NOC Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Mafia - Explorers - Game Thread (Game Over!)

a fairy said:
" you don't have much game impact "

if this is bc i haven't claimed or been a part of debate club then so be it. i was a part of multiple major discussions, have posted full read lists, was the catalyst for the d1 jalmont wagon, etc. i think it's perfectly fair to me to question my inclusion on that list over someone like laurel tommy or joey (tbf they posted the list)
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tbh i didn't even know you started the jalmont wagon. thats kinda big if true, but still I'm talking in more of an impressionistic sense of me reading the thread. not so much in an objective sense. yes you've been in the thread and done stuff, but I haven't seen you vote d2 really, your role in the shane/celever stuff mostly just seemed like being an intermediary and tbh i can't rule you out as a partner to either shane or celever for it. you have a lot of interactions I :worrywhirl: at such as with Shane/Celever/Laurel/Flanders. Main reasoning for you is just you fit on a lot of teams, haven't really said a whole lot that isn't easily copy-able for a decent scum player, and I don't really have a better prospect besides maybe genisu. Alice I think makes sense as scum in some worlds and I think Shane and Celever do have a good bit of scum equity individually but really unless I want to full tinfoil here and go back to my Shane/Clouds/JALMONT/Laurel solve I think voting you is ok here.
 
Celever said:
I think there are a few things that could inform this obtuseness.

For one, usually mafia will have some kind of protection if there’s a vig in the game. Hypothetically, you would be skilled enough to identify that scum have no protection and therefore there’s unlikely to be a vig to CC you. Alternatively, you thought that being obtuse set you up well in the event that the real vig CCed you after seeing that there wasn’t a second kill on N1, because the other vig failed to. It could be an asset to have to claim why your vig failed second.

You wouldn’t make up a result because you could get reasonably found during a massclaim. Again this would depend on you being scum and assessing your team’s roles. Maybe it’s that you don’t have a roleblocker and so expected there would be one on town, for instance. You don’t really want to claim blocked and end up in a 1v1 with a town roleblocker who didn’t target you, which would have happened.

My point is that I don’t think you’re a vig and a lot of my scumleaning is that that has to be treated as a scum strategy or otherwise mafia becomes unplayable lol. Even if you are a vig, I do think that not shooting N1 is wild based on your positioning. For all of these “if I were scum I wouldn’t do x” hypotheticals you’ve come up with, which are never truly comprehensive, I’d like it if instead you made a “if I were town vig in my position I wouldn’t shoot night 1” case. You’ve said that statement before I believe, but I still don’t understand why you wouldn’t.
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Your first scenario makes no sense if I am mafia then obviously I know what roles the mafia have - unless you just slipped and are confirming mafia have a teammate outside their chat. HMMMM

second scenario, instead of “could” please explain just 1 scenario where it would be an asset to claim second instead of first.

If you really believed I wasn’t a vigi then you would think I would outright claim I didn’t shoot and yet I haven’t and continue to not do that. Your argument boils down to “I think you are lying so you should be voted” which I don’t really think is a consistent position you have held which makes it disingenuous to me but feel free to disprove that I haven’t done the research. Again, you are so concerned about my supposed “lie” which is just a lie by omission at worst, when you are equally guilty because you haven’t claimed!!!!

See Joey’s post re: concluding thoughts. Again I have historically been one of the most anti-hero shooters on this site.
 
M2H said:
tbh i didn't even know you started the jalmont wagon. thats kinda big if true, but still I'm talking in more of an impressionistic sense of me reading the thread. not so much in an objective sense. yes you've been in the thread and done stuff, but I haven't seen you vote d2 really, your role in the shane/celever stuff mostly just seemed like being an intermediary and tbh i can't rule you out as a partner to either shane or celever for it. you have a lot of interactions I :worrywhirl: at such as with Shane/Celever/Laurel/Flanders. Main reasoning for you is just you fit on a lot of teams, haven't really said a whole lot that isn't easily copy-able for a decent scum player, and I don't really have a better prospect besides maybe genisu. Alice I think makes sense as scum in some worlds and I think Shane and Celever do have a good bit of scum equity individually but really unless I want to full tinfoil here and go back to my Shane/Clouds/JALMONT/Laurel solve I think voting you is ok here.
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She did not, my wallpost against jalmont was more important

Also shane/clouds/jalmont/laurel is way too powerscummy a solve even by my standards so yeah let's stay off of that for now
 
I mean I'm not saying you should have hero shot, BUT if I'm vig there I'm vigging Celever as the objective, responsible vig play. In the same way that I vigged skipper instead of hero shooting last game. It's kinda just what you do.
 
The fact that both Flanders and celever are approaching me with the same argument bothers me and it’s really tough not to get stuck in the “everyone who suspects me is mafia” trap
 
a fairy said:
" you don't have much game impact "

if this is bc i haven't claimed or been a part of debate club then so be it. i was a part of multiple major discussions, have posted full read lists, was the catalyst for the d1 jalmont wagon, etc. i think it's perfectly fair to me to question my inclusion on that list over someone like laurel tommy or joey (tbf they posted the list)
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I am also cop cleared
 
StupidFlandrs48 said:
She did not, my wallpost against jalmont was more important

Also shane/clouds/jalmont/laurel is way too powerscummy a solve even by my standards so yeah let's stay off of that for now
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its either that or fmpov it has to be celev/shane + 3 already shaded slots.

tbf I do have multiple reasons to go for genisu on mech and pragmatism, while also not really town reading him. I think that is the "optimal" play if I want to ignore tinfoil thoughts. And yeah, as dumb as it would be to vote town mayor it would be even dumber to vote a cop with a vest right now.
 
M2H said:
its either that or fmpov it has to be celev/shane + 3 already shaded slots.
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Entirely reasonable take

M2H said:
tbf I do have multiple reasons to go for genisu on mech and pragmatism, while also not really town reading him. I think that is the "optimal" play if I want to ignore tinfoil thoughts. And yeah, as dumb as it would be to vote town mayor it would be even dumber to vote a cop with a vest right now.
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Did you vote genisu already I forgor
 
M2H said:
I mean I'm not saying you should have hero shot, BUT if I'm vig there I'm vigging Celever as the objective, responsible vig play. In the same way that I vigged skipper instead of hero shooting last game. It's kinda just what you do.
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the guy who thinks we should not vote D1, and has a long time meta of such opinion, is probably the likeliest person to not shoot n1 to be fair

you're all still missing something obvious regardless and just trust my shield on jalmont for just today, I am cop checked town so I deserve at least that
 
joey said:
is it really that surprising that someone whose entire day 1 game is saying "we shouldn't vote anyone so everyone has a chance to play the game" doesn't shoot someone n1 as vig
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He almost got voted out and only stayed because of the vig claim. Confirming that vig by shooting really is the only valid strategy in the aftermath of that.
 
im willing to share [credit/responsibility] for the jalmont wagon.

again, im fine with being scumread, im fine with being voted. im not fine with my impact being disregarded just because people gloss over my posts (literally nobody interfaced with my reads list aside laurel unvoting me for it) or because i dont place early-in-cycle votes
 
Duskfall98 said:
the guy who thinks we should not vote D1, and has a long time meta of such opinion, is probably the likeliest person to not shoot n1 to be fair

you're all still missing something obvious regardless and just trust my shield on jalmont for just today, I am cop checked town so I deserve at least that
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okay sure. would love to chat about it with you or jalmont if bluedoom pairs us but yeah im pretty dense when im not an utter genius so sure.

the thing is, if jalmont is town and you are town, I guess Clouds could still be maf? but outside of that possibility the game feels like its practically over. marth t, m2h t, jalmont t, clouds prob t, you t. plus we get another cop shot, and a vig shot (actually bluedoom should probably connect clouds and jalmont so they can coordinate who gets copped and who gets vigged!) and ofc i get a roleblock as well. I'm kinda just shocked at the idea that the town is in this dominant in a position on d2 after a shitty d1.
 
Celever said:
Mmm ok

I feel like you should be voting Hydro instead of genisu based on your past progression in this thread. Why genisu?
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you already asked me my thoughts on hydro, did you read?

I'd consider a fairy over genisu but honestly genisu has done little to try help town today, besides trying to claim town for having a role, I'd also consider Shane tbh
 
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