NOC Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Mafia - Explorers - Game Thread (Game Over!)

Celever said:
Also StupidFlandrs48 idk how keen you are to take advice from me and this is ultimately a skill that’s built up with practice (I have terrible working memory so I’m still not great at it) but I think currently a hole in your game is that you get the chronology of the game mixed up. Pushing saber or genisu or whoever for not pushing me when I was active, when I only started being active after the pushes you were talking about, weakens your case a bit.

This whole thing is NAI, since it’s either intentional or unintentional and we can’t read into that, just a word of advice anyway.

ImaginaryNeon sheets are good support for checking the chronology and he hasn’t posted one this game tho tbf
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I'm still on page 23 holup
 
Celever fighting my mech clear on neon so hard is also bothering me. Celever , I have to ask, do you just hate angleshoots on game design on principle or something? I would appreciate it if you could send me a town game where you do something similar.
 
Celever if you think genisu is town, why are scum threatened by a guy trying to vote off genisu when they can just let him take the fall and then case shane for it the next day phase?

And what the fuck are you smoking about M2H/Neon scum team? You think the D1 opener is a calculated bus???
 
JALMONT said:
i'll do you one better

here's the list of people very good at talking
af
celever
clouds
m2h
pulsar
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I am very good at imagesing
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I need to sit and think about Shane. I was previously reading his thinking on genisu as overly rigid given that his thinking on genisu was level 1 and seemed to not be considering the context of who genius is as a person. And yes, I do see this as essentially a "bad play == scum" type read. This type of thinking is common on MU based on my experience. And Shane's tone has been good and volume has been good since I woke up.
 
People are not likely to accept this from me but tommy not giving a snapread on me in entry. Legit actual scummy behavior from him. Town!Duskfall reads me as soon as he possibly can for sport. Here he basically ignored my slot outside of saying that I push him as either alignment (which is true somewhat), but why is your main attitude towards a slot you know and brag about being able to read not about their alignment but actually defensive in nature???
 
Idk man I'm not impressed w/ Tommy's entrance but it felt like he left before he could finish what he wanted to say, and it would be hard for me to base my read on him on whether he reads you or not
 
a fairy said:
laurel is not the type of person iirc to read 30 pages of early game
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That's unfortunate; because I think he's a focal talking point for today even if he's not here. At least 4 players have had differing reads on him(jalmont,clouds,duskfall,shane) and I think more posting from his end would give us a better picture of thread dynamics at least; I know he's busy with a wedding but the more the merrier, you know?
 
bluedoom said:
That's unfortunate; because I think he's a focal talking point for today even if he's not here. At least 4 players have had differing reads on him(jalmont,clouds,duskfall,shane) and I think more posting from his end would give us a better picture of thread dynamics at least; I know he's busy with a wedding but the more the merrier, you know?
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ye that's fair and i hope that im wrong but i wouldnt be surprised if laurel didnt show up until much later today (irl) with having backread maybe 5-10 pages and then jumped into convo
 
As in, I read him accurately slightly more often than would be expected if I were guessing randomly. In this case, I was talking about my historical read accuracy on tommy across past games, not my read on him in this game.
 
bluedoom said:
a fairy gun to head where's your reads at atm?
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undeveloped (i literally came up with these reads as i wrote them by going "cmon what's your read on them." and even then i still couldn't come up with reads on a couple)


a fairy - town
Alice Kazumi - haven't seen enough of, no alarm bells
bluedoom - i think you are fine currently but it wouldnt surprise me if there was at least scum between you/genisu/shane/flanders/m2h as the main driving content creation post-"vote neon" from earlier in this cycle
Celever - cant read yet
Clouds - i fully do not remember any post he's made
Duskfall98 - dependent on how he reacts to m2h's asserations
genisu - probably town. see my comments on bluedoom w.r.t. active scum
HydrogenHydreigon - has seemed fine so far
ImaginaryNeon - i would be shocked if he wasn't town
JALMONT - the less active he is the more worried i get lol
joey - i fully do not remember any post he's made
Laurel - i think his flavor stuff was legit a 'did not read op' situation and his lack of reappearance is Fine as a policy read on laurel
M2H - its hard to scumread someone who's feels like they're legit trying to be solvey without it being forced but m2h's slot is something i think im always gonna be slightly queasy about. see my comments on bluedoom w.r.t. active scum
pulsar512b - need to see more, feels like she has low posting ratio compared to normal
saberslasher11 - new player energy
Shane the Shroomish - this is the new player who actually has a ton of experience right? ive liked their solvyness attempts even if i dont really invest in the points they're making. see my comments on bluedoom w.r.t. active scum
StupidFlandrs48 - they are acting like i'd "expect" flanders to act from the like, one previous game of them i've seen. i dont know if that's good or bad. see my comments on bluedoom w.r.t. active scum
 
bluedoom said:
So my position is this: A couple of posts before your quote block about genisu, you said that you were going to post a bunch explaining a lot of your reads, but the follow up of that was a laser focus on genisu. Now this could've(and I'm sure from your perspective) likely been because you had a headache at the time of that post, however you have to admit from an outside perspective it looks agenda heavy at first glance, yeah? For me it was the lack of an actual follow up + voting at what I thought was a convenient time.
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I don't understand why you see it as an agenda for me to explain my vote. I also don't understand why focusing on one player in particular is scummy. I could explain everything I think in depth at every opportunity but it isn't particularly sustainable for me or the people reading, and focusing on people that are a topic of discussion in the moment feels natural to me.

As for the timing being convenient, how is it? It's the start of the game and there's no real longterm strategic reason for a wolf to vote anyone in the game at this juncture. It's unlikrly any early pressure won't break or bend. I don't really see why it'd be a convenient time for me to vote as a wolf since the stakes are pretty low.

I think the second post that you quoted is classically scummy yeah, but fwiw, Jalmont hasn't defended him nor has he really scumread people against genisu? I guess he voted you but then he unvoted without any explanation so dunno if it counts.
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He voted me, so I saw it as a part of a pattern. You get what I'm getting at already, though. I do think it's weird that genisu didn't try to talk to me in response to my wall and instead just buttered up a few different people who've opposed me and then joined the wagon.

For the third part, I'm going to preface this by saying my read is coloured by my experience w/ him in other non-mafia games(we've played a multifaction mafia game together and a free for all game with alliance building stuff). I think trying to vote neon off because he had beef with his game from a past game is within his line of thought as either alignment; a town!genisu that legit thinks that neon's game is bad for town fully believes in taking that beef and voting him. asking people to claim in the thread is because he literally hosted the previous game where town won by massclaiming, so I would totally buy a town!genisu wanting people to claim thinking that it can break the game.

Where I agree with you is that unvoting because his scumreads pressure him to do so looks bad; but that's the thing: I think his lack of self-awareness comes from town and not mafia. I'd personally think that newb!scum are a lot more self-conscious and worried about what they say a lot more.
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Thanks for explaining
 
a fairy said:
undeveloped (i literally came up with these reads as i wrote them by going "cmon what's your read on them." and even then i still couldn't come up with reads on a couple)


a fairy - town
Alice Kazumi - haven't seen enough of, no alarm bells
bluedoom - i think you are fine currently but it wouldnt surprise me if there was at least scum between you/genisu/shane/flanders/m2h as the main driving content creation post-"vote neon" from earlier in this cycle
Celever - cant read yet
Clouds - i fully do not remember any post he's made
Duskfall98 - dependent on how he reacts to m2h's asserations
genisu - probably town. see my comments on bluedoom w.r.t. active scum
HydrogenHydreigon - has seemed fine so far
ImaginaryNeon - i would be shocked if he wasn't town
JALMONT - the less active he is the more worried i get lol
joey - i fully do not remember any post he's made
Laurel - i think his flavor stuff was legit a 'did not read op' situation and his lack of reappearance is Fine as a policy read on laurel
M2H - its hard to scumread someone who's feels like they're legit trying to be solvey without it being forced but m2h's slot is something i think im always gonna be slightly queasy about. see my comments on bluedoom w.r.t. active scum
pulsar512b - need to see more, feels like she has low posting ratio compared to normal
saberslasher11 - new player energy
Shane the Shroomish - this is the new player who actually has a ton of experience right? ive liked their solvyness attempts even if i dont really invest in the points they're making. see my comments on bluedoom w.r.t. active scum
StupidFlandrs48 - they are acting like i'd "expect" flanders to act from the like, one previous game of them i've seen. i dont know if that's good or bad. see my comments on bluedoom w.r.t. active scum
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I'm sorry but unless reads are in a tiermaker, I can't actually read them. Doctors call me "an illiterate fucking idiot," whatever that means.
 
M2H said:
My "faulty mech" last game was spot on. My "faulty mech" this game is likely spot on.
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the mech was still wrong it just happened to involve a player who was of the right alignment. either way you talked in postgame about how crazy it is that there were no safe claims (different to safeclaims lmao) and not having town roles that can be angleshot as town immediately is a part of scum having safe claims.
M2H said:
Celever fighting my mech clear on neon so hard is also bothering me. Celever , I have to ask, do you just hate angleshoots on game design on principle or something? I would appreciate it if you could send me a town game where you do something similar.
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we went through a slew of open setup games, this + last game are relatively rare in recent Smogon history lol. There was a game where I argued that scum announcer is feasible though when people wanted to clear Neon based on being announcer D1.

I think people mech clear Neon because they don't wanna try to read him sometimes.
 
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