Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

[tigers jaw]

I mean, they put glimmora in D rank, below cinccino... I love cinccino so much, but come on. That's just not right. Next to I might allow, but not below. I might be competing with Deo-S, but it has things like mortal spin, toxic debris and stealth rocks over Deo-S

you could either use deo-s - a base 180 speed, relatively bulky lead with a good neutral type spread, & every utility option under the sun to set & maintain hazards, alongside knock off to make sure those hazards matter. alternatively, you could use glimmora - a slow as fuck, tauntless (which allows deo-s to prevent your opponent’s hazards anyway, thus making mortal spin moot!!!), pokemon that people have figured out how to limit to a single tspike.

deo-s outclasses glimmora & every other possible hazard lead.

edit: also thought i’d add that deo-s has a way, way easier time in setting more than once during a match than any other lead, thanks to its speed.

 

[Lethargic]

Hate me all you want that's my opinion lol, Moon only S mon, darkrai/blaze mediocre and gouging fire is really good imo. Rain sucks sun is pretty good cba doing all the mons though. Scizor seems like it sucks but tbh a lot of teams are pretty weak to it.

Also wake wasn't on this list for some reason? But I'd put it like A. If someone knows who is able to edit the template tell em to put wake in.

 

[Napoli Burns]

ONLY B rank

glimmora in D rank

There are 4847 spikers, they can't all be A rank. As a suicide lead, deo-s is stronger than samu, i know samu can ""counterlead" deo but this does not mean offering both rocks, spikes and scare the most used spinner in the game and block defoggers with taunt. Is the supreme suicide lead, until he remains ou deo is the top pick

As a solid pokemon who can spikes several times in a game, skarm ting and gliscor are better. Glimmora currently is even spin blocked by skarm, i would never use it and count glimm as hazard removal.

 

[TCTphantom]

you could either use deo-s - a base 150 speed, relatively bulky lead with a good neutral type spread, & every utility option under the sun to set & maintain hazards, alongside knock off to make sure those hazards matter. alternatively, you could use glimmora - a slow as fuck, tauntless (which allows deo-s to prevent your opponent’s hazards anyway, thus making mortal spin moot!!!), pokemon that people have figured out how to limit to a single tspike.

deo-s outclasses glimmora & every other possible hazard lead.

I would push back on the idea it completely invalidates every other hazard lead. I have found Hisuian Samurott in particular to be excellent, in no small part due to its Deo S matchup. You restrict Deo S to one layer of hazards while also setting your own hazards if you run Aqua Jet. That alone is more than enough of a justification to run Lead Hisuian Samurott imo. It also lets you run Offensive Deoxys Speed in the back, which is far and away its most scary set. Is Deoxys Speed a good hazard lead? Absolutely, it can easily guarantee at least one layer of hazards most of the time. There are still niches for other leads if they match up well into it or synergize with its offensive sets.

 

[Heatranator]

Tier list of my thoughts. Imma be real with you guys, I think glimm, iron crown and weavile are hella underrated right now. Glimm can get multiple different hazards up quite well still, iron crown can sweep quite effectively late game (I've been using a booster sp.A, tera flying agility set) and weavile can do its Crown tundra shenanigans once again.

 

[tigers jaw]

I would push back on the idea it completely invalidates every other hazard lead. I have found Hisuian Samurott in particular to be excellent, in no small part due to its Deo S matchup. You restrict Deo S to one layer of hazards while also setting your own hazards if you run Aqua Jet. That alone is more than enough of a justification to run Lead Hisuian Samurott imo. It also lets you run Offensive Deoxys Speed in the back, which is far and away its most scary set. Is Deoxys Speed a good hazard lead? Absolutely, it can easily guarantee at least one layer of hazards most of the time. There are still niches for other leads if they match up well into it or synergize with its offensive sets.

i would rebut this by saying that by running samu as a dedicated hazards lead, for what you gain is almost parity vs opposing deo-s hazard lead teams & the ability to run an offensive deo-s, you more than lose out on in not running your own lead deo-s. samu lacks the better overall utility deo-s has, as well as rocks, also.

in my experience, strict, dedicated hazard lead hyper offence lends itself to structures that don’t need an offensive deo-s, and naturally because of this, deo-s is the lead of choice as it is superior in every other matchup anyway, and can (and should) run mental herb for mirrors - so you can also beat other deo-s leads.

Cuddly ^this

 

[Cuddly]

Something I just noticed is that Kyurem and Raging Bolt has surprisingly similar stats (besides Atk of course). Almost identical bulk, slightly higher SpA, and some less Speed. It’s pretty crazy to think about.

you could either use deo-s - a base 150 speed, relatively bulky lead with a good neutral type spread, & every utility option under the sun to set & maintain hazards, alongside knock off to make sure those hazards matter. alternatively, you could use glimmora - a slow as fuck, tauntless (which allows deo-s to prevent your opponent’s hazards anyway, thus making mortal spin moot!!!), pokemon that people have figured out how to limit to a single tspike.

deo-s outclasses glimmora & every other possible hazard lead.

Nah Samurott-H exists. With Ceaseless Edge, Aqua Jet, and Focus Sash, there really isn’t thing Deoxys-S can do against it that isn’t severally gimping itself. You need to like Tera Fairy or use Colbur Berry, then use 2 attacking moves to even potentially beat it, by which time they already have Spikes advantage.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Something I just noticed is that Kyurem and Raging Bolt has surprisingly similar stats (besides Atk of course). Almost identical bulk, slightly higher SpA, and some less Speed. It’s pretty crazy to think about.

…huh. weird. that is a suspiciously similar stat spread, isn't it. well, i mean, that 20-point difference in speed matters a lot, and the attack lets kyurem also run physical dragon dance/scale shot sets, but aside from that. and of course they have different roles, and kyurem's typing is worse defensively but much better offensively especially when combined with freeze-dry, but bolt gets an ability that's much more useful offensively, the ability to boost its spa, and a really good priority move. if you asked me i'd have to say that kyurem is the better of the two by merit of set diversity and coverage, but it's far from a one-sided contest

 

[Carl The Turtle]

I hate to be the party pooper but if i don't get this off my chest i'll be annoyed all night. Why is the last page of discussion just tierlists when there's a thread for viability rankings in the OU subforum? I get "oh i want people to see this and respond to it", but I think it'd be better to support a project thread in here rather than condensing everything into the metagame discussion thread.

 

[Morkal]

Figured I'd jump in on the fun.

I like the place that the metagame is in right now - while some of these rankings pained me a bit to make, I'm pretty happy with them overall. I'll explain some of the rankings I feel could possibly be a bit eye-raising (feel free to ask me about any of the rankings I've put as well!)

+

I think that the way these two can not only utilize Contrary, but Tera as well (along with Scarf for Enamorus and Glare + 3 attacks for Serperior) has a special hold on the meta that feels like it's pushing the limit. They can turn the tables and generally have the advantage in terms of various matchups because of the guesswork you have to do. As much as I love Enamorus and Serperior as Pokemon, they both might be too much for the tier.



Archaludon is one of the single most slept-on Pokemon I've ever seen - amazing offensive and defensive synergy with so many different set options (no, rain is not the best variant, Dragon Tail + Body Press + Protect with a fourth move of your choice is). It has so many wonderful qualities to it, and its negative qualities (its mediocre Special Defense) are negligible in comparison IMO. Easily my favorite Pokemon to use in OU and I'm hoping it becomes an OU mainstay.

and

Great Pokemon, not OP by any means. Raging Bolt requires using Tera to break through certain archetypes while Kingambit has been suffocated by a huge portion of the competition (I didn't think King was broken during DLC1 or Pre-DLC either, tbh). Thunderclap and Sucker Punch are both great, not game-breaking - they can be played around with the correct prediction and proper teambuilding.

and

Darkrai feels like a breath of fresh air in the tier and I'm so happy the decision was made to drop him. Hypnosis is the worst set (called it ages ago), Life Orb + Nasty Plot is the way to go. He's manageable but still strong - Darkrai hates status and requires setup to do quite a lot of the things that it wants to do if it's not running the Scarf variant (don't run Specs, it's not worth it), in addition to having bad 4MSS. Roaring Moon is extremely powerful and I'm teetering between S and A+ for him frequently, but at the same time, I constantly feel that Roaring Moon dies so quickly and just doesn't get the opportunity to fire off its nuclear attacks - usually sending a Fairy or Fighting attack its way is enough to drop it.



I love this thing - it's not broken imo, it's balanced - sure its Quark speed may be frightening, but generally to hit certain speed thresholds people will be running Jolly, which means Swords Dance is practically a requirement to break through a lot of teams (this can easily be preyed upon). Iron Boulder suffers from 4MSS as well (not as much as Darkrai does, but still a notable amount) as it never feels like it can attack all the threats that it wants to attack.



Meow is good, but not OP by any means. Triple Axel is great but generally has plenty of counterplay (and Archaludon eats multi-attacks for breakfast). Basically - strong fast multi-functional offensive pivot, not overwhelming, at least in my experiences playing against it.



Not sure how I feel about this thing - it's very obviously powerful, varied, and has a lot of utility but is it OP? I think the meta does warp around it, but I'm not sure whether that's from people being paranoid about it due to its bonkers speed, or whether it's warping due to its insane qualities. Every Deoxys-S set has notable counterplay - I think the problem is that multiple sets require multiple forms of counterplay, which, I haven't felt Deoxys-S stretch my focus in the teambuilder - but my Deo-S answer is Assault Vest Kricketune (fun mon btw, Kricketune got better than it was in DLC1), so I'm already using non-meta stuff as is so maybe I'm not the best one to judge Deo-S in that regard. Either way, it's personally not the most threatening Pokemon I've had to deal with in this new meta (Enamorus and Serperior are).

 

[Cuddly]

There are 4847 spikers, they can't all be A rank. As a suicide lead, deo-s is stronger than samu, i know samu can ""counterlead" deo but this does not mean offering both rocks, spikes and scare the most used spinner in the game and block defoggers with taunt. Is the supreme suicide lead, until he remains ou deo is the top pick

As a solid pokemon who can spikes several times in a game, skarm ting and gliscor are better. Glimmora currently is even spin blocked by skarm, i would never use it and count glimm as hazard removal.

Thing is that Samurott-H sets Spikes while attacking AND while using a Dark move.
In a Deo-S ditto, you both kind of just set hazards in each other’s face with maybe some variation like anti-leads with Extreme Speed. Problem is you have to decide on if you should deny hazards or stack hazards yourself.
Samurott-H comes into play by attacking Deoxys-S at the same time as stacking hazards.
In that way, you’re get the advantage in hazard stacking. Let’s break down every scenario that could happen excluding hax.

-Deoxys-S uses Stealth Rock or Spikes > Samurott-H uses Ceaseless Edge > Deoxys-S was holding Mental Herb and is OHKO’d > Your lead is still alive and has Sash preserved

-Deoxys-S uses Stealth Rock or Spikes > Samurott-H uses Ceaseless Edge > Deoxys-S was holding onto Focus Sash so it more than likely breaks > both sides have 1 layer of hazards > Samurott-H uses Aqua Jet to deny Deoxys-S from setting more hazards > Your lead is still alive and has Sash preserved

-Deoxys-S uses Stealth Rock or Spikes > Samurott-H uses Ceaseless Edge > Deoxys-S was holding onto Focus Sash so it more than likely breaks > both sides have 1 layer of hazards > Deoxys-S uses Stealth Rock or Spikes > You use Ceaseless Edge again > Your opponent may have Rock + Spike up, which does more than 2 spikes on neutral targets, but you deny them from setting more layers up and you can use Ceaseless Edge again to have full layer of Spikes

-Deoxys-S attacks you with any move that can hit you super effectively > Samurott-H lives with 1 HP and uses Ceaseless Edge > Circle back to Deoxys-S holding Mental Herb or Focus Sash in both scenarios > Samurott-H Aqua Jets and Deoxys-S can’t get up any layers while you have 1 spike layer up

-Deoxys-S attacks you with any move that can hit you super effectively > Samurott-H lives with 1 HP and uses Ceaseless Edge > Circle back to Deoxys-S holding Mental Herb or Focus Sash in both scenarios > Deoxys-S then uses Extreme Speed to finish of Samurott-H assuming it didn’t Tera Ghost > Deoxys-S lives but not having any hazards up and you can send in amything, likely a scarfer or speed booster energy Pokemon like Iron Boulder

Basically for Deoxys-S to win it needs to Tera, Tera into a Dark resist like Fairy or Dark, or hold a Colbur Berry, and it needs to set up full hazards (where by then Samurott-H already put up 3 layers of spikes) or attack Samurott-H with 2 different attacks and hope one of those attacks isn’t blocked by Ghost Tera. Also keep in mind doing so cripples Deoxys-S in other match-ups as well. Tera Fairy or Dark means you’re not Tera Ghost for Rapid Spinners. Colbur Berry means you don’t survive strong Ghost or Bug moves. And if you say want to do a 2 hit combo, you need first invest heavily in Atk, and then run Superpower and Extreme Speed, and unless you’re adamant you sometimes fail to KO due to Atk drop from Superpower.

i would rebut this by saying that by running samu as a dedicated hazards lead, for what you gain is almost parity vs opposing deo-s hazard lead teams & the ability to run an offensive deo-s, you more than lose out on in not running your own lead deo-s. samu lacks the better overall utility deo-s has, as well as rocks, also.

Cuddly ^this

I actually use Lead Samurott-H + Screens Deoxys-S.
Lead Samurott-H almost guarantees you win hazard wars against opposing Doexys-S as well as teams running Hatterene. And with Screens Deoxys, you are the fastest Screens setter with access to Teleport as well.
I haven’t tried that combo out after Terapagos was banned, but I assume you can easily swap Terapagos for something like Gouging Fire.

 

[ausma]

I hate to be the party pooper but if i don't get this off my chest i'll be annoyed all night. Why is the last page of discussion just tierlists when there's a thread for viability rankings in the OU subforum? I get "oh i want people to see this and respond to it", but I think it'd be better to support a project thread in here rather than condensing everything into the metagame discussion thread.

I’ll also point out that it’s ok to discuss these VRs on that thread as it is still on topic!

That said, I personally don’t mind people discussing their stances on viability in the main discussion thread, but I do advocate for the idea of supporting our project hosts on the forum as they’re putting in a lot of effort to contribute to the community. I’d personally suggest posting and discussing your VRs there, but I don’t necessarily see a reason to bar it from discussion here as long as there are constructive conversations being held about the metagame relating to them.

 

[peepeepoopoo722]

I've tried every deoxys set imaginable but the most reliable has definitely been four attacks. He's really not bulky enough to come in many times and needs saved for clean up. Biggest problem is that psychic doesn't do enough and psycho boost comes with the drop forcing you out. It's definitely an asset to have but I'm not seeing it as OP. Feel free to share replays or maybe it's op use is still to be discovered but I think he's here to stay.

 

[pika pal]

i would rebut this by saying that by running samu as a dedicated hazards lead, for what you gain is almost parity vs opposing deo-s hazard lead teams & the ability to run an offensive deo-s, you more than lose out on in not running your own lead deo-s. samu lacks the better overall utility deo-s has, as well as rocks, also.

in my experience, strict, dedicated hazard lead hyper offence lends itself to structures that don’t need an offensive deo-s, and naturally because of this, deo-s is the lead of choice as it is superior in every other matchup anyway, and can (and should) run mental herb for mirrors - so you can also beat other deo-s leads.

Cuddly ^this

Wouldn't offensive Deo-S logically thrive with the Hazard stacking from teammates by virtue of maximizing coverage and the chip damage putting things in range of one-shotting for it to leverage its unmatched speed tier?

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

This meta is awful.

honestly, i feel the complete opposite. this is leagues better than teal mask, post-home, or base ou were at this point, and a lot of the new additions are very fun without seeming too unbalanced to me. of course, my opinion on this is subject to change as new-toy syndrome settles down and we find out whatever broken things are lurking below the surface (they're there, i can feel it), but as of right now i have to say this is actually pretty good as far as week-one metas go and i have to commend both the council for its decision to not repeat the crown tundra unbanfest and game freak for somehow, inexplicably, incomprehensibly, managing to not fuck everything up

 

[Beeg Lad]

Figured I'd jump in on the fun.

View attachment 582164

I like the place that the metagame is in right now - while some of these rankings pained me a bit to make, I'm pretty happy with them overall. I'll explain some of the rankings I feel could possibly be a bit eye-raising (feel free to ask me about any of the rankings I've put as well!)

+

I think that the way these two can not only utilize Contrary, but Tera as well (along with Scarf for Enamorus and Glare + 3 attacks for Serperior) has a special hold on the meta that feels like it's pushing the limit. They can turn the tables and generally have the advantage in terms of various matchups because of the guesswork you have to do. As much as I love Enamorus and Serperior as Pokemon, they both might be too much for the tier.



Archaludon is one of the single most slept-on Pokemon I've ever seen - amazing offensive and defensive synergy with so many different set options (no, rain is not the best variant, Dragon Tail + Body Press + Protect with a fourth move of your choice is). It has so many wonderful qualities to it, and its negative qualities (its mediocre Special Defense) are negligible in comparison IMO. Easily my favorite Pokemon to use in OU and I'm hoping it becomes an OU mainstay.

and

Great Pokemon, not OP by any means. Raging Bolt requires using Tera to break through certain archetypes while Kingambit has been suffocated by a huge portion of the competition (I didn't think King was broken during DLC1 or Pre-DLC either, tbh). Thunderclap and Sucker Punch are both great, not game-breaking - they can be played around with the correct prediction and proper teambuilding.

and

Darkrai feels like a breath of fresh air in the tier and I'm so happy the decision was made to drop him. Hypnosis is the worst set (called it ages ago), Life Orb + Nasty Plot is the way to go. He's manageable but still strong - Darkrai hates status and requires setup to do quite a lot of the things that it wants to do if it's not running the Scarf variant (don't run Specs, it's not worth it), in addition to having bad 4MSS. Roaring Moon is extremely powerful and I'm teetering between S and A+ for him frequently, but at the same time, I constantly feel that Roaring Moon dies so quickly and just doesn't get the opportunity to fire off its nuclear attacks - usually sending a Fairy or Fighting attack its way is enough to drop it.



I love this thing - it's not broken imo, it's balanced - sure its Quark speed may be frightening, but generally to hit certain speed thresholds people will be running Jolly, which means Swords Dance is practically a requirement to break through a lot of teams (this can easily be preyed upon). Iron Boulder suffers from 4MSS as well (not as much as Darkrai does, but still a notable amount) as it never feels like it can attack all the threats that it wants to attack.



Meow is good, but not OP by any means. Triple Axel is great but generally has plenty of counterplay (and Archaludon eats multi-attacks for breakfast). Basically - strong fast multi-functional offensive pivot, not overwhelming, at least in my experiences playing against it.



Not sure how I feel about this thing - it's very obviously powerful, varied, and has a lot of utility but is it OP? I think the meta does warp around it, but I'm not sure whether that's from people being paranoid about it due to its bonkers speed, or whether it's warping due to its insane qualities. Every Deoxys-S set has notable counterplay - I think the problem is that multiple sets require multiple forms of counterplay, which, I haven't felt Deoxys-S stretch my focus in the teambuilder - but my Deo-S answer is Assault Vest Kricketune (fun mon btw, Kricketune got better than it was in DLC1), so I'm already using non-meta stuff as is so maybe I'm not the best one to judge Deo-S in that regard. Either way, it's personally not the most threatening Pokemon I've had to deal with in this new meta (Enamorus and Serperior are).

I’ve been following your off-meta picks for a bit now, big fan, btw!
A few things I’m curious about, though. First off, where would you put torkoal? I noticed it wasn’t on the list.
Second, why do you think swampert is B tier? It’s one of my favorite starters, so I’m curious what’s possible with it.
And third, what are your personal sets for skeledirge? I’ve noticed a few people have put it decently high, so I wanna know what it can pull off in this meta.

 

[Gohankuten]

So how are people feeling the String Cheese man atm? Are people still on board with booting the cheese man out of here so we can help alleviate the hazards?

 

[Morkal]

This meta is awful. Feels like we're back to the exact same problem we had immediately following the Teal Mask drop where HO and stall are the only viable playstyles. IMO right now it's just the usual suspects causing the problems, namely Roaring Moon and Gliscor. I'm not totally sold on Volc being broken yet but I guess we'll see if that changes in time.

I disagree - Teal Mask had very specific threats leaning towards that HO focus, and even then it was just an extension of the pre-DLC's meta (not much changed imo). However, this meta is an entirely different beast because the entire nature of the tier has shifted focus towards different types of threats. Really the main contentious issues are not outright broken (like Terror Turtle), but instead possibly too centralizing (Deoxys-S, Enamorus, Serperior, etc).

honestly, i feel the complete opposite. this is leagues better than teal mask, post-home, or base ou were at this point, and a lot of the new additions are very fun without seeming too unbalanced to me. of course, my opinion on this is subject to change as new-toy syndrome settles down and we find out whatever broken things are lurking below the surface (they're there, i can feel it), but as of right now i have to say this is actually pretty good as far as week-one metas go

I echo this viewpoint by DaddyBuzzwole - this meta is league more engaging than DLC1 and, while arguments can be made that DLC1 was stable, it was stable in a way that was creatively stagnant (even with the creative boon of Tera uplifting it). DLC1 was still fun, but not to the degree that DLC2 is by far.

I’ve been following your off-meta picks for a bit now, big fan, btw!
A few things I’m curious about, though. First off, where would you put torkoal? I noticed it wasn’t on the list.
Second, why do you think swampert is B tier? It’s one of my favorite starters, so I’m curious what’s possible with it.
And third, what are your personal sets for skeledirge? I’ve noticed a few people have put it decently high, so I wanna know what it can pull off in this meta.

Thank you so much, I really appreciate that! :) I would have put Torkoal in the same tier as Venusaur if it was a selectable option on the TierMaker (A tier), but it wasn't. Sun is really good right now, and Torkoal is the premier setter. Torkoal did take a hit in the form of the meta being more focused on special threats (Torkoal's special defense is pitiful compared to its physical), but it's still great. Swampert got access to Knock Off - combined with Flip Turn, phenomenal bulk, great typing, and other fantastic qualities, I feel Pert is better than it has been in a long time - basically Swampert is great bulky utility with momentum. As for Skeledirge, most of the sets I've seen have been Unaware Lefties Hex Wisp Torch Slack Off with either Tera Fighting, Normal, or Fairy (especially Fairy) - pretty typical sets but with more concrete Tera typings. As for the EVs, I've seen way more people spec into HP + Special Defense due to the nature of the meta as of late.

So how are people feeling the String Cheese man atm? Are people still on board with booting the cheese man out of here so we can help alleviate the hazards?

took a hit in viability imo - don't get me wrong he's still fantastic, but with such a heavy focus on the Dark/Fighting/Psychic meta trio run right now, it's pretty difficult to get him to do things he could do without sweating before. Basically - still a great mon, but requires a little support himself compared to before when support was required to handle him.

 

[Beeg Lad]

Thank you so much, I really appreciate that! :) I would have put Torkoal in the same tier as Venusaur if it was a selectable option on the TierMaker (A tier), but it wasn't. Sun is really good right now, and Torkoal is the premier setter. Torkoal did take a hit in the form of the meta being more focused on special threats (Torkoal's special defense is pitiful compared to its physical), but it's still great. Swampert got access to Knock Off - combined with Flip Turn, phenomenal bulk, great typing, and other fantastic qualities, I feel Pert is better than it has been in a long time - basically Swampert is great bulky utility with momentum. As for Skeledirge, most of the sets I've seen have been Unaware Lefties Hex Wisp Torch Slack Off with either Tera Fighting, Normal, or Fairy (especially Fairy) - pretty typical sets but with more concrete Tera typings. As for the EVs, I've seen way more people spec into HP + Special Defense due to the nature of the meta as of late.

Thank you for responding! I just have one last question: what sets would you run on pert? I really want to build with it.

 

[Cuddly]

So how are people feeling the String Cheese man atm? Are people still on board with booting the cheese man out of here so we can help alleviate the hazards?

Booting Gholdengo would be more of a mistake now. Iron Boulder is a massive threat and Gholdengo is one of its best answers, in addition to all the other things Gholdengo checks. It’s a glue for many teams and prevents some Pokemon being overpowered.
Also I’d say hazards are more managable now. Great Tusk gets Fire coverage so BalloonDengo isn’t an answer to stopping Great Tusk. Also Hetterene was buffed making it a bit better and we got new Magic Guard Pokemon.

 

[tommytt22]

I know the consensus is skarm=good but what's the ev spread most are running? Physdef? Speed? Spdef? Only ones I ran into so far were rocky helmet but it's so bulky already it's hard to know what spread most of them are

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

So how are people feeling the String Cheese man atm? Are people still on board with booting the cheese man out of here so we can help alleviate the hazards?

i still think there should probably be a ghold suspect at some point because i don't think it's gotten any less unhealthy despite the influx of new tools against it. its effects can still be felt in plenty of games where it isn't even present, and hazards have gotten even better since last dlc thanks to the re-addition of gliscor as well as new stuff such as skarmory and deoxys-speed (though not deo-d, which i still maintain is not just mid but actively bad right now because of how massive the opportunity cost of not using deo-s is). but i can't really say anything definitive because things are still developing

 

[TPP]

I know the consensus is skarm=good but what's the ev spread most are running? Physdef? Speed? Spdef? Only ones I ran into so far were rocky helmet but it's so bulky already it's hard to know what spread most of them are

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: ???
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Roost

For Phys Def, I'd recommend this so that you have enough speed to outspeed Adamant Gambit with max speed (hits 199 while you hit 200)

 

[Morkal]

Thank you for responding! I just have one last question: what sets would you run on pert? I really want to build with it.

Here's one of my personal favorite Swampert sets -

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Flip Turn
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake​

Rocks, Knock, STAB Flip Turn, STAB EQ - special bulk works the best in this meta and Water/Ground typing resists a lot of things that Swampert handles naturally as is. Grass is somewhat more scarce right now as an offensive typing which works well in Pert's favor. Tera Poison works great blocking Toxic + Fairy spam.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: ???
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Roost

For Phys Def, I'd recommend this so that you have enough speed to outspeed Adamant Gambit with max speed (hits 199 while you hit 200)

for tera, i'd think dragon would be best for flipping skarm's matchups against fire and electric attacks, or fighting to boost body press and improve your gambit matchup against tera dark sets. more generally, i think a good rule of thumb for skarmory's tera is "whatever corviknight is running right now" because their defensive matchups are virtually identical