Google Forms is not the hardest thing in the world to fraud, and it's not unbelievable that even just a few people would try to ruin the voting. I don't see why it's beyond reason that this is possible, especially when botted votes are going to look distinctly different from actual people votes.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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i'm one of the most rabidly anti-gambit people in this thread. i list off all the mons i want banned every night before i go to bed like arya stark and kingambit is the first name on my lips. i voted 5 for it on the survey only because it stops at 5. i would need to invent an entire new branch of set theory to find a way to express the number i would have put instead. when i say that the general vote is being botted against gambit, you had better believe i don't have any motivation to defend the fucker
I mean I get that, but it seems a bit disingenuous to call the increase in votes a “botting/trolling attempt” when Kingambit is one of the brokens that the community still widely agrees should have gotten full ban votes in the original suspect. Hell, I voted 5 on Kingambit on the survey because, again, (as long as Tera remains a thing in the meta) it’s still broken bullshit that actively wins matches off of strategically sacking your team.
read finch's post in the survey results thread, there's some pretty clear evidence of survey manipulation
also, look at the differences between the qualified vote and the general vote. there are two possibilities here: either the general vote is being spammed, or most of the people who want gambit banned aren't good at the game. which one do you think is more likely?
I mean, it's also disengenous to act like Finch going "Hey, with the Kingambit survery votes, there was clear signs of people purposefully inflating the number of 5's through dishonest means" is laughable and a lie people are spreading when he literally posted about it in an easy to find thread lol
The only thing that’s disingenuous is someone who does not have eyes on the physical responses commenting about this. I didn’t spend an hour last night going through offensive spam to get called disingenuous. I did it to get closer to accurate results.
Kingambit has plenty of actual support and nobody is refuting it. Both things can be true. The implication in your post is really rude.
Are these mutually exclusive? A lot of people can want Gambit banned at the same time as a few people can bot the survey to artificially inflate the statistics. I don't think it's a good look to try and say the tier leader is being dishonest and has some agenda to keep Gambit legal.
Yeah, after reading over things in full, calling that disingenuous was shortsighted for me. With the added context on filtering through the results to get a more accurate picture (which still supports further action on Kingambit anyways) makes it make much more sense. Dumb move on my part.
what is going on here, i came here to check one what's going on and all i see are these walls of text
you're in text jail for spelling crimes
I read something without further checking context (which was easily findable) and made a dumb assumption lol
Playstyle Post: The State of Sticky Webs
Intro:
After playing DLC1's metagame for a long time, I just wanted to share my thoughts on one of my new favorite playstyle, Webs. This playstyle is a more offensive playstyle that focuses on using powerful sweepers that are a bit on the slower side (
) and using webs to make up for their slower speed. This team does well in opposing HO, but struggles with Boots Spam. Of course the matchup depends on your team + opponent's team but these are big generalizations. For example, Psyshock 
on webs greatly eases the stall matchup as it forces Tera/Certain Options.
Teambuilding: (note that I may classify things differently and these mons can preform more than just its described role.)
When building a webs team, I often found myself going back to the same mons. This is because the nature of the Sticky Web playstyle is very limited in teambuilding. You are forced to run a webs setter (
) as well as a way to keep webs up. If not running anti-hazard removal tech, Webs can be pretty useless as they just get spun away on one turn. This limits us to really having only four "unique" members. With these four members, we need to form a core that works well with each other and can take on the meta. The vague roles of these four are: Sweeper, Stallbreaker, Speed Control and Support. (SSSS)
The Stallbreaker, or Breaker is tasked with taking on the massive bulk of teams. Good examples of this role are
and 
. Both examples matchup well into most of the walls in the meta, and can beat 
/force it to tera. A good example of a SpA breaker was 
(maybe too good lol) as it also matched up well into the meta's special walls. Generally, you either send them at the start of a game to rip things open, or at the end of the game to clean things up (Fallen Five 
moment). Of course other mons can server as a breaker, these are just some shining examples.
The Sweeper generally is used late game to take advantage of the weakened opposing team to setup and sweep. Good examples of this role are and . (note role compression) The two boost up their stats and can quickly snowball out of control. Mainly they are the wincon, and you want to eliminate their checks over the game or tera on the right spot. Pretty self explanatory role, but very important.
Speed Control is more of a niche role, but still important. This is because Sticky Webs already provides speed control. As its name implies, it serves as speed control when webs aren't up/removed. This role is to help vs teams that use
/other speed boosts. A good example of this is 
. With Booster speed, it hits 525 speed, outspeeding everything unboosted and provides role compression as it doubles as a sweeper.
Support is an option that enables your teammates by providing things like status and healing. A good example of this is
. It provides tech vs other Web teams, status in Nuzzle, helping futher lower the speed of opposing mons or vs things like 
and Healing in Healing Wish which lets your sweepers get another chance at sweeping (teams might be broken down already). Note that this role isn't obligatory as sometimes it can be a momentum sink.
Conclusion:
Webs as a playstyle has 100% gotten better thanks to the DLC. With Gholdengo being overpowered in terms of preventing removal, having access to Rimbombee now and certain bans taking place, Webs have benefited from all of this. Do note that Gholdengo will be getting a suspect test, so we might need to find alternatives (or all spam DNB). I'm leaving my RMT post below, I made a Webs HO team that preformed pretty well + qualified for reqs. It might also help you qualify for Gliscor Reqs.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/jealousy-got-reqs-peaked-1889-no-50.3730667/
Intro:
After playing DLC1's metagame for a long time, I just wanted to share my thoughts on one of my new favorite playstyle, Webs. This playstyle is a more offensive playstyle that focuses on using powerful sweepers that are a bit on the slower side (
) and using webs to make up for their slower speed. This team does well in opposing HO, but struggles with Boots Spam. Of course the matchup depends on your team + opponent's team but these are big generalizations. For example, Psyshock on webs greatly eases the stall matchup as it forces Tera/Certain Options.Teambuilding: (note that I may classify things differently and these mons can preform more than just its described role.)
When building a webs team, I often found myself going back to the same mons. This is because the nature of the Sticky Web playstyle is very limited in teambuilding. You are forced to run a webs setter (
) as well as a way to keep webs up. If not running anti-hazard removal tech, Webs can be pretty useless as they just get spun away on one turn. This limits us to really having only four "unique" members. With these four members, we need to form a core that works well with each other and can take on the meta. The vague roles of these four are: Sweeper, Stallbreaker, Speed Control and Support. (SSSS)The Stallbreaker, or Breaker is tasked with taking on the massive bulk of teams. Good examples of this role are
and . Both examples matchup well into most of the walls in the meta, and can beat /force it to tera. A good example of a SpA breaker was (maybe too good lol) as it also matched up well into the meta's special walls. Generally, you either send them at the start of a game to rip things open, or at the end of the game to clean things up (Fallen Five moment). Of course other mons can server as a breaker, these are just some shining examples.The Sweeper generally is used late game to take advantage of the weakened opposing team to setup and sweep. Good examples of this role are
and . (note role compression) The two boost up their stats and can quickly snowball out of control. Mainly they are the wincon, and you want to eliminate their checks over the game or tera on the right spot. Pretty self explanatory role, but very important.Speed Control is more of a niche role, but still important. This is because Sticky Webs already provides speed control. As its name implies, it serves as speed control when webs aren't up/removed. This role is to help vs teams that use
/other speed boosts. A good example of this is . With Booster speed, it hits 525 speed, outspeeding everything unboosted and provides role compression as it doubles as a sweeper.Support is an option that enables your teammates by providing things like status and healing. A good example of this is
. It provides tech vs other Web teams, status in Nuzzle, helping futher lower the speed of opposing mons or vs things like and Healing in Healing Wish which lets your sweepers get another chance at sweeping (teams might be broken down already). Note that this role isn't obligatory as sometimes it can be a momentum sink.Conclusion:
Webs as a playstyle has 100% gotten better thanks to the DLC. With Gholdengo being overpowered in terms of preventing removal, having access to Rimbombee now and certain bans taking place, Webs have benefited from all of this. Do note that Gholdengo will be getting a suspect test, so we might need to find alternatives (or all spam DNB). I'm leaving my RMT post below, I made a Webs HO team that preformed pretty well + qualified for reqs. It might also help you qualify for Gliscor Reqs.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/jealousy-got-reqs-peaked-1889-no-50.3730667/
there's no hard-and-fast alternative to gholdengo for outright preventing defog, but there are plenty of options for punishing defog that could find places on hazard-stacking and webs teams:
- enamorus. contrary enamorus is unique among defog punishers for getting a boost not to an attacking stat but to evasion, making her the only viable pokemon in competitive play that can obtain an evasion boost without relying on rng. this is extremely valuable for a mon as strong and as frail as enamorus and will absolutely carry entire games by cheesing free turns
- empoleon. a pretty solid mon even now, tier drop be damned, empoleon would likely see a significant jump in usage after a ghold ban for its ability to simultaneously discourage defog and block mortal spin (and for those of you saying mortal spin isn't important or used, it's run on literally almost all glimms). it also has great defensive synergy with a lot of the meta's ground-types, particularly gliscor (though this is about to become irrelevant) and lando-t (who is about to become somewhat more relevant)—water/steel and ground/flying perfectly cover each other's weaknesses
- guess fucking who. yeah, this is yet another thing you can use kingambit for. it's generally inferior to supreme overlord, but defiant gives you a +2 on switch-in if you play correctly, regardless of how many mons you've lost, which gives gambit a lot more use in the early and mid-game—and very few people are prepared for gambit in the early and mid-game. don't actually use this, of course, defiant is good but supreme overlord is straight-up uncompetitive so exploit it while you can
- milotic. everyone's using the xavgb set right now, which preys on current (and slightly-older-than-current) meta trends, but in a future meta with no gholdengo or gliscor, competitive milotic may end up serving as a nice defog punisher on certain teams
- galarian articuno. previously, it carved itself a small niche in ou with its double dance stored power set, which gets way stronger if it starts out with +2 spa. it's definitely worth a shot
- galarian zapdos. this one was also on the vr at some point i think, or maybe it currently is, or something. the point is, it has defiant, it hits like a fucking truck at +2, it's got a great stab combo in a meta without ghold, thunderous kick is a crazy move, and for some reason they gave it knock off. you might have to build around this one a bit but it'd definitely put in work with the right structure around it
- ogerpon (the regular one). in her base form, she gets defiant, so on hazard teams you can forgo swords dance in favor of baiting a defog and switching in, giving ogerpon a lot more room to run coverage. between the +2 from defiant and the +1 speed if you tera her, she can become virtually impossible to stop before she even clicks a single move. and, as a bonus, she can still run an item—for example, choice band or life orb for massive power, or even the quite-overlooked lum berry, which is a godsend for setup sweepers that don't like switching out and can't afford a poison-immune (or burn-immune or para-immune) tera. if you'd rather go for utility than sweeping, ogerpon can set spikes while deterring defog, uniquely among defog punishers. the downside to regular ogerpon is that she only has one stab and it's double-resisted by what will be, in a gholdless meta, the best defogger in the game. having nothing to hit corviknight is bad when your entire function revolves around switching into corviknight
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Speaking of Enamorus, it seems like a pretty nice anti-meta option at the moment for punishing Webs by simply just not being affected by them and taking advantage of the team’s usually slower speeds. Gave the Webs team I ladder with half the time trouble whenever I ran into it.
Regarding Webs, enjoy em while you can before DLC2. They're going to be gone in the blink of an eye.
Doesn't Serperior also rely on its serperior speed or am I overestimating its speed? it may get that contrary boost but it would come at a cost
It’d get a boost to speed by taking webs
Oh shit. I completely forgot how contrary works and messed it up. Never mind what I just said
Serperior has 113 base speed, clocking at 357 speed and 535 at +1. I bet you could EV it to not require max speed to outrun most scarfers
Do you think that blaziken is going to stay in OU this gen?
It failed last gen.
Tera may let it overcome dragapult which is part of the reason it didn't stay in OU.
Edit: I am surprised that meowscarada did not return to OU.
I was under the impression that she dropped due to tye new toy syndrom.
It failed last gen.
Tera may let it overcome dragapult which is part of the reason it didn't stay in OU.
Edit: I am surprised that meowscarada did not return to OU.
I was under the impression that she dropped due to tye new toy syndrom.
Two thoughts.
I am not a fan of Webs rn. The opponent having a Cinderace means you might as well just click the forfeit button cause your never keeping webs up vs it. Also the fact Boots spam is common due to the other polarizing hazard matchup (Glis/Ghold Spike Stacking), so it feels too matchup fishy and inconsistent to ladder with, idk how people do it.
Recently Moth has risen in usage due to both its offensive wallbreaking potential and even its defensive utility, but it’s also overrated imo. It is easier to stop Moth from snowballing than it looks. AV Glowking with Psyshock completely walls this thing, I’ve been seeing it everywhere on ladder cause Glowking is very annoying to switch into and the added bulk from AV makes it more consistent at checking things like Moth, Zapdos, etc. It is also threatened by SpD Gliscor, Dnite, Ting-Lu, and Tran. The latter of which has risen due to Moth’s popularity. Meaning it has to slot in Tera Ground in order to break it which has its own problems like needing to sacrifice coverage or being a Tera hog. It is also not a great Valiant check since +1 Psyshock always KOs it. Its still a good mon, but one that alot of people are already fully prepared for, and unlike Gambit, these checks are consistent.
I am not a fan of Webs rn. The opponent having a Cinderace means you might as well just click the forfeit button cause your never keeping webs up vs it. Also the fact Boots spam is common due to the other polarizing hazard matchup (Glis/Ghold Spike Stacking), so it feels too matchup fishy and inconsistent to ladder with, idk how people do it.
Recently Moth has risen in usage due to both its offensive wallbreaking potential and even its defensive utility, but it’s also overrated imo. It is easier to stop Moth from snowballing than it looks. AV Glowking with Psyshock completely walls this thing, I’ve been seeing it everywhere on ladder cause Glowking is very annoying to switch into and the added bulk from AV makes it more consistent at checking things like Moth, Zapdos, etc. It is also threatened by SpD Gliscor, Dnite, Ting-Lu, and Tran. The latter of which has risen due to Moth’s popularity. Meaning it has to slot in Tera Ground in order to break it which has its own problems like needing to sacrifice coverage or being a Tera hog. It is also not a great Valiant check since +1 Psyshock always KOs it. Its still a good mon, but one that alot of people are already fully prepared for, and unlike Gambit, these checks are consistent.
ngl i REALLY hope Aggron comes back this gen, tera allowing it to get rid of its shit typing might actually give it a shot in OU because of how stupid its defense is.
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Steel Aggron: 109-130 (31.6 - 37.7%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Tera Steel Aggron Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 420-496 (123.1 - 145.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Tera Steel Aggron Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Flying Kingambit: 300-354 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Tera Steel Aggron Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Fairy Kingambit: 216-256 (63.3 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Steel Aggron: 109-130 (31.6 - 37.7%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Tera Steel Aggron Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 420-496 (123.1 - 145.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Tera Steel Aggron Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Flying Kingambit: 300-354 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Tera Steel Aggron Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Fairy Kingambit: 216-256 (63.3 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Probably not OU as if you are forced to tera a pokemon for it to be high value is not good. Only really Garganacl can get away with it due to its ability and salt cure. However, Aggron will probably be great in the lower tiers, somewhere around NU and maybe PU, which considering in Gen 8 it was PU and the immense power creep of this generation, is pretty good.
I have been thinking of what to ladder with. And the conclusion I came to was a variation of Pinkacross and their #1 OU Ladder Alomomola team. It has a lot of good things about it: Cinderace as an offensive hazard stopgap, Thundurus Therian to punish Corviknight, Alomomola and it's Wish passing allowing the team more survivability, Kingambit being... Kingambit. It's actually an amazing team now that I think about it. But why do I bring it up here?
Because Iron Moth can do the same thing as Thundurus Therian. It can threaten Corviknight with big damage and unlike Thundurus Therian, actually outspeed the likes of Walking Wake. Sure Dazzling Gleam is a 2HKO and it's always threatened by stray Ground moves, but I do think it has a place in the metagame. Of course now that I said what I'm using I'm hesitant to use it, but I still think it's a good team.
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