NOC Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Mafia - Explorers - Game Thread (Game Over!)

Alice Kazumi said:
I mean we kind need to vote out mafia not town if you are one of them... I don't think you being voted out gived us good info unlike shane/celever/jalmont so please be scared.
I townread flanders because he acts exactly the same as when we were masons, I don't think his style is easy to simulate as scum when he is a newbie but I may be wrong. I don't know yet if celever is using him or they are both town. I think the fishy part is on Shane-Celever-A fairy.
I dont like A fairy saying that Shane looks worse. the only thing I got from that exchange is that
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what is your position on the bolded and why?
 
the big ego fights are very often just town fighting will mafia stirs the pot and sits back and lets town get mad at each other, and the bigger the game the more likely it's to happen I feel
 
bluedoom said:
Duskfall98 was going to ask how you felt about shane vs celever because ik you thought that such a situation would be where mafia are on either side but you also read shane/cel as t/t
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I think clever is townier in emotion, but the content can be town on either side and is the perfect situation mafia loved to prop up as tvs and fuel, but not commit as they let town lead votes for them and it lets their strategy remain super fluid

I'm not saying I'm 100 percent certain it's tvt, but neither is someone I'd want to be voting today as of now
 
even if clever Vs Shane had mafia in it, it's not going to be like a town side Vs a mafia side because I don't see most players this game hard defending a partner so hard when it's likely either of them will flip this game at some point
 
Duskfall98 said:
I've no strong thoughts on her play this game
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I asked it because she seems in line with what you said about the way mafia can act on big ego fights.
She seems weirdly proactive sometimes like the no massclaim thing but goes with the wagons blindly? It can be she used the massclaim argument to make m2h presence weaker this game. I'd say it's working because m2h presence is actually weaker this game.
 
Alice Kazumi said:
I asked it because she seems in line with what you said about the way mafia can act on big ego fights.
She seems weirdly proactive sometimes like the no massclaim thing but goes with the wagons blindly? It can be she used the massclaim argument to make m2h presence weaker this game. I'd say it's working because m2h presence is actually weaker this game.
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no mass claim is just the correct play ftr, on an optimal mechanical gameplay perspective

in what way do you think she's making m2h presence weaker?
 
Duskfall98 said:
no mass claim is just the correct play ftr, on an optimal mechanical gameplay perspective

in what way do you think she's making m2h presence weaker?
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I also think that massclaim is the correct play, I agreed with you back then.

M2H was the one suggesting it, read af posts to see her being very agressive when she was more passive most of the game.

I may be thinking too much out of it...But I can't get out of my head her using us to make her seem as town after her way of handling the cel-shane discussion
 
(I actually think if anyone has been the strongest voice on anti claimness, it's me)

and I'm not sure how this like links into clever Vs Shane dynamic
 
Duskfall98 said:
I think clever is townier in emotion, but the content can be town on either side and is the perfect situation mafia loved to prop up as tvs and fuel, but not commit as they let town lead votes for them and it lets their strategy remain super fluid

I'm not saying I'm 100 percent certain it's tvt, but neither is someone I'd want to be voting today as of now
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Its weird because I think most of the discussion revolving around them has been thinking of it as t v s so even if you were to tell me that mafia strategy is to drum it up as t v s I wouldn't know whether to begin
 
Alice Kazumi said:
I also think that massclaim is the correct play, I agreed with you back then.

M2H was the one suggesting it, read af posts to see her being very agressive when she was more passive most of the game.

I may be thinking too much out of it...But I can't get out of my head her using us to make her seem as town after her way of handling the cel-shane discussion
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sorry, I'm saying mass claim is a bad idea, and have been super anti against it (and am in general)

mass claim is a bad idea, as most games are designed so that mass claim can't win, but also is punished

if mass claim was a viable strategy, then town would win most games since you can just claim and win mehancially, mechanical lock wins are something experienced players can develop to solve after they play for a while, so if it is possible to just rely on mechanics to win then town always wins, as there is no check to an experienced player just playing it out perfect or near perfect

m2h can solve a game for sure, and they played well last game 100 percent, but it's not really a let's nerf m2h they will solve the Mechanics, there are many people in this game that could spot a mech win if it existed, Charlie knows that as does any experienced host, so that means it jusr doesn't exist (and never does)

the overwhelming likelihood of we mass claim is we run into mafia anti claim mechanics, or give them the power to just take out our strongest roles with some power THEY have, which we won't know they have because they have been given fake reliable claims to tell us
 
Duskfall98 said:
Celever what's your thoughts on that, talking about how hard he's defending you re: shane
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I think it swings town. Last game he was kinda tunnelly by this point in the game, and he obviously townreads me (correctly! And more people should!) so I think it legitimately coloured his perception of the arguments and made him share in my frustration of Shane’s bad points. I think the emotional / subconscious element of that is harder to think to emulate during your first mafia game, and that kind of high level play doesn’t really exist in among us.

He’s certainly openly buddying me. I’m always paranoid about getting pocketed, but I think it’s unlikelier when to pocket me Flandrs would have to hitch his wagon to the player towards the bottom of the pool. It’s certainly plausible — I am much likelier to be voted out before Flandrs and if he’s scum he looks good when I am, and I had fewer people willing to bounce ideas with me so he gains more severe influence over me than if he went with the flock — but again I don’t see him as necessarily being a player who would be thinking of these high strategy level pocketing dynamics. When I’m mafia I don’t even bother to deep that stuff lol and it’s certainly not enough to shake my townread of him that pre-dated the buddying anyway.
 
you may be right about the cel-shane discussion though Alice, about fairy, but it's very hard to say because there's so many people involved and interacting with it in different ways that could lean either way, and the difficulty to solve who is town or mafia off it is why mafia loves those type of dynamics so much

but again I have to say one of them could be mafia, I may be wrong but tvt scenarios like this is common
 
Duskfall98 said:
sorry, I'm saying mass claim is a bad idea, and have been super anti against it (and am in general)

mass claim is a bad idea, as most games are designed so that mass claim can't win, but also is punished

if mass claim was a viable strategy, then town would win most games since you can just claim and win mehancially, mechanical lock wins are something experienced players can develop to solve after they play for a while, so if it is possible to just rely on mechanics to win then town always wins, as there is no check to an experienced player just playing it out perfect or near perfect

m2h can solve a game for sure, and they played well last game 100 percent, but it's not really a let's nerf m2h they will solve the Mechanics, there are many people in this game that could spot a mech win if it existed, Charlie knows that as does any experienced host, so that means it jusr doesn't exist (and never does)

the overwhelming likelihood of we mass claim is we run into mafia anti claim mechanics, or give them the power to just take out our strongest roles with some power THEY have, which we won't know they have because they have been given fake reliable claims to tell us
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My bad I meant against massclaim. If you saw my post I already agreed with you back then
 
bluedoom said:
Its weird because I think most of the discussion revolving around them has been thinking of it as t v s so even if you were to tell me that mafia strategy is to drum it up as t v s I wouldn't know whether to begin
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yeah that's why it's so strong, usually if something like this happens when I'm mafia I just consider it auto won game it's so hard to break out as town in time, before doing too much damage and then also build a solidish towncore
 
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