Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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OK, after well over 200 battles, and being para-haxed and Dire Claw-sleeped more times than I can count, faced with a plethora of bad matchups and niche things (I don't know what's going on, but nothing i've met the last days is even close to the meta that was around for the last suspect, or whatever the viability rankings may hint at), I'm officially out of my attempt to get reqs this time. Worth noting that I got a lot of very lucky matches with freezes and crits and all kinds of nonsense... on lower ladder, then all the misses, sleeps and para-hax on mid and high ladder. Would've highly prefered it the other way around, lady luck.

I'm also conflicted on whether or not to try ever again because while it was fun last time and playing the game in itself is good, I don't like to have to care about my "elo", "GXE" or "winning rate", as it's a source of stress and anxiety and nothing more. But I don't like the idea of mons and full mechanics being taken in and out of the meta without me having any saying on it, all the more when I can get a 75~78 GXE on 50 battles consistently, but apparently have to dedicate 10h+, from 6 to 12 attempts and well over 200 battles on average to get to 80%, or fail to do so. Which makes no sense to me, but oh well.

In any case, BAN GLISCOR, BAN GHOLDENGO (this isn't the suspect thread, so I can say it!), please and thank you.
 
Ibaragi said:
OK, after well over 200 battles, and being para-haxed and Dire Claw-sleeped more times than I can count, faced with a plethora of bad matchups and niche things (I don't know what's going on, but nothing i've met the last days is even close to the meta that was around for the last suspect, or whatever the viability rankings may hint at), I'm officially out of my attempt to get reqs this time. Worth noting that I got a lot of very lucky matches with freezes and crits and all kinds of nonsense... on lower ladder, then all the misses, sleeps and para-hax on mid and high ladder. Would've highly prefered it the other way around, lady luck.

I'm also conflicted on whether or not to try ever again because while it was fun last time and playing the game in itself is good, I don't like to have to care about my "elo", "GXE" or "winning rate", as it's a source of stress and anxiety and nothing more. But I don't like the idea of mons and full mechanics being taken in and out of the meta without me having any saying on it, all the more when I can get a 75~78 GXE on 50 battles consistently, but apparently have to dedicate 10h+, from 6 to 12 attempts and well over 200 battles on average to get to 80%, or fail to do so. Which makes no sense to me, but oh well.

In any case, BAN GLISCOR, BAN GHOLDENGO (this isn't the suspect thread, so I can say it!), please and thank you.
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Fax, the laddering part of the suspect process sucks ass. I had to make, like 40 alts for the roaring Moon suspect and probably play over 300 games only to not even make it lmao. This is mostly a skill issue on my end tbf, its hard for me not to choke.
 
Magcargo said:
Fax, the laddering part of the suspect process sucks ass. I had to make, like 40 alts for the roaring Moon suspect and probably play over 300 games only to not even make it lmao. This is mostly a skill issue on my end tbf, its hard for me not to choke.
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It's mostly a skill issue on my end too. I made 20 alts for the first Tera suspect, and it was a real grind to make reqs. I have been unable to get reqs since. I'm usually a consistently 73-75ish GXE player. I choke at the worst times for winnable matches.
 
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Ibaragi said:
OK, after well over 200 battles, and being para-haxed and Dire Claw-sleeped more times than I can count, faced with a plethora of bad matchups and niche things (I don't know what's going on, but nothing i've met the last days is even close to the meta that was around for the last suspect, or whatever the viability rankings may hint at), I'm officially out of my attempt to get reqs this time. Worth noting that I got a lot of very lucky matches with freezes and crits and all kinds of nonsense... on lower ladder, then all the misses, sleeps and para-hax on mid and high ladder. Would've highly prefered it the other way around, lady luck.

I'm also conflicted on whether or not to try ever again because while it was fun last time and playing the game in itself is good, I don't like to have to care about my "elo", "GXE" or "winning rate", as it's a source of stress and anxiety and nothing more. But I don't like the idea of mons and full mechanics being taken in and out of the meta without me having any saying on it, all the more when I can get a 75~78 GXE on 50 battles consistently, but apparently have to dedicate 10h+, from 6 to 12 attempts and well over 200 battles on average to get to 80%, or fail to do so. Which makes no sense to me, but oh well.

In any case, BAN GLISCOR, BAN GHOLDENGO (this isn't the suspect thread, so I can say it!), please and thank you.
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Magcargo said:
Fax, the laddering part of the suspect process sucks ass. I had to make, like 40 alts for the roaring Moon suspect and probably play over 300 games only to not even make it lmao. This is mostly a skill issue on my end tbf, its hard for me not to choke.
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Avira said:
It's mostly a skill issue on my end too. I made 20 alts for the first Tera suspect, and it was a real grind to make reqs. I have been unable to get reqs since. I'm usually a consistently 73-75ish GXE player. I choke at the worst times for winnable matches.
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Damn yall think it's a skill issue? Then I must be horrendous -- because I can barely scrape up a winstreak of 10. If I really wanted to suspect something it's gonna take more than long. If you want a representation of my skill, 22 games. 12-10 record. That's not good enough for effective play which is why I essentially spawn camped 1400s on my old account (The2009Zapdos)

Kinda sucks to think about, but you know what? Us low ladder individuals gotta stick together. We know the metagame at large and people agree with our opinions so that's what matters :)

Who's on the Low Ladder Gang? I am.
 
Sahvyt said:
SO only calculates how many mons in the party are currently fainted, not how many have fainted. i think last respects works differently but idk.
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Yea, SO only counts the user fainted in the party, so the max is 50%, while Last Respect EVERY Pokémon of the team that fainted and counts also the revived, and has also a "limit"...
and it's 5050... and requires 100 fainted mons...
Now I seriously wonder if someone is mad enough to reach at least 1000
 
Currently at 81%, 36-7 and I literally need only one game to get reqs. Watch me lose the next game and ruin my GXE.
Ibaragi said:
I'm also conflicted on whether or not to try ever again because while it was fun last time and playing the game in itself is good, I don't like to have to care about my "elo", "GXE" or "winning rate", as it's a source of stress and anxiety and nothing more. But I don't like the idea of mons and full mechanics being taken in and out of the meta without me having any saying on it, all the more when I can get a 75~78 GXE on 50 battles consistently, but apparently have to dedicate 10h+, from 6 to 12 attempts and well over 200 battles on average to get to 80%, or fail to do so. Which makes no sense to me, but oh well.

In any case, BAN GLISCOR, BAN GHOLDENGO (this isn't the suspect thread, so I can say it!), please and thank you.
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I know how you feel, it really sucks when you get stressed over a fricking game where you're supposed to have fun. You should 100% prioritize your enjoyment on the ladder rather than get mad over literally nothing relevant. Still, if you wanna get better at the game I suggest you to try to get reqs whenever you want, if you feel like it, because trying to get the correct GXE really enforces good plays and methodical thinking, if you take it as a learning experience. And if you fail, well, who cares. Maybe this time you'll get to 15-10 WL, then the next you'll get 18-9 and so on, gradually getting better.
 
yNot Mence said:
Currently at 81%, 36-7 and I literally need only one game to get reqs. Watch me lose the next game and ruin my GXE.

I know how you feel, it really sucks when you get stressed over a fricking game where you're supposed to have fun. You should 100% prioritize your enjoyment on the ladder rather than get mad over literally nothing relevant. Still, if you wanna get better at the game I suggest you to try to get reqs whenever you want, if you feel like it, because trying to get the correct GXE really enforces good plays and methodical thinking, if you take it as a learning experience. And if you fail, well, who cares. Maybe this time you'll get to 15-10 WL, then the next you'll get 18-9 and so on, gradually getting better.
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See? Just lost to a Magma Storm miss and I literally won that game if it wasn't for that. But I'm absolutely cool and not mad at all, because it's a learning experience.


FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
 
Milotic is underrated in the tier. And by saying that I don't mean using the objectively awful flame orb set, stop doing that it's ass.

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 184 SpD / 12 Spe
Calm Nature
- Recover
- Scald
- Mirror Coat
- Flip Turn

This set is incredibly good. It handles Gliscor decently with a special attack, provides momentum with flip turn, and can even kill the Thundurus-T people in the mid 1400s are obsessed with via mirror coat (stop running Thund-T he sucks). It is hard walled by waterpon but it also kinda forces waterpon in so you can take advantage of that with something like tera grass heatran. Pair with hazard control obviously because no HDB, alternatively, or in combination with the previously mentioned hazard removal, pair with grassy terrain for an annoying wall that can take a physical hit in a pinch.
 
YubelVT said:
Milotic is underrated in the tier. And by saying that I don't mean using the objectively awful flame orb set, stop doing that it's ass.

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 184 SpD / 12 Spe
Calm Nature
- Recover
- Scald
- Mirror Coat
- Flip Turn

This set is incredibly good. It handles Gliscor decently with a special attack, provides momentum with flip turn, and can even kill the Thundurus-T people in the mid 1400s are obsessed with via mirror coat (stop running Thund-T he sucks). It is hard walled by waterpon but it also kinda forces waterpon in so you can take advantage of that with something like tera grass heatran. Pair with hazard control obviously because no HDB, alternatively, or in combination with the previously mentioned hazard removal, pair with grassy terrain for an annoying wall that can take a physical hit in a pinch.
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Yknow what? I actually really like seeing this. I think we should see more use of Guts/Marvel Scale with actual items. Like you don't need to be burn yourself, that's just extra chip in this meta. I guess the downside is that you "Don't have an ability" until you switch into a status move, but I think that rewards smart play and predictions.
I know I could run some calcs myself, but I'm curious what benchmarks you had in mind with the EV spread? And what the difference is between unboosted and Marvel Scaled defenses?
 
Welcome to mars said:
people are using actually galarian weezing with neutrilizing gas as a defogger because of gholdengo protecting gliscors spikes from other defoggers and spinners that aren’t tusk,which can be forced out by gliscor which sets up spikes,who walls great tusk without ice spinner, this meta is worse than my fucking brain
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but gliscor is the problem and not the single best spin blocker in pokemon history
 
Actually genuine question, with the supreme centralization of the metagame around Gholdengo and hazards, why haven't people been trying Iron Treads?

I just theorized a set that can take a hit from Ghold and hit it super hard back, 3hko Gliscor on the switch, and spin. Granted you're missing volt switch here, which is annoying, but the moveset isn't like, concrete you can adjust to your liking.

Iron Treads @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 184 Spe
- Earthquake
- Ice Spinner
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
I used the offensive set from the calculator for a baseline, changed to a + attack nature, and then took out speed until you're faster than max speed ghold, which leaves you with 68 EVs to do with as you wish. I put them into HP but someone who's actually good at finding relevant calcs could put them somewhere else. Alternatively you could do a spread of 48 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 204 Spe if you felt the need to anti-lead glimmora, but that's not necessary.
Relevant calcs (spaced by pokemon and set)
252+ Atk Iron Treads Ice Spinner vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 216-256 (61.3 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 68 HP / 0 Def Iron Treads: 176-210 (52 - 62.1%) -- 97.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Iron Treads Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (Balloon) Gholdengo: 218-258 (69.2 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (Defensive) Gholdengo: 242-288 (64 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
YubelVT said:
Actually genuine question, with the supreme centralization of the metagame around Gholdengo and hazards, why haven't people been trying Iron Treads?
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Maaan it's ALWAYS with this Iron Treads type shit.

Who was there during the reign of Tera Ice Regieleki? Iron Treads.

At this same time with Magearna, who was there to put a stop to it? Iron Treads.

In UBERS, who was there to put a stop to miraidon shenanigans??? IRON TREADS

It's actually ridiculous how many times Iron Treads sees play as a counter/check to some of the most obscenely overpowered behemoths gen 9 had to offer. Who knows? Maybe Raging Bolt will wreck the tier. But guess who resists Electric and Dragon?
This thing is like a mosquito -- always finding a way to annoy the ever living shit out of me
 
MattC (Banned) said:
Maaan it's ALWAYS with this Iron Treads type shit.

Who was there during the reign of Tera Ice Regieleki? Iron Treads.

At this same time with Magearna, who was there to put a stop to it? Iron Treads.

In UBERS, who was there to put a stop to miraidon shenanigans??? IRON TREADS

It's actually ridiculous how many times Iron Treads sees play as a counter/check to some of the most obscenely overpowered behemoths gen 9 had to offer. Who knows? Maybe Raging Bolt will wreck the tier. But guess who resists Electric and Dragon?
This thing is like a mosquito -- always finding a way to annoy the ever living shit out of me
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actually tera steel "bulky" thund t stopped tera ice regieleki :)
 
Welcome to mars said:
people are using actually galarian weezing with neutrilizing gas as a defogger because of gholdengo protecting gliscors spikes from other defoggers and spinners that aren’t tusk,which can be forced out by gliscor which sets up spikes,who walls great tusk without ice spinner, this meta is worse than my fucking brain
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Sorry for interrupting the little whining session here over Ghold but Geezing is honestly kinda heat rn. Neutralizing Gas enables a lot of fun shenanigans.
  • gets off Defogs in front of Gholdengo, while being able to status it
  • makes Gliscor a weird switch in by turning its passive healing into passive damage while Geezing is on the field
  • denies Regenerator mons like Glowking and Alomomola their passive recovery
  • statuses and annoys the hell out of Magic Guard Clefable
  • can deny Kingambit Supreme Overlord buffs, outrun adamant variants, and burn it (assuming it isn't Tera Fire ofc)
Like, yeah, its obvious this mon is kind of a niche fit. It lacks a reliable form of recovery outside of Pain Split and struggles with getting its boots knocked and getting chipped that way, it absolutely needs support to help it out. But it is a serviceable defensive mon with one of the only consistent forms of hazard removal we have access to right now, and it also has some good interactions with a lot of OU staples. I really don't think this is the sign of a dying tier that you're making it out to be.

Not to say the meta is in a good state or anything rn, I just think the Geezing slander is misplaced.
 
Tressed said:
Sorry for interrupting the little whining session here over Ghold but Geezing is honestly kinda heat rn. Neutralizing Gas enables a lot of fun shenanigans.
  • gets off Defogs in front of Gholdengo, while being able to status it
  • makes Gliscor a weird switch in by turning its passive healing into passive damage while Geezing is on the field
  • denies Regenerator mons like Glowking and Alomomola their passive recovery
  • statuses and annoys the hell out of Magic Guard Clefable
  • can deny Kingambit Supreme Overlord buffs, outrun adamant variants, and burn it (assuming it isn't Tera Fire ofc)
Like, yeah, its obvious this mon is kind of a niche fit. It lacks a reliable form of recovery outside of Pain Split and struggles with getting its boots knocked and getting chipped that way, it absolutely needs support to help it out. But it is a serviceable defensive mon with one of the only consistent forms of hazard removal we have access to right now, and it also has some good interactions with a lot of OU staples. I really don't think this is the sign of a dying tier that you're making it out to be.

Not to say the meta is in a good state or anything rn, I just think the Geezing slander is misplaced.
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This is a regional form of weezing we’re talking about, not saying weezing is on furret levels of generational mid(it was uubl in gen 3), but some people are relying on a form of WEEZING as consisent hazard removal in the face of gholdengo (which hits it super effectively without tera but hates the passive damage of burn)
Kin+ak (✧∇✧) said:
I think Rain these days need overqwil as Well as basculegion. Then add pelipper, zapdos/ thundurus And some ogerpon-w.
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my favourite part of facing rain teams is when overqwil says “its swords dancing time” and swords dances all over my team until rain runs out
 
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post dlc 2 ou players when furret and latias survive the suspect test (the 19th Terastalisation type makes them immune to damage when using boosting moves)
IMG_2087.gif
 
Considering how strong manaphy is as a tera abuser already, I fear what tera fire v-create Victini could do if Victini returns as one of the home transfer mythicals in DLC2, as I don't think many things want to switch into that

And if Victini gets victory dance, yeah that's gonna be insane too if it ends up coming back and getting that
 
BolTingBlazie said:
Considering how strong manaphy is as a tera abuser already, I fear what tera fire v-create Victini could do if Victini returns as one of the home transfer mythicals in DLC2, as I don't think many things want to switch into that

And if Victini gets victory dance, yeah that's gonna be insane too if it ends up coming back and getting that
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Victini sweep let's GO (pls no)
 
BolTingBlazie said:
Considering how strong manaphy is as a tera abuser already, I fear what tera fire v-create Victini could do if Victini returns as one of the home transfer mythicals in DLC2, as I don't think many things want to switch into that

And if Victini gets victory dance, yeah that's gonna be insane too if it ends up coming back and getting that
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Lead ting lu can still survive a hit to set up stealth rock
 
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