Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

[Magcargo]

Lando is struggling because it lacks an spamable move rn, it gets several chances to switch in but barely makes progress and just u-turns unlike when it had knock off or toxic and could cripple the rival's team. Basically it just gets chip damage over the course of the match. Tusk feels more impactful in most of the matches even if only gets the chance to knock off one or two mons or gets to spin the hazards.

Tusks in general just has a better offensive profile than Lando-T I think, which is more favorable rn. Rapid Spin / Ice Spinner / HR / CC has solid neutral coverage & can be difficult for teams to switch into. RS improving Tusk's speed tier is a big bonus since that lets it get the jump on some Pokemon that would otherwise outspeed it as they switch in like Enamorus. Close Combat's wide encompassing super effective / neutral coverage vs Pokemon like Rotom-W, Tera Normal Dragonite, Samurott-H etc. is quite a handy boon to have.

With Lando-T, I don't think it packs the same offensive threat level that Tusks does because of its lack of a real secondary STAB, though I could be wrong since it does have good boosting option in SD. Still, that inability to shift speed in a meta where speed is king kinda blows.

 

[Return to Zero]

Is Gliscor that good? Doesn't seem that fast, doesn't seem that bulky

(This is half bait, half serious question waiting to be answered with nice facts)

Same typing as Lando-T which is great, really good Defense, pretty alright Speed tier, Poison Heal, extremely good movepool with stuff like Swords Dance/Knock Off/Toxic/Roost on top of STAB Earthquake (Although it might lose some of these in the transfer). Gliscor is great.

Edit: Forgot about Defog and Stealth Rock. Gliscor is my baby boy. Love him.

 

[Ctann]

Gliscor is gonna shoot to top 10 in no time, despite 8 other viable ground types in OU. It never needed roost, roost was always a bonus.

gliscor is the new knock off absorber
Reuniclus is potentially a scald absorber?
Both are gonna make Garg viability drop lol.

technician, loaded dice Cincinno sounds like fun. Maybe it’ll get tidy up

 

[G-Luke]

Haze pex is gonna stop stored power, but it won't enjoy psyshock sets before tera that threaten it+blissey. Tera fairy haze pex with some speed creep will probably stop all CM reuni shenanigans though.
N
Also fuck HO and everything but I have enjoyed switching kingambit into pex. Dear god do not bring back scald.

True on Haze against SP, but I'd think other variants of CM do break it open.

Also big up Scald redistribution, Gamefreak righting one of the very very few wrongs they introduced this Generation.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Gliscor is gonna shoot to top 10 in no time, despite 8 other viable ground types in OU. It never needed roost, roost was always a bonus.

gliscor is the new knock off absorber
Reuniclus is potentially a scald absorber?
Both are gonna make Garg viability drop lol.

Tidy up, technician, loaded dice Cincinno sounds like fun.

Cincinno got tidy up?

 

[Ctann]

Cincinno got tidy up?

speculation, I’ll edit the post to say that

 

[Moyashi]

Lando is struggling because it lacks an spamable move rn, it gets several chances to switch in but barely makes progress and just u-turns unlike when it had knock off or toxic and could cripple the rival's team. Basically it just gets chip damage over the course of the match. Tusk feels more impactful in most of the matches even if only gets the chance to knock off one or two mons or gets to spin the hazards.

It isn't struggling. EQ is still spammable, as is uturn. And you've got a free fourth slot on defensive sets. Grass Knot is great for destroying Tusk and thus ensuring rocks stay up most of the time, also good against stuff like don or garg. Stone Edge is good filler for the fliers in the tier, I've even seen creative use of smack down+EQ. Choice scarf is also alright, rocky helmet... Even just pivoting is extremely useful in such an offensive meta.

Speaking of which, that offensive meta also hurts Tusk because it can struggle to spin at times, and defensive spin sets are honestly junk now. Of course it still brings value, but you're underestimating Lando and overestimating Tusk.

 

[G-Luke]

Detailed arguments stating why Gliscor and Great Tusk outclass and out Landorus-Therian on the back burner, highlighting all of the major nerfs allotted to Landorus-Therian over the Generational Shift

vs

Big Landoooooo

I'm not gonna lie people, I genuinely see both sides of the argument here

 

[Fenghuang]

isn't it weird how metagross is literally the only pseudo to not make it in to SV. I miss metagross, it always deserved better.

 

[G-Luke]

isn't it weird how metagross is literally the only pseudo to not make it in to SV. I miss metagross, it always deserved better.

Not only is Metagross confirmed for DLC, the Kommo-O erasure.......

 

[Moyashi]

isn't it weird how metagross is literally the only pseudo to not make it in to SV. I miss metagross, it always deserved better.

I mean it is coming back in DLC. Just hoping it gets some useful egg moves (seriously Gross has been one of the mons most indirectly nerfed through mechanics changes without being buffed to compensate. Give it some new toys pls GF).

 

[awyp]

Is Gliscor that good? Doesn't seem that fast, doesn't seem that bulky

(This is half bait, half serious question waiting to be answered with nice facts)

317 max speed is pretty good (not amazing in todays standard) but still something not to laugh about.

Underrated ability in Poison Heal that in conjunction with good defensive teras such as Fairy / Water gives it quite an annoying matchup. I would say I'm waiting for it's move pool but the move pool is what will make the determining factor of the hype.

 

[Fenghuang]

I mean it is coming back in DLC. Just hoping it gets some useful egg moves (seriously Gross has been one of the mons most indirectly nerfed through mechanics changes without being buffed to compensate. Give it some new toys pls GF).

Is it definitely coming back in DLC? Because if so my beautiful son needs so much love.

I'm curious, what egg moves do you think they can give it to make it viable, at least in UU? Would it be OU viable if it gets shift gear? Maybe even too strong?

 

[Mugenman88]

317 max speed is pretty good (not amazing in todays standard) but still something not to laugh about.

Underrated ability in Poison Heal that in conjunction with good defensive teras such as Fairy / Water gives it quite an annoying matchup. I would say I'm waiting for it's move pool but the move pool is what will make the determining factor of the hype.

I'm assuming it's not losing much stall is still gonna crumple to the taunt SD set, with tera factored in as well I don't really see how stall deals with something like tera water

 

[G-Luke]

It's in the trailer, but for the second DLC not the first.

How to make Meta viable in UU is Choice Band with Tera Blast whatever the fuck to send ur checks to the grave

 

[Fenghuang]

It's in the trailer, but for the second DLC not the first.

How to make Meta viable in UU is Choice Band with Tera Blast whatever the fuck to send ur checks to the grave

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 109-129 (21.6 - 25.5%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 192-228 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Oh wait you said UU

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tablets of Ruin Wo-Chien: 248-294 (66.3 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Hmm yeah.

 

[June Heat]

Not only is Metagross confirmed for DLC, the Kommo-O erasure.......

Kommo-o in shambles when it realizes they let a Dog in the tier

 

[Fenghuang]

Not only is Metagross confirmed for DLC, the Kommo-O erasure.......

The Kommo-O erasure is intentional

 

[Crimson Chris]

Man, did my favorite Pseudo dirty in forgetting he existed. Kommo-o deserves better.

I do wonder if Tera still is allowed and if Kommo-o comes back, how good he'd be in this meta. Prolly UU, but I am curious. I think he landed on UUBL last gen.

 

[Schpoonman]

I can finally use STAB Facade Gliscor in Standard, everything's coming up OMs.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Protect
- Facade
- Earthquake

Eff you, Ursaluna, I'm coming for you.

Hide

Do not use this set

 

[Mega Breloom]

It isn't struggling. EQ is still spammable, as is uturn. And you've got a free fourth slot on defensive sets. Grass Knot is great for destroying Tusk and thus ensuring rocks stay up most of the time, also good against stuff like don or garg. Stone Edge is good filler for the fliers in the tier, I've even seen creative use of smack down+EQ. Choice scarf is also alright, rocky helmet... Even just pivoting is extremely useful in such an offensive meta.

Speaking of which, that offensive meta also hurts Tusk because it can struggle to spin at times, and defensive spin sets are honestly junk now. Of course it still brings value, but you're underestimating Lando and overestimating Tusk.

I'm not understimating Lando, just pointing out what I have noticed while playing against it and seeing others using it. EQ and U-turn are nice, sure, but it just doesn't feel as impactful as before. Now it doesn't provide something in the long run as before in the turns it gets in (can't remove hazards, can't remove items, can't toxic set up sweepers/walls), it just u-turns 90% of the time with all the ground inmunities in the meta. Zapdos and Slowking-G do a way better job as pivots and can do more (FS pressure, toxic or spread paralysis). The lack of recovery is a big issue for a defensive pivot in this meta, while even if Tusk sometimes struggles to spin, it is the best way to remove hazards rn.

 

[Fenghuang]

Man, did my favorite Pseudo dirty in forgetting he existed. Kommo-o deserves better.

I do wonder if Tera still is allowed and if Kommo-o comes back, how good he'd be in this meta. Prolly UU, but I am curious.

My guess is probably either UU or UUBL. Feels strong enough for UU at least but idk if it has a niche in OU.

 

[Crimson Chris]

I would say I doubt Kommo-o is coming back to being a full OU mon in this hectic meta with so many other insane dragons running around lol

 

[furyofyuriy]

Is it definitely coming back in DLC? Because if so my beautiful son needs so much love.

I'm curious, what egg moves do you think they can give it to make it viable, at least in UU? Would it be OU viable if it gets shift gear? Maybe even too strong?

It's confirmed. It's in the trailer for Indigo Disk spamming meteor mash. I doubt it will get Egg moves given Beldoms whole gimmick is only learning Takedown, however Magnezone's family did so there is a chance. My guess, based off Magnezone, is that at most it will only possibly regain moves it lost access too, like Rock Polish. But we have no way of knowing until the game comes out.

_______________

Man, did my favorite Pseudo dirty in forgetting he existed. Kommo-o deserves better.

I do wonder if Tera still is allowed and if Kommo-o comes back, how good he'd be in this meta. Prolly UU, but I am curious. I think he landed on UUBL last gen.

On the Topic of Kommo-o getting shafted, an interesting problem presents itself. This isn't spoilers since it was already pulled out of the game files, but Clangorous Soul AND Clanging Scales were among the removed moves. Additionally, Decorate and Dragon Hammer were also removed, yet Alolan Egg and Alcrimie returned. So either these mons simply lost their signature attacks, or a patch might bring back some moves that were previously taken out.

 

[Mega Breloom]

It's confirmed. It's in the trailer for Indigo Disk spamming meteor mash. I doubt it will get Egg moves given Beldoms whole gimmick is only learning Takedown, however Magnezone's family did so there is a chance. My guess, based off Magnezone, is that at most it will only possibly regain moves it lost access too, like Rock Polish. But we have no way of knowing until the game comes out.

_______________


On the Topic of Kommo-o getting shafted, an interesting problem presents itself. This isn't spoilers since it was already pulled out of the game files, but Clangorous Soul AND Clanging Scales were among the removed moves. Additionally, Decorate and Dragon Hammer were also removed, yet Alolan Egg and Alcrimie returned. So either these mons simply lost their signature attacks, or a patch might bring back some moves that were previously taken out.

For DLCs movepool changes are expected, mainly for the tutors or new moves added to the game.