Easy, my friend. With, almost, all of the HO mons being removed from the SV OU tier, all we REALLY have left is good Stall mons. In retrospect, Gliscor was, ironically, extremely proficient at breaking Stall with Toxic and hazards.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
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well, the simple answer is that we didn't. this is not "full-on stall" and i'm still primarily seeing offense. for that matter, gliscor didn't turn the tier into a stallfest either—it was a bigger buff to offensive teams for its ability to toss three layers of spikes onto the field whenever it wanted, and that made stall worse because it was forced into stuff like "6 boots" or "5 boots 1 clef" or "4 boots 1 clef 1 gliscor". calling the current meta stall-heavy is an incredibly uninformed take
I don't know how high on the ladder you are, but I can guarantee you it's not even close to being a Stall-centric meta. It is in fact still quite focused around H-stack HO teams with Samurott-H being quite the popular mon right now. The only true fat/stally mons you might face on a regular basis are Clef, Ting-Lu, Dondozo, Glowking and Amoonguss. I've tried playing Gen 8 again these past few days, and you guys must have forgotten how garbage that meta was, with fat Stall mons on every single team and bulky cores with Teleport and Wish literally everywhere, plus the neverending 16 PPs Recover and the widespread Toxic. THAT was a boring, stall-centric, repetitive meta, the one we currently have doesn't even come close to that level. Once you play Gen 8 again you honestly feel blessed with the current competitive scene.
RIP Sneasler, nobody here will miss you
The question now being, who's next? Probably either Ghold or Gambit I think, leaning towards Ghold
The question now being, who's next? Probably either Ghold or Gambit I think, leaning towards Ghold
i'm still hoping for a last-minute "quickban 'em all and let the dlc2 survey sort them out", but that would probably make people whine, so i suppose ghold if anything
Just because Gen 9 Stall doesn't share the same propensity as Gen 8 Stall doesn't mean it's any less Stall oriented. Based off what YOU mentioned, the only difference is that Teleport was removed for Gen 9, and Recovery was severely limited. That's all.
I don't think Sneasler was broken enough to be Quickbanned, but hey, since whenever I tried to use it I found the thing underwhelming, I don't really care about it, it doesn't affect me and my builds. Won't miss the fake Weavile.
Now, the only thing I hope now is that Gholdengo is dealt with before SPL (which I am unlikely to play) and OST (which I will play). This guy should have been banned in December 2022 and never looked back.
Now, the only thing I hope now is that Gholdengo is dealt with before SPL (which I am unlikely to play) and OST (which I will play). This guy should have been banned in December 2022 and never looked back.
Yeah that's what I thought. I really haven't been playing much lately, but I feel like some are making way too hyperbolic statements regarding the state of OU.
Hoping for, in this order, Ghold Gambit Gliscor retest (provided Ghold is banned, don't drop gliscor otherwise)
literally just run dondozo and you beat sneasler
This is exactly right, Dondozo is like one of the safest choices possible vs Sneasler and will continue to be used on stall without changing set at all. This change is very nice for balance teams, but a certain subset of players don't know the difference
Leng Loi's team actually works pretty well vs this combo because you'd just Tera Steel Clodsire because Amoonguss can handle Brokerpon without burning Tera
This is exactly why Tera Captain is a joke of an idea and the fact that it actually made it onto a real suspect ballot is shameful, because it favors offensive Tera users, aka already Tera's most toxic and suffocating aspect, to a ridiculous degree because they maintain their power and become impossible to defensively check, and essentially makes defensive tera aka the most interesting healthy and dynamic aspect of Tera unviable. Who looks at gen 9 HO hell and says "you know what would improve this? If only offensive mons could Tera and reactive tera was impossible"
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I have to wonder, do you have to pick between a meta full of stall vs a meta full of HO? Like... can't there be a metagame where BO is just good?
I def won't miss the toxic / knock / scald spam, but I def don't think this metagame is any bit enjoyable.
Ngl, I can clearly admit I am playing around 1600 rn, and my ladder is not good. But to be honest, I've played a dozen of games this morning and faced... 8 stalls, 5 BO with Skeleridge, or Garganacl, or Unaware CM Clef.
Yes this is not the overall ladder, but this is quite annoying to try something with this pokemons. But this is the feeling I had, and yes, once more, that's not the entire meta. But I am stucked deeling with stalls I don't really know how to counter, with protects everywhere, awfuls disgustings mons etc.
alr dawg
Skeledirge and Garganacl aren't really stall mons, what else were on the teams
smogon "most laugh reacts in 10 minutes" category world record holder
QB'ing gambit is pretty much exactly what the council wants to avoid after the Volc ban. Not because it doesn't deserve to be banned (it does) but because it survived a suspect test the last go round and it's pretty much maintained status quo since. It's not any more or less ridiculous than it was last time. QB'ing it (even if kind of justified) simply because you're not sure it'll get banned in suspect test is kind of shitty. It kind of sends the message 'if you don't do it we will'. Which the council doesn't want to do.
Even QB'ing Ghold is a little sketchy, it's like 55-45 to get banned not a clear 60+% chance to get banned. I could easily see it surviving a suspect, simply because I think the format is legitimately going to get way worse in the immediate aftermath of it's departure. It puts a decent number of problematic mons in check, even if it's ultimately unhealthy. Even if banning it is a necessary step on the way to format health, the gates of hell are going to open upon it's departure, and that's something that if the council QBs it is going to create a lot of bad feelings. A mon getting suspect test punted followed by a messed up format is kind of a 'doh' moment for the community, but the council QBing something and creating an immediately worse format is very bad for the council.
Even QB'ing Ghold is a little sketchy, it's like 55-45 to get banned not a clear 60+% chance to get banned. I could easily see it surviving a suspect, simply because I think the format is legitimately going to get way worse in the immediate aftermath of it's departure. It puts a decent number of problematic mons in check, even if it's ultimately unhealthy. Even if banning it is a necessary step on the way to format health, the gates of hell are going to open upon it's departure, and that's something that if the council QBs it is going to create a lot of bad feelings. A mon getting suspect test punted followed by a messed up format is kind of a 'doh' moment for the community, but the council QBing something and creating an immediately worse format is very bad for the council.
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people saying SV OU of all things is turning into a stallfest just really boggles the mind. i don't build stall, don't play stall, but damn i have to respect a well-built stall team for all the threats it has to cover. there's hazards, taunt/encore users, protosynthesis/supreme overlord mons that ignore unaware, and powerful set-up sweepers all over this meta. even outside offensive builds, there's fat regen mons on balance (glowking, momo, the rising torn-t) that stall struggles to make progress against. losing to stall in this meta comes down to either your team being unprepared for the match-up or skillful teambuilding and/or play from the stall user.
if you find yourself struggling with stall, Pinkacross just released a great video about how to handle it that i highly recommend
if you find yourself struggling with stall, Pinkacross just released a great video about how to handle it that i highly recommend
yeah but what defensive utility does volcarona bring to the metagame that moltres does not already provide? there really isnt much reason to unban it because of this, especially when we already have a defensive fire type that provides an identical defensive profile and doesnt threaten to sweep your entire team from preview on a game-to-game basis.
...what? i cant even make this message out, what are you saying? i genuinely cannot tell what point this is trying to convey.
seconded, stall has been hurting real bad this gen, especially after the gliscor ban. it is not that hard to break stall, especially not with all the new offensive tools added in SV and gholdengo being seen on 1/3 of all teams. if anyone is complaining about the playstyle (beyond it just being tiresome to play against) then they need to learn the matchup and how to teambuild properly.
For a long time i have been switching from “kingambit is broken” to “kingambit is fine” but now i think i know what makes kingambit such an issue, its checks aren’t checks when it teras, tera fairy or tera flying gives it a free turn of set up or allows to kill its checks, iron valiant, great tusk, zamazenta and body press corviknight are great are keeping kingambit at bay, until it teras, now its way harder to stop, after a swords dance and supreme overlord boost, it hits so incredibly hard to the point that it can barely be walled, as suspect results show, most people with suspect reqs do want it banned, but 60% percent of them, unfortunately people seem to be rigging the survey votes not knowing what they’re actually doing, so kingambit will continue to rule over ou with an iron fist (haha funni) until something in the second comes to humble it like upper hand iron hands or iron crown
It's especially bizarre to see people call this meta a stallfest at this point in the gen, where we still have Manaphy, Ghold, and Wellspring around. Granted, all three of those are possible bans, but they haven't been banned right now. Also if someone refers to gen 8 as a stall-dominated meta their knowledge of the game is a bit suspect. Gen 4 is probably the only old gen that could said to be stall dominated and even then that's a bit outdated as while I havent kept up with that gen I know Gyarados HO teams were taking off a few months ago
Idk what you need to consider a pokemon as a defensive stall mon, but Alomomola, Corviknight, Toxapex, The weird monkey Fighting/Poison, Clefable, Blissey, Dondozo, Ting-Lu, I think that's enough no ?
I think the point we're in is very interesting.
By not banning the main mechanic, many mons that are very strong in the format get banned, and I think it will continue so..
Yes, doing like SW/SH is pretty fearsome, but I think we do need a little work on Teracristal.
If Lando-T were in his prime in now, I think it would get banned.
I really hope that there's a solution to this 'ban' problem, but thanks to the modos for putting this work!
By not banning the main mechanic, many mons that are very strong in the format get banned, and I think it will continue so..
Yes, doing like SW/SH is pretty fearsome, but I think we do need a little work on Teracristal.
If Lando-T were in his prime in now, I think it would get banned.
I really hope that there's a solution to this 'ban' problem, but thanks to the modos for putting this work!
Lmao what? That's literally what it means. Stall now lacks Toxic on most of their mons, Blissey has basically become a mon that fits only a specific niche as a Special Wall forced to run CM and Shadow Ball to not be completely and utterly useless during a game, Pex and Slowking no longer get Scald, there's no Ferro (which btw would completely wall Ogerpon, Manaphy, Rillaboom, potentially Gambit and even the likes of Dnite without Fire Punch and Tusk not running CC), nor Fini or Skarmory to further expand the pool of annoying mons. Furthermore, the lack of Teleport alongside the nerf to Recovery is extremely detrimental to the strategy as a whole, reducing considerably the longevity of Stall teams. They aren't just some random nerfs. You also have a mon in Gholdengo that can potentially 6-0 teams with Nasty Plot + Psyshock, so considering all of these changes it is pretty clear that Stall is nowhere near as succesfull and popular as it previously was. It can still be good and you can definitely win games with Stall teams, don't ge me wrong, but to go as far as saying that "Stall is over-centralizing" and the most relevant strategy in this meta is just straight up wrong and idiotic.
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