Muk is also bar none the best Calm Mind Knock Off clefable check stall can offer.
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Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread - (update on post #1002))
- Thread starter ausma
- Start date
doing this because we have reached midseason for SPL, too much glazing in this thread
from B ---> B-
A lot of argument will be based on around usage, win percent, and what it has actually done in these games, because you gotta take in all the context to truly understand something. It has 1.88% usage and only 1 out of 3 wins, and if you watch the replays you'll see that AT MOST it gets 1 or 2 knock offs into mostly unimportant stuff and it dies
from B+ ---> C
Speaking of usage and win percent, this has 17 games, and has won 10 of them! Which mean this has a 10.63% usage with a 58.82% which, sounds like a solid upper midcarder in the OU sphere, until you actually watch the games, and see that what it actually does is click U-turn a couple of times and that's pretty much it, except that fucking Eternal Spirit vs Mada game which was a complete embarrassment. Not to mention it's terrible in this Ghold/Lu/dnite meta because you can't stop gholdengo from blocking you, by extension, you can't really stop ting lu from setting, you can only check dnite. You essentially use this if you want a glorified U-turn, just for that reason alone I'm gonna put it in C- instead of my usual F ranking but the reason I keep putting corv down is that the second I leave this community the next month is gonna be this thing in A+ because I know you people
from A+ ---> A
My hottest take of the post by far, but hear me out, pult in SPL right now it has an 18.13% usage with a 44.83% win rate, this means 29 games but only 13 won. My opinion as to why is because of the rising of Pecharunt and the rising of Gholdengo lately, both having recover and better bulk, which is suited for longer battles. Now, dragapult HAS a niche that neither gholdengo nor pecharunt can replicate, which is his high speed and access to will-o-wisp, but has been more and more clear that it has a supporting role these days due to its lack of power and ting lu being everywhere, don't get me wrong, the support it provides is ACTUALLY GOOD because unlike corviknight, you can actually shoot down dnite proactively, but it has taken more of a silent backseat these days. I'm aware that there have been a few attempts to use specs pult again, which solves its lack of power buts its lack of boots + move lock makes it trickier to use than ever, still, not a bad mon in the slightest and its still scary, just not his best moment
from A+ ---> A-
This thing was always a permanent A- pick idk why it got moved, but now dnite + ting lu are everywhere to laugh at it offensively and defensively
from A- ----> A
Magcargo was right all along, we lost
For real tho, this thing is tricky to catch, the thing with this is that every move in his kit can be pivoted in and exploited, but to do that you have to be the better player every time, while the pecha user only has to use parting shot if he doesn't really know and only wants to dissociate. And while Kingambit is the hardest pecha counter in the tier, the fact that it always has to be at +1.5 at best instead of a +2 to break is irritating sometimes, not to mention that while you are forced to use tera dark, tera dark pecharunt is one of the best answers to tera fairy tera blast kingambit because bulky variants die to Malignant chain and +3 sucker punch only kills via crit, and tera fairy tera blast kingambit is really good vs the meta right, which is why people use pecharunt and sometimes zama together to full proof its chances, it requires tera yes, but it's better than being swept from turn 1
from B -----> B+
This is what being in a gen where toxapex is not broken for once does to a mf
I know there's a lot to talk about right now, but these were the ones I felt most passionate about
from B ---> B-A lot of argument will be based on around usage, win percent, and what it has actually done in these games, because you gotta take in all the context to truly understand something. It has 1.88% usage and only 1 out of 3 wins, and if you watch the replays you'll see that AT MOST it gets 1 or 2 knock offs into mostly unimportant stuff and it dies
from B+ ---> CSpeaking of usage and win percent, this has 17 games, and has won 10 of them! Which mean this has a 10.63% usage with a 58.82% which, sounds like a solid upper midcarder in the OU sphere, until you actually watch the games, and see that what it actually does is click U-turn a couple of times and that's pretty much it, except that fucking Eternal Spirit vs Mada game which was a complete embarrassment. Not to mention it's terrible in this Ghold/Lu/dnite meta because you can't stop gholdengo from blocking you, by extension, you can't really stop ting lu from setting, you can only check dnite. You essentially use this if you want a glorified U-turn, just for that reason alone I'm gonna put it in C- instead of my usual F ranking but the reason I keep putting corv down is that the second I leave this community the next month is gonna be this thing in A+ because I know you people
from A+ ---> AMy hottest take of the post by far, but hear me out, pult in SPL right now it has an 18.13% usage with a 44.83% win rate, this means 29 games but only 13 won. My opinion as to why is because of the rising of Pecharunt and the rising of Gholdengo lately, both having recover and better bulk, which is suited for longer battles. Now, dragapult HAS a niche that neither gholdengo nor pecharunt can replicate, which is his high speed and access to will-o-wisp, but has been more and more clear that it has a supporting role these days due to its lack of power and ting lu being everywhere, don't get me wrong, the support it provides is ACTUALLY GOOD because unlike corviknight, you can actually shoot down dnite proactively, but it has taken more of a silent backseat these days. I'm aware that there have been a few attempts to use specs pult again, which solves its lack of power buts its lack of boots + move lock makes it trickier to use than ever, still, not a bad mon in the slightest and its still scary, just not his best moment
from A+ ---> A-This thing was always a permanent A- pick idk why it got moved, but now dnite + ting lu are everywhere to laugh at it offensively and defensively
from A- ----> AMagcargo was right all along, we lost
For real tho, this thing is tricky to catch, the thing with this is that every move in his kit can be pivoted in and exploited, but to do that you have to be the better player every time, while the pecha user only has to use parting shot if he doesn't really know and only wants to dissociate. And while Kingambit is the hardest pecha counter in the tier, the fact that it always has to be at +1.5 at best instead of a +2 to break is irritating sometimes, not to mention that while you are forced to use tera dark, tera dark pecharunt is one of the best answers to tera fairy tera blast kingambit because bulky variants die to Malignant chain and +3 sucker punch only kills via crit, and tera fairy tera blast kingambit is really good vs the meta right, which is why people use pecharunt and sometimes zama together to full proof its chances, it requires tera yes, but it's better than being swept from turn 1
from B -----> B+This is what being in a gen where toxapex is not broken for once does to a mf
I know there's a lot to talk about right now, but these were the ones I felt most passionate about
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Corviknight C- is arguably the worst take of all time, and that includes whatever seraphyde is on. Even everything else aside, Toxapex and Clodsire are still ranked in the B sphere due to being used on stall. Corviknight is a damn A-Tier on stall, just below those two, and it's also useful on balance as an anti-ground type pivot able to answer Dragonite, Gliscor, Great Tusk, and more with Iron Defense sets. It's also a decent secondary removal option. What are you on?doing this because we have reached midseason for SPL, too much glazing in this thread
A lot of argument will be based on around usage, win percent, and what it has actually done in these games, because you gotta take in all the context to truly understand something. It has 1.88% usage and only 1 out of 3 wins, and if you watch the replays you'll see that AT MOST it gets 1 or 2 knock offs into mostly unimportant stuff and it dies
Speaking of usage and win percent, this has 17 games, and has won 10 of them! Which mean this has a 10.63% usage with a 58.82% which, sounds like a solid upper midcarder in the OU sphere, until you actually watch the games, and see that what it actually does is click U-turn a couple of times and that's pretty much it, except that fucking Eternal Spirit vs Mada game which was a complete embarrassment. Not to mention it's terrible in this Ghold/Lu/dnite meta because you can't stop gholdengo from blocking you, by extension, you can't really stop ting lu from setting, you can only check dnite. You essentially use this if you want a glorified U-turn, just for that reason alone I'm gonna put it in C- instead of my usual F ranking but the reason I keep putting corv down is that the second I leave this community the next month is gonna be this thing in A+ because I know you people
My hottest take of the post by far, but hear me out, pult in SPL right now it has an 18.13% usage with a 44.83% win rate, this means 29 games but only 13 won. My opinion as to why is because of the rising of Pecharunt and the rising of Gholdengo lately, both having recover and better bulk, which is suited for longer battles. Now, dragapult HAS a niche that neither gholdengo nor pecharunt can replicate, which is his high speed and access to will-o-wisp, but has been more and more clear that it has a supporting role these days due to its lack of power and ting lu being everywhere, don't get me wrong, the support it provides is ACTUALLY GOOD because unlike corviknight, you can actually shoot down dnite proactively, but it has taken more of a silent backseat these days. I'm aware that there have been a few attempts to use specs pult again, which solves its lack of power buts its lack of boots + move lock makes it trickier to use than ever, still, not a bad mon in the slightest and its still scary, just not his best moment
This thing was always a permanent A- pick idk why it got moved, but now dnite + ting lu are everywhere to laugh at it offensively and defensively
Magcargo was right all along, we lost
For real tho, this thing is tricky to catch, the thing with this is that every move in his kit can be pivoted in and exploited, but to do that you have to be the better player every time, while the pecha user only has to use parting shot if he doesn't really know and only wants to dissociate. And while Kingambit is the hardest pecha counter in the tier, the fact that it always has to be at +1.5 at best instead of a +2 to break is irritating sometimes, not to mention that while you are forced to use tera dark, tera dark pecharunt is one of the best answers to tera fairy tera blast kingambit because bulky variants die to Malignant chain and +3 sucker punch only kills via crit, and tera fairy tera blast kingambit is really good vs the meta right, which is why people use pecharunt and sometimes zama together to full proof its chances, it requires tera yes, but it's better than being swept from turn 1
This is what being in a gen where toxapex is not broken for once does to a mf
I know there's a lot to talk about right now, but these were the ones I felt most passionate about
Im gonna edit the post to nom it to C instead of C-, because I have seen a few pechas with sball over hex just for this, they are the minority tho, so ill accept the point given
but also, I didn't mention clodsire once in my post, most of them run unawere anyway, and I said "pex not being broken for once" pex in sv is way less common than in SM and SS due to its loss of scald and knock off, and keldeo was famous for losing to pex untill sub taunt cm sets pop up but even those lost to common toxapex partners from those gens. I'm saying that without toxapex blocking its way, keldeo has been having a lot of usage for being able to brute force resists and neutrals with surf and secret sword
On corviknight tho, you put too much emphasis on stall, where it is easier to deal with lu/ghold/nite cores since you were planning on outlasting gholdengo with clodsire or blissey, and you pretty much lose regardless if the dengo pops out psyshock. The list of mons that you listed are pretty much the only thing you can check reliably (you forgot to add meowscarada) but the fact that you need multiple to cover for you instead of supporting each other is bad
Corv's stall position alone makes it deserve B- MINIMUM lmao. Clod is 4th, pex is 5th, corv is 7th. All of those are top tiers on stall and being one means you deserve at least somewhere around B. It's definitely B+ imo but ehhhh who the fuck cares arguing C is a larp take
When my GOAT gets mentioned like 5 times in this post and this dude doesn't make a nomination for him:doing this because we have reached midseason for SPL, too much glazing in this thread
A lot of argument will be based on around usage, win percent, and what it has actually done in these games, because you gotta take in all the context to truly understand something. It has 1.88% usage and only 1 out of 3 wins, and if you watch the replays you'll see that AT MOST it gets 1 or 2 knock offs into mostly unimportant stuff and it dies
Speaking of usage and win percent, this has 17 games, and has won 10 of them! Which mean this has a 10.63% usage with a 58.82% which, sounds like a solid upper midcarder in the OU sphere, until you actually watch the games, and see that what it actually does is click U-turn a couple of times and that's pretty much it, except that fucking Eternal Spirit vs Mada game which was a complete embarrassment. Not to mention it's terrible in this Ghold/Lu/dnite meta because you can't stop gholdengo from blocking you, by extension, you can't really stop ting lu from setting, you can only check dnite. You essentially use this if you want a glorified U-turn, just for that reason alone I'm gonna put it in C- instead of my usual F ranking but the reason I keep putting corv down is that the second I leave this community the next month is gonna be this thing in A+ because I know you people
My hottest take of the post by far, but hear me out, pult in SPL right now it has an 18.13% usage with a 44.83% win rate, this means 29 games but only 13 won. My opinion as to why is because of the rising of Pecharunt and the rising of Gholdengo lately, both having recover and better bulk, which is suited for longer battles. Now, dragapult HAS a niche that neither gholdengo nor pecharunt can replicate, which is his high speed and access to will-o-wisp, but has been more and more clear that it has a supporting role these days due to its lack of power and ting lu being everywhere, don't get me wrong, the support it provides is ACTUALLY GOOD because unlike corviknight, you can actually shoot down dnite proactively, but it has taken more of a silent backseat these days. I'm aware that there have been a few attempts to use specs pult again, which solves its lack of power buts its lack of boots + move lock makes it trickier to use than ever, still, not a bad mon in the slightest and its still scary, just not his best moment
This thing was always a permanent A- pick idk why it got moved, but now dnite + ting lu are everywhere to laugh at it offensively and defensively
Magcargo was right all along, we lost
For real tho, this thing is tricky to catch, the thing with this is that every move in his kit can be pivoted in and exploited, but to do that you have to be the better player every time, while the pecha user only has to use parting shot if he doesn't really know and only wants to dissociate. And while Kingambit is the hardest pecha counter in the tier, the fact that it always has to be at +1.5 at best instead of a +2 to break is irritating sometimes, not to mention that while you are forced to use tera dark, tera dark pecharunt is one of the best answers to tera fairy tera blast kingambit because bulky variants die to Malignant chain and +3 sucker punch only kills via crit, and tera fairy tera blast kingambit is really good vs the meta right, which is why people use pecharunt and sometimes zama together to full proof its chances, it requires tera yes, but it's better than being swept from turn 1
This is what being in a gen where toxapex is not broken for once does to a mf
I know there's a lot to talk about right now, but these were the ones I felt most passionate about
No, but seriously, I am surprised that you aren't nominating Dragonite to go a tier higher considering you are talking about it with the same respect as Ting-Lu a S- or arguably even S tier pokemon. The amount of set variety Dragonite has is really suprising to me as before about a month ago I thought its normal ddance e killer set was its only viable set (even then it is still definitely A tier from sheer power and priority alone). Now thanks to the power of tera however I am starting to really see how much it can deviate. It can go choice band, it can use tb flying for actual stab, and it even has a weird scale shot set that I don't really suggest you use (pls use Kyurem or Garchomp for your scale shotting needs) but is definitely an option. I am extremely close to calling Dragonite the best dragon in ou as it is really good at just simply killing basically everything. I can't say that for certain however as it faces very fierce competition from Dragapult and Kyurem (sorry Roaring Moon but even with new set variety you aren't quite based enough). The point I am trying to make is that you not making a nomination for this dude despite talking about how good it is is crazy. The rest of the post is kind of questionable as well, but I don't care that much.
Edit: Also, on that note I personally think now that Dragonite might be in the conversation for S- (on my tier list not the official one).
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A “glorified” slow uturn on a competent (albeit otherwise passive) physical wall with reliable recovery makes Corv instantly better than all of C tbh
That’s not to say Corv is particularly good, it is almost entirely shut down by one of the best mons in the tier to the point that unless you’re running Ting Lu (which, granted, who isn’t right now lol) or Blissey you basically have to uturn every time you come in if you’re facing Ghold, and with rocks up and potentially contact damage you’re gonna get worn down and killed in just 3-4 switch-ins at most. That said, 1) you’re not facing Ghold every game, 2) you’re at least depriving Ghold of its balloon in most games, and 3) slow pivoting is still an extremely useful thing to be able to do consistently, even when relegated to doing so just a couple times (and you can roost a lot more comfortably provided you have secure answers to the Ghold switch).
That said, I do think a drop to B is in order. It does check a number of desirable threats to check like Tusk, Dragonite (lacking fire punch), Gliscor, Pecharunt, Lando-T, Hamurott, Kingambit (shakily unless dropping U-Turn or Defog for ID), Ting Lu, Treads, some Roaring Moon, Enam, Glimmora, and most IVal. However, it lets virtually everything in on itself for relatively free, allowing everything you don’t have the means to OHKO to make its mark on your team. Tera complicates this further, as even threats you have an answer to can come in on U-Turn for cheap and use tera to set up on your pivotee. Some switch-ins are punishing you with contact damage or status, almost every user of which switches in very easily. Compared to other slow pivots like Alomomola and Glowking, Corv doesn’t threaten status with scald burn and twave/toxic/sludge bomb respectively, and doesn’t have regenerator to avoid spending turns recovering or even forego carrying a recovery move entirely. Corv also doesn’t offer wishpassing support or future sight, and while defog is a useful feature to compress in…I won’t beat a dead horse. What I will say in favor of defog Corv is that it does provide consistent removal when combined with Tusk or Cinderace, since it removes without issue into other ghosts and both Tusk and Ace can deal with (balloonless) Ghold. Neither of these mons are particularly difficult to include either, offering great offensive utility and role compression in their own right, and so if you’re truly bent on making use of a bunch of hazard weak mons, particularly offensive threats that appreciate a slow pivot and can together cover all your U-Turn switch-ins, Corv can help you to do this. This is, in my opinion, sufficient to at least justify a B rating.
That’s not to say Corv is particularly good, it is almost entirely shut down by one of the best mons in the tier to the point that unless you’re running Ting Lu (which, granted, who isn’t right now lol) or Blissey you basically have to uturn every time you come in if you’re facing Ghold, and with rocks up and potentially contact damage you’re gonna get worn down and killed in just 3-4 switch-ins at most. That said, 1) you’re not facing Ghold every game, 2) you’re at least depriving Ghold of its balloon in most games, and 3) slow pivoting is still an extremely useful thing to be able to do consistently, even when relegated to doing so just a couple times (and you can roost a lot more comfortably provided you have secure answers to the Ghold switch).
That said, I do think a drop to B is in order. It does check a number of desirable threats to check like Tusk, Dragonite (lacking fire punch), Gliscor, Pecharunt, Lando-T, Hamurott, Kingambit (shakily unless dropping U-Turn or Defog for ID), Ting Lu, Treads, some Roaring Moon, Enam, Glimmora, and most IVal. However, it lets virtually everything in on itself for relatively free, allowing everything you don’t have the means to OHKO to make its mark on your team. Tera complicates this further, as even threats you have an answer to can come in on U-Turn for cheap and use tera to set up on your pivotee. Some switch-ins are punishing you with contact damage or status, almost every user of which switches in very easily. Compared to other slow pivots like Alomomola and Glowking, Corv doesn’t threaten status with scald burn and twave/toxic/sludge bomb respectively, and doesn’t have regenerator to avoid spending turns recovering or even forego carrying a recovery move entirely. Corv also doesn’t offer wishpassing support or future sight, and while defog is a useful feature to compress in…I won’t beat a dead horse. What I will say in favor of defog Corv is that it does provide consistent removal when combined with Tusk or Cinderace, since it removes without issue into other ghosts and both Tusk and Ace can deal with (balloonless) Ghold. Neither of these mons are particularly difficult to include either, offering great offensive utility and role compression in their own right, and so if you’re truly bent on making use of a bunch of hazard weak mons, particularly offensive threats that appreciate a slow pivot and can together cover all your U-Turn switch-ins, Corv can help you to do this. This is, in my opinion, sufficient to at least justify a B rating.
Excellent points!
It also functions as a great knock absorber and has a pivotal role on stall. being one of the only real mons that still actually has defog in the gen is nothing to sneeze at. It literally has a niche that is unable to be replicated by almost every other mon in SV simply because of that access in addition to its great defensive profile and U-Turn.
IMO, any attempt to move it to any of the C ranks is either trolling, reactionary, or shortsighted. It has clearly carved out its role on both Balance and Stall and has found sufficient counterplay to Gholdengo with its partners on both archtypes.
1LDK should change his title to fisherman with the number of people he caught with that Corviknight bait. He despises the Mon for some asinine reason and always claims it’s F rank, just ignore the take and move on.
So this is actually relevant to the VR thread, I would like to propose
to B+. With the ever-rising Pecharunt, as well as the continued prevalence of Iron Moth and Slowking-Galar, Toxic Spikes just haven’t been as useful as they once were. I find myself preferring Landorus-T or Hamurott as leads, due to their greater range of utility and better matchup into opposing leads. Glimmora is still a serviceable lead for HO teams, but due to its lack of flexibility and decreasing utility, I believe a small drop is warranted.
So this is actually relevant to the VR thread, I would like to propose
to B+. With the ever-rising Pecharunt, as well as the continued prevalence of Iron Moth and Slowking-Galar, Toxic Spikes just haven’t been as useful as they once were. I find myself preferring Landorus-T or Hamurott as leads, due to their greater range of utility and better matchup into opposing leads. Glimmora is still a serviceable lead for HO teams, but due to its lack of flexibility and decreasing utility, I believe a small drop is warranted.
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Haven't made any noms on here in a while, but Imma make some.
D -> C
I've been using iron jugulis on a webs team a lot recently, and oh my fucking god this is better then a lot of the D tier trash in here. Booster speed with taunt does well against both offense and defense, as against offense it can use its fast speed and coverage to hit a lot of the tier super effectively, while against defense it can use taunt to prevent opponents from statusing it or healing up. It completely sits on non SD Gliscor, while Ting Lu can't use it as an entry point to get off hazards. Seriously, its better then fricking Scream Tail or Polteageist.
C+ -> B-
I'm agreeing with Ausma that this mon should be higher. Genuinelly insane setup sweeper with weak armour and SD, and it can surprisingly flex its slots a lot. Solar Blade is an option on sun teams or with power herb in order to hit the bulky water types of the tier, while CC can punish raging bolt and roaring moon that think they can beat it due to booster energy.
B+ -> B
Maybe a little bit of a controversial drop, but ogerpon has fallen a lot off this meta. It has so far gotten used 0 times during SPL, which is already not a good look. It struggles to compete in a meta where being a grass type is not exactly great if you don't have lots of other useful traits. It is corviknight fodder, kingambit fodder, Raging Bolt fodder, Zapdos fodder (getting knocked sucks, but if you static it, ogerpon is basically dead). Rillaboom is much stronger and has priority, and IDT rn you can justify the better initial speed and encore on ogerpon over rillaboom, and rillaboom is already struggling. Also you can't use waterpon with this mon, which is another constraint.
B -> C+
Yeah, ngl, anybody that says Midbombee is still good, I think is coping. You get a better bolt and moon setter (bolt is falling off because of ting lu and most webs teams fit iron treads, while moon araq can potentially deal with), for not much else. You are basically iron moth fodder, which isn't good because iron moth is a way bigger threat to webs as it outspeeds everything and has lots of coverage to beat webs. Sure, you guarentee webs, but most other web setters also do. I've had better success with god damn ariados, who is able to spread poison with toxic thread and has some insane trade potential if the opponent if they aren't careful.
D -> UR
I will be reposting the meme I put on the RU viability rankings
D -> CI've been using iron jugulis on a webs team a lot recently, and oh my fucking god this is better then a lot of the D tier trash in here. Booster speed with taunt does well against both offense and defense, as against offense it can use its fast speed and coverage to hit a lot of the tier super effectively, while against defense it can use taunt to prevent opponents from statusing it or healing up. It completely sits on non SD Gliscor, while Ting Lu can't use it as an entry point to get off hazards. Seriously, its better then fricking Scream Tail or Polteageist.
C+ -> B-I'm agreeing with Ausma that this mon should be higher. Genuinelly insane setup sweeper with weak armour and SD, and it can surprisingly flex its slots a lot. Solar Blade is an option on sun teams or with power herb in order to hit the bulky water types of the tier, while CC can punish raging bolt and roaring moon that think they can beat it due to booster energy.
B+ -> BMaybe a little bit of a controversial drop, but ogerpon has fallen a lot off this meta. It has so far gotten used 0 times during SPL, which is already not a good look. It struggles to compete in a meta where being a grass type is not exactly great if you don't have lots of other useful traits. It is corviknight fodder, kingambit fodder, Raging Bolt fodder, Zapdos fodder (getting knocked sucks, but if you static it, ogerpon is basically dead). Rillaboom is much stronger and has priority, and IDT rn you can justify the better initial speed and encore on ogerpon over rillaboom, and rillaboom is already struggling. Also you can't use waterpon with this mon, which is another constraint.
B -> C+Yeah, ngl, anybody that says Midbombee is still good, I think is coping. You get a better bolt and moon setter (bolt is falling off because of ting lu and most webs teams fit iron treads, while moon araq can potentially deal with), for not much else. You are basically iron moth fodder, which isn't good because iron moth is a way bigger threat to webs as it outspeeds everything and has lots of coverage to beat webs. Sure, you guarentee webs, but most other web setters also do. I've had better success with god damn ariados, who is able to spread poison with toxic thread and has some insane trade potential if the opponent if they aren't careful.
D -> URI will be reposting the meme I put on the RU viability rankings
Maybe a little bit of a controversial drop, but ogerpon has fallen a lot off this meta. It has so far gotten used 0 times during SPL, which is already not a good look. It struggles to compete in a meta where being a grass type is not exactly great if you don't have lots of other useful traits. It is corviknight fodder, kingambit fodder, Raging Bolt fodder, Zapdos fodder (getting knocked sucks, but if you static it, ogerpon is basically dead). Rillaboom is much stronger and has priority, and IDT rn you can justify the better initial speed and encore on ogerpon over rillaboom, and rillaboom is already struggling. Also you can't use waterpon with this mon, which is another constraint.
I agree with most of your points, and base oger has fallen off from its peak, but it has a great mu into corv bc encore defiant defog can actually apply a lot of pressure despite corv seeming to wall it
I shall defy this with my dying breath. Works well on stall and BO, Strength Sap is busted, Moonblast chunks.
The exact, specific combination of traits makes it more than the sum of its parts.
On that note I didn't know it was ranked at all, so...
Vileplume is a strictly worse Amoonguss in every way except maybe inflicting a status condition. Its passivity leaves only stall able to use it and on stall the one job it has is to beat Ogerpon, which it fails to do if the opponent has a single mon that doesn't have a super high attack stat. Even vs 6 physical attackers, hazards+knock+uturn requires the vileplume user to constantly predict right or they lose anyways. Ogerpon can't even be punished by Effect Spore because its immune.
It has the same offensive stat as Slowking, a 95 BP Fairy special move, Leech Seed and Strength Sap. Losing Spore really did a number on Gus. I mean, my options are *click Moonblast*, *click Leech Seed*, *click Strength Sap*, and only the last one requires any sort of prediction. Leech Seed is often a free clock even.
Gus is certainly better, and they perform similar roles, but Plume can do things Gus cannot, things noteworthy enough that it's even being discussed in an OU forum (which quite frankly is pretty silly, but that's the Tera gen).
Gus is certainly better, and they perform similar roles, but Plume can do things Gus cannot, things noteworthy enough that it's even being discussed in an OU forum (which quite frankly is pretty silly, but that's the Tera gen).
It's ranked because it's "viable" on stall (knex used it once) despite it being literally the lowest ranked mon on the stall VR. Remove it from the VR it is not noteworthy enough to be D
Ogerpon actually is easily punished, since, you know, Grass is a terrible offensive typing, so it has to use coverage, such as Knock + U-Turn. This is true for both Waterpon and Grasspon, Rockpon obviously can use Rock Stab.
The main problem I see with Vileplume is that vs Gholdengo you play with 5 Mons unless you use Tera Blast, which on a defensive Mon is suboptimal. That alone is enough to have Plume very low on the VR, though not unranked.
Okay, so I think I need to get something out of the way. Amoonguss, who Vileplume already competes with, isn't the greatest mon in the meta. It's C+ rank rn, which is dire.
Secondly, how are you fiting Moonblast into its moveset? You already need strength sap, leech seed, sludge bomb, giga drain and moonlight. Dropping any one of those is dire. If you drop Giga Drain, well now Garganacl can set up rocks on you for free. And alomomola just wishes and passes them to its teammates. Or ursaluna sets up for free. If you drop Sludge Bomb, well now you can't even do the one thing that you were meant to do, which is checking Waterpon. Because now it just SD's completely on your face and now in fact, just beats you (+5 tera water ivy cudgel has a 87.5% chance to OHKO, or they can click knock off instead). If you drop moonlight, well good luck getting stalled out by gholdengo because as I say below, it walls you. Any grass type can potentially switch in, take the leech seed, then switch to a steel type or something which isn't threatened by sludge bomb, which is a lot of the tier.
Thirdly, Vileplume, as Eeeveeto put it, is complete deadweight into Gholdengo. And when I say dead weight, I MEAN deadweight. This isn't something like Corviknight vs Gholdengo, where Corviknight can U-turn on Ghold coming in, or Rocks tusk vs Moltres, where it can make some amount of progress. The best it can do is click moonlight, and pray that gholdengo doesn't decide to click buttons (which you do not want gholdengo to do, no matter how many counters you have).
Saying it works is a stretch, you can certainly use it. You can use it sure, but 99 times out of 100, amoonguss works better because it can always check waterpon no matter what, can chip steel types with stomping tantrum or foul play, and is just an overall better pokemon.
Leech Seed isn't really free though. Corviknight just pp stalls you, and makes it so any special attacker that doesn't care about your stabs has free setup if it stalls out leech seed, glowking just future sights then chilly receptions out for free, tera hatterene literally just does not give a shit about you, sinistcha can use you as setup fodder, which can be dangerous. And any tera steel/poison mon just does not care about you.
Also who cares that it has the same offensive stat as glowking? Glowking is using its stab moves and glowking isn't trying to do insane damage. And moonblast isn't chunking anything that doesn't care about vileplume normally.
If amoonguss is washed rn, then my god vileplume is soaking. It was ranked because one or two stall teams peaked ladder with it (btw, klawf peaked ladder too, just to show that anything can 'technically' peak), and not much else. And even on stall, it is firmly not a good mon.
Got back into the 1800s so to celebrate it I made my personal VR for SV OU:
Alolan Muk is the goat and the more I use it the more I think it could even be rated above stuff like Pincurchin but for now this is my ranking. Meowscarada and Skarmory are extremely bad, Ting Lu is the most brainless mon in the tier, and I feel that Hoopa - U is REALLY underated. I think that by itself it makes stall as a teamstyle a lot worse.
Moonblast chunks or eliminates the many Dragon, Dark and Fighting types in the tier, with one of the most talked about being a combination of the former two. The only moves I ever found necessary was Leech Seed and Sap. Gholdengo sucks for it, and why I'm not arguing for C. In teams that I've used it, I've never felt weakened against Gholdengo as a whole as I usually have several Ghold checks, none of them Vileplume.
But I feel that it's flaws are...overblown. 110 Base offense means that, uninvested, I chunk or wipe out things. Not many expects Moonblast (or even know that Plume gets it). Corvid's existence doesn't invalidate the power of Leech Seed, making it much easier to swap into my teammates, or, more likely, forcing a switch (if Corvid PP stalls me, thats entirely on me). Sin has to worry about getting poisoned, I don't give a shit about Tera Hatterene (if Hatterene feels the need to Tera to stop my Vileplume, then hey).
I'm not really vouching for it to be ranked high, and as I'm no fan of Gus (again, losing Spore was such a loss), it fairing poorly nowadays imo, and Vileplume doesn't get to outrank Gus. But it can accomplish things that Gus cannot. There's a lot that stops a mom ranked at D, that is true.
But I feel that it's flaws are...overblown. 110 Base offense means that, uninvested, I chunk or wipe out things. Not many expects Moonblast (or even know that Plume gets it). Corvid's existence doesn't invalidate the power of Leech Seed, making it much easier to swap into my teammates, or, more likely, forcing a switch (if Corvid PP stalls me, thats entirely on me). Sin has to worry about getting poisoned, I don't give a shit about Tera Hatterene (if Hatterene feels the need to Tera to stop my Vileplume, then hey).
I'm not really vouching for it to be ranked high, and as I'm no fan of Gus (again, losing Spore was such a loss), it fairing poorly nowadays imo, and Vileplume doesn't get to outrank Gus. But it can accomplish things that Gus cannot. There's a lot that stops a mom ranked at D, that is true.
Been trying out AV Sylveon and I honestly believe this mon is deserving of at least C rank (if not C+ or B-).
1v1s every Kyurem set (no tera). Hyper Voice infiltrates Substitutes. Quick Attack is great at finishing chipped targets.
If you want replays there’s this one RMT with a Sylveon that has some, “Ivan the Torterrable” by volcanionisgood. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ivan-the-torterrable-peak-1936-rank-9.3756860/
A+ Roaring Moon. Y’all are sleeping on non-DD, and I don’t just mean choiced. I’m talkin stuff like AoA Boots like some weirdo Zama larp except it has KnockTurn.
132 SpA Iron Moth Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Sylveon: 162-192 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Sylveon: 78-93 (19.8 - 23.6%) -- possible 5HKO
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Sylveon: 175-207 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Sylveon in Sun: 219-258 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Sylveon: 212-252 (53.9 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Sylveon: 118-139 (30 - 35.3%) -- 24.6% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Tera Poison Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Sylveon: 320-380 (81.4 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Sylveon: 78-93 (19.8 - 23.6%) -- possible 5HKO
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Sylveon: 175-207 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Sylveon in Sun: 219-258 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Sylveon: 212-252 (53.9 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Sylveon: 118-139 (30 - 35.3%) -- 24.6% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Tera Poison Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Sylveon: 320-380 (81.4 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sylveon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 184-218 (58.4 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(predict the switchin and kill while taking only 64 max from MiR)
252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 380-450 (97.1 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
8 Atk Pixilate Sylveon Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 204-240 (58.1 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sylveon Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clodsire: 254-300 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(predict the switchin and kill while taking only 64 max from MiR)
252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 380-450 (97.1 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
8 Atk Pixilate Sylveon Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 204-240 (58.1 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sylveon Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clodsire: 254-300 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
1v1s every Kyurem set (no tera). Hyper Voice infiltrates Substitutes. Quick Attack is great at finishing chipped targets.
If you want replays there’s this one RMT with a Sylveon that has some, “Ivan the Torterrable” by volcanionisgood. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ivan-the-torterrable-peak-1936-rank-9.3756860/
A+ Roaring Moon. Y’all are sleeping on non-DD, and I don’t just mean choiced. I’m talkin stuff like AoA Boots like some weirdo Zama larp except it has KnockTurn.
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Aside from being able to 1v1 raging bolt/kyurem and the quick attack shennanigans, is there anything Sylveon does that Primarina doesn't? The special bulk is better but I can't think of any matchups where that actually puts you over meaningful thresholds.
Better overall bulk (95/ 65/ 130 vs 80/ 74/ 116), stronger main STAB (albeit only one on Sylveon), and beating Bolt + Kyu easier is a big deal. Also ok-ish prio.
252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 172-204 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 168-198 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Shitmon Showcase: Personal Ranking of best UR mons
For all of you who adore an out-of-left-field pick, particularly one that doesn’t receive the turn 3 dishonorable discharge sac in the obligatory blunder/pokeaim/freezai video, I’ve compiled my thoughts as to which mons not currently on the VR are the most viable (and may deserve an upgrade).
Disclaimer: I am not insistent that more than the first 3-4 of these mons well and truly deserve a ranking. OU is an unforgiving place, and even seeing occasional success is insufficient to earn a ranking. I’m not interested in pages of arguing as to why [insert shitmon here] really is amazing/dogshit or how I could forget [insert your favorite]. At the end of the day, this thread is about the VR and updates it should receive, and generally speaking there are just more pressing changes than the majority of those mentioned here. This was just in good fun for me.
With that out of the way:
For all of you who adore an out-of-left-field pick, particularly one that doesn’t receive the turn 3 dishonorable discharge sac in the obligatory blunder/pokeaim/freezai video, I’ve compiled my thoughts as to which mons not currently on the VR are the most viable (and may deserve an upgrade).
Disclaimer: I am not insistent that more than the first 3-4 of these mons well and truly deserve a ranking. OU is an unforgiving place, and even seeing occasional success is insufficient to earn a ranking. I’m not interested in pages of arguing as to why [insert shitmon here] really is amazing/dogshit or how I could forget [insert your favorite]. At the end of the day, this thread is about the VR and updates it should receive, and generally speaking there are just more pressing changes than the majority of those mentioned here. This was just in good fun for me.
With that out of the way:
I honestly didn’t realize this was unranked in the first place, and hasn’t been for the entire last year at least?? I know it faces competition from Glowking and Alomomola as alternate regenerator slow pivots, and while both of the above are better, Slowking distinguishes itself from the above sufficiently to have its own viable niche, and to be the best choice for some teams:
- its typing is defensively a mixed bag compared to glowking, losing fighting quad resistance, fairy, poison, and grass resistances, and electric, bug, and freeze-dry neutrality with its own fighting resistance, fairy neutrality, and grass, electric, bug, and freeze-dry weaknesses, but gaining resistances to water, fire, ice (outside of freeze-dry), psychic, and steel and neutrality to the omnipresent ground. Slowking’s is overall inferior to Glowking’s but offers a few improved matchups like sun as a whole, Ting-Lu, Kingambit (barely, but it disincentivizes clicking iron head less comfortable), Iron Crown, Gliscor, Iron Moth, Enamorus, and Primarina, before considering offensive differences. Over Alomomola, it does better defensively into a few psynoise/psyshock/stored power users and Kyurem, as well as most special attackers lacking bug/dark/ghost coverage, but the most important difference in defensive utility that Slowking has over Alo is being able to pivot on the Waterpon switch.
- Offensively is where it really begins to meaningfully distinguish itself. Scald, especially with STAB, is a huge boon to its ability to find a real niche in the meta, allowing it to threaten to burn non-fire-type switch-ins not named Waterpon/Garg/Gliscor, while doing respectable damage to Garg, Gliscor, and all fire types except the rare Volcanion. Notably, Kingambit is much less happy to switch in and risk a burn compared to Glowking. Furthermore, scald disincentivizes the switch-in of a number of thunder wave immunities thanks to many of them being ground types with a scald weakness, allowing you to spread yellow magic more freely and threaten to cripple the Waterpon switch. Compared to Alo, it threatens status more proficiently and carries the ever-valuable future sight. While it doesn’t have as high a spatk stat as Glowking, doesn’t hit fairies as hard, and lacks Toxic/threat of poison with tspikes or Sludge Bomb, overall it makes similar if not more progress with each entry point given to it than its Galarian counterpart.
I already talked about this in an earlier post, though I’m giving it a more aggressively positive ranking now:
Zapdos-Galar: UR > D/C-
With a choice band, Gapdos is a rocks-neutral, spikes/webs/tspikes-immune breaker with great matchups into tusk, zama, and stall, outspeeding and OHKOing tusk, 2HKOing Zama while resisting body press/crunch and being neutral to stone edge/heavy slam (and easily tanking ice fang), 2HKOing both Skarm and Corv with CC, and 3HKOing Dozo with either stab. Standard max speed Pecha is a roll to 2HKO with knock if it has an item for the first knock, and brave bird is almost guaranteed (99.6%) to 2HKO, all while outspeeding. Even if its longevity is hampered by recoil/defense drops and contact damage, this is worthy of a ranking in my opinion, especially in a BO/hstack/webs-filled meta where Gapdos can both fit easily and threaten dominant structures. Edit: also Defiant is a really nice ability for taking advantage of teams relying on Pecharunt as their main physical wall/pivot, although you need sub or tera poison/steel to take on malignant chain.
Also talked about in that same post:
Mienshao: UR > D
Regenerator breaker that shrugs off chip with ease, allowing it to threaten both stall and offense structures comfortably with an adamant scarf 4A set (CC, taxel, knock, uturn). If it were even a tad sturdier I’d bump it up further, but for now I feel it has a small niche especially on future sight BOs.
Entei @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Choice Band
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Normal / Grass / Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Hasty Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- Extreme Speed
- Eruption / Tera Blast / Crunch / Will-O-Wisp / Trailblaze
Entei notches a niche (and an SPL debut) by virtue of being a very efficient burn spreader with access to priority via extreme speed and useful coverage via stone edge. It competes with Hisuian-Arcanine thanks to their extremely similar statlines and coverage profiles; compared to Harcanine, what Entei lacks in sheer power/STAB coverage it makes up for in speed tier (outpacing Kyurem, Lando-T, Iron Crown, Tinkaton, fast Gliscor, Jolly Lokix, adamant Waterpon and Garchomp, and modest Wake and Enam), defensive prowess (115/85/75 vs 95/80/80, with a superior defensive typing), and a movepool upgrade/sidegrade thanks to Sacred Fire. Sacred Fire is an extremely difficult move to switch into between its high base power and 50% burn chance, while Stone Edge covers most Sacred Fire switch-ins, comfortably putting Moth, Moltres, and Cinderace into espeed range without a boosting item (or oneshotting all of the above with LO or CB). Extreme speed helps patch its speed tier against the many speedy threats available in OU and can be tera-boosted. Finally, its last slot is extremely customizable, with Crunch helping to hit Pult, Trailblaze letting it speed boost, Eruption nailing the physical walls that can stomach your other moves (especially in sun), Tera Blast offering additional coverage for threats like Garg and Roaring Moon, Wisp providing a guaranteed burn, and so on.
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Normal / Grass / Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Hasty Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- Extreme Speed
- Eruption / Tera Blast / Crunch / Will-O-Wisp / Trailblaze
Entei notches a niche (and an SPL debut) by virtue of being a very efficient burn spreader with access to priority via extreme speed and useful coverage via stone edge. It competes with Hisuian-Arcanine thanks to their extremely similar statlines and coverage profiles; compared to Harcanine, what Entei lacks in sheer power/STAB coverage it makes up for in speed tier (outpacing Kyurem, Lando-T, Iron Crown, Tinkaton, fast Gliscor, Jolly Lokix, adamant Waterpon and Garchomp, and modest Wake and Enam), defensive prowess (115/85/75 vs 95/80/80, with a superior defensive typing), and a movepool upgrade/sidegrade thanks to Sacred Fire. Sacred Fire is an extremely difficult move to switch into between its high base power and 50% burn chance, while Stone Edge covers most Sacred Fire switch-ins, comfortably putting Moth, Moltres, and Cinderace into espeed range without a boosting item (or oneshotting all of the above with LO or CB). Extreme speed helps patch its speed tier against the many speedy threats available in OU and can be tera-boosted. Finally, its last slot is extremely customizable, with Crunch helping to hit Pult, Trailblaze letting it speed boost, Eruption nailing the physical walls that can stomach your other moves (especially in sun), Tera Blast offering additional coverage for threats like Garg and Roaring Moon, Wisp providing a guaranteed burn, and so on.
Its natural physical bulk and regenerator allow it to separate itself from Slowking and carve a more Hydrapple-esque niche for itself, exchanging some breaking power for the ability to slow sweep with CM/scald/<psyshock/psynoise/stored power>/<slack off/ice beam>. While absolutely gimmicky, it also has access to body press unlike its spdef counterparts, which it can set up with iron defense and which without any boosts or the help of tera comes close to oneshotting Kingambit (which requires tera dark + black glasses + 2 fainted or tera dark + 4 fainted to guarantee a oneshot on Slowbro); foul play grants it a means to hit ghosts on this set. Its nomination for D rank is absolutely with reference to the CM set, however, which can switch in and setup on non-roar Zama, Tusk, Dragonite lacking encore/dtail, and SD Gliscor (???), among others, absorb almost all U-Turns well despite their super effectiveness, and remain healthy even when forced out thanks to regenerator.
0 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 90-108 (22.8 - 27.4%) -- 59.4% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 112-134 (28.4 - 34%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 146-172 (37 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 133-157 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 83-98 (21 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 254-302 (64.4 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 144-170 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
32 Atk Cinderace U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 80-96 (20.3 - 24.3%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 90-108 (22.8 - 27.4%) -- 59.4% chance to 4HKO
+2 244 Atk Gliscor Knock Off (97.5 BP) over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 382-452 (96.9 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 218-260 (74.1 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 300-354 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 112-134 (28.4 - 34%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 146-172 (37 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 133-157 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 83-98 (21 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 254-302 (64.4 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 144-170 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
32 Atk Cinderace U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 80-96 (20.3 - 24.3%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 90-108 (22.8 - 27.4%) -- 59.4% chance to 4HKO
+2 244 Atk Gliscor Knock Off (97.5 BP) over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 382-452 (96.9 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 218-260 (74.1 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 300-354 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gengar has exactly one niche in OU: a specs breaker that can spam shadow balls that hit much harder than Pult’s and that has access to trick. Its speed tier is still decent (albeit far from its original glory), and the only stronger shadow balls come from much slower mons like Ghold, Chandelure, or Hoopa. It’s not much, but it’s something.
Role compression mon that competes most directly with Iron Treads and Zamazenta. Compared to Treads, it has better defense, more serviceable spatk, and a better speed tier alongside STAB body press, as well as access to twave and taunt, while maintaining rocks, steel STAB, and volt switch. Compared to Zama, it has rocks, volt switch, the coveted steel typing, and twave. I can only see this mon being the best use of a slot if you need both of their traits packed into 1 slot.
Can break with specs tinted lens or go for a sweep with speed boost throat spray. Extremely rocks weak, needs tera for coverage, but decent snowball potential.