not to be pretentious but yall should really read this… C.H.A.T. (Come Here for All Talk)

[Yung Dramps]

Before going in, your roster, your project at the end of the day.

I'll chime in as both a competitive player and someone who has strong opinions on roster construction in a more broad sense.

As a competitive player, i'll admit, this doesn't look great for our world. i'm kinda left looking at this list and i'm wondering like, who can do combos? who are our disjoint characters? this seems like camper hell. (I'm intentionally using 'camper' a bit vague in this more casual context. further elaboration is available.)
View attachment 741831

Here, Green = broadly recognized as good for the game, Yellow = uncertain, Blue = gimmicky, Purple = notorious camper, Black = new (no knowledge). I did this quickly and probably whiffed some (Mario, Peach, and K. Rool among those one could dispute), but there's a whole lot of blue and purple. (And the character switch Pokemon trainers will also probably also be gimmicky.)

One could say here like, I could redesign these characters, and that Ultimate puts you in a bad spot because so many characters are campy and gimmicky. And I'd say, sure, the former is possible and the latter is broadly true, but this game does not look super fun for non-casuals. Lots of fun, balanced, non-campy characters are out here: Roy, Chrom, Sheik, Captain Falcon, Wolf, Pichu, Mewtwo, Incineroar, Corrin, Pit, and Ridley are cut, and likely more too.

(I probably should've included Ken here as a good character because he's different enough from Ryu, but I'm too lazy to edit the image.)

____________________________________________________________________

For non-competitive, I'm more mixed here. I'm generally a fan of smaller rosters both for competitive reasons (less matchup hell) and casual reasons (eg more effort put into other parts of the game, characters feel more distinct and identity-having, less choice paralysis, easier to learn the whole roster for random). So that's great in my book.

And given that, you made some of choices I agree with, ones that other people often don't. These choices are especially difficult when deciding who to cut and not. You kept good gaming history and casual play in with guys like Isabelle, G/W, Duck Hunt, and Pac-Man. I'm real tired of rosters where all of DH, G/W, Wii Fit Trainer, and Mii Fighter are cut – I understand you may not keep them all, that's cool, but people who cut them all out feel like their design POV is too sterile and missing a lot of what has made Smash unique and great.

Foreman Spike has big gadget Piranha Plant energy that i'm totally down for. New Pokemon content post Gen5 is a nice dose of reality. I think the echos are all solid adds, but I'm surprised no Dr. Mario. While I'm a bit bummed about losing Ridley in an gameplay sense, I think Raven Beak is a totally fair swap in the non-mechanical world, at least, the kind that most people would be too nostalgic or conservative to make but which can definitely help Smash get its own identity.

The only grief I'll give you on removals is Pit. A character so intertwined with the Smash franchise (revived for Brawl, Palutena as the exemplar of 4's Custom Moves, KIU inspired the UI of Smash 4, Palutena's Guidance, etc.) should get one spot, I'm pretty sure, especially when other life support/dead franchises like Star Fox / Mother get one or more.

However, in general I'm not super high on the other additions. Most fan rosters tell you what franchises the maker likes vs dislikes, and like, that's fine – it's natural that personal interest influences this personal interest franchise. However, I think that type of interest is best expressed in thoughtfully allocating spots and making designs and concepts, and there's some spot bias here for Xenoblade, Sonic, and traditional fighting games. These three franchises, none of which are that important to Nintendo, take more than a quarter of the whole roster. (Echoes not included, besides Ken, who is classified as an echo but is functionally a separate fighter.) 13/50. Tmk, Ultimate simultaneously has proportionately more Nintendo characters and shows a broader swathe of nontraditional entrants.

I get the POV on including one Xenoblade character for each game, but cutting the roster and adding to a franchise that just got DLC and isn't that big-picture important feels hard to justify. It's your roster at the end of the day, but if it were me, I'd cut one Xenoblade, make Shadow a true echo, and cut at least 2 of the traditional FG guys.

I don't think gating access to the Pokemon franchise behind a gimmicky swap mechanic is a great idea. No solo Pikachu, while certainly bold, was a bit boggling. If you want Cynthia and her Garchomp, you can make a solo Garchomp character with her as a background trainer, and I might recommend it. Also, I'm not really sure what your opinions on the newer games are, but you gotta include Pokemon content from the past 10 years. Adding solo Mewtwo, a solo newer Pokemon, and splitting Pikachu from Charizard would do a lot for me here.

I really don't like Bandana Dee. I don't. He's very corporate mascot to me, both in appearance and functionality. Maybe he's gotten major upgrades in FL - I don't know a lot about for him – but people have been clamoring for him since RTDL, where he has no story role or agency. I read his situation as a Geno or Waluigi situation, where the hype is self sustaining but questionably founded. He's cute, but in a kind of generic way that Kirby already slots into. I think Kirby has a wealth of diverse side characters that show the franchise's history and creative gameplay more, like... most of the Star Allies dream friends, honestly, and also Dark Matter.

In conclusion, #AdeleineForSmash2026

Not gonna comment at all on the competitive viability of my roster: I do not have enough in-depth mechanical knowledge of Smash and fighting game character design so honestly it's probably pretty bad lol. The newcomers I have no idea how they'd even play besides some basic big picture move ideas, I couldn't tell you a damn thing about what Shadow's combo options or Raven Beak's kill confirms would look like.

Funnily enough giving Xenoblade 3 reps wasn't motivated by personal bias at all, I've never played any of the games. I just kinda figured "ok the series is prestigious and acclaimed enough to merit someone besides Shulk and at that point you have 2/3 so might as well go all the way". Now Sonic on the other hand I am guilty as charged, and that bias prohibits me from just making Shadow an echo fighter. Yes, in quite a few games he plays as a Sonic clone, but there's just as many where he shows off his own unique powers from Chaos Spears to teleportation. Shadow Generations was what really tipped the idea of making him an echo into unacceptable territory for me, the Doom Powers simply open too much moveset potential to settle for a Sonic reskin.

Now, I didn't do the math, but if what you say about my roster having proportionally more third parties than Ultimate is true than that's an oopsie on my part I promptly need to recalibrate: One of my goals was to actually substantially scale back third party representation as I do think it got kind of ridiculous in Ultimate's DLC. I at least accomplished the "trimming down the number of franchises to mainly close Nintendo partners and really big boys like PAC-Man and Minecraft" part of that, but still. I reckon I'll move Akuma to DLC, junk Geese and add in Pit and two other Nintendo villains (Note how there are 13 villains with Xehanort included).

Yeah you know the more I think about it the more I realize making every Pokemon rep Pokemon Trainer but with 2 guys was a bad call. It just makes adding in more from that franchise way too cumbersome (e.g. I wanted to add Lillie but realized she has no Pokemon popular/important enough to be Smash characters).

Truthfully Bandana Dee wouldn't be my first choice for a new Kirby character either. I put him in because 1) tapping into my cynical marketer side and adding an obvious fan request and 2) because Kirby doesn't have a ton of regularly recurring characters across games besides the current trio, which is also why I didn't put in a new Zelda rep (e.g. if you added Skull Kid you'd inevitably have people going "What about Tingle/Midna/Urbosa etc." without any real coherent rebuttal). Those kinds of characters are better saved for DLC I reckon (Raven Beak is an exception here but unlike Kirby and Zelda Metroid has a very defined episodic chronology which he was made very important to). I do think Dark Matter and Magolor fit this criteria just enough, and now I could swap one of them in with those 2 freed up villain slots...

 

[Adeleine]

don't mind my ass forgetting what xenahort looked like and assuming he was a fgc guy i didn't know about

at least i was still right to include him as a third party

interesting to see more of the design process too. very fun to see lists and discussion on them that are thoughtful about what they want to do and why

one could say the villain legion conceptually has the potential to be too derivative from subspace but like, im sure theres a way you could make it different and unique enough, sure cools, just something one might look out for i guess

for third parties, my quickmath says abt 16/83 of ultimate is 3rd party (abt 1/5), and yours is about 14/50 (abt 1/4)

people i counted as ultimate 3p:
snake
sonic
mega man
pac man
ryu
ken
cloud
simon
joker
hero
banjo
terry
steve
sephiroth
kazuya
sora

people i notably didn't count as (same for you):
bayo
richter (echo)

 

[Cancel cult]

My main idea for the story mode is the villains forming a Legion of Doom to defeat the heroes now that the Hands, Galeem and Dharkon are all gone. As part of this Kamek creates a spell to possess those 3 and make them evil again

not that this matters in the world of smash, but meta knight resists mind control through sheer willpower, and not counting the time he was turned into a robot (and the yarn), he was only ever able to be controlled by Void Termina, who is probably the most powerful villain in kirby. The same very much cannot be said for Dedede though, as he has been possessed/mind controlled/controlled in some fashion a total of seven (eight if you count the mask in forgotten land as a separate instance) times.

 

[Adeleine]

if it doesn't matter in smash, why criticize the idea for it

especially when it's self-defeating with 'not counting these times', and you can have this new overlord villain be another 'the most powerful villain' type guy (e.g. Tabuu / Galeem)

Subspace was super willing to screw with 'canon' (as much as such a thing exists in most nintendo games) and was often all the better for it

 

[Cancel cult]

if it doesn't matter in smash, why criticize the idea for it

especially when it's self-defeating with 'not counting these times', and you can have this new overlord villain be another 'the most powerful villain' type guy (e.g. Tabuu / Galeem)

Subspace was super willing to screw with 'canon' (as much as such a thing exists in most nintendo games) and was often all the better for it

 

[Yung Dramps]

not that this matters in the world of smash, but meta knight resists mind control through sheer willpower, and not counting the time he was turned into a robot (and the yarn), he was only ever able to be controlled by Void Termina, who is probably the most powerful villain in kirby. The same very much cannot be said for Dedede though, as he has been possessed/mind controlled/controlled in some fashion a total of seven (eight if you count the mask in forgotten land as a separate instance) times.

kamek's just built different i guess

anywho round 2. no change to echoes so i cropped em out

-As you can see I dumped Pokemon trainers entirely. Sceptile gives more variety to early days rep while completing a FWG starter trio. Meanwhile Mimikyu replaces Incineroar as the most popular Alola mon
-I went with Magolor over Dark Matter & Marx because of how relatively often he's been playable in games like Kirby Fighters 2 and RtDl DX
-I was originally gonna keep Ike and add Black Knight as the Fire Emblem villain but I ultimately decided that limiting rep of this series to the era before it exploded in popularity was a tad mean, hence switching in Three Houses guys. Ike's now a DLC addition

Speaking of which, let's take a look at those

Some needed context: My wacky idea for this game's DLC fighters is that they are primary selling points for story mode expansion packs. New areas to explore with their own side stories branching off from the base game where Skull Kid and Sylux respectively serve as main villains. Expansion 1, represented by the top row, would be called something like "Festival of Battles" and center around a tournament in a vaguely traditional japanese iconography-tinted jungle area where burly strongmen like Ike and Falcon compete as well as mystical fellas like Geno and Skull Kid. Expansion 2 would be called something like "The Eternal Foundry" and as you can see features a host of robot/sci-fi guys. Both expansions keep up the "heroes vs villains" theming with 6 apiece (Zero and I guess Mewtwo would be possessed as well).

As for comments on individual choices:
-I think DLC Captain Falcon is a fair compromise. He would have 0 chance if Smash was made today with no proper F-Zero revival in sight but his Smash incarnation is iconic enough that I'll let him hang on as a paid extra
-Much like Bandana Dee, Geno is the crowdpleaser choice I have no real personal investment in. Dunno why so many people want him but he's still a leagues more serious pick than Waluigi so hey
-I said I'm trying to scale back third parties but I reckoned the DLC could use at least one ridiculous, social media-crashing uberhype pick that pushes the boundaries of who can be a Smash character. It was between Hatsune Miku and Freddy Fazbear and I went with the former because World Is Mine in Smash sounds powerful

 

[RainWaiv]

Before going in, your roster, your project at the end of the day.

I'll chime in as both a competitive player and someone who has strong opinions on roster construction in a more broad sense.

As a competitive player, i'll admit, this doesn't look great for our world. i'm kinda left looking at this list and i'm wondering like, who can do combos? who are our disjoint characters? this seems like camper hell. (I'm intentionally using 'camper' a bit vague in this more casual context. further elaboration is available.)
View attachment 741831

Here, Green = broadly recognized as good for the game, Yellow = uncertain, Blue = gimmicky, Purple = notorious camper, Black = new (no knowledge). I did this quickly and probably whiffed some (Mario, Peach, and K. Rool among those one could dispute), but there's a whole lot of blue and purple. (And the character switch Pokemon trainers will also probably also be gimmicky.)

One could say here like, I could redesign these characters, and that Ultimate puts you in a bad spot because so many characters are campy and gimmicky. And I'd say, sure, the former is possible and the latter is broadly true, but this game does not look super fun for non-casuals. Lots of fun, balanced, non-campy characters are out here: Roy, Chrom, Sheik, Captain Falcon, Wolf, Pichu, Mewtwo, Incineroar, Corrin, Pit, and Ridley are cut, and likely more too.

(I probably should've included Ken here as a good character because he's different enough from Ryu, but I'm too lazy to edit the image.)

____________________________________________________________________

For non-competitive, I'm more mixed here. I'm generally a fan of smaller rosters both for competitive reasons (less matchup hell) and casual reasons (eg more effort put into other parts of the game, characters feel more distinct and identity-having, less choice paralysis, easier to learn the whole roster for random). So that's great in my book.

And given that, you made some of choices I agree with, ones that other people often don't. These choices are especially difficult when deciding who to cut and not. You kept good gaming history and casual play in with guys like Isabelle, G/W, Duck Hunt, and Pac-Man. I'm real tired of rosters where all of DH, G/W, Wii Fit Trainer, and Mii Fighter are cut – I understand you may not keep them all, that's cool, but people who cut them all out feel like their design POV is too sterile and missing a lot of what has made Smash unique and great.

Foreman Spike has big gadget Piranha Plant energy that i'm totally down for. New Pokemon content post Gen5 is a nice dose of reality. I think the echos are all solid adds, but I'm surprised no Dr. Mario. While I'm a bit bummed about losing Ridley in an gameplay sense, I think Raven Beak is a totally fair swap in the non-mechanical world, at least, the kind that most people would be too nostalgic or conservative to make but which can definitely help Smash get its own identity.

The only grief I'll give you on removals is Pit. A character so intertwined with the Smash franchise (revived for Brawl, Palutena as the exemplar of 4's Custom Moves, KIU inspired the UI of Smash 4, Palutena's Guidance, etc.) should get one spot, I'm pretty sure, especially when other life support/dead franchises like Star Fox / Mother get one or more.

However, in general I'm not super high on the other additions. Most fan rosters tell you what franchises the maker likes vs dislikes, and like, that's fine – it's natural that personal interest influences this personal interest franchise. However, I think that type of interest is best expressed in thoughtfully allocating spots and making designs and concepts, and there's some spot bias here for Xenoblade, Sonic, and traditional fighting games. These three franchises, none of which are that important to Nintendo, take more than a quarter of the whole roster. (Echoes not included, besides Ken, who is classified as an echo but is functionally a separate fighter.) 13/50. Tmk, Ultimate simultaneously has proportionately more Nintendo characters and shows a broader swathe of nontraditional entrants.

I get the POV on including one Xenoblade character for each game, but cutting the roster and adding to a franchise that just got DLC and isn't that big-picture important feels hard to justify. It's your roster at the end of the day, but if it were me, I'd cut one Xenoblade, make Shadow a true echo, and cut at least 2 of the traditional FG guys.

I don't think gating access to the Pokemon franchise behind a gimmicky swap mechanic is a great idea. No solo Pikachu, while certainly bold, was a bit boggling. If you want Cynthia and her Garchomp, you can make a solo Garchomp character with her as a background trainer, and I might recommend it. Also, I'm not really sure what your opinions on the newer games are, but you gotta include Pokemon content from the past 10 years. Adding solo Mewtwo, a solo newer Pokemon, and splitting Pikachu from Charizard would do a lot for me here.

I really don't like Bandana Dee. I don't. He's very corporate mascot to me, both in appearance and functionality. Maybe he's gotten major upgrades in FL - I don't know a lot about for him – but people have been clamoring for him since RTDL, where he has no story role or agency. I read his situation as a Geno or Waluigi situation, where the hype is self sustaining but questionably founded. He's cute, but in a kind of generic way that Kirby already slots into. I think Kirby has a wealth of diverse side characters that show the franchise's history and creative gameplay more, like... most of the Star Allies dream friends, honestly, and also Dark Matter.

In conclusion, #AdeleineForSmash2026

simple solution add 15 rushdowns and turn the game into blazblue

 

[BIG ASHLEY]

anyone know why my instagram feed's suddenly full of clips of rhea ripley? i'm not complaining like but seems a bit random

 

[SandVeil10]

kamek's just built different i guess

anywho round 2. no change to echoes so i cropped em out
View attachment 741929
-As you can see I dumped Pokemon trainers entirely. Sceptile gives more variety to early days rep while completing a FWG starter trio. Meanwhile Mimikyu replaces Incineroar as the most popular Alola mon
-I went with Magolor over Dark Matter & Marx because of how relatively often he's been playable in games like Kirby Fighters 2 and RtDl DX
-I was originally gonna keep Ike and add Black Knight as the Fire Emblem villain but I ultimately decided that limiting rep of this series to the era before it exploded in popularity was a tad mean, hence switching in Three Houses guys. Ike's now a DLC addition

Speaking of which, let's take a look at those
View attachment 741933
Some needed context: My wacky idea for this game's DLC fighters is that they are primary selling points for story mode expansion packs. New areas to explore with their own side stories branching off from the base game where Skull Kid and Sylux respectively serve as main villains. Expansion 1, represented by the top row, would be called something like "Festival of Battles" and center around a tournament in a vaguely traditional japanese iconography-tinted jungle area where burly strongmen like Ike and Falcon compete as well as mystical fellas like Geno and Skull Kid. Expansion 2 would be called something like "The Eternal Foundry" and as you can see features a host of robot/sci-fi guys. Both expansions keep up the "heroes vs villains" theming with 6 apiece (Zero and I guess Mewtwo would be possessed as well).

As for comments on individual choices:
-I think DLC Captain Falcon is a fair compromise. He would have 0 chance if Smash was made today with no proper F-Zero revival in sight but his Smash incarnation is iconic enough that I'll let him hang on as a paid extra
-Much like Bandana Dee, Geno is the crowdpleaser choice I have no real personal investment in. Dunno why so many people want him but he's still a leagues more serious pick than Waluigi so hey
-I said I'm trying to scale back third parties but I reckoned the DLC could use at least one ridiculous, social media-crashing uberhype pick that pushes the boundaries of who can be a Smash character. It was between Hatsune Miku and Freddy Fazbear and I went with the former because World Is Mine in Smash sounds powerful

Thanks for sharing your roster idea with us, I wanted to share some of my thoughts about it :

Pros :

- I'm a fan of the heroes vs villains concept and the story mode ideas attached to it. It's a nice new direction for the series post-roster cuts to give it some kind of dedicated focus that detracts from Everyone No Longer Being Here.
>> It also opens the way to some cool new character picks that may not feel like top-of-the-pile inclusions in isolation, but all fit the mold of the concept you're going for, like Foreman Spike, Raven Beak, Xehanort, Skull Kid, and Sylux just to name those.

- The total roster size is also nicely balanced and realistic, given the more ambitious focus on a story mode that'd also receive further attention with DLC, something I think is really cool. The different themes for each Fighter Pass are a nice touch as well.

- Base roster wise, I'm happy in particular with the Mario and DK characters kept in, the number of Pokémon fighters, and the remaining miscellaneous Nintendo characters that represent their respective series alone, save for one or two things I'll get to later.

- DLC wise, I agree that Miku is a good shout as the surprise, pretty high-profile pick that expands upon the realm of possibility in terms of roster additions ; I can't quite imagine what her moveset would be like, but there's gotta be some potential there.

Cons :

- The following points are related to Smash Bros relevance/importance discourse surrounding character picks, which I gotta admit is not the most fun thing to discuss because it's in this weird in-between of objectivity and subjectivity, but I reckon is worth bringing up :

1) Kirby at 5 fighters and Zelda at 3+1 counting DLC feels awkward, I know it's not truly a big deal but I reckon they should have the same number of fighters. Something like a 5 and 5 split (maybe adding Sheik to the base roster) or 4 and 4 instead (Bandana Dee or Magolor removed), but yeah it's your call whether you feel this is actually an issue or not really ;

2) Animal Crossing only having one playable character is a similar case, Villager and Isabelle may not stand out much from one another but I imagine one original fighter + one clone/semi-clone is a fair number of fighters given AC's newly-found renown. If the Mother series can have 1 original character + 1 semi-clone + 1 Echo, there's some merit to keeping Villager as well imo ;

3) Having three Xenoblade characters feels like too much, in terms of the series' standing compared to other franchises ;

4) This one is a bit of an odd mention given 3), but I reckon Captain Falcon as a DLC character would not go down well. Here's my thoughts about it :

F-Zero? More like F, Zero relevance hehe (TL;DR at the end if need be)

It's mainly speculation on my part, but I think once serious roster discussion/predictions truly kick off, in the event of sweeping roster cuts people will scrutinize roster decisions a lot more than they have in the past, whether it is for the non-returnees, the base roster additions, and the DLC picks.

From what I've been able to gather over the years, even today, Falcon is still one of those fan favourite, emblematic presences in the roster that may not merit a spot in terms of his own series' place in gaming, but more so as the timeless cool uncle of the roster that represents the frantic, all-out attacking style of playing Smash Bros that many people love.

His absence from the main roster, coupled with having to pay to play as him again, would give this 'afterthought' feel to his inclusion which I don't think will sit well with the hardcore side of the fanbase, and would also be a head-scratcher for more casual fans.

It wouldn't be a sweeping controversy that'd hurt Nintendo's bottom line in any way, but it's the kind of controversial move that'd send the wrong message to fans in a time of tricky transition for the Smash Bros series post-Ultimate.

[TL;DR], Mostly avoiding bad PR and not letting a roster decision regarding a popular character dominate pre-release discourse, which would overshadow the possible improvements + additions to the 1-player modes, online, gameplay, fighter movesets etc.

On a personal level, despite F-Zero's undeniable irrelevance nowadays, I would be disappointed to see the Captain lose his status as a true Smash Bros mainstay.

I think that covers everything I had strong feelings about. Some of the DLC character choices aren't really my cup of tea personally because I'm not very familiar with Super Mario RPG, the Mega Man X/Zero games, or Fatal Fury/King of Fighters, so it's harder for me to pass final judgement on these picks. But I still like the theming you went for with both DLC waves : I think from a fan's POV who doesn't know which fighter would be next, it adds to the excitement of speculating about the new inclusions

 

[Yung Dramps]

Thanks for sharing your roster idea with us, I wanted to share some of my thoughts about it :

Pros :

- I'm a fan of the heroes vs villains concept and the story mode ideas attached to it. It's a nice new direction for the series post-roster cuts to give it some kind of dedicated focus that detracts from Everyone No Longer Being Here.
>> It also opens the way to some cool new character picks that may not feel like top-of-the-pile inclusions in isolation, but all fit the mold of the concept you're going for, like Foreman Spike, Raven Beak, Xehanort, Skull Kid, and Sylux just to name those.

- The total roster size is also nicely balanced and realistic, given the more ambitious focus on a story mode that'd also receive further attention with DLC, something I think is really cool. The different themes for each Fighter Pass are a nice touch as well.

- Base roster wise, I'm happy in particular with the Mario and DK characters kept in, the number of Pokémon fighters, and the remaining miscellaneous Nintendo characters that represent their respective series alone, save for one or two things I'll get to later.

- DLC wise, I agree that Miku is a good shout as the surprise, pretty high-profile pick that expands upon the realm of possibility in terms of roster additions ; I can't quite imagine what her moveset would be like, but there's gotta be some potential there.

Cons :

- The following points are related to Smash Bros relevance/importance discourse surrounding character picks, which I gotta admit is not the most fun thing to discuss because it's in this weird in-between of objectivity and subjectivity, but I reckon is worth bringing up :

1) Kirby at 5 fighters and Zelda at 3+1 counting DLC feels awkward, I know it's not truly a big deal but I reckon they should have the same number of fighters. Something like a 5 and 5 split (maybe adding Sheik to the base roster) or 4 and 4 instead (Bandana Dee or Magolor removed), but yeah it's your call whether you feel this is actually an issue or not really ;

2) Animal Crossing only having one playable character is a similar case, Villager and Isabelle may not stand out much from one another but I imagine one original fighter + one clone/semi-clone is a fair number of fighters given AC's newly-found renown. If the Mother series can have 1 original character + 1 semi-clone + 1 Echo, there's some merit to keeping Villager as well imo ;

3) Having three Xenoblade characters feels like too much, in terms of the series' standing compared to other franchises ;

4) This one is a bit of an odd mention given 3), but I reckon Captain Falcon as a DLC character would not go down well. Here's my thoughts about it :

F-Zero? More like F, Zero relevance hehe (TL;DR at the end if need be)

It's mainly speculation on my part, but I think once serious roster discussion/predictions truly kick off, in the event of sweeping roster cuts people will scrutinize roster decisions a lot more than they have in the past, whether it is for the non-returnees, the base roster additions, and the DLC picks.

From what I've been able to gather over the years, even today, Falcon is still one of those fan favourite, emblematic presences in the roster that may not merit a spot in terms of his own series' place in gaming, but more so as the timeless cool uncle of the roster that represents the frantic, all-out attacking style of playing Smash Bros that many people love.

His absence from the main roster, coupled with having to pay to play as him again, would give this 'afterthought' feel to his inclusion which I don't think will sit well with the hardcore side of the fanbase, and would also be a head-scratcher for more casual fans.

It wouldn't be a sweeping controversy that'd hurt Nintendo's bottom line in any way, but it's the kind of controversial move that'd send the wrong message to fans in a time of tricky transition for the Smash Bros series post-Ultimate.

[TL;DR], Mostly avoiding bad PR and not letting a roster decision regarding a popular character dominate pre-release discourse, which would overshadow the possible improvements + additions to the 1-player modes, online, gameplay, fighter movesets etc.

On a personal level, despite F-Zero's undeniable irrelevance nowadays, I would be disappointed to see the Captain lose his status as a true Smash Bros mainstay.

I think that covers everything I had strong feelings about. Some of the DLC character choices aren't really my cup of tea personally because I'm not very familiar with Super Mario RPG, the Mega Man X/Zero games, or Fatal Fury/King of Fighters, so it's harder for me to pass final judgement on these picks. But I still like the theming you went for with both DLC waves : I think from a fan's POV who doesn't know which fighter would be next, it adds to the excitement of speculating about the new inclusions

A friend of mine pointed out the lack of Final Fantasy rep despite Kingdom Hearts getting an extra character. He then made the genius suggestion of not bringing back Cloud & Sephiroth, but instead adding a Chocobo as a playable fighter. My beef with the FF7 duo was always that they represented that one game and not the franchise in its totality and this would solve that problem in the funniest and most charming way possible. Gilgamesh would also be a viable alternative for the same reason. Point is, I reckon Captain Falcon could be restored to base game with either of those two taking his place in DLC 1 while still keeping the theme.

Also, potential solution I just thought of to the "too much Xenoblade" complaint: Shulk appeared not only in Xenoblade 3's DLC but in 2's as well, each time with a new design. One could pull a Sora and give him all three designs as alt costumes and make that the way the full trilogy is represented

 

[LatiosAndLatias]

Hello everyone!

 

[SandVeil10]

A friend of mine pointed out the lack of Final Fantasy rep despite Kingdom Hearts getting an extra character. He then made the genius suggestion of not bringing back Cloud & Sephiroth, but instead adding a Chocobo as a playable fighter. My beef with the FF7 duo was always that they represented that one game and not the franchise in its totality and this would solve that problem in the funniest and most charming way possible. Gilgamesh would also be a viable alternative for the same reason. Point is, I reckon Captain Falcon could be restored to base game with either of those two taking his place in DLC 1 while still keeping the theme.

Also, potential solution I just thought of to the "too much Xenoblade" complaint: Shulk appeared not only in Xenoblade 3's DLC but in 2's as well, each time with a new design. One could pull a Sora and give him all three designs as alt costumes and make that the way the full trilogy is represented

On the one hand, I think Cloud would be a shoo-in for your DLC 1 theme + the hero vs villain plotline because of his battle prowess ; plus he's got the benefit of being the most recognizable FF character for general audiences. I agree that recurring characters are often better-suited to represent a series, but sometimes you just have that one game that steals the show and it's difficult to ignore the kind of appreciation and recognizability of its lead character for a crossover like Smash.

On the other hand, part of me also thinks a Chocobo as a Smash character would be cute + a fun curveball pick + also fits the theme in its own way + has the benefit of being in every FF game since the 2nd one (I had to look it up). As someone who's never played a FF game, I would prefer Cloud but I wouldn't mind Chocobo at all. I imagine not every Cloud fan would appreciate their character losing out to the goofy yellow bird, but it's the kind of controlled risk that can work out lol (and either way Captain Falcon would be back in the base roster, so happy days).

The idea you had for Shulk is also nice, to try and compromise having something from every numbered Xenoblade entry (spare a thought for XCX) while dropping to 2 reps only. I don't know which one of XC2 or XC3 is the favourite amongst Xenoblade fans, not very familiar with the games either, but picking Mio because she's one of the two protags of the most recent game is understandable.

 

[ULTRA SPACE JAM]

Got bored. Opened this thread and saw a fan roster for Smash. Got a sudden burst of inspiration and made my own. Whoops!

the main roster

the obligatory 2 challenger packs

other notes + thoughts on the whole thing

- Without DLC, the roster is 62 characters strong (Brawler, Swordfighter, and Gunner are all condensed into the Mii slot). With DLC, though, the roster is expanded to 72 characters. Somewhere between Smash 4 and Ultimate in roster size.
- Ganondorf is reworked here. He's been bumped up to his TOTK iteration and now boasts a moveset and some other changes reflecting that. As for specifics regarding those changes... I'd have to get back to you on that.
- Octoling is seperate from Inkling. Slightly less mobile but harder-hitting. There's also some attack differences, too.
- Adeleine and Ribbon work like a cross between the Ice Climbers and Rosalina & Luma. Ribbon is used for certain attacks, like Luma. She can also get knocked out seperately, but she won't come back until your next stock, like the CPU Ice Climber. She's somewhere around as durable as the latter, though. There's a lot more to these two that I haven't quite found a way to say clearly yet. Again, specifics: get back to me on those. I'll still try to explain if anyone's curious.
- In contrast to Adeleine and Ribbon, the Extension Corps function similarly to Pokemon Trainer, with the switching delay and all.
- Yes, that's Doomguy at the very end of Challenger Pack 2. I really didn't have any bright ideas for the "crazy crossover" character, so I just decided to be boring and go with him. It'd be really funny if he actually did end up making it into Smash, though...

 

[Yung Dramps]

Got bored. Opened this thread and saw a fan roster for Smash. Got a sudden burst of inspiration and made my own. Whoops!

the main roster

View attachment 742253

the obligatory 2 challenger packs

View attachment 742241

other notes + thoughts on the whole thing

- Without DLC, the roster is 62 characters strong (Brawler, Swordfighter, and Gunner are all condensed into the Mii slot). With DLC, though, the roster is expanded to 72 characters. Somewhere between Smash 4 and Ultimate in roster size.
- Ganondorf is reworked here. He's been bumped up to his TOTK iteration and now boasts a moveset and some other changes reflecting that. As for specifics regarding those changes... I'd have to get back to you on that.
- Octoling is seperate from Inkling. Slightly less mobile but harder-hitting. There's also some attack differences, too.
- Adeleine and Ribbon work like a cross between the Ice Climbers and Rosalina & Luma. Ribbon can get knocked out seperately, like Luma, but she won't come back until your next stock, like the CPU Ice Climber. She's somewhere around as durable as the latter, though. There's a lot more to these two that I haven't quite found a way to say clearly yet. Again, specifics: get back to me on those. I'll still try to explain if anyone's curious.
- In contrast to Adeleine and Ribbon, the Extension Corps function similarly to Pokemon Trainer, with the switching delay and all.
- Yes, that's Doomguy at the very end of Challenger Pack 2. I really didn't have any bright ideas for the "crazy crossover" character, so I just decided to be boring and go with him. It'd be really funny if he actually did end up making it into Smash, though...

Decent roster, although I am confused at some of the choices. I assume it's kind of the opposite of mine where you have some very specific gameplay ideas without much regard for in-franchise popularity (for instance, Darach is pretty far down the totem pole as far as Kirby villains go while I can only imagine Lucario was cut due to moveset overlap with Mewtwo, although in that case I would genuinely prioritize Lucario for debateably being more popular and not overflowing on Kanto rep).

Also, who are the blonde guy and pink haired fairy in the DLC section?

 

[ULTRA SPACE JAM]

Decent roster, although I am confused at some of the choices. I assume it's kind of the opposite of mine where you have some very specific gameplay ideas without much regard for in-franchise popularity (for instance, Darach is pretty far down the totem pole as far as Kirby villains go while I can only imagine Lucario was cut due to moveset overlap with Mewtwo, although in that case I would genuinely prioritize Lucario for debateably being more popular and not overflowing on Kanto rep).

Yeah. For Daroach specifically, it's a mix of mechanics/gameplay and the fact that I really like Daroach. A better replacement for him would probably be, like, Galacta or Morpho Knight. Even then, Dark Matter probably (definitely) outshines those two as another choice.

As for Lucario... uh. This one's dumb. To be honest with you, I would've felt bad booting M2 out of a roster a second time (see: Brawl). Let's just say Lucario's the 63rd member of the roster and gets added as free DLC on launch day (somewhat similarly to Piranha Plant in Ultimate, except this wouldn't become a paid thing later on).

Also, who are the blonde guy and pink haired fairy in the DLC section?

if i explain anything about those two in detail i don't think i'll be able to stop myself from writing a whole essay but those are euden/the prince and notte (both from dragalia lost, a now-defunct mobile game that nintendo and cygames worked together on. it was awesome)

Being serious for a second, they're mostly there because of my bias towards the game and the fact that they're first-party anyways. I had some pretty cool ideas for them, though! also recognition for nintendo's first original mobile ip but that's whatever

 

[Yung Dramps]

...Huh. You know, come to think of it, there should be more Smash 6 concepts with Dragalia Lost content

 

[Cancel cult]

Morpho Knight.

mark my words, Morpho Knight IS coming in the next game

 

[Arcticblast]

does smogoff have too many letters for you? try smoff instead! two fewer letters, same great experience!

 

[Yung Dramps]

Alright, here's what I feel reasonably comfortable calling the final revision

-Sceptile was swapped out for Young Link. Feels like he should come back in the game where Skull Kid is a major DLC antagonist and unlike Toon Link he represents a much bigger swath of games, half the series has little fella Link including its latest (albeit Zelda-centered) release. Also doubles as classic moveset preservation in case adult Link were to go deeper into BoTW era-specific mechanics like Ultrahand
-Terry was moved to DLC 1 to make way for The Prince. I imagine he'd be a secret character accessed in a super secluded optional dungeon in the story mode, playing into being forgotten and abandoned with a brutally hard fight to unlock him. The Lingering Will of Smash 6. Also sorry Ikeheads
-Rex and Mio were swapped out for Cloud and Sephiroth. Yeah I dunno what I was thinking making a "heroes vs villains" game featuring two other Square Enix characters where these two don't come back
-Captain Falcon was moved to base game with Chocobo taking his place in the DLC
-The "redeemed villains get possessed" plotline is still in place but Meta Knight and Shadow break free relatively early on. Dedede and Magolor, on the other hand, stay possessed for much longer, hence why they are considered members of "Organization XIII"

Honestly I'm really proud of how this turned out, in large part because of you guys' suggestions. Only addition who feels kinda iffy still is Thales but eh whatever gets God-Shattering Star in the game seriously why didn't Byleth in Ultimate come with that song wtf

Oh yeah here's the boss list

 

[Adeleine]

What is "Mega" backward?

What is the only new Gen6 Pokemon to get a Mega?

 

[Yousef-]

anyone know why my instagram feed's suddenly full of clips of rhea ripley? i'm not complaining like but seems a bit random

Some people I know who aren’t inti wrestling still really like her

 

[LeonLeeds]

Cat

 

[RainWaiv]

Alright, here's what I feel reasonably comfortable calling the final revision
View attachment 742319

-Sceptile was swapped out for Young Link. Feels like he should come back in the game where Skull Kid is a major DLC antagonist and unlike Toon Link he represents a much bigger swath of games, half the series has little fella Link including its latest (albeit Zelda-centered) release. Also doubles as classic moveset preservation in case adult Link were to go deeper into BoTW era-specific mechanics like Ultrahand
-Terry was moved to DLC 1 to make way for The Prince. I imagine he'd be a secret character accessed in a super secluded optional dungeon in the story mode, playing into being forgotten and abandoned with a brutally hard fight to unlock him. The Lingering Will of Smash 6. Also sorry Ikeheads
-Rex and Mio were swapped out for Cloud and Sephiroth. Yeah I dunno what I was thinking making a "heroes vs villains" game featuring two other Square Enix characters where these two don't come back
-Captain Falcon was moved to base game with Chocobo taking his place in the DLC
-The "redeemed villains get possessed" plotline is still in place but Meta Knight and Shadow break free relatively early on. Dedede and Magolor, on the other hand, stay possessed for much longer, hence why they are considered members of "Organization XIII"

Honestly I'm really proud of how this turned out, in large part because of you guys' suggestions. Only addition who feels kinda iffy still is Thales but eh whatever gets God-Shattering Star in the game seriously why didn't Byleth in Ultimate come with that song wtf

Oh yeah here's the boss list
View attachment 742329
View attachment 742328

feels like a giant missed opportunity for a guilty gear character for dlc1 lol. really anyone would work but the best ones IMO would be sol or ky for brand recognition or a slightly less serious character like aba/faust/happy chaos to be a bit more in line with smash in general (distinctly excluding bridget may and pot for various personal reasons)

 

[Yousef-]

Cat

Cat

 

[Mechalico]

Cat

More cat