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The leaders of this section are Hiro' and Rage. The leader of the Old Generation Councils is Star.
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
On Discord a few weeks ago, Dhgss and I discussed a couple of third gen specific sim inaccuracies that occur when a Pokemon dies to spikes damage at the end of the turn.
The two mechanics that are inaccurate:
a.) Due to the previous turn's outcome, both sides must send in a new Pokemon. Banette enters the field and immediately faints to Spikes damage, the other side does not reveal any information about what they send in. However on PS this information is forced.
b.) Sand Stream activates in this interaction. On PS it does not.
I've been researching the game code of Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon for the past year or so, and I recently found the function that seems to be handling Solid Rock/Filter/Prism Armor, and it does not match what I had expected based on Bulbapedia - I found the equivalent functions in XY and ORAS, and aside from ORAS adding a function call to handle Delta Stream removing Flying's weaknesses...
XY - function at 0x000BC5B0, passes 0x04C9, based on context I think it's effectively multiplying by (0x1000 - 0x4C)/0x1000, or about 71% of the pre-Ability damage (XY is the most different from USUM, so there's bits that compiled rather differently, so I'm not quite so sure about this)
ORAS - function at 0x000C5CB8, passes 0x1AB8 with reference to defense, effectively divides by 6840/4096 ~ 1.67, which almost exactly 60% of the pre-Ability damage
USUM - funcion at 0x000D3920, function identical or ORAS except for the different offsets
Is this the expected/known behavior or is this something somehow missed (which I feel would be shocking, considering Mega Aggron in UU)? I'm mostly interested because if the damage reduction has been thoroughly tested on console, then I'm missing something significant here.
I've been researching the game code of Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon for the past year or so, and I recently found the function that seems to be handling Solid Rock/Filter/Prism Armor, and it does not match what I had expected based on Bulbapedia - I found the equivalent functions in XY and ORAS, and aside from ORAS adding a function call to handle Delta Stream removing Flying's weaknesses...
XY - function at 0x000BC5B0, passes 0x04C9, based on context I think it's effectively multiplying by (0x1000 - 0x4C)/0x1000, or about 71% of the pre-Ability damage (XY is the most different from USUM, so there's bits that compiled rather differently, so I'm not quite so sure about this)
ORAS - function at 0x000C5CB8, passes 0x1AB8 with reference to defense, effectively divides by 6840/4096 ~ 1.67, which almost exactly 60% of the pre-Ability damage
USUM - funcion at 0x000D3920, function identical or ORAS except for the different offsets
Is this the expected/known behavior or is this something somehow missed (which I feel would be shocking, considering Mega Aggron in UU)? I'm mostly interested because if the damage reduction has been thoroughly tested on console, then I'm missing something significant here.
Filter/Solid Rock/Prism Armor have always been final damage modifiers with a value of 3072 (0xC00). It was definitely that way in Gen 5 and in Gen 7, and I checked in Gen 6 and 9 and it's also 3072 there as well.
The only modifier I can think of that is 6840 is Gravity (accuracy).
Filter/Solid Rock/Prism Armor have always been final damage modifiers with a value of 3072 (0xC00). It was definitely that way in Gen 5 and in Gen 7, and I checked in Gen 6 and 9 and it's also 3072 there as well.
The only modifier I can think of that is 6840 is Gravity (accuracy).
Not only does Lightning Rod not redirect Sky Drop when the latter is under the effect of Electrify, at least as of USUM, Storm Drain also checks to make sure the move is not Sky Drop before redirecting, although it is impossible for that situation to occur.
Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but what happens if a Ditto or Mew tries to use transform or impostor on a glitch Pokemon? The result depends on the generation or the specific glitch Pokemon, right?
ADV (aka Gen. III aka Gen. 3) Doubles GBA Port Priority
I'm posting this here for posterity. While it's mostly irrelevant due to most ADV Doubles battles taking place on Showdown (which implements Switch Priority Clause Mod), ADV DOU battles may rarely be played via GBA netplay, and in-person Orre Colosseum/PL2005 and JAA2006 battles are more often played via GBA instead of GCN for logistics reasons.
Slots
As known to at least some ROM hack modders, the GBA games assign priority to the different Pokémon positions (I will call these slots for now). Left/right is relative to that player's perspective. Please see the photo for clarity.
Slot 0: Player 1's Left-side Pokémon
Slot 1: Player 2's Left-side Pokémon
Slot 2: Player 1's Right-side Pokémon
Slot 3: Player 2's Right-side Pokémon
For brevity, the rest of this post will refer to the slots as [0], [1], [2], [3].
Damage
Surf damages Pokémon in slot order: [0], [2] OR [1], [3]. I assume that this applies to other moves that hit both opponents (e.g. Icy Wind, Rock Slide)
Explosion damages Pokémon in slot order: [0], [1], [2], [3]. I assume that this applies to other moves that hit the rest of the field (e.g. Earthquake, Teeter Dance).
Manual Switching
Manual switches occur in slot order: [0], [1], [2], [3]
Intimidate activates immediately upon switch-in. I assume that this applies to other abilities that activate upon switch-in (e.g. Drought, Drizzle).
Post-KO Switching
After Explosion, both players simultaneously and blindly select all required switch ins
Switch-ins occur in slot order: [0], [1], [2], [3]
Intimidate occurs after all switch-ins in slot order of the Intimidator: [0], [1], [2], [3]
I assume that this applies to all scenarios where more than one Pokémon is KOed by a single move (e.g. Earthquake, Double-Edge via recoil).
End-of-Turn Effects
(e.g. Sand damage, Poison. I have not tested this yet)
Practical Conclusions
When playing in a GBA battle, Player 2 has a slight advantage when it comes to Intimidate and weather wars
For this reason, I recommend port priority in netplay or in-person GBA battles should be decided via "random" arbitration (e.g. coin flip, rock-paper-scissors).
However, left vs. right Pokémon position is just as important as Player 1 vs. Player 2. It's beneficial for players to do the following when possible:
Switch-in an Intimidator (e.g. Tauros) into the right slot
Switch-in physical attackers (e.g. Snorlax) into the right slot
Switch-in setters of desired weather (e.g. Groudon) into the right slot if weather is not up
Select lead order that encourages the above. For example, lead ([0] Latias, [2] Metagross) instead of ([0] Metagross, [2] Latias) since Metagross is threatened by Overheat, which Snorlax covers. This helps account for a possible same-turn Tauros switch-in.
In both the ADV DOU and Orre Colosseum/PL2005 metagames, there are no relevant situations for port priority and slots outside of Intimidate. In JAA2006, weather is an additional situation.
Battles on XD have a different set of mechanics for damage order, switching, and post-KO switching, which requires further research and codification.
Hello, I have recently looked into the mechanics of item activation in Generation 3, more specifically White Herb.
I recently attended the Pokemon VG European International Championships and at the event organised a Gen 3 VGC tournament. During the tournament, I observed a strange mechanic with White Herb, which was that a player led double Intimidate, the White Herb activated at the end of T0 and thus reset the attack stat to +0 which differs from the behaviour on showdown, which will activate the White Herb after the first Intimidate drop and end the turn at -1 attack. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3orrecolosseum-2377208213
Additionally, one of the players saved a game which exhibited more strange behaviour:
With this in mind, I devised some tests to determine how items activated:
Turn 0: Arcanine and Mawile Intimidate, Dusclops White Herb should activate at the end of the turn.
Turn 1: Mawile uses Tickle into Arcanine, which activates the White Herb at the end of the move.
Turn 2: Dusclops uses Will-O-Wisp, burning Mawile (holding Petaya berry). Mawile’s Health is brought below 25% after burn damage but the Petaya Berry does not activate.
Turn 3: Gyarados Replaces Arcanine, Gengar (in P1 Slot 2) uses Sleep Talk and after Gengar moves, White Herb activates returning Gengar to +0 attack. At the end of the turn, Mawile’s Petaya Berry activates.
Turn 4: (On cartridge) due to port priority, Gyarados switches out first and is replaced by Arcanine, activates intimidate and then Gengar switches out into Snorlax. Mawile faints to burn and is replaced by Granbull, whose intimidate activates but Snorlax’s White Herb is not consumed.
Turn 5: Gyarados replaces Granbull, intimidates Snorlax again without activating White Herb and only then does Arcanine Charm after which Snorlax’s White Herb activates and attack resets to +0.
Turn 1: Metagross switches to Gyarados, intimidate reduces Dusclops and Snorlax’s attack, (on cartridge) Dusclops’ (P1 Slot 1) White Herb activates resetting its attack to +0, then Mawile uses Flamethrower targeting Dusclops, then Snorlax’s White Herb activates and Snorlax uses curse.
(on showdown) Dusclops’ White Herb activates only after Mawile’s Flamethrower.
Turn 2: Set up.
Turn 3: Gyarados switches into Granbull, intimidates Dusclops and Gengar, then Gengar attacks and only after Gengar’s move is completed, White Herb activates resetting Gengar’s attack stat to +0.
Summary
These tests verified the three possible activation conditions for White Herb (as well as any status heal berry such as Lum Berry).
End of Turn
End of move/attack
Switch in
However there is a very notable bug that means that White Herb only activates on switch in if the White Herb Holder is in position 0 which as Mosquito explained in the above post, means Player 1, Slot 1. Meaning this is an unintentional instance of port priority in Pokemon Emerald (it should loop for all Pokemon on the field), the intended mechanic is for all White Herbs to trigger if conditions are met (a stat is reduced) after switching in, including resetting Intimidate drops.
Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness fixes this bug and so my view is that Showdown should reflect the intended mechanic, as currently it seems (I may be wrong) that Showdown does not use the third activation condition correctly. From my observations (see the beginning of turn 4 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3doublesou-2377253302) the item activates after switching in but before abilities like Intimidate. This would explain all the differences in behaviour between Showdown and cartridge that I have observed.
(Perspective of Player 1) Snorlax in slot 1, White Herb activates after switching in only for Snorlax
(Perspective of Player 1) Gengar in slot 1, White Herb activates after switching in only for Gengar
(Perspective of Player 1) Dusclops in Player 2 slot 1, White Herb does not activate after switching for any Pokemon
Test that White Herb resets both intimidate attack drops on a double intimidate lead
Test that White Herb activates after switching in and after ability activation
All the White Herb tests on PS for modern gens reflect this same behaviour, plus after right Mega Evolution (e.g. Mega Manectric's Intimidate). Other items that seem to activate in the same timings are Mirror Herb and Eject Pack. These were previously activating right after boosts, but they are activating at those events now.
In a Gen 6 Triple Battle, if the center mon tries to use Acupressure on one of its fainted allies, does it always redirect to the user, or is there a chance for it to redirect to the other ally?
Oops, I have one more question. In Gen 4, if a Toxic Orb is thrown at a Pokémon with Klutz, does it poison the target? I tested it in SV, and it does, so I assume it works the same from Gen 5 to 9. According to Bulbapedia, in Gen 4, items should not activate. (It was Embargo).
Oops, I have one more question. In Gen 4, if a Toxic Orb is thrown at a Pokémon with Klutz, does it poison the target? I tested it in SV, and it does, so I assume it works the same from Gen 5 to 9. According to Bulbapedia, in Gen 4, items should not activate.
Everybody knows that berries—specifically HP-healing berries—have strange activation timings. In modern generations, healing berries activate after taking damage, except in the case of self-inflicted confusion damage. I already submitted a pull request to fix this timing: https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-showdown/pull/10902
In Gen 3, healing berries activate at the end of the turn.
However, I recently came across a short clip from a Gen 4 video showing a Sitrus Berry activating after a U-turn, after the new Pokémon had already switched in.
For the sake of it, I tested it myself and confirmed the behavior. I also tested in Gen 5, and Sitrus Berry activates immediately after taking damage just like in modern generations (thank god!).
Now, I'd like any help in gathering evidence or clues about berry activation timing in Gen 4 so we can implement it accurately. Here are a few specific questions I have:
Does Sitrus Berry activate between entry hazard damage and ability activations (like Intimidate), or does it activate after Intimidate? It activates after Intimidate.
Does Sitrus Berry activate after all abilities have activated or does it activate after the holder's ability activates?
Are there any move effects that occur after Sitrus Berry activates?
Does Lum Berry activate between Toxic Spikes and ability activations, or does it activate after the ability? It activates after Intimidate.
If a Pokémon uses U-turn on a target with Flame Body and gets burned, does Lum Berry activate before it switches out?
Does Sitrus Berry activate in the middle of residual damage (end-of-turn effects) or at the very end after all residuals have resolved? It activates in the middle of residual effects.
