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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
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This has carried my alt (Glowbro's Paradise) so hard that i have to counter with #freequickclaw and #glowbroforou
If you've been laddering around 1900-2000 lately, you might have noticed a heinous trend going on. I was blessed by god's immaculate light a few days ago and constructed one of my most successful teams yet, which allowed me to break into the top 30 today (proof of peak). Even renowned players have folded to this strategy (or adopted it, albeit just for a few games), I'm talking of course about...
MONOCLAW BABYYYYYYYY"So what is monoclaw ?"
You may be familiar with the held item quick claw. It's an item that allows a pokemon holding it to have a 20% chance to move first (in its priority bracket) each turn. At first sight, a complete gimmick, unreliable and a waste of an item. BUT. What if you go... further beyond ? By using 5 quick claw abusers on the same team, you end up having a very high chance to get at least one or two crucial procs each game. These procs will grant you massive advantage whenever they happen, especially if you employ hard hitting abusers such as Iron Hands or Ursaluna. When combining this with a screens setter (in my opinion grimmsnarl is preferable to dragapult in this context as you really enjoy taunt to shut down other leads + the bulk is also nice), you increase the chances to get procs even further.
"But isn't this just luck reliant garbage ?"
Not really, if you build it correctly. Basically you're just making a Screens Bulky Offense team, which is a very dangerous playstyle in its own right, especially in the very HO oriented ladder meta, but replacing all the items with quick claw to abuse the chance of just gaining massive uncounterable advantage each turn, that stacks up with screens and the fact that all your mons are extremely bulky. You should aim to build a team that is prepared to handle all threats in the meta, as you would normally, and which doesn't rely on luck but is simply boosted by it. In that way, even if you don't get any procs at all (which again, is very unlikely since you have 5 abusers and lots of turns to get those procs), you can still win just by playing well. A lot of the featured replays I will provide are actually games where no procs happened.
"Ok, I'm in. What are the mons that work best with this ?"
As stated earlier, you're building Screens Bulky Offense. So you'll obviously need a screen setter, and I've found grimmsnarl to be the best for this, as it matches up well versus a lot of common leads (Especially Samurott-H which is 2HKOed by uninvested Spirit Break and will barely chip grimmsnarl in the process of getting spikes up as you 4x resist ceaseless edge) and has more longevity than Dragapult meaning it can come back in to get screens back up or even kill some weakened mons later in the game.
Because we're leading Grimm most games, we want mons that can cleanly beat the mons that try to abuse it, namely Kingambit. Several mons fit the bill, but the most notable is Iron Hands, which can freely SD up on even +3 gambit behind reflect as its unique fighting/electric double type resists both of gambit's stabs. You are then free to OHKO it with Wild Charge no matter the tera type they turn into should they decide to stay, or just blow something back if they switch. Iron Hands also easily beats all Great Tusks variant when behind screens (yes, even bulk up). You can always pack a tera-type such as Ghost, Fairy or Flying to guarantee this particular match-up.
Other notable mons that switch in on Gambit and scare it out effectively even at +2 or +3 behind reflect include your own Gambit (if you run low kick) and possibly Slither Wing and Copperajah (althought I haven't test them out yet and Iron Hands definitely seems like a better answer than these two.)
All the other mons you want to use follow the same archetype : Extremely bulky when invested in HP, with a set up move and the capacity to OHKO most of the tier after a boost. Here's a quick list of potential abusers, with the ones I succesfully used behind highlighted :
Baxcalibur (Swords Dance), Brute Bonnet (Growth), Crabominable (Bulk Up), Enamorus-Therian (Calm Mind), Glaceon (Calm Mind), Glastrier (Swords Dance), Hoopa-Unbound or Regular (Nasty Plot), Iron Hands (Swords Dance), Iron Thorns (Swords Dance), Kingambit (Swords Dance), Meloetta (Swords Dance or Calm Mind), Rillaboom (Swords Dance), Slither Wing (Bulk Up), Slowbro-Galar (Nasty Plot + Quick Draw for added proc chances), Ursaluna (Swords Dance).
By building your team with such bulky, strong hitting abusers, you can ensure all of these would easily trade for 1 to 2 mons while under screens, and from there on, every turn you'll have a 20% chance to pull ahead and get one more "use" out of your pokemon.
Replay Compendium
Here's all the replays me and my partner in crime Glowbro's Paradise got with this playstyle. I went ahead and classified them in terms of number of procs, just to show you that the majority of games was not decided by quick claw procs, or not by a statistically abnormal number of them.
You can see the vast majority of these only have a max of 2 procs all over the game, thus proving my point that this kind of team is not luck reliant, but just improved by getting a statiscally normal amount of quick claw procs over the course of a game. With that being said, thanks for reading this and have fun on the ladder :)
0-2 RELEVANT QUICK CLAW PROCS (Normal/Expected Odds)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891372258-40gzvv9g1l2xrg27psakclo0hh54ak4pw vs yestrday
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891581905 vs jeanmilapipe
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891588764-4hpdw3hjgymj5sj8eolr9b6rcdmpditpw vs abr fan 2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1889947307-26waq3vc4zopcr3glahvkae94mao5zppw vs Storm Zone
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1890421246-iysewotnaso19pqwh4ru80b7iqcdt8opw vs V1ctoriasfacile$$$
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1890473935-g499y1au6lsnuzfgenzmw46n4rgexu5pw vs LeBarBURR2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1890484669-kkezjqkru6tfppsotjqxn82522wpoazpw vs V1ctoriasfacile$$
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891129416-9mxxuoymezac0v6fhjylxud43ssgy4gpw vs Sufys12 (GRIMMSNARL SHAMONE SPECIAL)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891152028 vs in NY I mollywhop (rain + 0 procs)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891550436-usrzpsrficl6ppq22rsq62xk2k6hwazpw vs Melbourne Weather
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891158079 vs oxbt
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891203031 vs Shawsong (vs stall)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891277166 vs Jontrendline (crit didnt matter, still had other mons to beat cress)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891286991-s7mt326lu2r8n4jyawslnh6n7sle7umpw vs TRIPLE WHAMMY
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891606748-lm3lotd3b1mf0cuuo0ofpow3hdx2np0pw vs V1ctoriasfacile$$$ redux
3-4 RELEVANT QUICK CLAW PROCS (Sheisty Odds)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1890429416 vs Swiscool
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891556793 vs machokeartist
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891742020-8tichg9ufpbc1mpplyfgtozlgcmi344pw vs Gabimaru Hallow (special guest WeirdHamster)
5+ RELEVANT QUICK CLAW PROCS (DEMONIC XXX IMPOSSIBLE ROBBERY ODDS)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891162063-x4l6yi50kenslrm8d5nxvkeisfqt6rupw vs High Impulse
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891615663-q16wb8wn7c3x6z6a6lfbgseucd7hbctpw vs V1ctoriasfacile$$$ reredux
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891595478-msxstlx59hcpbgphvxgq710ct7es6wopw vs Ojama (my bro gets a bit too excited, forgive him)
VERT VS STAREAL. IN THE SSNL. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.
POKEPASTE FOR THE OG MONOCLAW I MADE AND USED: https://pokepast.es/0a23290ce52c5817 (If you guys want more specific details on sets and stuff like that I'm planning on maybe rmting this, so stay tuned for that.)
Vert just used your team in SV OU SSNL and GOATED it congratulations Delibird Heart your team officially became an OFFICIAL HOOD CLASSIC.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-699233
If you want to use glowbro, read this first:
https://pokepast.es/2c2a6a3a02c384a1
https://pokepast.es/2c2a6a3a02c384a1
Oh my fucking god what the fuck did I just watch?
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891746459-rogmxt1oyrxxfhc8qbqked5itqhu1cgpw
I lost to it, so that means its time for it to go. If we can ban King's Rock, we can ban Quick Claw.
Just one more thing on my banhammer bingo punchcard.
I lost to it, so that means its time for it to go. If we can ban King's Rock, we can ban Quick Claw.
Just one more thing on my banhammer bingo punchcard.
SV becomes more of an unserious gen each passing day
what SSNL means??
seasonal
Glowbro was a mistake which we must correct.
Idk guys, 20% is less than the 30% of scald which is considered very competitive. 
Now to not be just a one liner, how do you feel about Heatran? It kinda struggles against almost any offense team since everyone has good coverage against it.
Now to not be just a one liner, how do you feel about Heatran? It kinda struggles against almost any offense team since everyone has good coverage against it.
There's no way you're serious...If you've been laddering around 1900-2000 lately, you might have noticed a heinous trend going on. I was blessed by god's immaculate light a few days ago and constructed one of my most successful teams yet, which allowed me to break into the top 30 today (proof of peak). Even renowned players have folded to this strategy (or adopted it, albeit just for a few games), I'm talking of course about...
MONOCLAW BABYYYYYYYY"So what is monoclaw ?"
You may be familiar with the held item quick claw. It's an item that allows a pokemon holding it to have a 20% chance to move first (in its priority bracket) each turn. At first sight, a complete gimmick, unreliable and a waste of an item. BUT. What if you go... further beyond ? By using 5 quick claw abusers on the same team, you end up having a very high chance to get at least one or two crucial procs each game. These procs will grant you massive advantage whenever they happen, especially if you employ hard hitting abusers such as Iron Hands or Ursaluna. When combining this with a screens setter (in my opinion grimmsnarl is preferable to dragapult in this context as you really enjoy taunt to shut down other leads + the bulk is also nice), you increase the chances to get procs even further.
"But isn't this just luck reliant garbage ?"
Not really, if you build it correctly. Basically you're just making a Screens Bulky Offense team, which is a very dangerous playstyle in its own right, especially in the very HO oriented ladder meta, but replacing all the items with quick claw to abuse the chance of just gaining massive uncounterable advantage each turn, that stacks up with screens and the fact that all your mons are extremely bulky. You should aim to build a team that is prepared to handle all threats in the meta, as you would normally, and which doesn't rely on luck but is simply boosted by it. In that way, even if you don't get any procs at all (which again, is very unlikely since you have 5 abusers and lots of turns to get those procs), you can still win just by playing well. A lot of the featured replays I will provide are actually games where no procs happened.
"Ok, I'm in. What are the mons that work best with this ?"
As stated earlier, you're building Screens Bulky Offense. So you'll obviously need a screen setter, and I've found grimmsnarl to be the best for this, as it matches up well versus a lot of common leads (Especially Samurott-H which is 2HKOed by uninvested Spirit Break and will barely chip grimmsnarl in the process of getting spikes up as you 4x resist ceaseless edge) and has more longevity than Dragapult meaning it can come back in to get screens back up or even kill some weakened mons later in the game.
Because we're leading Grimm most games, we want mons that can cleanly beat the mons that try to abuse it, namely Kingambit. Several mons fit the bill, but the most notable is Iron Hands, which can freely SD up on even +3 gambit behind reflect as its unique fighting/electric double type resists both of gambit's stabs. You are then free to OHKO it with Wild Charge no matter the tera type they turn into should they decide to stay, or just blow something back if they switch. Iron Hands also easily beats all Great Tusks variant when behind screens (yes, even bulk up). You can always pack a tera-type such as Ghost, Fairy or Flying to guarantee this particular match-up.
Other notable mons that switch in on Gambit and scare it out effectively even at +2 or +3 behind reflect include your own Gambit (if you run low kick) and possibly Slither Wing and Copperajah (althought I haven't test them out yet and Iron Hands definitely seems like a better answer than these two.)
All the other mons you want to use follow the same archetype : Extremely bulky when invested in HP, with a set up move and the capacity to OHKO most of the tier after a boost. Here's a quick list of potential abusers, with the ones I succesfully used behind highlighted :
Baxcalibur (Swords Dance), Brute Bonnet (Growth), Crabominable (Bulk Up), Enamorus-Therian (Calm Mind), Glaceon (Calm Mind), Glastrier (Swords Dance), Hoopa-Unbound or Regular (Nasty Plot), Iron Hands (Swords Dance), Iron Thorns (Swords Dance), Kingambit (Swords Dance), Meloetta (Swords Dance or Calm Mind), Rillaboom (Swords Dance), Slither Wing (Bulk Up), Slowbro-Galar (Nasty Plot + Quick Draw for added proc chances), Ursaluna (Swords Dance).
By building your team with such bulky, strong hitting abusers, you can ensure all of these would easily trade for 1 to 2 mons while under screens, and from there on, every turn you'll have a 20% chance to pull ahead and get one more "use" out of your pokemon.
Replay Compendium
Here's all the replays me and my partner in crime Glowbro's Paradise got with this playstyle. I went ahead and classified them in terms of number of procs, just to show you that the majority of games was not decided by quick claw procs, or not by a statistically abnormal number of them.
You can see the vast majority of these only have a max of 2 procs all over the game, thus proving my point that this kind of team is not luck reliant, but just improved by getting a statiscally normal amount of quick claw procs over the course of a game. With that being said, thanks for reading this and have fun on the ladder :)
0-2 RELEVANT QUICK CLAW PROCS (Normal/Expected Odds)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891372258-40gzvv9g1l2xrg27psakclo0hh54ak4pw vs yestrday
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891581905 vs jeanmilapipe
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891588764-4hpdw3hjgymj5sj8eolr9b6rcdmpditpw vs abr fan 2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1889947307-26waq3vc4zopcr3glahvkae94mao5zppw vs Storm Zone
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1890421246-iysewotnaso19pqwh4ru80b7iqcdt8opw vs V1ctoriasfacile$$$
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1890473935-g499y1au6lsnuzfgenzmw46n4rgexu5pw vs LeBarBURR2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1890484669-kkezjqkru6tfppsotjqxn82522wpoazpw vs V1ctoriasfacile$$
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891129416-9mxxuoymezac0v6fhjylxud43ssgy4gpw vs Sufys12 (GRIMMSNARL SHAMONE SPECIAL)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891152028 vs in NY I mollywhop (rain + 0 procs)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891550436-usrzpsrficl6ppq22rsq62xk2k6hwazpw vs Melbourne Weather
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891158079 vs oxbt
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891203031 vs Shawsong (vs stall)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891277166 vs Jontrendline (crit didnt matter, still had other mons to beat cress)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891286991-s7mt326lu2r8n4jyawslnh6n7sle7umpw vs TRIPLE WHAMMY
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891606748-lm3lotd3b1mf0cuuo0ofpow3hdx2np0pw vs V1ctoriasfacile$$$ redux
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891746459-rogmxt1oyrxxfhc8qbqked5itqhu1cgpw WeirdHamster vs Srn
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891773784-04ayf5jvyf5sobqrz5vu9uw6aq1u52opw vs KingGhidorah
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891764451 0ze vs Omari P
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen9ou-1891544074-ucf8nok33kyfb2ngkchspbcxwm41fqtpw vs sponsored by prime
3-4 RELEVANT QUICK CLAW PROCS (Sheisty Odds)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1890429416 vs Swiscool
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891556793 vs machokeartist
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891742020-8tichg9ufpbc1mpplyfgtozlgcmi344pw WeirdHamster vs Gabimaru Hallow
5+ RELEVANT QUICK CLAW PROCS (DEMONIC XXX IMPOSSIBLE ROBBERY ODDS)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891162063-x4l6yi50kenslrm8d5nxvkeisfqt6rupw vs High Impulse
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891615663-q16wb8wn7c3x6z6a6lfbgseucd7hbctpw vs V1ctoriasfacile$$$ reredux
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891595478-msxstlx59hcpbgphvxgq710ct7es6wopw vs Ojama (my bro gets a bit too excited, forgive him)
VERT VS STAREAL. IN THE SSNL. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.
POKEPASTE FOR THE OG MONOCLAW I MADE AND USED: https://pokepast.es/0a23290ce52c5817 (If you guys want more specific details on sets and stuff like that I'm planning on maybe rmting this, so stay tuned for that.)
*reads*
Morkal, do you have an evil twin who happens to be Satan?
That's like banning Quick Draw. It's only a 20% chance of having an impractical priority move on a non priority move. Just think of it as a permanent, non low HP Custap Berry
King's Rock tho
That's just stupid
Except it's not impractical if you maximize chances to activate it. This team is working on top ladder and in tournament--it's clearly not just a low ladder gimmick. While I'm not convinced it's truly unhealthy myself, calling it impractical is just blatantly false and downplaying the success of a strong team.
RNG is a part of Pokémon, and as an important aspect of gameplay, maximizing how you use it is a potential strategy. That's why Scald is so popular and why Focus Blast is so hated. Apparently Quick Claw spam is a strategy that uses RNG control and works.
And if you don't want to deal with that 20% chance, just Covert Cloak, bro
this is precisely the issue, though. the fact that most of the time, games are decided by a dice roll such as this, strips the item of any competitive merit.
it has no redeeming factors & should be banned on principle alone, & for consistency’s sake.
If you watch the game that was played, there were lots more things that decided the game than dice rolls. The qc player maneuvered themselves into favorable situations and qc could have activated many times when it didn't and it would have a similar effect. I was mostly joking before, I think a qc ban would be somewhat silly.
After watching a few of the monoclaw replays, it seemed to me like screens + good positioning + good mons that compliment the strategy were what clinched most of those games rather than solely relying on Quick Claw. It helps that the offensive juggernauts present on the team can work just fine without a consistent item. I can't see this strategy working nearly as well without using Pokemon that can not only dish out loads of damage but also comfortably take hits in the event the item / ability doesn't proc.
Yeah, this is my take too. It's basically a wacky less consistent trick room strat, where you set up strong bulky slow mons which benefit from going first and create situations that facilitate them taking advantage.
Yeah, thats pretty much the idea behind the team. You just play this like a normal Screens BO but quick claw gives u greater odds and can sometimes fix your mistakes.
Honestly, I'd say it's better than TR even if the speed control isn't as consistent. Sure, you're locked into holding Quick Claw as opposed to other items, but at the same time, you don't have to waste move / teamslots in order to get your TR up. You just set up screens and go, basically.
Good shit, Delibird.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1891842087-olkzlazoq50jataz3zxorq2odeqeraqpw this is what ladder is now. lmao
Yeah, idk if it's better or worse but it doesn't feel uncompetitive to me. You're giving up a lot of item slots to get your chances of claw proccing up. Good shit indeed.
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