Gen 5 BW Monotype

[Neko]

Banner by Moosical

BW Monotype is the official Monotype metagame for Gen 5. Being the first one to have a ladder, it is regarded as "the original Monotype generation" or "the Weather Wars generation" due to permanent weather being its most remarkable mechanic. Like ORAS, it is still played in both room and forum tournaments, albeit less often.
​

Notably Different Mechanics:

• Fairy type does not exist; most become either Normal-types or have their part-Fairy typing removed
• The abilities Drizzle, Drought, Sand Stream, and Snow Warning enable permanent weather
• Sand Stream + Sand Rush and Drizzle + Swift Swim are not allowed
• Dark and Ghost are resisted by Steel
• Higher base power of following moves: Draco Meteor (140), Overheat (140), Hydro Pump (120), Thunder (120), Fire Blast (120), Hurricane (120), Heat Wave (100), Surf (95), Ice Beam (95), Flamethrower (95), Thunderbolt (95), Dragon Pulse (90), Hidden Power (70)
• Lower base power of following moves: Knock Off (20), Low Sweep (60), Energy Ball (80)
• Critical hits do double damage instead of 1.5
• Defog does not get rid of hazards
• Sleep turns reset upon switching out
• Powder moves affect Grass-type Pokemon, and Electric-types can be paralyzed by Thunder Wave

Banlist [Gen 5 OU]:
- Latios
+ Gems

Viability Rankings

VR

Bug

S Rank
Forretress
Scizor
Volcarona

A Rank
Galvantula
Heracross

B Rank
Armaldo
Yanmega

C Rank
Accelgor

D Rank
Durant
Scolipede
Venomoth

Dark

S Rank
Hydreigon
Tyranitar

A Rank
Sableye
Scrafty

B Rank
Cacturne
Drapion
Krookodile
Mandibuzz
Sharpedo
Weavile

C Rank
Honchkrow

D Rank
Bisharp
Crawdaunt
Umbreon
Zoroark

Dragon

S Rank
Dragonite
Hydreigon
Latias

A Rank
Garchomp
Kyurem-Black

B Rank
Kyurem
Salamence

C Rank
Druddigon
Haxorus

D Rank
Kingdra

Electric

S Rank
Magnezone
Raikou
Thundurus-Therian
Zapdos

A Rank
Rotom-Wash

B Rank
Rotom-Mow
Stunfisk

C Rank
Lanturn
Rotom-Heat

D Rank
Eelektross
Galvantula

Fighting

S Rank
Keldeo
Scrafty

A Rank
Breloom
Cobalion
Heracross
Toxicroak

B Rank
Mienshao
Terrakion

C Rank
Infernape
Lucario

D Rank
Conkeldurr
Gallade
Virizion

Fire

S Rank
Ninetales
Victini
Volcarona

A Rank
Heatran
Infernape

B Rank
Rotom-Heat
Torkoal

C Rank
Chandelure
Darmanitan
Entei

D Rank
Charizard
Moltres

Flying

S Rank
Dragonite
Xatu

A Rank
Gliscor
Gyarados
Landorus-Therian
Skarmory
Thundurus-Therian

B Rank
Salamence
Tornadus

C Rank
Zapdos

D Rank
Aerodactyl
Archeops
Crobat
Honchkrow
Moltres
Staraptor
Togekiss
Yanmega

Ghost

S Rank Froslass
Gengar
Jellicent
Sableye

A Rank
Golurk

B Rank
Chandelure

C Rank
Mismagius

D Rank
Cofagrigus
Dusclops
Rotom

Grass

S Rank
Breloom

A Rank
Celebi
Ferrothorn

B Rank
Cradily
Sceptile
Shaymin
Virizion

C Rank
Amoonguss
Roserade
Rotom-Mow
Tangrowth

D Rank
Abomasnow
Lilligant
Ludicolo
Venusaur
Whimsicott

Ground

S Rank
Gastrodon

A Rank
Excadrill
Garchomp
Gliscor
Hippowdon
Landorus-Therian
Mamoswine

B Rank
Nidoking
Nidoqueen

C Rank
Krookodile

D Rank
Donphan
Rhyperior
Swampert

Ice

S Rank
Abomasnow
Cloyster
Froslass
Kyurem-Black
Walrein

A Rank
Mamoswine

B Rank
Kyurem
Weavile

C Rank
Piloswine

D Rank
Cryogonal
Regice
Rotom-Frost

Normal

S Rank
Staraptor

A Rank
Chansey
Ditto
Porygon2
Togekiss

B Rank
Clefable
Meloetta
Snorlax

C Rank
Porygon-Z

D Rank
Ambipom
Blissey
Cinccino
Smeargle

Poison

S Rank
Gengar
Skuntank
Tentacruel
Toxicroak

A Rank
Crobat
Nidoking
Nidoqueen

B Rank
Scolipede

C Rank
Amoonguss

D Rank
Drapion
Roserade
Weezing

Psychic

S Rank
Alakazam
Jirachi

A Rank
Celebi
Latias
Reuniclus
Slowbro
Starmie
Victini

B Rank
Metagross

C Rank
Bronzong
Gallade
Xatu

D Rank
Azelf
Cresselia
Meloetta
Mew
Uxie

Rock

S Rank
Cradily
Terrakion
Tyranitar

A Rank
Archeops
Omastar
Rhyperior

D Rank
Aerodactyl
Aggron
Armaldo
Crustle
Kabutops

Steel

S Rank
Heatran

A Rank
Excadrill
Ferrothorn
Jirachi
Magnezone
Scizor
Skarmory

B Rank
Empoleon

C Rank
Metagross

D Rank
Bronzong
Cobalion
Forretress
Lucario

Water

S Rank
Keldeo
Swampert

A Rank
Empoleon
Gyarados
Politoed

B Rank
Jellicent
Starmie
Tentacruel

C Rank
Cloyster
Lanturn
Rotom-Wash
Sharpedo
Slowking
Suicune
Vaporeon

D Rank
Alomomola
Gastrodon
Kingdra
Qwilfish
Seismitoad
Slowbro

Type Viability Rankings

Type VR

These types are ordered by viability, even when within rankings.
S Rank

A Rank

B Rank

C Rank

D Rank

Sample Teams

Sample Teams

click on the sprites to get each team's importable!
Bug
- Offensive Bug by Crashy

Dark
- Cacturne Dark by Chaitanya

Dragon
- Dual Dragon Dance Offense by Attribute

Electric
- Stunfisk Electric by Sabella

Fighting
- Toxicroak Fighting by Chaitanya

-Terrakion + Mienshao Fighting by Chaitanya

Fire
- Expert Belt Infernape Fire by Bondie

Flying
- Balanced Flying by Crashy

Ghost
- Ghost by Crashy

Grass
- Grass by Jyph

Ground
- Offensive Sand Ground by Chaitanya

- Nidoking Ground by Chaitanya

Ice
- Specs Froslass Ice by Crashy

Normal
- Normal by Crashy

Poison
- Balanced poison by Crashy

Psychic
by Attribute & sasha

Rock
- Offensive Rock by Crashy

Steel
- Balanced Steel by Chaitanya

Water
- Offensive Water by Chaitanya ​

Team Tournaments Index

Team Tournament Index

BW Monotype is played in some team tours, as shown below:
MPLX Replays
MPLIX Replays
BLTVII Replays

Pre-Latios ban
MPLVIII Replays
BLTVI Replays
MWP IV Replays (Bo3 Oldgens)
MPLVII Replays
BLTVReplays
MPLVI Replays

Miscellaneous Resources

Articles

Pre-Latios Ban
Reintroduction to BW Monotype by Felines
Introduction to BW Monotype by Vid

Changelog

26/08/2024

• Added Smogon Dex references in the VR, thank you Attribute for filling it up.

04/09/2023

• VR and Type Viability rankings were updated. Thank you so much to Attribute North Booty crashy and Meta
• Removed the Following Sample team(s):
  • Balanced Rain Water by Jolly Togekiss
• Added the Following Sample team(s):
  • Dual Dragon Dance Offense by Attribute
• Added a Tournament Index and Miscellaneous resources section.

 

[Ronman5]

Welp as an avid player of BW back in the day, here is one of my old teams

Bug

Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Giga Drain
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Heracross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge/Pursuit
- Earthquake/Stone edge

Forretress @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Rapid Spin
- Rock Slide

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Roost

Yanmega @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect
- Air Slash

Galvantula @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Bug is a terrific offensive powerhouse in the BW era, and this team is designed to basically hit fast and hard.

Forre is the normal lead for the team, being the main source of hazard control, and is the go to mon to basically set up rocks, and then either explode, spin or slide (To handle some threats to this like Lead Aerodactyl flying who with taunt can shut you down, but with rockslide you can 2KO it)

Volcarona is normal old volcarona, however it has HP ground to handle the pesky core that messes with Bug type (And a lot of types in general with BW) the rather infamous Skarm Heatran core.

Scizor and Yanmega I nickname the "dragon busters" as once you have rocks up against dragon these two mons can easily sweep dragon, granted in different ways. Yanmega is also nice to have cause of the speed control it offers

Galv doesn't have much use in general but it makes a very good water counter, as Giga drain counters Swampert, the main switch in to Galv, and thunder handles the rest.. It has hp ice in there when it isn't facing water based teams as the two more popular types (Dragon, ground and flying) feature a few mons who are 4X weak to ice such as Chomp, Dnite, and Lando T

And lastly Heracross. Cross is the mon meant to punch holes in opposing teams. It also is there to threaten a few sweepers. If positioned right Cross can net a few kos and get a much higher attack stat. I prefer Edge + EQ but thats my thing. others might want pursuit to ko mons who just go in and attack once then swap like Victini.

Overall this like a lot of my bug teams served me exemplorarily well back in BW and hope it serves newer BW players very well too.

 

[Dharma]

ice team for gen 5

icy drip squad

Cryogonal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
- Blizzard
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
- Blizzard / Ice Beam
- Roost

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake

Cloyster @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Hydro Pump

Abomasnow @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Blizzard / Ice Beam
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earthquake

Walrein @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Surf
- Toxic

desc.

a team i've been using in every single room tour for the past month or so, been working out quite well. cba making custom evs or whatever so if you find some optimal spread then cheerio. blizzard is a super good move obviously but i can some tough times vs ground now and then since it's so dependent on hail, so up to you which you want to run.

 

[Ronman5]

ice team for gen 5

icy drip squad

Cryogonal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
- Blizzard
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
- Blizzard / Ice Beam
- Roost

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake

Cloyster @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Hydro Pump

Abomasnow @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Blizzard / Ice Beam
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earthquake

Walrein @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Surf
- Toxic

desc.

a team i've been using in every single room tour for the past month or so, been working out quite well. cba making custom evs or whatever so if you find some optimal spread then cheerio. blizzard is a super good move obviously but i can some tough times vs ground now and then since it's so dependent on hail, so up to you which you want to run.

I like the team but i would suggest swapping Mamoswines ability from Oblivious to Thick fat since not many people go for attract strats at all... and thick that is better overall for the fire protection that him and Walrein provide

Also your team is likely to face trouble with fighting like usual... maybe try Froslass as well as a semi check to some fighting mons that are used on other types such as band Gallade on Psychic, or specs Keldeo on water

as for some other stuff I personally like mixed attacking Kyurem but normally with HP fire to counter Ferrothorn when it switches in (since it will always switch in on Kyurem black) this lets it net a ko on Ferrothorn on switches as hp fire kyurem 2hkos ferrothorn, and 1hko forretress for tho
se who use bug type as it bypasses sturdy.

anyways take my advice if you want, these are just things ive noticed while playing with Ice type in gen 5 whilst in the past

 

[Dharma]

I like the team but i would suggest swapping Mamoswines ability from Oblivious to Thick fat since not many people go for attract strats at all... and thick that is better overall for the fire protection that him and Walrein provide

Also your team is likely to face trouble with fighting like usual... maybe try Froslass as well as a semi check to some fighting mons that are used on other types such as band Gallade on Psychic, or specs Keldeo on water

as for some other stuff I personally like mixed attacking Kyurem but normally with HP fire to counter Ferrothorn when it switches in (since it will always switch in on Kyurem black) this lets it net a ko on Ferrothorn on switches as hp fire kyurem 2hkos ferrothorn, and 1hko forretress for tho
se who use bug type as it bypasses sturdy.

anyways take my advice if you want, these are just things ive noticed while playing with Ice type in gen 5 whilst in the past

oblivious on mamo is to not be affected by taunt, since it's a suicide lead set (note the minimum IVs and endeavor-ice shard), so it's not really meant to take hits in the first place, let alone from fire moves.

i guess you could somehow fit froslass, but that would mean getting rid of the only form of emergency hazard removal on the team in cryogonal, which i dont think would be good. fighting's a shitty MU anyways, so might as well prep for other MUs better.

hp fire on kyurem seems alright but between the other hp fire users on the team + kyurem having access to life orb blizzard which dents ferro anyways and walrein being able to outstall it if need be, i dont think hp fire on kyurem is too important but that might just be me.

Edit: as Yami posted below, I was wrong in thinking Oblivious blocks taunt, my bad. Regardless, I would still run oblivious just so I don't take reduced damage from stray fire moves, as I want to get the hp as low as I can for endeavor

 

[Rei]

oblivious on mamo is to not be affected by taunt, since it's a suicide lead set (note the minimum IVs and endeavor-ice shard), so it's not really meant to take hits in the first place, let alone from fire moves.

i guess you could somehow fit froslass, but that would mean getting rid of the only form of emergency hazard removal on the team in cryogonal, which i dont think would be good. fighting's a shitty MU anyways, so might as well prep for other MUs better.

hp fire on kyurem seems alright but between the other hp fire users on the team + kyurem having access to life orb blizzard which dents ferro anyways and walrein being able to outstall it if need be, i dont think hp fire on kyurem is too important but that might just be me.

Hi, in gen 5, Oblivious does not block Taunt, only attract. It only blocks Taunt gen 6 and up. You can read about it here https://www.smogon.com/dex/bw/abilities/oblivious/

 

[Ronman5]

Hi since I’ve been helping Dieu out so much it’s made me decide I want to make a lot more samples to help newer users understand this meta when users like myself, Jt, Crashy, Jyph etc finally quit mons

Psychic

Gallade (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Zen Headbutt
- Drain Punch

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 220 HP / 126 SpA / 162 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Baton Pass
- Earth Power

Victini @ Choice Band
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- U-turn
- Bolt Strike
- Brick Break

Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt

Azelf @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Thunder Wave
- Trick
- Fire Punch

This is a very good team to smash steel and water, it’s a nice basic team to learn the ropes on while still being nice and effective

Azelf is a suicide lead made to counter most leads with its great speed, the type coverage it has are for once it’s done it’s taunt/sr combo to badly damage or punish the mons it’s coming in on specifically ones like Ferrothorn, Forretress and Garchomp

Gallade Is one of the best mons to smash Steel for psychic, I made it choice band and Adament because that way steels only safe check (Skarmory) gets 2 shot with or without rocks.

Celebi is support through NP and BP to Latios, but is effective at countering water teams outside of Tentacruel and Gyarados

Latios and Victini are cleaners,with vic being the backup steel counter. Latios should be baton passed into by Celebi to get NP buffs but works fine without, Victini has brick break in case Gallade dies and so it can 2 shot the best counter to it normally on steel in heatran

and lastly Jirachi is just it’s standard annoyance scarf set common for gen5

I’ll likely post more teams soon

 

[hex]

Hi, with the recent Latios ban we need new samples, I know it's quite early for this but I figured we should get some new ones anyway for now until the meta settles then different ones can be created if necessary, I just thought this would be good for now, if they need more work ping me on cord.

Meloetta + Lati Psy - by Me
Band Gallade Psy - by Me
Scarf Healing Wish Lati Psy - by Attribute (thanks for the help!)

also ty to crashy who looked at my teams to let me know if they were viable
ill probably try to make dragon ones soon but i encourage other people to hop in and get building!

 

[Neko]

BW Monotype Resources have been updated! Here's what changed:

• VR and Type Viability rankings were updated. Thank you so much to Attribute North Booty crashy and Meta
• Removed the Following Sample team(s):
  • Balanced Rain Water by Jolly Togekiss
• Added the Following Sample team(s):
  • Dual Dragon Dance Offense by Attribute
• Added a Tournament Index and Miscellaneous resources section.

 

[North]

With MPL coming up I wanted to give my thoughts on the current meta. While I don't think much has changed since the last VR update, there are some things worth mentioning

Types

Psychic is the best type in the tier by far. It can pick and choose its matchups in a way that no other type is able to do. Between Reuniclus, Gallade, Celebi, Starmie, and any of the random moves/sets you can throw onto Alakazam/Latias, you can easily customize whatever type you want to beat (with the exception of fire, but I'll get to that later). This makes building to beat psychic incredibly frustrating for every other type. You just need to accept that you're going to lose to certain psychic variants no matter how well you play.

I consider fighting the second best type in the tier. Its matchup spread into the top types is incredibly strong if built correctly. Its matchup into ground and water are super easy if you build with beating them in mind. Psychic isn't all that scary if they lack gallade, and still winnable if they do have it. Fighting massively benefits from psychic scaring away poison, flying, and dragon, types that would otherwise be scary if you drop Terrakion.

Not much to say here. You lose to the psychics and fightings that want to beat you, but beat them if they don't. It's a big beneficiary of water usage going down with psychics rise. It's a solid choice with a generally positive matchup spread, but losing to the top 2 types hold it back.

While I don't think water is as bad as it may seem, a 40% and 33% winrate in the last MPL and MWP respectively is not good. If you are not adapting water to stand a chance against fighting and psychic you are in for a horrible time. I think eq Gyarados is absolutely mandatory, and Seismitoad is a must if you don't want to get 6-0d by bulky Starmie. I can't say water is in a good spot right now, but if it keeps dipping in usage, so will its counters.

This is the biggest change from 2 years ago in my opinion. Fire is the only type capable of beating pretty much every variation of psychic. If psychic's 70% usage in the last MPL means anything to you, this should be a big deal. What's even better is that it's matchup spread into top types isn't even that bad. It's very good into fighting without Terrakion, playable into water and ground, and dumpsters steel. Dragon usage being in the dumps is a huge boon too. Fire should see way more usage than it does right now.

I hate steel. It has the worst matchup spread imaginable. Bad into fighting, bad into ground, bad into water, bad into fire, and by some sick twist of fate it doesn't even beat psychic if they tech for you. I think you can make choices when building to fix one of these matchups, but not without completely giving up another.

I think my biggest hot take is that dragon usage is a lot lower than it should be. Yeah it isn't great into a lot of psychics, but usage of non scarf latias is higher than normal. Slowbro isn't nearly as ubiquitous as it once was. Combine this with a great fighting matchup, a great fire matchup, and a great water matchup, and dragon becomes a real threat again. It's obviously a little matchup fishy, but I think the odds that it gets the matchup is higher than ever.

The last type I'll speak on. I really don't like flying, but it's probably better than I give it credit for. Ignoring the obvious issue of relying on Xatu to not insta lose games to rocks, Flying doesn't really get the defensive pieces to really stand up to Psychic in a way that I want it to. Ice beamers like Latias, Slowbro, and Starmie aren't really answerable defensively. The counterplay to scald is dodging the burn. It just kinda has to give up beating a ton of psychic variants to still be comfortable into other types. That being said, the matchups into the other types really aren't all that bad. A good fighting, and a better water than I would expect with taunt dd Gyarados. Flying has its place, but I can't rate it much higher than most things above it.

My Rankings

S Rank

A+ Rank

A- Rank

B Rank

C Rank

D Rank

Pokemon

A -> S

Latias is the best pokemon in the tier. It's the glue that keeps psychic as dominant as it is. Scarf is by far its best set in my opinion. It hits a speed tier that no type can contest. Trick makes it a nightmare to answer defensively. Not many types get more than one defensive dragon resist, and they all hate eating a scarf. Not to mention how that opens the door for the other fast psychics on the team like Alakazam to clean up. Latias can switch up its coverage moves too. Ice beam, surf, and hp fire are all valuable offensive options. Defensively it can even go with cm roost or healing wish. Latias is the reason most matchups against psychic are so warped. It just gets to do so much against so many types that you can easily tailor the rest of the team to deal with the specifics. If tiering action is ever considered going forward, Latias is the #1 suspect.

C -> B

I will admit it's probably my fault Gallade is here in the first place, but it's better than what I had ranked it a few years ago. Gallade is the best answer psychic can have into Scrafty. If you want to make sure you beat fighting, this is the pokemon to do it. I stand by that Gallade is a worse option than something else for beating the other top types, but it holds a niche for fighting.

S -> A
D -> B
C -> D

I'm listing these all together because they all serve the same role, electric immune. Water doesn't really have the space to fit more than one of them, so you have to pick your favorite. Swampert is best pokemon here thanks to its better defensive stats and wider movepool, but Seisemtoad's water immunity is invaluable. Seismitoad is the only pokemon on water that can stand up to thunder/scald/recover Starmie. Granted as water's usage falls, so should defensive Starmie's, but if it a threat worth considering I will end up choosing Seismitoad for the electric immunity over Swampert.

Lanturn is just Seismitoad but worse. No water immunity means you're susceptible to scald burns. Worst of all it forces rocks onto Empoleon. I wouldn't consider using it over Seismitoad.

A -> S

I don't think you can build a water team without an Empoleon that stands a chance of beating psychic. Not only is it one of the best psychic resists water can choose, but it's the only dragon resist available. If you don't want to lose a pokemon every time Latias comes in, you need to have Empoleon.

A -> S

Toxicroak is the most important pokemon in the mirror. Bulk up singlehandedly 6-0s fighting barring silly stuff like hp flying Keldeo. It's so important we saw people switching Toxicroak's fourth move to earthquake in MWP just to win the Toxicroak 1v1. You can't build a fighting team without this pokemon if you want to beat other fighting. It's also the best pokemon for beating water. Once you get through the ground type, nothing except earthquake Gyarados stands in your way of winning.

Looking forward to MPL, I want people to take a look at psychic's usage throughout the tour. Its 70% usage last year is unacceptably high. Consider bringing fire (or even bug) more often than you otherwise would. If that's not enough, I would love to see some more discussion about a potential Latias suspect.

 

[PandaDoux]

Yo i started playing the tier a few months ago and it is a lot of fun, just making a post about my thoughts on the tier coz i want to

Types

S Tier - Meta defining types

It's the best type of the tier, it feels like it has a good MU against pretty much everything, it has a lot of different options allowing it to choose which MU you wanna win against while still being at least decent against types you didn't really take into account in the builder. Latias is definitely THE meta-defining Pokemon of the tier right now imo which contributes to Psychic being so dominant in the meta.

Fighting is just an all-around solid type, similar to Psychic it's kinda able to get good MUs against everything and even able to win against Psychic with Scrafty + Scarf Heracross, one downside of the type compared to Psychic is that i feel like there aren't as many viable options available, there are like what 8, maybe 9 different Pokemons that are good and the rest is kinda niche, whereas Psychic has at least 10 good Pokemons to choose from with some being able to run completely different sets.

A Tier - Solid types

Ground is just really solid, it can't cover as many MUs as the types above because if a team really wants to beat Ground, i feel like it will beat it with no real fighting chance, however Ground is still an overall solid type against pretty much anything that isn't built to counter it and has the advantage of being good into Fire, unlike Psychic & Fighting that generally tend to have a bad MU against this type.

Fire excels at beating Psychic & Fighting but struggles to beat Ground & Water due to Hippo & Politoed being able to remove the sun pretty easily and Torkoal not being able to spin against any member of the team comfortably. There aren't as many options available so you can't spam this type without getting punished but Fire is a solid option to consider, especially if you're expecting one of the top types.

Water has everything it needs to be a solid type, the type in itself is good both offensively and defensively and it has so many options to choose from that you could play Water all the time and still be able to surprise your opponent with stuff, however i feel like Water struggles to cover as many MUs as the types above naturally, i don't feel like any type is an insta-loss but i also don't feel like you can count on Water to get good MUs against plenty of stuff at the same time.

B Tier - Fine

Flying is not as solid as the types above but it feels like someone that outplays with the type will just always win the game, i don't really see anything that is very bad for Flying but at the same time i feel like one mistake can completely ruin your game, i'm especially thinking about the Xatu interaction since having Xatu as your only way of controlling hazards is pretty bad, but not a disaster nonetheless. Not a type i'd bring comfortably against anything but if you want to snipe Fighting or other MUs that your team is good against while still having a winpath against other types Flying is a good option.

Steel is generally good into Psychic while still being able to have playable MUs against the types of your choice, being good into Psychic while having playable MUs into other good types instantly makes it a decent type to consider.

Electric feels good into a lot of types because many types lack an Electric-immunity (Psychic, Fighting, Fire primarly) while still having good utility Pokemons to cover some MUs more easily.

Poison looks fine, it has immunities to both of its weaknesses and has a handful of good Pokemons to choose from, it's good into Fighting and can cover a couple of other MUs decently while having access to Tentacruel as a spinner, it's fine but it doesn't feel as overall solid as types ranked higher.

C Tier - Niche (ranked in alphabetical order from now on)

Bug is really good against Psychic and has probably a decent MU against Ground & Water, but i feel like there are other offensive types that are overall better. Kinda overrated for what it is based on how often it's used imo.

Dark is a great type to snipe Psychic and still has decent options to get playable MUs against Ground & Fire, however the type is very limited and suffers from not having any Rapid Spin user. Feels underexplored but not that good.

Dragon is very weird to me, i feel like the type just need something a little bit extra to be good, obviously Hazards is a huge issue for the type as half your team will likely take 25% from rocks but also i feel like the type is just clicking buttons to break but somehow you're never able to have the last Pokemon alive. I don't know, i might be harsh on Dragon but every time i see it or build it i'm pretty disappointed in the end.

Ice is good against Ground & Flying and it pretty much stops there, i feel like you specifically use this type to snipe Ground and if you fail at it you get bad MUs against the rest, i'm convinced you can make Ice teams with a decent MU against Psychic but overall the type is weak.

Normal is another weird type, not having a good Rapid Spin user is pretty bad for a type that wants to use Flying-type to get a Fighting-neutrality, it doesn't feel particularly strong against anything but somehow it feels like stuff like Snorlax & Togekiss can pull up some shenanigans and win games, you might be able to cook stuff with this type but it shouldn't be great against many different types.

D Tier - Trash

Seeing Psychic & Fighting as my top 2 you would think i'd rank Ghost at least decently but no, i don't think this type has much to offer, preventing your hazards from being removed is a fun concept but the issue is, which hazards? The only Pokemon with Stealth Rock is Golurk and to be honest it doesn't look like it's clicking anything but Stealth Rock in a game due to how slow it is and it's walled by pretty common physical walls anyway, but a lot of types don't really care about Rocks, Fighting & Ground resist it, Water doesn't always have a spinner, so you might wanna get a Pokemon with Spikes too in Froslass. While Golurk is too slow to really do anything other than rock, Froslass is too frail and too weak to really do other stuff than setting up Spikes. Ghost also has absolutely zero way of taking advantage of its hazards, literally 0 Pokemon with Roar, Whirlwind or Dragon Tail, which is pretty disappointing, and Ghost itself suffers from hazards anyway due to not having a spinner and not really using anything that resists rocks. Ghost also lacks just solid Pokemons in my opinion, Jellicent is great as a special wall but it's not enough, and stuff like Sableye, Spiritomb or Cofagrigus are just so passive that it's hard to justify using them defensively, Ghost has some interesting options offensively like Gengar & Chandelure, maybe even Mismagius and could use some Trick Room techs but overall it's just not worth it and just feels underwhelming.

Grass is just a bad type defensively, too many weaknesses to cover and its offensive options are not that great, i'm sure it'll get a decent MU against Water & Ground and might get carried in some games by Ferrothorn but overall i don't feel like it's worth considering at all.

Rock just lacks Pokemons to make a full team, you can just look at the VR and see how we go from A Rank to D Rank instantly, that's because Rock just lacks Pokemons and it makes it a pretty bad type to use, even the 6 good Pokemons of the type are fine but it's nothing crazy like might as well use types with better Pokemons than this.

TLDR;
S

A

B

C (no order)

D (no order)

I might post again to talk about Pokemon Ranking rather than types, but i have to go so i'm posting this now, was fun writing it hope you enjoy my post

 

[PandaDoux]

Part 2 of my post, giving thoughts about Pokemons this time

Pokemons

A -> S Sableye feels mandatory to have room to play against Fighting-types of the tier, notably Keldeo that otherwise just spam Secret Sword and it's instant gg, it is the best immunity and much better than neutrality to fightings like Mandibuzz or Drapion that can't recover or take a lot on hazards. Prankster + Taunt & WoW also makes the Fighting MU go from a complete 0-100 to a like 10/20-90/80, which at least makes the game playable
B -> A Cacturne is a really good Pokemon to take advantage of the many defensive waters & grounds of the tier, mainly Starmie, Slowbro, Swampert, Hippowdon and Gastrodon, it is able to come, tank a hit and force them out with Giga Drain, you can sub on them and have the opportunity to make big holes against Water teams or against Psychic teams if the Steel-type has been weakened. Very good option to consider to handle Ground & Water MUs a little bit better, while still doing a good job against Psychic with Sucker Punch + Sub and Giga Drain to take advantage of defensive Starmie and Slowbro

A -> S Cobalion is key for Fighting teams, providing Stealth Rock and a Dragon-resist in the same slot, while, with the Shuca Berry, being able to check stuff like Landorus-T and Gliscor that would otherwise destroy Fighting teams.

B -> A Torkoal is a precious spinner for Fire teams, it does feel very nice to have a way of removing rocks even if Torkoal loses to most rockers, it's at least able to clean the field for its teammates that really appreciates it and it's able to win against Metagross, Celebi and Jirachi that are usually the rockers of Psychic-teams, which makes the Psychic MU way easier.

S -> A Dragonite doesn't feel mandatory at all, it is a strong option for Flying teams for sure but not every Flying teams wants a Dragonite, which i think it what makes it not a S ranked Pokemon, i feel like S ranked Pokemons are Pokemons that you need in 99.9% of teams in the type, but it's not the case of Dragonite, Salamence is a better option than Dragonite as a Dragon Scarfer for example due to Moxie and its higher Speed, and Flying has access to many other setups depending on what you want to beat with the team.

A -> S & I feel like it is very hard to justify Sandless Ground here, Excadrill is a really good Scarfer, provides a Dragon-resist can spin if needed, just a lot of defensive utility while still being a really strong offensive Pokemon with Sand Force, to which it needs to be paired with Hippowdon to be activated, and Hippowdon is a very good defensive wall, being able to check pretty much anything depending on if you make it full Def or full SpD and despite being quite passive it's not a setup fodder thanks to Whirlwind, and most importantly it makes the Fire MU a lot more easier to deal with since Hippowdon can easily stop Ninetales' Drought by coming on it for free
B -> A Nidoking is a really strong breaker, notably making the Steel MU pretty easy and helps dealing with Fighting by providing a way to threaten Breloom, a Bug-resistance to Heracross and obviously another Fighting-resistance. Toxic Spikes can also be extremely important as some teams can't afford to bring a Poison-type in every team, like Psychic or Water

S -> A Alakazam feels great but it's not what defines Psychic, a lot of Psychic teams drop Alakazam and work just as well as teams with Alakazam, it also doesn't have many opportunity to come in.
A -> S In my opinion Latias is the best Pokemon of the whole tier, checking Draco Meteor Scarf is a must for any team that wants to get a chance of winning against Psychic. Latias finds many opportunities to come in thanks to its Fire & Water resistances and its Ground immunity, which makes it resist the best 5 types of the whole tier. Healing Wish & Trick are insane support to the team as well. Choice Scarf provides so many utility, being able to act as an insane offensive presence, providing one the best Speed Control of the whole tier and giving so many defensive utility to the team is just unreal. On top of that Latias is able to run different sets like Calm Mind that completely runs over some teams on its own. Absolute beast, best Pokemon of the tier.
C -> B Choice Band Gallade is an insane breaker, being able to break teams very easily, notably Steel that usually has a good MU against Psychic, or even Fighting that is a top tier type. Its special bulk allows it to come multiple times on the field without much issues and Gallade has access to good coverage like X-Scissor for the mirror MU as well as a priority in Shadow Sneak.

S -> A Swampert is not the only good option as an Electric-immunity and can easily be replaced by Gastrodon, Seismitoad or Lanturn. It is the better of the 4 thanks to its access to Stealth Rock and its better stats but it is replaceable still.

 

[roxie]

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