserves. The 3 I mentioned cover each other very well defensively and tick off all the needed boxes. Priority, speed boosting, possible hazards, pivots, etc. I haven't fleshed out an ideal set/ ev spread yet, but I think the core could be sound at least until the release of Rillaboom.

My issue with using the other terrain setters for Iron Leaves is mainly that the crazy Psyblade calcs come from the Quark Drive boost AND the 50% BP boost hitting at the same time. For example, if we do that same damage calc against Gholdengo under Psychic Terrain:

252 Atk Choice Band Iron Leaves Psyblade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo in Psychic Terrain: 69-82 (42.3 - 50.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

It's basically doing about half as much as under Electric Terrain, which at that point I don't think is really worth it if you're planning to break through stuff with Psyblade. I feel like if you aren't going to have Electric Terrain set up, you might as well try the whole late game SD sweeper idea, or run Night Slash to at least hit Gholdengo hard. And to be clear, while I'm interested in Iron Leaves partly because of its interesting bulk as an SD mon, and partly because "wow this does insane damage under Electric Terrain", I'm not sure if it'll really be a major mon, certainly not important enough to run Megahorn for mirror matches at least!

I haven't done the calcs yet for self activating Electric Terrain with a seed yet though. I actually sorta want to do that with some other paradoxes later and see if anything interesting comes about!

The ruins will be legal next season, and just a random Chi-Yu thought

Anyways, now that we know that the ruins will be legal starting in April with Regulation C, I figure now is a good time to bring them up! I haven't done any super interesting calcs with them yet, though I think from the November metagame, we all know that Chi-Yu, Chien-Pao, and Ting-Lu are likely to be MAJOR metagame forces, and maybe Wo-Chien will carve out a niche between Meowscarada and Brute Bonnet...

Anyways, an interaction to remember about the ruin abilities is that the same abilities are immune to each other. So for example, Chi-Yu is immune to the Beads of Ruin from another Chi-Yu. This has led to this fun little meme calc we've talked about on Discord before, I think around the time OU banned Chi-Yu!


252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Chi-Yu: 49-58 (37.6 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So that's still a hefty amount of damage, but yes, AV Chi-Yu can avoid getting 2HKOed by Chi-Yu's STABs! Of course, things change if it Terastallizes:

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera-Fighting Chi-Yu Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Chi-Yu: 120-144 (92.3 - 110.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

So yeah, AV Chi-Yu is not some hilarious wondrous counter to Specs Chi-Yu, and Chien-Pao has even more to worry about considering its access to Sacred Sword for mirrors. And admittedly, I feel like people might just stick to making the big AV mons fire-resistant (Tera Fire Bax already makes sense for some match ups tbh), but this meta hasn't started yet so I could be totally wrong about these predicted developments! And of course, I expect Chi-Yu is still gonna be pretty vulnerable to Focus Sash cheese and the crazy amount of priority likely flying around when it enters.

Still, I bring it up for a reason beyond the memeing: I do wonder if there might be some more clever ways around Chi-Yu (and to a lesser extent, Chien-Pao). I think these two are going to be huge offensive forces, and defensive counter-play is likely to be tricky, though maybe not as hard as OU due to the "trading blows" nature of 3v3 maybe being more accepting of high power, as we've seen with Flutter Mane! At the very least, maybe AV Chi-Yu might make sense as a back-up item when you need say, choiced items on other stuff, 55 / 120 SpD isn't the worst thing in the world I guess!

 

[DerpySuX]

These are definitely two Pokémon of all time

 

[Omastar68]

This thread seems more relevant with reg D soon. What teras might stuff use? Regieleki for instance is great with electric moves, so should it further that or try hitting grounds?

Are there any new mons from hisui that AREN'T good? They all like look strong, I especially expect the 2 that set hazards with signature moves to be good.

Also eviolite ursaring/Qwilfish-h, or Ursaluna/ Overqwil?

 

[furyofyuriy]

Are there any new mons from hisui that AREN'T good? They all like look strong, I especially expect the 2 that set hazards with signature moves to be good.

I would say H-Typhlosion and Wyrdeer are the weakest of the bunch, while H- Braviary is a coin toss on being bad in our current meta. The treasures of ruin basically invalidate the former 2 and honestly i feel that base Typhlosion with flash fire is better for dealing with Chi-Yu, while also not worrying about other Dark STAB attacks.

I think that Trick Room could make waves soon however. Ursaluna is an absolute monster and trick room this gen hasn't had many good sweepers. But with regileki and rain soon to be taking the tier by storm, the bear can topple them all down.

 

[DerpySuX]

Sneasler needs 154 speed EVs to outspeed scarf Dragapult after unburden activates

that is all

 

[DerpySuX]

Played a bunch of Reg D games with luisin earlier and it was a ton of fun. So far what I see being good as far as new additions go as follows, this is in no particular order and the links are to replays showing off what the Mon can do.

Ursaluna - it can literally clean sweep if you play it right
Regieleki - no replay of it going off but you want a ground type trust me lol
Sneasler - really, really good sweeper with unburden
Zapdos - still punishes contact moves like nothing else

Other things to keep an eye on include the usual suspects, Heatran, Lando, the usual.

Enamorus is worth considering too, and I would highly recommend breeding for all female teams as a precaution for it. Dragonite shows no signs of slowing down at all, as you could tell from the replays both myself and luisin still had it on our teams (also this lol).

Espathra stocks are probably going to go up in this meta, the ruins not being mandatory on most teams anymore and the wider pool of mons that can threaten them open more avenues for it to get a sweep going.

I haven’t tried anything with Basculegion yet, but I do think that it has some potential, adaptability or swift swim in conjunction with Last Respects and Wave Crash sounds like a devastating combination. I would assume if this catches on we see Garganacl stocks go way up, specifically tera Water or tera Grass to resist both STABs.

I’m pretty excited for Regulation D, while I only played with luisin and a few games with rarre so far, it’s been a ton of fun, and the metagame feels more dynamic than it has all generation. I’m really looking forward to it

 

[Thorni]

Lilligant-Hisui @ Wide Lens
Ability: Hustle
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tera Blast
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Victory Dance

Tera Blast Fire to resist Fairy and Fire, Hit Gholdengo and most other types neutrally and an immunity to Will-O-Wisp.

 

[furyofyuriy]

Lilligant-Hisui (F) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Victory Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Close Combat
- Tera Blast

id probably change the evs if this thing can survive anything that doesnt send it to hell but i would like to put this set i thought up in 4 minutes on the radar. this feels like some off meta jaw lock Roaring moon tbh

Don't mean to make this a one off post but you didn't add the Tera type so I have no clue what tera Blast does in this scenario.

 

[Thorni]

For a more thought out post ...

Kleavor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sharpness
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Axe
- U-turn
- Night Slash
- Close Combat

U-Turn on Samu Leads and dark types in general, this mon is surprisingly neutral to most thngs so if you HAVE to stay in on something you could probaby live if they arent getting any boosts from abilites or choice items.

Night Slash for Gholdengo and Dark weaks, Close Combat for Fighting weaks.

Stone Axe could mess up more balance / stall cores getting rocks and doing damage, you could pair it with Glowking who is good into pex since Kleavor gets walled and could chilly reception on something that tries to switch in like blissey.

Jolly lets you outspeed +Speed Pult and doesnt make Chien a speed tie.
Tera Water to resist both Water attacks and Steel attacks, useful for gholdengo and the various waters joining.\
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

252+ SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Shadow Ball vs. 116 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Decidueye-Hisui: 70-84 (39.3 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 116 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Tera-Fire Decidueye-Hisui: 42-49 (23.5 - 27.5%) -- 75.3% chance to 4HKO

AV Deci looks like a genuine option imo

Decidueye-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Scrappy
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 116 HP / 236 Atk / 4 Def / 140 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Triple Arrows
- Knock Off
- Leaf Blade
- Shadow Sneak

 

[Omastar68]

Um. I support those options, but you shouldn't post multiple times in a row. It can be hard to not, cause forum is slow as a rule, but you can alwats click edit.

Decidueye-H's Triple Arrow look scary to me, and since it's even scrappy I'd expect it to matter.

Derpy said Espathra will get better, and that's a strong mon as is imo. What handles her best? I was thinking Overqil, for Pin Misiile and the immunity/neutrality to common tera blasts. Or Qwilfish-H w/ Eviolite, I've yet to look into what's better, Overqwil/Urasaluna, or the pre evos holding that item.

 

[Thorni]

Um. I support those options, but you shouldn't post multiple times in a row. It can be hard to not, cause forum is slow as a rule, but you can alwats click edit.

Decidueye-H's Triple Arrow look scary to me, and since it's even scrappy I'd expect it to matter.

Derpy said Espathra will get better, and that's a strong mon as is imo. What handles her best? I was thinking Overqil, for Pin Misiile and the immunity/neutrality to common tera blasts. Or Qwilfish-H w/ Eviolite, I've yet to look into what's better, Overqwil/Urasaluna, or the pre evos holding that item.

Something Like Taunt, Crunch, Toxic and Barb Barrage / Poison Jab could stop it from Calm Minding Or using Substitutes with Taunt and using Toxic to put it on a Timer. The 2 Stabs to Hit Tera Fairy and its regular Typing while Using Poison Jab for More Base Power or Barb Barrage to hit harder while its poisoned.

 

[Omastar68]

Something Like Taunt, Crunch, Toxic and Barb Barrage / Poison Jab could stop it from Calm Minding Or using Substitutes with Taunt and using Toxic to put it on a Timer. The 2 Stabs to Hit Tera Fairy and its regular Typing while Using Poison Jab for More Base Power or Barb Barrage to hit harder while its poisoned.

I'm not sure about Toxic. Bad poison is a lot stronger than regular, but I think because Barb Barrage doubles in BP w/ any poison relying on it's chance for the simple kind is fine. There are some options, I was originally thinking Pin Missile for sub Espathra that have it set up already, but that might need loaded dice. Seems you could set up Minimize ON Espathra, w/ the typing, but that gets rid of the option for AV. I kinda wanted to use Fell Stinger and then there's haze to wipe the Espathra.

EDIT: 252+ Atk Overqwil Pin Missile (4 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Espathra: 176-216 (102.9 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So that would mostly be w/ dice. 1 hit breaks a non-bulky sub, so you ohko cause it took hp off to do sub. Full phys. bulk Espathra CAN take the 4 hits, w/ a very good chance even if you bug tera. I'm sorta thinking bug tera, it even resists the 1 base weakness. Unsure between Minimize+loaded dice, or AV w/ w/e. Agility may work, w/ Fell Stinger. The stats leave something to be desired, but Intimidate is still good, and the typing is one of the best(plain electric is also ground weak, so the only better is really levitate plain electric, an dthat takes Eelektross or tera.)

I need, or at least should consider, a grounded poison, so this works. Curious how swift swim ones would do in rain(seems ok,) and how it compares to eviolite Qwilfish-h(always wanted Qwilfish to be viable.) Looked up and it seems more favorable to the pre-evo then Dudunsparce vs. Dunsparce. I'm not sure I'd say it's the better mon, I hope someone has thoughts on this. The speed is the same, though the pre-evo loses a bit everywhere, and lots nowhere. It gets bulkier w/ Eviolite, except on the special side IF Overqwil is AV. And I still don't know if I want that, esp. cause I have an AV user already, I'd have to change...

 

[Thorni]

I'm not sure about Toxic. Bad poison is a lot stronger than regular, but I think because Barb Barrage doubles in BP w/ any poison relying on it's chance for the simple kind is fine. There are some options, I was originally thinking Pin Missile for sub Espathra that have it set up already, but that might need loaded dice. Seems you could set up Minimize ON Espathra, w/ the typing, but that gets rid of the option for AV. I kinda wanted to use Fell Stinger and then there's haze to wipe the Espathra.

EDIT: 252+ Atk Overqwil Pin Missile (4 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Espathra: 176-216 (102.9 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So that would mostly be w/ dice. 1 hit breaks a non-bulky sub, so you ohko cause it took hp off to do sub. Full phys. bulk Espathra CAN take the 4 hits, w/ a very good chance even if you bug tera. I'm sorta thinking bug tera, it even resists the 1 base weakness. Unsure between Minimize+loaded dice, or AV w/ w/e. Agility may work, w/ Fell Stinger. The stats leave something to be desired, but Intimidate is still good, and the typing is one of the best(plain electric is also ground weak, so the only better is really levitate plain electric, an dthat takes Eelektross or tera.)

I need, or at least should consider, a grounded poison, so this works. Curious how swift swim ones would do in rain(seems ok,) and how it compares to eviolite Qwilfish-h(always wanted Qwilfish to be viable.) Looked up and it seems more favorable to the pre-evo then Dudunsparce vs. Dunsparce. I'm not sure I'd say it's the better mon, I hope someone has thoughts on this. The speed is the same, though the pre-evo loses a bit everywhere, and lots nowhere. It gets bulkier w/ Eviolite, except on the special side IF Overqwil is AV. And I still don't know if I want that, esp. cause I have an AV user already, I'd have to change...

Bulky +4 0 SpA Espathra Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Qwilfish-Hisui: 72-85 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252+ Atk Qwilfish-Hisui Pin Missile (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Espathra: 150-180 (74.2 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
(You could SD again, Tera, go for another Pin Missle or get 4 Hits which have a 93% chance of ohkoing bulky)
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Non Bulky +3 252 SpA Espathra Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Qwilfish-Hisui: 75-89 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish-Hisui Pin Missile (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Espathra: 120-144 (70.5 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(IDK if this helps or if this is what you wanted but since you mention commiting tera might as well tank and SD instead)

 

[Omastar68]

Bulky +4 0 SpA Espathra Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Qwilfish-Hisui: 72-85 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252+ Atk Qwilfish-Hisui Pin Missile (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Espathra: 150-180 (74.2 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
(You could SD again, Tera, go for another Pin Missle or get 4 Hits which have a 93% chance of ohkoing bulky)
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Non Bulky +3 252 SpA Espathra Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Qwilfish-Hisui: 75-89 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Qwilfish-Hisui Pin Missile (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Espathra: 120-144 (70.5 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(IDK if this helps or if this is what you wanted but since you mention commiting tera might as well tank and SD instead)

Ah SD. Yea I might. My instinct was to haze Espathra but I'll keep SD In mind for sure ty.

Also, the only other Mon I'm planning to try right from the get go is Decidueye-h. Should it be roost or synthesis? With past paradox, I'd sorta expect sun to be more common than the other 3 combined. This would make synthesis better. Also unsure of Tera, fighting or fire. Fighting buffs op triple arrows, but hurts a lot vs flutter(well it's already fighting so it's not worse, but fire saves the match up as stated above.)

 

[Thorni]

Ah SD. Yea I might. My instinct was to haze Espathra but I'll keep SD In mind for sure ty.

Also, the only other Mon I'm planning to try right from the get go is Decidueye-h. Should it be roost or synthesis? With past paradox, I'd sorta expect sun to be more common than the other 3 combined. This would make synthesis better. Also unsure of Tera, fighting or fire. Fighting buffs op triple arrows, but hurts a lot vs flutter(well it's already fighting so it's not worse, but fire saves the match up as stated above.)

Roost sounds more consistent early in the meta, With Rain gaining alot more mons In Overqwill, Basculeigon, Urshifu, Palafin, Regieleki and Thundurus-Therian coming being released i would not be surprised if more people at least tried rain. Synthesis goes from 1/2 normally to 1/4 in rain, But at the end of the day its your call since a 2/3 heal in Sun sounds almost too good to pass up. (This is just speculation though)

And for Tera id go for something defensive, Deci is really slow so Living for more turns will let you profit of of something like the defense drop or crit for more turns. (Triple Arrows into Shadow Sneak for a 1-2 Combo into Gholdengo)

If your Scarf you could go Fighting but its 90 bp coming from a 112 atack stat and you hit only 184 speed with Jolly anyway. so at that point id just go Close Combat for a Nuke even if Triple Arrows Crit does about 20% more than CC.

 

[Omastar68]

Ok so fire thanks. I'm not sure what moves really, will experiment. I didn't think about strengthening rain, I'll try synthesis first, then teach roost via mirror herb if that sucks. Not sure what item to run either, I need my lefties and sitrus.

 

[Thorni]

You guys have ideas on good Trick Room setters once Reg D drops besides cress,
Ive been using a Garde Lead in Reg C to some decent sucess and im still learning how to use trick room but the maximum turns i get is 3.

 

[NOVED]

You guys have ideas on good Trick Room setters once Reg D drops besides cress,
Ive been using a Garde Lead in Reg C to some decent sucess and im still learning how to use trick room but the maximum turns i get is 3.

I know you said besides cress but it’s definitely far and away the most consistent setter. But looking at why it’s so good can give you ideas on what else you might pick. 1, it’s bulk makes it almost guaranteed to get off TR. 2, lunar dance lets you get your sweepers in for free and as fast as possible. (Lunar dance is also great cause it allows you to be way more aggressive early game)

So you want something that can almost always get TR off and get something in for free immediately. Cress is easily the best pick for me but Mimikyu is probably worth considering too cause it can do both those things. Curse can usually let mimikyu die and get your next mon in for free, it also gives you some pressure that lunar dance doesn’t do.