Nope! Not at all! And I just gotta say, love how the ancient Paradoxes are all fierce and fired up whilst the future Paradoxes are kinda just there, like robots XD
Sorry I was confused. You kick ass regardless.
Nope! Not at all! And I just gotta say, love how the ancient Paradoxes are all fierce and fired up whilst the future Paradoxes are kinda just there, like robots XD
This question is strictly theoretical. We cannot answer it with the current metagame in-tact. We can answer the very real, focal questions on Archaludon in the current metagame, however.Would rain be more managable without Barraskewda and forcing rain to have to use Floatzel and Basculegion?
Archaludon is obviously not broken without support; this is a noteworthy point against it. However, the convenience of the support and the practical context of the actual metagame still matters. In the end, tiering is a results oriented business, nothing more or less.Most people would say Archaludon is not powerful on its own or outside of rain and I agree; its the core that makes it super strong
This really isn’t your job or the general public’s job. The tiering council decided to act on Archaludon; it is the public’s job to vote on if they believe it is banworthy or not. It is not your job to pick the subject of suspects or anything quite like that. Deeper policy issues aren’t always going to be perfectly democratic because, as you can tell by this thread, there are many people who don’t truly understand tiering, precedent, order of operations, etc. We made a decision based off of a plethora of public feedback and a unanimous internal consensus at the end of the day. It isn’t on anyone else to assess each option of the core or any other elements. This is why rules like the one in the OP I quoted before and you alluded to exist: to keep discussions on topic and away from losing the thread altogether.All that aside, if the issue is the core, we should assess each option of the core.
Going from “not been near the level of broken as many of the obvious quickban pokemon” to “even the mons we’ve suspected before” is quite the range, but, nevertheless, I disagree. It’s one of the most broken suspects we have had and the metagame has been adapting quite a bit. The issue is, as we have seen, that adaptation forces very limited team structures and a small pool of Pokemon. Clodsire galore, water immunities all over, an abundance of cores stacking immunities to Electric and Dragon, etc. We cannot pretend that’s a healthy dynamic for the metagame.This rain core has not been near the level of broken as many of the obvious quickban pokemon or even some of the mons we've suspected before. We may just need time to adapt.
Im not picking any suspects, I'm discussing the pokemon that obviously revolve around this ban. Can we not discuss whether one part of a core is broken or not just because we aren't on council?? What is this elitism? "Its not our job" We don't have a job; we're the public. We are free to discuss the pokemon in question in this thread, which I am doing by bringing up the possibility that Archaludon only being broken because of a core means it may not necessarily be the most broken pokemon in that core. I would have much rather you responded with just: "Here is the reason we decided to suspect Archaludon instead of Barraskewda/rain". I wasnt even critiquing council for choosing Archaludon as a suspect, I was simply proposing it might not be him thats the biggest issue and trying to discuss if thats true. So why are you giving me this defensive response? I dont think we're losing the discussion thread if the reason Archaludon is even being suspected is because of rain and we're discussing rain.This really isn’t your job or the general public’s job. The tiering council decided to act on Archaludon; it is the public’s job to vote on if they believe it is banworthy or not. It is not your job to pick the subject of suspects or anything quite like that. Deeper policy issues aren’t always going to be perfectly democratic because, as you can tell by this thread, there are many people who don’t truly understand tiering, precedent, order of operations, etc. We made a decision based off of a plethora of public feedback and a unanimous internal consensus at the end of the day. It isn’t on anyone else to assess each option of the core or any other elements. This is why rules like the one in the OP I quoted before and you alluded to exist: to keep discussions on topic and away from losing the thread altogether.
I have said multiple times you guys are free to discuss this in the metagame discussion thread. I even said it in the post you alluded to last time. Discussing other Pokemon being a problem over Arch just isn’t correctly placed in a thread specifically on Arch. This isn’t a debate so much as it’s reality.Can we not discuss whether one part of a core is broken or not just because we aren't on council?? What is this elitism? "Its not our job" We don't have a job; we're the public. We are free to discuss the pokemon in question in this thread, which I am doing by bringing up the possibility that Archaludon only being broken because of a core means it may not necessarily be the most broken pokemon in that core.
I'm saying in my initial post that its difficult to fully discuss and debate Archaludon's brokenness without talking about rain in general. Its only logical with Archaludon being broken only in a certain core that it would make others wonder if its Archaludon that is the primary problem. I think thats worth discussing if we are trying to decide on if Archaludon is a problem. I don't even necessarily find Barraskewda or rain to be the for sure biggest issue, I just wish we would discuss it and maybe that would lead us back to saying "it isnt barraskewda thats the issue here, it definitely is Archaludon thats broken". These are important things to discuss imo. These are the things that will most likely lead us to our personal votes of Ban/DNB on this suspect.I have said multiple times you guys are free to discuss this in the metagame discussion thread. I even said it in the post you alluded to last time. Discussing other Pokemon being a problem over Arch just isn’t correctly placed in a thread specifically on Arch. This isn’t a debate so much as it’s reality.
Claiming I am an elitist for…doing my job given the literal word of the rules…and giving people a proper place to discuss things is nuts. We have taken so many steps to get people involved between surveys, more suspects, most active discussion ever, etc. This isn’t me getting defensive so much as me just doing my job as a moderator of the forum, which I also am regardless of my status on council. It’s important people know where to discuss things and basic posting etiquette. And when people question it, reasoning is good to provide. Transparency is important. That doesn’t make me an elitist. I don’t appreciate being labeled as such — if you want me to be “defensive”, then yes, I take some offense to that being your reaction. But my initial post was just matter-of-fact and explaining.
This person has been my hero since I seen their first post. Keep up the good work and stick around for as long as you want. We need more people like you :)View attachment 604484
You guys are really saying that Arch is better than quite a lot of these behemoths. Wow
Ok, really I just wanted to share this photo I found XD
This doesn’t add up at all to me. At the start of your first post, you referenced the post where I said this is off-topic.I would also like to point out your initial response to me was not "you should move this to metagame discussion." It was "The council has decided x and you should live with that. Do not discuss it, its for us to discuss", which is what I felt was elitism. It read like you were just shutting me down like I dont have a say and not like you were telling me an alternative place to discuss it.
In that same exact post, I mentioned metagame discussion as the proper place to discuss:Preface: I know Finch and others have warned about deleting posts that talk about other suspects rather than Archaludon.
Sir, I will hear no Clodsire slander, for he is friend shaped and doing his best to hold the tier together.This thread has trailblazers paving new paths for anti-ban argumentation such as:
- posing seemingly random, staged 1v1s
- implying pre-evolutions are stronger than the suspects themselves
- posting pictures of mythical Pokemon that you have framed above your childhood bed
- Clodsire worship
A Top RMT Stall whose counterplay to Virizion was forfeit? *Vietnam flashbacksSir, I will hear no Clodsire slander, for he is friend shaped and doing his best to hold the tier together.
More directly on topic:
I'm hardly a suspect-earning player, so bear that in mind, but I don't view Archadulon as overpowered in a game - but I find the claims of people who build the teams that Istealborrow that Arch is restrictive in the builder to be compelling.
This really folds into how there are so many distinct (offensive) threats in the tier; none are impossible to check, most even have a decent enough variety of options, but those options can't cover everything unless you go full-on stall with six defensive mons. It's fine if there's one or two threats that your counterplay is "Play around them" - I remember a top RMT stall entry whose listed counterplay to Virizon was "forfeit" - but that should be the exception, not the rule.
In this view, removing Arch isn't so much because rain needs a nerf (outside the first week in SPL, it hasn't been dominating), but because preparations specifically for Arch don't overlap much with other top threats, and it'll make team building much less restrictive.
I won't earn recs, but I do encourage people to vote Ban.
I disagree with this. The context of the tier and the interactions Archaludon has got with rain/other playstyles are important factors to establish whether it should be banned or not. Every single Pokémon ban could potentially influence the entire metagame, so it's not off-topic to go in depth about something not directly suspected, as long as it helps explaining your position on the matter. Let alone people to explain their opinion as they prefer, they aren't doing anything wrong. This tier will need a lot of help to get playable, all kind of advices should be welcome from new players too. Especially because they are the only ones to show any interest to SV OU related tiering threads. I wonder why.I have said multiple times you guys are free to discuss this in the metagame discussion thread. I even said it in the post you alluded to last time. Discussing other Pokemon being a problem over Arch just isn’t correctly placed in a thread specifically on Arch. This isn’t a debate so much as it’s reality.
You missed the entire point.I disagree with this. The context of the tier and the interactions Archaludon has got with rain/other playstyles are important factors to establish whether it should be banned or not. Every single Pokémon ban could potentially influence the entire metagame, so it's not off-topic to go in depth about something not directly suspected, as long as it helps explaining your position on the matter. Let alone people to explain their opinion as they prefer, they aren't doing anything wrong. This tier will need a lot of help to get playable, all kind of advices should be welcome from new players too. Especially because they are the only ones to show any interest to SV OU related tiering threads. I wonder why.
I know you don't intend to acknowledge any replies to your post, but the bolded part is just blatantly false as the OU Council was unanimous in wanting action on Archaludon.all the comments on GOAT pokeaim videos are trashing the council for this suspect, even someone on the council was against it, it speaks volumes as to how unnecessary this suspect was
Wait. There's actually high level players that disagree that Arch is broken and have somewhat valid reason to it?Hello everyone, i would like to take the time to back up the goat CTC , address the suspect of archaludon and state my opinions on it and why i strongly believe it is balanced:
- The only set people ever complain about is a set that is heavily reliant on 3 teammates, yes you need 3 teammates, iron treads for momentum purposes, pelipper, and barraskewda for flip turn, if it doesnt have one of these 3, it struggles, barraskewda is needed for the speed, if not, threats that outspeed archaludon threaten it, aka offensive tusk, offensive lando, destiny bond valiant, tera ground blast iron moth, any offensive ground ever, and if the tera is forced that is a penalty that will allow it to be revenge killed later on, i do not think rain is a consistent playstyle, there are tons of threats that put a stop to rain like dnite, roaring moon, kyurem, specs pult, gastrodon, clodsire, Hippowdon sand which i recently topped the ladder with while facing no rains, which proves its not only good for countering rain but for being anti meta as a whole, hippo sand is good into every style rn, and it hard counters rain, so with these large variety of counters, i strongly believe archaludon is good but its not great or game breaking, its not reverse sweeping literally any team with fallen5, im not saying gambit is broken but i cant deny that its way stronger than this fucking bridge, same with gouging and raging bolt, they all are better and arent even broken on their own.
- Its stabs are not spammable in this meta, flash cannon resisted by volcarona, heatran, and any water, ik people gonna bring up electro shot to counter argue this, the first thing you learn when you are learning how to structure a team is to always have a solid ground type, an electric resist because the pivot move volt switch exists, and ground types are stronger than ever this gen, like ting lu, great tusk, clodsire, lando, they all beat archaludon, in another point i will list all the counterplay to archaludon, but what i mean by non spammable stabs, is that people seem to have insomnia, didnt people cry like toddlers for walking wake to be quickbanned when it first came out? We adapted so nicely to walking wake that it was never discussed again , and i find that walking wake was way harder to adjust to than archaludon, i think people will adapt much more easily to archaludon in the future and the rain hype will die soon, remember you being sick of rain =/= it being broken, thats your problem, you dont make tiering decisions because you hate something, you make it for the betterment of the metagame, in the longterm, the ones that are advocating the archaludon ban are the most short sighted i have ever seen, you dont think it through long term or you havent been around long enough to watch an entire tier evolve and adapt till the next generation, so i would say make the right decisions and stand with me to vote do not ban you will thank me later because the metagame is still developing.
- The List of counterplay to archaludon is long as hell:
1. Hippowdon (its good i faced every team but rain and still topped ladder which proves its good without countering rain)
2. Clodsire
3. Ting Lu
4. Great Tusk
5. Landorus Therian
6. Tera ground iron moth
7. Garchomp
8. Destiny bond or cc iron valiant
9. Zamazenta (it forces tera for a revenge kill later on)
10. Superpower wellspring
11. Sash hex pult cripples it or specs tera ghost pult kills it
12. Lategame tera gambit
13. Qd tera ground volcarona
14. Tera ground volcanion
15. Twave galar slowking or chilly reception in general to reset weather
16. Tera cm raging bolt
17. Kyurem
18. Even glimmora 1v1s
19. Dd roaring moon (forces tera)
20. Torkoal and sun
21. Walking wake (fucks rain in general)
22. Opposing archaludon
23. Iron treads
24. Mirror coat tera fairy spdef alomomola(with prough to hit moon)
25. Sd high horse power rillaboom(which just beats rain lol what a joke)
As u can see this is way more counterplay than gambit, raging bolt, gouging fire or walking wake will ever have, the meta has adapted to those very nicely, but hey who knows... Uhh gee " if its banned ill make 20 posts crying or go on twitter or go in discord servers and complain about the guy who made only 1 post on it and dipped!! " sorry had to do my impression of the bird as a joke, they refer to birds as girls where i live ok back on track, let me get to my next point.
- Rain loses to any other weather, it remains the most inconsistent weather, and i used to think about spl winrate to disprove this point but by that logic, someone can bring enamorus therian 6 times and win 6 times and itll have 100% spl winrate, so that doesnt prove anything, rain loses to sun, it definitely loses to sand, and it loses to snow or veils the hardest, and thats with the slightest water resist, the second thing u learn when structuring cores is to have a solid water resist, so ground type + water resist should defeat any rain if played well,its not like wake where it forces a bulky water + fairy, which is way more restricting than archaludon, just because a pokemon is doing well on rain and it annoys people they want it gone, thats the softest thing ive ever heard, thats a biased subjective decision and does nothing for the future of this tier, all the comments on GOAT pokeaim videos are trashing the council for this suspect, even someone on the council was against it, it speaks volumes as to how unnecessary this suspect was, catering to spl instead of the majoriy and the better of the meta as a whole, every 2 weeks theres a survey, ive had hundreds of friends quit because of it, let the metagame adapt and see if it remains a problem u get like 3-4 years per gen theres more than enough time, look at kyurem, it just isnt as good as people think it is if anything it forces people to run good teams instead of cheese.
- It forces good building habits, have a solid ground and water resist or immune off the bat, which is 2 of the fundamentals of teambuilding, and if that doesnt scream healthy i dont know what is, its overall a positive influence on the meta, if anything its preventing the use of uu mons in ou, just play uu if u wanna use shitmons, or limit ur shitmons to 1 per game.
- Nobody complained when sun got 5000 buffs this gen, as soon as rain got its buff people are mad, we cannot be biased against playstyles its not good tiering practice, if sun gets to thrive so does rain, veils is amazing too veils is better than any arch rain rn, if people would care to explore it like they explored sleep, its forcing u to explore new archetypes like sand and veils which is overall super healthy for a developing metagame, banning pokemon because you think its broken isnt an excuse, its making the metagame less boring with each ban, then they wanna complain about balance and how balance is the strongest, we ban the balance breakers, of course its the strongest, but id have to disagree with someones point when they said balance is easy to counter if it is then you have not built it right the whole idea behind the style is to balance the team out with the right amount of offense, defense, and pivoting, which == the best playstyle.
-the only rains i face are hardstuck 1700s players, rain is scarce on the high ladder mainly because of its inconsistency and ability to easily be stopped by a random tera, so 90% spl winrate, 10% ladder winrate, 0% winrate vs me, i dont even consider preparing for archaludon or rain, ill use an ho with no water resist sometimes, and ill still beat every archaludon, and people want to ban it?, I think even iron moth is dumber than arch, one fiery dance boost and iron moth gets 3 kills if u dont have ting lu, also garganacl is dumb as hell rn, waay more restricting than archaludon but people gonna say bc its defensive dont act on it, this is not the time or place to discuss other suspects but i aint discussing other suspects im just saying these mons are dumber and people label them fine so why label archaludon broken, you hating seeing rain is no excuse, if anyone argues this i will not acknowledge you, i wont even acknowledge responses to this post i am stating my opinions and leaving.
- 1 move that is heavily reliant on an inconsistent style and 3 teammates is an absurd reason to discuss a ban on something, any weather beats it because it neutralises electro shot, this 1 move people hate, i just dont get it, if this were to get banned for this reason, it would be the worst tiering decision in recent memory, so people remember we need to vote do not ban to help the metagame in the long run, lets not be short sighted.
Conclusion: I will be voting do not ban on archaludon as i feel a strong sentiment on this stance, dont ask me for teams or dont talk to me if ur gonna blindly vote ban here without making solid counter arguments for every single point i have, responses to this post will not be acknowledged i encourage people to make healthy tiering decisions and vote do not ban, thank you for your time and have a good day/night.
Thank you Storm Zone. I completely agree with your post and will be doing my part in keeping the GOAT in the tier.Hello everyone, i would like to take the time to back up the goat CTC , address the suspect of archaludon and state my opinions on it and why i strongly believe it is balanced:
- The only set people ever complain about is a set that is heavily reliant on 3 teammates, yes you need 3 teammates, iron treads for momentum purposes, pelipper, and barraskewda for flip turn, if it doesnt have one of these 3, it struggles, barraskewda is needed for the speed, if not, threats that outspeed archaludon threaten it, aka offensive tusk, offensive lando, destiny bond valiant, tera ground blast iron moth, any offensive ground ever, and if the tera is forced that is a penalty that will allow it to be revenge killed later on, i do not think rain is a consistent playstyle, there are tons of threats that put a stop to rain like dnite, roaring moon, kyurem, specs pult, gastrodon, clodsire, Hippowdon sand which i recently topped the ladder with while facing no rains, which proves its not only good for countering rain but for being anti meta as a whole, hippo sand is good into every style rn, and it hard counters rain, so with these large variety of counters, i strongly believe archaludon is good but its not great or game breaking, its not reverse sweeping literally any team with fallen5, im not saying gambit is broken but i cant deny that its way stronger than this fucking bridge, same with gouging and raging bolt, they all are better and arent even broken on their own.
- Its stabs are not spammable in this meta, flash cannon resisted by volcarona, heatran, and any water, ik people gonna bring up electro shot to counter argue this, the first thing you learn when you are learning how to structure a team is to always have a solid ground type, an electric resist because the pivot move volt switch exists, and ground types are stronger than ever this gen, like ting lu, great tusk, clodsire, lando, they all beat archaludon, in another point i will list all the counterplay to archaludon, but what i mean by non spammable stabs, is that people seem to have insomnia, didnt people cry like toddlers for walking wake to be quickbanned when it first came out? We adapted so nicely to walking wake that it was never discussed again , and i find that walking wake was way harder to adjust to than archaludon, i think people will adapt much more easily to archaludon in the future and the rain hype will die soon, remember you being sick of rain =/= it being broken, thats your problem, you dont make tiering decisions because you hate something, you make it for the betterment of the metagame, in the longterm, the ones that are advocating the archaludon ban are the most short sighted i have ever seen, you dont think it through long term or you havent been around long enough to watch an entire tier evolve and adapt till the next generation, so i would say make the right decisions and stand with me to vote do not ban you will thank me later because the metagame is still developing.
- The List of counterplay to archaludon is long as hell:
1. Hippowdon (its good i faced every team but rain and still topped ladder which proves its good without countering rain)
2. Clodsire
3. Ting Lu
4. Great Tusk
5. Landorus Therian
6. Tera ground iron moth
7. Garchomp
8. Destiny bond or cc iron valiant
9. Zamazenta (it forces tera for a revenge kill later on)
10. Superpower wellspring
11. Sash hex pult cripples it or specs tera ghost pult kills it
12. Lategame tera gambit
13. Qd tera ground volcarona
14. Tera ground volcanion
15. Twave galar slowking or chilly reception in general to reset weather
16. Tera cm raging bolt
17. Kyurem
18. Even glimmora 1v1s
19. Dd roaring moon (forces tera)
20. Torkoal and sun
21. Walking wake (fucks rain in general)
22. Opposing archaludon
23. Iron treads
24. Mirror coat tera fairy spdef alomomola(with prough to hit moon)
25. Sd high horse power rillaboom(which just beats rain lol what a joke)
As u can see this is way more counterplay than gambit, raging bolt, gouging fire or walking wake will ever have, the meta has adapted to those very nicely, but hey who knows... Uhh gee " if its banned ill make 20 posts crying or go on twitter or go in discord servers and complain about the guy who made only 1 post on it and dipped!! " sorry had to do my impression of the bird as a joke, they refer to birds as girls where i live ok back on track, let me get to my next point.
- Rain loses to any other weather, it remains the most inconsistent weather, and i used to think about spl winrate to disprove this point but by that logic, someone can bring enamorus therian 6 times and win 6 times and itll have 100% spl winrate, so that doesnt prove anything, rain loses to sun, it definitely loses to sand, and it loses to snow or veils the hardest, and thats with the slightest water resist, the second thing u learn when structuring cores is to have a solid water resist, so ground type + water resist should defeat any rain if played well,its not like wake where it forces a bulky water + fairy, which is way more restricting than archaludon, just because a pokemon is doing well on rain and it annoys people they want it gone, thats the softest thing ive ever heard, thats a biased subjective decision and does nothing for the future of this tier, all the comments on GOAT pokeaim videos are trashing the council for this suspect, even someone on the council was against it, it speaks volumes as to how unnecessary this suspect was, catering to spl instead of the majoriy and the better of the meta as a whole, every 2 weeks theres a survey, ive had hundreds of friends quit because of it, let the metagame adapt and see if it remains a problem u get like 3-4 years per gen theres more than enough time, look at kyurem, it just isnt as good as people think it is if anything it forces people to run good teams instead of cheese.
- It forces good building habits, have a solid ground and water resist or immune off the bat, which is 2 of the fundamentals of teambuilding, and if that doesnt scream healthy i dont know what is, its overall a positive influence on the meta, if anything its preventing the use of uu mons in ou, just play uu if u wanna use shitmons, or limit ur shitmons to 1 per game.
- Nobody complained when sun got 5000 buffs this gen, as soon as rain got its buff people are mad, we cannot be biased against playstyles its not good tiering practice, if sun gets to thrive so does rain, veils is amazing too veils is better than any arch rain rn, if people would care to explore it like they explored sleep, its forcing u to explore new archetypes like sand and veils which is overall super healthy for a developing metagame, banning pokemon because you think its broken isnt an excuse, its making the metagame less boring with each ban, then they wanna complain about balance and how balance is the strongest, we ban the balance breakers, of course its the strongest, but id have to disagree with someones point when they said balance is easy to counter if it is then you have not built it right the whole idea behind the style is to balance the team out with the right amount of offense, defense, and pivoting, which == the best playstyle.
-the only rains i face are hardstuck 1700s players, rain is scarce on the high ladder mainly because of its inconsistency and ability to easily be stopped by a random tera, so 90% spl winrate, 10% ladder winrate, 0% winrate vs me, i dont even consider preparing for archaludon or rain, ill use an ho with no water resist sometimes, and ill still beat every archaludon, and people want to ban it?, I think even iron moth is dumber than arch, one fiery dance boost and iron moth gets 3 kills if u dont have ting lu, also garganacl is dumb as hell rn, waay more restricting than archaludon but people gonna say bc its defensive dont act on it, this is not the time or place to discuss other suspects but i aint discussing other suspects im just saying these mons are dumber and people label them fine so why label archaludon broken, you hating seeing rain is no excuse, if anyone argues this i will not acknowledge you, i wont even acknowledge responses to this post i am stating my opinions and leaving.
- 1 move that is heavily reliant on an inconsistent style and 3 teammates is an absurd reason to discuss a ban on something, any weather beats it because it neutralises electro shot, this 1 move people hate, i just dont get it, if this were to get banned for this reason, it would be the worst tiering decision in recent memory, so people remember we need to vote do not ban to help the metagame in the long run, lets not be short sighted.
Conclusion: I will be voting do not ban on archaludon as i feel a strong sentiment on this stance, dont ask me for teams or dont talk to me if ur gonna blindly vote ban here without making solid counter arguments for every single point i have, responses to this post will not be acknowledged i encourage people to make healthy tiering decisions and vote do not ban, thank you for your time and have a good day/night.
They said that kyurem and gimmora is part of the counterplay to Arch, which if you look at the calcs, ain't actually counters. Most of the counters they show cannot switch into it and do not ko it from full. They also say it is the most inconsistent weather because it loses to other weathers which is, just plain wrong. Like I had to double check it to make sure. Sand it destroys just due to water being super effective against it and sand only really having drill to abuse it, snow it struggles a bit against but again only really cetitan and kyurem can abuse it, and arch helps a lot with kyurem so there is that, and sun it does quite well against due to torkoal being extremely pressured against the water assault, while raging bolt which would be a bad matchup is countered by treads, with walking wake being the only thing that can even contend with rain.Wait. There's actually high level players that disagree that Arch is broken and have somewhat valid reason to it?
Storm Zone's the goddamned goat, I agree with everything he said, even the part where he started wandering off talking about birds being referred to as girls where he's from. DNB.Hello everyone, i would like to take the time to back up the goat CTC , address the suspect of archaludon and state my opinions on it and why i strongly believe it is balanced:
- The only set people ever complain about is a set that is heavily reliant on 3 teammates, yes you need 3 teammates, iron treads for momentum purposes, pelipper, and barraskewda for flip turn, if it doesnt have one of these 3, it struggles, barraskewda is needed for the speed, if not, threats that outspeed archaludon threaten it, aka offensive tusk, offensive lando, destiny bond valiant, tera ground blast iron moth, any offensive ground ever, and if the tera is forced that is a penalty that will allow it to be revenge killed later on, i do not think rain is a consistent playstyle, there are tons of threats that put a stop to rain like dnite, roaring moon, kyurem, specs pult, gastrodon, clodsire, Hippowdon sand which i recently topped the ladder with while facing no rains, which proves its not only good for countering rain but for being anti meta as a whole, hippo sand is good into every style rn, and it hard counters rain, so with these large variety of counters, i strongly believe archaludon is good but its not great or game breaking, its not reverse sweeping literally any team with fallen5, im not saying gambit is broken but i cant deny that its way stronger than this fucking bridge, same with gouging and raging bolt, they all are better and arent even broken on their own.
- Its stabs are not spammable in this meta, flash cannon resisted by volcarona, heatran, and any water, ik people gonna bring up electro shot to counter argue this, the first thing you learn when you are learning how to structure a team is to always have a solid ground type, an electric resist because the pivot move volt switch exists, and ground types are stronger than ever this gen, like ting lu, great tusk, clodsire, lando, they all beat archaludon, in another point i will list all the counterplay to archaludon, but what i mean by non spammable stabs, is that people seem to have insomnia, didnt people cry like toddlers for walking wake to be quickbanned when it first came out? We adapted so nicely to walking wake that it was never discussed again , and i find that walking wake was way harder to adjust to than archaludon, i think people will adapt much more easily to archaludon in the future and the rain hype will die soon, remember you being sick of rain =/= it being broken, thats your problem, you dont make tiering decisions because you hate something, you make it for the betterment of the metagame, in the longterm, the ones that are advocating the archaludon ban are the most short sighted i have ever seen, you dont think it through long term or you havent been around long enough to watch an entire tier evolve and adapt till the next generation, so i would say make the right decisions and stand with me to vote do not ban you will thank me later because the metagame is still developing.
- The List of counterplay to archaludon is long as hell:
1. Hippowdon (its good i faced every team but rain and still topped ladder which proves its good without countering rain)
2. Clodsire
3. Ting Lu
4. Great Tusk
5. Landorus Therian
6. Tera ground iron moth
7. Garchomp
8. Destiny bond or cc iron valiant
9. Zamazenta (it forces tera for a revenge kill later on)
10. Superpower wellspring
11. Sash hex pult cripples it or specs tera ghost pult kills it
12. Lategame tera gambit
13. Qd tera ground volcarona
14. Tera ground volcanion
15. Twave galar slowking or chilly reception in general to reset weather
16. Tera cm raging bolt
17. Kyurem
18. Even glimmora 1v1s
19. Dd roaring moon (forces tera)
20. Torkoal and sun
21. Walking wake (fucks rain in general)
22. Opposing archaludon
23. Iron treads
24. Mirror coat tera fairy spdef alomomola(with prough to hit moon)
25. Sd high horse power rillaboom(which just beats rain lol what a joke)
As u can see this is way more counterplay than gambit, raging bolt, gouging fire or walking wake will ever have, the meta has adapted to those very nicely, but hey who knows... Uhh gee " if its banned ill make 20 posts crying or go on twitter or go in discord servers and complain about the guy who made only 1 post on it and dipped!! " sorry had to do my impression of the bird as a joke, they refer to birds as girls where i live ok back on track, let me get to my next point.
- Rain loses to any other weather, it remains the most inconsistent weather, and i used to think about spl winrate to disprove this point but by that logic, someone can bring enamorus therian 6 times and win 6 times and itll have 100% spl winrate, so that doesnt prove anything, rain loses to sun, it definitely loses to sand, and it loses to snow or veils the hardest, and thats with the slightest water resist, the second thing u learn when structuring cores is to have a solid water resist, so ground type + water resist should defeat any rain if played well,its not like wake where it forces a bulky water + fairy, which is way more restricting than archaludon, just because a pokemon is doing well on rain and it annoys people they want it gone, thats the softest thing ive ever heard, thats a biased subjective decision and does nothing for the future of this tier, all the comments on GOAT pokeaim videos are trashing the council for this suspect, even someone on the council was against it, it speaks volumes as to how unnecessary this suspect was, catering to spl instead of the majoriy and the better of the meta as a whole, every 2 weeks theres a survey, ive had hundreds of friends quit because of it, let the metagame adapt and see if it remains a problem u get like 3-4 years per gen theres more than enough time, look at kyurem, it just isnt as good as people think it is if anything it forces people to run good teams instead of cheese.
- It forces good building habits, have a solid ground and water resist or immune off the bat, which is 2 of the fundamentals of teambuilding, and if that doesnt scream healthy i dont know what is, its overall a positive influence on the meta, if anything its preventing the use of uu mons in ou, just play uu if u wanna use shitmons, or limit ur shitmons to 1 per game.
- Nobody complained when sun got 5000 buffs this gen, as soon as rain got its buff people are mad, we cannot be biased against playstyles its not good tiering practice, if sun gets to thrive so does rain, veils is amazing too veils is better than any arch rain rn, if people would care to explore it like they explored sleep, its forcing u to explore new archetypes like sand and veils which is overall super healthy for a developing metagame, banning pokemon because you think its broken isnt an excuse, its making the metagame less boring with each ban, then they wanna complain about balance and how balance is the strongest, we ban the balance breakers, of course its the strongest, but id have to disagree with someones point when they said balance is easy to counter if it is then you have not built it right the whole idea behind the style is to balance the team out with the right amount of offense, defense, and pivoting, which == the best playstyle.
-the only rains i face are hardstuck 1700s players, rain is scarce on the high ladder mainly because of its inconsistency and ability to easily be stopped by a random tera, so 90% spl winrate, 10% ladder winrate, 0% winrate vs me, i dont even consider preparing for archaludon or rain, ill use an ho with no water resist sometimes, and ill still beat every archaludon, and people want to ban it?, I think even iron moth is dumber than arch, one fiery dance boost and iron moth gets 3 kills if u dont have ting lu, also garganacl is dumb as hell rn, waay more restricting than archaludon but people gonna say bc its defensive dont act on it, this is not the time or place to discuss other suspects but i aint discussing other suspects im just saying these mons are dumber and people label them fine so why label archaludon broken, you hating seeing rain is no excuse, if anyone argues this i will not acknowledge you, i wont even acknowledge responses to this post i am stating my opinions and leaving.
- 1 move that is heavily reliant on an inconsistent style and 3 teammates is an absurd reason to discuss a ban on something, any weather beats it because it neutralises electro shot, this 1 move people hate, i just dont get it, if this were to get banned for this reason, it would be the worst tiering decision in recent memory, so people remember we need to vote do not ban to help the metagame in the long run, lets not be short sighted.
Conclusion: I will be voting do not ban on archaludon as i feel a strong sentiment on this stance, dont ask me for teams or dont talk to me if ur gonna blindly vote ban here without making solid counter arguments for every single point i have, responses to this post will not be acknowledged i encourage people to make healthy tiering decisions and vote do not ban, thank you for your time and have a good day/night.
I didn't read everything because mucho texto, but he is right, don't touch archaludon and kyurem. SUSPECT GOUGING FIRE, ROARING MOON AND RAGING BOLT or i'm going to s2gHello everyone, i would like to take the time to back up the goat CTC , address the suspect of archaludon and state my opinions on it and why i strongly believe it is balanced:
- The only set people ever complain about is a set that is heavily reliant on 3 teammates, yes you need 3 teammates, iron treads for momentum purposes, pelipper, and barraskewda for flip turn, if it doesnt have one of these 3, it struggles, barraskewda is needed for the speed, if not, threats that outspeed archaludon threaten it, aka offensive tusk, offensive lando, destiny bond valiant, tera ground blast iron moth, any offensive ground ever, and if the tera is forced that is a penalty that will allow it to be revenge killed later on, i do not think rain is a consistent playstyle, there are tons of threats that put a stop to rain like dnite, roaring moon, kyurem, specs pult, gastrodon, clodsire, Hippowdon sand which i recently topped the ladder with while facing no rains, which proves its not only good for countering rain but for being anti meta as a whole, hippo sand is good into every style rn, and it hard counters rain, so with these large variety of counters, i strongly believe archaludon is good but its not great or game breaking, its not reverse sweeping literally any team with fallen5, im not saying gambit is broken but i cant deny that its way stronger than this fucking bridge, same with gouging and raging bolt, they all are better and arent even broken on their own.
- Its stabs are not spammable in this meta, flash cannon resisted by volcarona, heatran, and any water, ik people gonna bring up electro shot to counter argue this, the first thing you learn when you are learning how to structure a team is to always have a solid ground type, an electric resist because the pivot move volt switch exists, and ground types are stronger than ever this gen, like ting lu, great tusk, clodsire, lando, they all beat archaludon, in another point i will list all the counterplay to archaludon, but what i mean by non spammable stabs, is that people seem to have insomnia, didnt people cry like toddlers for walking wake to be quickbanned when it first came out? We adapted so nicely to walking wake that it was never discussed again , and i find that walking wake was way harder to adjust to than archaludon, i think people will adapt much more easily to archaludon in the future and the rain hype will die soon, remember you being sick of rain =/= it being broken, thats your problem, you dont make tiering decisions because you hate something, you make it for the betterment of the metagame, in the longterm, the ones that are advocating the archaludon ban are the most short sighted i have ever seen, you dont think it through long term or you havent been around long enough to watch an entire tier evolve and adapt till the next generation, so i would say make the right decisions and stand with me to vote do not ban you will thank me later because the metagame is still developing.
- The List of counterplay to archaludon is long as hell:
1. Hippowdon (its good i faced every team but rain and still topped ladder which proves its good without countering rain)
2. Clodsire
3. Ting Lu
4. Great Tusk
5. Landorus Therian
6. Tera ground iron moth
7. Garchomp
8. Destiny bond or cc iron valiant
9. Zamazenta (it forces tera for a revenge kill later on)
10. Superpower wellspring
11. Sash hex pult cripples it or specs tera ghost pult kills it
12. Lategame tera gambit
13. Qd tera ground volcarona
14. Tera ground volcanion
15. Twave galar slowking or chilly reception in general to reset weather
16. Tera cm raging bolt
17. Kyurem
18. Even glimmora 1v1s
19. Dd roaring moon (forces tera)
20. Torkoal and sun
21. Walking wake (fucks rain in general)
22. Opposing archaludon
23. Iron treads
24. Mirror coat tera fairy spdef alomomola(with prough to hit moon)
25. Sd high horse power rillaboom(which just beats rain lol what a joke)
As u can see this is way more counterplay than gambit, raging bolt, gouging fire or walking wake will ever have, the meta has adapted to those very nicely, but hey who knows... Uhh gee " if its banned ill make 20 posts crying or go on twitter or go in discord servers and complain about the guy who made only 1 post on it and dipped!! " sorry had to do my impression of the bird as a joke, they refer to birds as girls where i live ok back on track, let me get to my next point.
- Rain loses to any other weather, it remains the most inconsistent weather, and i used to think about spl winrate to disprove this point but by that logic, someone can bring enamorus therian 6 times and win 6 times and itll have 100% spl winrate, so that doesnt prove anything, rain loses to sun, it definitely loses to sand, and it loses to snow or veils the hardest, and thats with the slightest water resist, the second thing u learn when structuring cores is to have a solid water resist, so ground type + water resist should defeat any rain if played well,its not like wake where it forces a bulky water + fairy, which is way more restricting than archaludon, just because a pokemon is doing well on rain and it annoys people they want it gone, thats the softest thing ive ever heard, thats a biased subjective decision and does nothing for the future of this tier, all the comments on GOAT pokeaim videos are trashing the council for this suspect, even someone on the council was against it, it speaks volumes as to how unnecessary this suspect was, catering to spl instead of the majoriy and the better of the meta as a whole, every 2 weeks theres a survey, ive had hundreds of friends quit because of it, let the metagame adapt and see if it remains a problem u get like 3-4 years per gen theres more than enough time, look at kyurem, it just isnt as good as people think it is if anything it forces people to run good teams instead of cheese.
- It forces good building habits, have a solid ground and water resist or immune off the bat, which is 2 of the fundamentals of teambuilding, and if that doesnt scream healthy i dont know what is, its overall a positive influence on the meta, if anything its preventing the use of uu mons in ou, just play uu if u wanna use shitmons, or limit ur shitmons to 1 per game.
- Nobody complained when sun got 5000 buffs this gen, as soon as rain got its buff people are mad, we cannot be biased against playstyles its not good tiering practice, if sun gets to thrive so does rain, veils is amazing too veils is better than any arch rain rn, if people would care to explore it like they explored sleep, its forcing u to explore new archetypes like sand and veils which is overall super healthy for a developing metagame, banning pokemon because you think its broken isnt an excuse, its making the metagame less boring with each ban, then they wanna complain about balance and how balance is the strongest, we ban the balance breakers, of course its the strongest, but id have to disagree with someones point when they said balance is easy to counter if it is then you have not built it right the whole idea behind the style is to balance the team out with the right amount of offense, defense, and pivoting, which == the best playstyle.
-the only rains i face are hardstuck 1700s players, rain is scarce on the high ladder mainly because of its inconsistency and ability to easily be stopped by a random tera, so 90% spl winrate, 10% ladder winrate, 0% winrate vs me, i dont even consider preparing for archaludon or rain, ill use an ho with no water resist sometimes, and ill still beat every archaludon, and people want to ban it?, I think even iron moth is dumber than arch, one fiery dance boost and iron moth gets 3 kills if u dont have ting lu, also garganacl is dumb as hell rn, waay more restricting than archaludon but people gonna say bc its defensive dont act on it, this is not the time or place to discuss other suspects but i aint discussing other suspects im just saying these mons are dumber and people label them fine so why label archaludon broken, you hating seeing rain is no excuse, if anyone argues this i will not acknowledge you, i wont even acknowledge responses to this post i am stating my opinions and leaving.
- 1 move that is heavily reliant on an inconsistent style and 3 teammates is an absurd reason to discuss a ban on something, any weather beats it because it neutralises electro shot, this 1 move people hate, i just dont get it, if this were to get banned for this reason, it would be the worst tiering decision in recent memory, so people remember we need to vote do not ban to help the metagame in the long run, lets not be short sighted.
Conclusion: I will be voting do not ban on archaludon as i feel a strong sentiment on this stance, dont ask me for teams or dont talk to me if ur gonna blindly vote ban here without making solid counter arguments for every single point i have, responses to this post will not be acknowledged i encourage people to make healthy tiering decisions and vote do not ban, thank you for your time and have a good day/night.