Live Gen 9 Sand Team Reaction:
and yes I just noticed I had Cute Charm on Clefable, damnit.
Yoooo, that’s actually a really good point. And it’s probably gonna get Ice Spinner cause of being a drill too…
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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and yes I just noticed I had Cute Charm on Clefable, damnit.
ice spinner would legit save excadrill (and tyranitar by extension). threatens massive damage on all its traditional switch-ins, and excadrill still does usual excadrill things beyond being a potent sand sweeper. having another viable rapid spinner is huge in this hazard-infested meta
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I agree although if we ban Gholdengo, the hazard problem won't be so egregious anymore since Defog will be an option, and it will be easier to spin away hazards, at least until people start using Sinistcha, which walls Great Tusk indefinitely and has a good match-up against most spinners as well as being the only Garganacl counter that doesn't need Covert Cloak to beat Gholdengo. I still believe Gholdengo should be the first target after Roaring Moon since banning Gholdengo will make all hazards easier to remove.
You're right, I forgot about Reun. That's probably the best candidate for "mon that will be even better than people predicted when it returns" tbh
pisciazz
Skeledirge is so underappreciated rn. It does great against Iron Moth, Iron Valiant (dark tera knock is dangerous though), zamazenta, cinderace, ... and with tera it can check a multitude of other things. It is not passive as it deals good damage and can spiral out of control and wisp forces many switches. I get it is not great vs gambit, ghold, tusk, gliscor, ... but it can chose which ones to check, with tera water it can be a great answer to all those (except toxic gliscor maybe). I find myself writing croccy in chat too often when I wall a dangerous threat
Hoooly shit I just started a chain of wars with a SINGULAR FORRETRESS POST. An argument could be made it would've happened anyways but I'm not entirely sure. But anywho, I wanna touch on one post in particular. Or technically 2
1 - 20 = Fucking turtle speed
21 - 49 = Faster than the absolute slowest but not anything higher
50 - 69 = Still not fast enough. Maybe a speed boost or 2 can help?
70 - 99 = 1 step below average speed
100 = Oooh a good speed stat? Save me a pokemon
101 - 110 = That's faster
111 - 120 = 101 is fine man you don't need to get much higher
121 - 142 = Aight man I think that's fast enough
143 - 179 = IT'S ENOUGH
180 - 255 = IT'S ENOUGH SPEED, MAN
If you know what meme remix that is you're goated
^^ Although the given speed margins after 100 aren't too far apart, you need to think: speed is like the "You're dumb" "I know you are but what am I" argument. Unless your talking about SHUCKLE, nothing is so slow to the point of no return. Although our definitions of slow are very different so we both might be getting nowhere with this. But I just wanted to take this time and forget about the chaos I chained, and just activate Chain Strike right now.
I mean like... ok here me out. There is no singular word that can describe how actually slow base 40 speed is, but rather a chain of extremely long adjectives and synonyms relating to "bad". But here's the thing: Ferrothorn has the same speed as TORKOAL GOD DAMNIT. If Forretress is slow, then those 2 are slower than slow. And don't even get me started on Shuckle being bottom of the barrel speed either. All of this said, outspeeding Toxapex of all things -- which is definitely not a speedster -- only by a hair isn't something to be proud of at all. But hey, at least that speed can be put to good use with Gyro Ball (which Forretress gets). Here's my personal take on how fast something is compared to any given thing:>Base 40 speed
>not slow
1 - 20 = Fucking turtle speed
21 - 49 = Faster than the absolute slowest but not anything higher
50 - 69 = Still not fast enough. Maybe a speed boost or 2 can help?
70 - 99 = 1 step below average speed
100 = Oooh a good speed stat? Save me a pokemon
101 - 110 = That's faster
111 - 120 = 101 is fine man you don't need to get much higher
121 - 142 = Aight man I think that's fast enough
143 - 179 = IT'S ENOUGH
180 - 255 = IT'S ENOUGH SPEED, MAN
If you know what meme remix that is you're goated
^^ Although the given speed margins after 100 aren't too far apart, you need to think: speed is like the "You're dumb" "I know you are but what am I" argument. Unless your talking about SHUCKLE, nothing is so slow to the point of no return. Although our definitions of slow are very different so we both might be getting nowhere with this. But I just wanted to take this time and forget about the chaos I chained, and just activate Chain Strike right now.
While I agree that the window until the DLC is small, it is not fixed and may even be delayed, officially reported.
On the other hand, Finchinator vocally declared the council's commitment to working on the metagame. The more suspects and information we obtain now, it could be of some value post-DLC.
Of course, Valiant is not a priority.
An opportunity to test a meta without Gholdengo would be a key to a post-DLC development leap.
My personal priorities; Gholdengo and Kingambit.
i find skeledirge to be very underrated as well, given how much threats it manages to check. being able to stuff rillaboom, cinderace, sneasler, iron valiant, iron moth, enamorus and zamazenta is huge, and depending on its tera type (fairy, water, dragon, dark, etc.) it becomes able to check much more. one thing i very much do not appreciate is how it usually ends up losing to gliscor without substitute, though i suppose having hex helps. overall very solid mon though, and i could see it rising back up to OU in the future
on an unrelated note though, i still find it mind-boggling how landorus-T could be dropping to UU and maushold could be rising to OU (though of course this isnt all confirmed yet). turns out the pre-release hype for the maus was real after all!
Hi, I am very proud to be a council member of this community and appreciate the support this community gives not only me but also my fellow council members. However, if you have any issues with tiering or any questions - I wanna give you a multitude of options to contact me and I will answer as soon as I can.
You can quote this post with a question.
You can dm me on smogon.
You can message me on Discord, "rriv".
You can @ me on my OU discord server.
You can also @ me on the official Smogon OU server.
Thanks as always guys
You can quote this post with a question.
You can dm me on smogon.
You can message me on Discord, "rriv".
You can @ me on my OU discord server.
You can also @ me on the official Smogon OU server.
Thanks as always guys
hold on, maushold is potentially coming back to ou? i need to keep up to date more apparently, do spill why it could be rising
it has access to tidy up which allows it to remove hazards right in front of gholdengo, low kick and/or encore for kingambit and still pulls the same population bomb bullshit it always did. though now its standout traits are more noticeable than ever before thanks to some notable shifts in the metagame. bulky normal resists like garganacl and corviknight have dipped in usage as of late, as have garchomp and rocky helmet landorus-T. rocky helmet itself is also seen less usage on defensive walls due to the prevalence of hazards mandating the use of HDB. all of this gives maus an easier time firing off population bombs, and the heavy emphasis on hazard stack gives it a small niche as a reliable form of hazard control
with all that being said, maushold has quite a lot of flaws that i think seriously (and i mean seriously) hold it back. its still completely blanked by gholdengo even if it gets to remove hazards, it struggles to break normal resists, it is incredibly frail and has a hard time reliably switching in, its speed tier makes it slower than speed booster iron valiant and +1 roaring moon even after a tidy up and priority revenge killers pretty much destroy it every time. still though very interesting mon in OU, worth giving it a try
It does get beat up, which I’m pretty sure is stronger than technician bite, but I don’t know how to make that work in the calculator, so I can’t check rn
Weather wars, while unbalanced was one of the main ''new'' things of gen 5 and IMO made the meta very fun, but OFC it centralized the meta around it.
It was very fun while it lasted, which was important and im glad they took so long to ban it.
Skeledirge @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dragon/Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dragon/Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off
Skeledirge is my favorite Pokemon from Gen 9, second only to Fuecoco. I am so glad it is good again. There are a few things that have allowed it to make a comeback. Moth and Rilla usage has risen in usage, plus several defensive staples were added like Gliscor which help Dirge do its job as an emergency check to several top threats like Cinder, Valinat, Zama, etc. With Tera Grass or Dragon it can shit on Wogre, though if you do use Tera Dragon, bring a 2nd Fairy resist. Speaking of Gliscor, Torch Song + Hex 2HKOs that stupid ass scorpion if it is SpD, in return of taking either a Toxic or EQ for 50%. even though your Dirge gets crippled, you also kill Gliscor which opens your team up. Calm Nature with 84 SpD evs lets Dirge avoid a 2HKO from Valiant Sball with the rest dumped into PhysD.
Dirge might possibly rise to OU either next month or December. Its defensive profile on top of its offensive potential makes it a solid choice in the Gen 9 metagame.
Some other mons I expect to see in OU next month are Mola and Garg. Mola is a fantastic Regen pivot/Wish passer while Garg stays relevant in the Gliscor meta by simply Cursing up and Ice Punching that bitch.
Art credit: https://www.zerochan.net/3853172
What having a Dragon Dance clone that also serves as a form of hazard removal unaffected by Gholdengo, a STAB signature move that’s effectively 300BP with Wide Lens and passable stats does to a mf
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unrelated question after an unrelated note, what is everyone's opinions on weavile currently? getting knock off back was such a major buff for the mon, plus dark/ice is as good as it's always been. the weaker ice stab doesn't seem like too big an issue since the two dragons that i see commonly (dragapult and roaring moon) are still pretty squishy overall. draga has laughable defenses and is weak to both stabs anyways, while roaring moon is also pretty physically weak, and will get especially hurt after rocks for instance. and dragonite, while good, doesn't even stay as a dragon type for more than a turn or two since tera normal espeed is nutty.
252 Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 164-194 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(set used was just standard choice band for moon)
252 Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 158-188 (49.8 - 59.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
(specs draga)
i'm curious as to what's really holding it back from entering into the promised land of ou once again?
maybe its just the ogerpon forms idk
252 Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 164-194 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(set used was just standard choice band for moon)
252 Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 158-188 (49.8 - 59.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
(specs draga)
i'm curious as to what's really holding it back from entering into the promised land of ou once again?
maybe its just the ogerpon forms idk
nutty damage that is actually kind of really strong + a really good speed tier
+1 252 Atk Technician Maushold Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 180-210 (45.1 - 52.6%) -- approx. 74.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
passable-ish bulk
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Maushold: 186-219 (64.3 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The speed tier also allows it to act as a one-time emergency hazard removal
Unfortunately it's kind of hard countered by a lot of things, including:
Bulky-ish Ghosts (Uninvested Ghold level of bulk or higher)
Rocky Helmet/Rough Skin
Booster Speed Valiant + Moon
Chip damage
Priority
Extremely bulky pokemon that can take a hit and either KO or phaze it (Ting-Lu, Corv w/ BPress)
Knock Off (Pop. Bomb turns into a 30% accurate move lmao)
And it doesn't really have nice ways to get around these, so it's kind of a matchup-fishy pokemon. Can't believe we prefer it over lando-t.
weavile is actually really really good B/c it has the ability to beat the best knock absorber we have in Gliscor and flying-types to knock off boots, which allows spikestack teams to really pop off.
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theres this popular weavile balance build being spammed on the ladder as of late to great success so weavile seems to be doing fine right now. though the loss of power going from icicle crash to triple axel seriously harms its breaking power and the prevalence of hazards forcing it to run HDB instead of a boosting item can kinda suck. despite all of that, i still think its a very solid mon thats worth using in this new metagame. regaining knock off meant everything for it, really
i think the real question is when does breloom get population bomb
252 Atk Technician Tera Normal Breloom Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 260-310 (72.4 - 86.3%) -- approx. 2HKO
make this a reality, cowards
If ever deviating from cart mechanics was warrented on smogon, I think doing it to give Breloom Population Bomb and +50 speed would be the most justified reason.
Oh, and to give Lokix +50 attack, Klawf +50 any stat, and Wigglytuff Fluffy, because cmon.
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tidy up is probably in the top 5 in terms of best moves in the current meta, and pop bomb is also somewhere in top 20. that combination of moves would be viable on just about anything in this climate, even for a mon whose only good stat is speed
Will a rise of Maushold to OU make Furret the Maushold of UU?
As for Skeledirge all it's waiting for is the right setup pokemon to be meta to find a bigger place in the meta, and I don't think the right setup pokemon have been in the meta for it to have that bigger place. It's my most favorite unaware Mon though, and fact that almost all of the pokemon keeping it from having a larger role are getting banned or suspected might give it a larger presence.
As for Skeledirge all it's waiting for is the right setup pokemon to be meta to find a bigger place in the meta, and I don't think the right setup pokemon have been in the meta for it to have that bigger place. It's my most favorite unaware Mon though, and fact that almost all of the pokemon keeping it from having a larger role are getting banned or suspected might give it a larger presence.
Skeledirge is gonna be going good once Roaring Moon / Kingambit / Gholdengo / possibly Waterpon are gone.
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