hi
-
Follow our Instagram!
-
Curious about what we're currently doing about bots? Check out the latest updates from staff in this thread.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame SV Draft League General Discussion
- Thread starter Hacker
- Start date
welcome to smogon draft Mr seagull
hi seagus
So I got knocked out of Low Tier Draft after going 7-1 in Swiss and making it into the top 32. It was a fun one but after analysing the game I just played, the simple reality of it is "I should've played better, we go again next time." I'll talk about my draft process, some of the games with the draft and any improvements I think I could've made.
- The MVP of my draft. From the moment I saw that this mon was tera legal, I had to draft it. Now I don't remember draft order at this current time but I got it and frankly, it might be a bit too strong with tera? idk, I didn't feel it was that ultra broken, the mon is just naturally really strong in this format and tera compliments that very well.
- Fighting types are very important in LT from what I noticed playing in this tour. Its strong vs fire Tauros, which was drafted a good number thanks to its Fairy neutrality. I felt Water Tauros was the better Fighter to get there, Intimidate is good, fast, hits hard. There wasn't a game where I didn't bring Tauros.
- Needed a special attacker and Salazzle was very good at what it did. Threatened the Steels like Tinkaton.
- Electrics were also something I felt were useful to have as well. The set versatility of Rotom is something that is beneficial. Can go scarf, defensive utility, bulky setup.
- I'm ngl, Bisharp is a massive massive stinker. It just doesn't do anything, Fighters really annoy it and as a "Psychic answer", it just loses to Gardevoir, Braviary and it felt like every game, most of the opposing mons just beat it. Maybe if you made it your tera captain, it could perform but its typing is just way too exploitable in LT and it also just kinda lacks damage without Knock Off.
- Spiritomb on the other hand was amazing value just for 7 points. Combining the qualities of both Ghost and Dark lead to it being quite the solid Fighting type answer in the format. Like if I just had Spiritomb as my dark and I swapped out Bisharp for basically anything useful, my draft would've benefitted a lot from it.
- I was also just saving a lot of points using Sandaconda. Bulky, nothing ever likes taking Glare since speed is so important to have. Offers hazard support in rocks. I would've liked to have gone a Coil set but I had other setup mons more consistent.
- Quaxwell had secondary removal option in Spin against Braviary's Defog (Disclaimer: Defog Brav is a waste of it but it came once or twice iirc). Quaxwell came one game and got its win so that's better than what Bisharp did the entire tour.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9predlcterapreviewpaldeadexdraft-1945535313
JT__13's team was one I was scared to face but at the same time, I had tools to dismantle them quite efficiently. Tera Fairy made sense to me on Hisui Braviary, my team doesn't really take Dragon moves from Noivern well and Bisharp was hugging the bench for the 4th consecutive time. Also loses to Sandy Shocks, Typhlosion, Zangoose and Forretress. Now you see why I don't rate it. Salazzle was also coming, faster than everything other than Skewda and Noivern and I could afford Modest to outrun Typhlosion. Scarf Rotom to revenge kill Sandy, Noivern, Barraskewda seems good to me. Spdef Sandaconda as my Sandy Shocks answer + a cope to Typhlosion, pairs well with the AV Tauros which was not 2hkod by a possible specs eruption and max speed to speedtie with Typhlosion while outspeeding mimikyu.
As I expected, the Specs Typhlosion came and the game was mainly trying to limit its switchins and deal with the other members of their team. Calyrex coming did surprise me seeing how it loses to Braviary and a potential Bisharp but ig they didn't expect it to appear. Some hax from me here and there but I won here to get to 4-1.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9predlcterapreviewpaldeadexdraft-1948310658
YukiNekoSE's team was going to be annoying. Cresselia gives me chronic demotivation and Electrode is faster than everything on my team. Starting off my prep, I have Hisui Braviary. Zoroark is a big issue and so is a potential stored power Cresselia. Dark means I resist Dark ofc while being able to 1v1 Cresselia. Tauros is just good at beating up most defensive cores in this format and while there's a Talonflame, Cress and an Electrode was on the opposing side, It's not like I'm bringing Bisharp, which surprise surprise, loses to half their draft! Are we sure this mon is worth 12 valuable points? The rest are pretty standard, Toxic spam, faster than Zoroark, to take advantage of Gastrodon + wincon, to check Talonflame and which is capable of 1v1ing Cress and checks Zoroark and Hariyama.
They surprised me by bringing Specs Talonflame which almost managed to reverse sweep but fortunately my Salazzle was faster than Talonflame. Spiritomb did its job by keeping Cresselia low for Tauros to deal with it and the MVP Braviary managing to outrun everything with Esper Wing. And I win to advance to 5-1.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9predlcterapreviewpaldeadexdraft-1953254721
Now I wouldn't call myself a well known person in the draft space, at least if you compare it to my Smogon reputation but I knew that JimmyG was someone known in the draft community who most consider to be good at the game. The way to prove that you're good at the game is beating players with a known reputation and knowing who I'm up against never bothers me, I have completely faith I'll win every game I play but I'll tell you the prep is hard. Thank the god Iron Leaves isn't tera but Jolteon can easily go tera ice to dismantle Sandaconda + Rotom. I also don't have the best switchins to Volcanion. I of course, like every round, slap on Hisui Braviary. I decided tera electric so I can resist Jolteon's electric moves, check Volcanion and resist a Wild Charge from a SD Iron Leaves. The physical defence I'm running leaves me never worrying about Grimmsnarl post-tera or Iron Leaves. Tauros with AV was my Volcanion check, Salazzle outsped Iron Leaves and their Fire/Poison switchins weren't existing. Rotom-Mow to somewhat answer Jolteon and Volcanion. Sandaconda for the hazards and Spiritomb as a secondary Leaves check. Ofc Bisharp didn't come.
JimmyG got a massive headstart on me, I had 2 mons dead by turn 7 just because cm Jolteon is a menace but I'm not worried. Braviary comes in clutch with its physdef set handling Iron Leaves and Tauros with Aqua Jet prevents Venomoth from doing anything. I end up winning with Sandaconda and I'm 6-1. It was a very hard game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9predlcterapreviewpaldeadexdraft-1958764428
Last game before top cut and I really want to guarantee my place in top 32. I never really wanted to face Gardevoir, it's like a Typhlosion situation where I am just not equipped to switch into reliably. My only steel type is neutral and also just loses to everything else, like usual. Trying to handle Gardevoir was my number 1 priority. Everything else was manageable. I brought the demon Braviary set, tera Psychic Stored Power. Tinted Lens means no switchins aka no switchins and as long as they don't go tera dark Oricorio (they didn't), I know it would sweep and win me the game. EV spread is weird but I believe +2 outruns scarf Lycanroc or smth and I had enough spatk evs to OHKO garde after an Agility and one Calm Mind. I'm really in the matrix. Tauros was here to simply check Fire Tauros, also solid vs Magnezone, Toedscruel and Lycanroc. Sandaconda is my respite vs Gardevoir (still 2hkos if they were specs) and hardwalls Zone (again 2hkod by specs analytic flash cannon). First time I had to go Scarf Salazzle though, if they went scarf garde the game wouldve been very long. Rotom-Mow also checks Mag, my spore switchin and can 1v1 Toedscruel with Night Shade and finally QUAXWELL WITH THE 100% WIN RATE. BRO DOESN'T CARE ABOUT TAUROS AND LYCANROC AT ALL!
It was good that discovered early on in the game the Tauros-Fire was banded so I could potentially play around with CC since Braviary x4 resists fighting (which is what ended up happening to win me the game). I'm satisfied I outplayed the Toedscruel with the combination of Rotom + Quaxwell, running Brave Bird to critically deal with Toedscruel. I felt as if I had the flow of the game in my hands and I'm happy Braviary did Braviary things. And that's how I ended up with 7-1 record.
Overall, there's a reason why I initially hosted the Low Tier because it's quite a fun format using underappreciated pokemon. This is my best placement out of the numerous draft tours that have been ran over the past year and I feel like I've improved after having an average Kick-Off at the start of the gen and I didn't even make it out of pools in ORAS and SS Cups. Hopefully I can ride on this success to the next draft circuit.
- The MVP of my draft. From the moment I saw that this mon was tera legal, I had to draft it. Now I don't remember draft order at this current time but I got it and frankly, it might be a bit too strong with tera? idk, I didn't feel it was that ultra broken, the mon is just naturally really strong in this format and tera compliments that very well. - Fighting types are very important in LT from what I noticed playing in this tour. Its strong vs fire Tauros, which was drafted a good number thanks to its Fairy neutrality. I felt Water Tauros was the better Fighter to get there, Intimidate is good, fast, hits hard. There wasn't a game where I didn't bring Tauros. - Needed a special attacker and Salazzle was very good at what it did. Threatened the Steels like Tinkaton. - Electrics were also something I felt were useful to have as well. The set versatility of Rotom is something that is beneficial. Can go scarf, defensive utility, bulky setup. - I'm ngl, Bisharp is a massive massive stinker. It just doesn't do anything, Fighters really annoy it and as a "Psychic answer", it just loses to Gardevoir, Braviary and it felt like every game, most of the opposing mons just beat it. Maybe if you made it your tera captain, it could perform but its typing is just way too exploitable in LT and it also just kinda lacks damage without Knock Off. - Spiritomb on the other hand was amazing value just for 7 points. Combining the qualities of both Ghost and Dark lead to it being quite the solid Fighting type answer in the format. Like if I just had Spiritomb as my dark and I swapped out Bisharp for basically anything useful, my draft would've benefitted a lot from it. - I was also just saving a lot of points using Sandaconda. Bulky, nothing ever likes taking Glare since speed is so important to have. Offers hazard support in rocks. I would've liked to have gone a Coil set but I had other setup mons more consistent. - Quaxwell had secondary removal option in Spin against Braviary's Defog (Disclaimer: Defog Brav is a waste of it but it came once or twice iirc). Quaxwell came one game and got its win so that's better than what Bisharp did the entire tour.My 5 most recent games
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9predlcterapreviewpaldeadexdraft-1945535313
JT__13's team was one I was scared to face but at the same time, I had tools to dismantle them quite efficiently. Tera Fairy made sense to me on Hisui Braviary, my team doesn't really take Dragon moves from Noivern well and Bisharp was hugging the bench for the 4th consecutive time. Also loses to Sandy Shocks, Typhlosion, Zangoose and Forretress. Now you see why I don't rate it. Salazzle was also coming, faster than everything other than Skewda and Noivern and I could afford Modest to outrun Typhlosion. Scarf Rotom to revenge kill Sandy, Noivern, Barraskewda seems good to me. Spdef Sandaconda as my Sandy Shocks answer + a cope to Typhlosion, pairs well with the AV Tauros which was not 2hkod by a possible specs eruption and max speed to speedtie with Typhlosion while outspeeding mimikyu.
As I expected, the Specs Typhlosion came and the game was mainly trying to limit its switchins and deal with the other members of their team. Calyrex coming did surprise me seeing how it loses to Braviary and a potential Bisharp but ig they didn't expect it to appear. Some hax from me here and there but I won here to get to 4-1.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9predlcterapreviewpaldeadexdraft-1948310658
YukiNekoSE's team was going to be annoying. Cresselia gives me chronic demotivation and Electrode is faster than everything on my team. Starting off my prep, I have Hisui Braviary. Zoroark is a big issue and so is a potential stored power Cresselia. Dark means I resist Dark ofc while being able to 1v1 Cresselia. Tauros is just good at beating up most defensive cores in this format and while there's a Talonflame, Cress and an Electrode was on the opposing side, It's not like I'm bringing Bisharp, which surprise surprise, loses to half their draft! Are we sure this mon is worth 12 valuable points? The rest are pretty standard,
Toxic spam, faster than Zoroark, to take advantage of Gastrodon + wincon, to check Talonflame and which is capable of 1v1ing Cress and checks Zoroark and Hariyama.They surprised me by bringing Specs Talonflame which almost managed to reverse sweep but fortunately my Salazzle was faster than Talonflame. Spiritomb did its job by keeping Cresselia low for Tauros to deal with it and the MVP Braviary managing to outrun everything with Esper Wing. And I win to advance to 5-1.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9predlcterapreviewpaldeadexdraft-1953254721
Now I wouldn't call myself a well known person in the draft space, at least if you compare it to my Smogon reputation but I knew that JimmyG was someone known in the draft community who most consider to be good at the game. The way to prove that you're good at the game is beating players with a known reputation and knowing who I'm up against never bothers me, I have completely faith I'll win every game I play but I'll tell you the prep is hard. Thank the god Iron Leaves isn't tera but Jolteon can easily go tera ice to dismantle Sandaconda + Rotom. I also don't have the best switchins to Volcanion. I of course, like every round, slap on Hisui Braviary. I decided tera electric so I can resist Jolteon's electric moves, check Volcanion and resist a Wild Charge from a SD Iron Leaves. The physical defence I'm running leaves me never worrying about Grimmsnarl post-tera or Iron Leaves. Tauros with AV was my Volcanion check, Salazzle outsped Iron Leaves and their Fire/Poison switchins weren't existing. Rotom-Mow to somewhat answer Jolteon and Volcanion. Sandaconda for the hazards and Spiritomb as a secondary Leaves check. Ofc Bisharp didn't come.
JimmyG got a massive headstart on me, I had 2 mons dead by turn 7 just because cm Jolteon is a menace but I'm not worried. Braviary comes in clutch with its physdef set handling Iron Leaves and Tauros with Aqua Jet prevents Venomoth from doing anything. I end up winning with Sandaconda and I'm 6-1. It was a very hard game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9predlcterapreviewpaldeadexdraft-1958764428
Last game before top cut and I really want to guarantee my place in top 32. I never really wanted to face Gardevoir, it's like a Typhlosion situation where I am just not equipped to switch into reliably. My only steel type is neutral and also just loses to everything else, like usual. Trying to handle Gardevoir was my number 1 priority. Everything else was manageable. I brought the demon Braviary set, tera Psychic Stored Power. Tinted Lens means no switchins aka no switchins and as long as they don't go tera dark Oricorio (they didn't), I know it would sweep and win me the game. EV spread is weird but I believe +2 outruns scarf Lycanroc or smth and I had enough spatk evs to OHKO garde after an Agility and one Calm Mind. I'm really in the matrix. Tauros was here to simply check Fire Tauros, also solid vs Magnezone, Toedscruel and Lycanroc. Sandaconda is my respite vs Gardevoir (still 2hkos if they were specs) and hardwalls Zone (again 2hkod by specs analytic flash cannon). First time I had to go Scarf Salazzle though, if they went scarf garde the game wouldve been very long. Rotom-Mow also checks Mag, my spore switchin and can 1v1 Toedscruel with Night Shade and finally QUAXWELL WITH THE 100% WIN RATE. BRO DOESN'T CARE ABOUT TAUROS AND LYCANROC AT ALL!
It was good that discovered early on in the game the Tauros-Fire was banded so I could potentially play around with CC since Braviary x4 resists fighting (which is what ended up happening to win me the game). I'm satisfied I outplayed the Toedscruel with the combination of Rotom + Quaxwell, running Brave Bird to critically deal with Toedscruel. I felt as if I had the flow of the game in my hands and I'm happy Braviary did Braviary things. And that's how I ended up with 7-1 record.
I know why I lost, we go again next time. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9predlcterapreviewpaldeadexdraft-1969587228
Overall, there's a reason why I initially hosted the Low Tier because it's quite a fun format using underappreciated pokemon. This is my best placement out of the numerous draft tours that have been ran over the past year and I feel like I've improved after having an average Kick-Off at the start of the gen and I didn't even make it out of pools in ORAS and SS Cups. Hopefully I can ride on this success to the next draft circuit.
Yo this chat is dead
Super excited for the returning Pokemon as well as the couple new Pokemon we just got, really excited to try them out and I was interested in thinking how well they'd be tiered for most tiered leagues.
Gonna drop tiering predictions for new pokemon in comparison to the current Draft Championship Document and see where the new mons stand as well as their tera potential, ranked on a scale of 10.
Spoiler Warning obviously :P
Super excited for the returning Pokemon as well as the couple new Pokemon we just got, really excited to try them out and I was interested in thinking how well they'd be tiered for most tiered leagues.
Gonna drop tiering predictions for new pokemon in comparison to the current Draft Championship Document and see where the new mons stand as well as their tera potential, ranked on a scale of 10.
Spoiler Warning obviously :P
17 Points:
Iron Boulder (TERA BANNED):
Omg, another crazy booster energy sweeper?
Being the new 2nd fastest pokemon in the game on switchin is big, while Rock/Psychic might look like pretty bad offensive stabs together, it also has access to Close Combat and EQ to boot, to nail those pesky steel types. I don't see this mon ever being allowed with Tera, it's defensive typing is the main thing that keeps it away from being broken, and getting stabs on it's great coverage would be insane.
It's a bit weak to common priority however, being weak to all of Grassy Glide, Aqua Jet and Bullet Punch, but it's offensive stats far outweigh that negative. I kinda wish it got rocks tho :P
Tera Potential: None (no shot this is allowed)
16 Points:
Gouging Fire:
Incredibly strong fire type, that seems to be built defensively?
Gouging Fire seems like a super interesting pokemon, with great bulk and a signature Protect that burns in Burning Bulwark.
Definitely seems like a mon that'll want to run HDB over Booster Energy more often than not.
This mon feels weird to rank because it seems obscenely broken in sun, protosynthesis + Sun boosted Flare Blitz sound like they'd go CRAZY, though typically draft tends to have ways to circumvent weather in some way or another, and you're not always going to be able to get the two. It's stats make it a decent physdef wall? No Will-o-Wisp kind of sucks, but it seems like it'd be an incredible Tera Captain with Dragon Dance setup options.
Tera Potential: 10/10 (Can become a potent physical wall in any tipying, as well as cover it's weaknesses on Dragon Dance sets.)
15 Points:
Archaludon:
This mon is gonna be crazy in draft, while duraludon was kind of a trashmon with a slight niche, Archaludon gets insane stats coupled with a fantastic defensive typing, only weak to fighting and ground. The two main sets that are probably going to be popular are ID+Body Press with stealth rock, and probably some filler special move. Power Herb sets also seem like they could be strong, Electro Shot is great coverage to complement steel and dragon stabs and it also still has access to Meteor Beam, this also seems like it could be a great fit for rain teams, bypassing the need for the herb (for Electro Shot).
The mon's got rocks, which you always love to see on a steel type.
Tera Potential: 8/10 (Tera stacks super well with Stamina + IDBP, definitely seems like it could get out of hand with a defensive tera of their choice)
14 Points:
Hydrapple:
Super super interesting mon, while it speed sucks it gets the incredibly coveted Regenerator ability, along with a great 120 SpA to pair with increidble defensive stats. While it's a bit frailer on the SpDef side, it's movepool definitely makes up for it. It gets access to Nasty Plot as well as Draco Meteor and Leaf Storm, with Earth Power and Hydro Pump as great coverage. We're still a bit in the dark as to how Fickle Beam functions, but it seems like it'll be more of a memey option. It unfortunately doesn't get much utility outside of being able to Recover and phaze with Dragon Tail, but it seems really fun.
I really wish it had a way to pivot :(
Tera Potential: 6/10 (Changing typings on a regen mon is always good, gives it extra coverage with NP + Tera Blast as well, can definitely be potent.)
Raging Bolt:
Electric Dragon is a very strong typing, and this Pokemon's a hell of a lot better than Dracozolt. It unfortunately seems like it'll be a bit cookie cutter in what kinds of sets it'll bring, mainly CM or Specs, not that it'll be bad though, it has Volt Switch, Draco Meteor, a great new move in Thunderclap, can even run Solar Beam if it has sun support. It really just looks like a mon that wish it had some form of recovery, if it did it'd be miles better in draft.
Tera Potential: 5/10 (Not having any recovery makes it kind of tough to use as a captain imo, choosing a type is a bit clunky and will only really save you from being bodied by grounds. There are better options out there)
11 Points:
Terapagos (TERA BANNED):
Very weird mon to place, normal types tend to not be that great unless they've got a lot going for them, and this was somewhere along those lines. Tera Shell is a very interesting ability, that I feel gives it the edge over Snorlax in the 10 pointer category, while it also has a great support moveset, stuff like Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock and Calm Mind. Tera Starstorm seems like it could have some applications on CM sets? Maybe in combination with it's incredibly vast movepool. It however really struggles because especially with it's ability, it would greatly appreciate having reliable recovery.
Tera Potential: None (Terapagos-Stellar seems busted
)
10 Points:
Iron Crown:
Very... underwhelming, it's pretty much just a worse Cobalion and has many issues with coverage. Steel/Psychic just ain't it offensively and it has to resort to Focus Blast as it's only other good Special Coverage Option. I mean, you've got volt switch I guess, but the mon itself just isn't doing a ton outside of CM sets, maybe with agility. Specs Steel Beam could be a thing ig...
Being a steel type without rocks is also just so baaaaaad, and another way that it's a downgrade over standard cobalion.
Tera Potential: 4/10 (Barely worth the value, can help it sweep on CM sets as well as giving it another coverage option, but the mon itself just lacks so much.)
8 Points:
Pecharunt:
While not legally obtainable yet, this mon just seems... bad. The idea of it's poison mechanic and signature move are cool and all, until the opponent switches in a poison or steel type... and then you're just sad. Won't deny it's an incredible physical wall, but it just seems tough to make work. Nasty Plot is interesting on it, but it's not incredibly strong offensively, and will take a bit to get started unless it dumps into SpA, which makes it very frail on the SpDef side.
Tera Potential: 2/10 (Don't)
Iron Boulder (TERA BANNED):
Omg, another crazy booster energy sweeper?
Being the new 2nd fastest pokemon in the game on switchin is big, while Rock/Psychic might look like pretty bad offensive stabs together, it also has access to Close Combat and EQ to boot, to nail those pesky steel types. I don't see this mon ever being allowed with Tera, it's defensive typing is the main thing that keeps it away from being broken, and getting stabs on it's great coverage would be insane.
It's a bit weak to common priority however, being weak to all of Grassy Glide, Aqua Jet and Bullet Punch, but it's offensive stats far outweigh that negative. I kinda wish it got rocks tho :P
Tera Potential: None (no shot this is allowed)
16 Points:
Gouging Fire:
Incredibly strong fire type, that seems to be built defensively?
Gouging Fire seems like a super interesting pokemon, with great bulk and a signature Protect that burns in Burning Bulwark.
Definitely seems like a mon that'll want to run HDB over Booster Energy more often than not.
This mon feels weird to rank because it seems obscenely broken in sun, protosynthesis + Sun boosted Flare Blitz sound like they'd go CRAZY, though typically draft tends to have ways to circumvent weather in some way or another, and you're not always going to be able to get the two. It's stats make it a decent physdef wall? No Will-o-Wisp kind of sucks, but it seems like it'd be an incredible Tera Captain with Dragon Dance setup options.
Tera Potential: 10/10 (Can become a potent physical wall in any tipying, as well as cover it's weaknesses on Dragon Dance sets.)
15 Points:
Archaludon:
This mon is gonna be crazy in draft, while duraludon was kind of a trashmon with a slight niche, Archaludon gets insane stats coupled with a fantastic defensive typing, only weak to fighting and ground. The two main sets that are probably going to be popular are ID+Body Press with stealth rock, and probably some filler special move. Power Herb sets also seem like they could be strong, Electro Shot is great coverage to complement steel and dragon stabs and it also still has access to Meteor Beam, this also seems like it could be a great fit for rain teams, bypassing the need for the herb (for Electro Shot).
The mon's got rocks, which you always love to see on a steel type.
Tera Potential: 8/10 (Tera stacks super well with Stamina + IDBP, definitely seems like it could get out of hand with a defensive tera of their choice)
14 Points:
Hydrapple:
Super super interesting mon, while it speed sucks it gets the incredibly coveted Regenerator ability, along with a great 120 SpA to pair with increidble defensive stats. While it's a bit frailer on the SpDef side, it's movepool definitely makes up for it. It gets access to Nasty Plot as well as Draco Meteor and Leaf Storm, with Earth Power and Hydro Pump as great coverage. We're still a bit in the dark as to how Fickle Beam functions, but it seems like it'll be more of a memey option. It unfortunately doesn't get much utility outside of being able to Recover and phaze with Dragon Tail, but it seems really fun.
I really wish it had a way to pivot :(
Tera Potential: 6/10 (Changing typings on a regen mon is always good, gives it extra coverage with NP + Tera Blast as well, can definitely be potent.)
Raging Bolt:
Electric Dragon is a very strong typing, and this Pokemon's a hell of a lot better than Dracozolt. It unfortunately seems like it'll be a bit cookie cutter in what kinds of sets it'll bring, mainly CM or Specs, not that it'll be bad though, it has Volt Switch, Draco Meteor, a great new move in Thunderclap, can even run Solar Beam if it has sun support. It really just looks like a mon that wish it had some form of recovery, if it did it'd be miles better in draft.
Tera Potential: 5/10 (Not having any recovery makes it kind of tough to use as a captain imo, choosing a type is a bit clunky and will only really save you from being bodied by grounds. There are better options out there)
11 Points:
Terapagos (TERA BANNED):
Very weird mon to place, normal types tend to not be that great unless they've got a lot going for them, and this was somewhere along those lines. Tera Shell is a very interesting ability, that I feel gives it the edge over Snorlax in the 10 pointer category, while it also has a great support moveset, stuff like Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock and Calm Mind. Tera Starstorm seems like it could have some applications on CM sets? Maybe in combination with it's incredibly vast movepool. It however really struggles because especially with it's ability, it would greatly appreciate having reliable recovery.
Tera Potential: None (Terapagos-Stellar seems busted
)10 Points:
Iron Crown:
Very... underwhelming, it's pretty much just a worse Cobalion and has many issues with coverage. Steel/Psychic just ain't it offensively and it has to resort to Focus Blast as it's only other good Special Coverage Option. I mean, you've got volt switch I guess, but the mon itself just isn't doing a ton outside of CM sets, maybe with agility. Specs Steel Beam could be a thing ig...
Being a steel type without rocks is also just so baaaaaad, and another way that it's a downgrade over standard cobalion.
Tera Potential: 4/10 (Barely worth the value, can help it sweep on CM sets as well as giving it another coverage option, but the mon itself just lacks so much.)
8 Points:
Pecharunt:
While not legally obtainable yet, this mon just seems... bad. The idea of it's poison mechanic and signature move are cool and all, until the opponent switches in a poison or steel type... and then you're just sad. Won't deny it's an incredible physical wall, but it just seems tough to make work. Nasty Plot is interesting on it, but it's not incredibly strong offensively, and will take a bit to get started unless it dumps into SpA, which makes it very frail on the SpDef side.
Tera Potential: 2/10 (Don't)
I finally had ppl respond on X(Twitter) and Pk Showdown on where to go to join a Draft League, I am excited to be a part of this community, I know it will take time and prep and mocks and multiple leagues of practice to get started. I just have no one I know personally that will be a part of Draft
I hope you're enjoying the format! Let us know if we can help you in any way. Plenty of resources on the forms!
Hi, i've recently entered the winter seasonal and as an OU player (although draft doesnt have tier knowledge transfered over, it's relevant, i will explain in due time) certain tiering choices & the reasoning behind them completely boggle my mind, so i would like to complain about a particular one here
People have told me i come off as aggressive sometimes so i'm sorry if it's the case i don't mean any harm toward the people who came together and made the decisions. I'm just hoping that (if deemed correct) you can change your rulesets for the better, these are new and unexplored additions so i suppose it's not unheard of to make not very informed or coherent decisions regarding their tiering
I'm also not entirely familiar with draft leagues so do tell me if i make any misconceptions please
Anyone who follows current OU knows this thing is a complete nightmare to beat. Extremely high SpA, Protosynthesis, good bulk, Calm Mind and most importantly Thunderclap make it into an extremely potent revenge killer and setup sweeper. At first, just using a ground type like Landorus-T
or Great Tusk 
might sound like it's enough to beat it, but then it Teras and now your offensive check is dead and you'll scramble to deal with it, probably with either your own defensive Tera (probably Ground) or the forfeit button. Upon losing said Ground type and/or Ground Tera user, when Raging Bolt comes in you have your physical attackers play mindgames with Thunderclap, because it will set up on special attackers with Calm Mind, and essentially start playing rock-paper-scizors.
In a draft environment, although you'll be able to prepare knowing it's coming beforehand accordingly, your control over what you use is severely limited, both in offensive and defensive counterplay. Unless you use the otherwise not great Tera Ground specifically for it, you'll be at risk of having to sacrifice your Ground-Type in order to beat it because this thing can tera.
This isn't necessarily "bad", however. Even if unbalanced, draft is, by nature not very balanced in my understanding, and that's part of the fun. Of course, the people in charge should aim to make their pools balanced, because it's more fun that way, because even if everyone has a wild card their chances at winning should not be defined by who picks what first. And for the most part i agree with the restrictions & costs.
In fact, i agree where you say in this post the following to justify Tera banning Kingambit:
These are two sides of the same coin. Their roles and counterplay are very simmilar. If you restrict one because Tera takes it to stupifying levels, why not the other? No offense or aggressiveness intended, but if i had to guess, it'd be inexperience with Bolt or bias towards Kingambit, because your justification to not restrict Tera on Raging Bolt was as follows on the same post:
Let me go around your arguments and statements one by one.
In OU, of course, because in a draft setting you will be looking at a much wider array of mons that can help check these otherwise excessively oppressive threats. However, much like Kingambit can be 5 different Tera types at once to ignore it's checks, get a free SD, and then go nuts, so can Raging Bolt.
Also, you're forgetting that while Kingambit needs to choose between bulk and Speed EVs to properly set up or kill some things outright, which we can all agree is not a problem for it with Tera, you claim Raging Bolt is "slow" when it's a whole 25 base points faster. Maybe slow in the context of gen 9 where there's plenty of things above 110 going around, but all of those things will either 1) be unable to live the +1 proto SpA Thunderclap, or 2) they live it but they can't revenge kill it immediately, likely forcing another sac. There's very few exceptions to this rule, but those exceptions can also be entirely removed by using Tera on Bolt.
I'm not sure if this is one of those appeals of draft, but simply put, most fully evolved encore users that outspeed Bolt are either shitmons or just all around really bad. The only outliers in immediate sight would be Ogerpon, Iron Valiant, Maushold and Infernape. This "tech" is not "easily bringable" in a lot of ways, including moveslots. Will you bring a noticeably subpar mon for a chance at checking Raging Bolt? Will you hold it the entire game to risk not ruining your one counterplay that isn't a Ground Tera who you might need to check something else? Will it even succeed at all, because the Bolt user knows your roster and their capacity and will probably do minimal research and play accordingly if they're trying to win?
Regarding it's cost...
Tera allowed on this mon costing only 15 points is kind of insane to me.
In the 18, 17, and some in the 16 points tier we can find the undeniably broken stuff (urshifu, chi yu, palafin, ape, sneasler) or the highly desirables like Valiant or Tusk because of the sheer utility and versatility they provide to any team. Most of these are tera banned for balance reasons.
Yet, raging bolt, who is also extremely splashable, can fit a variety of sets (although booster is almost always the best one) has tera available, is only 15 points. Why????????????? You even put Gouging Fire and Kyurem, the deemed problematic mons who the Uber additions don't really help much against in 16 and tera banned it. How is rbolt so cheap????
Basically, everything you can say about Kingambit can also be said about Raging Bolt. So why are they not on equal treatment? If one needs to have tera axed to be fair to play against, so needs the other. Please do apply it for next tours :)
Well, tiering is very subjective, but that's my 2 cents
I don't really think every player will be able to properly prepare for it in a way that's remotely fair. The counterplay is sparse and either predictable or resource expensive; using a not so great Tera type with likely no other applications on something just for a very specific thing your team otherwise statisticslly is very likely to crumble against is not something i like
I had an hour break writing this and had like 2 sections in mind so i forgot. Might edit or add another post
People have told me i come off as aggressive sometimes so i'm sorry if it's the case i don't mean any harm toward the people who came together and made the decisions. I'm just hoping that (if deemed correct) you can change your rulesets for the better, these are new and unexplored additions so i suppose it's not unheard of to make not very informed or coherent decisions regarding their tiering
I'm also not entirely familiar with draft leagues so do tell me if i make any misconceptions please
Anyone who follows current OU knows this thing is a complete nightmare to beat. Extremely high SpA, Protosynthesis, good bulk, Calm Mind and most importantly Thunderclap make it into an extremely potent revenge killer and setup sweeper. At first, just using a ground type like Landorus-T
or Great Tusk might sound like it's enough to beat it, but then it Teras and now your offensive check is dead and you'll scramble to deal with it, probably with either your own defensive Tera (probably Ground) or the forfeit button. Upon losing said Ground type and/or Ground Tera user, when Raging Bolt comes in you have your physical attackers play mindgames with Thunderclap, because it will set up on special attackers with Calm Mind, and essentially start playing rock-paper-scizors.In a draft environment, although you'll be able to prepare knowing it's coming beforehand accordingly, your control over what you use is severely limited, both in offensive and defensive counterplay. Unless you use the otherwise not great Tera Ground specifically for it, you'll be at risk of having to sacrifice your Ground-Type in order to beat it because this thing can tera.
This isn't necessarily "bad", however. Even if unbalanced, draft is, by nature not very balanced in my understanding, and that's part of the fun. Of course, the people in charge should aim to make their pools balanced, because it's more fun that way, because even if everyone has a wild card their chances at winning should not be defined by who picks what first. And for the most part i agree with the restrictions & costs.
In fact, i agree where you say in this post the following to justify Tera banning Kingambit:
Well. Where have i heard of another mon who does exactly that, except it doesn't actually need to wait for the endgame to maximize it's firepower and annihilate your team?Tjb145 said:This thing is quite stupid with Tera and wins too many endgames by itself, good riddance
These are two sides of the same coin. Their roles and counterplay are very simmilar. If you restrict one because Tera takes it to stupifying levels, why not the other? No offense or aggressiveness intended, but if i had to guess, it'd be inexperience with Bolt or bias towards Kingambit, because your justification to not restrict Tera on Raging Bolt was as follows on the same post:
Tjb145 said:
Let me go around your arguments and statements one by one.
This is undeniably true. One of the ways to stop Kingambit's Sucker Punch from going off is priority itself, namely in DLC 1 you would play mindgames & try to revenge kill it once weakened with Water Shuriken Greninja (because Hydro Pump just won't threaten it if near full), non-Band Rillaboom and the not so common Barraskewda (not sure if i missed any). This can also apply to Raging Bolt, but again, this is draft. Not everything has usable priority moves, and even then you'd be subject to mindgames.
Just like Kingambit.
Much like Kingambit, this will not come into play often, i argue even less since it has less things it actively wants to outspeed: while Gambit would love to outspeed Tusk, Meowscarada, Weavile, Enamorus, etc, Raging Bolt only really needs to outspeed Archaludon, Kingambit itself and the not so plenty Grounds, only limited to Excadrill, Tusk, Landorus and maybe Treads.
In OU, of course, because in a draft setting you will be looking at a much wider array of mons that can help check these otherwise excessively oppressive threats. However, much like Kingambit can be 5 different Tera types at once to ignore it's checks, get a free SD, and then go nuts, so can Raging Bolt.
Also, you're forgetting that while Kingambit needs to choose between bulk and Speed EVs to properly set up or kill some things outright, which we can all agree is not a problem for it with Tera, you claim Raging Bolt is "slow" when it's a whole 25 base points faster. Maybe slow in the context of gen 9 where there's plenty of things above 110 going around, but all of those things will either 1) be unable to live the +1 proto SpA Thunderclap, or 2) they live it but they can't revenge kill it immediately, likely forcing another sac. There's very few exceptions to this rule, but those exceptions can also be entirely removed by using Tera on Bolt.
In my search, i've only found one (1) mon that can come in guaranteedly on Raging Bolt and Encore it; Whimsicott. Nothing else will. If you want your encore user to come in and actually do it's job (assuming the Bolt user doesn't give you the counterplay on a platter, because it has other moves), it will need to come in after a sacrifice or a pivot. This is extremely hard to do. Much like Kingambit, it's immense raw power will quickly start picking up OHKOs. It's not something you can calmly play around, there is only very aggressive play & prediction with your resists/immunities. But, even if there ARE encore users on your team, who are they?
I'm not sure if this is one of those appeals of draft, but simply put, most fully evolved encore users that outspeed Bolt are either shitmons or just all around really bad. The only outliers in immediate sight would be Ogerpon, Iron Valiant, Maushold and Infernape. This "tech" is not "easily bringable" in a lot of ways, including moveslots. Will you bring a noticeably subpar mon for a chance at checking Raging Bolt? Will you hold it the entire game to risk not ruining your one counterplay that isn't a Ground Tera who you might need to check something else? Will it even succeed at all, because the Bolt user knows your roster and their capacity and will probably do minimal research and play accordingly if they're trying to win?
Regarding it's cost...
Tera allowed on this mon costing only 15 points is kind of insane to me.
In the 18, 17, and some in the 16 points tier we can find the undeniably broken stuff (urshifu, chi yu, palafin, ape, sneasler) or the highly desirables like Valiant or Tusk because of the sheer utility and versatility they provide to any team. Most of these are tera banned for balance reasons.
Yet, raging bolt, who is also extremely splashable, can fit a variety of sets (although booster is almost always the best one) has tera available, is only 15 points. Why????????????? You even put Gouging Fire and Kyurem, the deemed problematic mons who the Uber additions don't really help much against in 16 and tera banned it. How is rbolt so cheap????
Basically, everything you can say about Kingambit can also be said about Raging Bolt. So why are they not on equal treatment? If one needs to have tera axed to be fair to play against, so needs the other. Please do apply it for next tours :)
Well, tiering is very subjective, but that's my 2 cents
I don't really think every player will be able to properly prepare for it in a way that's remotely fair. The counterplay is sparse and either predictable or resource expensive; using a not so great Tera type with likely no other applications on something just for a very specific thing your team otherwise statisticslly is very likely to crumble against is not something i like
I had an hour break writing this and had like 2 sections in mind so i forgot. Might edit or add another post
Last edited:
Hi, i've recently entered the winter seasonal and as an OU player (although draft doesnt have tier knowledge transfered over, it's relevant, i will explain in due time) certain tiering choices & the reasoning behind them completely boggle my mind, so i would like to complain about a particular one here
People have told me i come off as aggressive sometimes so i'm sorry if it's the case i don't mean any harm toward the people who came together and made the decisions. I'm just hoping that (if deemed correct) you can change your rulesets for the better, these are new and unexplored additions so i suppose it's not unheard of to make not very informed or coherent decisions regarding their tiering
I'm also not entirely familiar with draft leagues so do tell me if i make any misconceptions please
Anyone who follows current OU knows this thing is a complete nightmare to beat. Extremely high SpA, Protosynthesis, good bulk, Calm Mind and most importantly Thunderclap make it into an extremely potent revenge killer and setup sweeper. At first, just using a ground type like Landorus-T
In a draft environment, although you'll be able to prepare knowing it's coming beforehand accordingly, your control over what you use is severely limited, both in offensive and defensive counterplay. Unless you use the otherwise not great Tera Ground specifically for it, you'll be at risk of having to sacrifice your Ground-Type in order to beat it because this thing can tera.
This isn't necessarily "bad", however. Even if unbalanced, draft is, by nature not very balanced in my understanding, and that's part of the fun. Of course, the people in charge should aim to make their pools balanced, because it's more fun that way, because even if everyone has a wild card their chances at winning should not be defined by who picks what first. And for the most part i agree with the restrictions & costs.
In fact, i agree where you say in this post the following to justify Tera banning Kingambit:
Well. Where have i heard of another mon who does exactly that, except it doesn't actually need to wait for the endgame to maximize it's firepower and annihilate your team?
These are two sides of the same coin. Their roles and counterplay are very simmilar. If you restrict one because Tera takes it to stupifying levels, why not the other? No offense or aggressiveness intended, but if i had to guess, it'd be inexperience with Bolt or bias towards Kingambit, because your justification to not restrict Tera on Raging Bolt was as follows on the same post:
Let me go around your arguments and statements one by one.
This is undeniably true. One of the ways to stop Kingambit's Sucker Punch from going off is priority itself, namely in DLC 1 you would play mindgames & try to revenge kill it once weakened with Water Shuriken Greninja (because Hydro Pump just won't threaten it if near full), non-Band Rillaboom and the not so common Barraskewda (not sure if i missed any). This can also apply to Raging Bolt, but again, this is draft. Not everything has usable priority moves, and even then you'd be subject to mindgames.
Just like Kingambit.
Much like Kingambit, this will not come into play often, i argue even less since it has less things it actively wants to outspeed: while Gambit would love to outspeed Tusk, Meowscarada, Weavile, Enamorus, etc, Raging Bolt only really needs to outspeed Archaludon, Kingambit itself and the not so plenty Grounds, only limited to Excadrill, Tusk, Landorus and maybe Treads.
In OU, of course, because in a draft setting you will be looking at a much wider array of mons that can help check these otherwise excessively oppressive threats. However, much like Kingambit can be 5 different Tera types at once to ignore it's checks, get a free SD, and then go nuts, so can Raging Bolt.
Also, you're forgetting that while Kingambit needs to choose between bulk and Speed EVs to properly set up or kill some things outright, which we can all agree is not a problem for it with Tera, you claim Raging Bolt is "slow" when it's a whole 25 base points faster. Maybe slow in the context of gen 9 where there's plenty of things above 110 going around, but all of those things will either 1) be unable to live the +1 proto SpA Thunderclap, or 2) they live it but they can't revenge kill it immediately, likely forcing another sac. There's very few exceptions to this rule, but those exceptions can also be entirely removed by using Tera on Bolt.
In my search, i've only found one (1) mon that can come in guaranteedly on Raging Bolt and Encore it; Whimsicott. Nothing else will. If you want your encore user to come in and actually do it's job (assuming the Bolt user doesn't give you the counterplay on a platter, because it has other moves), it will need to come in after a sacrifice or a pivot. This is extremely hard to do. Much like Kingambit, it's immense raw power will quickly start picking up OHKOs. It's not something you can calmly play around, there is only very aggressive play & prediction with your resists/immunities. But, even if there ARE encore users on your team, who are they?
I'm not sure if this is one of those appeals of draft, but simply put, most fully evolved encore users that outspeed Bolt are either shitmons or just all around really bad. The only outliers in immediate sight would be Ogerpon, Iron Valiant, Maushold and Infernape. This "tech" is not "easily bringable" in a lot of ways, including moveslots. Will you bring a noticeably subpar mon for a chance at checking Raging Bolt? Will you hold it the entire game to risk not ruining your one counterplay that isn't a Ground Tera who you might need to check something else? Will it even succeed at all, because the Bolt user knows your roster and their capacity and will probably do minimal research and play accordingly if they're trying to win?
Regarding it's cost...
Tera allowed on this mon costing only 15 points is kind of insane to me.
In the 18, 17, and some in the 16 points tier we can find the undeniably broken stuff (urshifu, chi yu, palafin, ape, sneasler) or the highly desirables like Valiant or Tusk because of the sheer utility and versatility they provide to any team. Most of these are tera banned for balance reasons.
Yet, raging bolt, who is also extremely splashable, can fit a variety of sets (although booster is almost always the best one) has tera available, is only 15 points. Why????????????? You even put Gouging Fire and Kyurem, the deemed problematic mons who the Uber additions don't really help much against in 16 and tera banned it. How is rbolt so cheap????
Basically, everything you can say about Kingambit can also be said about Raging Bolt. So why are they not on equal treatment? If one needs to have tera axed to be fair to play against, so needs the other. Please do apply it for next tours :)
Well, tiering is very subjective, but that's my 2 cents
I don't really think every player will be able to properly prepare for it in a way that's remotely fair. The counterplay is sparse and either predictable or resource expensive; using a not so great Tera type with likely no other applications on something just for a very specific thing your team otherwise statisticslly is very likely to crumble against is not something i like
I had an hour break writing this and had like 2 sections in mind so i forgot. Might edit or add another post
Hi Chlora, I would first of all like to say thank you for putting this post together. This was clearly a subject you felt passionate about and you have expressed your opinion in detail and I commend you for that. I'm going to break this response down into two sections and address them independently.
1) The Kingambit comparison, and why it doesn't quite work in draft
2) The cost reasoning
Also just as a pre-requisite this is entirely my opinion on the matter and it was not just me involved in tiering, if interested in hearing some of the other members thoughts you can see the list of the SV tiering committee here, who might approach the subject matter differently than I do.
The direct comparison made between Raging Bolt and Kingambit is a sensible one at face value, as I said in the Seasonal tiering post priority is critical and the two mons in discussion have some of the best of the priority options, that can lead to coin flips capable of feeling unfair. There are a few key discussion aspects I would like to go into thought that to me differentiates the two of them.
One of the main reasons that Kingambit ends up as a potent win condition in a large quantity of endgames is due to Supreme Overlord, which allows for it to reach insane power level potential without the requirement for setup. Typically, this leads to endgame situations where players often end up in a 50/50 guessing game that is related to the item that Kingambit is holding that ultimately does not end up in their favour. There are countless occasions where an opponent thinks that have stopped the kingambit endgame sweep, yet it still happens anyways. Examples for this include them attacking on an obvious taunt, Lum Berry removing any Will-O Wisp trying to stop the sweep or a well hidden mental herb to get around a fast encore more that in theory should stop Gambit in its tracks (it does also work for the Taunt case but I end up seeing this interaction a lot less). This item related mindgame in my opinions is not quite the same when it comes to Raging Bolt aside from the Mental Herb case, this is due to the less lack of immediate power without that Calm Mind to deal with a potential Taunt mon. That immediate power for Raging Bolt comes from Protosynthesis, an ability that has more drawbacks due to the ways it activated. Seeing a Booster Energy activate on Raging Bolt means that it is more susceptible to Taunt and Encore, two moves that are incredibly prevalent in draft due to their increased capability to stop an opponents plan in their tracks or to enable your own. Raging Bolt under Sun comes with its own trials and tribulations, but I also think people will run particular techs for Sun teams in that instance. This greater versatility in item selection whilst maintaining power in endgame situations to me is what makes Gambit the King (pun not intended I swear) of what it does and why Raging Bolt isn't quite the same.
When it comes to the raw attacking potential of both mons I also think there is some key differences in draft. One of these is the use/capability of fitting Tera Blast on a set. In the current draft meta that utilises Tera preview, a very common Kingambit type that was prevalent is Tera Fairy. These sets typically would end up running Tera Blast over one of its initial stabs (that aren't Sucker Punch, will come to this later) depending on the matchup in question. This typically was able to be used with little to no drawback. Comparing this to Raging Bolt, the mon itself does not quite have the same luxury in my opinion., and that's solely down to its initial stab. Kowtow Cleave/Iron Heads are better move to be clicking compared to Thunderbolt/Dragon Pulse in the instances where neither are clicking their priority move. I also explicitly say Dragon Pulse here for a reason because Draco Meteor is a liability for the Calm Mind sets due to reducing its own damage output, something that allows for it to be easier dealt with, with a reduction in the amount of resources required to beat this potential threat.
The point raised on Terastalisation seemed to omit our typical policy of the mechanic, that being Tera Preview. Raging Bolt is going to utilise Tera in a slightly more defensive manner compared to Kingambit to avoid particular situations that will typically involve wanting to avoid/mitigate the damage taken from key hits that will typically be coming from Ground types. In preparation and in play, this will be known by the opponent and will be planned for accordingly, with this being either plausible to scout and/or bait out or to be in a failsafe position both in the instance of no tera or following tera. I personally believe it is easier to do this with Raging Bolt compared to Kingambit for two main reasons
One of the main reasons that Kingambit ends up as a potent win condition in a large quantity of endgames is due to Supreme Overlord, which allows for it to reach insane power level potential without the requirement for setup. Typically, this leads to endgame situations where players often end up in a 50/50 guessing game that is related to the item that Kingambit is holding that ultimately does not end up in their favour. There are countless occasions where an opponent thinks that have stopped the kingambit endgame sweep, yet it still happens anyways. Examples for this include them attacking on an obvious taunt, Lum Berry removing any Will-O Wisp trying to stop the sweep or a well hidden mental herb to get around a fast encore more that in theory should stop Gambit in its tracks (it does also work for the Taunt case but I end up seeing this interaction a lot less). This item related mindgame in my opinions is not quite the same when it comes to Raging Bolt aside from the Mental Herb case, this is due to the less lack of immediate power without that Calm Mind to deal with a potential Taunt mon. That immediate power for Raging Bolt comes from Protosynthesis, an ability that has more drawbacks due to the ways it activated. Seeing a Booster Energy activate on Raging Bolt means that it is more susceptible to Taunt and Encore, two moves that are incredibly prevalent in draft due to their increased capability to stop an opponents plan in their tracks or to enable your own. Raging Bolt under Sun comes with its own trials and tribulations, but I also think people will run particular techs for Sun teams in that instance. This greater versatility in item selection whilst maintaining power in endgame situations to me is what makes Gambit the King (pun not intended I swear) of what it does and why Raging Bolt isn't quite the same.
When it comes to the raw attacking potential of both mons I also think there is some key differences in draft. One of these is the use/capability of fitting Tera Blast on a set. In the current draft meta that utilises Tera preview, a very common Kingambit type that was prevalent is Tera Fairy. These sets typically would end up running Tera Blast over one of its initial stabs (that aren't Sucker Punch, will come to this later) depending on the matchup in question. This typically was able to be used with little to no drawback. Comparing this to Raging Bolt, the mon itself does not quite have the same luxury in my opinion., and that's solely down to its initial stab. Kowtow Cleave/Iron Heads are better move to be clicking compared to Thunderbolt/Dragon Pulse in the instances where neither are clicking their priority move. I also explicitly say Dragon Pulse here for a reason because Draco Meteor is a liability for the Calm Mind sets due to reducing its own damage output, something that allows for it to be easier dealt with, with a reduction in the amount of resources required to beat this potential threat.
The point raised on Terastalisation seemed to omit our typical policy of the mechanic, that being Tera Preview. Raging Bolt is going to utilise Tera in a slightly more defensive manner compared to Kingambit to avoid particular situations that will typically involve wanting to avoid/mitigate the damage taken from key hits that will typically be coming from Ground types. In preparation and in play, this will be known by the opponent and will be planned for accordingly, with this being either plausible to scout and/or bait out or to be in a failsafe position both in the instance of no tera or following tera. I personally believe it is easier to do this with Raging Bolt compared to Kingambit for two main reasons
- The existence of Assault Vest being of major detriment to Raging Bolt and is less preppable around compared to the cases where Kingambit has to deal with attributes of the game such as Will-O-Wisp
- The particular hit in question that Raging Bolt is trying to mitigate is a lot more blatent when prepping for a matchup compared to the methods of approach for Kingambit (this may change over time based on how the meta adapts/how people choose to use the Pokémon but I am just going off my gut instinct as of right now).
This point I'm definitely less strong about and I do think it might end up being slightly too low, but as I mentioned in the seasonal tiering thread that there are going to be decisions made in a new meta that are possibly mistakes but you have to be ok with that when designing tier lists. Without further ado, here is a brief reason why.
- I do not think Raging Bolt is off the same capability of the Pokémon that are currently located in the 18 and 17 point tier, this is because of their known versatility or having tremendous upside in what they offer to a team as a r1/r2 pick. There is a possibility of debate for a couple cases such as Enamorus or Serperior (one of which I address in the thread and slightly more on Discord), but I do no believe that this mon belongs in this category at this moment in time.
- The 16 point tier is definitely a slightly larger debate, especially in regards to it being placed below Gouging Fire and Iron Boulder that we decided to Tera Ban. A large reason for this is related to the importance of speed and versatility. Overall, we believed that Gouging Fire was going to be a more versatile mon than its prehistoric trio counterpart whilst also having access to better coverage and better setup potential (due to the capability of raising its speed). The comparison made during tiering was to Mega Charizard X in previous gens, a mon that has had immense success for years. This is for more than just the typing, dynamic EV'ing capabilities, raw strength, scary setup threat but also have to be aware of bulkier sets and the sets that will also just hit you. All of this in common and Gouging Fire still has access to an item, that lead to our decision as placing it above Raging Bolt. As for Iron Boulder, that one is predominantly down to the elite speed tier it can provide which can be crucial for teams to possess. It does have very strong coverage potential and can be clutch when attempting to revenge setup sweepers due to the speed tiers it can reach, especially with a Booster Energy speed boost. This was something we felt we needed to consider heavily during tiering and lead to its particular placement. At the end of the day, I believe that these two Pokémon have access to a wider plethora of tools compared to Raging Bolt, a Pokémon that at times can end up being rather 1 or two dimensional (you did not mention raw breaker sets as part of this discussion and I honestly believe that these sets might be better in draft long term as of right now) and my mentality is that versatility>capability of doing one thing really well when it comes to mons that have not been tested. Other people might view this differently and that is completely fine, but that is my mentality.
At the end of the day, the DLC 2 draft meta is extremely young and is currently in an experimental phase. Everyone is going to have their opinions on these things and I once again thank you for expressing yours in this way. I fully understand where this sentiment is coming from but personally those are not concerns I personally have at this particular moment in time. I have gotten many a thing wrong in the past early in a metagame so my opinion on Raging Bolt may change overtime. What will this mons place be in the future? I guess we just have to keep playing the game to find out.
Hope this post helped gain an insight into my thought process. If you have any further questions/comments please let me know either on this thread or in my DM's on Smogon or Discord.
Figured a small PSA before the battles begin regarding how Ubers specific interactions/abilities work is worthwhile:
Arceus: Judgment follows the type of your held Plate. IT IS NEVER A NORMAL TYPE MOVE IN THIS FORMAT
Calyrex-Ice: Berries do not work against Calyrex, do not try live a Glacial Lance with a Yache berry. It will fail.
Marshadow: Spectral Thief does bypass Substitute, it will reset your stats to +0, even if Marshadow doesn't steal all of them (e.g. a +6 Atk Marshadow cannot get any more Atk boosts but it does remove your Atk buffs nonetheless).
Yveltal: Very minor but Oblivion Wing heals 75% of all dealt damage, not 50% like most draining moves do.
Primal Kyogre: Primordial Sea does not set Rain. It sets Heavy Rain. This does interact as per usual with Swift Swim, Rain Dish etc. but it does not remain active on the field once Primal Kyogre switches out. Furthermore, you cannot replace it with any other weather conditions while Primal Kyogre is on the field. Fire-type attacking moves will also fail against Primal Kyogre.
Zacian: Intrepid Sword will only raise its Atk on the first time that it hits the field. It does nothing for all subsequent switch ins.
Lunala: Nothing can bypass Shadow Shield, including Teravolt and Turboblaze.
Mega Salamence: Not exactly unique to Ubers but who remembers Mega Pinsir, Aerilate turns all of Mega Salamence's Normal-type attacks into Flying-type ones. They also get a 1.2x buff to their base power on top of this.
Rayquaza: Air Lock is effectively a fancy Cloud Nine clone. Do not expect V-create to be boosted by Sun.
Deoxys-Attack: Less Ubers specific and moreso a forgotten mechanic again, if it's paired with Psychic Terrain, priority fails. Priority will fail against all targets but its most notable here.
Mega Lucario: Not a mechanics thing but do be aware that it is a very strong Special Attacker, and not just a physical wallbreaker. Close Combat does OHKO you, but so does a +2 Flash Cannon, or even worse, Steel Beam, so don't tunnel vision on it being physical every game.
Zygarde: Two interactions here, Power Construct activates when Zygarde drops below 50% HP. Before this, it must be in its 50% or 10% forme. Aura Break does offset Fairy/Dark Aura, nerfing Fairy/Dark type moves by 25% instead. While technically relevant, please don't run Zygarde-50% as a Yveltal check, Complete just does the job better.
Solgaleo: Much like Lunala's Shadow Shield, nothing can bypass Full Metal Body.
Zamazenta: Same as Zacian, Dauntless Shield will only activate once per game.
Genesect: It's always optimal to be Shiny. Non-Shiny Genesect cannot run Extreme Speed, nor Shift Gear. Don't give your opponent free information. Also remember that Download will activate based off of your lower defensive stat, it's nearly always worth making Arceus' Defense greater than or equal to its Special Defense so that you don't take a +1 U-turn. It is dynamic however so keep that in mind when setting up.
Mega Kangaskhan: It does have Seismic Toss, which deals 200 HP of damage to the opponent. Keep in mind that it does take 2 hits from Rough Skin/Rocky Helmet etc.
Arceus: Judgment follows the type of your held Plate. IT IS NEVER A NORMAL TYPE MOVE IN THIS FORMAT Calyrex-Ice: Berries do not work against Calyrex, do not try live a Glacial Lance with a Yache berry. It will fail. Marshadow: Spectral Thief does bypass Substitute, it will reset your stats to +0, even if Marshadow doesn't steal all of them (e.g. a +6 Atk Marshadow cannot get any more Atk boosts but it does remove your Atk buffs nonetheless). Yveltal: Very minor but Oblivion Wing heals 75% of all dealt damage, not 50% like most draining moves do. Primal Kyogre: Primordial Sea does not set Rain. It sets Heavy Rain. This does interact as per usual with Swift Swim, Rain Dish etc. but it does not remain active on the field once Primal Kyogre switches out. Furthermore, you cannot replace it with any other weather conditions while Primal Kyogre is on the field. Fire-type attacking moves will also fail against Primal Kyogre. Zacian: Intrepid Sword will only raise its Atk on the first time that it hits the field. It does nothing for all subsequent switch ins. Lunala: Nothing can bypass Shadow Shield, including Teravolt and Turboblaze. Mega Salamence: Not exactly unique to Ubers but who remembers Mega Pinsir, Aerilate turns all of Mega Salamence's Normal-type attacks into Flying-type ones. They also get a 1.2x buff to their base power on top of this. Rayquaza: Air Lock is effectively a fancy Cloud Nine clone. Do not expect V-create to be boosted by Sun. Deoxys-Attack: Less Ubers specific and moreso a forgotten mechanic again, if it's paired with Psychic Terrain, priority fails. Priority will fail against all targets but its most notable here. Mega Lucario: Not a mechanics thing but do be aware that it is a very strong Special Attacker, and not just a physical wallbreaker. Close Combat does OHKO you, but so does a +2 Flash Cannon, or even worse, Steel Beam, so don't tunnel vision on it being physical every game. Zygarde: Two interactions here, Power Construct activates when Zygarde drops below 50% HP. Before this, it must be in its 50% or 10% forme. Aura Break does offset Fairy/Dark Aura, nerfing Fairy/Dark type moves by 25% instead. While technically relevant, please don't run Zygarde-50% as a Yveltal check, Complete just does the job better. Solgaleo: Much like Lunala's Shadow Shield, nothing can bypass Full Metal Body. Zamazenta: Same as Zacian, Dauntless Shield will only activate once per game. Genesect: It's always optimal to be Shiny. Non-Shiny Genesect cannot run Extreme Speed, nor Shift Gear. Don't give your opponent free information. Also remember that Download will activate based off of your lower defensive stat, it's nearly always worth making Arceus' Defense greater than or equal to its Special Defense so that you don't take a +1 U-turn. It is dynamic however so keep that in mind when setting up. Mega Kangaskhan: It does have Seismic Toss, which deals 200 HP of damage to the opponent. Keep in mind that it does take 2 hits from Rough Skin/Rocky Helmet etc.
I'm leaning on this guide as I try to make my own ubers' league, as I have little Ubers knowledge. However, I'm doing tiers rather than points, which changes things a lot; each team would get only one mon from each of these two tiers. This is what I have right now, please let me know if you see anything heinous! Points of especial inquiry are Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Pheromosa, Dialga-Origin, Zacian, and Basculegion (thinking I'll complex Houndstone/Basculin down either way to make for only one Respects team, just seems more fun that way), all of which I'm thinking of dropping a tier lower.
Attachments
- Regular Zacian and the complex bans (besides geomancy) could be freed
- There's a pretty big gap in quality between the best U Tiers and the worst. I'd split that tier into two and give everyone three "ubers" to make teams less focused around a single broken uber
- Magearna seems underpriced
One of my favorite parts of draft is the part where you have 6-7 points left and you gotta find some use out of some REAL out of the ordinary guys for your last couple slots, so tell me, Smogon Forums users, what's your favorite budget picks you've ever made in draft? I've been finding a lot of value out of Dunsparce at the Winter Seasonal and I think he's just the greatest.
was in a tiers draft but grabbed Torterra in a natdex SWSH league a few years back in the lowest tier and he came 9/10 games on route to a season turnaround and finals trip. Love that guy
Hey, everyone!
I'm looking for some teambuilding advice for my draft league team. Bear in mind this was the first league for all of us after not playing Pokemon for a decade basically... So the teams are far from perfect!
Here's some basic context:
-We play in National Dex Ubers, but with restrictions
-Only one Uber per team, no Primal or Mega
-Must have minimum two Pokemon from OU, UU, and RU
-Must roster at least 10 Pokemon
We have two weeks left in the regular season, so two more opportunities to make moves (can make two moves per week)
Looking to round out my roster before playoffs! The top two teams are Team One and Team Three (I am Team Two), so looking to combat those in particular. Highlighted Pokemon are the only ones that can Tera.
Thanks so much in advance!
I'm looking for some teambuilding advice for my draft league team. Bear in mind this was the first league for all of us after not playing Pokemon for a decade basically... So the teams are far from perfect!
Here's some basic context:
-We play in National Dex Ubers, but with restrictions
-Only one Uber per team, no Primal or Mega
-Must have minimum two Pokemon from OU, UU, and RU
-Must roster at least 10 Pokemon
We have two weeks left in the regular season, so two more opportunities to make moves (can make two moves per week)
Looking to round out my roster before playoffs! The top two teams are Team One and Team Three (I am Team Two), so looking to combat those in particular. Highlighted Pokemon are the only ones that can Tera.
Thanks so much in advance!
Attachments
Just got knocked out of NatDex Ubers Draft, I did want to make into top 16 and potentially higher but what can you do you know? (Buff Focus Blast's accuracy pls) Wp to my opponent though, Mirror Herb Eternatus for Zamazenta was smth I was not expecting. Anyway I want to talk about my draft, because I did like using it a bit.
(Nickname: Silvally-Normal/God Arcues) - Pretty solid support pokemon all things considered. Had good damage, good bulk and good support options. Came every game. Nickname was just silly stuff because Arceus/Silvally relationship.
/
(Nickname: Palk97) - Nyx liked to clown my Palkia pick when I had an open Kyurem-White but Palkia and I, we have a bond that transcends alleged "inferior viability". 2011 TTK would not appreciate me not using Palkia and in SS Ubers, I made it my goal to get Palkia, which I succeeded at. It has lower spatk than Kyurem-W sure, but it's faster, not rock weak, is my sturdy water resistance vs rain and also still hits very hard. Origin was always the pick of choice in most games but one game I was able to use regular Palkia using Choice Scarf so I was happy with that. The nickname refers to my alt I used to ladder with in SS Ubers with the sole use of Palkia.
(Nickname: Fear Me) - I wanted Deoxys-Attack since it was faster and obviously stronger but Mewtwo is no slouch either and is still extremely threatening in its own right. Nasty Plot tended to be my set of choice because locking yourself in unless Scarf is kinda trolling and being able to switch moves with Mewtwo's colourful coverage is beneficial in Ubers. The nickname refers to Unnerve, which makes pokemon "too scared to eat berries". The new Mewtwo model also looks evil.
(Nickname: Him) - Drafted the King of OverUsed for Ubers. I felt I needed a ground and a bulky physically defensive pokemon. Arceus also being your sole rocker is also throwing so I had to go my boy Lando. It wasn't always delegated to defensive sets though. Choice Scarf Adamant hits pretty hard even with Ubers level bulk since its attack stat is high enough. Nickname makes sense, Landorus is HIM.
/
(Nickname: what the dog doin) - Due to my lack of ultra speed from lack of Deoxys-A, I needed something faster than 130. Zamazenta was one of the few good pokemon that fit the bill for that. Having access to both formes also was helpful, a secondary steel could help the team defensively and though it didn't come as often because the Hero Forme's speed is much more appreciated, it's a good wincon with ID Press. Nickname is from a meme most people should be aware of.
(Nickname: Pureblood) - Clefable, a mon I can never escape from drafting. In the Ubers economy, having a Fairy type is vital and while the rest feel middling asf if you don't have a Xerneas, Clefable is something my team heavily appreciated. It's good anti-setup with Unaware, is also a rocker and can just be annoying spreading status and recovering off damage. Clefable just has enough bulk when invested in the right defence stat to stave off attackers that it may seem to not be able to. Nickname refers to Pureblood Heartless from the Kingdom Hearts series, Clefable is quite a heartless pokemon to face in battle.
(Nickname: Little One Fights) - Mega Kangaskhan wasn't as commonly brought as the main 6 above it, but I was impressed with its performance. Seismic Toss means nothing other than Ghost types want to be losing basically half their HP upon switchin. It has enough bulk and utility in Wish to work as a defensive pokemon despite its lack of resistances. I would use this again if I could, perhaps on a team that would appreciate using it more. Nickname is also obvious, the baby grew up and learned to how to fight.
(Nickname: N/A it never came) - When I draft, I really try my best to make sure I can get use out of every pokemon I can draft. I've arrived at another situation where I draft a pokemon a good number of points and it just doesn't do anything. I had this same issue with the Low Tier Tour (post on that here) a while where I drafted Bisharp and it was mid asf and only came once. Zeraora never even showed up at all. I was too concerned with fixing speed tiers which tbf I was probably fine with Mewtwo + Zamazenta-H. These 16 points could've gone to use with a Poison-type that might've come some games to get rid of my vulnerabilities to Tspikes, which I will cover later.
(Nickname: Agent Woah) - I am a Wo-Chien believer, it came once, did some stuff in the rain matchup, then never came again. Good worth of 8 points I must say.
(Nickname: N/A it also never came) - Is this a sign that my top 6/7 were that good that I never had to bring Moth or is this a drafting skill issue? Probably the latter, I pride myself on my playing ability to get out of bad mus more than my actual drafting skill. Anyway, I needed a grounded poison, Tspikes are a bitch and I might as well have my own Tspikes. Only issue is, Moth was just not coming to any games.
Now here was my insights in the games I played throughout this play:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2059442180
Alright we made it out of pools, who is our next opponent? Oh no, a Primal Kyogre, that's going to be annoying and also an opposing Steelceus. Let's see how to get out of this one. Mewtwo with Colbur screws over Chien-Pao yep, Palkia-O resists water and can cook all of their pokemon with STABs + Fire Blast. Zama-C would be my additional Ice resist, handles Arceus-Steel, MSciz and Clefable. Mega Kanga is also on overtime, spreading Toxic and Seismic Toss. The game was pretty close, with Zamazenta-C clutching it out killing Deoxys and Clefable through paralysis.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2065970219-szi4jcfhkapiyzkww6as76xdoia57nvpw
Another Caly-Ice draft? Suffering time. Toxic Spikes was again a problem this game so I had to go my trusty Defog Landorus. The later the rounds went, my opponents were just straightup cooking 5 star meals. Zekrom was Clear Amulet to avoid Landorus Intimidate with Breaking Swipe freaking Breaking Swipe. I saw nothing coming this game at all. I didn't even expect Rillaboom to make it because Rillaboom frankly ain't him in the stats department when facing some of these behemoths. One thing I was happy I went this game was Choice Scarf Palkia. It was necessary to keep DD Zekrom in check and Origin forme would've just folded in the DD Zek + Scarf Eternatus, the latter I expected to come this game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2071254705
Welp this is the game that got me out. Frankly, I think I played this to the best of my ability and was in a winning position but you know, Focus Blast does Focus Blast things. Mewtwo missing Fire Blast my first pools game, Mewtwo missing Focus Blast in my last game of the tour. Poetic, I'd say. I obviously take some responsibility I probably could've gotten away running Aura Sphere instead and mistakenly assumed the worst case scenario of 252hp 252spdef+ darkceus which was pretty unlikely so I got diffed in the builder I suppose. I bet so many people just ran 252hp 252spe+ Arceus throughout the tour but I always wanted to use my EVs a bit more wisely. I also probably should've swapped out my Clefable vs Eternatus but I certainly wasn't expecting Venoshock xD.
I'll be back for the next natdex ubers tour and hopefully get what I want this time around but for a draft I had no intentions of drafting, I did enjoy using the draft and we can learn not to waste points in the future. Thanks for reading.
(Nickname: Silvally-Normal/God Arcues) - Pretty solid support pokemon all things considered. Had good damage, good bulk and good support options. Came every game. Nickname was just silly stuff because Arceus/Silvally relationship./ (Nickname: Palk97) - Nyx liked to clown my Palkia pick when I had an open Kyurem-White but Palkia and I, we have a bond that transcends alleged "inferior viability". 2011 TTK would not appreciate me not using Palkia and in SS Ubers, I made it my goal to get Palkia, which I succeeded at. It has lower spatk than Kyurem-W sure, but it's faster, not rock weak, is my sturdy water resistance vs rain and also still hits very hard. Origin was always the pick of choice in most games but one game I was able to use regular Palkia using Choice Scarf so I was happy with that. The nickname refers to my alt I used to ladder with in SS Ubers with the sole use of Palkia. (Nickname: Fear Me) - I wanted Deoxys-Attack since it was faster and obviously stronger but Mewtwo is no slouch either and is still extremely threatening in its own right. Nasty Plot tended to be my set of choice because locking yourself in unless Scarf is kinda trolling and being able to switch moves with Mewtwo's colourful coverage is beneficial in Ubers. The nickname refers to Unnerve, which makes pokemon "too scared to eat berries". The new Mewtwo model also looks evil. (Nickname: Him) - Drafted the King of OverUsed for Ubers. I felt I needed a ground and a bulky physically defensive pokemon. Arceus also being your sole rocker is also throwing so I had to go my boy Lando. It wasn't always delegated to defensive sets though. Choice Scarf Adamant hits pretty hard even with Ubers level bulk since its attack stat is high enough. Nickname makes sense, Landorus is HIM./ (Nickname: what the dog doin) - Due to my lack of ultra speed from lack of Deoxys-A, I needed something faster than 130. Zamazenta was one of the few good pokemon that fit the bill for that. Having access to both formes also was helpful, a secondary steel could help the team defensively and though it didn't come as often because the Hero Forme's speed is much more appreciated, it's a good wincon with ID Press. Nickname is from a meme most people should be aware of. (Nickname: Pureblood) - Clefable, a mon I can never escape from drafting. In the Ubers economy, having a Fairy type is vital and while the rest feel middling asf if you don't have a Xerneas, Clefable is something my team heavily appreciated. It's good anti-setup with Unaware, is also a rocker and can just be annoying spreading status and recovering off damage. Clefable just has enough bulk when invested in the right defence stat to stave off attackers that it may seem to not be able to. Nickname refers to Pureblood Heartless from the Kingdom Hearts series, Clefable is quite a heartless pokemon to face in battle. (Nickname: Little One Fights) - Mega Kangaskhan wasn't as commonly brought as the main 6 above it, but I was impressed with its performance. Seismic Toss means nothing other than Ghost types want to be losing basically half their HP upon switchin. It has enough bulk and utility in Wish to work as a defensive pokemon despite its lack of resistances. I would use this again if I could, perhaps on a team that would appreciate using it more. Nickname is also obvious, the baby grew up and learned to how to fight. (Nickname: N/A it never came) - When I draft, I really try my best to make sure I can get use out of every pokemon I can draft. I've arrived at another situation where I draft a pokemon a good number of points and it just doesn't do anything. I had this same issue with the Low Tier Tour (post on that here) a while where I drafted Bisharp and it was mid asf and only came once. Zeraora never even showed up at all. I was too concerned with fixing speed tiers which tbf I was probably fine with Mewtwo + Zamazenta-H. These 16 points could've gone to use with a Poison-type that might've come some games to get rid of my vulnerabilities to Tspikes, which I will cover later. (Nickname: Agent Woah) - I am a Wo-Chien believer, it came once, did some stuff in the rain matchup, then never came again. Good worth of 8 points I must say. (Nickname: N/A it also never came) - Is this a sign that my top 6/7 were that good that I never had to bring Moth or is this a drafting skill issue? Probably the latter, I pride myself on my playing ability to get out of bad mus more than my actual drafting skill. Anyway, I needed a grounded poison, Tspikes are a bitch and I might as well have my own Tspikes. Only issue is, Moth was just not coming to any games.Now here was my insights in the games I played throughout this play:
vs Lennart
(click for import)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2049478398
I see rain and I'm excited because I have a Palkia and Wo-Chien combination. Ghost resistance since Last Respects is silly bros so I was feeling confident going into this. Next thing I see, Fire Blast into MSciz misses turn 14 and I could win the lategame but Palkia misses Thunder on Basculegion so great first game I must say! Hopefully, the next 2 pool games go better!
vs Metro
The first of my many tussles vs the annoying Calyrex-Ice, I was pretty scared into this mu because my opponent is good at the game, but anything is preppable so I get to the forge to decide what to bring. Palkia-O + Mewtwo are strong offensive pressure with Kasib Berry Mewtwo so you can bait in Spectrier, Unaware Spdef Clef so Shell Smash MToise also doesn't 6-0 me. Arceus-Steel was also here to 1v1 Calyrex-Ice with Calm Mind Judgment. Scarf Landorus was definitely the MVP of the game, I could afford Adamant to hit as hard as possible and being able to deal with Garchomp and Mega Blastoise was key.
vs ontario oshawott
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9natdexdraft-743916
I did enjoy this game a lot. I got to run Supercell Slam Arceus of all things to keep Palafin under wraps. This game's MVP was definitely Clefable with the paralysis and being able to check the behemoth Mega Mewtwo X without even Unaware. It also checked Reshiram and paralysed Arceus-Dark. I covered this game in a video of mine if you're interested in my mindset regarding the draft.
So we end pools 2-1 and we move onto round 2.
(click for import)https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2049478398
I see rain and I'm excited because I have a Palkia and Wo-Chien combination. Ghost resistance since Last Respects is silly bros so I was feeling confident going into this. Next thing I see, Fire Blast into MSciz misses turn 14 and I could win the lategame but Palkia misses Thunder on Basculegion so great first game I must say! Hopefully, the next 2 pool games go better!
vs Metro
The first of my many tussles vs the annoying Calyrex-Ice, I was pretty scared into this mu because my opponent is good at the game, but anything is preppable so I get to the forge to decide what to bring. Palkia-O + Mewtwo are strong offensive pressure with Kasib Berry Mewtwo so you can bait in Spectrier, Unaware Spdef Clef so Shell Smash MToise also doesn't 6-0 me. Arceus-Steel was also here to 1v1 Calyrex-Ice with Calm Mind Judgment. Scarf Landorus was definitely the MVP of the game, I could afford Adamant to hit as hard as possible and being able to deal with Garchomp and Mega Blastoise was key.
vs ontario oshawott
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9natdexdraft-743916
I did enjoy this game a lot. I got to run Supercell Slam Arceus of all things to keep Palafin under wraps. This game's MVP was definitely Clefable with the paralysis and being able to check the behemoth Mega Mewtwo X without even Unaware. It also checked Reshiram and paralysed Arceus-Dark. I covered this game in a video of mine if you're interested in my mindset regarding the draft.
So we end pools 2-1 and we move onto round 2.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2059442180
Alright we made it out of pools, who is our next opponent? Oh no, a Primal Kyogre, that's going to be annoying and also an opposing Steelceus. Let's see how to get out of this one. Mewtwo with Colbur screws over Chien-Pao yep, Palkia-O resists water and can cook all of their pokemon with STABs + Fire Blast. Zama-C would be my additional Ice resist, handles Arceus-Steel, MSciz and Clefable. Mega Kanga is also on overtime, spreading Toxic and Seismic Toss. The game was pretty close, with Zamazenta-C clutching it out killing Deoxys and Clefable through paralysis.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2065970219-szi4jcfhkapiyzkww6as76xdoia57nvpw
Another Caly-Ice draft? Suffering time. Toxic Spikes was again a problem this game so I had to go my trusty Defog Landorus. The later the rounds went, my opponents were just straightup cooking 5 star meals. Zekrom was Clear Amulet to avoid Landorus Intimidate with Breaking Swipe freaking Breaking Swipe. I saw nothing coming this game at all. I didn't even expect Rillaboom to make it because Rillaboom frankly ain't him in the stats department when facing some of these behemoths. One thing I was happy I went this game was Choice Scarf Palkia. It was necessary to keep DD Zekrom in check and Origin forme would've just folded in the DD Zek + Scarf Eternatus, the latter I expected to come this game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2071254705
Welp this is the game that got me out. Frankly, I think I played this to the best of my ability and was in a winning position but you know, Focus Blast does Focus Blast things. Mewtwo missing Fire Blast my first pools game, Mewtwo missing Focus Blast in my last game of the tour. Poetic, I'd say. I obviously take some responsibility I probably could've gotten away running Aura Sphere instead and mistakenly assumed the worst case scenario of 252hp 252spdef+ darkceus which was pretty unlikely so I got diffed in the builder I suppose. I bet so many people just ran 252hp 252spe+ Arceus throughout the tour but I always wanted to use my EVs a bit more wisely. I also probably should've swapped out my Clefable vs Eternatus but I certainly wasn't expecting Venoshock xD.
I'll be back for the next natdex ubers tour and hopefully get what I want this time around but for a draft I had no intentions of drafting, I did enjoy using the draft and we can learn not to waste points in the future. Thanks for reading.
Attachments
top cut update next week?Hello draft gamers, have you ever wondered what the winrate of specific Pokemon are in the big Smogon tournaments that are run? Well I can't answer that but for this Winter Seasonal I can offer the next best thing:
Winter Seasonal Remaining Pokemon
This Google Sheets lists all of the Pokemon in this Winter Seasonal and how many of each are remaining. It is formatted in a slightly confusing way but here's the best way I can explain it. From left to right
% of Pokemon remaining compared to original number that were drafted | Pokemon name (Number Drafted/52 [Total # of Pools])
Sorry I had to remove the pretty pictures of the Pokemon, it was the best way to do it with my limited knowledge of Google Sheets.
So you may ask, "Why is this useful?" And the answer is because everyone is trying to figure out the "best" way to draft and this can at least back an argument up with some statistics. The meta for Gen 9 has constantly been shifting while people try to figure out Tera rules and where to place new DLC releases, so using the biggest Draft tour in terms of sheer numbers feels like a good place to start. Something to note is that there is no way to see how each Pokemon performs with certain partners, but with a lot of them it doesn't really matter.
If reading or looking at spreadsheets isn't your forte, like most draft players myself included, I'll list some interesting points.
NEWCOMERS (DLC 1+2 BRAND NEW RELEASES)
5/17 remain. How sad for one of the new Pokemon with the biggest expectations. I haven't seen any replays with this, so I'll chock it up to newer players not knowing how to use it/forcing a full rain team with it.
0/1 remain. No surprise here honestly, not a meta defining Pokemon here.
7/12 remain. Probably the most draftable of the Loyal Three, but still will end up being a middling Pokemon that you only take if you're beyond desperate for a Fairy type and grounded Poison.
14/25 remain. Tera ban be damned, this Pokemon is still a menace.
4/10 remain. Turns out Regenerator can't even save the Grass/Dragon typing.
9/24 remain. This Pokemon is good I swear. It's just hard to build a team around and without Tera it is even harder.
4/7 remain. Only set I ever see do well with this thing is crit-me-not ID CM Stored Power. A cheesy gimmick sweeper that's at least pretty fast.
1/1 remain. Ok.
2/3 remain. Like the other Royal Three members, it is just too hard to fit them on teams (unless you're a12 who drafted all 3).
3/4 remain. Base Ogerpon is fine, however if you want Ogerpon there are much better options.
4/4 remain. If you're looking for 2 good mid-range Tera Captains, Ogerpon-C apparently isn't the left behind little sister people make her out to be.
7/15 remain. No Tera has apparently made this Pokemon balanced.
18/34 remain. Best Ogerpon by far, if this Pokemon gets to keep Tera it will be meta defining. Very scary Pokemon.
2/3 remain. See Munkidori.
6/15 remain. I think this number is a little misleading. I think Pecharunt will end up finding a place in the meta, I just think people tried too hard to always use it as a setup sweeper.
23/34 remain. With the highest % still around out of the Pokemon with 20 or more drafts besides Donphan, it is clear that Raging Bolt is strong. Possibly too strong for the point value. Tera makes this the Pokemon to beat for this tour, and I wouldn't be surprised to see quite a few of these in the top cut.
7/14 remain. Average Pokemon is average. Pretty good Tera partner for a 17/18 point main Tera captain.
10/16 remain. Rapid Spin is hard to come by, and with super Multiscale it's a pretty good support/setup sweeper even without Tera.
SIGNIFICANT SHIFTS SINCE SUMMER SEASONAL
44/44 > 7/52
No Tera, no surprise.
43/44 > 0/52
Rest in Pis- Peace.
41/44 > 29/52
Bundle stocks are down big time.
40/44 > 23/52
No tera, no surprise.
42/44 > 28/52
This one's a little confusing to me.
41/44 > 16/52
No tera, no surprise.
36/44 > 17/52
No tera, no surprise.
35/44 > 9/52
New toy syndrome boosted this subpar Pokemon to very high usage.
32/44 > 13/52
32 people drafted this thing in summer?! The desperation for Fairy types is real.
OR
32/44 > 18/52
Too much competition for the panda, unless this is Rapid Strike I can't tell from the sprite.
26/44 > 6/52
See Landorus. Maybe this was also significantly cheaper, which is likely as well.
24/44 > 11/52
Gouging Fire gave this a run for its money.
24/44 > 8/52
A lot of bulky waters getting Flip Turn proved to be too much.
21/44 > 6/52
Moltres has returned to its throne.
20/44 > 6/52
See Landorus.
19/44 > 0/52
See Landorus.
18/44 > 29/52
New tera rules have revived the Sinnoh legendary.
18/44 > 5/52
Access to more moves wasn't enough to keep it around.
18/44 > 0/52
See Zama-C.
17/44 > 5/52
See Slowking.
17/44 > 5/52
17 people really drafted this.
5/44 > 19/52
goat.
3/44 > 13/52
goat.
1/55 > 15/52
TTar's old sand pal Excadrill revived this fallen legend. That and Knock Off.
KEY STATS
0% remaining with most picked
/
6/52
Sorry VGC players, this is singles. And Quagsire drafters must have been Unaware that they were not in a gen 6 draft league.
100% remaining with most picked
/
If you want a Pokemon that you think is too expensive, just draft their much cheaper pre-evolution.
Most drafted 18 pointer(s)
52/52
No surprise here. Easy Pokemon to build a team around.
Most drafted 1 pointer(s)
13/52
goat.
The State of Gen 9 Unaware
/
/
20% / 15.4% / 0%
What a sad sight to see. Not.
"Best" 18 pointer
33/49 remain.
If you were wondering the "best" Pokemon to first pick, statistically Palafin is significantly ahead of both all of the 17 and 18 pointers, besides Latias.
"Best" Tera Captain
Out of all of the Latias picked, 26/27 of the remaining are Tera Captains. With the highest pick rate for Tera Captain by a substantial margin and a respectable 27/43 remaining, it is clearly the "best".
"Worst" Tera Captain
Despite being picked as a Tera Captain 15 times, only 5 Tera Captain Iron Moths remain.
MISCELLANEOUS STATS
Just going to use this section to point out things I personally found interesting.
2/11 remain. Poor guy just wants to be able to Terastallize again come on guys it wasn't THAT broken
16/41 remain. I remember a lot of people were iffy about allowing this back, and even wanting some clauses just for it. I figured they were wrong, and I'm glad to see I was correct.
16/24 remain. Figured Scizor was still strong despite losing Roost. No clue it was this good.
/
/
12/19
9/13
10/15
Waters are so back. Flip Turn is doing wonders for the mid-tier bulky waters.
And that's it. I'm lazy and the script is a littly funky but I'll update it after the swiss stage is over, and maybe again for top 16 or something.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1i_9KrCZHgsHHp8NjxZgJbeMNlT2JIV5SDF4N1iv7GUY/edit?usp=sharing
Winter Seasonal Top Cut Statistics by Point Tier. The point tier with the most variety is the 9pt tier and it's not close. The point tier with the least amount of appearances/variety is the 4pt tier with exactly one Cryogonal in it. Guess that's the line between usable and cheap. The pokemon with the most appearances is Meowscarada, though Raging Bolt is pretty close to it (every single Raging Bolt seems to be tera, cross-referencing with henguinie's post). Every single one pointer is unique so that's cute.
Winter Seasonal Top Cut Statistics by Point Tier. The point tier with the most variety is the 9pt tier and it's not close. The point tier with the least amount of appearances/variety is the 4pt tier with exactly one Cryogonal in it. Guess that's the line between usable and cheap. The pokemon with the most appearances is Meowscarada, though Raging Bolt is pretty close to it (every single Raging Bolt seems to be tera, cross-referencing with henguinie's post). Every single one pointer is unique so that's cute.
this was actually incredibly fun to read lmaoHello everyone, I made this document to see how many remaining Pokemon were left in Winter Seasonal, and I'm going to do something similar here.
Last time I first did it around Round 6 first just to let all the activity call/lower quality drafts get weeded out but this time I'm going to do it right after to see trends.
Once the official Pick Rate/Tera Captain stats are posted I'll update with the rest, so now the ball is in your court John Smogon.
SIGNIFICANT SHIFTS SINCE WINTER SEASONAL
I opted to ignore Tera Captains, however it should be considered that some of the Pokemon on this list work best together only function well when Terastallization is considered.
3 TIMES,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
4 TIMES
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
5 TIMES
,
,
6 TIMES
7 TIMES
,
8 TIMES
(+some generic commentary for each pair from now on)
Gholdengo webs, the true classic. Gholdengo keeps webs up while that base 84 Speed loves to see -1 Speed Pokemon.
Two good Pokemon are good. Also, most of Great Tusk's weaknesses are covered by Tinkaton.
Two good Pokemon are good. Also, Kingambit beats most of the Ghost and Poison types Sneasler struggles against while Sneasler provides some much needed speed for Kingambit.
Two good Pokemon are good. Also, Raging Bolt soaks up Electric- and Grass-type moves while also beating up the bulky waters that Palafin doesn't like.
9 TIMES
A fun Volt Switch core that cover each other very well.
A fun VoltTurn core that cover each other very well.
10 TIMES
Strong Tera user + strong banned Tera user = strong combo!
Two gluey Pokemon that stick well on pretty much every team, making the rest of the 6 drafted very flexible! Also, Torn eats the fighting hits Terapagos doesn't like.
11 TIMES
Strong Tera user + strong banned Tera user = strong combo! Plus, Torn loves to have a good hazard setter.
See the second sentence above.
A fun and flexible VoltTurn core that cover each other very well.
Yeah Pokemon wasn't thinking for singles when they made Sneasler. Activating Unburden while giving +1 Defense to shrug off super effective Earthquakes is real great! Even without an Unburden set, they form a fun little U-turn core.
,
A sun core classic.
12 TIMES
If Torkoal/Walking Wake is this generation's sun core classic, Archaludon/Pelipper is this generation's rain core classic. While sun gets Torkoal and Ninetales as viable setters, Politoed is clearly not the favorite against Pelipper. And with Archaludon being able to be a Tera Captain, it makes sense that this safe looking core is the sole #1 winner of being drafted the most together out of 58 pools.
And that's it for this round! If there are any surprises for me, it's that Slowking-Galar isn't higher with Raging Bolt since Slowking gives Raging Bolt a nasty 100 base power Ice-type move in Weather Ba-
18 TIMES
Yeah. The jump from 12 pools to 18 between #1 and #2 is incredibly jarring and concerning. Raging Bolt got drafted 52 times meaning over 1/3 also picked Meowscarada. Just a bunch of sheep! Sheep! But yeah, good Pokemon are good and with Raging Bolt as a primary Tera Captain looking to a Pokemon like Meowscarada who doesn't need Tera to pop off only makes sense.
Hello everyone, I made this document to see how many remaining Pokemon were left in Winter Seasonal, and I'm going to do something similar here.
Last time I first did it around Round 6 first just to let all the activity call/lower quality drafts get weeded out but this time I'm going to do it right after to see trends.
Summer Seasonal Remaining
43/52 > 15/58
NOT being able to terastallize also does wonders.
With as many high tier newcomers introduced to the draft board as there were this time, as well as a general decline in the Darkrai stocks, it makes sense there was a significant dropoff.
Seems like people finally really see the value in the unique role this Pokemon brings.
Being able to terastallize does wonders.
Hmm, two stupid strong Tera Captains get undervalued the same amount and the very next tour get equally valued. Strange coincidence.
Greninja being that low in winter shocks me, but glad to see it get the recognition it deserves this time.
People got mind controlled into thinking Landorus-Therian wasn't still the goat in winter, good that spell was broken.
The stark drop in price from 17 to 13 not only did not save the grass snake from irrelevancy, it took it further down.
The reintroduction to Sneasler brought the grass monkey back from the brink.
21/52 > 11/58
Weavile just isn't strong enough to keep up anymore, Triple Axel, Knock Off and all.
Not quite sure if I understand this one honestly. Iron Moth was one of the better looking legal Tera Captains (even though I personally think it still stunk then) on the winter board but now with some new tools to tera with, we pick the moth still?
Wait I'm not even changing the Rillaboom section because I legitimately thought Sneasler was banned in winter. Did people think this thing needed Tera to be strong?
See Torn-T.
"10/16 remain. Rapid Spin is hard to come by, and with super Multiscale it's a pretty good support/setup sweeper even without Tera." From winter. Just pretty good I said? Yeah I'll upgrade that to great. It's a great glue to throw on most teams.
Aw man why did no one like the hazard mon in winterMaybe because people didn't realize it's not JUST the hazard mon and can do much more.
15/52 > 5/58
Uhh, if Shed Tail is banned there is virtually 0 reason to pick this up. Sorry Orthworm.
Yep, Water/Fairy is a good typing and Primarina is a pretty good Pokemon
15/52 > 5/58
Guess Excadrill and Knock Off wasn't enough to keep TTar around.
15/52 > 3/58
Weird this thing even got drafted 15 times in winter when there's a version with a top hat that's so much better.
13/52 > 1/58
Oh how the mighty have fallen.
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
0/52 > not 0/58
Yay all (or at least most) of the Pokemon that did not get drafted during winter that got drafted now! Special shoutout to Ursaluna for jumping the most, from 0 to 8 picks!
I opted to ignore Tera Captains, however it should be considered that some of the Pokemon on this list work best together or only function well when Terastallization is considered.
3 TIMES
4 TIMES
5 TIMES
6 TIMES
7 TIMES
8 TIMES
(+some generic commentary for each pair from now on)
Gholdengo webs, the true classic. Gholdengo keeps webs up while that base 84 Speed loves to see -1 Speed Pokemon.
Two good Pokemon are good. Also, most of Great Tusk's weaknesses are covered by Tinkaton.
Two good Pokemon are good. Also, Kingambit beats most of the Ghost and Poison types Sneasler struggles against while Sneasler provides some much needed speed for Kingambit.
Two good Pokemon are good. Also, Raging Bolt soaks up Electric- and Grass-type moves while also beating up the bulky waters that Palafin doesn't like.
9 TIMES
A fun Volt Switch core that cover each other very well.
A fun VoltTurn core that cover each other very well.
10 TIMES
Strong Tera user + strong banned Tera user = strong combo!
Two gluey Pokemon that stick well on pretty much every team, making the rest of the 6 drafted very flexible! Also, Torn eats the fighting hits Terapagos doesn't like.
11 TIMES
Strong Tera user + strong banned Tera user = strong combo! Plus, Torn loves to have a good hazard setter.
See the second sentence above.
A fun and flexible VoltTurn core that cover each other very well.
Yeah Pokemon wasn't thinking for singles when they made Sneasler. Activating Unburden while giving +1 Defense to shrug off super effective Earthquakes is real great! Even without an Unburden set, they form a fun little U-turn core.
A sun core classic.
12 TIMES
If Torkoal/Walking Wake is this generation's sun core classic, Archaludon/Pelipper is this generation's rain core classic. While sun gets Torkoal and Ninetales as viable setters, Politoed is clearly not the favorite against Pelipper. And with Archaludon being able to be a Tera Captain, it makes sense that this safe looking core is the sole #1 winner of being drafted the most together out of 58 pools.
And that's it for this round! If there are any surprises for me, it's that Slowking-Galar isn't higher with Raging Bolt since Slowking gives Raging Bolt a nasty 100 base power Ice-type move in Weather Ba-
18 TIMES
Yeah. The jump from 12 pools to 18 between #1 and #2 is incredibly jarring and concerning. Raging Bolt got drafted 52 times meaning over 1/3 also picked Meowscarada. Just a bunch of sheep! Sheep! But yeah, good Pokemon are good and with Raging Bolt as a primary Tera Captain looking to a Pokemon like Meowscarada who doesn't need Tera to pop off only makes sense.
Most drafted 19 pointer(s)
The two ungendered royalty return to their thrones. Arguably the best and safest Pokemon this gen to just always first pick in Great Tusk with the flexible powerhouse Iron Valiant.
Most drafted 1 pointer(s)
7/58
A deceptively strong and tanky Fairy-type that can't be Taunted or Encored, a cheap snow synergy with all the Slowkings running around, and a tanky Fairy-type hazard bot. All worthy of getting picked up for a point.
Weather Wars
,
,
,
19/58 ⠀3/58⠀14/58⠀4/58⠀ 10/58⠀⠀9/58⠀ 5/58⠀ 1/58
Not counting Chilly Reception, rain edges out sun and hail just a little bit. With Vulpix-Alola, rain only up by one. Sand seems to be dead in the water, 25 points for Excadrill/Tyranitar in gen 9 is just a bit too steep it seems.
???
9/58
Um. Hey, everyone the best Tera Captain for its value got drafted less than JOLTEON! Just thought everybody should know that. We can do better in 2025.
n/a
n/a
n/a
Something's a bit strange here in the 'common partners' section. Iron Valiant and Iron Treads are paired up 3 times, but Iron Treads and Iron Valiant are paired up 7 times. I haven't looked closely at any of the others but I imagine this might not be an isolated incident.
Good catch, ideally is an isolated incident with how I did it but if you or anyone happens to catch another I'll go through everything manually. Thanks for the heads up
LC Speed Tier and Draft Board Tracking Doc
Hi everyone! I made a simple sheet that compiles all the current LC Pokemon into speed tiers with checkboxes and filters to hide drafted Pokemon or highlight specific types or abilities in LC on top of their max Speed. I might add a Moves filter at some point and a Natdex v SV / Current Gen filter if it is relevant or requested. Copy and use as you'd like!
Hi everyone! I made a simple sheet that compiles all the current LC Pokemon into speed tiers with checkboxes and filters to hide drafted Pokemon or highlight specific types or abilities in LC on top of their max Speed. I might add a Moves filter at some point and a Natdex v SV / Current Gen filter if it is relevant or requested. Copy and use as you'd like!
TIL the Rowap Berry exists... As a Terapagos user, I must not let this information spread to the rest of my draft league server